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Should we worry about soya in our food?

guardian.co.uk — Whether you know it or not, you'll probably be eating soya today. It's in 60% of all processed food, from cheese to ice cream, baby formula to biscuits. But should it carry a health warning?

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  • RabidNinja, on 10/12/2007, -10/+13We sure are great at overprocessing everything we can get our greedy little hands on.

    digg it up!
    • merm, on 10/12/2007, -19/+27The key here is "in large quantities" it's not healthy. NOTHING is healthy in large quantities, people die from drinking too much water, eating too much meat, too much processed food etc.

      Many cultures eat TONS of soy products and have far fewer health problems than the United States or Europe. Think of how much soy Japanese or Chinese are getting in their diet, yet they have among the lowest rate of obesity and heart disease in the world.

      It's processed food, excessive fats, carbs, protein (read: an unbalanced diet) that is unhealthy. Not eating a moderate amount of soy.

      There's rumors out there that if you eat tofu or drink soymilk you'll grow man-boobs. Give me a break.
    • sik0fewl, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20@merm

      Read the article before commenting please:

      'Fitzpatrick, however, looked into historic soya consumption in Japan and China and concluded that Asians did not actually eat that much. What they did eat tended to have been fermented for months. "If you look at people who are into health fads here, they are eating soya steaks and veggie burgers or veggie sausages and drinking soya milk - they are getting over 100g a day. They are eating tonnes of the raw stuff."'

      And there's even more information on it if you have time to read the entire article.
    • RabidNinja, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12@merm

      Well, if you read the article you would find out that we are eating much more raw soy than any of the asian countries, and our processing techniques fruther increase the levels of phyto-oestrogens far beyond what's normally present. And as far as "in large quantities", that's exactly what the article is describing, the fact that we have managed to fit soy into just about every food source we consume, and are therefore practically forced to eat soy "in large quantities."

      "Fitzpatrick, however, looked into historic soya consumption in Japan and China and concluded that Asians did not actually eat that much. What they did eat tended to have been fermented for months."

      "What the committee also pointed out was that the way soya was processed affected the levels of phyto-oestrogens. Traditional fermentation reduces the levels of isoflavones two- to threefold. Modern factory processes do not. Moreover, modern American strains of soya have significantly higher levels of isoflavones than Japanese or Chinese ones because they have been bred to be more resistant to pests."
    • rebrad, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15Soylent Green is People!
    • helloracecar, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16The Japanese only eat fermented soy? I call shenanigans.
      One word: edamame.
    • Lanser84, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5@RabidNinja

      Jeez, why would we want to greedily grasp at products we see benefits of? Unbelievalbe that vegetarians would eat so much of this stuff so they can still have a healthy amount of protein in their diet with some convenience.
      /sarcasm

      Now, through science, it appears there are some risks with this too. Now food companies should "greedily" look for other better alternatives, and vegetarians should be sure to eat more peanut butter and fish instead of so much soy to "greedily" protect their health.

      Quit smearing the act of trying to make things cheaper, faster, and better-tasting (when at the time there were no signifcant known health risks) as "greedy."
    • itanshi, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7edamame? mm whole soy bean, well i can't speak for statistics, but i don't think its a health risk
    • itanshi, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4edamame? mm whole soy bean, well i can't speak for statistics, but i don't think its a health risk

      edit - least its not over processed
    • healthynerd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@merm:
      No, the key here is FERMENTED SOY v. NON-FERMENTED. It's not only the amount that matters. People from the Asian region knew how to prepare their soy food by fermenting it. During fermentation process the phytochemicals, phyto oestrogen and phytic acid among others, are avoided from consumption.
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@merm
      Excessive fats and protein?
      There's no such thing as excessive fats and protein. Fats and protein should be the main part of your diet for health.
    • mikkaworkscom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1As far as i know soya contains a lot of protein, so don't seem too bad to me.
      --
      Visit my organic clothing company in China http://www.mikkaworks.com
  • Kaioshin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+31I won't worry about it until it's call Soylent (specifically Green).
    Come on, name me ONE thing that can't harm us when consumed in large quantities?

    Besides, lately people are overdoing it with this sort of thing. Why don't we just inject the daily requirements of various nutrients into our blood stream directly? Or would it have bad effects, too?
    • dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Ray kurzweil does so. Three or more intraveinous treatments per week.
    • solarwinds, on 10/12/2007, -9/+14There was a study last year that showed that multi-vitamins supplements cannot substitute the nutrition you get from eating real food. It is related to the way your body digests food, where artificial vitamins and nutrients just won't work as effectively as real food.

