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Th!nk Ox: An Electric Car With Style and Smarts

gas2.org — "It can go from 0 to 60 miles per hour in 8.5 seconds, travel between 125 and 155 miles on a single charge, and its lithium-ion batteries can be charged to 80% capacity in less than an hour."

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  • thentro, on 06/23/2008, -1/+33It doesn't say how big the battery on the Ox is, but Tesla claims their sports car roadster runs for $.01 a mile if you use off-peak night time power to charge it.

    So to run my 28 mpg car to empty takes 350 miles and costs $50 to fill today
    If my car got 100 mpg it would cost $14

    If I charge the Ox at $.02 a mile - that's $7!


    • Duggan360, on 06/23/2008, -7/+1.....Cars go fast =]
    • swordedge, on 06/23/2008, -1/+5And if you put a solar Stirling engine charging station in the back yard, its $0. Stirling Engine cause I read somewhere that they are about twice as efficient as photovoltaics that are affordable. Both are ugly, unfortunately.
      • Ramble, on 06/23/2008, -0/+8There's something beautiful about a nicely designed engine, I wouldn't be ashamed to have a stirling engine in my garden.
        • Fubarepublic, on 06/24/2008, -0/+0If you recess it into the A framed roof of a house you wouldn't even notice it. Alternatively You could stack 6 on flat single car garage and then its only visible to your neighbor in the 2 story mini McMansion.

          I like the Idea of sterling engines working hard during the day, storing what they can and using the rest to write crap like this on digg while it costs me 0.

    • doctechnical, on 06/23/2008, -4/+22The Think web site goes into more details, they have several battery options available.

      Then I read the 200 Euro ($310 USD) monthly "mobility" fee. That covers mainenance of the batteries (which the company owns) and so forth but...

      $310/month on top of the cost of the car. That takes the bloom off the rose for me.
      • The_Red_Monkey, on 06/23/2008, -5/+16Thank you for reading it and showing us the string attached. What a joke. Pay for the car and then pay a monthly fee to run it, um that is pretty much what I spend on gas so its not worth it.
      • troye, on 06/23/2008, -3/+3...a mobility fee? Sounds strange to me - like "nickel and dime you" strange.
      • SubFuze, on 06/23/2008, -0/+23The full quote is as follows:

        "We estimate that the car will be sold at around EUR 20,000. In addition, Think offers the Mobility pack at EUR 200 per month, covering full service battery use, car insurance and electricity use."

        Based on that, it looks like the Mobility Fee is optional and covers more than just the batteries, including full maintenance service agreement, car insurance and electricity use.
      • YesImAChick, on 06/23/2008, -1/+2I wish I read this before digging.
      • inkyblue2, on 06/24/2008, -2/+2thanks for bringing this up. a lot of the US press coverage of that car omits any mention of this fee. i have yet to see any direct statement by the company or the press about whether that fee will follow that car to the US or whether they'll do something different here. i think that'll be a major factor in the success or failure of the think city.
        • inkyblue2, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1will my anonymous detractors please do me the courtesy of explaining your disagreement?
    • Pronoiac, on 06/24/2008, -0/+0The more you know...
  • crazymaster16, on 06/23/2008, -10/+1i am selling RC cars :)
    the article is good
  • Fangsinmybeard, on 06/23/2008, -4/+14I think cheaper cleaner power will win out over fossil fuels.
  • dougvfr750, on 06/23/2008, -0/+52This is EXACTLY what I want for a commute car to go back and forth to work. 2010... 2011... cmon, hurry up and get it out already.
  • ethornquist, on 06/23/2008, -1/+21I am 6' 4" - it looks like I could fit into it easily. Sold.
    • buba1243, on 06/23/2008, -0/+7That's what you get from Norwegian companies they have tall people up there so us tall people can drive them.
  • TheCarDude, on 06/23/2008, -2/+13that is a sexy electric car. I can't wait until there are more options from every automaker
    • br0ck, on 06/23/2008, -1/+4From a link on that same page, there are 30 electric cars now. If I had 80k, I'd definitely get the Fisker over anything else on that list though.. although the X-1 electric version of the Ariel Atom at the very bottom promises to be a show stopper too. http://venturebeat.com/2008/01/10/27-electric-cars ...
    • davidrools, on 06/23/2008, -0/+2sexy except for that rear window. wtf is that?
    • trofeo, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1Bury me all you want, but I hate it, looks awful to me. Take the roof line for example, what's sexy about that? it looks like a damn mpv, I hate mpv's!
  • asskicker32, on 06/23/2008, -2/+21I want one. Well, I really want a Tesla roadster, but this will do...
  • onehandhigh, on 06/23/2008, -2/+14If that makes it to market here in the US I will certainly consider buying one. More than likely though it will be bought out by GM and disappear.
    • Albumen, on 06/24/2008, -0/+4Dare I say that even the pinheads in Detroit must see the writing on the wall? I remember back in the 70's (***** off! I said the 70's I know, I'm old) my sister bought this xrappy foreign car called a Datsun 'cuz gas was so expensive. Whatever happened to that company. Just faded away I guess. /sarcasm
    • r00fus, on 06/24/2008, -0/+2GM only has so much money, and they're losing it fast.
      I doubt GM can do what (people allege) they did in years past.
    • AndreiOttawa, on 06/24/2008, -0/+2I think we reached a point when it's more profitable to go ahead, establish the company and start producing electric cars than just take a check from GM and shut up. The market for gas-powered cars will be shrinking each year opening more potential for alternative vehicles.
      • onehandhigh, on 06/27/2008, -0/+0I have no doubt we've reached a critical point but do you believe the major Automakers are going to allow an upstart to control the market direction? That's what fat checks and/or hostile takeovers are for. I'm cynical to a fault, I know, but I'm tired of getting my hopes up for these super advances that are just around the corner only to have them vaporize into the air.

