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The sound that shouldn't be-violinist defies physics(so far)

noiseaddicts.com — Mari Kimura is a New York composer and virtuoso violinist whose music includes hauting low notes on the violin called “subharmonics.” …Problem is, these sounds aren’t supposed to be possible. .... and yes, audio included.

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  • GetSmartGal, on 07/21/2008, -20/+37Interesting that they can't figure out how she is doing it!
    • RTourn, on 07/22/2008, -3/+62Give it time, this is how science works.
      • mistermaster, on 07/22/2008, -11/+22God did it.
      • oscenester, on 07/22/2008, -4/+49Another sign of his great noodly appendage blessing this earth!
      • itsthebrod, on 07/22/2008, -0/+7Well now that that's settled, back to the condemning!
      • thcobbs, on 07/22/2008, -0/+4She would make a killing on a Halloween album.
      • billbugger, on 07/22/2008, -1/+6Witch!
      • EtherGnat, on 07/22/2008, -0/+4That recording turned me into a newt.
      • TheMidnight, on 07/22/2008, -1/+2Burn her?

        Oh, and did you get better, EtherGnat?
    • RedRummy, on 07/22/2008, -3/+35Its called additive synthesis... 2 or more vibrational sources or waveforms (violin body / bow / strings) can combine to produce a sound that has harminics which aren't present in either of the 2 source waveforms.

      Its a staple of electronic music, but it is amazing if it is possible on a stringed instrument.
      • Midtowner, on 07/22/2008, -10/+12I'm a violinist. We learn how to do regular harmonics very early on. Subharmonics though? I have no idea. That a violin can do harmonics is not "amazing" in the least.

        To get a harmonic, you simply find the proper place on the string for the harmonic desired. Sometimes you'll put your first finger all the way down to give a certain length of string. More often, you won't. What you do is slightly put down your other finger so the string is only half-depressed. Usually a faster than average bow is also required.

        I have no idea how the science works, but again, harmonics are something just about any violinist can do.
      • blergle, on 07/22/2008, -1/+9I suspect the bow itself is acting as an LFO / sub-oscillator.
      • danlowlite, on 07/22/2008, -0/+6@midtowner

        Always wanted to learn how to play violin...anyway, you can do this easily enough on a guitar. 12th fret. Some others. 12th is easiest because it's right in the "center" of the string and the vibrations do not collapse, which you can actually see if you look at the string. Try and do the same thing elsewhere, and usually you just kill the noise.

        Artificial harmonics, that's something else, but it's a similar effect. IIRC. They work until the wave collapses, which usually mutes the sound enough where you can't hear it.
      • cease, on 07/22/2008, -0/+4@ danlowlite
        Actually, there are many more harmonics than just the one found by gently touching the center of a string, it's just that those harmonics are easier to find. Start at the neck of your guitar, and lightly slide your finger all the way down a string while plucking it. You should be able to notice many different harmonics on the same string. Anyways, a quick Wikipedia search will provide some images to help visualize exactly what is going on.
      • macweirdo42, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3I was thinking the same thing - if you play multiple harmonics of a frequency, the original frequency will be heard even if it isn't physically present. I don't see why that wouldn't work on a string instrument, though of course the reality of actually working out which frequencies to play and whatnot to generate the subharmonic is a lot more complicated than it sounds.
      • kaelyiesta, on 07/22/2008, -1/+4Right. This is how tiny earbuds can produce lower pitches even though they may only be able to play frequencies of 200Hz and higher. They play the first few harmonics of the note, and our ears hear the fundamental frequency despite it not being present.
      • robbiemuffin, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2on guitar you create harmonics much like described above, on a violin. but it is simpler, you only need to touch the string. what is happening is that the vibration escapes beyond your finger, and both ends of the string vibrate. there's your two different notes. (do it on the right fret and you have a harmonic.)

        but that's just any harmonic. How do you get the scondary sound to be longer than the maximum of the string?
    • Stupidumb, on 07/22/2008, -3/+102She's probably just humming the note while she pretends to play.
      • PorchSong, on 07/22/2008, -5/+12Dude, that was funny. Thanks for the chuckle....
      • Stupidumb, on 07/22/2008, -6/+1Go ***** yourself. I'm not here to make you laugh.
      • PorchSong, on 07/23/2008, -1/+3Yes you are. You are my puppet: Now dance, puppet, DANCE!!!!!!
      • Stupidumb, on 07/23/2008, -1/+2Is this to your liking?
    • billyf1, on 07/22/2008, -7/+15not really, she's using a violin...
      • Stupidumb, on 07/22/2008, -2/+6I don't understand how people don't get your joke.
      • diggydougie, on 07/22/2008, -3/+2Not really what?
    • mojoface, on 07/22/2008, -3/+1She's obviously a time traveler from the future.
    • theOster, on 07/22/2008, -1/+27A WITCH!!! BURN HER!!!!
    • afx1, on 07/22/2008, -1/+16she better stop violating the laws of physics if she knows what's good for her
    • PhoebusApollo, on 07/22/2008, -1/+12Violin: 1, Science: 0
      • Cenobite, on 07/22/2008, -0/+7Crazy theories: 1, Regular theories: a billion.
      • DforSpiD, on 07/23/2008, -0/+2I knew it, the Loch Ness Monster's book was right!
    • tobikow, on 07/22/2008, -1/+7MAD VIOLIN HAX
    • aroundtown, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1Except that she explains it, follow the link from the article, I found this part interesting:

      "DB: But you can also use the open G string to create degrees there like the minor second and major second, right?"


      mmmmm open G stringgggg aaalllllllllgggg
  • steve9924, on 07/21/2008, -3/+57Looks like the Norwegian researchers startd a couple of years ago, but I can't find any published results ... I'd really like to know what they found out.
    • had3l, on 07/22/2008, -7/+14I have a simple theory: It's caused by the friction between the bow and the string, and not by the vibration of the string.
      • Gartland32, on 07/22/2008, -1/+9Well it sure is a good thing you're here to clear that up for us.
      • drgmdp, on 07/22/2008, -4/+16HYPOTHESIS, not theory
      • americaskate, on 07/22/2008, -1/+4In a Violin vibration is caused by the friction between the bow and the string.
    • diggydougie, on 07/22/2008, -2/+1Now that's real science. Not like fiction where a disease shows up and they find a cure in a day or so.
    • megaton, on 07/22/2008, -0/+26I agree: her bow, jerking or hopping at a rate twice that of the frequency of the note she's playing, could definitely cause this sub-harmonic phenomenon. The bow, in effect, interrupting every other oscillation of the string, would cause string to vibrate at half its natural rate, therefore making a tone an octave lower than it typically would. With careful control of the bow and a transfer of the energy of the string's natural vibration to the bow, I could see how it's possible for a person to do this on demand. The uncertainty of the note played at the end of the audio clip further supports this suggestion.

