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Apple's iPods take Top 5 Spots for MP3 Players on Amazon (8 in Top 10!)

amazon.com — How is Micosoft's Zune doing? It's hovering around #18 or #19. The List updates every hour -- this order is as of 2:55pm Sunday (Nov 26). It may be interesting to see what moves up and down the list as the shopping season progresses

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  • Ireland, on 10/12/2007, -25/+45I see the 'black' Zune is in 19" place, and the "brown' one is in 58th place. Definitely an iPod killer :P
    • devindotcom, on 10/12/2007, -12/+46It's trying to sneak up quietly.
    • flag564, on 10/12/2007, -61/+30Look guys, I know you are desperate to make the Zune out to be a failure as often as you can, even though it's not, but citing amazon.com sales charts is just becoming a old and lame talking point. since when does Amazon.com become a accurate stand-in for national sales figures?

      btw for something that you still say poses no threat to the ipod, nor is anyone buying, you seem to talk about it quite a lot.


    • jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -33/+11whole post marked as spam.

      and whilst we're at it, where's the microsoft digg category, or a category for any other manufacturer out there?
    • noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -18/+29Ah ha hah ha, flag, you douche, when did Amazon.com become accurate you ask?

      Man is there anywhere you won't go to try and diminish how well Apple is doing?

      It may be too early to call the Zune a failure but it certainly doesn't have it's sights set on number one.
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -9/+33How is bringing up sales rank invalid?

      I might point out that both Sandisk Sansa and Creative are well ahead of Zune in sales rank, so that means Microsoft's success is capped to somewhere below Creative. So it's a valuable comparative measure to say, where is Microsoft not just in relation to the iPod but the other players in the market segment it needs to win customers from (non-iPod MP3 players). It doesn't mean it's a failure, it just gives you an idea of where the Zune will fit in in terms of marketshare.

      It's also a useful indicator to see just how well brown sells in a consumer device, that was an interesting experiment that I didn't think would work out well, but objective numbers are much better to have instead of some people saying it looks ugly and others saying they liked it. Personally I didn't like the look of brown but then I always reserved judgement until I saw it in person... but then the problem you have is a lot of buyers are going to only ever see the online materials, and it seems the pictures there are not appealing enough to get them to buy brown over other colors.

      Just because you don't like the results doesn't mean it's not a valuable tool. I'm sure you''d be readily promoting the same data if Zune where in the top ten (as people were at launch).
    • zaqintosh, on 10/12/2007, -20/+14flag564, welcome to digg, where nothing that reaches the front page makes sense.

      I have seen on plenty of occasions where fascinating ground breaking articles get ignored on the "Upcoming Stories" page. But some 12 year old writes a blog counting the "10 reasons why I love my mac", and it amasses 900digs and becomes an internet sensation.

      Pretty frustrating isn't it?
    • jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9"objective numbers are much better to have instead of some people saying it looks ugly and others saying they liked it"

      objective isn't sales figures from one vendor, that just so happens to sell ipods at a really good price.
    • Quix, on 10/12/2007, -7/+21So much for "brown" being the new "white."

      "What can brown do for you?" Apparently not much.

      Despite flag564's frantic cheerleading and desperate prayers, people just aren't buying these things. There goes your sales commission, flag.
    • flag564, on 10/12/2007, -29/+8""objective numbers are much better to have instead of some people saying it looks ugly and others saying they liked it"

      objective isn't sales figures from one vendor, that just so happens to sell ipods at a really good price."

      It is if it advances a talking point. I think posting this every two days is more to just make them feel better.
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Sales figures from a place that shows you which consumers are buying White or Black Zune's instead of Brown is a useful and objective result.

      Ignore the iPod sales figures and simply compare Zune sales against each other to determine the popularly of a given color. Why is that invalid? If the sample rate were low I'd see where you could have quibbles, but being that high in the sales rank of Amazon means the sales figures are probably good enough to derive a comparative result.

      And I would argue that Amazon is in fact a large enough retailer to give you a pretty valid sample of how the rest of store sales are going - after all a lot of people are going into stores to try stuff out and then buying at Amazon. Why would someone do that for the iPod but not the Zune? Even if the Zune is not sold for as great of a discount as the iPod it's still generally cheaper to avoid sales tax.
    • Quix, on 10/12/2007, -8/+13"It may be too early to call the Zune a failure but it certainly doesn't have it's sights set on number one." - noahhoward

      Number one? Noah, didn't you get the Zune "fankids" (to use flag564's favorite term) memo? Microsoft DOESN'T CARE about being number one. They don't even care if they sell any Zunes at all! They just want to give the consumers a choice. Microsoft is all about making people happy, you know, not about making money or dominating markets by hook or by crook. Oh, and innovating. They're all about innovating.

      So even if (when) the Zune drops to dead last in the DAP market, it's still a smashing success! :|
    • noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Oh..... I see. It makes perfect sense, brown is the new white and loser is the new winner.

      Woo! Microsoft FTL!!!!!1one!
    • halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7@flag564

      So, flag564, how's that Zune review of yours coming along?

      You've already put enough time and effort into your Digg comments to have written an extensive and well researched review. Why don't you stop pissing and moaning about the reviews that are out there now and write one of your own.