        Where the crap is my friggin jet car?!?
  • Shiftgood, on 06/23/2008, -2/+9This is the first electric car thats got me really excited.

    this for every day, and a db9 for going out. perfect? perfect.
    • jabberwolf, on 06/24/2008, -1/+1You're really excited about going 45-50 miles per hour?
      • funkyjunk3, on 06/24/2008, -0/+2Actually, yes. While I'm peddling along in the right lane watching hummers and Ferraris zoom by me on the left, I'd be snickering to myself at how much they're paying compared to me at the pump, ZERO! I'd just plug the thing it at night, get up and go to work, come home, plug it back in. etc while they're cussing Jesus about gas sticker shock.

        I would rather have a car that does the speed limit and runs 125+miles on electricity than some guzzlin' sports car that costs me a fortune in gas.
  • cdemi, on 06/23/2008, -3/+10Thoroughly Recommended A++++
  • digits12, on 06/23/2008, -3/+7Really Beautiful Car
  • D4N747, on 06/23/2008, -1/+6This is really quite an interesting car, well thought out, well designed, good looking, spacious, includes all the accustomed features of the typical automobile today and goes roughly 100 miles on an hours' charge! I'm sold already!
  • DamonClifford, on 06/23/2008, -2/+14The solar panels on the roof to power the electronics is an awesome idea!
    • Dumbledorito, on 06/23/2008, -1/+7I always wondered why that wasn't a feature on a lot of these cars.

      Perhaps those "printable" photovoltaics are helping move things along?
      • TheLoneHoot, on 06/23/2008, -0/+3I hope they have a thick piece of polycarbonate plastic over them, it'd suck to have a good hailstorm take 'em out.

        On the other hand manufacturing polycarbonate plastic is extremely toxic and very detrimental to the environment.
  • wrenchone, on 06/23/2008, -3/+9And no mention of price. The other car this company sells, the TH!NK city, is a two seat city car that costs $25,000 or twice what a traditional city car would cost. If the Ox sells for under $40,000 I would be very surprised. Unless you can make an electric car with the same features as a tradition car, and have it cost the same as its tradition equivalent, people won't buy it.

    And seriously, loose the name. Ox? Come on.
    • bjornski, on 06/24/2008, -1/+2It's no sillier than American car names.
    • mistawac, on 06/24/2008, -1/+6I'm with bjornski. All I have to say is Ford Probe. Then if you're going to complain about Ox - Dodge Ram and Ford Mustang...
  • ElRaval, on 06/23/2008, -1/+5Nice lookin' wheels. Not fugly like the prius.
  • SpinStar, on 06/23/2008, -4/+4This is great...but until we can generate cleaner electricity, I don't know how much of an impact this can have. Does anyone else wonder if a spike in the demand for electricity would cause prices to rise at the same rate as oil? I think this car would be great for a home that is off the grid.
    • glucoseboy, on 06/23/2008, -1/+6Electricity that's generated at the plant is cheaper and cleaner. Every electric car that's on the road means less need to use oil for transportation, hence more supply available for electricity production. Remember electricity production via fossil fuels from dirtiest to clean runs Coal, oil, natural gas. Every bit we can move away from coal helps the overall climate-change picture.
    • Andysan, on 06/24/2008, -2/+2Since the current electrical power grid is always on the verge of overload, shouldn't we be concerned about the effect of several million electric cars. A few extra air conditioners on a hot day can cause brownouts with today's system. The cost of upgrading the distribution system will be significant and nobody is talking about that. Reducing the use of gasoline has little relationship to overloaded and sagging power lines.

