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LucasArts and BioWare building KOTOR MMO

joystiq.com — EA boss John Riccitiello finally spilled the beans on the long-rumored Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic MMO.

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  • djtyrant, on 07/17/2008, -4/+64Please oh please be true!
    • ericrous, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1I think I just had an orgasm.
    • Recluse, on 08/06/2008, -0/+1Please oh please be false! I don't want this to be an MMO.
  • didd, on 07/17/2008, -24/+3Witty comment
  • D3NNIS, on 07/17/2008, -2/+113Where's KOTOR 3?
    • Inohavehalos, on 07/17/2008, -7/+41Kotor 2 wasn't good enough for a sequel

      But Kotor 1 certainly deserved a trilogy
      • crowbar77, on 07/17/2008, -1/+40Kotor 2 wasn't made by bioware though either...
      • Inohavehalos, on 07/17/2008, -1/+19Good point
      • sofunnyithurts, on 07/17/2008, -0/+37kotor 1 was ***** epic
      • JigoroKano, on 07/18/2008, -2/+5KOTOR 2 was never even finished.

        They must have spend 3 minutes on the ending. Obsidian did the same damn thing with NWN2 also.
        Everything Bioware creates, they half-ass in the sequel.
    • Avaseal, on 07/18/2008, -1/+8So will this essentially be Star Wars Galaxies 2?
      • Kanten, on 07/18/2008, -2/+10Yes, only it's published by EA so it'll be even more of a disappointment.
      • petraska, on 07/18/2008, -0/+6Is that even possible?
      • ericrous, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1Don't even JOKE about that!
  • matthew26, on 07/17/2008, -15/+1OH WOW! Time to wield a lightsaber, KOTOR style!
  • baron42, on 07/17/2008, -22/+180Dear LucasArts,

    ***** you! Instead of looking froward to a KOTOR 3 which a detailed storyline and characters, I can look forward to constant tedious quests with emotionless NPCs.
    • iofthestorm, on 07/17/2008, -13/+56Seriously, although I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic since it's BioWare, I would rather they did a regular RPG. MMOs are the bane of PC gaming (yet at the same time, its last lifeline).
      • Maynza, on 07/17/2008, -13/+39That last sentence is absolute bull. MMO's are great, generic POS mmo's suck. And MMO's are pc gamings last lifeline? Give me a break.
      • scubaman5000, on 07/17/2008, -0/+25I wonder how that lifeline is going to look when SC2 and D3 are released.
      • Jadix, on 07/17/2008, -0/+23Most MMOs do suck, but PC gaming will never die.
      • savethejets, on 07/17/2008, -3/+7PC Gaming, Rock and Roll, and Paris Hilton. 3 Things that will never Die, despite your best efforts.
      • str1fe, on 07/18/2008, -1/+4@scubaman:

        Let's not forget Spore
      • jermm, on 07/18/2008, -3/+2When the first MMOFPS that doesn't suck comes out...the world might just end.
      • Ultra42, on 07/18/2008, -0/+3Last lifeline? Playing a FPS or a RTS on a console is a crime....
    • focom, on 07/17/2008, -9/+12I really wish Bioware would stick to what they're good at (singleplayer rpgs) instead of wasting their efforts jumping on the WoW-killer bandwagon... you're just fooling yourself if you think any subscription-based MMO is going to come close to competing with WoW.
      • ShakeWell, on 07/18/2008, -1/+12Just because I can never be as rich as Bill Gates, I should stop trying to make money, right?

        The game doesn't have to be a WoW-killer to be a successful and good game.
      • Daz3, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2WoW - killer bandwagon? Not every MMORPG is jumping on the WoW-Killer bandwagon (if there even is such a thing). There were successful MMORPGs before WoW and there will be more successful MMORPGs after WoW is dead and buried.
    • MonkeyFarts, on 07/18/2008, -0/+17They very well COULD change that and make an MMO that's also a true RPG for once, with an engrossing story line, powerful characters, and a rich setting. Maybe they could even alter the story a little bit depending on what class and race you choose so that it's unique every time you play through.

      But, they probably won't. They're probably going to stick to the generic MMO formula, despite how "revolutionary" they *will* say it will be.
      • BlaenkDenum, on 07/19/2008, -0/+1Imagine KOTOR 1 but Co-Op, you form guilds or some thing (Not a big MMO fan, so don't know the correct terms), with which you play through the game itself. That would be awesome. Or I don't know, something to that effect :/
    • smashingmonkey, on 07/18/2008, -4/+4***** EA and ***** everybody who plays those damn inane MMORPGs for creating a market strong enough to hijack one of the greatest videogame franchises. Even if Bioware manages to include a great story, somehow I expect those great story moments to be ruined by squawking teenage halfwits.
    • fatjoe, on 07/18/2008, -4/+1dear baron42

      thank you for your thoughtful letter. we have taken your opinion on board and after carefull consideration have dismissed it as "not in the best interests" of LucasArts

      Thanks again

      G.L.
    • sarchosis, on 07/18/2008, -3/+1Right, because BIoware would be incapable of innovation and would be forced to use a derivative MMO template for their game.
    • Recluse, on 08/06/2008, -0/+1baron42: I'll sign your letter too.
  • mercaz, on 07/17/2008, -8/+25Yes!! The only MMO that I may break my "no MMO's" rule to play.