      Show us all how it's done flag564. Write a Zune review that you consider to be honest and objective, including all of the Zune's good and bad points.
    • 23r17i05o42n, on 10/12/2007, -8/+4The Zune is as much fun as a kick in the crotch.
    • jonstewart24, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1I think M$ is gonna pull something good with the 2nd gen zune. First gen sucks but im thinking second gen is gonna be like a portable xbox w/ media player. my 2 cents....
  • aristotle0dude, on 10/12/2007, -24/+9I like my iPod just fine and my MBP but get a life CLIFFosakaJAPAN.
    • naio21, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2This ***** moron does nothing else than turning Digg into a fanboy riot. He should be reported and banned from the community.
    • rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I lost a lot of respect for CLIFFosakaJAPAN when I went back through the upcoming section and saw that he was posting dupes.
  • twid, on 10/12/2007, -25/+14in before flag564
  • g0tmk, on 10/12/2007, -8/+22What do you expect? the iPod dominates the market. duh.

    How exactly is this news?
    • AdrianRice, on 10/12/2007, -21/+27The real news here is not necessarily the iPod dominance, but the Zune's utterly abysmal failure to sell and where it leaves Microsoft. After screwing it's partners and it's obvious failure to penetrate the vertical model, it's left itself no come back to a key piece of the connected home market; music.
    • noodlez, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8if thats the news, then why isn't that mentioned in the title/summary?

      or am i just too dumb to know things good?
    • allenb, on 10/12/2007, -15/+2What's more, this is from Amazon, which naturally has a larger techno-savvy customer base than offline retailers.... if Amazon's customers aren't taking to it, you can be sure the figures are even worse elswhere.
    • brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -13/+4The more people buy iPods, the more Zune's market shrinks.
    • scottmoss, on 10/12/2007, -10/+13Zunes market share is not shrinking it is definitely growing.... Iriver, Creative, etc. are shrinking fast. The Zune is just not taking market share from Ipod....
    • flag564, on 10/12/2007, -28/+11"The real news here is not necessarily the iPod dominance, but the Zune's utterly abysmal failure "

      Based on less than a month on the market?

      I can assume that econ 101 was a class you utterly failed.....
      Oh i see, the talking point was that the Zune was to have 50% of the market in TWO WEEKS. If it did not, then the fankids will paint it as a failure. Only a retard would see logic in that.


      But then again since the fankids are pushing it, Im not susprised....
    • rhesuspieces00, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11yes, since the market share for the Zune up until a couple weeks ago was 0%, it can't really go down.
    • DollaDollaBill, on 10/12/2007, -11/+6it isn't news, its apple spam. Everyone on digg knows ipods dominate the market. if it were news about the zune it would be in the title.
    • noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9You know flag you can tell a lot about a product by how well it debuts. Like I said before, you won't know 100% if the Zune failed until a few years from now when you get to the point that MS expected to make money off of it but come on man, It's not like people didn't know it was coming. It's not going to suddenly sink in three weeks from now and people won't suddenly go "Oh ***** the Zune is out already, where was I?"

      This is showtime for the Zune, MS needed to either come strong or not bother. If you aren't doing well during Christmas and your competition is surpassing itself daily you aren't going to do well any time soon. That's economics 102 for you.
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4@scottmoss:

      If Creative's market share is shrinking, should Microsoft then be worried that the iRiver is well ahead of any Zune in the sales charts? The same goes for the Sandisk Sansa...
    • AdrianRice, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12@flag564

      "Based on less than a month in the market?"

      Based on the highest profile and most expensive pre-launch campaign to date which is unlikely to be surpassed by any other iPod competitor. Are trying to tell me that after that number #17 & #50ish ranked model in the retail market is not an overwhemling disappointing result considering the build-up (astroturfing)?
    • Greyarea, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3"Oh i see, the talking point was that the Zune was to have 50% of the market in TWO WEEKS. If it did not, then the fankids will paint it as a failure. Only a retard would see logic in that."

      And yet stories of Zune flying off the shelves seem to be strangely muted.
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Actually yes, a high percentage of market share (or at least continued presence in the top ten) would be expected after such an expensive marketing push.
    • cthellis, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3At least one would expect it to place higher than the other non-iPod products which have almost never had commercials or marketing push, and do not have a brand name on the scale of Microsoft's behind them.

      That the Zune at LAUNCH isn't selling better than them (yes, some of them are cheaper, but there are still two in the $150-200 range, and the Zen Vision: M is almost exactly the same type of machine)--to the tech-savvy sort who use Amazon for shopping--it's rather telling.
    • j_bellone, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5My brother picked a Zune up a week or so ago and has loved it since. I've messed around with it and honestly don't see any reason to go out and buy one since I have a 4G iPod (I also don't see a reason to go out and buy a new iPod for that very same reason). When my iPod dies though, which it will, because its been in the shop three times already I am going to be looking very hard at the Zune. The video is more crisp than the iPod, the controls are good, and the GUI is in my personal opinion cleaner and sleeker. The fact that it comes with an FM tuner (and not charging MORE for it) is a cherry on the cupcake for me.

      The only gripe is that it does not use Windows Media Player but instead uses a hacked up version of it. I'm no fan of iTunes (by far - I *hate* iTunes) but I'd rather not get sucked into another piece of ***** media software just because the company decided to tie in their player with it. All of my music is ripped from purchased CDs so hopefully someone will code up decent substitute. Besides that I have not found any faults with the Zune.

