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Super Mario 64 for Wii renders at much higher resolution than N64 original

bytecellar.com — The only Nintendo 64 title available for the Wii's Virtual Console right now is Super Mario 64. A nice first choice - but a close look shows that Nintendo went well beyond basic emulation in the case of this title. The Wii Virtual Console version of SM64 has been modified to render at 4x the 320x240-pixel screenmode of the N64 original! (See pics)

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  • dvflameartist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+37Direct Link to side-by-side comparison: http://pix.blakespot.com/view/computers/screenshots/SM64_N64vsWii/
    • bennybertow, on 10/12/2007, -31/+5Mouse-over would have been better for comparison...
    • blakespot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Hey, I'm a working man. Just use the 'Next' links to move through the gallery, it's the best way to feel the difference.
    • Suspected, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Looks great! I was considering replaying this game on the Wii, but now that I know the video quality is better, I will definitely purchase it! ^_^
    • twtmc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+54http://www.duggmirror.com/

      Can someone ban mikeshow please?
    • mooninite, on 10/12/2007, -30/+7Simply use Project64 and hook your computer up to your TV. What's the big deal about this article?

      -- oh yeah, the emulator will allow you to use anti-aliasing, etc. for a more refined picture than the Wii will ever show you.
    • Wiinii, on 10/12/2007, -8/+11Too bad that the VC games are stretched on widescreen TV's, what's up with that Nintendo?
    • Arkz, on 10/12/2007, -11/+4"The absence of said blocky goodness in the Wii's rendering of the game indicates that the SM64 engine has been modified to output at the Wii's native resolution of ~640x480 progressive."

      Wii's native res is 852x480..... ;)
    • drathosX3, on 10/12/2007, -20/+7duggmirror.com doesn't work for the screenshots... user:blakespot is a ***** bitch.
    • zapco03, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12I wish Diggmirror would mirror the content we actually want to see, not the pages talking about the content we want to see. This could probably be done easialy by mirroring the links people write in the comment pages.

      I also wish people would stop linking to pages talking about what we want to see and just link directly to the goods.
    • Technopope, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2@Arkz

      The Wii's resolution seems to be only 640x480, there is no 852x480 television resolution.

      The Wii handles widescreen by creating an anamorphic widescreen image, a regular video image (640x480) which is actually image compressed horizontally. A widescreen TV then stretches that image out to fit the width of the screen.
    • AirRaven, on 10/12/2007, -11/+2Astounding. It's now running what's now almost a 12 year old game at a resolution one quarter of that used by the competing consoles.

      Pity it can't handle anything higher. N64 games really do benefit from higher resolutions in emulation on the PC.
    • trogdor282, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10@technopope

      You don't understand NTSC. There's no discrete pixel, just a continuous scan line. The wii could output at 100000x480 or 10x480 and an analog tv could show either one. 640x480 just happens to be the sweet spot where the pixels are square.
    • Arkz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ Technopope

      I know normal widescreen is really a 4:3 picture horizontally compressed then stretched, but I read that Nintendo themselves said Wii games were rendered in 852x480, to be outputted in 480p... which sorta confused me seen as tho 480p isnt wider than 720 pixels
    • Technopope, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@Arkz

      In my above comment claiming there is no 852x480 resolution, I was totally wrong. There *is* such a resolution but is doesn't fall into any NTSC standard, as it is considered EDTV (Enhanced Definition TV). EDTV is a digital TV subset of HDTV and is part of the 480p standard. 480p can be 702x480, 720x480 or 852x480. I haven't been able to find out what Wii's 480p resolution is, as my component cable arrives later. Again,my apologies Arkz, you might be correct.


      @trogdor282

      I understand NTSC perfectly.

      : There's no discrete pixel, just a continuous scan line.

      True, but a continuous scan line that has to be modulated and is constrained by the bandwidth of the video signal. When that scan line scans 525 lines 29.97 times a second (the NTSC standard) there is a fixed amount of time that scan line has to paint its dots horizontally. The *bandwidth* of that video signal determines the horizontal resolution, and roughly equates to about 79 horizontal dots for each Mhz of bandwidth. The broadcast standard for US NTSC is about 4.2 Mhz for the video portion.

      :The wii could output at 100000x480 or 10x480 and an analog tv could show either one.