    Dang, and I had been clean for a year and a half after breaking the WoW-habit... :(
  • acevoncash, on 07/17/2008, -17/+51fap fap fap fap fap fap
  • Coven, on 07/17/2008, -7/+107If SOE gets involved I'm going to have to choke a bitch...
    • jscozzari, on 07/17/2008, -1/+24if LucasArts gets involved I'M gonna have to...oh wait...*****
    • Evolutuon, on 07/17/2008, -1/+21If SOE gets involved I'm going to have to choke a Smedly.
    • Vvolf, on 07/17/2008, -16/+5Another poor soul who still blames SOE for SWG even though it was more of Lucas Arts that caused the change in the game...
      • CaptZomborg, on 07/18/2008, -2/+2SOE changed the SWG dev team too much. that's why it was filled with bugs and misdirection. It was noticeable when the same (and skilled) team was working on the game for a longer period of time.
    • Xocide, on 07/17/2008, -3/+23SOE = Sh*tting On Everyone
    • dmanmax99, on 07/17/2008, -3/+16The Combat upgrade was 100% SOE because the original dev team left SOE and the new guys didn't know how to work with that system, The NGE came about from Lucasarts and SOE because the CU was such a *****.

      I actually got something in my email box about a free month in SWG, and when I played it I was sad to see how empty and terrible it was. About 27 people on my friends list and only 1 on.
      • CaptZomborg, on 07/18/2008, -0/+3CU good. NGE bad. (just my opinion)
    • dirtmonkey, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1just let blizzard release it and make everyone happy....or CCP
    • AriaGloris, on 07/18/2008, -0/+4SOE had the Star Wars IP taken away from them.

      SOE will not be involved at all.
  • petebot, on 07/17/2008, -5/+29This just may be the first MMO this meatbag plays...
    • greencoat, on 07/18/2008, -0/+4meatbag! oh god. I'm quitting my job for this thing. Do you think they will have skilltapes?!
  • VigRoco, on 07/17/2008, -2/+33I think that I am with baron42. Where is KOTOR 3 and why not KOTOR3 before this?
  • SantaDuJuan, on 07/17/2008, -7/+29UPDATE from Joystiq: We've just spoken with N. Evan Van Zelfden, the writer of the report, who told us that when asked specifically if this game was "KOTOR Online", Riccitiello responded unequivocally, "Yes."

    So we can rejoice!
    • SushiCW, on 07/17/2008, -0/+18Or mourn.
    • Xondar, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1The writer of the report said that the report he wrote is true! Therefor, it must be true!!!
  • Sparky20k, on 07/17/2008, -1/+63I really hope they keep the MMO plot-centric, I'd really hate for a KOTOR game where I'm forced to grind so much that I lose sight of the plot.
    • nunofgs, on 07/17/2008, -1/+25So you want story-driven gameplay in an MMO? Sorry to disappoint, but what you really want is KOTOR3.
      • SoulGrub, on 07/18/2008, -1/+6Actually wow did have a lot of good storylines embedded amidst the hundred of hours needed to enjoy them. Lotro did pretty well in this area also without having to spend as many hours, plus it also had a lot of scripted scenes and even some basic cinematics to go with it.
  • deknoob, on 07/17/2008, -7/+2The game is called Star Wars The Old Republic (TOR), so it's safe to assume it will not be 100% centered around Jedi and Sith.
    • completerobot, on 07/17/2008, -5/+1That sentence just doesn't make any sense.
      • jscozzari, on 07/17/2008, -0/+5ya if they can put jedi into an mmo set in a time were there was hardly any jedi, you don't think they can stuff a bunch of jedi into a mmo set in a time were there was?
      • paradigmx, on 07/17/2008, -7/+2Jedis need to be like a prestige class, once you get a charactor to X level and complete Y "quest", then you can create a Jedi
      • jscozzari, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1all that does is delay things...unless there is a server cap
      • Oea420, on 07/17/2008, -1/+3You'd have to think of something much more clever to include jedi as a playable class.

        It's really one of the hardest things you can do in an MMO successfully.... create You can do whatr paradigmx said.. and every single person will eventually have a jedi..

        You can make it a requirement that 40, 100, etc amount of other people have to help you become a jedi.. which in my opinion is the best option. I know people hate the large raid mentality, but the quest would have to involve the efforts of a lot of people and be exceedingly difficult.. That is if the Jedi class is more powerful than the others.

        if not, then you just ruined the game anyways.. it's so tricky, just leave the damn class out imo
      • paradigmx, on 07/18/2008, -0/+3another possibility is that everyone gets 1 Jedi/Sith, no alts can be force-sensitive. 9/10 MMO players have 1 account, and once their jedi is capped they'll be more interested in playing a Bounty Hunter or something.