      As an aside, it's ironic that a bunch of diggers (non-scientists) are digging down your theory down because you (a non-scientist) are a non-scientist. Their non-scientific opinion obviously supersedes your non-scientific opinion. Obviously.

      And yes, you are right to use "theory" as a synonym of "hypothesis."

      Oh, did I mention I'm a professional acoustical engineer? (*psst* That means I'm a scientist.)
      • megaton, on 07/22/2008, -0/+8EDIT: Had a typo. It wasn't supposed to be "a rate twice that of the frequency of the note she's playing." It was suppsosed to be "a rate equal to that of the frequency of the note she's playing."

        The former would be impossible for a human to do. (And wouldn't even have the right effect.)
      • thatguydr, on 07/22/2008, -0/+9YES! Oh dear god is it sad that the only correct answer has only 10 diggs.

        I'm a violinist and a physicist. It's easy to produce these notes but VERY HARD to sustain one at a specific pitch. And that, to me, defines the mechanism.

        Ordinary strings vibrate at the fundamental, which means that they are held at both ends and the length of the vibration is 2* the length of the string (if we're defining the wave). If you pluck the string with your finger, it makes a POP noise and resonates. (Remember that.) When you bow, the rosin causes micro-contact with the string (and a micro-displacement), so you're driving (adding energy to) the string without physically pulling it a large distance, allowing it to vibrate at the fundamental.

        A VERY SHORT string is difficult to bow, as the micro-contact (and subsequent micro-displacement) from the rosin can interfere with the actual "width" of vibration.

        The subharmonics likely occur because the bow is GRIPPING the hell out of the string at one end. This changes the ordinary "width" of the vibration - the micro-displacement (or a sum of a few of them) effectively BECOMES the width of the vibration. (You've "removed" the "held" end of the string nearest the bow.) Of course, you're only pulling the string in one direction, so the pull to one side followed by the slip-back would likely cause the actual waveform to NOT be sinusoidal.

        The same physical effect is the initial pop of pizzicato (plucked strings), and the fact that I find it damned-near-impossible to sustain a single note when I'm playing sub-harmonics (I get "croak") is because my bow technique does not evenly pull the string at a single frequency (but rather a large mix).

        Does that make sense? I wish I could draw pictures here, since it really doesn't seem that it's all-too-difficult of a mechanism to understand. If one took the teeth of the saw and made them "pluck" and made their spacing very small, that's basically what the bow is acting like...
    • steve9924, on 07/22/2008, -0/+6Here's how she does it:
      http://www.marikimura.com/bundler_interview.html

      look at #6 "how I discovered subharmonics"
  • Mish4, on 07/22/2008, -32/+9well what if you take a string and bend it, so that it stretches a little. like an open string but stretched out a bit, not sure if that would create a lower sound. But i cant really see how its that big of a mystery, maybe they can watch her perform it, and see how she is playing a string. I think just looking at it mathematically, that oh you are limited by the length of the longest string, as to how low you can go, isn't the best approach, since i am sure there are some finger techniques you can do.
    • steve9924, on 07/22/2008, -0/+44a stretched string increases the tension and makes a *higher* pitch, not a lower one....
    • tjrecord, on 07/22/2008, -0/+4You're right, you should send an email to all those scientists who have been studying the phenomenon for years. I'm sure your insight would be enlightening for all of them.
    • Lewie, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1I know on a guitar, if you bend the neck forward (towards the strings), it loosens them, making a lower pitch.
  • bouche, on 07/22/2008, -27/+16where's the included audio?
  • MarkusGarvey, on 07/22/2008, -13/+89i wish i could see a video of her doing it....maybe bending the neck in is all i can think of...
    • Neiby, on 07/22/2008, -4/+9I'm pretty sure you'd damage and/or break the instrument if you bent the neck enough to get a pitch that low. It will be interesting to find out how she's doing this.
      • steelese, on 07/22/2008, -0/+12It would depend on the instrument. Younger stringed instruments do bend toward the bridge. This general stops after about 1 year. The longest I have heard of curing time was 3 years. Once the wood cures, it doesn't bend anymore. Maybe her violin is made of a highly elastic wood. Probably not. Read my comment further down to see my idea.
      • Hackenslacker, on 07/22/2008, -0/+11It's a clean octave jump, no bending.
    • khsheehan, on 07/22/2008, -3/+7And I think scientists would have figured that one out. It's clearly (yes I am really saying this) out of the level of intelligence of Digg.com Although you are a smart bunch.
      • Regbooker, on 07/22/2008, -0/+23"Although you are a smart bunch."

        Yes, watched your profile and you're new here. Don't worry, soon you'll find the sad truth.
      • lazlonger, on 07/22/2008, -0/+6this is a BIG group and their are lots of smart motivated people here...I'm not sure where you stand in that estimation....come on!

        regarding bent necks. it works with guitars but less with violins and such with super short stout necks. plus the amount of bending needed to go this for down in pitch is too much, it would break first, or string tension would be too low anyway.
      • flossdaily, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2The power of a 1200+ minds should not be underestimated. In a few short decades, all problems that stump the experts will be thrown onto the net to be attacked by the masses.

        We've already seen how detailed multi-level mental puzzles are quickly dissected and conquered by a few hundred humble diggers- a feat that no single human mind could accomplish in the same time period.
    • joegibes, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3My 30-second evaluation is that two overtones on the string interfere to create a much lower sound (longer wavelength). I'm probably wrong, but I'm just throwing that out there.
      • barnett25, on 07/22/2008, -0/+4That effect should actually produce a higher sound (such as a normal harmonic note).
    • shlemielo, on 07/22/2008, -0/+8There's a video of her playing here with several examples of "subharmonics".

      http://youtube.com/watch?v=XNzL75a_dD8

      I've played violin for quite a while, but I've never used this technique in a real performance. It's fairly simple to do. you just need to press down very hard with the bow, flatten out the hair, and play closer to the fingerboard. By doing this, the string vibrates at a slower rate than normal, and you create the effect of a lower note.
      • narcofiche, on 07/22/2008, -1/+3Wow, that video is awesome. I'm going to have to buy some of her stuff if it's available.
      • RadiatedAnt, on 07/22/2008, -0/+11I wish I could unhear that :(
      • ummagummas08, on 07/24/2008, -0/+2What it sounds like to me is kind of like when you rub a guitar pick down the strings of a guitar sideways - it makes a lower sound than normal - apparently she can control it though.
    • megaton, on 07/22/2008, -1/+4It would be impossible to bend the neck of the violin enough to drop the frequency of the note A WHOLE OCTAVE...without breaking it.