      If anything its going to make Apple work a little harder on their newest players instead of releasing a brighter screen and a ***** search feature that could have been pushed out across the whole line. The sharing feature is interesting and we have not been able to utilize it yet because nobody has a Zune. Everyone we've shown the unit to (instead of just talking about it) is saying that they want to go buy one. So that says something.
    • rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@j_bellone:

      "so hopefully someone will code up decent substitute"

      So basically what you are saying is that you'd buy Microsoft's hardware... so long as someone else wrote the software... hmm...
    • aaronm67, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@rickcarson

      I wouldn't blame him. I haven't used the Zune Software, but I have been looking into getting one recently, mainly because iTunes is such a crappy program (...it makes you install quicktime, it's a giant memory hog for just a media player, it's only available by a 60mb+ download, I can no longer restore my iPod myself because they tried to integrate this into iTunes and did a ***** job of it...I could go on...).

      Honestly, the only thing that keeps me from getting a Zune right now is the fact that I can't install the software without Windows updates, and I can't get Windows updates without a legal copy of Windows.
    • j_bellone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"So basically what you are saying is that you'd buy Microsoft's hardware... so long as someone else wrote the software... hmm..."

      No. What I am saying is that I would have rather Microsoft allowed the device to Syncronize with an updated version of Windows Media Player with some plugins instead of taking Windows Media Player forking it. You can try to spin it anyway you want. But that's what I meant.

      Once we actually showed someone the Zune (even the people that owned an iPod) were interested enough to play with it for a few minutes. Most of them were willing to admit that its better than their *own* iPod and were even considering changing players when theirs eventually dies.
  • thebiscuit, on 10/12/2007, -13/+5"65. Zune 30 GB Digital Media Player (Brown)
    by Zune
    Average Customer Review:
    In Stock
    Price: $249.99"

    LMFAO. The POS (literally, just look at at) is selling worse than last-gen iPods that they don't even sell any more!

    Oh yeah and:

    "75. Zune 30 GB Digital Media Player (White)
    by Zune
    Average Customer Review:
    In Stock
    Price: $249.99"
    • wyrdness, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12The white Toshiba Gigabeat is outselling the white Zune. I'm surprised by how well Sandisk are doing.
    • lunarworks, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11"65. Zune 30 GB Digital Media Player (Brown)
      by Zune
      ..."

      I love how Microsoft completely detaches itself from the Zune brand... that shows confidence in both the product AND its own self.
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Actually Sandisk has some pretty nice designers it seems - they also make a really nice CF card that is pretty cheap (if you trust microdrives!). The Sansa has had some good reviews.

      The weird thing about Microsoft's entry is that the Sansa and the like are in the sweet spot of the MP3 player market, where most of the sales go - Microsoft entered at a rougher portion of the curve.
  • halik, on 10/12/2007, -22/+8Why is this on the front page?
    • digga, on 10/12/2007, -8/+9Learn how digg works and/or shut up.
    • jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12because a majority of digg users wants to bum steve jobs.
  • GhengisKhan, on 10/12/2007, -8/+13After reading the Sun Times piece posted not too long ago, I'm not surprised to hear this. It's clear that Microsoft did not think this out well, by allowing the music companies to dictate the TOU.
    • stealthboy, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15> "allowing the music companies to dictate the TOU"

      Precisely. The focus of the ipod is the user experience. The focus of the Zune seems to be the desires of the music companies.
    • jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -10/+7"Precisely. The focus of the ipod is the user experience. The focus of the Zune seems to be the desires of the music companies."

      so why does the ipod continue to have one of, if not the worst audio playback quality, coupled with the least features, and highest price? These aren't things that are high on this user's list of great experiences.
    • tnwake, on 10/12/2007, -15/+6"so why does the ipod continue to have one of, if not the worst audio playback quality, coupled with the least features, and highest price? These aren't things that are high on this user's list of great experiences."

      I hate apple like most people with common sense do, but the main reason I do not own an ipod is precisely because of those problems. Call me crazy but I buy things based on value and features, not on how "cool" it is or how many of my friends have one. The ipod doesn't have the features or the value I'm looking for so I bought something that does.
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8"I hate apple like most people with common sense do"

      Ok then...

      The iPod has actually rather a lot more features than most players - at least useful ones. Not that many people want or need FM tuners for example, and those that ignore the large stock of great music they have on the player and want to listen to the same four songs on FM can always buy a FM remote/tuner for the iPod. You see, with the iPod you have the choice of never listening to radio again if you like instead of always carrying one with you.
    • ZekeSulastin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2With the iPod, you also get the option of paying more money for less space and codecs. Instant win!

      The only good thing about the iPod is the third-party market. So I pay a premium to be allowed to spend MORE money! BRILLIANT!

      YMMV - I don't buy music off of iTunes, so I have no music lock-in to worry about there, Obviously, if your collection is in a DRM'd format instead of FLAC, MP3, Vorbis et. al. your selection is a bit more limited.
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You pay more money for the option of expandability. People seem to think that's a good idea in other areas, such as buying a desktop over a laptop - so why is it not a good idea when talking about portable media players? It's a valid point to say that if you like the Zune cover you can get something very like it for the iPod - or a zillion other choices.

      I can also choose to pay for an FM receiver or not with the iPod, which I am more than happy to drop.
    • DelMonte, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1What I find incredibly funny (and scary at the same time) is how suddenly audio-recording is not mentioned anymore as a built-in feature that the iPod lack.

      And by some "odd" coincidence, this is since the Zune was announced without recording capabilities.

      Before, people were saying "Other players have FM and audio recording, unlike the iPod!". Now it seems that only the FM radio matters...
  • igyigyigy, on 10/12/2007, -12/+8Maybe people are buying plenty of them, but not online / on amazon?

