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Ebay Sellers' Boycott gains traction; competing sites grow

businessshrink.biz — On February 20th, 2008 eBay will roll out unprecedented changes to their auction format. eBay will be ending seller's abilities to leave negative feedback for buyers, opening the possibility for blackmail. Other changes to fees have also ruffled feathers, with sellers saying they will end up paying more. Sellers are boycotting Feb. 18th - Feb. 25th

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  • medalian1, on 02/20/2008, -39/+170That's when I'm going to list all of my stuff on eBay! (cause everyone else will not be selling during that time, muahahaha)
    • charliecharlos, on 02/20/2008, -42/+8...that's very douche-y of you. Don't most people on digg stick together to stick it to corporations, or is that only for Co$?
      • schuder, on 02/20/2008, -3/+11Ebay is legitimate in this, I've been blackmailed by sellers after I left negative feedback (once out of over 200 transactions) and the seller freaked (even though I had emailed her multiple times requesting a refund or a new item) and the feedback I got said "Tried to buy panties with poo in them" I ***** you not.
        • funkytaco, on 02/20/2008, -0/+7Is she crying because you did or didn't poo in them?
      • OwdenBowden, on 02/20/2008, -3/+1Like it or not Dr Evil is right. If no one is selling but you then you will. You might want to employee Luck Charms to make sure all goes well.
    • CharlesSaint, on 02/20/2008, -24/+20It's not like there's some e-bay sellers union that has to abide by union regulations. If those babies want to cry and protest they're welcome to do so, but don't expect the void not to be filled, especially with the convenience of an online business.
      • SiliconRain, on 02/20/2008, -6/+31I think you're spot on, Charles. Lots of EBay sellers have been taking the piss in recent years with selling poorly described cheap, half-broken crap but knowing they're almost certainly immune from negative feedback because they have the power of retaliation. Just consider the fact that you rarely see a seller with below 99.7% positive feedback - and lower than that and you get suspicious. What the ***** is that about? When everyone is over 99% positive, you know your feedback system is broken.

        Buyers always deserve more protection - finally EBay is recognizing this.
        • SabrinaHeaven, on 02/20/2008, -6/+13Selling half-broken crap is supposed to be against the TOS anyway. The problem isn't feedback abuse, it's eBay's failure to handle complaints.
        • netwalker11, on 02/20/2008, -2/+1RIGHT ON!
        • an0nym0uz, on 02/20/2008, -2/+2This doesn't really protect the buyers, all it really does is just ***** the sellers because now they can't ***** you with neg feedback, they can however, still give ***** descriptions and sell you crappy items, and you probably can't do ***** about even after these changes
    • DesignEx, on 02/20/2008, -12/+3So that means that you're selling all your stuff now then [citation needed]
    • davidrools, on 02/20/2008, -10/+52scab
    • HisNameIsChris, on 02/20/2008, -13/+8It's not like the sellers don't have enough power as it is. If a buyer buys something and the seller gives them something different to what they asked for, unless the buyer has bought like more than the seller has sold with positive feedback eBay will take the side of the seller in most cases. I've been screwed 10 times out of the 16 items I've bought. Each time the seller said they 'offered me a refund/replacement' (*****), each time ebay believes them. I never ended up getting my money/the right item.

      I might come back to eBay if these changes go through. True, the sellers need a bit more power than this, but before they had too much power.
      • haydesigner, on 02/20/2008, -4/+11@HisNameIsChris: "I've been screwed 10 times out of the 16 items I've bought."

        So who is the idiot there?
        Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me TEN TIMES, however...
        • winmywii, on 02/20/2008, -1/+26You got it all wrong. It goes like this: "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."
      • halleyscomet, on 02/20/2008, -0/+8You must be really bad at identifying dodgy auctions. I've bout a lot of items on Ebay and never had ANY problems. What have you been trying to buy anyway???
        • WriterSD, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2Ditto. And if you buy through PayPal and there's a problem, it's easy to get your money back, even if the seller refuses to refund you.
      • computergod, on 02/20/2008, -1/+2Idiot, learn to check out your seller before buying.

        ebaynegs.com is a good place to start.
        • thecrazyd, on 02/20/2008, -1/+5Well, it's not like he can check feedback to see if it is a quality seller. Due to feedback retaliation, most buyers are scared to leave negative feedback currently.
      • twollamalove, on 02/20/2008, -1/+3I'm not going to call you an idiot. I will admit you are doing something wrong. However, ebay is pretty much *****, and taking away sellers ability to leave feedback will help not hurt. The sellers DO as you say have too much power.
      • Pyehole, on 02/20/2008, -2/+4I've been buying and selling on ebay for 9 years and the only real problem I've ever had is a buyer claimed he never received my package and tried to get money back through Paypal. Fortunately I had sent it via UPS and had a tracking number to show it was delivered. Now ebay wants to take away my ability to leave negative feedback for these kind of buyers? I don't think so. I'm done with ebay.
        • WriterSD, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1That's the only problem I had on eBay too.
    • sleepwalkers, on 02/20/2008, -0/+19Anyone wonder why it's only a week-long boycott?
    • L0g1X, on 02/20/2008, -2/+5Actually the new algorithm favors old-time sellers with high amounts of feedback. Your items will be listed below those sellers. That means, you probably had a better chance selling before ebay made the changes.
      • aetherboy, on 02/20/2008, -0/+0Any feel for how this affects eBay affiliates on Commission Junction? Will we get a cut of the higher fees? Sounds like this might lower the number of overall auctions though :(

        Also, anybody else experience weird commissions lately? I sold a $200+ item and got a $.01 commission. WTF?!
    • an0nym0uz, on 02/20/2008, -0/+15you won't make any money anyways cause ebays fees are so ***** high now
    • BeefyCow2001, on 02/20/2008, -2/+9"Instead of office chair, Package contained bobcat. Would not buy again."
      Ah, xkcd how I love thee.
      http://xkcd.com/325/
    • Lhuth, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Welcome to Digg. Home of the people with no sense of humour at all.
      Lighten up a bit.
    • digitallysick, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2And let paypal keep your money for 21 days when the buyer doesn't leave feedback? yeah sure, go ahead....
    • Taffe3000, on 03/08/2008, -0/+0
      Very nice of eBay to have this policy, now when I buy anything on eBay going to just leave a negative feedback because I don’t like how the seller package the item or the item didnt received in the expected time frame.

      I dont think this new policy will work, what do you think of the new feedback policy?

      They also decrease the listing fee but increase the final value fee by 60%, very nice, its like giving a person a glass of milk then kick it over.


      eBay is a sinking ship, find other alternative before its too late…check the link below
      http://realbigsource.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f= ...
  • joshuatree7, on 02/20/2008, -7/+63This is the best article I've seen so far, explains the key points of the policy changes which Ebayers are disgusted with, and provides some links for further reading. If you are hungry for more, just hit a search engine with 'Ebay Boycott' or 'Ebay Sellers Strike' and there are plenty of links. Also search the Ebay forums for, 'Sign The Pledge' - there have been over 14,000 messages posted to the thread, and on every forum page Sellers are stating they have cancelled their listings, closed their Ebay shops & won't be buying items either...the boycott lasts 18th - 25th Feb 2008. If you are a buyer and think higher selling fees don't matter to you, think again, Ebay sellers have to raise their own prices in response, we don't want to be forced to do this...
    • rebrad, on 02/20/2008, -4/+11Agree, eBay has lost it's way. The sellers will disappear when it becomes more of a pain in the ass than the meager profit the seller makes then why bother.
      • imikedaman, on 02/20/2008, -7/+8There are still plenty of people who just want to get rid of some junk in their garage or have some old DVDs and games they want to sell. In fact, I'm pretty sure that was the point of eBay in the first place. I couldn't care less about what the power sellers do.
        • rebrad, on 02/20/2008, -5/+1You don't have to be a power seller to get screwed by a bad buyer. Having your junk bid up by people that have no intention of paying for it makes you hesitant to sell again and with no negatives allowed for buyers you can't even be forewarned of a problem until it happens.
        • satanswetnipple, on 02/21/2008, -0/+2Then offer buy it now. I have given up on the auctions on buy it now (for the past year) because there is always a sniper or three that get ridiculous at the end of the auction. I would rather just an honest price so I can buy the thing. In fact a week ago I wanted a TV on Ebay, but knew there would be retards taking it above retail. So I immediately went and got one at a brick and mortar store, got a 20% reduction on the sticker price, then came home and checked the ended ebay auction. Some moron had bid 10% more than the sticker price in the store.