      Yes, it could, and as long as your analog TV could process a video signal with a bandwidth of of over 1200 Mhz, you could see that resolution. Most are limited to about 5 Mhz. A 1080i HDTV needs to process a 37 Mhz signal for a perfect picture.

      Most video today is sourced digitally and there are resolution standards to conform to, typically 702x480 or 720x480 for 4:3, and 1280x720 or 1920x1080 for 16:9. However, as I stated above, there *is* also an 852x480, which I was wrong about. I don't know if the Wii outputs this, however.
    • lukas88, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I saw no evidence that they were a higher resolution on the wii pics. The lack of jagged edges does not necessarily mean a higher resolution. It could just mean there is 2x, 4x, or 8x anti-aliasing. A higher resolution would show more detail in textures, which it clearly does not.

      If you simply have less jagged edges, it is because there is anti-aliasing involved. Not higher resolution. They wouldn't have to change anything about the game's graphics/software to do that, it can all be done via hardware.
    • Wisgary, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Look at the sprites for the castle windows. They look awesome on the Wii.
    • Tollboi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2honestly if you saw no difference you should look for more than 5 minutes especially at the details further off in the distance. If you still can not see any difference I have a modded PS3 that I put in a PS2 case that I can sell you real cheap.
  • hotbeefman, on 10/12/2007, -6/+22This combined with the news of Nintendo adding online functionality to NES and SNES games, maybe even all systems, is what we like to call a "Killer App"
    • DarkStalker, on 10/12/2007, -10/+5They already said they are NOT adding any online functionality and all the games will be as they were originally.
    • hotbeefman, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17no just last week they changed that stance

      http://digg.com/gaming_news/Virtual_Console_To_Start_Offering_Upgrades_Mario_Kart_ONLINE
    • SkippyDoorknob, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10They just said it's theoretically possible to update existing games - not that they will definitely do it (and that the update would add online functionality).
    • streetstealth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6If Nintendo wants to persuade people to stay away from ROMs and buy through Virtual Console... I can hardly imagine any better way than adding online multiplayer to some of the catalog!
    • DarkStalker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Maybe you need to read that article, because there is no confirmation of ANYTHING there.
  • iluvatar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10while it's impossible to tell with those comparison shots the article offers, it's still believable. Nintendo did the same thing with Ocarina of Time for Gamecube.
  • Chaosteil, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3It looks like simple anti-aliasing to me... But still nice to see some improvements for one of my favorite games of all time :)
  • blakespot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2While the comparison shots are admittedly crude, I think the difference can be clearly seen, espcially in the Castle pictures. There's much less "sparkle" artifacting when slowly panning across that scene on the Wii vs. N64, as well.

    And it can't be simple AA. The N64 version actually uses AA, and no AA at the original 320x240 would look that smooth, regardless of the algorithm used.

    I kinda wish Nintendo had added the improved textures of SM64DS to this high-res rendering. That would have made for the ultimate version, indeed.
  • DTJunkie07, on 10/12/2007, -13/+3Yeah and so is the one for project 64.....i own both.
    • Wootery, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13A modern PC can emulate Mario 64 at 1280x1024 with 16x anti-aliasing and 8x anisotropic-filtering, but it's not on a console.

      Xbox 1 can emulate it, albeit at lower quality.
    • daridave, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Project64 doesn't emulate it 100% correctly. Some effects (such as transparancy) are not 100% right. Wii's emulation is top notch, not only for the n64 but also the NES.

      I was surprised at how Zelda, running on my PC and on Wii are very different (on the same screen). So much that now, I actually think I WILL spend on the VC...
  • xythian, on 10/12/2007, -15/+5http://www.duggmirror.com
  • raabco, on 10/12/2007, -37/+5Cool... So when is Nintendo going to release VC games anyone cares about?
    • raabco, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4wow

      I guess there's a lot of NES tennis fans on here!
    • MrObjectional, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Damn straight. I've got in on the E-Reader.
  • ahawks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27Bummer that the pics, already down, are on a secondary page and so they aren't in the duggmirror.