    Is the target market for the Zune the same people that use amazon regularly?
    • rhesuspieces00, on 10/12/2007, -8/+7what, you mean the general public?

      apparently not.

      I bet Zunes are alll the rage in, you know, Botswana.
    • flag564, on 10/12/2007, -20/+5"Maybe people are buying plenty of them, but not online / on amazon?"

      Makes too much sense. But the point of constantly pointing to this popularity chart on Amazon is to try to push the line that no one is buying one. Its total rubbish, but these guys desperately want to instill that notion in people's heads.

      Obviously posting the same talking point as a Digg article shows that they are not having much luck.
    • jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -12/+6unfortunately, the average mac zealot prefers to hit their head against a brick wall time and time again than to accept that there may be some competition to their beloved apple products.
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I was just in Botswana two months ago and can verify the desire for Zunes there is rather low. Also Zimbabwe.
    • MacParrot, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2superkendall,
      How'd you like Botswana? I was there in the eighties and it was one of the better southern African countries that I went to. Zimbabwe was in the process of self-destruction (still is). I had probably US $200 worth of Z-Dollars when I flew into joberg and surprise surprise, they wouldn't exchange them for Rands. Took me the better part of two years to sell them off to people who collect currency.

      Back on topic.

      While Amazon isn't the end-all, be-all for guaging sales, it is one of the biggest online retailers for electronics. I wouldn't judge the sales of Zunes based solely of Amazon figures, but it's probably a good quick count of what's selling and what's not. Even at 18 or 58th place, SOMEONE is buying these things. I wouldn't, but someone is.
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Botswana was great, I wasn't really in the larger towns at all (on Safari) but the people were all great. It's a little weird being on safari since they are mostly kind of old-school British service kind of arrangements, which feels uncomfortable if you are not used to having people around that act more like old-school british "servants" than most places (they are of course just normal employees, it's more how they act around you). As a country, Bostwana is really thriving having a good government making good choices.

      You are right about Zimbabwe, I was in Victoria Falls which is the only area of that country I would go to right now. It's a larger town than you would think (around 40k people) but there's really a lot of evident poverty - you may have read about all the things the government was doing which sound pretty bad (tearing down houses and telling people to go elsewhere, that just stay in the husk of the house). At first I wasn't sure about going there but we wanted to spread some money around to the people that are stuck in the middle of things there. Another surprising thing (which in retrospect is pretty obvious) is how poor the internet connections are there - I had thought I might be able to get something at a hotel but the best connection I ever found was a non-shared modem line at a library. They had internet cafes but none would let you hook up your own laptop, and from the speed they had about 12 terminals sharing a SINGLE modem line! I am not kidding. Botswana also did not really have widespread internet connectivity, from talking to the owner of the safari company the only high-speed option there for people right now is still satellite internet.

      Also technically you are not allowed to remove Z-dollars from the country (it's illegal). Happily they tak US dollars pretty much without exception through all of Africa (or at least Joberg, Botswana, and Zimbabwe...). Humorously at the Joberg airport the vendors would take U.S. Dollars and Rand, but not the British pound!

      That was mighty off topic, good thing modding here doens't work like Slashdot...
  • BrandonMills, on 10/12/2007, -12/+11This weeks edition of Diggnation is brought to you by the Microsoft Zune!

    An utter failure, but lets see if Kevin and Alex have the guts to say it on-air now that they're the new sponsor. I mean, the Zunes 'killer feature' is pointless, as all of your friends have iPods, not Zunes. Not to mention the decreased battery life over an iPod video.

    I have FAITH in you guys! Do the right thing :) Don't give in!
    • jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6> "I mean, the Zunes 'killer feature' is pointless, as all of your friends have iPods"

      that point is like saying.. "why should i vote? i wont change who gets elected".

      unlike the zune, the ipod has no feature that gets better the more people that you know has one. infact, the opposite is true - you look like a brainless sheep wearing your easily identifiable white ipod headphones.
      on a site like digg, which is driven by the social group, you'd think you lot would get the idea of sharing music, with friends, on a jukebox player, and i'm sure you would all be dancing up and down like maniac clowns if apple had thought of it first. But, your wilted hearts are only seeing the manufacturer's logo, not the device, or the functionality it gives you.
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10The Zune doesn't have any feature that gets better the more people you know have them either... I don't want or need a song I can only listen to thrice. I'd rather just copy the song right off a friends iPod because, you know, I can mount it as external storage and simply copy it off using any number of easily found tools to decypher the song names... Or I can get the name of a band from a friend via email and just check them out that way. I don't need to enable a feature that cuts down my battery life by an hour in the faint hope that someone in the same zipcode owns a Zune...
    • kimhill, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7jrbrewin said: "...you look like a brainless sheep wearing your easily identifiable white ipod headphones."

      Seems to me that people who complain that lots of other people have white earbuds -- and then decide what's good or bad on that basis -- are the "brainless sheep."
    • MacParrot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Right, brainless sheep for choosing an MP3 player that just works. What does that say about the 95% of people that use Windows?
    • j_bellone, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3My iPod just worked all the way to the shop three times. I'm waiting for the fourth time so I get a refund. How about actually going and using a Zune before bitching about it? It works perfectly fine and the software has the same amount of flaws as iTunes has (probably less). If you're running OSX then you aren't going to be able to use the player. Sure, that's a flaw, but you weren't going to buy it anyway, so why bitch?