          The second most annoying thing about buying on ebay is being held hostage by the sellers feedback. Been there, had to give positive feedback when sent fake goods (plastic 300 year old antiques?!) on more than one occasion.
          • Steeple, on 02/21/2008, -0/+1agree! i just want to buy-it-now and i don't care about the $10 i could have saved by waiting five days!
    • gypsi, on 02/20/2008, -11/+7boohoo. ebay "stores" killed ebay. now maybe you'll have to start a legitimate online business
    • rlbond86, on 02/20/2008, -8/+31as an ebay buyer, it's about time they got rid of the sellers' ability to blackmail me into leaving positive feedback
      • Darthyoshiboy, on 02/20/2008, -4/+6Amen!
      • SiliconRain, on 02/20/2008, -3/+10Absolutely. When every seller has 99%+ positive feedback, even when they're selling knocked-off Chinese junk, you know the feedback system is broken.

        Finally the feedback ratings might actually mean something.
      • counterplex, on 02/20/2008, -1/+11I don't use ebay often but by removing sellers ability to leave negative feedback they're bringing ebay sellers on the same footing as e.g. any B&M seller. Any customer has the ability to report a B&M seller to BBB or the equivalent without fear of the reverse. A seller leaving negative feedback about a buyer seems much like a criminal saying that his target wasn't much of a mark anyway.
      • Grimdotdotdot, on 02/20/2008, -3/+10But they've gone about it the wrong way. It seems to me that the perfect solution would be to only allow users to enter feedback for one month (or something), and keep it hidden until the end of that month or until both parties have left their feedback.
      • allisonaxe, on 02/20/2008, -1/+16I stopped buying on ebay a few years ago because i got burned on a purchase of a dreamcast game: it took a month for the seller to send the item, and when they did, they sent the wrong product (a yearly-increment football game from two years prior) not only that, but said item was scratched to hell. it looked as if someone had taken it out to the parking lot and rubbed the disc across the asphalt.) when I complained, they refused to refund, and no longer had the item in question (they offered an exchange for something else if I'd pay to ship the disc back, and pay them to ship the next item back to me...) i refused, and left a very negative review, only to be met with a (false) negative review back at me. ebay never corrected the issue themselves, instead insisted that I 'work it out on my own.'

        the fact that they're getting rid of the ability for sellers to give feedback may actually lead me to give it a second look, though. when it goes for the really old games and other things that I like to collect, there's not many other places to look that don't jack the prices up.
        • shodanx, on 02/20/2008, -7/+1once I ate a potatoe, and it didn't taste good
          I haven't eaten since
          • thecrazyd, on 02/20/2008, -0/+5More like he will get his potatoes from sources that don't sell rotten potatoes.
        • shodanx, on 02/20/2008, -7/+0once I ate a potatoe, and it didn't taste good
          I haven't eaten since
        • PoopStick, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1I think i bought from the same seller i left negative feed back then they left negative feed back for me...I had no idea why he left negative feedback i paid as soon as the auction ended....I complained to eBay and they said i should work it out with the seller...
          I waited 6 weeks for my DreamCast light Gun.... and 4 weeks before i got a response from the seller saying he didnt have it.... and at that time i left negative feedback... and he in return left me negative feedback while he had my money and i had nothing....
        • debipier, on 02/20/2008, -0/+0This seller should have been terminated, but that is Ebay's fault, as well as leaving bad buyers on the site... If ebay had monitored properly, then none of this would have been needed... And it's not really about feedback for them, they are trying hard to get the sellers to have lower feedback scores so that they can collect HIGHER FEES FROM THEM!! Doesn't take a rocket scientist!!
          • allisonaxe, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2the reason he wasn't terminated was because the guy was a power seller who ran a huge ebay business. he blamed the incident on "one of his warehouse staff" when i was communicating with him. upon examining his feedback page, he actually had TONS of negatives... but he'd done so many transactions in general that it was still less than 10% of his overall rating. (and upon examination, all the negative reviews he had racked up had retaliation, too.)
      • crossmr, on 02/20/2008, -0/+7Yes, to someone dealing in several thousand transactions a month, a negative feedback now and then means nothing. To a buyer who only makes one or two purchases a month, a negative feedback has a big impact, especially if its false. I'm just shocked ebay is so willing to suddenly upset their precious power sellers they've been protecting and letting run rampant over the rules for years.
      • Scrubby, on 02/20/2008, -2/+5As a seller on ebay, I have been burned by numerous buyers.
        I send out an item, they claim it is broken and they want a refund. I comply but ask them to send the item back on my dime unlike most sellers. They break the item and send it back. Then they leave me bad feedback because I didn't fall for their "get item for free" scheme. It happens quite a bit.
        Then there is people that bid and never intend to pay. That costs you 2 weeks of fighting to get the fees back from ebay.
    • signal15, on 02/20/2008, -1/+8Here's what they need to do:

      - Don't display the feedback until *both* parties have left it.
      - FORCE buyers and sellers to leave feedback. If you have more than 3 outstanding feedbacks (on your behalf), you cannot bid or create auctions.

      Now would be a good time to roll out the Google Auction and Escrow service.
      • satanswetnipple, on 02/21/2008, -0/+1Good, but the first rule is open to abuse. A bad seller can just leave no feedback at all to avoid being labelled a bad seller. There needs to be an agreed "transaction period". The transaction period must be agreed on, some transactions can take place within a day or two, other transactions can take months (international surface post). If either party neglects to leave feedback within the time limit, the party forfeits the right to leave feedback and the other parties feedback is put on public display.
    • chris8535, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2Craigslist FTW!
    • mcduckov, on 02/20/2008, -1/+1tl;dr However, if it isn't broken why do you take a baseball bat to it and smash it to bits? The entire Ebay model has developed around this uneasy relationship between buyers and sellers...both holding considerable power over the other. I have received retaliatory negative feedback from a seller and I made note in my follow-up that it was purely retaliatory. I think that works just fine. I think this move will tend to push out the smaller sellers who can't handle a sudden rush of absurd demands from buyers who now face no repercussions. It will turn it into more of an Amazon but the world already has an Amazon.
  • mishadmiller, on 02/20/2008, -15/+37*****, now it's going to cost more to sell my used thongs!
    • TiMMY8765, on 02/20/2008, -7/+42*****, now it's going to cost more to buy used thongs!
      • BeyondGoodNEvil, on 02/20/2008, -4/+5This is the wittiest quick response I've seen in a while.
        • Incomp3tnt, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2Wasn't really that quick if you look at the timestamps on the comments.
    • vuke69, on 02/20/2008, -8/+19How do you think I feel? The used tampon market isn't exactly what it used to be.
      • wbeavis, on 02/20/2008, -0/+9Excuse me, that's "Certified Pre-Owned" tampons.
    • DivineMonkey, on 02/20/2008, -1/+3Neither is the used Blow Up Doll market =(
    • maelstromwar, on 02/20/2008, -3/+1Don't you normally pay people to take your used thongs?
    • PurpleSfinx, on 02/20/2008, -1/+5Go into the sandal business.
    • novemberdream07, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3there's always craigs list
    • ohcoaster, on 02/20/2008, -0/+6Auctioner: Our first item is a pair of panties confiscated from a prostitute.
      Quagmire: Fifty bucks.
      Auctioner: She had nine STDs.
      Quagmire: Forty-five bucks.
      Auctioner: And when we caught her she wet herself.
      Quagmire: Fifty bucks.
  • WordsnCollision, on 02/20/2008, -2/+35When it comes to choosing who to please, Wall Street always comes first. Ebay has shareholder expectations to meet, after all. I'm a forner eBay seller, btw, i got out when things started going downhill for sellers and i see it's just gotten worse. And will GET worse.
    • CharlesSaint, on 02/20/2008, -2/+16Free market rules state that as ebay's demand goes down, its substitutes demand goes up and/or a new business fills the void. Hopefully this will only increase competition for ebay.
      • RevJonathan, on 02/20/2008, -1/+15eBay is in serious need of competition. I used to run a small business on eBay and it was great. Now, I would never consider buying or selling on ebay unless I had to.

        Google needs to do something. If they made an auction site... I'd get right back in it.
    • madroneDorf, on 02/20/2008, -1/+3This is the fundalmental flaw in the thinking of many companies, and many people on wall street. Yes, ultimately shareholders own the company, however by making decisions that favor wallstreet over the consumer is generally putting short term advantages over long term advantages. One could also state it this way, they are putting the short term interests of wallstreet over the long term interests of wall street. Pissing off customers to make money in the short term will drive customers away which in the long run will reduce the performance, and hence the stock price of the company, which a rational shareholder should be against.
      • spawnfree, on 02/20/2008, -1/+3Too bad they are all monkey-logic thinkers.

