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Carter says U.S. tortures prisoners - Interview

cnn.com — "Our country for the first time in my life time has abandoned the basic principle of human rights," Carter said. "We've said that the Geneva Conventions do not apply to those people in Abu Ghraib prison and Guantanamo, and we've said we can torture prisoners and deprive them of an accusation of a crime to which they are accused."

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kbedell 361 days ago

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WhiteRaven, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5Two things. First, the Geneva Convention does not apply because the Geneva Convention explicitly states that it's protections do not apply to illegal combatants. The main, real method of enforcement the GC has is that fact that if you do not abide by it, you are not protected by it.

The second thing is that water boarding, sleep deprivation and chilly rooms ARE NOT TORTURE. Quit watering down a term that should evoke genuine horror. This is little more than hazing. The US has not *harmed* any of these prisoners. There's no torture if there is no harm.

If these people were legal combatants... uniformed soldiers serving a country within a command structure... we would not be able to do *anything* to try to get them to talk. Can't limit rations or offer extra rations as reward. Can't allow them to be uncomfortable... nothing. But they aren't. Illegal combatants are intentionally left unprotected in order to encourage both national powers and the individuals that serve them to abide by the rules of war. The fact is, the Geneva Convention DOES permit torture and even summary execution. We aren't doing half the things that we are in fact entitled to do to these people.
- Xuvious, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Waterboarding is not torture?
  
  Are you ***** kidding!?!
  
  http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=78e_1179787722 (not for children or squeamish!!!)
  
  Your whole comment reeks of a bloodthirsty warmongering. It's sickening.
  - WhiteRaven, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4Water boarding is frightening and stressful. That's not torture. Torture causes *pain*. Please try to use words with a little sense. If you think water boarding is despicable and unacceptable, fine... that doesn't mean you call it torture. Words have meanings, please stick to them.
    - Xuvious, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Have you experienced waterboarding? I bet not... Watch the dang video and tell me again that there's no pain in it.
      
      And your crap about the Geneva Conventions...Our Constitution is ABOVE any treaty or convention.
      - WhiteRaven, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2There is no pain in it. I did watch the video. I saw no pain being inflicted.
        
        You need to be more literal in your use of words. Pain is pain, not fear and discomfort. Panic might share a lot of the same words as the word pain but it ain't the same thing.
      - Xuvious, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Torture is torture man. I know it when I see it.
      - Xuvious, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Then under your interpretation tasers are torture devices....which they are bw.
    - troprocker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Everyone who goes through SERE school experiences waterboarding. Or at least they did when I was in. You should stick to things you know at least a little bit about.
      - WhiteRaven, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2... well, what was I wrong about?
  - Kizilbash, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3'water boarding, sleep deprivation and chilly rooms ARE NOT TORTURE'
    Unless someone does it to your soldiers of course. The the whole world will have to hear about how they are being TORTURED.
  - WhiteRaven, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2You know, Xuvious, I was reading back through my post and I have a question for you. How is a discussion of what the Geneva convention actually does or does not do in any way bloodthirsty? I was simply stating fact. This is not a new interpretation invented by the Bush administration, it is the long-held standard. It was the *intent* of the document.
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Carter says U.S. tortures prisoners - Interview

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