        Alternately, at charactor creation a random seed is generated, a single number between 1 and 10 million or something, if you get it, your charactor is force sensitive, if not, you can either keep rolling charactors until you get one, or just roll another class. It would have to be a chance so low it would take far too long to try that people would just play what they got. If you did make it a lower number, the force sensetive nature of your charactor wouldn't become apparent until level 10 or 20, something that would force you to use the charactor to find out if it could become a Jedi

        one thing is for sure, this is one MMO where I feel that a class NEEDS to be OP, Jedi and Sith should be in a class of their own, a level 20 Jedi should be able to kill a Bounty Hunter nearly twice its level, otherwise a Jedi would be a pointless waste of time if joe smuggler could kick his ass
  • BigManOnCampus, on 07/17/2008, -10/+5Electronic Arts is doing it? That means it will suck.
    • paradigmx, on 07/17/2008, -3/+2Bioware is doing it, and even though Bioware is now owned by EA, EA has given them free reign over how they are run internally due to the fact that Bioware doesn't know how to make a bad game(seriously, list 1 game Bioware has made that flat sucks, do it, I dare you, even their first couple games where fun and bug-free)

      Henceforth, this game will absolutely kick ass
      • KaiUno, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1So true. After one disappointment after another when it comes to MMO's, Bioware is coming to the rescue.
      • BigManOnCampus, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1This is an old story.

        Badass game making company builds reputation.
        Electronic Arts purchases it.
        EA promptly announces a grand project that newly acquired company will have free reign over.
        EA overmarkets said game.
        Corporate meddling pervades newly acquired company as the culture of EA infests the new acquisition.
        The game ends up sucking.
        1-2 titles later, the newly acquired company ends up being a brand-name only as all it's original employees jump ship.
  • Wiinii, on 07/17/2008, -7/+3For console, or PC, or?
    • Mykal73, on 07/17/2008, -2/+13How many console MMOs are there?
      • PleaseJustDie, on 07/17/2008, -3/+5Final Fantasy XI is available on PS2 and Xbox360...
      • bagelmaster, on 07/17/2008, -3/+7And the total goes to one!
      • KaiUno, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2Age of Conan is on its way.
      • Lith25, on 07/18/2008, -0/+5I know there is an Everquest MMO for ps2...don't know how populated it is anymore, but it exists.
      • soupdawg30, on 07/18/2008, -0/+3DC Online, The Agency both on the way.
    • paradigmx, on 07/17/2008, -0/+7big money's on PC, but i wouldn't rule out Console, that's where the KOTOR series made its mark, and If its on console, i would put money on 360, possibly exclusive to 360 and Windows
      • JigoroKano, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1Before Bioware hooked up with EA, I would have said without a doubt PC, maybe 360, but definitely not PS3.
        With EA though, if it comes to the 360 then it will likely come to the PS3 as well (port quality aside). One also has to take into account all the 360's without a harddrive that can't run any MMORPG.
    • ericrous, on 07/18/2008, -2/+1If it's PC-only, I'm going to have to go off on some *****!
      • danisth, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1I would say assume pc only, 360 is a distant hope.
      • ericrous, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1If it's PC-only, it's a great big "So what?" I'll put it in the pile with all the other MMORPG's and would-be WoW-killers (it can sit right next to Star Wars Galaxies).
        .
        The first company to do a decent *CONSOLE* RPG, and do it right, will essentially be able to corner the market. They could end up making the kind of money that would make Blizzard cry like a schoolgirl.
    • Wiinii, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1That's why I asked the question, it's a tough one.

      MMO's are PC games.

      KOTOR's are console games.

      So what is this hybrid going to be?
      • mojoface, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1KOTOR was released on PC first duh
      • ericrous, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1Actually, it was released on the Xbox about 4 months before it was ported to the PC. Duh
  • Borgcube636, on 07/17/2008, -10/+26I sense a great disturbance in the force... as if a million gamers cried out in orgasm, and WoW was suddenly silenced...
    • ender7074, on 07/17/2008, -0/+10Not likey. Galaxies only had 250k subs at the height of its popularity. Keep in mind, that was in the first month or so before we all found out what a pig it really was.
      • paradigmx, on 07/17/2008, -0/+16Galaxies did it wrong, they put gamers into a world that was already well known and you felt wrong being there. On top of that, they couldn't decide what kind of MMO it was, so they did a little of everything and failed at everything.