        More money now = good. Anything more complex or long-term doesn't fit into their heads.
    • siszam, on 02/21/2008, -1/+1Bloomberg shows Ebay is -18 for the year and dropping. That sums it up.
  • speedracer17, on 02/20/2008, -25/+29Wake up Ebay. Not allowing sellers to give buyers negative feedback is a joke. With a 99% positive feedback, I get scammed every month by bad buyers. It will make the ebay marketplace even more unbalanced.
    • gypsi, on 02/20/2008, -9/+17how the hell do you get scammed by buyers? the worst that can happen is that they don't pay. there are cleary numerous ways that sellers screw buyers.
      • billydisaster, on 02/20/2008, -3/+7They can try to haggle on the price after winning, or they could pretend the item wasn't delivered. They can demand a partial refund after delivery, for whatever reason. Plenty of ways, pretty rare though.
        • NichowA, on 02/20/2008, -0/+11Ship certified. Sellers already charge outrageous prices for shipping anyway, actually use some of it to cover your ass by getting a signature on delivery. As to refunds, put a clear policy in your auction and stick to it. Require the buyer to ship the item back to get any refund, but don't be a douche about accepting returns (repeat business is entirely possible, but being a dick about a return will eliminate any chance of it).
          • billydisaster, on 02/20/2008, -8/+2There isn't that much of a profit margin in selling on ebay. Taking another hit by sending certified makes it even less worthwhile. Plus the seller fee hikes of around 40%. I don't think the prices are outrageous at all. If you don't like the total price don't buy it.
          • 11oops, on 02/20/2008, -1/+3Then leave the business. A boycott isn't going to increase your profit margin, and being able to leave negs isn't going to stop buyer fraud. Remember, feedback means nothing to buyers. They can start a new ID and bid on 20 $0.01 ebook BINs to get a +20 in five minutes.
          • billydisaster, on 02/20/2008, -2/+1I left ages ago, because it took too much time and made too little money. I still buy stuff there cos I reckon it's great value, much cheaper than shops, and you can find pretty much anything you want. There is some useless junk on there, but you get the same low quality stuff in shops too.
      • Darthyoshiboy, on 02/20/2008, -1/+3There are plenty of ways, but there are equally as many means for sellers to deal with them.
      • LeRenard, on 02/20/2008, -3/+7Pay for item, receive item, do a charge back, keep both item and the money you paid for it. It sucks.
        • 11oops, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3Granted, but does leaving a negative get your item back? As a seller, do you really review the feedback of each bidder on each item you sell? How many of the PowerSellers that sell 100s of items a day do you think review the feedback of each and every bidder? If the buyer had a neg that said 'Did chargeback, buyer is a lying thief' and they responded with a 'Seller never shipped item, Paypal sided in my favor' would you really cancel their bid? As you can see, feedback is irrelevant when it comes to buyers.
        • silveravnt, on 02/20/2008, -2/+1Yes I would cancel their bid. It's not like they are the only ones shopping.
          • 11oops, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2And if they bid in the closing hours while you're away from a computer, in the closing minutes/seconds even if you are on your computer, or if they do a BIN then what? Will you refund their money, refuse to ship, and offer a 2nd chance offer to the other bidder at a lower cost because of their low feedback? If so, you are a nonperforming seller and I hope all your bidders report your as such and leave you appropriate feedback (now that they can't be bullied otherwise). Ebay doesn't look to kindly on your kinds.
          • 11oops, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1What if they were the only bidder on your item and no one else was watching that item, or what if their bid exceeded the previous bidders proxy and raised the current price by $50.00 on an item with a lot of bidders/watchers. Would you still cancel it, or would you let greed get the better of you?
      • ukfoole, on 02/20/2008, -3/+6I didn't think it was possible until I started selling some books this month. They were all new from a box of them that never made it to the shelf before I closed my physical store. I pulled each one out and gave it a look over and didn't see any defects on the book, thumbed the pages and could hear the pop as the pages seperated for probably the second time it their life and it looked the same as the day I got it from the distributor. I posted the item as new and sold it for about 1/3 of the cover price and my cost of shipping is cost plus $2. That $2 means I ship it the day you pay, not print out the shipping label and mail it whenever. The Postal service will have that box inhand that business day if they are still open. Also, it goes towards the bubblewrap and other filler cost that I use to make sure that box will survive a nuclear blast.

        2 days later, the guy writes that the book is "obviously used, with huge gouges, torn pages, lots of wear, covered in gunk, could have gotten the book cheaper locally and that I lied about the condition of the book". I offered the standard return policy I have. "Return in 7 days in the same condition, and you get your money back. You pay shipping though. If the item was damaged, then we take it to the Postal Service since it is insured." The person wrote back demanding a partial refund (75% of what he paid for the the book!). I said "No, my return policy is right there."

        Haven't heard from him for 2 weeks now, and really want to leave a negative feedback, but as a seller, I am just as concerned of retaliatory negatives.

        Almost as bad as the buyers (I can remember about 12 of the last 50 things I have sold) that take 7 days to pay, and then a day later you get pelted with frantic emails demanding where the item is and "has it even shipped??!?!?!?!?!?", even though a shipping tag gets marked to the item automagically when you use the integrated shipping system.
        • umrgregg, on 02/20/2008, -1/+1It amazes me that buyers will try to ***** with people who have their address.
    • XBSHX, on 02/20/2008, -5/+9That's exactly why I think eBay needs to do what they're doing.
    • VcTrMASO, on 02/20/2008, -3/+5If everyone just used paypal or some other established online payment method, then they can post on buyers feedback that they payed promptly. I think this would assure that sellers know the buyer is ligament and will probably pay very quickly.
      • Slade605, on 02/20/2008, -1/+3So are all buyers "ligament" as you so put it?
      • NichowA, on 02/20/2008, -0/+5I don't think that word means what you think it means.
      • one7, on 02/20/2008, -0/+6Are ligament buyers better than tendon buyers?
      • SatansSpatula, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2Ligament buyers connect bone buyers to bone buyers. Tendon buyers, on the other hand, connect bone buyers to *muscle* buyers.
        Insert intelligent design joke here.
      • VcTrMASO, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1lol maybe I should proofread instead of just running it through spell check.
    • davewashere, on 02/20/2008, -2/+3What eBay needs to do is note whenever someone GIVES negative feedback. If I'm a buyer and I've left negative feedback on 5 of my last 6 purchases, the seller for the next auction I bid on should be able to see this so they can choose whether or not to accept my bid. This is similar to the reputation system used by some online forums. If you give negative rep, it hurts your rep a little bit, so you only use it when you really have something to be angry about.
      • WriterSD, on 02/20/2008, -2/+1They actually do this. You can see the feedback anyone's left for others.
    • Hubris, on 02/20/2008, -4/+4The should put in a system that forces you to leave feedback within a certain period of the auction, but you can't see the feedback left for you until after you have left your own. That way neither side can hold anyone hostage for a rating.
  • deviouskoopa, on 02/20/2008, -6/+52I think this still applies today, but I stopped visiting/buying off eBay last year after reading about users getting randomly banned with no appeal, PayPal scam stories, and *****/no customer service. I don't speak for everyone, but I had to boycott a site that seems so unsafe and doesn't seem to give a ***** about their customers.

    http://www.paypalsucks.com/
    • brufleth, on 02/20/2008, -0/+10Ebay has been all but ruined by scams of one sort or another. Maybe it is still good for collectibles or the like but the vast majority of stuff seems to be retail stores that post things at super low prices and then beat the difference out of you with fees, shipping, and selling you stuff that should be included. See: All photo equipment on ebay.

      At first sites like Craigslist freaked me out a little because you often actually meet the buyer or seller. After several sales though I think that for most crap it is far better. You meet in person. Exchange cold hard cash. Never hear from each other again. End of story. No third or fourth parties getting involved or freezing transactions. No sketchy shipping charges or delayed shipping. It certainly isn't a replacement since I doubt anyone in your immediate area is going to have some random ass collectible but for stuff like bikes, tables, desks, couches, and other basic stuff it is pretty handy.
    • bsalus01, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1i just got suspended last month because of 4 negative reviews in 6 months. even though my rating is 485 with a 98.6% positive feedback rating.

      the only problem is that they won't give me a probationary period for me to improve my rating, and i can't connect any of my buyers to offer them a partial refund in exchange for them to change their feedback. so in effect there is no way i can get my account unsuspended.

      i can't wait for someone to put them out of business. what we need is an auction aggregation site that becomes more popular than ebay. that way i can list an auction anywhere i want and know it will be seen by a lot of people. ebay traffic is like lock in.
    • merkk, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1I agree, i think ebay/paypal sucks. They've gotten so big they dont give a crap who they step on because they think they have millions more so what is one abused customer? I had a paypal account frozen for 6 months. They kept all the money in the account for 6 months and couldn't even give me a decent explanation as to why. I stopped using both of them and dont plan on using either of them.
  • Zoshchenko, on 02/20/2008, -10/+71Once eBay started shifting away from being a wonderfully fun garage sale in which individuals sold to other individuals and became a business-to-consumer portal, it started its present downward spiral. It's a horrible place to buy and sell goods any more and you can pretty much expect to get scammed. With feedback going away, it's going to be stupid to actually buy something on eBay. It's done.
    • gypsi, on 02/20/2008, -3/+7bingo. all these people moaning about seller restrictions can thank both ebay's greed and all the wanna-be etailers who exploited ebay because they couldn't get a reputable online store going
    • billydisaster, on 02/20/2008, -7/+6I like the stores, it's a good way to find and get hold of specialist stuff at a cheap price. I've bought lots of industrial products from small dealers and got great service and prices for example.
    • mCanada, on 02/20/2008, -5/+1I hate to say this, but facebook may have a massive opportunity to step in. Who else has such a massive user base, with active groups and people actually using their real names (not a345_seller.us).
    • aladrin, on 02/20/2008, -1/+14"With feedback going away, it's going to be stupid to actually buy something on eBay."