  • grahamcase, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3I heard about this before - sweet! Can't wait to buy my Wii!
  • RozzleDozzle, on 10/12/2007, -7/+0Not working. :(
  • BasouKazuma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20The secondary page should've been submitted to digg. Then we'd have a mirror. Anyone save the pics b4 it went down?
  • jonpotz, on 10/12/2007, -16/+5i play my mario64 with 8x anti aliasing / triple vsync @ 1080p on my projector...

    I must say it is quite thrilling.

    Some of those stars are a bitch to get.
  • danmanx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Well, even though I can't see the pics, I'll definitely take the word of these other Digg members. It's so great to hear Nintendo taking care of their games for the next gen platform!
  • Justizzle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I can't wait for the pics to come back up, I'm excited to see the comparison!! I never played Mario 64 (yeah, yeah, I've heard it all before), but this seems like as good a time as ever to play through it. I have the rom on my xbox, but the 64 emulator kinda sucks, so VC seems the way to go!
  • SuperNick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Link isn't working for me. Damn you Digg!
  • Misfitpierce, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I would hope it would look better. As with most games you play in newer systems the hardware cant help but make it look better.
  • everfalling, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4duggmirror mirror's the site, but not the gallery it links to. *****...
  • ryanfelix, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3THE DIGG EFFECT
  • TheTankengine, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2If he would have taken the pics with comonent cables on the Wii, maybe this would be something worth looking at.
    I can't see them right now (way to go on submitting the BLOG and not what we actually care about), but I'm gonna go ahead and assume the difference isn't that drastic. He is talking about how great it looks in 480p, yet he can't see it in 480p.
    • blakespot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2For a photo of a static in-game image, there is no difference in appearance between 480p and 480i on a TV that upscans everything to progressive. I assumed people knew that. With component, the scene would be sharper and the colors more true, granted - but all 480 lines are being displayed.
  • zandr88, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14http://abcnews.com.com/Super_Mario_64_Wii/4535-9993_7-32159770-1.html?tag=nav for SS from the wii
    http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpagesscreens/198848.asp?screenid=1 SS from the N64.

    No real side by side comparison but you get the point
    • magiclava, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2Those supposed wii screen shots in the first link are just old N64 ones. Lazy reviewer...
    • mrlost117, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2thank you for goin on the hunt long enough to find this.

      IMO the game looks clearer, but its so jaggedy I really wouldnt call it better, more of a trade off. I dunno though maybe Im wrong *shrug
    • courtarro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I appreciate the links, but those screenshots from the original SM64 are probably not good for comparison since it looks like they're either photos of a television showing the game, or caps taken over a crummy interface like composite or RF video. The original game definitely looked better than those in that link, on the right equipment.
  • baboonraf, on 10/12/2007, -11/+0i mean who would of thought?
  • h3ndrix, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1I can't get the pages to load, lousy internet.
  • baboonraf, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3i meant *have* thought
  • panzerfinder15, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8bytecellar.com...appropriate name for a site that went down instantly after hitting the frontpage
  • Langford, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Out of curiosity, has anyone witnessed Mario Sunshine on the Wii yet? No reason to expect it to be any different, but I am curious to hear how well Gamecube backwards compatibility is working out.
    • DigitalDud, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3For all intents and purposes, the Wii IS a Gamecube except clocked higher and with more memory, so there's no difference at all, from a Gamecube games' perspective anyway.
    • xeaxes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3People are saying that GC games look better on the Wii. Maybe some better color filtering, or lighting effects from the Hollywood GPU?
    • DigitalDud, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Sounds more like the placebo effect.
    • vandread, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@DigitalDud

      EDIT: Xeaxes beat me to it.

      But yeah a new GPU can make a huge difference in quality of video.
    • Josuajosua, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I've tried Mario Sunshine on the Wii and as far as I can say, it's looking slightly better. Maybe it's placebo, maybe not, but I should definitely try a direct comparison of the 2 console. Which mean I need to plug back my gc.... nope, note this week though.

      One negative point! It still uses the GC memory card, you can't save your game on the Wii drive. I'm sad about that.

