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Gulf War Syndrome Soldiers Neurologicaly Different, Brain Scans Show
eurekalert.org — Veterans of the first Gulf War who returned with multiple health symptom complaints show significant differences in brain structures from their fellow returnees without high numbers of health symptoms, according to research that will be presented at the American Academy of Neurology ’s 59th Annual Meeting in Boston, April 28 – May 5, 2007.
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- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -11/+1[humor] Researchers found that two areas of the brain involved in thinking and memory were significantly smaller in the veterans with a high number of symptoms than in the veterans with fewer symptoms. The overall cortex was five percent smaller in those with more symptoms, and the rostral anterior cingulated gyrus was six percent smaller.
In other words, veterans who went to Iraq have smaller brains.... who knew!?[/humor]
[devil's advocate] So all of these people have the same symptoms and same shrinkage in the brain. Couldn't have been caused by a disease not from the region, something they contracted at home? Perhaps the heat simply exacerbated the condition. Dozens of possible causes for degenerative brain disorders, perhaps the brain problems are causing many of the other symptoms they've been having/claiming to have.[/devil's advocate].
Interesting research, but no way to tell if this is going to be repeatable with other veterans who supposedly suffer this disease, especially with such a small current sampling (36 individuals).- superal1394, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Yes, war causes issues with the brain, no ***** *****. The mind is insanely powerful, its been show to be able to physically alter people. If you throw some one into the stress of a war like Iraq, they will never be the same, and this is just the physical evidence that they have suffered permanent mental damage. While it may not effect the ability of some to function, it is obviously effecting others.
Imagine what could have been wrong with the vets of WWI & WWII and we could just never see it? - nocre, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's not only stress. Well, strike that, not -every- case is only related to stress. My girlfriend's father was in the first Gulf War. He was involved in water purification (yes, just like Paulie Shore). When he went over, he was fine. It wasn't incredibly stressful for him, despite his entire group being abandoned in some airport hangar for days when the military forgot about them (true story).
When he returned, after much hassle by his then wife and my girlfriend's mother, he was.. different. He was prone to fits of anger, he'd have involuntary muscle spasms, he would twitch/shake/jerk, he stuttered, he would repeat himself often (and to this day tells you the same thing/story every time you see him), forget things easily and so on. He'd been given all manner of experimental injections and pills while he was in the service, and they're largely presumed to be what did him in. When they gave his wife his medical report (which was meant to contain everything that'd been done to him), it was in a thin manilla folder. It's a long story, but let's say she made a lot of phone calls. She spoke with some fairly important people, and eventually was given a 'more thorough' medical report by, what she assumes, what either some top military brass or an agency official. About half the size of a manilla folder, this information was about 2 1/2 inches thick.
Sadly, I've never been able to read it. She buried it somewhere 'on the hill' (where he still lives) almost a decade and a half ago, presumably frightened by how it all came down. Only she and him seem to know where it's located. I imagine if I ever got my hands on it, it'd definitely be published online. - AWeeBitInsane, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing. Owwwwwwww. Sing it again yall. Yo niggah sing it. Absolutely nothing. Owwwww yeah. What is it good for? Nothing niggah. Say it again niggah. SAY IT!
- superal1394, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Yes, war causes issues with the brain, no ***** *****. The mind is insanely powerful, its been show to be able to physically alter people. If you throw some one into the stress of a war like Iraq, they will never be the same, and this is just the physical evidence that they have suffered permanent mental damage. While it may not effect the ability of some to function, it is obviously effecting others.
- laserblazer, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6The ***** they make the soldiers take to 'protect' them on the battlefield is what's causing this.
The pharma companies love this human testing.- superal1394, on 10/12/2007, -8/+6You are an idiot. plain and simple. The 'evil' pharmacuetical companies are extending our lives many times over what it would be without any form of medicines or drugs. They are making life easier for those who are chronically in pain, making life possible for the mentally ill, saving those with life threatening diseases that would be otherwise rampant.
Evil, sure. They may charge out the ass, but they have, in my mind, damn good reasons to. If you hate them so much, protest Viagra, not life saving drugs. - MisterFlaut, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Pharma is not in it to save your life.
They are an industry. Industry exists to profit. Pharma does it from your illness by selling you their cure versus treatment from other, more natural tried and true methods.. and they jack the prices up in the process.
It's actually a pretty big issue going on in the country now (prices of necessary scripts). Sometimes people have to pay out the ass (for example - $50 for 5 pills to treat bronchitis that they're now pushing to people instead of other, cheaper anti-biotics that work just as good).
Insurance companies don't like coughing up the money so they jack up rates, which makes everyone suffer. - floatingpoints, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Flaut is right.
I actually work in the industry. Not too happy about it from a moral standpoint, but the economy isn't so great so a job is a job..
