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Utah Politicians Actually Discuss Bully as "The Columbine Game"
gamepolitics.com — Over at GamePolitics there is audio and accompanying text of last Friday's hearing in which Utah legislators actually discuss Bully as "the Columbine Game" It's all on the record.
GamePolitics- 593 diggs
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- etjrowe, on 10/12/2007, -7/+50Is anyone really amazed by this? This happens across the board. The people making our laws rarely have any idea what they are talking about. Not only did they not know anything about the game, they weren't even talking about the same game!
These are the idiot running out country people! And it's not just games that this happens with! Wake up and vote these crusty old tards out of office! Write and email them and let them know that you won't stand for this level of ignorance in your government!- Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -4/+31I just have to point out a bit of irony in your post.... "These are the idiot running out country people!"
- ro0ke, on 10/12/2007, -6/+25You can't say they're all idiots... you can say they're uneducated about this particular subject and, therefore, shouldn't be making any decisions until they learn more about the matter.
- davidsmero, on 10/12/2007, -0/+29Don't ever argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
- cclasby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Show me a better idiot than the ones we have and I will vote for him.
- Myonosken, on 10/12/2007, -6/+0Gordon Brown.
- mrgreen4242, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Here's my big beef with this: I don't expect them to have personal knowledge of every subject they are expected to debate/discuss. It's not possible, especially with video games or other things from, let's face it, several generations "under" them. But, I do expect them to be smart enough to know they don't know what they are talking about and to find someone who does. Like, say, have an intern play the game up for discussion, right a brief summary of his experience with it - not what he thinks about it, but rather I played for 10 hours and in that time I saw this and that and this, I did not see any of this or that which is purportedly in this game. It's not the BEST scenario, but it is in fact better than having no knowledge what so ever.
- cvindustries, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Just for the record, this all took place at a hearing where our legislators could learn about the topic before passing any sort of legislation. For those bright enough to conject that while our elected officials don't know about everything, but should have the foresight to learn about something before passing any laws, that's exactly what they were doing.
- aerogant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2As they say "Ignorance of the law is no excuse", but what needs to be said is when the laws are created in ignorance?
- aerogant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@cvindustries does it sound like they were there to learn what Bully was? Or does it sound like they came into the meeting already with a jaded POV?
- MusicalGenius, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Wow, old means stupid, Utah means stupid, and because of who they are they MUST be undereducated about this. What a bunch of full blown biased idiots.
All of you keep stating your "I know I'm smart and this is why and they are dumb" comments. Not ALL politicians are old people who don't understand this subject. I am young, I'm a gamer and I know plenty of older people who understand gaming a lot. And guess what people, some day you will be old and young people will call you idiots or uneducated on the newer things. So old people shouldn't vote cause you understand being old even though you aren't right? Old people shouldn't be in politics cause you KNOW their situation better than your own. Just like a girl I know who is 17 pregnant and smokes a pack a day but her dad CAUSE HE IS OLDER is uneducated about the risks because he is old.
IS IT POSSIBLE...just possible that games can influence children? Many people believe so. And I believe it's common sense. Not only that I prove the hypocrites wrong. I'll admit now that I'm more conservative so be prepared I know that will offend most Diggers. Most diggers say that games won't affect little children yet the mass media can influence what most Americans think. You all believe that media affects so many and you can see past it but they are horrible for doing it yet a child can't be manipulated!?!? Who can be manipulated easier a 30 year old or a 10 year old. COME ON!! You damn well know that a child can be influenced and so how could a rating system that helps parents raise there kids be bad? It's forceful isn't it which is bad? Guess what I wouldn't force my kids not to play a game no matter what, but the game doesn't have to be welcome in MY home. These things help. Parents can have rules you know...or is that bad too? Is there rating system hurting you. You can still buy your kid a game which is rated M. This just helps those who want it have a little tool which doesn't take your freedom away.
This is only about making sure a game has ratings. There is nothing wrong with wanting that. So many think OH NO!! How dare they!?!? Some parents believe in parental control, some don't. There is nothing wrong with ratings why? BECAUSE it gives people MORE freedom than you think...
Ratings don't restrict. Telling parents what the 'questionable' things are in a game and how severe so that they can have the OPTION if it's something they believe in or they can ignore it if they want. Ratings give more freedom for parents to choose.
It isn't ignorant to say we are labeling everything with a small rating box on the corner of the game so that you can use those ratings if you so desire. It IS ignorant however to believe that anyone old or from Utah is stupid.
- benijuana, on 10/12/2007, -12/+9whatever, they're pretty lame but i doubt their constituency consists of anything more than dirt, corn, and mormons. I wouldn't worry, its amusing if anything
- gutistg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Their ineptitude makes me cringe.
- Arbus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9It's your cringitude that makes them inept. Cut it out.
- mrASSMAN, on 10/12/2007, -11/+11I feel sorry for anyone who has to live in Utah..
- SSCrow, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17I'm from Utah.
I don't see why there is a stigma against the State.
This story could have happened anywhere.