      I think you have that backwards. It may be stupid to sell something, but this will allow buyers to have more confidence in the sellers. Buying will be safer than ever... It's selling that won't be as safe.
    • brufleth, on 02/20/2008, -1/+5Agreed. It worked when it was some guy or gal selling to some other guy or gal. Now it is ruled by shifty retail stores.
  • MrFancy, on 02/20/2008, -2/+16Was ebay meant to support businesses? It seems that those who buy/sell for a living are hit the hardest.
    • gypsi, on 02/20/2008, -2/+5this is one of the things that killed ebay. once sleazy listing spammers took over ebay, it wasn't worth going there anymore
    • VeganG, on 02/20/2008, -1/+10Agreed. You can barely even call it an auction house anymore. Everything is Buy It Now; to me, that's retail.
    • billydisaster, on 02/20/2008, -3/+2Easy enough to filter the listings tho, just choose to view 'used' and 'acutions only'
  • LordSeth, on 02/20/2008, -20/+7This and Scientology http://digg.com/business_finance/Scientology_Given ...
  • GhostyBoy, on 02/20/2008, -5/+14They are partnered with paypal, which is one of the least trustworthy money changers on the net. I've worked in the financial sector and this isn't slander, it's friendly advice. Ditch paypal, unless your a fraudster looking for easy money.

    Paypalsucks.com
    • AriaStar, on 02/20/2008, -2/+17I've had to sue PayPal. They froze my account in it with the money I needed to move. PayPal wanted to verify my identity, and I sent them every piece of ID I had, down to a copy of my social security card and even my business license. But they still said my identity couldn't be verified. I needed that money desperately. I'd given my notice to my landlord and he'd already found new tenants. So I had to sue.

      Long story short, I was forced to move into my freezing office for a couple months during winter, without a shower (bathing is hard without a shower or bath) until I made the money for another place while i had a lawsuit pending. PayPal didn't show in court, judge ordered the money released to me, and PayPal banned me from a future account.

      But, as I sell online and buyers demand online paying, I am stuck with my tenth or so PayPal account at this point (see the first-tier comment below this to see why I just had to make yet another account).
      • tucsonwc, on 02/20/2008, -2/+1I don't get this story. You gave notice to your landlord. Therefore you had another place lined up to live in right?
        Were you paying for that new place with Paypal OR did they freeze the money in your checking account? It took you months to get to small claims court?
    • bthug7, on 02/20/2008, -4/+3I live in Omaha(Nebraska, I'm used to people not knowing where it is ha) and they're expanding their offices here. They have radio adds all the time talking about how great of a place to work it is. They're probably trying to replace all the workers they've lost due to morality issues.
      • umrgregg, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1All those women of loose morals there in Omaha, eh?

        Or did you mean ethical reasons? :/
    • alpinweiss88, on 02/20/2008, -3/+2Paypal isn't partnered with eBay, they were acquired by them 5 years ago.
    • silveravnt, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3I've never had a problem with paypal but what do you suggest to use instead? For really expensive stuff I insist they send me a check. Paypals take is to high.
    • tucsonwc, on 02/20/2008, -1/+2If you didn't know that eBay OWNS PayPal, I seriously doubt you work in the financial sector, unless you are a janitor at a bank or perhaps a teller.
  • AriaStar, on 02/20/2008, -15/+27eBay has nailed the final nail into its coffin. This works in the favor of buyers, but that means nothing, NOTHING, if people won't sell there anymore. I'll still buy, but I'm reconsidering listing anything anymore.

    I've been on eBay since 1998 when I was 17, and have watched eBay change and evolve over the years. I've been ripped off, both as a buyer AND as a SELLER, most recently in December when a buyer acknowledged via eBay getting his item, but filing a PayPal dispute anyway, and they found in his favor. If I leave a negative for him now, he'll do the same in retaliation. Starting after midnight, I couldn't leave it, even if I wanted to, and yet know full well that he'll probably leave negative for me knowing I can't leave it for him (as he deserves) in return. The most I've been ripped off as a seller is for almost $900.

    eBay has just made it easier and taken away all protection sellers have. With no sellers, there will be no point to eBay.


    R.I.P, eBay, and good riddance.
    • digudown, on 02/20/2008, -5/+12You seller overestimate you power. Ebay exists because of its buyers. Due to dishonest sellers many people were reluctant to buy from ebay. With these changes if more buyers are attracted to ebay, it will help sellers.
      • billydisaster, on 02/20/2008, -2/+3I would say that the dishonest seller was ebay itself, and paypal. They advertise paypal as totally safe, whereas it's not, unless a bunch of conditions are met. Most honest sellers will meet the conditions by default, so it's possible (but rare) be scammed by buyers. If you want to scam someone as a seller its easy to do, but there is no notice to buyers that they aren't protected by Paypal.
        Also, I'm not quite sure how seller fee increases of around 40% are going to attract more buyers to ebay?
        • cyberbeing, on 02/20/2008, -0/+4I almost lost $500 because of a fraudulent seller through Ebay a month or so ago. The seller never sent the item, withdrew my payment, and then conveniently disappeared. I was on top of it and filed a dispute through PayPal quickly but even after I won my claim they said they could only refund $200... When PayPal asked for feedback on my resolution center dispute I angrily told them they should do something like hold payment to help protect against fraud (which it seems they are going to do now). I wasn't happy with leaving it like that so I did a charge-back and ultimately my credit card company got PayPal to cough up the other $300 a couple months later (I was lucky).

          So as a buyer I am happy to see some of these changes being made especially the part about holding payment up to 21 days on risky purchases. Sure it sucks for sellers but with all the fraud that happens on Ebay, I'm sure this will be a lifesaver for many buyers and allow them to get full refunds.
        • billydisaster, on 02/20/2008, -2/+1What it actually means is that less people will sell on ebay. Cashflow is the lifeblood of any business, and if paypal are now going to keep sellers cash for 21 days that is going to make things unviable for a lot of sellers. The motivation is not to help buyers, it's to keep cash in paypal's coffers for longer. If they really wanted to solve your problem, hold cash until item marked as delivered by buyer, then release it straight away.
        • davotoula, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1@cyberbeing

          Charge backs hurt PayPal and should be done as often as possible in these circumstances. I keep telling all my friends to always use their credit card when buying on ebay as PayPal nor eBay will care if the buyer loses money using the system.

          Did you know that when you sign up to PayPal, you wave your right to do a charge back? They will cancel your PayPal account if you do a charge back!
      • prezzy, on 02/20/2008, -3/+3You're wrong Ebay exists because of both buyers and sellers and it is clear that the current feedback system needs to be revamped not taken away from sellers. This is a bad move clearly by all the negativity this has brought on.
        • banmaster, on 02/20/2008, -2/+6*****! Every damn transaction I have with a highly rated seller I get the same old "We leave feedback for you AFTER you've left it for us" crap!
          Taking away the seller's ability to keep my feedback points hostage will go a LONG way to making ebay a better place like it used to be!
    • echoblaster, on 02/20/2008, -4/+2Sounds like time for a format war in e-commerce. Except, like, democratic...
    • orbit1979, on 02/20/2008, -5/+2I completely agree and empathize with you. I have been ripped off as a seller several times. Like you, I have watched Ebay evolve into something completely different than what it was 7+ years ago, and I can't honestly say much of it is for the better. Anymore, selling on Ebay is becoming a chore, and you practically need a lawyer to draw up a listing for a god dam rubber ducky to sort of protect yourself from ***** buyers. To be fare, on the seller side, Ebay has become dominated by merchants and businessmen who have turned a fun experience into something similar to going to a car dealership. But as a "old school" seller I guess (not being a merchant or businessman) now I find out that when buyers scam me and I lose my property and my money, I HAVE TO give them positive feedback for it? *****........THAT!!!