        KOTOR is set long before the 6 movies and 99% of the books, so it's a relatively unexplored universe and you can give a player the flexibility to really take a charactor to its limits
      • Morkhon, on 07/17/2008, -4/+0SWG had 650k subs at one point.
      • purplesawdust, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3But we aren't talking about Galaxies right now are we? Just because it is a MMO based on the star wars universe doesn't mean you can just compare the popularity of what was and what will be?
      • Clad, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html Sadly it only got up to about 300k
    • Jadix, on 07/17/2008, -6/+7...and then Blizzard announces Galaxy of Starcraft and every PC gamer's head esplodes.
    • Chris1280, on 07/18/2008, -2/+2Pff silence no more. Every MMO sucks apart from WoW. Sad but ture. I have no expectations other than galaxies 2.
      • soupdawg30, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1You have to at least give it a chance. They just announced and already people are putting it down.
      • phoenixshard, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1Ever played any of those other MMO's, or are you just a WOW fanboy?
    • Spudster, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1Keep in mind the market is getting crowded now that Age of Conan and soon Warhammer Online are coming.
  • KittySpark1es, on 07/17/2008, -1/+68Please redeem Star Wars Galaxies.
    • Brownds, on 07/17/2008, -7/+8Srsly. That game was great till SOE f00ked it up.
  • Gunsotsu, on 07/17/2008, -2/+110A letter to LucasArts on behalf of all KOTOR fans:

    Dear LucasArts,

    Do not ***** this up!

    Sincerely,
    Thousands of fanboys
    • lordtyros, on 07/17/2008, -4/+18A letter to all KOTOR fans on behalf of LucasArts:

      Dear KOTOR fans,

      Eat ***** and die!

      Sincerely,
      George Lucas
      • Zarokima, on 07/18/2008, -0/+13P.S. Be sure to buy this anyway because I still want your money.
    • skippy562, on 07/18/2008, -0/+3isn't that like every fanboy for any game?
    • Alphonze, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2i think Mission Vao had somethin goin on.
  • Pinkertinkle, on 07/17/2008, -1/+44Bastila, I'd hit it. Visas too.
  • frostbyt, on 07/17/2008, -14/+4*yawn*

    Another MMO. This looks interesting, but defiantly not a WOW killer. The ONLY wow killer will be World Of Starcraft.
    • ender7074, on 07/17/2008, -2/+1Which I would promply sign up for hehe
    • darkphenox, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2Why World of Starcraft? it would be boring no new gear to collect no new weapons either thats what drives mmos foreword and I don't see how a World of Starcraft would pull that off.
    • Clad, on 07/18/2008, -1/+2Uh the same way world of warcraft pulled it off? How would there be no gear to collect? You could say the same thing based on the Warcraft RTS's.
      • darkphenox, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1because in warcraft there lore has weapons of ancient and powerful design while starcraft they rely on the newest technology and there would not be a reason to go do things because there would be no sweet new weapon at the end of an instance.
      • Clad, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1Yeah, but you learned about most of that 'lore' and 'ancient weapons' through World of Warcraft. I'm saying it would be pretty damn easy for them to introduce weapon upgrades, along with a variety of weapons for starcraft.
  • kevL0CK, on 07/17/2008, -1/+7Revan is coming back though, right?
    • Tyrghast, on 07/18/2008, -0/+8*SPOILER ALERT* you are revan. in fact, this time, everyone is revan.
  • totorototoro, on 07/17/2008, -1/+51What about another KOTOR single player game?
    • chukd, on 07/17/2008, -0/+8Agreed, I would like to see a third game to tie together the ending of the first and second KOTOR games.
    • SonnyW, on 07/17/2008, -0/+20Heh. KotOR 2 has an ending, then?

      Last I checked the game ended, alright. But an ending? Nah.
  • Vesci, on 07/17/2008, -0/+42I hear you have to learn all the professions to be a jedi, then when someone does actually unlock the class it will be ridiculously overpowered. Then some time after they'll do a Combat Upgrade and destroy everything we loved about the game then after realizing their mistake they'll do an "overhaul" which is almost as bad as the first "Upgrade" and then this game will disappear from existence with a very low subscriber base and only a handful of staff and then they'll say how they should have listened to their customer base regret it and still not do anything about it.


    At least, that's how I envision it...call me crazy.
    • BrainEater87, on 07/17/2008, -0/+19This sounds familiar...
    • jscozzari, on 07/17/2008, -0/+11this sounds familiar to me for some reason.....
    • bpeacock22, on 07/17/2008, -0/+9All this has happened before and it will happen again
    • unorginalityftw, on 07/17/2008, -0/+8You forgot having a number of their own employees quit and lose it on them for being so ridiculously stupid.
    • Morkhon, on 07/17/2008, -3/+1You don't hear anything. Stop making things up. I have confidence in Bioware.
      • ShrimpCrackers, on 07/18/2008, -2/+2I have confidence in BioWare too... but not the same about George Lucas.
    • xkleenexk, on 07/18/2008, -1/+2he's making a joke about star wars galaxies....you tard
  • KaivenTor, on 07/17/2008, -0/+12As long as it doesn't go the way of Star Wars Galaxies, I might be intrigued enough to pick it up.
  • ErrantConstruct, on 07/17/2008, -0/+7I would prefer another single player KOTOR but maybe since bioware is working on it there is hope for a good story.
  • Renian, on 07/17/2008, -0/+11I would say "DO NOT WANT", and would prefer KOTOR 3 instead. However, this MMO is being built with HeroEngine, which is used by Hero's Journey, which I can't wait for. It's not out yet either, but that engine is effing insanely powerful.

    http://www.play.net/hj
    http://www.heroengine.com/
  • jlebrech, on 07/17/2008, -1/+1So would it still use it turnbased gameplay? and would it have tons of people running around.