      Anyway, as I'm a vegetarian and depend hugely on soy for protein in my diet, I can't help but wonder that this article was written by the meat industry to put down meat alternatives made with soy. Soy vs meat campaigns have been going on for years, and I'm healthy as ever. If anything, meat is what clogs up heart arteries, gives you high blood pressure, and makes you become obese ----- which is worse than any possible side effects of soy
    • C00001, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9"Come on, name me ONE thing that can't harm us when consumed in large quantities?"

      Umm, how about carrots? Or apples? Also, and the results aren't in yet, but it looks like bananas are non-toxic.
    • camiller, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5solarwinds

      The article says the soya increases the protein in processed meat products. Hardly something the meat industry would admit if the story were a plant (no pun intended).
    • drgruney, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@C00001.... yes they are healthy... but the question was name one thing that doesn't harm us in large quantities. Aside from the obvious joke that a crate full of bananas could crush and kill you, try eating nothing but bananas for a day and not get sick.
    • ericmoritz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8To many banana's will give you a potassium OD, which will give a made case of the squirts. Other ill effects come with most vitamins if eaten in excesses.
    • CourageousRobot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Yeah, and too many carrots will turn your skin orange. Maybe not unhealthy, but a little silly.

      http://orangeman.commo.de/
    • UnderWurlde, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@C0001: Eating carrots in large quantity is toxic; the beta-carotene in the carrot is a fat-soluble vitamin (A), and as such accumulates in the body, whereas apples with ascorbic acid (vit. C) is water soluble thus gets thrown out in the urine if unused. Side effects of excess vit. A are as bad as liver disease. Look it up if you're interested.
    • millixaw, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"Come on, name me ONE thing that can't harm us when consumed in large quantities?"

      Sex?
    • whatevermoron, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0They aren't talking about large quantities, unless you define 100g/day as "large".

    • tallgreen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@solarwinds

      I'm not saying soy is bad, but you don't need to rely on it for protein. It's a bean, you can get great protein from most any bean providing you mix it with rice to complete the amino acid set. And as for meat being a cause of health problems? rubbish. My wife is has been a vegetarian for 15 years and I eat meat everyday. Meat works for my body it doesn't work for hers. I'm skinny as a rail and have low blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. She gets ample protein from fish, eggs, and dairy. It's all about balance and what works for you, not avoiding bad stuff.

      In relation to the topic, raw soy should not be consumed like it is. In it's raw form it has a strong medicinal action, estrogenic in nature. It helps with menopausal women, but aside from that, stick with tofu and miso when consuming soy.
    • JohnyD, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"Come on, name me ONE thing that can't harm us when consumed in large quantities?"

      Clean air. :)
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Actually, a potassium OD will cause cardiac problems. a MAGNESIUM OD will cause the squirts.
  • maiku00, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Soya = Soy ?
  • right75, on 10/12/2007, -13/+14Sounds like more fear-mongering by the health/food nazis.

    No digg.
    • niczar, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2RTFA. It actually debunks the myth of soy as a health food. Veggie are nuts ... err eat the nuts instead of meat, and it might not be that good for them.
    • m0nk, on 10/12/2007, -8/+8I agree that it's fear-mongering. It's a war on vegetarianism...

      Besides, scientists can never make up their minds on what's healthy and what's not.
    • millixaw, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Eggs are good.

      Eggs are bad.

      Eggs are good.

      Eggs are bad.

      ....The yolk is bad, the whites are OK...

      Make up your mind! IT'S BREAKFAST, I GOTTA EAT!

      - Lewis Black
    • Murdats, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1or maybe its just we cant tell what is scientists and what is propaganda, so the scientist need to retest to re-prove his point, and the propaganda has to pay someone off to pretend to test and make up their point again
  • Langford, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Soy often leaves a funny taste behind anyhow, especially when they try to use it a a substitute for other things. Not to mention it's tendency to exaggerate flatulence. In the end it probably has more to do with how much they use, than whether or not they use it.
  • dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -17/+3Are there some meatpeddlers worried about getting rid of their animal carcasses?

    Too bad. Within a few years nobody will be able to afford meat. Good riddance to them.
    • cazabam, on 10/12/2007, -13/+10In a few year's will all be able to enjoy a culinary experience unfettered by the problems of taste or texture. Just think, in the future you could avoid all that tedious cooking by simply serving bland white cubes!