      What ***** idiots are digging you up? Not musicians, I'll tell you that...
  • AmyVernon, on 07/22/2008, -6/+6too cool...
    • Stupidumb, on 07/22/2008, -15/+1She looks like a bitch.
      • rationalist, on 07/22/2008, -1/+6Appropriate screen name. Thanks for self-flagging.
      • Stupidumb, on 07/22/2008, -16/+2LOL OH MAN WHAT A "DIS". YOU TOTALLY GOT ME!!! I bet you impress the ladies with that wit, huh!? The deep-rooted psychological aspects of that kind of insightful humor are completely out of my capabilities as a human being. In fact, I think you're the only person on earth who could have derived such a complex and involved insult from something as inocuous as a screen name. It took me a while to even understand your comment; about a few minutes of staring and then a group discussion between myself and 5 colleagues. If you hadn't made that wicked-ass joke/insult I would have never thought that anything similar would be even remotely possible, but you have proven otherwise. You king among men. You giant among dwarves.

        After all this time and writing, I realized something else that I almost completely missed: YOUR DIGG SCREEN NAME IS RATIONALIST. Now, this may just be a coincidence, it looks like screen names dictate what kind of person is behind the keyboard!! I mean, with your rationally superior comment, I must assume that you are a rational person, and that obviously stems for your DIGG USER NAME BEING rationalist. Of course, it could also be that you were always a rational person, and then decided that "rationalist" would be an appropriate name for yourself. A perfectly rational thing to do.

        But, for my own sake, I hope the former reason is true; you chose the name, rationalist, and then became rational. The reason for this hope is that I may have a chance to better my self by way of an intelligent screen name. Being in the slump I am now, it will make it difficult to choose one, but I am hopefull. Something like "smartperson" or "logicapplier" or "sarcasmmaster". Wait, that last one is not consistent and seems too arrogant. I mean, to consider oneself a master. Even if one was a master, it would not be very modest to boast such a thing.

        But I digress(what does that word even mean?), you sir, are truly a master of words, originality, comedic timing, logic, and, of course, rationality. It humbles me to be in your presence and I hope others may bask in your intelligent light.
      • bakajojo, on 07/22/2008, -1/+2o rly
      • Rentinu, on 07/22/2008, -1/+1Holy *****, you are you kidding me?
      • ezcheezbandit, on 07/22/2008, -1/+3stupidumb this is not the first time I have seen you write an essay when someone points out your screen name is appropriate for your intelligence level....

        ...and you get buried every time because no one cares.

        I might be the only person who actually read your whole comment and I must say, you have too much time on your hands. Stop polluting the internet with your (un)witty diatribes.
      • Stupidumb, on 07/22/2008, -3/+1@Rentinu: Yes.

        @ezcheezbandit : Stop following me. Also, if you know I'm so (un)unfunny, why do you read my stuff?
      • WELLDOITLIVE, on 07/22/2008, -2/+1Stupidumb, just shut the ***** up. You sound less and less intelligent with every post you make and nobody wants to hear your crying.
      • Stupidumb, on 07/22/2008, -1/+1*****, was is your problem, WELLDOITLIVE? Why you so angry at me? Why do I sound less intelligent?
      • ptsuk, on 07/22/2008, -1/+1ezcheezbanditezcheezbandit unfortunately it is his canned response when people point out his name foible. But he does care to take the time and "personalize" the hate with some tripe about that persons handle ;)
      • Stupidumb, on 07/22/2008, -1/+1Wow. Why do you people hate me so much? It's like I offended each of you personally.

        First, I'm not sure you know what "foible" means, but I did not choose my name by accident.

        Second, you say my response is "canned"? I responded similarly in the past, eh? People keep making that same tired joke and for some reason, most diggers think it's the funniest ***** ever.

        You say I talk "tripe about that persons handle"? Are you serious. You honestly don't see the irony when I say stuff like that?

        I am not personalizing hate. I'm not even "hating. I'm givig you people some explanation. You guys seem to hate the ***** out of me. I really don't know why. It's like my original comment about the musician being a bitch really pissed you guys off.

        Why is personalize in quotes?

        Do you people honestly not understand simple concepts?

        Are you angry at me because my comments are long. Are you angry because I was sarcastic? I really just want to understand. I'm not even angry because you guys seem to be acting out of some kind of anarchic rebellion.
      • DforSpiD, on 07/23/2008, -0/+2It's nothing personal Stupidumb, they are just angry in general
    • MxM111, on 07/22/2008, -1/+1They definitely included wrong picture on digg. She is much hotter than those harmonics...
  • akpwnz, on 07/22/2008, -9/+4That is a trip.
    • ptsuk, on 07/22/2008, -7/+4No!
      . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _________
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      . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _,,,--~~~~~~~~--,_ . . . . ._________/
      . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,-‘ : : : :::: :::: :: : : : : :º ‘-, . . /. . . . . . . . . .
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      . . . . . . . . . .,-‘ : :: :: :: :: :: : : : : : , : : :º :::: :::: ::’; . . . . . . . .
      . . . . . . . . .,-‘ / / : :: :: :: :: : : :::: :::-, ;; ;; ;; ;; ;; ;; ; . . . . . . . .
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      . . . . .,/ /|| | :/ / : : : : : : : ,’-, :: :: :: :: ::,--‘’ :,-‘ . . . . . . . .
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  • Neiby, on 07/22/2008, -7/+153This is extremely interesting, but that music makes me want to kill kittens.
    • Stupidumb, on 07/22/2008, -1/+26I...don't think it's because of the music...
      Just take a deep breath
    • kenplaysviola, on 07/22/2008, -4/+3And this is what contemporary composers are writing these days because there's nothing left to write.
    • amishx64, on 07/22/2008, -4/+2*goes to check on cat*
    • mrgreenjeans, on 07/22/2008, -1/+2Kinda had a brown-note effect on me
    • brentinkc, on 07/22/2008, -0/+5Lolcats makes me want to kill kittens.
  • Papajohn56, on 07/22/2008, -11/+387Nothing "defies" physics, they just have to redefine what is currently known
    • steve9924, on 07/22/2008, -3/+27well, I guess the title was a bit toungue in cheek - hence the cheeky "so far".

      it "defies" explanation at this point tho :)
    • Stupidumb, on 07/22/2008, -21/+4***** man, this isn't an XKCD comic. Just lay off.
      • Stupidumb, on 07/22/2008, -13/+2*****, religious people always get a bad rap cause they, apparently, blindly believe in something and follow the crowd when it comes to their religion. They get a bad rap from plenty of people, especially "internet people".