      Answer: Because you can.
    • n00bst3r, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I hope Apple implements the same wireless sharing as MS did. I can't wait to see what the fan boys say then.
  • kaniz, on 10/12/2007, -16/+9Why does each color variation count as a new product?
    Meh, either way - the zune sucks.

    iPod - designed with the users in mind
    Zune - designed with big business in mind

    I wonder who will win.....
    • brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -12/+6So you're saying the Zune is like the republican party?
  • ahhell, on 10/12/2007, -17/+6Pink nano is #5??

    I smell *****.
    • stealthboy, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15Yeah, there's no way that women might want to buy the pink iPod....
    • jeriqo, on 10/12/2007, -11/+2You smell *****.
    • rhesuspieces00, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3its on your upper lip.
    • flag564, on 10/12/2007, -11/+5One pink Zune is selling for over 300.00 on Ebay right now with several days left.
  • dethsesh, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5anyone think that this is because amazon's ipods are much cheaper than anywhere else. its the place to buy ipods from.
  • rhesuspieces00, on 10/12/2007, -10/+22the zune is losing (badly) to DISCONTINUED iPods.

    • collywolly, on 10/12/2007, -10/+2Only looser fanboys consider this a competition.
  • sunimoto, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10iPod has been available for years and established itself on the market pretty well. There are also a lot of different models to choose from (I don't mean different colors). Zune has came out only couple of weeks ago and has only one model. How can you compare iPod and Zune? #18 is not bad for a new product that everyone seems to hate.
    I played with Zune and cannot say it is terrible. It has some nice things, like a much larger screen and radio which some people really missed in iPods.
    Having Microsoft compete with Apple in this market is great for consumers. We could finally see some innovative products...
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8The problem Microsoft has is that we have seen a lot of innovation in the market - by Creative and Sandisk, trying hard to keep Apple at bay. So the Zune faces not just iPods but other players in the same market offering most of the same advances - no-one else has wireless, but until Microsoft de-cripples the Zune wireless neither do they really.

      Consider the Sandisk Sansa for instance, they have agreements with both RealPlayer and BestBuy to promote the Sansa. That's an uphill battle for Microsof tright there when anyone not looking at iPods is going to see the Sansa promoted at Best Buy over the Zune.

      Also the Zune simply needs better marketing, I think a lot of the current sales rank is speaking more to marketing than the features of the player. People need to know it exists to go looking to buy one, and the Zune ads are just too cryptic.
    • noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6" How can you compare iPod and Zune?"

      Microsoft dearly hopes you compare the two, that is why they went to such great lengths to emulate it visually, right down to the packaging (if you don't believe me, you've never seen the two). Unfortunately, while that is a good business strategy, it only works when you do it at the right time... not 5-6 years late. Had the Zune came out around the time the iPod craze came out, MS could have beaten it down with pricing and a broader base of support, having the Zune look and feel like the iPod would have helped it.
    • DelMonte, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"much larger screen"

      If you can say that the screen is "much larger", then you'll have to say that the Zune itself is also much larger too (in volume).
  • tnwake, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4So after being on the market 2 weeks you've taken a sample from 1 retailer and declared the Zune a failure? How much of the market do you think the ipod had 2 weeks after it came out?!
    • flag564, on 10/12/2007, -14/+2Take the share of Apple users, since the 1G ipod could only run on macs. Subtract 55% of that for people who had no need for an mp3 player and divide by two for early adopters.

      You get about 1 or 2% of the mp3 player market at that time.

      Total failure, right?
    • jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8actually, i had a 1st gen ipod, and used it on a pc. It wasn't exclusive to mac, just it wasn't 'supported'. :-)
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Actually the iPod had really good sales right out of the gate, since it was offering a number of features other players didn't have - the iPod didn't actually take away that much market share from other players like Creative, it simply grew the market outward by offering devices the average person could use.

      The Zune started out with a good sales rank at Amazon, but has been trailing off instead of growing - which means worth of mouth is not helping it.
  • narduk, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5It has been this way for over a year. News? Not to me.
    • noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6The 'iPod killer' Zune hasn't been out for over a year so, news? Yes, very much so.
    • narduk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is the title of the story, "Apple's iPods take Top 5 Spots for MP3 Players on Amazon (8 in Top 10!)"

      Not news.
  • reighvin, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8You have to remember that Microsoft entered this market the same way they entered the video game system market. Treating it as a marathon, not a sprint. They know they can't just overtake Apple. The built in base is too large for them to overtake immediately. However, as long as Microsoft is willing to lose money, which they have proven they are, they can slowly take the fight to Apple and the Ipod.
    • sabarsky, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Unlike the console market however, product cycles are much shorter in the digital music player business. They won't have the luxury of a 4 year lapse to introduce the latest and greatest. And you just know Apple isn't resting on their laurels. They're releasing iPods every year and in various forms. Not to mention all the other mp3 player manufacturers out there competing in the same space.
    • allenb, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8But that comparison is flawed, reighvin.

      Every new console generation represents, essentially, a fresh start. Backwards compatibility with old games is important to some (like PlayStation games playing on PS2), but nowhere near as important as compelling new games for the new generation of consoles.

      Someone may have bought a PlayStation one generation, followed by an Xbox the next, followed by a Nintendo Wii this - and base all of those decisions on the relative merits of each console, without the burden of backwards compatibility.

      Zune needs to be compelling to iPod owners, like the Xbox 360 was compelling to PS2 owners. But that's easier said than done...

      Games advance a lot between generations, but digital music won't advance much. The bitrate is likely to improve, but few people beyond audiophiles will notice or care. Therefore, it's harder to give people a compelling reason to switch from one digital music service to another.