      Seriously, vegetarians, STFU! It's not a religion, it's not a task to convert the heathen meat eaters, and based on medical research it's not even a healthy lifestyle choice. Just spare us the irritation. Please.
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1And whatever we don't finish, we can use as stucco to fix any cracks in the walls!
  • idesign, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Anyone got the coles notes version of this article? (some of us are working.... sort of)
    • mabba18, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Short Version: Everything You Eat Will Kill You!
  • Teaboy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3I know a few veggies that practically live off of the stuff, maybe this will entice them into trying a bacon sarnie!
  • elephantdog, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5GMO soy or just regular soy? Regular soy has been eaten for hundreds if not thousands of years by long-lifed people in Asia. The popular GMO strain on the other hand has shown to increase lab rat deaths.
    • Canthros, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3You need to at least scan the article. The consumption of soy in Asia vs consumption of same in the present-day West are compared. It's not just a difference of strain (although that factor is significant).
  • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10FERMENTED soy has been eaten for a long time, although it was originally developed as fertilizer..
    I try to stay away from unfermented soy. It damages thyroid tissue causing hypothyroidism, can promote female cancers and keeps you from absorbing many minerals and vitamins. It also can cause birth defects.
    Any so called 'health benefits' are lies promoted by the soybean industry.
    http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/
  • etresoft, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18Supposedly one should only eat Soy products after fermentation. That is why people in Asia don't have problems with it.

    I try to avoid it myself. I try to avoid any products that are put into food for the sole purpose of making it cheaper or increasing shelf life. Eat local. Eat fresh. Know what you are eating.
  • airship, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11I'm in Iowa, the heart of ADM and Cargill country. Everywhere you look there are fields and fields of soybeans.

    We ship trainloads full of soybeans out of here every day. You know what we eat? Beef and pork. :)
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Can you send me some? A nice bloody rare slab of cow sounds tasty right now!
    • CrankyPants, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Hell yeah. Vegetables are what food eats.
    • etresoft, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Crankypants,
      Actually, if you're lucky, your food is eating hormone/chemical-injected genetically-modified grain that it was never created/evolved/intelligently designed to eat. If you're not so lucky, your food is eating ground up remnants of other food.

      Is there anything more fun than a spongy brain full-o-holes?
  • kris2pe, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0Its weird reading the article bcoz he keeps on mentioning isoflavines, omega 3 & 6 which are documented good for the heart & body! I don't really understand that & BTW yes asians have high intake in soy beans from soy sauce to tofu!!!! And yet he considers Asians as healthy bcoz they have lower risk of breast cancer & all that!!!
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Isoflavones AREN'T healthy. They damage thyroid tissue and accelerate brain aging.
  • denjin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Some of this article is BS, sorry. From the article:
    "Christopher Dawson, who owns the Clearspring brand of organic soy sauces, agrees. He lived in Japan for 18 years and his Japanese wife, Setsuko, is a cookery teacher. "I never saw soy beans on the table in Japan - they're indigestible."

    100% wrong. I lived there for a while myself. Eda-mame=soy beans. Boiled eda-mame+salt makes a great snack with beer and lots of Japanese eat them. Are there any studies done that show any extra problems among Japanese?

    The article is perhaps talking about just raw or un-fermented I guess, but it's sorta crappily done. (tofu,shoyu,miso,eda-mame,natto, etc are eaten a lot)Does anyone have some real studies done on it that aren't paid by a party with vested interest on either side of it? The most popular shoyu in Japan is the same one sold here, kikkoman.
    • TedTschopp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The article mentioned that Edamame is made with young Soya, that has yet to have much of the 'bad' stuff in it.
  • blingfinger, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4If we were only meant to eat vegetables we'd have a mouthful of molars with no trace of incisors or canines to rip and tear meat with.
    • m0nk, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2Ah, but you don't seem to realize that meat digests slower than our digestive tracts were designed to process. By the time the meat is fully digested it has actually rotted.
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0@m0nk
      That's an old anti meat lie. How can something liquid and mixed whith acid even rot?
      Actually, meat digests FASTER than vegetable matter. Very rare/raw meat actually starts to digest and liquify while you're chewing it.
      Human digestive tracts are designed to eat mostly meat, not plants.
    • droid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0yeah quin, that's why i crap three times a day, minimum.
    • Sabin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sorry m0nk but you have it ass backwards. There is a reason why an herbivores digestive tract is several times longer and an omnivores or carnivores digestive tract. On the other hand I do eat my fair share of tofu. Agedashi rocks.
  • frosted, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1The article was fraught with misspellings. It's bunk.
    Soy is good for you. The argument they use is based on ONE study and NO clinical trials in humans. It's like saying "carrots are bad for you because you can poke your eyes out kid.".
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6WRONG. There's been MANY studies done that prove they AREN'T good for you.
      http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz
    • moracity, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3If you actually read the article, you would see that it not just about soy, it's about how it is used. In it's raw form it is NOT good you. It actually needs to undergo proper processing to extract the benefits the soy industry likes to advertise. Even then, it's not supposed to be the focus of your diet. It's use in Asia has always been supplemental. There are also recent studies linking heavy soy intake to certain types of cancer.