        But *****! Make fun of a sub-par, pretentious web-comic, and you will be ***** on. ***** on by the same people who seem so dilligent in their devotion to that comic out of what only seems to be a sense of obligation. It's strange because, unlike religion (which is invisible and magic and not science and therefore totally lame and false), XKCD is real and you can see it. It is tangible (in a sense) and you can know it for what it is, yet people still go bat-***** crazy for it.

        Oh well, it's cool to be smart, right? It's also cool to rub it in people's faces!

        I wouldn't know though, I mean, look at my screen name. It says it all. Whoops, did I steal your joke?
      • stonedthot, on 07/22/2008, -2/+6Go smoke a doobie and chill the ***** out.
      • ezcheezbandit, on 07/22/2008, -2/+5Oh dear, stupidumb you've done it again. Another buried diatribe. Don't be a litterbug.
      • Stupidumb, on 07/22/2008, -6/+1@ezcheezbandit: Buddy, I think you have a thing for me...
        Haha, yeah, I got buried by people on the internet. Man, why do I measure my self worth by how many people agree with a comment I make on the internet? I mean, you're all obviously geniuses; you don't even have to make a point. You just insult!
        "Don't be a litterbug", that's even kinda cute. Passive aggressive comments make you seem like a badass because you insult someone but also appear to "keep your cool" while doing it. It's as if to say "I'm gonna follow this guy on digg and bury all his comments, but I'm gonna act like he doesn't bother me."

        By the way, just because my comment may be regarded as a diatribe, does not mean it is inherently incorrect or deserving of the oh-so-feared bury.

        Comment lengths vary depending on what needs to be said. Sometimes, more needs to be said and elaborations are required. Again, this doesn't make anything immediatley false.

        How I choose to spend my time is my own business. Writing these comments don't actually take much time.

        How long do you spend monotering my activity and hovering over the bury button? By the way, every time a comment of mine gets burried, I feel a little sad for a while.

        Now when you bury this, are you doing it because you think I'm wrong, or do you just not like what you read.
      • ezcheezbandit, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1...sigh. You ruined the internet. Get ready for four more paragraphs of suck from stupidumb.
    • Synyk, on 07/22/2008, -12/+4there's a "(so far)" in the title. smartass needs to RTFT before posting.
      • IKORKYI, on 07/22/2008, -2/+5smartass needs to RTFC before posting
    • username7410, on 07/22/2008, -6/+2Well isn't that convenient!
    • Nauru, on 07/22/2008, -3/+7I don't care what you say,
      LOLCATS DEFIES PHYSICS.
    • Swateke, on 07/23/2008, -0/+5It's funny how a load of ***** can impress enough diggers if it's just formulated well enough.

      Physics is a human science. Defying the laws of physics is possible, if the laws formulated by this science are broken. Physics isn't some subcategory of nature, it's the study of a subcategory of nature.
  • steelese, on 07/22/2008, -10/+271As a classically trained cellist, I would go about it this way. Press extremely hard on the string, then proceed to push your finger toward the bridge. Now this is were it gets sticky. You would need a lot of friction on you finger so as not to slip down the string, but rather drag it with you. Now here is were it is possible being a violinist, and not so much for us cellist. When you play at extremely high frequencies you need to get very close to the bridge. Chances are she picks up so rosin from the area here bow contacts her string. I have seen here play, she uses circular bowing like I do, thus she is all over the strings as she plays. This would increase here contact with rosin. So rosin is very sticky and would increase the friction between her finger and the string. This would allow her to drag the string with her finger. This would then lower the tension on the string between her finger and the bridge thus creating a low not.

    This is just my well educated guess. Chances are she started tensing up as she was playing, that would be in line with her age when she started doing it. At that age there is a lot of performance fear. This caused her to pull her arm and fingers in and thus made her play sharp. You tend to play sharp when you're tense and flat when you don't care. Don't know why, it's just that way. Because she was obviously a trained to be a virtuoso, she used increased pressure to compensate for the slippage. It then became a habit and as she continued to do it she became stronger. Enough so that she created the effect.

    So there you go. Physicist prove me wrong.
    • hypogenic, on 07/22/2008, -5/+17I just play guitar casually but that's the first thing I thought about this also. Will try after work at home to get impossibly low notes. Wait. I have FR. Forget it..

      New idea: need patent fast - a Floyd Rose for violin.
    • jjjjjjb, on 07/22/2008, -0/+50These are actually called subtones. They've been around for a while, i.e. at least 20-30 years. What you do is bow very hard and slowly - not so slowly as to make the sound totally break up - if you use a little more bow than that, the subtones will emerge. The sound that comes out is a minor 9th below what it 'should' be. You need to bow more towards the fingerboard than you normally would.
      (There is a piece by George Crumb that makes use of this extensively - he even notates the resultant sounding pitches - cannot remember the name of the piece right now).
      *Why* it works this way is another question.
      • steelese, on 07/22/2008, -0/+13I've done the whole sub tone thing, The problem is this is several octaves bellow a normal violin register. If you listen to the music you notice everything is a glis. I'm not saying that the subtone bowing technique isn't involved, I believe there is more to it.

        I pulled out my cello and was able to lower the not significantly through a friction pull.

        I also know how the bowing technique works. If you think of a bow as millions of tiny fingers picking at a string it will is easier to understand. Each time the string is picked it snaps back and then rebounds, only to be picked again by the bow. This happens extremely fast, on the A string 440 times per minute. When you put pressure on the bow you slow down it's snap and rebound. This creates a significantly slower frequency. The reason it is the minor 9th is because of where the bow sits in proportion to the string.

        This isn't noise cancellation, like throat singing. Think of it as a damper.

        The reason why I don't think this is it. The sound has a creaky hollow sound. This has that hollow sound, which is why I don't rule out bowing techniques all together. However, the resultant sound of this violinist is much smoother. The other issue is one of the amount of friction that can be produced. Even with bass rosin on the bow, the friction could not overcome the tension on the string sufficiently.