      Also, when the electricity is out for a few days due to ice, snow, floods, or whatever, just imagine how screwed you will be if an electric car is your only transportation.
      • tushyd, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1Andysan, you're forgetting that people will have the ability to generate their own electricity. This can happen via solar panels, wind turbines, and if in a true emergency, diesel generators.

        Decentralized.
  • Jimgress, on 06/23/2008, -6/+2Style? I'm sorry but anything named the Ox will probably forgo any real style for aerodynamic efficiency. If that's your thing cool, but don't confuse it with good looks.
  • spyd3rweb, on 06/23/2008, -3/+1Why not just go back to using oxen, no electricity or gas required.
    • davidrools, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1they actually produce a certain type of gas ;)
    • tushyd, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1Figure out how to grow oxen that can go 0-60 in 8.5 seconds and I'll buy one real fast
  • xieodeluxed, on 06/23/2008, -0/+5I really wish we would actually be able to buy something like this... car companies have been baiting us for years! at least gas prices are high enough now that people are starting to wake up
  • frequentFlyer, on 06/23/2008, -1/+2I'll take two. Really.
  • synik, on 06/23/2008, -1/+3Finally, an electric car that I would buy!

    Not much chance of it being released in Australia though :(
  • PSotter, on 06/23/2008, -2/+2Awwwwwwww snap. Now I feel foolish for putting my name on the 6-12 month waiting list for the Smartcar.
    • bjornski, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1You signed up for a Smart?

      What was the final sticker price? I'm curious. I think they're cute as heck.

      I'd certainly drive one.
      • PSotter, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1They run about 12K with A/C but no power windows. I drive an obscene 110 mi/day. I average 28mpg with my chevy HHR. Smartcar: 60mpg.
        • bjornski, on 06/25/2008, -0/+1Sweet. I hope you keep us posted with updates after you take delivery.
  • yayster, on 06/23/2008, -2/+70x would have been a cooler name.
  • markdofunt, on 06/23/2008, -7/+2I mean its cool and everything but electric cars still require recharging. The power for that comes from burning coal, so the environmental advantage is...
    • The_Red_Monkey, on 06/23/2008, -1/+4That's why we need to use nuke power. The waste from a nuke plant for each person over their lifetime will fill a can of Coke. The output from a coal plant per day is 10,000 tons of waste.
    • carolinax, on 06/23/2008, -1/+2electric and battery = no gas usage, no dependence on foreign oil, greater reserve, etc

      in the end, you have a point. but AT THE VERY LEAST there is less consumption of fossil fuels and carbon emissions per car.

      but...yeah.
    • championchap, on 06/23/2008, -1/+6Not all electricity comes from the burning of coal.
      You could switch to green power, just wind turbines and the like.. the more people that choose to switch to it the more demand there will be and the more customers they wil be able to support.
      Good ***** if you ask me.
    • solboldi, on 06/23/2008, -1/+5solar....hydro...there are alternatives.

    • DirtyBinLV, on 06/23/2008, -0/+3West of the Mississippi, we use more natural gas and hydro power than coal. Natural gas is a fossil fuel, but it's a lot cleaner than coal and it's mostly domesticly produced.

    • pkulak, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1http://www.reddit.com/info/6jys4/comments/c042c24
    • apeweek, on 06/24/2008, -0/+2Coal doesn't matter. EVs are far more efficient. More miles on less fuel = less pollution, regardless of what gets burned to make electricity.

      Coal is only used for half the electricity generated, anyway,which further reduces the amount of pollution generated. And the grid is getting cleaner all the time.