    I get that it would have 2 factions (sith/jedi)

    And maybe hyperspace could be a seamless loading screen for instances

    not sure how it could keep its pausing ability if it were an mmo
    • Inohavehalos, on 07/17/2008, -2/+2Bioware made a similar rpg... Jade of empire.

      It did not have turnbase and it worked very well, so perhaps it would work well with kotor too.
    • mugicha, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2Can you explain how an MMO could have turnbased gameplay?
  • TheGreyArea, on 07/17/2008, -1/+12"Handle it? For a KOTOR MMO, I'd handle my grandfather's balls, sir."
  • crowbar77, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2To bad it won't be out for years, I've been waiting for Dragon Age forever.
  • mychiniswin, on 07/17/2008, -10/+1At least the graphics won't be cartoony like Diablo III is going to be
  • chukd, on 07/17/2008, -3/+2I would buy a Windows machine for this MMO.
    • transform100, on 07/17/2008, -2/+1who says you have to?
      • ShrimpCrackers, on 07/18/2008, -0/+4Have you gamed on a Mac lately? Most of them outside of the $2500+ machines are *****.

        /Yes I do own a MacBook Pro, a multi-monitor Mac, as well as a MacBook so I have the credentials.
      • Tyrghast, on 07/18/2008, -0/+5Most Macs, considering how much you pay for them, are *****. My PC, built by myself over a year ago for abour 1100 bucks, would be a 3k Mac product. God bless Fry's, Newegg, and thumbs.
  • Evolutuon, on 07/17/2008, -0/+4Its Star Wars Galaxies 2, but without the SWG baggage.
  • skridge, on 07/17/2008, -2/+22welcome to star wars galaxies, now set in a proper timeline for the jedi to exist. im sure they will find a way to screw the bantha with it, just like they did swg.

    swg started out as a damn fun game, then 2 combat revamps, the removal of over 1/2 the classes and it was a piece of steaming crap. i have low expectations for anything related to the franchise after my swg experience.
    • killtherebel, on 07/17/2008, -1/+7Agreed.

      Galaxies was fun for a bit but they started to change everything and took them way too long to get basic things out (like speederbikes). I remember having to run for over 30 minutes just to get anywhere for a while.
    • Lavarock, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2This is Bioware you're talking about though. Trust in them, you must.
      Yeah, Galaxies was great for the first few months. A real nice combat mechanic was the ability to shoot behind you as you run, at the cost of a good deal of accuracy. It made the fights a little more convincing than WoW. But the running, oh god the running... They are definitely going to need fast travel, fast.
  • BobbyMC, on 07/21/2008, -11/+6I'm going to skip over the "I told you so".

    What seems most important is the sheer stupidity of these whiners. It is a Star Wars MMO set in a time where there are countless Jedi and Sith, and the story is wide open. Limited in no way by that which killed SWG. Oh yeah, and it's by MOTHER ***** BIOWARE.

    I want to assume all haters are idiots, but I will allow the benefit of the doubt and assume a vast portion don't know how amazing of an MMO the original version of SWG was to paly. The best way to explan I think is to advise you to go back to an early episode of Totally rad where Albrecht hits the nail on the head as to why it was once awesome. That core game itself was great, but the story was stalled from the get go. When you have nothing interesting to add advancement wise, companies like SOE like to completely rewrite code.

    So if you needed to know that, good news for you. One of the big reason I confirmed this (personally, at least) over a year ago was when they hired Vogel (one of the heads behind SWG's original skill tree based, epicly awesome system). I have no doubt with such experience in both Star Wars and MMO making, not only will the story be worth playing for, but the combat will be epic in the Knights of the Old Republic should be.

    Oh, and remember that recent comment about the then stll unnamed MMO being about decisions and choices? That's what made me realize they went this route because the sheer complexity of making a 3rd and finding some way to fit the complexity of the first two into it would destroy a 3rd regular effort.

    I proved this was coming a year ago, so when I make this prediction I trust myself to be pretty accurate. KOTORMMORPG will be like MxO in the sense the individual player propels the story forward. In this sense, choice becomes the collective ability of a community to push the war one way or another. Do you choose to be Sith and work against the Jedi efforts, or do you become a Jedi like your father before you? If done right and not abandoned ala Monolith, such a game would not only allow an epic ending to a series that grew too big after only two games, but it could rape the ***** out of WoW.

    I "knew" it was happening in very early 07 for many reasons, including our own Albrecht whose enthusiasm allowed information that would have stayed hidden to float to the surface. Now that's official, I "know" what direction they are going, and Blizzard better have figured out how to code SSJ5 by now.
    • Uzi365, on 07/17/2008, -0/+7tl:dr
    • Jhiaxuz, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3Blizzard doesn't have to worry about too much. With the coming of WotLK, all they have to say is a release date and they have about 90% the WoW fanbase drooling from now till they announce their new MMO...
    • kenedamick, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2You = http://www.virginmedia.com/microsites/movies/slide ...
    • Xondar, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1Look, all we really know is that Bioware and Lucus Arts are working on an MMO together. There is still no guarantee that it's a KOTOR MMO.