        Oh well, I could be totally wrong. In which case you win. FTW

        EDIT: I also realized I had my gut strings on, which would make it much easier to stretch the string as you drag it.
    • coffeebot, on 07/22/2008, -2/+9how to create a low "not"

      since they didn't show a video of it, I tried it. by bowing slower, the bow's micro-jerks which produce the string vibration cancel the higher tones. all she did was isolate a low tone and amplify it. it's more of a trick.

      vocal equivalent would be Tuvan throat singers who amplify one of the overtones which is already present but which your brain filters out to imagine a more pure tone.
      • nextyoyoma, on 07/22/2008, -1/+2except that throat singers isolate harmonics that are HIGHER than the fundamental pitch, not lower.
      • coffeebot, on 07/22/2008, -0/+4if Tuvan throat singers aren't parallel enough, then consider Tibetan monks.
      • Frost9999, on 07/22/2008, -1/+4Listening to the recording it sounds exactly like this, and before I read your comment I was thinking the same thing. Surely it's a matter of making a slow-motion video of the bow acting on the string?

        Nobody defies physics!
    • steelese, on 07/22/2008, -0/+6Someone had the idea of alternative cancellations. I think this has merit. An up and down vibration because of her circular bowing could produce a canceling sound. I've messed around with moving the bow up and down. It does produce sound. I just don't see enough.

      I've also produced some weird sound by taping the body with my hand. This are much more pronounced. So I don't think that is it.

      I noticed more evidence to my dragging theory. If you listen, the sound almost pops back to it's normal octave range.
    • JakeyG14, on 07/22/2008, -3/+12I'm a classically trained physicist and it IS indeed possible to exceed the velocity of light, so maybe that has something to do with this...maybe?
      • WMGoBuffs, on 07/22/2008, -0/+5You think she's playing a Cherenkov violin?
      • Kormiku, on 07/22/2008, -3/+3wahahahaha so hilarious!!! beans for you sir, beans for you!!! hahaha
    • StevenJV, on 07/22/2008, -1/+1Does that mean you took a intro to physics course in college?
    • OneStepAhead, on 07/22/2008, -5/+5you seem edumucated so i dont understand your spelling problem
      • whoawen, on 07/22/2008, -1/+9Is it inconceivable to you that not every person on digg speaks English as their first language?
      • theOster, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1i'm hoping they're joking...
    • exboxer, on 07/22/2008, -3/+0my thought exactly, and choose a different word to start your sentence with rather than "this" for Christ sake.
    • appleofdischord, on 07/22/2008, -1/+1I don't understand why steelese's comment was dugg so much. It didn't make much sense and it didn't explain anything. I read it through 3 or 4 times just to make sure I wasn't missing something.

      I've got a theory myself. A string on a violin has got a fixed node on either side. By pressing hard and dragging the bow across the string, it might cause the point the bow is resting on to act as an anti-node instead. (It's moving back and forth with the bow.) If that's the case, then it changes the effective length of the string (L) to twice the length (2L). If I remember correctly, that'd correspond to an octave lower.

      The only problem with this theory is that before doubling the length, you've shortened the string length to the distance between the bow and the scroll rather than the bridge and the scroll. As a result you'd get a lower note, but not quite an octave.

      I'll have to check this on my violin when I get home.
      • onlyclave, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1Pitch = frequency. If the string is allowed to vibrate naturally then it will vibrate at its tuned pitch. If you somehow retard the string vibration period you will get a lower pitch. She is doing that with excessive bow weight or sliding her left hand fingers with rosin on them along the string.

      • appleofdischord, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1The only way to lower the frequency is to increase the length or decrease the tension. Since you can't just... create slack, it's got to be somehow increasing the length. Further supporting this is that the sound sample doesn't have a gradual lowering of the pitch. It's basically a jump down an octave and back up again. Reducing the tension would be a gradual slide.
      • kh99, on 07/22/2008, -0/+0"I don't understand why steelese's comment was dugg so much."

        Because it's digg - sure, scientists studying it aren't sure, but all the geniuses here are certain of the answer just by reading a short article about it.
    • kh99, on 07/22/2008, -0/+0Just one problem, steelese - the example mp3 says it's an open G.
    • BigMouthBass, on 07/22/2008, -0/+0So happy when I find intelligent conversations on Digg. :)
    • ummagummas08, on 07/24/2008, -0/+1HER and WHERE and you will have conquered the english language.
  • Lane, on 07/22/2008, -7/+159I just had an awesome idea. Suppose all matter and energy is made up of tiny, vibrating "strings."
    "Okay. What would that imply?"
    "I dunno."
  • cubbiesx, on 07/22/2008, -2/+92Impossible music > Alternative music
    • Amadeus2490, on 07/22/2008, -0/+4You can live the Rock 'n Roll Lifestyle, you can live the Hip-hop lifestyle, but you really can't live the Alternative Lifestyle, can you?
      • HMMcKamikaze, on 07/22/2008, -0/+10Or the Impossible lifestyle, for that matter.
  • Renton, on 07/22/2008, -9/+4I don't know much about violins, but on a guitar, you can make a string sound lower by palm muting it. It doesn't seem likely, but she could also be playing in such a way that transfers the vibrations to the bow (or whatever that thing is called). Modified strings would be likely, but I'd think the researchers would test that out first.

    Anyway, here's a video from her site
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=XNzL75a_dD8
    • Lewiji, on 07/22/2008, -0/+5Palm muting doesn't affect the pitch, it effects the dynamics.
    • doingallright, on 07/22/2008, -0/+6Palm muting does not make the guitar sound lower, all it does is make the guitar play less notes. It is only a dynamic and expressive technique, not pitch.
  • tsiros, on 07/22/2008, -14/+8defies physics? oh puh-leez.
    just because the sounds a REAL violin creates can not be produced my the ideal/theoretical model of a violin doesn't mean we've bent the rules.
    jesus...

    defies physicists, maybe. physics no.

    also, as far as violin goes... contrast her to him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG05yLlt_FA
    ok maybe i am a bit harsh :>
  • Lunarsight, on 07/22/2008, -9/+9Watching the video on her site, I want to throw out one other possibility - is the audio being manipulated electronically, perhaps?

    Some of the lower tones do sound wave-stretched to me. (The 'pulsing' of the lowest tones is a common product of some kinds of pitch manipulation. I've played with it in Adobe Audition.)

    Obviously if she's played this live, I would have to throw out this particular theory.
    • Lingur, on 07/22/2008, -0/+14So would this be the audio equivalent of "photoshopped"?
      • Lunarsight, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2Heh - yeah - I suppose.