Not to mention Utah has Park City,
many great things are in Park City, or happen there.
Such as the Sundance Film Festival, and the three world class ski resorts that surround the city.
Plus Utah has some amazing National Parks. - javip, on 10/12/2007, -5/+24Given your own list of Utah's best features, surely even you can see why there is a stigma.
- djruden, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17Park City? I'm sold.
Wait.... Why do I care about Park City again..? - TheTaoOfBill, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"Wait.... Why do I care about Park City again..?"
The sundance film thingy and the ski resort. - cm1265, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5@SSCrow
There is a stigma against Utah because it deserves it. I was born there and lived there almost 30 years, even as a member of the dominate religion I realized that Utah is one of the most freedom hating states in the union. The general consensus is that morality should be legislated. They want people who don't believe in the dominate religion to leave and be ashamed for not accepting "The Church" and its teachings. They thank god for the freedom to worship how they want, and at the same time do not want those same freedoms extended to people who do not believe in god, or even those that just don't believe the same way they do. This story does not surprise me, this state is the home of Chris Buttars, the worst thing to ever happen to the Utah State Legislature.
- SSCrow, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17I'm from Utah.
- Orlex, on 10/12/2007, -0/+31Rockstar may as well have made Bully a hardcore drug-fueled nun-raping teacher-shooting rampage game, it's still getting treated like one regardless of the fact that it's rather tame.
- HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7It's a good game, and it's not a Columbine Game. It's too too bad it hasn't been overly successful other than at attracting the ire of politicians.
- Dundasbro, on 10/12/2007, -10/+5It's Utah, what did you expect?
- Orlex, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Yeah! Damn mormans.
- WorfoSAUR, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Grow-up and check your facts. Just because we aren't as mentally retarded as the other 49 states, doesn't mean that we are worse then you.
- rofflcopterr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7man, i love this game. i think when i stopped i was about halfway through.
the most "violent" part about it is the fact that you can break a chair over someone's head. keep in mind this is coming from a developer who's most successful title franchise includes heavy drug use/sex/violence towards police/encouragement towards crime. and yet they still get flak? - tf5bassist, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17Nothing gets me enraged like unabashed ignorance and idiocy.
Bully=barely violent. Ooooh, a potato gun... Most people I know have made one. It's a game where if you accidentally run into someone on a bike, you have the cops after you.
Bully != Super Columbine Massacre. ***** morons.- darkstar949, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yup, I was thinking the same thing. I have a hunch that that conversation might be taken out of context or the legislators are just misinformed. This looks like it might just be a blogger overreacting to something - send them an email clearing things up and call it a day already.
- WorfoSAUR, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yes...And **** catholics and every other dang religion out there too.
- 89vision, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0Leave it to Utah...Aside from the politics its really not a bad place.
- XStatic, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Bully?
- madjo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Europeans will know the name Canis Canem Edit better...
- ahuxley, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Mb they dont like all the kissing :-)
- jlebrech, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0Now THAT would be a GREAT game!!!! *TChick Tchick* Boom.
- Fire4Effect, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1If they can make the illogical comparison of Bully to Columbine I have some magic rocks and protective underwear to sell them...oh wait...nm.
- Paroparo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I hope the guy who compared the Bushists to faux-Klingons is geek enough to correct them on this. We (well you Americans anyway) need nerds in congres!
- jellygraph, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4is there any point bothering with america anymore?
- elitexero, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Meh, the game sucked ass anyhow.
- jrieth50, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6They were just confusing Bully and Super Massive Columbine RPG. RTFA.
- Orlex, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0That game is SICK! I always die in the end though, whether I play the shooters or the students :(.
- aniki21, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2While I'm sure R* aren't too worried about the extra press, it's astounding that these guys are so ill-informed.
How can you mix up a professionally-produced PS2 game (Bully) and an amateur's spare-time RPG (Super Columbine Massacre RPG)? They don't look alike, they don't play alike, they're not even on the same system. - Troy_Huch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Recently I've been looking up a bit of stuff on games classification and censorship history and what I can tell ya is that this sort of misappropriation/misconception isn't anything new. The whole thing of game rating and censorship began in a sense on a misconception of a game called Night Trap. Here is a link to a kind of old submission now to video about it - http://digg.com/videos/educational/The_FIRST_censored_video_game_9_min_documentary_Night_Trap_Sega_CD
- YellowJKT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3See. To those suits, it's just the name "Bully" which strikes fear into their hearts. Nothing is required to be known about the game.
If Rockstar named the game something different, something along the lines of "Everyday life of an ordinary kid", they would lap it up.
But controversy sells........- TheTaoOfBill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Actually I think it's just because it's from the makers of GTA. I'll bet they think Rockstar Table Tennis is violent.
- snurfle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It's Jack Thompson. Surely this is exactly what he hoped would happen!
Jack: Here, all of you 60+ year-old politicians, here's a list of video games.
Some of them are violent.
60+ year-old politician: I don't know anything about video games. I have a life. What is this game rated?