      I personally won't believe it until there's an official announcement.
    • Tyrghast, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1"***** Bioware" is damn straight, I ***** loved KOTOR and Neverwinter Nights. They can easily pull this off. An MMO isn't even a challenge for Bioware, it's what their people have been doing in their free-time in between making kickass games.
  • mjbyrne, on 07/17/2008, -11/+2finally the WOW killer has arrived, YES!!!
    • UltX, on 07/17/2008, -0/+10That's been said about every MMO post WoW.

      • KeillRandor, on 07/17/2008, -1/+0I don't see any MMO doing that for some time - tbh, I haven't even seen any signs from any single/limited-multi-player games about doing so either:

        The reason WoW is so successful is that they got the game and game mechanics exactly right - (or near enough) - for the market they were aiming at - keeping it simple enough for the mainstream, yet adding just enough to bring in others too.

        Unfortunately, in order to 'beat' WoW - a game will have to do MORE than this - they'll have to hit pretty much the entire market - from keep-it-simple mainstream crowd, to the I-want-more-gameplay-depth/complexity hardcore RPG crowd. to say that there are not many (if any) games/RPG's out there that have successfully managed to do this, I'd say anyone currently trying to this in an MMO will have their work cut out for them...

        (Disclaimer: I'm currently working on an RPG system that will allow an RPG to do exactly that, scale from being a simple automatic-combat etc. system up to a full-on hard-core RPG.

        http://rpgforumsonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2 ... ).
  • Jhiaxuz, on 07/17/2008, -10/+2I'm probably the only one who thought KOTOR was not all that great. It's combat system did not intrigue me that much...
    • bagelmaster, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3Don't like RPGs much I'm guessing? Or maybe you like those ***** things called "JRPGs?" Eww.
  • GofG, on 07/17/2008, -4/+35There is a reason why every Star Wars MMO attempted will be doomed to fail.

    Not everyone can be a Jedi.

    There is no way to make a realistic SW MMO, because of the Jedis. Think about it: in every other MMORPG's universe, there was no class, even in the lore, that was feared and respected above all other classes. In Everquest, in the lore, every class was feared and respected equally. The sheer number of all of these high-power warriors/warlocks was well within the range of the lore. In World of Warcraft, in the lore, everyone is naturally extremely powerful. In Ultima Online, Ragnorak Online, EVE Online, and every other MMORPG you can think of (besides a few that I'm going to name in a bit), it made sense that the classes were as powerful as they are, and it also made sense to balance them.

    However, the developers of any Star Wars and any LOTR MMORPG have a tough time ahead of them, for one reason: it does not make sense in the lore to allow people to play the classes that they want to play. This is why you simply cannot make an MMO off of a franchise that already exists.

    The developers are going to have to choose between
    (a) Making the Jedi underpowered, but allowing everyone to be one (Breaking the lore)
    (b) Not allowing everyone to be a Jedi / Making it extremely difficult to become an Jedi (Think: you have to clear Dark Temple and the Sunwell)
    (c) Allow everyone to be an overpowered Jedi, breaking the lore and the story that makes Starwars as good as it is, and breaking every other class.

    Choice B is the obvious choice. Choice B will also make the game fail hard among people who aren't serious about the game; the average gamer is going to want to be a Jedi, and when they find out that they can't right off the bat, they won't want to play the game.

    I do not envy Bioware.
    • bpeacock22, on 07/17/2008, -3/+23(d) No one can be a Jedi; they'll only exist as NPCs?
    • jellyfishes, on 07/17/2008, -0/+4I don't think that's entirely true. What if you have to reach level 80 or something, then do a bunch of quests, and then you can start adding levels of Jedi to your current class? It would shrink the pool, and characters at that level would already be powerful and well-established. I think Jedi could fit within an MMO framework. I mean, you could never have an MMO that perfectly follows the Star Wars "lore" because it still has to be game. I think most people are willing to stretch the setting a little if it will make a fun game.
      • ShugNinx21, on 07/18/2008, -1/+2That's one of the inherent problems when creating a game based on an already created universe that wasn't designed for the medium.

        Take Bioware for example, with KOTOR they took Star Wars way way back in the time line where they had more freedom to develop a story and game mechanics that weren't constrained by the original media, yet they were still constrained somewhat by rules that were already present in that universe. They then went to original IPs in Jade Empire and Mass Effect where they had the freedom to make up anything they wanted because there were no predefined rules that they had to follow.
    • Oea420, on 07/17/2008, -1/+4The only possible route to go besides leaving them out of the game entirely (Confined to NPCs) is to require the efforts of a large group of people to attune one Jedi. This would keep the population in check per server, make it exceedingly difficult and on a very large timer, and most of the time ensure that a good person is chosen.