        I'm not intending my above comment as a slam.

        Electronically-manipulated or not, the end result is still quite interesting.
      • ericmerrill, on 07/22/2008, -0/+5"I've heard this before without the manipulation. Obviously protooled."
    • rancidpony, on 07/22/2008, -1/+6Why is this hypothesis being dug down? It is already claimed that they do not know how this is done. Until we know how they have performed the test we have to consider this a plausible explanation. Or have we simply never seen something fake on digg before?
    • screamthenrun, on 07/22/2008, -0/+6Pulsing is common with sound like subtones in general..
      it's caused by wave interference.. i can't remember what it's called, but we learned about it in physics class this year

      EDIT:
      http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/phys/Class/s ...
      scroll down to where it says Beats and beat frequency in red typing
    • stonedthot, on 07/22/2008, -0/+5Fair enough hypothesis but I really doubt scientists would investigate it without hearing it live..
    • acbrimm, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1The beats mean that the notes aren't exact octaves... You can here beats when you hit octave on a guitar at the 5th position on the octave A's, D's, E's and so forth if it is out of tune between strings. Tighten or loosen the string while beat is resonating to tune the instrument. She just isn't able to completely control the lower octave to be perfectly in pitch; don't blame her either.
      • Lunarsight, on 07/23/2008, -0/+1Yeah - I'm aware how notes that are slightly out of tune will create 'beats', but what I was hearing actually reminded me of what I can do using Adobe Audition's pitch-shifter. When you slow down waveforms using certain methods, it created a very similar sound.

        I'm not saying that's definitely what she did here. It's possible she may be doing this entirely with the violin. Although, since people aren't sure how she's doing it, I figured I would at least throw out the idea.

  • browman, on 07/22/2008, -1/+9I reckon it's all about bounce, you get the bow to resonate, cancelling out half of the vibrations of the string. It's going to be one of those knack things, which you can't explain to people, but comes instinctively to her. Probably relatively easy to do by accident if you're no good at violin (like me)... getting it to sound nice is the real miracle here. I suspect that if you're an experienced player, and never had a go at this, it's going to be nigh on impossible to get it.
    • PaulRay, on 07/22/2008, -0/+5Ah! That was the first thought I had. resonance between the bow and string dividing the frequency. I wasn't alone! I've messed with violin, but am actually a guitar player, so I can't be sure.
      My other thought was that having Physicists try to figure this out might be the wrong approach. Many times, scientists in a particular field have been "fooled" due to the fact that they don't have training in the area they are trying to analyze.
      I think of Uri Geller, he fooled many scientists and it took a magician, The Amazing Randi, to bust him.
    • steelese, on 07/22/2008, -2/+1You would have to be extremely fast to create any kind of resonance. and if you did bounce the bow it would bounce right of the string. It is a technique used to create staccato.
  • bcstereotype, on 07/22/2008, -1/+10Fascinating, though the shortness of the article leaves me wondering if the whole story has not been told.
  • xroni, on 07/22/2008, -11/+3Lol. I don't hear anything in that audio example that defies physics.
    • elDud3rino, on 07/22/2008, -2/+1That's because it defies physics...duh. lol
  • Sal4, on 07/22/2008, -0/+26Well that article had an unsatisfying conclusion...
  • Abomonog, on 07/22/2008, -1/+6She is doing it by dampening the strings just enough so they cannot perform short vibrations. You then rake the bow with an even lighter hand. It's just a guess but I bet it's spot on.

    If you watcher her video posted by Renton you'll see that despite being a violinist she plays a style very close to slide guitar. (and she is pretty good at it)

    And she is not playing sub-harmonics but rather false harmonics I would bet. A video of her pulling this off is in order. Rentons submission doesn't show the effect.
    • nextyoyoma, on 07/22/2008, -1/+1This doesn't make any sense. When you play a string, the pitch that you hear is the result of the rate of vibration of the string. That, in turn, is based on the mass per unit length of the string, and the tension of the string. Therefore, without reducing the tension or increasing the mass per unit length, there should be no way to produce a tone lower than the fundamental.
      • bronskrat, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1Read what Abomonog wrote again.

        I'm with that hypothesis until I see a better one further on down.
      • joegibes, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1However, when you play a string, not only does the fundamental sound, but also a large amount of overtones that are higher than the fundamental note.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtone
      • nextyoyoma, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1read MY post again. You are missing the point that the "overtones" can never be LOWER than the fundamental.
    • budgetguitar, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3I agree with your dampening theory. Barely overcoming the dampening effect with a stronger bow motion can create this sub-harmonic effect. Similar to palm muting with an electric guitar. If you only hear every 3rd or 5th vibration, the illusion will seem like a lower tone.
      • NOFXY, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1palm muting is the first thing that came to mind, although i wasn't sure if it's possible with a violin. probably just pressing hard with the bow is enough like so many people above me said.
  • WhoBob, on 07/22/2008, -6/+1A simple question: Why do physics have door bells.!!!!!!
  • Sinudeity, on 07/22/2008, -7/+2Reminds me of harmonics on a guitar. Perhaps she is merely hitting a harmonic
    • steelese, on 07/22/2008, -1/+3Harmonics don't go down. They are only divisions of a note and can go up.
      • dafragsta, on 07/22/2008, -0/+4Ever play a guitar with a bow? Harmonics without continued friction go up. If the bow doesn't have good traction but still grabs the string and sorta "stutters" really fast, it does sound like it goes lower. Listen to the range of dynamics of me doing this one one string on a bass (yeah, I know it's a bass) You can hear like 3 discreet octaves of harmonics.

        http://www.makesomethingcool.com/samples/Bowed%20B ...
      • lebatte, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1Did either of you notice the word "subharmonics" in the article?
  • SHUUTOBI, on 07/22/2008, -1/+6In other news, a staggering amount of violinists seeking new sounds purchase FIVE string violins and experiment to lower tunings...

    :|
    • Amadeus2490, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1There are actually classical compositions that require one, or all of the instruments to use an altered tuning (usually to town down half a step). Classical purists use popular tuning from the era, which is a bit less than half a step down from our standard.
    • serif69, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2Dream Theater is already working with violin luthiers to produce a 30-string violin.
    • sabortijuana, on 07/23/2008, -0/+1While I was still playing violin and viola (stopped due to injury) I looked into getting a five-string violin so I could play some of those amazing cello pieces. The range of a cello is bigger than that of a viola, but I just wanted to play that Shostakovich concerto so bad! :p
  • sega01, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2This seems like it shouldn't be that hard to figure out. The body of the cello can be used to produce sound, so she probably bumps it in some way. Or perhaps the strings could have two different motions at once (up and down, side to side), operating at different frequencies.
    • steelese, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3I like this. Maybe her pattern of circular bowing creates and up and down vibration that helps to cancel out the side to side. That could be it.
  • stefbishop, on 07/22/2008, -2/+1On an electric guitar with a bit of distortion, play fret 14 on the top E string and fret 12 on the string next to it. Try playing that shape at various positions. You will hear apart from those two notes, a very strong note an octave lower than that of lower of the two strings.