      R.I.P. Ebay.
    • 11oops, on 02/20/2008, -0/+5USPS delivery confirmation is an extra $0.75 or something, free if you print your labels through Paypal. Paypal will NEVER side with the buyer if you can provide a valid DC # that confirms delivery to their confirmed address. If you're such a foolish seller that you didn't get DC on a big ticket item, let alone insurance, you're exactly what is the problem with Ebay. If you can't understand the policies and protections afforded to you and chose to ship to an unconfirmed address you have no one to blame but yourself.
      • 23101, on 02/20/2008, -3/+0true but you can still get a credit card chargeback and it won't matter that you won the dispute because you'll still get hit for the money.
      • AriaStar, on 02/20/2008, -1/+2WRONG. I found out you have to use restricted delivery, meaning ONLY the person named on the PayPal account is able to sign for it. Anything else, even tracking, as I used, proving delivery to that household, isn't good enough. It's not proof enough that the person on the account received it. I had never even heard of restricted delivery until December. So, without that, PayPal can, and often will, side with the buyer.

        Look, if PayPal attracts buyers, and buyers will only pay via PayPal, then sellers have the choices to either not sell at all because no one will pay,. or to use PayPal and be at their mercy.
  • lerker, on 02/20/2008, -4/+83Much of the argument seems to relate to eBay removing the ability of sellers to leave negative feedback; the rationale being that some sellers withhold feedback to coerce the buyer into leaving positive feedback. As an alternative solution, couldn't eBay make feedback "blind"? Under this mechanism, at the end of the transaction, the buyer and seller leave feedback for each other but neither gets published until both are locked in. Wouldn't that encourage honest feedback?
    • LBobRife, on 02/20/2008, -4/+5The only problem I can forsee with that is that there would be no incentive to leave positive feedback. People could leave negative feedback and get positive feedback in return when that negative feedback was unwarranted.
      • HypocriteDigg, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2Well why would they leave negative feedback if it was unwarranted?
      • AriaStar, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2Only a real ***** would leave unwarranted negative feedback in this case. That would discourage a good buyer from buying again. And a buyer wouldn't want to be banned from buying items from a seller who followed through.
    • gypsi, on 02/20/2008, -2/+17when professional sellers took over ebay, feedback became an absolute bullcrap cat-and-mouse game.
      • mess7777, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1agreed. the feedback system needs changes because of that. plain and simple. This is a step.
    • drborgata, on 02/20/2008, -2/+1kudos to you, thats what i thought as well.

      i half think this is a false alarm, the feedbacks. the idea is : eBay creates a problem everyone will be up in arms about, the feeback, later "succumbs" to users demands that they reinstate it and everyone then walks away with happy thought thinking eBay did something for them, forgetting about the higher rates.
    • serif69, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1I completely agree with your point, though I feel it would be too little too late. I stopped using ebay after I found out that these professional sellers have their own set of rules. My account was somehow compromised and I had to create a new one. I then had three winning bids with my new account cancelled for no apparent reason, and only one seller actually got back to me with an explanation. The explanation? I didn't have "enough positive feedback to buy anything on ebay". It was a new account! How could I possibly have gotten new positive feedback with nobody willing to sell anything to me, and the ***** system of withholding feedback until positive feedback is left to the sellers? I also couldn't leave negative feedback for these sellers because no transaction took place. Since then, I've taken my business to reputable online stores who actually want business and respect their customers.
      As long as these "power sellers" continue to hold buyers hostage with their own rules, ebay will not get any better. I hope they have to start their own independent online stores so they have to face up to actual honest business practices or risk losing everything. You know, like actual business owners have to.
    • Flipperbw, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1if one party never left feedback then the other one would never show. so a seller could scam, get negative feedback, and never leave the buyer feedback => never have negative feedback show up.
      • AriaStar, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2Good point. The work-around to this is that feedback will be made visible after 21 days. After then, no feedback can be left.
  • keraneuology, on 02/20/2008, -2/+32I don't buy off of eBay very often, but one of the most recent purchases never arrived. I sent three messages to the seller without response. I opened a dispute which I won and the seller gave me a negative review saying that it was my fault I didn't receive my book and that I was out of luck. I, for one, am glad he (and others like him) can't do that anymore. Now, if eBay set it up so that a seller could leave a negative feedback if the buyer loses the dispute... or even allow people to see how many disputes one filed vs how many were won/lost that would be fair.
    • billydisaster, on 02/20/2008, -2/+3That does suck a bit, but really how much does feedback matter as a buyer? Not at all I'd say. Not many sellers are going to turn your purchase down for one bad feedback.
    • CanIGetAWitness, on 02/21/2008, -0/+1Your proposal sounds good, well thought out and fair.
    • IreneAttolia, on 02/27/2008, -0/+0eBay is a chance for modern man to trust his neighbor, a little give here, a little take there. An amazing phenomenon in our fractured world. You meet all types on eBay, too. I remember the former cop who got indignant when I questioned why my shipment was delayed. I remember the occasion when my shipment never arrived, and never got returned, and the seller credited my account anyway. The bidding wars are the worst - maybe they will do away with sniping.
  • rapincandy, on 02/20/2008, -15/+1eBaY!
  • zomgz, on 02/20/2008, -3/+12start listin good alternatives folks.. you think most will stop selling if they dont have good alternatives? ;/
    • gretaspeaks, on 03/22/2008, -0/+0ioffer.com; esty.com; onlineauctions.com aka ola.com; overstock.com

      ~ JOIN THE eBay BOYCOTT ~ BE INFORMED ~

      Find your State or International Location folder and join us. Former employees are welcome too!

      A place to organize.
      A place to unite.
      A place to focus.
      United we stand, Divided we fall.

      http://forums.delphiforums.com/boycottebay

      http://www.accknowl.com/

      Boycott Victoriously …..while making noise!

      Evacuate by May 1, 2008!
  • echoblaster, on 02/20/2008, -4/+7Dammit to all hell. First the dollar's inevitable collapse, an now I won't be able to get flea market deals on eBAy. So much for the spoils of globalization!
  • gypsi, on 02/20/2008, -3/+23these professional ebay sellers turned ebay into just another retailer/wholesaler consortium and absolutely killed the fun and usability of ebay.
    • umrgregg, on 02/20/2008, -0/+5Don't forget the snipers......
    • TechCF, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2snipers exist in real world live auctions too, but.. i agree that the new feedback system is no good. I'm glad QXL (european online auction network) are not changing their feedback system.
  • verifex, on 02/20/2008, -2/+10eBay is trying to leverage themselves on the backs of the little guys who buy and sell things on their site. Take a hint from craigslist and make your service serve the customers (both buyers and sellers) better, not just yourselves.
    • banmaster, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2Actually, they can't do this legally now that they have shareholders! Under the law, their first and foremost concer HAS to be the maximization of profits for shareholders. Everything else is secondary.
  • digudown, on 02/20/2008, -6/+17Its a great move by ebay. I stopped buying on ebay after getting retaliatory negative feedback from sellers twice. Now I am willing to give it another try.
  • bthug7, on 02/20/2008, -10/+7Sell your ebay stock asap!

    *note I am not liable for any financial advice given on digg.
  • Sogui, on 02/20/2008, -6/+7Wow, those Alexa graphs were absolutely meaningless.
    • ukfoole, on 02/20/2008, -1/+2Actually, they are when you think about it.

      Back in 2005, practically the whole world filtered through ebay.com. Now there is ebay.co.uk, .ch?, .ko, .jp, .gr, .it ? :)

      Globalization.
  • lostmongoose, on 02/20/2008, -10/+14maybe sellers can suck it up and pay the increased seller's fees with the all the extra money that they charge for shipping at the ***** rates.
    • terajoule, on 02/20/2008, -7/+2So then don't buy from them???
      • banmaster, on 02/20/2008, -1/+5Where else can you get the stuff though. There IS nowhere else, at least nowhere else where the prices aren't even higher.
        • terajoule, on 03/12/2008, -0/+1So you want something for nothing?
    • amishjim, on 02/20/2008, -0/+4IF you want $50 for product X, then charge $50. Not $5 and then $45 shipping, I hate that *****.
      • ElectroBot, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Totally agree. I'm actually willing to pay a dollar or 2 more (on items up to $50) rather then buy from such "dishonest" sellers (Who knows what else they are changing/covering up)
      • terajoule, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1The item could be $25 and $25 for shipping, but you are still paying a total of 50 dollars. Makes no difference.
  • meghalc, on 02/20/2008, -6/+14I got out when i had to pay $2.00 for BUYIT NOW auction with reserve plus Getting money deducted from Paypal transfers...

    Being greedy will kill ebay.
    • gypsi, on 02/20/2008, -6/+4good riddance to sellers like you
    • 11oops, on 02/20/2008, -0/+7I guess you deserve everything for free? Don't want Paypal fees? Then accept money orders. Reserve fees? Then remove the damn reserve. Buy It Now? Not really an auction anymore, now is it?
  • jasonh1234, on 02/20/2008, -5/+12craigslist does me just fine.
  • VeganG, on 02/20/2008, -3/+13It's strange how Yahoo Auctions never caught on here. In other countries, ebay has no presence, and it's all about Yahoo Auctions. People act like there's no alternative to ebay, but there is.