      Think of those Main Tanks back in the day in WoW sporting a thunderfury, you knew they've done their share of work to have that, reliable.

      This of course would lead to the most obscene guild drama I have ever seen...

      Leave them out as a player class, it's the only way
    • SoulGrub, on 07/18/2008, -0/+21Hang on, doesn't the kotor period have thousands of jedi and thousands of sith which negates this entire problem?

      Maybe you just haven't played kotor.
    • Raytown, on 07/18/2008, -0/+18Interesting point. But back in the day BEFORE Star Wars Episodes 1-6 there were HELLA Jedi. They didn't start becoming scarce until Vader and the Emperor ordered the execution of all Jedi during 4-6.

      What's really cool is there's another new game that's coming out soon called Star Wars: The Force Unleashed. It takes place between Episodes 3-4, and your sole mission in the game is executing Jedi!
    • otros, on 07/18/2008, -0/+3One thing that you are missing is that the Jedi class doesn't have to be only one class, even in kotor, if I remember right, were three "class" choices. You could even make a game where every PC is force sensitive, and still have an ample class selection.

      Also, @bpeacock22: the problem with d) is exactly the same as with b). Not having a PC Jedi class kinda kills the casual gamer market.
    • BooneFaustus, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2I actually had to make an account because no one has mentioned the only real way to offset the jedi/sith classes that would work and be quite simple. Give them a level adjustment ala D&D. In other words, say there is one person who is a jedi and one who is a bounty hunter. In order for the bounty hunter to go to level 2 he needs 1000xp, but for the jedi to go to level 2 he would need 4000xp. So that way a level 4 bounty hunter and a level 2 jedi would require the same amount of xp.
      • n4tune8, on 07/18/2008, -1/+3Actually, it's even easier if you use the D20 analogy: make Jedi a Prestige Class, which can be attained only by meeting the appropriate requirements. Thus, you cannot begin the game as a Jedi, but you can certainly become one at some point in your career.
      • SwitchXFactor, on 07/18/2008, -0/+4And unless there is no level cap (not logical), that wouldn't matter, because Jedi's would catch up and eventually be much better than a Bounty Hunter, unless there is class balance.

        (e)There are a lot of Jedi's with varying abilities limited to their role much like KOTOR 1, melee centric get less force usage but more power wielding a saber, force usage Jedi's become more force power oriented with limited saber usage. Levels and skills increase as any MMO would, there is a middle ground with equal incentive for either polar opposite, as well as dark and light sides adding more flavor to the ability list.

        It's not THAT far out of reach, is it? It isn't even breaking lore that much considering that there were a lot of Jedi before they were nearly wiped out...
    • Lavarock, on 07/18/2008, -0/+3They had choice b) in Star Wars Galaxies, but the problem was that eventually everyone figured it out and there were 1000 jedi running everywhere. In the early days it was cool, because the few Jedi out there were a kind of elusive rumor.
    • AReallyGoodName, on 07/18/2008, -1/+3Give the other classes hired goons and they could be just as powerful and important as a Jedi in their own right.
      Jabba the Hutt for example could pose just as much of a threat as any Jedi. So make a class that can control a criminal empire stocked with NPC thugs to command.
      Talon Karde had a fleet of ships including a Star Destroyer so make a trader class that can build up a nice fleet.
      As for the Jedi class, don't give them the option to build up a fleet of spaceships or to control a small private army, instead make it part of the gameplay that to become a Jedi you must give up any such aspirations and instead swear loyalty to the Academy/Sith Lords.
      Provided it's done right there will be a good mix of Jedi/Other classes without the Jedi seeming underpowered, they can kill a few of the other classes hired goons, but they can't easily take on the whole army.
      In fact if it was done this way i'd probably forgo trying to be a Jedi and instead i'd focus on taking over a city or planet Ladro Calrissian style.
    • Rizzen93, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1There is a simple solution. The game could be *GASP* set in a timeline that allows for massive amounts of Jedi to be running around... wait, isn't that the KoTOR timeline already? Yes, yes it is. Mandalorian Wars people.
  • Scopitone, on 07/17/2008, -0/+6Please succeed where the others have failed.
  • rz8472, on 07/17/2008, -2/+7A strength of KOTOR has always been its story. UNLESS they do an MMORPG like Guild Wars... which actually does manage to blend the two fairly seamlessly together, this is going to suck. But then again, I wouldn't be surprised if EA does a 'get 10 pumpkins over and over again' type of MMOG.
    • bagelmaster, on 07/17/2008, -1/+4Guild Wars had a story?
      • MainFram3, on 07/18/2008, -1/+0Yes, it was quite good until it made a 180 degree turn at Eye of the North.
  • str1fe, on 07/17/2008, -0/+6Please don't suck.
  • Xocide, on 07/17/2008, -2/+40. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _________
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ./ Finally!
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _,,,--~~~~~~~~--,_ . . . . ._________/
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    . . . . . . . . . . . . .,-‘ :: : : :::: :::: :::: :::: : : :o : ‘-, . . . . . . . . . .
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  • Slybri, on 07/17/2008, -3/+7If everyone is a Jedi, then the Jedi aren't very special.