    • troon, on 07/22/2008, -1/+2Aren't you just exciting the second harmonic of the low E string by doing that?
      • Magnes, on 07/22/2008, -1/+2Very exciting discussion.
      • stefbishop, on 07/22/2008, -0/+0No! Try it
      • thelizardreborn, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2Try it with the low E string muffled, and see if you still get it.
  • Wilzer, on 07/22/2008, -7/+0Ewww. sounds like she could use a little practice
  • Jeffool, on 07/22/2008, -1/+23Um, you guys aren't really paying attention to the nuance of the article. (Though, to be fair, it's easy to miss.) It's not a question of how it happens (she outlined it here: http://www.violinist.com/discussion/response.cfm?I ... ) it's a question of 'why it works.'

    For what that's worth, I dig this lady; find something you can do, and kick people's ass with it. Also, she has a blog: http://subharmonics.blogspot.com/

    Shame Diggers, where is your Internet-fu?
  • stefbishop, on 07/22/2008, -1/+4The link gives you some redirect html.
    My PC wont handle it. But if you read the code you will find:
    http://homepage.mac.com/marikimura/MAIN/octave.mp3 which does work

    Having heard it now, I still can't be sure she wasn't farting...

    But then the strings aren't vibrating freely, so all simple physics answers are out. Must be flatulance. QED
  • LeRenard, on 07/22/2008, -0/+5I figured out how to do this as a kid on a cello, or at least another method to sound notes lower than the strings natural low. What you do is "stutter" the bow so the string is artificially being vibrated at a low frequency, and the string carries the sound through the instrument. It isn't vibrating at that pitch in open air, its slipping and popping on the bow strings. I wasn't able to tell if she can let the string ring at the lower pitch or not without the bow.
  • DeFex, on 07/22/2008, -1/+2I guess the bow is only "pushing" the string every second cycle. crazy technique to do that!
  • nebben, on 07/22/2008, -2/+2Does anyone else not have big boobed women on their ads all the time too?
  • theradical, on 07/22/2008, -1/+62oh my goodness, she's discovered the brown note!
  • nextyoyoma, on 07/22/2008, -16/+3Ok, you guys are (understandably) putting forth a lot of theories that show your ignorance of string playing. One of the more popular theories here has to do with the "cancellation" of vibrations from her circular bowing. Circular bowing is is a fancy way to say that when you change from one bow to another, you move your hand in a slightly circular pattern to avoid completely stopping your hand. The bow MUST stop, if only for an immeasurably small moment, but there is no way for the horizontal motion of the bow to completely change direction without stopping. Circular bowing just helps to decrease this time that the bow is stopped. Circular bowing would not even be an aspect of what we're hearing here, because what we're hearing is not simply at the beginning or end of a stroke. Even if that were not the case, circular bowing is not some magical technique that allows you to defy physics. Virtually every well-trained string player uses this technique.

    Also, many of you seem to lack an understanding of physics and why this is so remarkable. When a stringed instrument is played, the sound you hear is the result of the vibration o
  • nextyoyoma, on 07/22/2008, -2/+15Ok, you guys are (understandably) putting forth a lot of theories that show your ignorance of string playing. One of the more popular theories here has to do with the "cancellation" of vibrations from her circular bowing. Circular bowing is is a fancy way to say that when you change from one bow to another, you move your hand in a slightly circular pattern to avoid completely stopping your hand. The bow MUST stop, if only for an immeasurably small moment, but there is no way for the horizontal motion of the bow to completely change direction without stopping. Circular bowing just helps to decrease this time that the bow is stopped. Circular bowing would not even be an aspect of what we're hearing here, because what we're hearing is not simply at the beginning or end of a stroke. Even if that were not the case, circular bowing is not some magical technique that allows you to defy physics. Virtually every well-trained string player uses this technique.

    Also, many of you seem to lack an understanding of physics and why this is so remarkable. When a stringed instrument is played, the sound you hear is the result of the vibration of the string. The rate of this vibration determines the fundamental pitch of that string. That rate is determined by the factors of the string's mass per unit length, tension, and length. In theory it should be impossible to the change the pitch to a note lower than the fundamental without increasing the string length, decreasing the tension, or increasing the m/ul.

    My theory is that our understanding of the physics of the vibrating string is flawed. Brass players can produce tones lower than the easily obtainable "first partial" by actually playing the fundamental. I believe that the sound produced by a normally vibrating string may not indeed be the fundamental, but instead the first partial. Guess we'll se.e.

    edit : My last post may not have gone through. If it did, bury this one.
    • tribble222, on 07/22/2008, -1/+5The understanding of the physics of a vibrating string is extremely basic and in no way flawed. Take a look at it yourself. Most likely she is not allowing the string to vibrate freely.

      -a physicist
      • dmd53, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1Minus the snark, I agree with tribble. It's easy enough to determine the fundamental of the string-- just find the midpoint and pluck it. That said, a forced oscillator (that is, when some outside force like a bow drives the vibration) will vibrate at the frequency of the force, not the resonant frequency of the string. Perhaps she bows the violin at such a rate that she is driving the string at some non-fundamental frequency.

        The only problem left is the amplitude of the note played. Theoretically the string can be forced to vibrate at any frequency, albeit quietly, and the closer that driving frequency is to the resonant frequency, the louder the note. Will the body of the cello amplify some 'subharmonic' enough that this is audible, or does the subharmonic have to be some small-integer fraction of the resonant frequency (Would this even make a difference?).
      • floatingorb, on 07/22/2008, -1/+1She could be causing the string to vibrate in a longitudinal manner, somehow.
  • sh0rtstop00, on 07/22/2008, -2/+4A broken violin is what she has!
  • JMellissa, on 07/22/2008, -10/+5Play Guitar Hero all you want. You will NEVER come up with something new. This phenomenon is truly fascinating!
    • Syphon8, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1No one has FC'd One before, if I do it, that's something new.