      -Josua
    • megashaun, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2RE4 seems to have better detail for things off in the distance when played on the Wii. Although admittedly I didn't have component cables for my 'Cube, so it could just be that.
  • DigitalDud, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yeah well that would explain why you see texture seams all over.
  • inkubux, on 10/12/2007, -10/+2My mythtv box also renders mario64 at 136.6*1024 pixels and it looks awesome :)
  • Pikachelsea, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3I am almost positive that all this "OMFG MY GameCube/VIRTUAL CONSOLE GAMES LOOK BETTER ON Wii!!!" business is nothing but people seeing something that isn't there. If you don't believe me, go ask all the uninformed masses who swear that all their TV channels and old DVDs instantly look better on an HDTV, as if the HDTV magically converts all non-HD content it displays to HD.

    It doesn't work that way. Nintendo states in the Wii shopping guide FAQ that none of the games on the virtual console have been modified in any way WHATSOEVER. This is just people trying to find more reasons to justify re-purchasing games on the Virtual Console.
    • blakespot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Can you actually not see a difference in the photos? (Wait 'till the server stops getting pounded and try back.)
    • grumbel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0N64 games or at least Mario64, is definitvly rendered in 640x480, the pictures proof that, you can also go to Gamespot or any other gaming side to confirm this. Other virtual console games however look exactly the same as back then and so do Gamecube games, the only reason why they might look better is due to component output on the Wii, instead of Cinch, SVideo or RGB cables which most people used with the original Gamecube.
    • blakespot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Grumbel,
      SM64 on the Nintendo 64 is a 320x240 game. It is non interlaced, 240i, like old SNES games, etc. The N64 is capable of 640x480 and that mode is used in a small % of games, but SM64 is without doubt 320x240. On the Wii, however, it is being rendered at 640x480.
  • Gerz1219, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5UltraHLE did the same thing back in 1998. Frankly, if Nintendo hadn't been able to beat the performance of an 8 year old illegal emulator (which ran on my P2 400 if I recall correctly), they don't deserve to stay in business. I'd have been really impressed if they updated some of the textures or added new levels -- or just added something of value to justify the $10 pure-profit price tag and get me to stop playing it on my HTPC.
    • hamstereater, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3oh bug off
    • lukas88, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1He makes a really good point, I have made n64 games look better than that on emulators, which proves (at least to me) that nintendo didn't necessarily change the software to achieve the better graphics. Its all about the better hardware interpreting the graphics.
  • ColinRodgers, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Did anyone think to Duggmirror the actual image itself instead of the site with nothing but text?
  • trueimage, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2why wouldn't they implement some AA? still looks like crap. they could have done better
    • gk128, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3It's a 10 year old game now. Sure it's not good looking, but it looks a lot better then 1996 PS1 3D games if you looked at them side by side today.
  • SPThom, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I'm gonna have to take the middle ground here: the quality of rendered graphics is certainly improved on the Wii, BUT there's no reason to believe Nintendo did anything special.

    By "rendered graphics", I mean anything in 3D: character models, environment, etc. It just makes sense that these would be improved, though... being vector graphics, it's all math. Plug the math into a better graphics processor, and it's going to make for better looking images.

    Notice that the bitmapped sprites on the HUD don't show any improvement. That's because there's no math there... it's all pixels.

    But in order to improve that, they'd basically need to redo ALL sprites in a game. The demand for Anti-Aliasing is an oversimplified approach--sure, they could blur the edges on some sprites, but what if other sprites need to be pixel-precise? There's no way for them to have anticipate which games and sprites are supposed to be very detailed (think overhead maps) and which can just be polished and fuzzied.

    Anyhow, I think they did a great job. I can't wait to get Ocarina of Time on this.
  • zetsurin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Which one was which?
  • damentz, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Um, i play games at 1600x1200, how is 640x480 special for a console?
  • Conquerist, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Pfft, Nintendo, are you kidding me? How is running SM64 at 640*480 a big deal?
    With an emulator like 1964 you can play SM64 at 2560*1600 (on a 30" screen from dell, ***** apple's) with 4xFSAA, or even 32xFSAA, if you're a proud owner of two 8800s in SLI....
    Does the Wii come anything close to that? :-P
  • DelMonte, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The thing is that Nintendo stated before that they wouldn't improve things like framerate and resolution of VC games. This shows that it's not the case and that they did improve the resolution on games like Super Mario 64. This is what makes it news, and this is what makes it interesting to Wii owners (and future owners).

    Sure there's nothing technically impressive about this, but now we know that some games will be improved on the VC compared to them running on the original console.
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