    I'd much rather a single player game. Did WOW for 2 years and that's enough MMO for a lifetime.
    • SwitchXFactor, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1Really? Why is this so hard to grasp... look at WoW, every tool has the same stupid gear everyone else has at high level, I've never even played the game, but I know how it works. What's the difference in what fantasy you are playing out?
  • DownIsTheNewUp, on 07/17/2008, -2/+6Can't be any worse than Star Wars Galaxies.

    Does anyone still play that?
    • Clad, on 07/18/2008, -3/+3Actually SWG is going through a bit of a revival as of late.
      • dmjarrington, on 07/18/2008, -2/+1I would rather play a Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen game than deal with that steaming pile of ***** for another second.
      • burnedtubes, on 07/18/2008, -2/+1"When there is no more room left in hell..."
    • ComradeRikhi, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1Pre-CU SWG emulator in the works!
      http://www.swgemu.com/
  • mcool119, on 07/17/2008, -2/+12I'm disappointed. I was hoping for KOTOR 3.
    But, one word. Bioware. This game will ***** own.
  • yaryarhumphump, on 07/17/2008, -11/+3FAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAP
  • symph, on 07/17/2008, -0/+5I told myself I could never play MMO's again. My resolve just crumbled. I have no defense against this. This will be one hell of a ride.
  • blademanx, on 07/17/2008, -3/+19Damnit, this just ruined my day. I know everyone is excited about a new KOTOR game, but its a ***** MMO. Meaning that there will be little to no storyline or character development, just an unending sequence of fetch and kill quests. ***** you Bioware, and ***** you Lucasarts. I want KOTOR 3.
    • allan17, on 07/17/2008, -1/+5Agreed. I loved the first two games (even though KOTOR 2's ending was cut) but I won't buy a KOTOR MMO.
    • Morkhon, on 07/17/2008, -5/+0An mmo with little to no storyline or character development? ...You can't be serious. An mmo is almost entirely about story and character development.
    • SoulGrub, on 07/18/2008, -4/+0It's a common misconception that wow has no storyline. It has plenty, but just doesn't have nearly enough to sustain the hundred or thousands or hours people spend on it.
      • Lavarock, on 07/18/2008, -2/+1It's just too easy to ignore and you don't personally command it, so people think it isn't there.
    • Tyrghast, on 07/18/2008, -2/+1Thou hast never played NWN or any of it's incredible multiplayer modules? I would sell most of my body parts to help reinvigorate NWN into an MMO.
    • BlaenkDenum, on 07/19/2008, -0/+1FIGHT THE POWA! PETITIONONLINE! (Hah, as if that ever means jack *****, just look at the PC Version of Force Unleashed Petition, LucasArts just ***** hates us).
  • ronaldmonster, on 07/17/2008, -6/+9Damn it! I wanted a KoToR 3 but not in this form. This sucks.
    • exomni, on 07/18/2008, -1/+3KoToR?
    • mrbbad, on 07/18/2008, -0/+6I really agree, I wanted KOTOR 3, not another damn MMO. I'm sick of MMOs, I'm not playing another damn MMO...I want a KOTOR 3 damnit!
  • Morkhon, on 07/17/2008, -1/+4People expecting the worst baffle me. This is Bioware, quite possibly the best gaming company in the world. They make fantastic games time and time again. They'll make it work. I have no doubt of that.
    • exomni, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1Seriously? The best gaming company in the world? I mean, I absolutely loved KotOR, I loved Jade Empire, I thought Mass Effect was great... but best gaming company in the world? Someone ***** you one too many times.
      • wharrislv, on 07/18/2008, -0/+3Why say someone is wrong, and not offer the correct alternative? What is the point?
      • exomni, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1Here's an alternative:

        BioWare is not the best gaming company in the world. Not even close.

        And if the point you're trying to make made any sense, we would be hundreds of years behind on scientific progress. There is plenty of point in pointing out something's wrong, with or without offering an alternative.


        But if you want an alternative:

        Capcom, Nintendo, Blizzard, Ubisoft, etc etc.
    • n4tune8, on 07/18/2008, -0/+3I'll say Bioware is the second best gaming company in the world. Blizzard is still the undefeated champion. Of course, they don't have the same resources (Blizz pretty much prints money), but Bioware is better at storytelling and depth and Blizzard has the "addiction" thing down to an art form.
    • Rizzen93, on 07/18/2008, -1/+2I'd say it is a toss up between Bioware and Blizzard. Both companies only release solid, polished games. It comes down to personal preference. I love me some RPG's so Bioware gets #1. I love Diablo and Starcraft, but not as much as an epic story driven game like everything Bioware puts out.
  • vaxguru, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3Oh god no. I was hoping not to hear this. What the hell happened to KOTOR3?? They have a perfectly good story going and they've decided to ignore it completely.
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