Different 60+ year-old politician: Which one?
Jack's people: Oh, good. They're confused.
Overzealous Diggers: WOW! They're so stupid!
Jebus! Fire your criticism at Jack Thompson!- Blaatmeister, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1Jack Thompson is god. We don't have the right to criticize him!
- profOblivion, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@Blaatmeister
You forgot to say '/sarcasm'. At least I hope you forgot.
- saigumi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Wait, you mean there are VDO games on these intertubes that kids can get for free and are unrated and may contain intense violence and adult situation?
We need to jam up these intertubes and stop people from using them.
Though, with the major disparagement between young and old growing exponetially due to technolgy growing exponentially, how soon until the youth can slap a law in that anyone over 60 is not allowed to be in the gov't?
I mean, we already have a minimum age for offices as well as a minimum age for a lot of activities, what we really need now are some maximums. A way of saying "You are way to old to understand the concepts of what 50% of your constituents are even talking about." - joevill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Dumb! Politians p*ss me off! The state of Utah p*sses me off!! Mormons are just, dumb-dumb, dumb-dumb-dumb! haha
- hansblix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3are you 11? i think everyone here is old enough to see the word "piss".
oh *****. i said piss. my mommy is gonna kill me if she finds this in the history...
- hansblix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3are you 11? i think everyone here is old enough to see the word "piss".
- dnll, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Have they even played the game? You FIGHT bullies, you don't become one. You can, but you get punished for it.
- deadmanjake, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I live in Utah and these are the dumb asses in charge of my government.
- hansblix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Everyone needs to realize that if those boys had never taken their slingshots to school that day at Columbine, all those students would still be alive.
Oh wait, thats right, they used guns... - Guagloves, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0wow... another over-reacting politician what a surprise.
maybe if they actually played the game for themselves they would see the real truth. - enforcerpsu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I hate old people.
(and by that I mean old people out of touch with reality) - Zoshchenko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1History repeats itself over and over and over. The people most ready to ban books for their content never read the books they want to ban. The people who want to ban music, don't listen to the music they want to censor. Anyone with a new, controversial idea is shot down by people who get that idea interpreted for them instead of hearing it first-hand. This is no different. People hear what they want to hear and react to that instead of the facts. Old politicians in ultra-conservative religious states just tend to do it more often.
- Gatesophile, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1*sigh* If they have ever actually PLAYED the game, they'd see that you can be the bully or the person being bullied. It's all in how you play.
And plus, I played more violent games of Mario. - scottnic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I'm concerned about the stereotyping and prejudice that many seem to have against the state of Utah [I live in Utah, and I am a "Mormon" -- a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints].
I'll freely admit that the large numbers of Mormons in this state have an influence on local politics. That's only to be expected. You see the same influence in other regions where one religion or sub-group is dominant, and it's likely that the effect is even more pronounced in Utah because members of the church are actively encouraged to be involved in politics and to participate in the political process.
It's very rare, however, for the church itself to promote any sort of political agenda. Church leaders have spoken out against abortion, as well as same-sex marriage. Apart from those two issues (largely issues of "morality" as the church defines it) I have never heard members of the church told to vote one way or another.
It's true that Mormons in general are fairly conservative. It's also true that there are some who could fairly be classified as right-wing nut-jobs. Most members of the church are probably much closer to "just right of center", and a liberal Mormon is not a contradiction in terms.
I'm guessing that some of the commentors here don't know anything about Mormons or about the state of Utah apart from what they've heard from other (possibly biased?) sources. (For example: "i doubt their constituency consists of anything more than dirt, corn, and mormons" [we don't grow much corn here]). Many of these statements would be seen as highly inflammatory if some other location or group was substituted:
"I doubt their constituency consists of anything more than dirt, corn, and blacks [or jews, or muslims]"
In fact, one of the topics that gets the most attention from leaders of the church is tolerance. Most Mormons are friendly, and have no problem associating with and being friends with those who believe differently than they do. Sure, we may invite you to church activities, or even to have the missionaries over. That's because we believe we have something that can improve your life (and your life after death). But tell us you're not interested, and most of us will say "Okay. If you ever change your mind let me know" and will continue to be your friend with no strings attached.
There are a few who haven't learned the lesson of tolerance yet. All we ask is that you don't judge our entire group based on a few people who don't quite follow what our leaders teach.- cm1265, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The basis of your argument is flawed. I was a Mormon for 25 years, grew up in Utah, served a mission, married in the temple, the whole bit. I am far from ignorant on the subject. The church doesn't preach bigotry, but then why is it so prevalent among the members? It is because they are elitists. If you aren't a member, then you are going to hell, plain and simple. Ask anyone who grew up in Utah as a "non-member" they will ALL tell you the same thing. This country was founded to work against mob rule, not for it. Just because you are the dominate faction doesn't give you the right to impose your beliefs on others
- WorfoSAUR, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1READ THE ARTICLE. The legislator was being briefed on it, he obviously has no idea about what it is, and the confusion was quickly cleared up.
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