      Also, a lot of people invest a lot of time in getting their iTunes collections where they want them - and anyone who has bought a large number of songs from the iTunes store won't be keen on changing to a Zune in a hurry, unless they are willing to break the encryption or shell out for new songs with the Zune's DRM.

      So it's easier to switch consoles from one manufacturer to the next than it is to switch from one DRM-encumbered digital music player to another.... Microsoft has a much tougher fight on its hands this time.
  • blakyce, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9It is way to early to call the Zune a failure. Personally I hope that it does well and adds some real compettition to the marketplace.
  • leonbev, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9I'll bet that a lot of kids will end up getting a Zune for Christmas this year when the local brick and mortar stores sell out of iPods. Never underestimate the purchasing power of gullible consumers and effectiveness of greedy commissioned salespeople.

    I kinda feel sorry for those kids, but I guess that someone needs to be willing to debug this first generation Microsoft product.
  • turbodigg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Dude, even the creative zen m is above the zune, and I never see anyone with those!
  • flink405, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2On Germany Amazon the top 5 for MP3 players are:
    1. Creative MuVo V 100 1 GB
    2. Apple iPod nano 8 GB
    3. Apple iPod nano 2 GB Silver
    4.Support Plus MP3 Player Bentley 512 MB black
    5. Maxfield G-Flash Deluxe MP3-Player 512 MB

    Other interesting Amazon.com sales highlights:
    #3 on the sex and sensuality ranking:
    Sue Johanson Royal Princess G Stimulator, Bubblegum
    #5 is Sue Johanson Royal Surfer Clitoral Stimulator.
    (Tip: Buy stock in Sue Johanson products!)

    #1 in the Candy dept: Haribo Gummi Candy, Gold-Bears, 5-Pound Bag
    #1 in the Cookie dept: Pamela's Products Organic Dark Chocolate Chocolate Chunk

    Ahhh, yes, meaningless sales rankings that mean nothing. If only they would put a quantity behind those rankings. Maybe that iPod is number one in sales at the moment....but they have only sold 10 of them....
  • lokiworks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Arguing about which device is leading the charts? Times have changed. In my day we used to argue about music. :)
  • collywolly, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2Hey how about we compare two other products from these companies, computers!

    MS has around 95% of the market Apple has very little. Apple is a faillure. Yay!

    See how rediculous you fanboys look.......
  • mgkwho, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1MS has around 95% degrowth and Apple has very much growth. MS is a failure. Yay!

    See how rediculous you MS defenders look......

    -=|Mgkwho
    • collywolly, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2Ha ha.....
      You even think I am defending MS. I am just pointing out what a bunch of loosers you Apple fanboys are. I don't use Windows on any of my home machines.
    • mark1372, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Why can't anyone on Digg spell "ridiculous?" Is it the new "teh?"
    • Quix, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3"I am just pointing out what a bunch of loosers you Apple fanboys are." - collywolly

      Apple fanboys can spell.

      Loser.
  • ajck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Zune is typical of the utter, utter ***** from Microsoft we've all come to know and hate, so what do you expect? They're idiots and crooks, pure and simple.

    XBox 360 should be spun off to a separate company, as that and the marketing dept. are the only good things MS have going for them.
  • theda3g0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4In reference to the Zune comment, it's an unfair comparison. (not that I'm supporting the Zune... I have no intention of ever buying one.) Apple has many more versions of not only their flash based players, but also their hard-drive based players.

    Click on the "Hard Drive-Based" link in the menu on the left and you get a better idea of where the Zune really sits in comparison to other like models.

    Comparing flash based players and hard-drive based players is apples and oranges.
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4That is true that it's better to look at HD players specifically to see better where the Zune falls...

      What that says right now is that all the current iPod HD units are outselling the Zune except for the white 80 GB iPod (black is more popular there it would seem). Also in that list the black Zune is ahead of the Creative Zen Vision.

      Still, I'm not sure it's fair to ignore the smaller flash segment as that's where the bulk of sales are, and most figures reported in the news will be MP3 players, not as specific to just HD based players.
    • cthellis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@superkendall

      *** Also in that list the black Zune is ahead of the Creative Zen Vision. ***

      Behind. The black Zune is currently in 17th, and the Creative Zen Vision: M is in 12th. (Just beating out the 30GB white iPod.)

      Sadder news for the 60GB Toshiba Gigabeat, which is behind even the now-out-of-date video iPods.
  • bluestream, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1As the saying goes, it is going to take three tries for Microsoft to get Zune right :-) iPod is going to rule until then.
  • naio21, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4If we block an user we also get rid of any submissions he makes? I really want to block this flamebait-poster, misleading-digger, apple-*****-fanboy, FUD-spreader son-of-a-bitch CLIFFosakaJAPAN. But I'd like NOT to see the crap he submits either.
    • noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I was wondering where you were Naio, Flag's Anti-Apple FUD-fest just lacks some oomph without you.
  • Dark_Ice, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Am I'm the only one who's less concerned with the Zune and instead wonders what the hell a Creative product is doing in that list?
    • ZekeSulastin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Because Creative players generally have a good deal more features in terms of addons and codecs than the iPod does, the particular one you're looking at (likely the Vision:M) consistently had great reviews, and it costs less than the equivalent iPod?
  • Darcy, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4I can smell desperate apple fans, "The Zunes a failure, honest", "Please don't buy a Zune, they suck because they're made by evil M$, buy an ipod instead they are vastly superior in every way".