    (Not that I've ever even been to Yahoo Auctions. Go figure)
    • Zain123, on 02/20/2008, -0/+9Yahoo Auctions closed down for U.S. customers in 2007.
    • banmaster, on 02/20/2008, -1/+4I've never heard of yahoo auctions (australia), but thats not really surprising as pretty much everything yahoo has tried its hands in over the past 5 years has turned into ***** and a 40% drop in its worth as a company.
    • 11oops, on 02/20/2008, -2/+5Ebay sellers have bitched and moaned about every policy change made since 1996 (remember the complaints about the very first feedback system?) yet they continue to stick around. They stage their publicity boycotts where they think one week of several thousand sellers not listing will make a difference in Ebay's global market of millions of sellers. Yahoo opened their auction service as a viable alternative, but all the whining sellers stuck around on Ebay anyways, and therefore Yahoo didn't make it.

      Everytime a seller opens his mouth to complain and 'boycott' I ask 'Why not just leave' and they say there are no alternatives as good as Ebay. Seems they must have it pretty good then if they're unwilling to leave.
      • agisten, on 02/20/2008, -1/+3The problem its not JUST about sellers, vast majority of buyers never heard of anything but ebay. If even a thousand ebay sellers walk about to different web site, that wont change a thing, and eventually most of them will come back, since 99.99% of buyer wont be even aware such alternative service exists. To make it really work, there would need in MASSIVE ad campaign - talking millions here! Without such massive investment such alternative would be EPIC FAIL.
        • 11oops, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Then, as I wrote in another post, expect to pay for the customers/traffic Ebay gives you, and stop complaining about the rules you are expected to adhere to. In other words, realize that you need Ebay more than Ebay needs you -- there's millions more potential sellers, big and small, where you came from. Stop complaining (and then boycotting) about Ebay's fee increases because those fees pay for the 'MASSIVE ad campaigns' that bring in the buyers to buy your crap.
  • bpacana, on 02/20/2008, -4/+6I support the boycott, but i'm a seller and I want to sell stuff online... where else could I go?
    • mal1964, on 02/20/2008, -3/+3I'll make it simple for you, because you know you're not leaving eBay. Just say you "agree" with the boycott.
    • banmaster, on 02/20/2008, -4/+4Where else can you go? Stop being a potential freeloader, spend some money and create your own site and use one of the many e-comerce systems for paymkent and stuff.
      Relying on ebay is stupid and dangerous.
      • sfacets, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3Create his own website and suffer loss until/if his website gets visitors?
        • 11oops, on 02/20/2008, -0/+4Then expect to pay for the customers/traffic Ebay gives you, and stop complaining about the rules you are expected to adhere to. In other words, realize that you need Ebay, more than Ebay needs you -- there's millions more where you came from.
      • PoopStick, on 02/20/2008, -1/+1Maybe Google will get into the auction business they do have google check out

    • bassik, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3following up on banmaster's comment here are two open source e-commerce solutions http://www.oscommerce.com/ and http://www.zen-cart.com/ just get some hosting etc. now all you have to do is set it up (takes literally 10min, a bit longer if you've never setup a server) and its EASY. all store management is built into the admin interface (add/remove product, orders, etc) and theres a plethora of payment plugins for osCommerce (paypal, e-gold, goldmoney, e-bullion, etc, etc).
      • sfacets, on 02/20/2008, -1/+3Again. Ebay provides the customers. Creating a website is like setting up shop in Antartica.
    • gretaspeaks, on 03/22/2008, -0/+0esty.com; ioffer.com; overstock.com; onlineauctions.com aka ola.com

      ~ JOIN THE eBay BOYCOTT ~ BE INFORMED ~

      Find your State or International Location folder and join us. Former employees are welcome too!

      A place to organize.
      A place to unite.
      A place to focus.
      United we stand, Divided we fall.

      http://forums.delphiforums.com/boycottebay

      http://www.accknowl.com/

      Boycott Victoriously …..while making noise!

      Evacuate by May 1, 2008!
  • manova, on 02/20/2008, -3/+41I hope ebay drives away some of the professional sellers with their $15 set shipping price to cover $5 in postage. I miss the old garage sale days of ebay.
    • dotbody, on 02/20/2008, -2/+6When will people learn that ebay "shipping fees" are not for shipping costs. It's not to gouge the buyer. It's to avoid the selling fees. I repeat, it's to avoid the selling fees. When i occasionally sell on ebay, it's to one's advantage to charge high shipping. I don't do it to trick anyone. We can all see that a $5.00 book with $45 shipping is a $50 book. If you forced me to pay the fees on the shipping, I'd be forced to charge $55 for the book to cover them. So be grateful for the high shipping costs. Do I like this system? Of course not. And I hate that ebay's created "shipping cost" feedback to protect their precious fees. Sure, it's another reason to look for a better auction site. But please stop complaining about the shipping costs and do the math.
      • amishjim, on 02/20/2008, -1/+3"Be Grateful for high shipping....?" You're one of those assholes too cheap to pay the dues you agreed to.
        And I hate that ebay's created "shipping cost" feedback to protect their precious fees", because you're a little sniveling cheat ruining ebay like so many other greedy assholes
    • Barbarino, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Or seeing the exact same product listed 34985739573458 times...
  • carnag3aus, on 02/20/2008, -3/+8Problem is when i have payed, they blackmail me, wont leave you feedback till you give me good feedback, its a lose lose situation.
    • dave911la, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3Well the buyers obligation is essentially to pay and give shipping information at a timely manner. I believe if that is done the seller has no reason to give negative feedback thus I think the seller should be forced to leave feedback first before the buyer can leave feedback for the seller, that way there can be no retaliatory remarks made.
  • Qtip42, on 02/20/2008, -1/+18I think this is a good move only because some ***** left me neutral feedback after I paid immediately and he took a month to ship the item. It's assholes like that that need to get booted from ebay in general. Retaliatory feedback is annoying.
  • nsummy, on 02/20/2008, -7/+2If these guys just repeat MrBabyMan's bitching then their demands should be met by ebay in no time.
  • 911petrescue, on 02/20/2008, -2/+2eBay, you owe digging4losttreasures an apology!
  • arrowsmithrd, on 02/20/2008, -5/+3Fellow posters, it's about time this made the front page! Make a joyful (very loud) noise!!!
    • Tweekster, on 02/20/2008, -0/+0I am hoping more "sellers" and preferably every ***** store front leaves ebay.
    • gretaspeaks, on 03/22/2008, -0/+0~ JOIN THE eBay BOYCOTT ~ BE INFORMED ~

      Find your State or International Location folder and join us. Former employees are welcome too!

      A place to organize.
      A place to unite.
      A place to focus.
      United we stand, Divided we fall.

      http://forums.delphiforums.com/boycottebay

      http://www.accknowl.com/

      Boycott Victoriously …..while making noise!

      Evacuate by May 1, 2008!
  • blankoboy, on 02/20/2008, -7/+2Add to this that now Xenu now controls your Ebaying data and this is a recipe for a public relations disaster for Ebay. Scary to think they also own Skype.....is Xenu listening to our calls?
  • stuma9000, on 02/20/2008, -1/+8How about forcing the seller to leave feedback before the buyer can leave theirs? That gives the buyer more power but doesn't let non-payers get away with it.

    Tell me why that wouldn't work.
    • 23101, on 02/20/2008, -1/+4That is a great idea. I think the feedback issue is real, but their solution is simple minded and destructive.
    • banmaster, on 02/20/2008, -1/+1I've been saying this for years (literally). Right after the first "leave me good feedback and I might do the same" blackmail message I received.
    • 11oops, on 02/20/2008, -0/+4As a seller who knows I just screwed you over by misrepresenting my item and ignoring all your emails pointing this out, I will just not leave you any feedback at all. Then, the neg you left me will never be shown. If a time limit is set up (say 45 days) where it is shown anyways, who cares? It'll be on page 20 of my feedback by then.
    • donte, on 02/20/2008, -0/+5Seller scams you on an item and just takes your money waits a month to ship it or ships you something far less than what was advertised. Now I can't leave negative feedback calling him out on it to warn others because he never left any feedback for me. Every "fix" for the feedback system is going to introduce unfair advantages to either malicious sellers or malicious buyers.
  • esconsult1, on 02/20/2008, -0/+23The retaliatory feedback on ebay was really getting annoying. I sell and buy on ebay and twice sellers screwed me.

    In once instance, I bought a $1000 item. It arrived totally damaged (not in shipping) and I tried to get recourse from the seller. After having tried for a couple weeks with no satisfaction, I had no choice but to leave negative feedback. Seller left me negative feedback too and called me a "horrible buyer". This after paying him $1000 for the item on the same day the auction ended. Up to now (3 years later) no refund, and damaged item I could not use.