  • Quicksilver4648, on 07/22/2008, -5/+13Don't listen! Its the brown sound!
  • orlyfactor, on 07/22/2008, -1/+1She looks like she's about to whack some non-music lovers on the head with that violin in the picture.
  • scutter, on 07/22/2008, -1/+3No big mystery here: The bow is skipping (catching and releasing) on the string at a frequency lower than the "lowest frequency" of the string.

    Another way to do this would be with an external device that vibrates at the lower frequency. Imagine the strings lowest frequency is normally 220 Hz. Now you take a device vibrating at 110Hz and hold it to the violin string. You would get a sound like this - a 110 Hz fundamental with lots of very strong harmonics.
    • mc_hambone, on 07/22/2008, -0/+4Yeah, all it takes to produce a 1 octave subharmonic tone is to add amplitude to the up or down "stroke" of the vibration of the string, even when it is vibrating at the original frequency. Since frequencies usually have a complete cycle (up to down, rinse, repeat), any acoustic changes (even the addition of "normal" harmonics) to either the up or down half of the cycle will therefore produce a tone that is an octave below.

      Being that this is a bowed instrument, it seems pretty obvious that this is what is happening, though the details of exactly how may still be a mystery.
    • floatingorb, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1I like this explanation of yours so I cited you below. But I also threw in my own hypothesis that this 'bouncing' is going down the string toward or away from the bridge to cause the string to vibrate in a LONGITUDINAL manner. Any merit to that? {I've been toying with this idea on the guitar by rubbing a fingernail down and can get some creepy sounds, some of which seem very 'reinforced' at times. Of course, the guitar string has 'ribs' but I think the bow bounce is just as relevant for a smooth string -- Like rubbing a damp finger on a wine glass.}
    • cyclopropene, on 07/22/2008, -1/+2From the explanation page it states that "Normally, the open G string is the lowest note on the violin."

      So you're saying that she has another device vibrating below her open G-string?
  • doob10163, on 07/22/2008, -3/+5Guys, it's magic.
  • smurfsahoy, on 07/22/2008, -1/+9One thing that nobody has mentioned yet, and that is not ruled out in the article, is that these low frequencies don't actually exist at all. There's a psychological illusion called the "missing fundamental" illusion. If you hear a number of frequencies that are all multiples of one another, you will hear them as having the pitch of the lowest multiple, EVEN IF that lowest multiple does not exist.

    For example, if you hear a 1,000 Hz tone, a 1,500 Hz tone, and a 2,000 Hz tone all mixed together, your brain will interpret it as a sort of weird 500 Hz tone, even though there is no such tone actually in the air. If a violinist were to play 2 or more almost perfect frequencies that are multiples of a lower, nonexistent frequency, then the audience would hear a tone that a violin shouldn't be able to produce. But it wouldn't be violating any laws of physics, because the tone they hear isn't real, just imagined.

    In theory, if you play the violin precisely enough, you should be able to produce PERCEIVED (but imaginary) tones as low as the ear can hear - around 20 Hz or so, like a distant fog horn or something.
    • steve9924, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3not true, the frequencies are actually there.. look at it in sound forge
    • DeFex, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3Its not missing, its a beat frequency, radios couldn't work without it.
      • smurfsahoy, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1Alright, that makes sense, but it's beside the point. I'm just saying that you can take two high frequencies, both of which the violin can play, and you can use them to create a perceived lower frequency that the violin cannot play by itself. And it isn't anything terribly magical or bizarre.
    • ozydingo, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2What about non-linear distortion? A violin string isn't a perfectly linear system, so if there exists as input 2 or more frequencies, you can get difference frequencies out.
    • hakluytbean, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1Is this the 'resultant' effect mentioned in the comments to the article? If so smurfsahoy is arguing in favour and some are arguing against, I think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resultant_(organ)
    • LesPaul75, on 07/23/2008, -0/+1This is a common musical trick. Anyone who has ever played a "power chord" has done this. Just pick up a guitar and play any two adjacent strings (like maybe D and A) at the same time. You'll get a low rumbling bass note that is clearly lower than either the D or A alone.

      Adding two sine waves produces a third sine wave with a frequency equal to the difference between the frequencies of the original two.

      I don't think this is what's being discussed in the article, though.
      • smurfsahoy, on 07/23/2008, -0/+1Why not? It obviously isn't just your average example of this effect (with two strings at once), but it could certainly be something like a nuanced way in which a single violin string produces two mathematically compatible tones that isn't obvious, but is actually just the same thing.
      • ozydingo, on 07/30/2008, -0/+1"Adding two sine waves produces a third sine wave with a frequency equal to the difference between the frequencies of the original two."
        In a linear system, this is absolutely not true. You will however get periodicity in the summed waveform at a frequency equal to the difference, but that does not always mean you will perceive a pitch at that difference frequency. You often don't, for example if you play a major third interval you're not going to perceive the difference frequency as a pitch.

        Guitar amplifiers are of course generally highly nonlinear :-)
      • LesPaul75, on 08/01/2008, -0/+1You're right, I didn't word it correctly. You won't get a sine wave, but you will get a wave (of some sort) that contains a frequency equal to the difference.
  • duckyinc, on 07/22/2008, -1/+1So it was possible, it was just discovered now.. wow /s
  • asleepy0, on 07/22/2008, -1/+2She's playing the cello. Duh...
  • omgdspmpg, on 07/22/2008, -1/+6You know, I'm a sound guy. And if there is one thing I notice: other sound guys ALWAYS love to show off how much they know. Most smug people ever.
  • mrgodai, on 07/22/2008, -4/+28Violin of Subharmonics
    Binds when equipped
    Violin
    Ranged
    Speed 1.7
    1 - 1 Damage
    (1 damage per second)
    Durability 90 / 90
    Requires Level 67
    Equip: Chance to confuse scientists for 1-2 days
    • mystikraven, on 07/22/2008, -1/+19Actually, that would be 0.59 damage per second, if the Speed is 1.7.

      Man, I'm pathetic.
  • ShaneMcDeath, on 07/22/2008, -1/+3Look at her.... defying the laws of jive
  • i2kdave, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1I feel like I'm in an Argento movie
  • m00n3r, on 07/22/2008, -0/+7maybe she's just in drop D
  • operationcougar, on 07/22/2008, -1/+3shes actually the tallest person on earth and that is a cello stuck under her chin.

    or i say its a standing wave, that would be easy to get with two harmonics.
  • Amadeus2490, on 07/22/2008, -0/+6What they didn't tell her, is that they replaced her violin with a viola.
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