      You are just another example of the type of people that have crazy conspiracy theories about things that you don't agree with, but couldn't possibly be the case with something you perceive to be good. Soy was widely introduced to the U.S by Henry Ford, a supreme socialist in capitalist clothing...and adoring fan of Hitler. Certainly not the most auspicious of beginnings.
    • Teaboy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0I must have spelling missed the errors, can you point them out for me?
    • Teaboy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0I must have missed the spelling errors, can you point them out for me?
      (whoops)
  • pglee2005, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Soya bean plantations/planters have come under pressure recently for their role in Amazonian deforestation. BBC article http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/3681938.stm

    Something to think about regardless of health debate.
  • kingyubba, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3regardless how you feel about processed food, GM food, or organic food, you owe it to yourself to see the "Future of Food" documentary.

    http://futureoffood.com/
  • baltimoretim, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3A good rebuttal of the Guardian argument is over at the "I was Just Really Very Hungry" blog. http://www.justhungry.com/2006/07/a_problematic_r.html

    The blogger writes that the fermentation most soy undergoes is short and sweet and not dangerous.
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0ignore this
    • baltimoretim, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Quniadel: Ummm...why ignore this? The blog I linked to 1) is not my own 2) is written by a guy who grew up in Japan eating these foods daily and 3)the blogger writes about food all the time.

      It's a good food blog, and the post does well to criticize the Guardian's article. The blogger took the time to write it, and I'm not going to cut-and-paste it and steal page views from him. I guess I'm willing to be dugg down for it, but I don't understand why I should be.
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Sorry! Not your post, I meant my post. I posted a reply to the wrong person and couldn't delete it.
  • moracity, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Like anything else, over consumption of anything will lead to problems. The problem with western culture is that we rely too heavily on fad diets. Soy is certainly a "fad" item that has been injected into everyday food. They are doing the same thing with sucralose. They are injecting sucralose into normal food with no indication...it's not limited to "diet" products. You really have to read labels to avoid this type of stuff. I'm not a health nut, but I do like to be aware of what I'm eating.

    Vegetarians who rely heavily on soy-products are asking for trouble. There are plenty of ways to get the protein you need. I'm not a vegetarian, but meat isn't the focus of my diet. I eat far more fruits and vegetables than meat and I still enjoy occasional steaks and chops. I run, so I do boost my protein intake with an occasional protein bar, which is mostly soy protein. However, there are much tastier foods that will give you all the protein you need.

    Adult humans really don't need milk or a lot of protein. This is why so many adults are "lactose intolerant". It's not a "condition", it's actually by design. If you aren't active, too much protein can be as bad as too much fat and sugar...maybe even worse.

    If you want to be healthy, just use common sense. Everything in moderation and try not to rely on processed foods as the focus of your diet. There's nothing wrong with an occasional Big Mac.
    • tallgreen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I agree 99.9% But unfortunately, the occasional BigMac give me diarrhea.
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Adult humans DO need alot of protein and the 60g a day the 'experts' recommend is actually a deficiency causing level. Animal fats and animal proteins are the 2 most essential macronutrients for humans and in that order.
    • spikeyone, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0@Quinadal

      There is nothing essential about meat.
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@spikeyone
      Yes, there is.
      Cholesterol which is an essential nutrient for proper brain and nerve function, which explains why most vegetarians and vegans are crazy.
      REAL B12, not the fake analog stuff vegetarians use that doesn't work.
      L-carnitine, which is necessary for proper metabolism.
      Animal protein from meat is superior to ANY plant based protein.
    • droid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0god i'm having fun with you.