    In the other case, my wife bought an item, and the seller did not ship. Nothing, nada, zilch, not even an email reply after numerous attempts to contact in over 2 weeks. We asked Paypal to refund money and they did. No one could reach the seller, not even Paypal. We left negative feedback. Seller called us a "rude customer" in retaliatory feedback.

    So in the two times I have negative feedback, it was just sellers cheating me -- then kicked me in the balls when I complained. Even though I sell, this move by ebay could not have come at a better time.
    • 23101, on 02/20/2008, -3/+2I agree but just tossing it gives no credibility to the good buyers. Scams on ebay cut both ways. I buy and sell and have been stolen from by both. Modify and improve it, but don't scare good sellers away. Scammers won't care about the feedback.
      • 11oops, on 02/20/2008, -2/+2Buyers don't need feedback to be credible. Either you want my money or you don't.
    • Tweekster, on 02/20/2008, -2/+3Who honestly cares about negative feedback as a buyer? I have a couple of bogus reviews similar to you and it has never caused a problem.
    • JohnSteel, on 02/20/2008, -3/+2Did you take them to court to get your $1,000 back?
      http://smalltown.myminicity.com/
  • 23101, on 02/20/2008, -4/+8They are throwing out the baby with the bath water on the feedback issue.

    They need to address the problem but the solution is too simple. They can do something more subtle that preserves the foundation that built ebay which was the feedback system. Now feedback will be cheapened and ultimately meaningless.

    I HAVE been scammed as buyer BUT I have been scammed as a seller even more often.
  • insomniac8400, on 02/20/2008, -0/+11I am sorry but letting sellers threaten you with negative feedback hoping you will do a mutual retraction has to go. It's not right that someone selling a 1gb mp3 player as an 8gb one can hide that fact by refunding the money to those that find out and request a mutual withdraw of feedback.
    • 23101, on 02/20/2008, -2/+0I agree but there is a better solution. I think the guy who said make sellers leave feedback first has the right idea. We need and intelligent change not one that creates a blackmail/feedback extortion situation.
  • JordanM85, on 02/20/2008, -5/+10I listed 5 auctions tonight. I actually like the new feedback rule. But not the price increases... but I'm certainly not going to sell my things on a different site. eBay is still the best.
  • kahrytan, on 02/20/2008, -7/+1Would this be a bad time to tell people about my generic auction .com domain forsale?
  • ifknot, on 02/20/2008, -0/+11pro sellers have wrecked ebay and its main business model is now broken, ebay are trying to patch the problem but it is too late. sure, ebay is big and its momentum will carry it on for a while but alternative sites can start to see the light now. ebay's monopoly will start to crumble and so will its share price and if that happens in a bear market (imminent) dotcom anxiety could crash the price & share holders could pull the rug from under ebay regardless of how many people use it.
    • jasonw09, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1If ebay is trying to "patch the problem", it is by no means too late. If "pro sellers have wrecked ebay" and this change does drive these "pro sellers" away then what makes you think they wont "wreck" an alternative site?

      As for your theory on ebay crumbling to the ground... This is simply not true. The success of ebay is based on the massive amount of people that use it, this "bear market" that you speak of is also a very intelligent market that understands ebay only loses value as it loses users (buyers & sellers). So, a "crash" in value would require a massive amount of people to decide to use alternative sites.

      One last point. How effective would it be for an auction site to not be like a "monopoly"? How many alternative sites would you like to have instead? Would you rather go to a different site for each category you buy/sell at and remember a different username and passwords at n+ different sites?
  • jdubdub, on 02/20/2008, -1/+2Trademe NZ doesn't prevent negative feedback and everything works out just fine. Most sellers and buyers have 1 feedback from a sale that went bad, but it's ok - out of the thousands of sales they've done, their feedback rating will hover around 99%. Why does eBay have such a problem with it?
  • kindrobot, on 02/20/2008, -5/+6"eBay will be ending seller's abilities to leave negative feedback for buyers"

    Then this seller will be permanently boycotting ebay. Are they retarded?
    • banmaster, on 02/20/2008, -0/+9No! Its the scamming sellers that hold the buyer's feedback rating hostage unless they receive good feedback (even for failed transactions) that have ruined ebay!
    • 11oops, on 02/20/2008, -1/+4If you're afraid of negs that can't be cleared up with a follow-up comment, and have to resort to retaliatory feedback to insure you get a positive, then you are part of the problem with Ebay and I truly hope you find an alternative site so that I don't accidentally buy from you.
    • Tweekster, on 02/20/2008, -1/+3Good, no one cares.
    • amishjim, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2Seller's ruined it, so.............
  • Asystole, on 02/20/2008, -8/+6The main flaw I see with this is that ebay assumes the only people who hold feedback 'hostage', or try and scam others are sellers. The whole scheme is based on the idea that the buyers are always in the right, which common sense can tell you is simply not true. This new system only protects the buyers and it's completely unfair to the honest sellers who are now left vulnerable. I was never a regular seller on ebay but have listed things occasionally, and definitely will feel less safe with this in place.

    I've always thought that the 'blind' feedback idea that someone else mentioned was the best way to go, but there really is no instant fix for the problems, and no potential solution is flawless. The reality is that there are a lot of assholes out there, and there's not much that can be done about it.
    • antares83, on 02/20/2008, -3/+5I totally support the changes. You simply can't give buyers and sellers exactly the same rights - if you do, then the buyers are inherently disadvantaged. The simple fact is that once a buyer has paid for their item, they are at the seller's mercy. The seller has everything they want, and nothing to lose save a few percentage points off their feedback rating. Meanwhile, from the start the buyer is in a position where they could end up out of pocket and with no item, or with a damaged, defective, or counterfeit, etc. item. This disadvantage to buyers is compounded when you have Power Sellers with thousands of feedback scores. An unhappy buyer's negative feedback will barely even put a dint in the seller's feedback rating, while the seller has the power to completely ruin the feedback ratings of hundreds of buyers a month if they choose to retaliate with negative feedback.

      As far as I'm concerned, as a buyer, as soon as I have paid for my item in full, I have completed my end of the bargain. There is no reason why I should be subject to negative feedback. The old feedback system was hurting sellers as well, at least the good, honest sellers anyway, and here's why - I have had many bad experiences making purchases on ebay, but you'd never know it from the feedback I leave. I and every other buyer out there is terrified of receiving retaliatory feedback. I seriously considered deleting my ebay account after I left neutral feedback for a seller who failed to live up to his promises and received my first negative ever in return. Countless other good buyers have sworn off ebay after similar experiences... and this means less business for sellers.

      If sellers are concerned about being bullied by deadbeat bidders, read the ebay announcement and you'll see that ebay is now going to REMOVE COMPLETELY (not just unrate) any feedback given by those who do not respond to Unpaid Item disputes - therefore nonpaying bidders are no longer a threat. As for the risk of a buyer leaving bad feedback for no reason at all, I can't see this happening more than once in a blue moon - the buyers have every incentive to build up their own feedback scores, so they'll still be motivated to leave good feedback where it is warranted in order to receive good feedback in return.

      One last point - the feedback system as it was, with equal rights for both buyers and sellers, rendered the feedback ratings almost completely meaningless. Other experienced buyers will know what I mean - even the worst sellers out there, as long as they sell enough volume, can maintain ridiculously high feedback ratings simply because their unsatisfied buyers know that it's not worth risking their own feedback ratings for a $20 item that turned out to be garbage. The result was that it was almost impossible for buyers, especially new ebay users, to distinguish between the good, honest sellers and the crooks hawking fake handbags and counterfeit clothing. I know this from experience after being scammed by a seller with 97% positive feedback. Now I know better than to purchase from sellers with anything less than 99%, but come on, a 2% split is simply inane! Obviously the old feedback system was doing an awful job of reflecting the true quality of a seller. The new feedback system may reduce all sellers' feedback ratings, but in the long run this system will actually benefit GOOD SELLERS because the bad sellers will actually receive the poor feedback ratings they deserve, and it will be easier for future buyers to distinguish between good and bad sellers.

      So, in conclusion, GOOD and HONEST ebay sellers should not fret! This new feedback system will bring more business because good buyers will bid with more confidence, while nonpaying bidders are even less of a threat than they were before. The new system will also help to weed out the bad sellers, which means less competition for good sellers. Happy ebaying to you all, from a buyer who will certainly ebay with more enthusiasm than before. :)
      • antares83, on 02/20/2008, -4/+0sorry, moderator please delete - didn't mean to write this as a reply
    • banmaster, on 02/20/2008, -2/+10Well then please tell me how on earth my feedback should be held hostage when my entire responsibility in any transaction (paying for the item) has been fulfilled!
      Why the ***** shouldn't sellers be made to leave feedback as soon as payment is received!? My part of the deal is FINISHED, and yet they hold my positive feedback hostage till I leave good feedback for them, even if the item doesn't turn up, is damaged or not as listed! How the ***** is that fair?
      • gda63378, on 02/23/2008, -1/+1I'm sick and tired of buyers thinking that once they pay that their obligation is 100% fulfilled. I disagree with that. Your FURTHER obligation is to also contact the seller if there is any sort of problem so as to give the seller a chance to rectify. Sellers are not perfect and do make mistakes. More and more I'm finding that buyers expect PERFECTION!! This is not an attainable goal, yet one that sellers more and more seem to be required to meet.