    • Recidivus, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1Why burn it when you can just make it into Syngas and burn that?
    • tushyd, on 06/24/2008, -0/+2Also EV's are infinitely adaptable. No matter what method you use to create electricity, they will be able to charge. So you can keep building steps towareds cleaner and cleaner sources...
      • AndreiOttawa, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1Excellent point. No more octane crap and price that comes with high-octane gas.
  • boeingdrew, on 06/23/2008, -6/+2Style? really, where?

    first of all it looks ridiculous with the tuxedo paint job. second of all it looks like a prius.
    • TheLoneHoot, on 06/24/2008, -0/+2Design us a better one then, Alphonse. Tout de suite!
    • boeingdrew, on 06/24/2008, -1/+0The functionality of the car is awesome. No one is denying that. I was criticizing the title of the article which claimed it had "style", which clearly it does not.

      Do you think it's an attractive car? Or do you think that saying it has style is an overstatement? Maybe I'm not a fan of a glass trunk, prius headlights, tuxedo paintjobs, and a boxy design.
  • glucoseboy, on 06/23/2008, -1/+3Looks good. Fits my needs for size and range. 2010 is going to be a very interesting year when a bunch of lithium-ion-powered cars hits the market.

    Bring it!
    • secrity, on 06/23/2008, -0/+2We'll see what actually becomes available 2010.
    • frequentFlyer, on 06/23/2008, -1/+0Looks good. Very interesting when a bunch of lithium-ion-powered cars hit each other and electrocute their drivers.
  • WhiteNoise, on 06/23/2008, -0/+3Looks great and I would love to make it my second car, but where do I get it serviced if there is a problem?
    • r00fus, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1That's why they have a $200/mo service/insurance plan. It's like what you can get for a BMW, with the prepaid maintenance plan.
      • secrity, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1My car payment for a 2007 Focus isn't much more than $200/mo and I doubt that it is going to cost me anywhere near $2.400 a year in matintenace, especially since I have a 100,000 mile Ford extended warranty.

        $200 @ $5/gal = 40 gallons @ 20 MPG = 800 miles. I average less than 800 miles a month and I average more than 20 MPG.
        • r00fus, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1This car doesn't sound economical for you, then.
          Props to your Focus btw... it's nice that Ford built a PZEV capable car.
    • leakus, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1It should use a lot less service since there are much less moving parts in an EV.
  • Zimarooski, on 06/23/2008, -3/+5What about the GM EV-1?
  • chmoder, on 06/23/2008, -1/+2I dont think this will be cheep but I think it will be everything anyone could want in a car. solar, gps, etc. Then I checked. 25,000! Digg!
  • secrity, on 06/23/2008, -4/+2"Due out ...." Another whiz bang car that we have probably seen the last of.
    • Shiftgood, on 06/23/2008, -0/+5if you check, the company already has a car out, this is their second.
      • secrity, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1It would be great if this car were to be available to the mass market in 2009, but we will see if it happens.

        The Think City car is available only in Europe. There are a large number of energy efficient cars sold in Europe that will not meet US safety requirements.

        There is a rather high entry barrier in the US because of the EPA and safety requirements. I understaand that Think NA has some solid financial backing, this is a big plus and an electric car company probably doesn't have to worry about the EPA.. The biggest hurdle will be the the safety requirements, and this is what adds significant weight and cost to new cars sold in the US.

        Of all of the electric cars I have heard of, this one seems to have a better chance of success than the others. The biggest market advantages it has is that it looks like a car and it might be sold at a reasonble price.


  • solboldi, on 06/23/2008, -2/+2coolsville.
  • emanuel2, on 06/23/2008, -1/+5Great car, got me all excited until I saw the $310/monthly "Mobility Pack" fee on the company's website (http://www.think.no/think/content/view/full/264).
    • glucoseboy, on 06/23/2008, -0/+7Full service, full battery replacement, plus carbon offset, insurance (??? really, car insurance too?), Pricey but not unreasonable.
      • quietamerican, on 06/24/2008, -0/+2Especially if you're in a country where the electricity is included. I.e., free "fuel." That could add up to $100 or more quickly if you don't always charge at the lowest rate... depending on your commute.
    • bman85, on 06/23/2008, -0/+2Oooh nice find... that does hurt, that's another car payment right there... I'd rather just own the batterys i think.
      • bjornski, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1Maybe in a few years, when batteries are refined even more.

        But for now? Heck yeah, a full insurance package on an expensive battery setup? If it starts fading, call 'em and have a new one set up!