But Pharmaceuticals is a corporate entity just like any other company who operates solely on profit and their own interests.
Don't believe it? Ask yourself this question: can a poor person without insurance afford treatment from Pharmaceuticals?
If they could (which they can't), then yes, they would be working for your interests. Next time you get a prescription, check out your insurance statement to see exactly how much it cost. Not what you paid out of pocket, but the total cost billed to your insurance. It's terrible.
- superal1394, on 10/12/2007, -8/+6You are an idiot. plain and simple. The 'evil' pharmacuetical companies are extending our lives many times over what it would be without any form of medicines or drugs. They are making life easier for those who are chronically in pain, making life possible for the mentally ill, saving those with life threatening diseases that would be otherwise rampant.
- acteg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4If any of you have ever lived/worked on a big base you will see/smell the amount of different chemicals/fuels that some of our service men are exposed to on a regular basis. I worked near the flight line at a major AF base, and the stench of jet fuel was often very pungent, even 100s of yards away from the planes and inside buildings. Sometimes it smelled very strongly of degreasers and antifreeze. This is at just one base in a peacetime setting, can you imagine what our soldiers are exposed during war time? Do you think there are health and safety inspectors in the war zone?
- opticsnake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8As we left our base in Al Taqaddum on missions we had to drive by a trash pile that was perpetually on fire. I don't know what was burning in that thing but it definitely didn't smell healthy.
Then there were the gunners. Our unit was comprised of 5-ton trucks with steel gunboxes in the beds. The gunners had to ride along breathing in the diesel exhaust issuing from the stacks on our trucks during 5 to 11 hour missions.
When we returned from deployment we had to fill out a questionaire concerning what we were exposed to and whether we were experiencing any signs of PTSD. The government is tracking this stuff but, who knows when or if the general public will ever see those numbers. - edosmund, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I was stationed in both TQ and Baghdad (Liberty). There were garbage fires all of the time in both areas. It was considerably worse in Baghdad. I'm not sure what a year's worth of garbage fires and diesel fumes will do to the average soldier or marine, but it can't be healthy.
- opticsnake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8As we left our base in Al Taqaddum on missions we had to drive by a trash pile that was perpetually on fire. I don't know what was burning in that thing but it definitely didn't smell healthy.
- opticsnake, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4While this is an interesting step I don't think that it actually shows anything.
If they want to find out what the war does to Soldiers' brains they need to do a pre- and post-deployment scan of their brains. Get that kid that's fresh out of basic training (or better yet, before he even goes there) and do a brain scan on him. Then, track those kids as they return from the war to see what, if anything has changed. I'd be willing to bet that the scans would be drastically different.- SpaceMonkeyZero, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Only if at the same time you do brain scans of other kids who don't go into the military. Especially ones who go off to flunk out of college and do drugs all day in the mom's basement, posting on Fark.
- justinmt7, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1oh but I thought Saddam didn't have chemical weapons or WMD's?
- opticsnake, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3RTFA
This concerns Soldiers from the Operation Desert Shield/Storm not the current conflict. Yes, Saddam used to have WMD's everyone knows it. Plus, the Soldiers were exposed to smoke from oil fires, burning vehicles destroyed by depleted-uranium rounds, and intense levels of dust.
That's what's being discussed here, not the current situation in Iraq. - justinmt7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1dont be stupid. people use this argument all the time to try to disprove wmd's/bio weapons in iraq.
- opticsnake, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3RTFA
- OGROK, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6During the Gulf War soldiers were exposed to potentially large amounts of depleted uranium (used in shells, armor etc), similar to the way Vietnam vets were exposed to Agent Orange. These symptoms are probably a side-effect of exposure to these heavy metals.
- detrate, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1They were probably smoking too much pot
http://www.digg.com/politics/Cannabis_disrupts_brain_centre - Pozer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1can any one say "X-files"
I believe
tune in : X-files song - keyguy242, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3The Brain scan results were as follows: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0?
- IEatHamburgers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8ARE WE DONE YET?!?
- Cutkomp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I hope they didn't leave pallets of diet soda sitting out in the hot desert sun...
- crashflow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1i'm sure halliburton is making sure only the best food, drink and services are supplied to the troops...
- TheVetos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2We need Big Boss's DNA to fix the defective Genome Army
- caution, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It isn't DU. If it were, people would have gotten sick long before the gulf war. I know from very personal experience. Even at NTC we used live sabot rounds, and that range was nearly always going. (go on range detail, it's EVERYWHERE)
I really hope, for the sake of the few who are sick, they can one day find a specific symptom and relate it to service in Gulf 1. But, as much as they've tried to pin this thing down, they can't. - ADDHITMAN, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"manchurian candidate"
- lymie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Listen to Superal1394. It is indeed possible and similar to what has happened to Morgellons sufferers. Wait and see, you will be hearing more in the very near future. A good debate is healthy but when you leave no room for credible info to enter your mind, you lose big time (and in more ways than one). If you value your own health, you will look into these situations further. I'm not blaming the government or anything/anyone else specific at this point, I just know something is very wrong.