    Most new Microsoft products have a huge FUD campaign going against them early on, it just shows how worried the fans of the competing product are. The ipod is the only real success apple have had for years, so it's only natural that Apple fans feel a desperate need to do whatever it takes to protect their little ipod. It would be great for the Apple fans to be able to say they have beat M$ at something for the first time in their history.


    • adragons, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Yes. Most apple fan boys/girls have already decided that the ipod is superior to the zune.
      Personally, I don't give a ***** about who does better or worse, but the flag564 guy is right on some major points that everyone diggs him down for.

      1. Amazon does not count for all sales.
      2. The zune is new. (Give it time before you condemn it)
    • flag564, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3"I can smell desperate apple fans, "The Zunes a failure, honest", "Please don't buy a Zune, they suck because they're made by evil M$, buy an ipod instead they are vastly superior in every way".

      Most new Microsoft products have a huge FUD campaign going against them early on, it just shows how worried the fans of the competing product are. The ipod is the only real success apple have had for years, so it's only natural that Apple fans feel a desperate need to do whatever it takes to protect their little ipod. It would be great for the Apple fans to be able to say they have beat M$ at something for the first time in their history."

      You guys nailed it. No other device in recent history has had such a sustained effort on the part of the leading competition to try to ruin it.

      That does not happen to a device that is as horrible as these guys wish people to believe.
      It happens to one that they are vastly afraid is going to do well.

      Each time these guys post an submission like this, they think they are hurting the Zune. what they are doing is keeping it in the forefront. Keeping the device in front of people and making themselves look petty in the process. People are catching on more and more to what they are trying to pull, and the Zune gets tons more publicity.
    • noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Flag how is it in that little world of yours? It's cold here in real-land, hopefully you're at least getting good weather.

      Maybe some of you haven't realised but there haven't been many positive reviews of the Zune from the major tech groups yet. All of us 'fearful Apple fanboys' would have a hard time swaying the minds of some of the leading tech editors.

      And, adragons, while 'FUD-boy Flag' is right on the points you listed, he is still only half right.

      1.) Amazon does not count for all sales.
      Of course not, that would be silly. When you do a survey though, you don't ask every single person on earth what they look at. You look at a large portion of your valid audience. Amazon represents a large portion of tech-aware shoppers.

      2.) The Zune is new.
      Yeah... and it is doing horribly. For many of the valid points brought up before, a bad launch is not a good sign.
  • eventualbuddha, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Apple has 15 of the top 25 players.
  • n00bst3r, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2It's good to know that at least one of Apple's divisions can hold good market share, since 4% in the computer market just doesn't cut it.
    • noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Nope, 4% doesn't cut it, but ease of use does it for lots of people. Keeping my family's MS machines up to date is annoying as hell, tons of extra step that don't need to be there.
    • n00bst3r, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1I forgot, Apple never releases security updates.
  • molecool, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Poor Archos 604 is on number 52 - then again, it's not really just an 'mp3' player - it's more of a PMP. Do they have a 'PMP list' as well?
  • ArnoldTPants, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Wow, the fanboys are really afraid that the Zune will do well and are going all out to convice everyone it sucks. What pathetic, desperate fanboys. Why do you care if someone else buys a Zune?
    • ElumEnopee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Just like the Republicans a few weeks ago. The difference is this time the Ipod will still be on top. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is a simply matter of opinion.
  • n00bst3r, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I can remember the first generation of iPod having a hard time competing with the likes of the Creative Nomad Jukebox:

    http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/creative/jukebox-3/jukebox3.jpg

    First Gen iPod (is it really that sexy?)
    http://www.nycipoddoctor.com/images/1st%20&%202nd%20gen.jpg

    The iPod never really caught on until the third generation. Thats then they reached critical mass and it became "chic" and everyone in HS had to have one to be cool. All fashion trends die at some point, and I think alot of people are getting tired of the iPod is chic thing. Hopefully in a couple of generations Microsoft will have a device that is so much better than the stagnant iPod, that even raving fanboys can't waive people's interests.
  • BrianS, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Of course you could always ask someone who actually bought a zune.
    Here is a zune review fomr Amazon. (he sent it back and got an iPod)
    ________________________________________________
    I really wanted to like this!, November 17, 2006
    Reviewer: M. Sullivan (Richmond, VA United States) - See all my reviews
    I got my Zune two days ago and exchanged it for a black 5.5 gen iPod today (I had sold my white 5 gen iPod to buy the Zune).

    I was really excited about the Zune, and really wanted to enjoy it. I was looking forward to the large screen, and connecting it up to my 360. But alas, it was not meant to be. The device itself is great, I loved the design, it felt great in my hand (despite being a bit thicker than I would have liked), the screen is beautiful, and the menu system seemed very easy to use. The software loaded fine on my computer, but when I connected my Zune, that's where things went shady.

    I disconnected and reconnected my Zune many many times, and got varying results (but never the desired ones). Sometimes niether the Zune nor the software would do anything...sometimes the Zune would start charging, but nothing else...sometimes the the Zune would say "Connected" but nothing would happen on the software side. Once (once!), it actually worked...the Zune said "Connected" and the device showed up in the software and started to update the Zune firmware...then it froze. I even tried removing the software a few times and reinstalling it, to no avail.

    I wasted six hours over two evenings trying to get this thing to work, and I had enough. At least I got a new iPod out of the ordeal.