        Covers the cost of new, disposal of old, and guarantees top performance between the changes? Not a bad deal, really. It's not something many Joe-Sixpacks would sign up for, but it will come down. Get a few other companies offering the same thing, let 'em compete for lowest price, and you'll see the costs drop a lot.

        Hello! Ford! Are you listening?
        • doctechnical, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1Yeah, they're listening to Joe Sixpack (their customer base) laugh. That $310/mo surcharge would probably pay for most (if not all) of the gas Joe's not buying, and on top of that Joe get a huge hit in his electric bill.

          This is a vehicle for well-heeled environmentalists. They're not going to sell that many of them outside of LA.
        • bjornski, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1Right. And if they catch on there, there will be more.
    • aelias, on 06/24/2008, -0/+2This is an option. You don't have to take it.
      • doctechnical, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1And if you don't you get to pay full bill on replacing the battery packs when they (inevitably) go dead, so it's a case of pay me now or pay me later. The key word is "pay".
        • UrbanVoyeur, on 06/24/2008, -0/+3"And if you don't you get to pay full bill on replacing the battery packs when they (inevitably) go dead, so it's a case of pay me now or pay me later. The key word is "pay"."

          I'm sorry, you know of a free car somewhere?
        • Darkangel754, on 06/24/2008, -0/+0Even if it did end up costing the same as a gas car it's still better for the environment than a gas car.
  • carolinax, on 06/23/2008, -3/+1looks awesome to me! cheap power ftw :D

    my buick century fills up at 70 dollar, a week and i commute in total around 40km every day :( gas only lasts me 1 week if i only go from home to school and back again. -_-

    it didn't say how much the Ox would cost?
    • bman85, on 06/23/2008, -1/+2It said it is being sold in Europe for around US $25000
    • tushyd, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1no, it said the model they already have out, the City is being sold for $25,000. They didn't release a price point for the Ox
      • bman85, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1Oh, i stand corrected. I assume it would be a similar price?
      • tushyd, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1It might be, but the Ox has solar panels, so I'm guessing it would be a step up
  • pjpark, on 06/23/2008, -6/+1I don't think you posted the right link. I kept looking for style but all I could see was some ugly dead-fish looking thing.
    • TheLoneHoot, on 06/24/2008, -0/+2Well I guess it's not worth it then. Okay fellas, back the truck on in here, PJ thinks it's ugly, and we all know his taste speaks for the world.
  • sunsdevils, on 06/23/2008, -2/+5No big deal, GM had already announced that something similar to come out by 2099.
    • bman85, on 06/23/2008, -1/+2LOL thats what i was thinking, and it will be lease only for 900$ per month.
  • frequentFlyer, on 06/23/2008, -0/+1I'll take two. Really.
  • l800LEMMINGS, on 06/23/2008, -0/+7this is what we need, not some hydrogen power car that they can keep on raping us to fuel up, good work th!nk
  • bman85, on 06/23/2008, -0/+4I like this car alot. these are the kind that we need to develop, not hybrids that still sustain our dependency on gas.

    I love the solar panel on top too, why on earth wouldn't you do this for an electric car?
    • KingCritter, on 06/24/2008, -0/+2The Aptera has one, too: http://www.aptera.com/
      • bman85, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1yeah but its ridiculous looking... i wouldn't drive that thing.
    • SatansSpatula, on 06/24/2008, -0/+2Because the roof of a car is a very small surface area given the efficiency of solar cells and the relative demands of automotive systems. I think this article's claim that climate control could be powered by rooftop solar cells is ridiculous,
      • bman85, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1Ive messed with solar cells before, and it might be pushing it a little, but i think it might be possible.

        And I figure they wouldn't be powering the climate control independently but just gathering power and adding it into the overall system, which might, on average, offset the energy used for climate control.
  • shadowmoose, on 06/23/2008, -8/+10 to 60 in 8.5 seconds? I know of some very unforgiving on ramps to highways. I'd have to think twice about getting a car like that.
    • MacintoshMan, on 06/23/2008, -0/+5suburban does it in 9 so quit bitching
    • TheLoneHoot, on 06/24/2008, -1/+38.5 is pretty average
    • Norumeni, on 06/24/2008, -0/+0I drive a 1971 Beetle, and that probably has less get up and go than that, and I have no problems getting on the freeway, which is where I do the majority of my driving. You're probably comparing it to all that "0-60 in 3secs" that most luxury/sport cars have, which is ridiculously fast; have you ever ridden in a car like that? I highly recommend it because it's really fun, though not necessary for normal driving.
  • Barackalypse, on 06/23/2008, -6/+1Non-available product and no cost listed = bury. Wake me up when I can buy it or at least pre-order it.
    • TheLoneHoot, on 06/24/2008, -0/+3Yes, we definitely don't need to know about any new products coming out in the next couple of years. And we surely don't want to make any guesses about cost based on:

      "...its first vehicle, the City, is already being sold in Europe for around US $25,000. Think is on track to sell about 10,000 of them there this year."

      Oh remind us not to update you on any tech/PC/science/gaming news either, since a lot of that is based on speculation, some of it almost as realistic as this article.
  • Administrators, on 06/23/2008, -0/+3Couldn't you use a solar panel to save the energy and use it later that night? from home or work or both?
    I know that in Arizona, they mandated that 20% of all corporate fleet vehicles must use an alternative fuel by 2010, so it may be incentivized at that level as well. Or at least as far as providing resources for charging.
  • MacintoshMan, on 06/24/2008, -0/+2I saw that on thing on Piuma rd in malibu CA this past monday at around 3:00... I swear. me and my friend were like I dont think smart makes a 4 door... and it looked just like that. Soo i guess there are sum out there
  • SilverBlade2k, on 06/24/2008, -0/+5When will this car come to Canada?
  • allaboutdatiki, on 06/24/2008, -1/+4And to think that Think was a Ford company at one point ... d'oh!
  • Tribunis, on 06/24/2008, -1/+2If only BMW or Mercedes would build hybrids...
  • bleutuna, on 06/24/2008, -2/+1o_O

    That's pretty ugly :

    Edit: Damn - the more I look at it, the more I like it. The front and back, particularly, though I'm not a fan of the profile. Looks like a mini-van.

    The specs are superb.
  • caliky, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1How about a photo? Why is every messiah car just a stupid render...
  • viveknarain, on 06/24/2008, -0/+3I believe they had a documentary on this car on PBS showing how carbon body panels reduce the cost of manufacturing (if done on a large scale) and increase efficiency. Great to see innovation at work.
  • bleutuna, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1!! Wait, does this mean Th!nk has already won that prize John McCain announced earlier today :p
  • IronDonut, on 06/24/2008, -1/+1Anyone know how many miles per KWH this car will go? (I guess thats the eff metric you'd use for an electric car?)

    Here is my eff calculation of the Tesla Roadster;

    100 miles = 2 hour charge

    70 amps @ 220volts = 15.4KW

    15.4KW x 2 hours = 30.8KWH

    100mi / 30.8KWH = 3.24mi / KWH or about $.03 per mile @ .10 cents per KWH

    Energy Comparison; KWH = 3412btu / 1gal gas = 114500btu

    Tesla = 1050btu per mile
    30mpg gas car = 3816btu per mile

    Here is the problem which no one in the green movement ever talks about eletrical generation efficiency is actually pretty terrible. For 1KW=3412btu of eletrical energy output the average US power plant has 10,000btu of heat input. So if you factor in the actual amount of heat generated at the source the Tesla looks a lot worse;

    Tesla @ 10,000btu coal burnt per KWH = 3086btu per mile (when you factor in electrical transmission losses it's even worse)

    The reality is that an electric/battery powered of similar size will have a more negative environmental impact as a gas powered car;

    Coal = 24.8M/btu per ton.

    Tesla = .25lb coal per mile (24.8M/btu/ton @ 10,000btu per KWH)
    Tesla = 7.46lb coal per 30 miles

    Does anyone think it's more environmentally sound to burn 7.5lbs of coal vs 1 gallon of gasoline? Gasoline is much cleaner.

    There are no free lunches. These electric cars are environmental fraud.
    • scoottie, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1electric cars are not the best answer but they are a short term answer for $10 a gallon for gas. i really dont care if my electric source is burning more coal if its saving me $100+ a week
    • chegel3818, on 07/13/2008, -0/+0the electricity can be generated from nuclear, solar, wind, coal, oil and other sources. My gasoline car can run only on oil. Coal burning plant can have effective carbon and NOx cleaning technology installed, my car pollutes the air when it works in open cycle (first 5 min while engine warms up).
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