- matthewmok, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1There is obviously going to be a difference between a hypochondriac scam artist brain and a normal one.
- victorkruger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Oh great, now I have to measure my brain?!?!?!
- nowends, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWLjXDtAvAY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yryiAAv20ZQ - Maceebe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0The fact that war changes men's minds is apparent. Seeing your comrades killed has to leave a scar on your soul. If you have not already, watch Full Metal Jacket, a Stanley Kubrick film. You'll see what I mean.
- ASSASSYN, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Didn`t investigators conclude that gulf war syndrome was caused by radioactive dust from depleted uranium rounds from the A-10, and M1 Abrams.
- MadOgre, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2This study is flawed.
The same thing was found in homosexuals... a part of the brain was different from "normal" brains. But what they didn't evaluate in this or the homosexual study was that if this difference in the brain was there before they went to war or not. Was the difference a likely cause of the syndrome or a symptom. They should have studied the troops before they shipped off to fight, then again after to see if any change occurred and if those with the GWS were effected differently by the experience. Same for the homosexual study, scan youth... track their progress, see if the ones with difference were more prone to becoming homosexual or not. Of course now it is politically incorrect to even say such things about homosexuality, but my psychology text books all included it until just recently.
/abnormal psychology major specializing in combat post traumatic stress
// 8 years Light Infantry.
///Could that mean I have a Doctorate in Infantry?- AxeSwinger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Mad
You're right about having pre and post scans plus a control for a typical study of effect of something but as I understand it the imaging technology is much better now and would not have been possible in 1989. Additionally, the study stated that their findings did not prove causality only gave correlation. It seems a bit silly to say the study was done incorrectly when Gulf War Syndrome did not exist until after the war. How could you set up a study to investigate the effects of a condition before you even have the condition.
Also, it would be unethical to do the type of study you're suggesting because by virtue of the pre-screening you as investigator would be using men and women as lab rats, by allowing them to go into harms way without safety precautions to limit exposure, last I checked most ethics boards frown on that type of research.
- AxeSwinger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Mad
- victorkruger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1MadOgre, I believe that would be a Doctorate Lite
- gibbwake, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"Gulf War Syndrome" Is depleted uranium poisoning in the troops lungs! This is being covered up. If you support the troops, get the word out about depleted uranium. This is an article by the guy in the armed forces who tried all he could to get it banned, he was ***** but he is doing what he can to get the word out. http://www.ratical.org/radiation/DU/DRonDU2000.html
- AxeSwinger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Thats one school of thought but not the only one. Burning oil wells, off gassing of new equipment, pesticides, demolished building material...the list goes on.
- dfeifer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1hmm.. reminds me of a few range cleanups I was on. those neat really light blue squares that Go round the threaded sabo rounds.. collecting the rounds off the down field and throwing them in the back of a deuce...
course then there was the year and a half i spent in northern iraq during the first war,.. pre.. shield... storm,.. opc-1.. opc-2 jtf6.. blah blah blah..
did everything from deep insertions, sling loads, troop hauls, medivac. transporting demo. teams to destroy Iraqi weapons etc. was a blackhawk crewchief.
And was in the best health of my life at the time, so i thought. 142lbs..
Of course once I returned to germany, I had to do everything I could to keep from gaining weight like crazy, started getting cysts all over my body, 60-70 now,. visual problems, hearing problems, balance, memory, incontinence, tremors in my hands, muscle spasms, and rigidity..
Everythings come on very slowly over the years, and I never wanted or chose to point any fingers anywhere, I just wished to figure out what was wrong with me. saw different specialists over 5 years or so, didn't arrive at any conclusion, other then the fact that i had SOMETHING. Family finally talked me in to going to the VA,never really wanted to go,. and nothings come of it, tho it has only been what,.. about 2 years now. Figure the will finally find out what is ailing me when i die. I actually always hoped that it was something simple, they could fix it, and I could re-enlist. I miss my MOS. 67T1F
- tuzziel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Aren't they Mercs with pay 5x - 10x times US average? I think those risks are included in that extra-high mercenary wage. Also they joined willingly and knowing the risks, wounded soldiers count is still marginal so thats good risk/revard ratio after all.
- dfeifer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0heh,.. if you consider 1200$ a month at e-4 at the time an extra-high wage..
- greenjohnsmith, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Warm and hot sodas are simply no good. Some of you may know what I am referring to.
- ninjaSteak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0How about we call it Depleted Uranium Syndrome instead?
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