        I've NEVER left feedback as any sort of retaliation. I once received a neutral because USPS crushed the box and item was damaged. Buyer did buy insurance and I FULLY REFUNDED every dime she paid. She also agreed with me that I packed it extremely well. I left her a POSITIVE after I received the neutral. She was not aware that the feedback is for the SELLER and how he/she conducts business. I conduct business honorably! Give sellers a chance.

        Lastly, you want fair... well, how is the DTR rating fair when you get to rate the shipping speed when the seller has absolutely NO CONTROL over that aspect? My rating for that is 4.7 and I ship IMMEDIATELY after payment is made. I've done everything I can as quickly as humanly possible and I get dinged because USPS is slow?

        I'm sorry that you disagree, but eBay is a BUYER'S market where almost every policy is in their favor. I'm sick and tired of everyone somehow thinking that all sellers are bad while buyers are angels. I'm an AWESOME SELLER and my feedback reflects that. Why lump everyone together? I've bought AND sold on eBay. Yes, there are bad sellers, but I've deal with many more bad buyers.

        One last note... somebody said that sellers don't have to fear the negatives from nonpaying bidders because if they don't respond to the NPB, then the feedback is withdrawn. Well, there's the catch. All the buyer has to do is respond and SAY they're gonna pay. After that the feedback stays whether they paid or not. It's BS!!
  • corinsmith, on 02/20/2008, -7/+0I think the best way to break up the Ebay monopoly is to disassemble its pieces. For instance their reputation system. Because no one can ever take their reputations elsewhere, buyers/sellers are stuck being abused on their system.

    I'm working with a company called vBuddy.com, which has created a reputation system that isn't bundling ecommerce with reputations. You can be trading on any site, forum, via email, etc. and it works.

    If you guys are truly sick of Ebay's crap, perhpas you can check out our site and see if it works for you.
    • Hurricane, on 02/25/2008, -0/+1iOffer.com WILL let your transfer your ratings from eBay and other sites, now if they could just mature the website and database a little they might manage to compete against eBay.
  • Kokichi, on 02/20/2008, -1/+11Personally, I'm more willing to side with the buyers than the sellers. It's much more important for a seller's rating to be more accurate than it is a buyer's, and it's much more important to accurately be able to rate a seller than it is a buyer. If you're an honest seller, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. If you're dishonest, you do. Just make sure you don't buy from the ones that are boycotting - those are the ones that would rather have the "don't give me negative feedback else I'll neg feedback you" policy still in effect.
    • tctreasures, on 02/21/2008, -0/+0The below reply is for the last part of your statement, "Just make sure you don't buy from the ones that are boycotting - those are the ones that would rather have the "don't give me negative feedback else I'll neg feedback you" policy still in effect"


      No...that is not true. I have been a seller more than seven years and I pride myself on my customer service. I have received over 3,000 feedback with only 1 neg and a couple neutrals. I cannot even remember why the one customer left the neg, but I do remember giving her a full refund (including S/H)...and that was after I seen the feedback she left. I did so, because I wanted her to be happy with her purchase. I did not have to...the damage was already done to my perfect feedback and at that time, people use to pay basically by M/O or checks so I did not have to worry about a Paypal dispute and/or a charge-back.

      I am one of those sellers who support the boycott/strike for those who can do it because of many things, not just the feedback change, but that is a BIG issue as other sellers can contest to. It only takes a few customers to drive down your shipping DSR's (star ratings) just because they believe "all" shipping is too expensive...even when the the cost was right at or even below the actual cost that the seller paid to have it shipped. It happens more than you know and that in itself can cause a good and honest seller to fall way down in the search rankings and that is only a tiny example of why sellers are upset...there are many, many more variables at play than the average non-seller can see.

      Personally I do not believe the feedback system (past and present) is fair or reliable...it really never was and it probably never will be. I do not know the solution, but both the buyer and the seller deserve a safe place to trade, but unfortunately...the seller really is at a great disadvantage now more than ever and that too is not fair.

      I am one seller that can contest to the fact that you do not really understand the whole picture or you would not have posted the comments found in the last part of your statement.
  • 23101, on 02/20/2008, -6/+7People who think only sellers run scams are wrong.

    When you sell and use PayPal there are a lot of ways buyers can mess with you.

    1)They do chargebacks through the paypal system and end up keeping your stuff for free. It is a very common scam. Paypal doesn't do much about it because it doesn't cost THEM anything.

    2) Buyer uses a stolen credit card. As a seller paypal doesn't give you the information you need to screen payments and avoid this. Again PayPal doesn't care it YOU that are out your money and item not them. Under the new feedback a seller can't warn others about this.

    3) buyer use feedback as blackmail

    There are even more but I'll leave it at the ones that have happened to ME
    • banmaster, on 02/20/2008, -7/+2Stop scamming people and it WON'T happen to you!
      • 23101, on 02/20/2008, -2/+3That makes no sense. People commit identity theft to try to get my stuff for free and that means I scammed THEM? I don't think you understood my comment.
      • Azuvector, on 02/20/2008, -2/+2Are you kidding? Just recently, I was selling something on ebay, and the douche of a buyer took a week+ to pay up, and then started spamming me with "wtf mail it to me already!!!" emails. Replied that I had no intention of shipping anything anywhere until his payment cleared. Got no feedback at all, since feedback blackmail works both ways. The instant you introduce some random ***** into the picture, tada, you've got negative feedback unless you hold yours back.
    • RedReplicant, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1I'm not sure why you've been dugg down for your comment-- it's completely accurate.
  • JasonZX12R, on 02/20/2008, -2/+10I'm happy for this change. I cant tell you how many times Ive paid immedialy for a product and Ive gotten a wrong product or something that doesnt work and gave good feedback to avoid receiving bad feedback. Its just not worth 10-100$ to get a point of bad feedback, and then the next person who buys from them goes through the same mess, and the seller has 99-100% feedback. I say put the power in the hands of the buyers so you can actually see who the bad sellers are, and its not like they cant give bad feedback they just need a reason too now. I also like the new anonymous detailed feedback. I am always extremely fair and usually give a 4 or a 5 but when something is bad I can atleast reflect it there.
    • digitallysick, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Your forgetting about the bad buyers, that get the items and then try to scam you, after you, the seller left them good feedback for paying for the item
    • gda63378, on 02/23/2008, -0/+0You stated "usually give a 4 or a 5". Did you realize that eBay sees anything less than a 5 as being a worthless seller? I'm at a 4.7 for Shipping Time (my lowest rating and one eBay deems too low for any price breaks), yet I ship IMMEDIATELY and am rated for USPS/UPS transit times. How is this fair?
      • Hurricane, on 02/25/2008, -0/+1That is the catch, NOBODY can keep a 5 rating, thus NOBODY gets the price breaks.
        SCAM
  • kushin, on 02/20/2008, -2/+5In the past year, I have been scammed out of around 500$ on ebay which offsets and is probably more than any measly bucks that I saved on ebay, not to mention the time it takes to search and followup on auctions that are worth bidding for. The fact that they do not allow any third party payment systems shows the abuse of their monopolistic stance. I just hope there is someone else who can compete with ebay. Google are you hearing?
  • L0g1X, on 02/20/2008, -2/+7eBay favors their top sellers and let them get away with things such as high shipping prices. Back then I used to sell on ebay, my listings kept getting removed and I got suspended for overpricing shipping. I sold items for 1 cent and had $6 shipping; same as ebay's top seller, eforcity, except my shipping was $1 cheaper making the end cost $1 cheaper. When I asked why they were allowed to do it and I wasn't, they just linked me to some useless web pages. I emailed them a few copies of my shipping receipt indicating that only half is used for "handling" fee (ex. bubble envelope, printing, etc.) but they just ignored those.
    Still, top sellers like eforcity are continuing their 1 cent + high shipping practices while other sellers get their listings removed.
  • L0g1X, on 02/20/2008, -1/+0By the way, if you buy a lot of junk and want to avoid ebay, here are some online stores with free shipping that usually sell stuff for cheaper:
    - www.dealextreme.com
    - www.kaidomain.com
    - www.ledshoppe.com
    This post will probably look like a spam post, but it's not. If you know of any other websites, please list them.

    I used to sell stuff on ebay and just drop ship from one of these online stores. But now that they're so popular, I can't anymore so I might as well tell everyone :(
    • antares83, on 02/20/2008, -0/+0oops, sorry... replied to wrong comment
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