    My advice:
    - If you own an iPod, keep it! Maybe upgrade to the 6 gen when they come out, as they'll likely feature the few things about the Zune that make it appealing.
    - If you're looking for your first media player, consider the iPod or Creative Zen before even thinking about the Zune.
    • n00bst3r, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm glad I don't have those problems.
  • jbelkin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1MS's main problem with the Zune is that instead of helping to build the WMA market, they splintered it further especially now that SAnDisk is creating a Real DRM music format so while mp3 has won the hearts & minds of conusmers (smart move emusic), the rest of the online store purchase choices are AAC, WMA, WMA Zune & Real/SanDisk. Instead of trying to build a viable hardware, software & store to compete with Apple, all MS did was say, we're taking the ball and going home so now instead of Apple vs MS, it's really MS vs WMA vs Real/SAnDisk further confusing the consumer who will actually just throw up their hands and go buy an ipod.

    Even if you discount the fact MS is losing money on every XBox, at least the XBox has an advantage over a gaming PC - it's way cheaper, less OS issues and had Halo - what does the Zune have? Nothing. It's heavier, as expensive, more complicated to setup, more complicated to buy tracks (plus a lot less non music selection) plus a host of other issues - it's not really clear to most consumers (versus Xbox & gaming PC) why they should buy one. When I was just on Amazon, the Zune was at 48 behind such exciting things such as a camera case.

    The difference between 48 and 15 probably isn't more than a couple hundred units but it's still telling.

    I wonder what the return rate will be on 12/26 ...
  • ElumEnopee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I'm sure I'll get dugg down but I can remember back in 2001, the 1G iPods weren't exactly flying off the shelves, either. The mechanical scroll wheel was temperamental, the battery was prone to failure (eventually resulting in lawsuits - a flaw not fixed until 3G units), no shuffle songs option, it cost $400, initial capacity was 10GB (later 20GB), no remote, only one game (breakout). Initial sales were greater in Europe than the US, which combined resulted in about 125,000 units sold that first year. Also, the ipod would not be what it is today if not for the addition of PC support (Apple realized early on that making it a mac only device was a mistake). And don't forget about the lawsuit from Apple Corps (the Beatles) which had the potential of keeping Apple Computer out of the "music" business.
    It seems easy to forget those early days seeing as how the iPod is now the dominate player on the market. My 4G unit is still going strong. I kind out wish it would fail so I get get a new one. In the end though, seeing as how the Zune is several generations behind the ipod in terms of market penetration, it has got a long way to go before it can even get close to the iPods numbers. Only time will tell, i guess.

  • mdollarsign, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1More anti-microsoft BS. Nothing to see here.
  • geekee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Just looking at the pictures makes the Zune seem like a better device for video. The screen is a lot bigger than the the iPod's screen. Market momentum is the only thing keeping Apple on top until they can release a real video iPod.
    • BrianS, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1geekee ".....makes the Zune seem like a better device for video"

      you seem to have missed one small point....the zune doesn't do video.
    • DelMonte, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"The screen is a lot bigger than the the iPod's screen."

      It's .5 inch bigger and at the same resolution as the iPod, 320x240... big deal...

      You can't be serious... half an inch bigger! The difference is so minimal that just holding an iPod two inches closer to your face will compensate. (OMG! two inches closer, I'll look like a goon!)

      The Zune is much bigger in volume, and it makes a real difference, holding it farther from your face won't make it less bulky.
  • ElumEnopee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Whatever your opinion in regards to the ipod/zune war, you've got to admit no other competing product to the iPod has generated as much "buzz" as the Zune. Have there been dozens (in not hundreds) of stories on digg.com alone for a Creative or Philips, or SanDisk player? No? Then why not? Those companies make players that do the same thing as the iPod and the Zune. What is it about the Zune that has ruffled so may feathers?
    Some might look at it as 'Podders panicking at the prospect of losing to m$, while others may look at it as a 'Zuners wanting a similar but different product competing for a small piece of the pie.
    Like all wars, this one needs a catchy name; Operation "Get a Life, its just a freakin' media player" perhaps.
  • ElumEnopee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0What does that say about apple? They flood the market with 25 different versions of basically the same player in order to appeal to as many people as possible. You don't want white, the get the black. You don't want a hard drive, then get the flash version. Some people will look at that very aspect and say it give them a choice. but many products have met their demise due to over saturation (remember Members Only jackets, and parachute pants -- unless you lived during the 80's maybe not). That is not likely to happen here with the iPod, but when will it end. Maybe they can put a Hello Kitty iPod for little girls and a Pokemon iPod for the boys. Apple doesn't care about being a trendy fashion statement anymore, they want to sell as many ipods as they can while they can. They call that a "cash cow" and its every corporations fear that someday that cow may dry up. Apple without the iPod is just another computer maker with limited market share.
    Right now, iPod still has a certain "it" factor going for it, but its running the risk of losing its "hip fashion statement" factor and becoming "just another one of those media players".
    • DelMonte, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Oh so suddenly choice is not good anymore? You'd rather be limited to a single 30Gb HDD bulky model in 3 drab colors?
  • ElumEnopee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0CRAP. the above comment was supposed to be a reply to a comment made earlier.

    "Apple has 15 of the top 25 players." by eventualbuddha
    • DelMonte, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Adding the context doesn't make your reply more valuable... If we add the 15 iPod models sales numbers, that will sure make a very big number compared to the Zune, I guess you'd want to hide this fact by putting Zune at number 2 or 3 behind all iPods combined at number 1 even though the Zune would have 30 times less the sales share?
  • healmachine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0yes i believe we need to give some more time
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