      "Cholesterol which is an essential nutrient for proper brain and nerve function, which explains why most vegetarians and vegans are crazy."

      another one of your blind observations. let's count how many vegetarians/vegans i see in the news committing unjust crime or violence, on death row, or in an insane asylum. most of the herbivores i know have mad brainpower and are peaceful people. maybe this observation is a farce ~ as i'm just suffering from improper brain function, though.
  • angrycoder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3As a bit of anecdotal evidence my mother and her friend were on Nutri-system for about a year, and a lot of their food has soy protein as a main ingredient. To make a long story short, her friend developed thyroid cancer and had to have it removed and my mom experienced reduced thyroid functions and now gets intense allergic reactions if she eats anything that contains even a little bit of soy. So just make sure you don't eat this every day on some kind of diet plan system and just use common sense picking what you eat.
    • UnderWurlde, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Could this be just coincidence? 2 out of 2... Or else wouldn't all Nutri-system clients have some sort of thyroid problem following their weight-loss? Extremely obese people often have a thyroid disorder which causes slow metabolism and thus the extra weight accumulating. This might have a lot more to do with it.
    • angrycoder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Actually, in her conversations with their customer service department she was told that reports to the company of soy allergies and complications from it were increasing. Also, her friend wasn't extremely overweight at all (maybe 15 pounds at most) and had no previous history of thyroid problems. My mom did have an preexisting thyroid condition, but it was, in my estimation, made about a lot worse than what it was before (they had to double her Synthroid dosage).
  • SmeRndmGy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I read an article last week about this, how soy has female hormones in it. They were saying that this was a good thing and menopausal women should eat it, but it made me not want to eat soy anymore. If all the men in our society are consuming female hormones every day maybe that is an explanation for the epidemic of pussification that is sweeping this country. Pink shirts, popped collars, makeup on guys, $200 haircuts.... It all makes sense now.
  • tallgreen, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1---
  • tablatronix, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2call it soy, soya sounds so damn gay.

    and
    " Parrots do not eat soya beans in the wild but the high-protein animal feed had been marketed in the US as a new miracle food."

    morons.
  • ASoggyWaffle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2no whats bad ppl IMHO is hydrogenated/partial hydrogenated oils and corn syrup, they are in everything,
    • Tiabin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Don't worry, there's plenty of things pumped into all of our processed foods that isn't good for you. I'm confident there's room for at least a few things in every product that is killing me bite by bite. :)
  • bistronaut, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Also, watch out for that dangerous Di-hydrogen Oxide. It's a known carcinogen and a small amount in your lungs can kill you (and does kill hundreds of people every year).
  • droid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ lancer & solarwinds

    fish is not a vegetable - and anyone who consumes such is not a "vegetarian".
  • mattjvw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Correlation is not causation. All these studies tend to single out one thing as "the problem" in Western diet. I think it's difficult and dangerous to blame any one substance. The obesity in the West vs. the lower incidence of certain cancers in the East could be affected by so many different variables -- genetics, diet, environment, etc. The article touches on this when it mentions that the increased amount of fish in the Eastern diet could be the reason for lower cancer rates (rather than soy). But by the same reasoning, the increased consumption of unnatural processed foods such as partially-hydrogenated oils and high-fructose corn syurp could be responsible for health problems in the West. I'm not defending soy -- I'm not a research scientist -- but out of context from the rest of the variables involved, the article seems to be pointing to soy as the culprit of Western bad health. My intuition is that soy has its positives and negatives, and just removing it from our diet by itself isn't going to make a whole lot of difference.
  • turbodigg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I used to drink soy milk, but once someone told me it had estrogen it was over. F'that.
    so now I drink rice milk....
  • droid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2a decent link: http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm

    and a nutritionist's response to the article:

    Felicity Lawrence’s article about the safety of soya in G2 was a triumph of misrepresentation; misleading in the extreme. She failed to properly introduce Dr Mike Fitzpatrick, mentioning that he was a consultant toxicologist in New Zealand in 1991 but failing to disclose Fitzpatrick’s links with the Weston A. Price Foundation who promote the consumption of butter, eggs, whole milk and meat. (Google ‘Dr Mike Fitzpatrick Weston Price’ to reveal his involvement in the ‘Weston Price Nutrition Information Army’!) The Weston A. Price Foundation has launched an intensive campaign against soya in an effort to revive the popularity of animal foods. Kaayla Daniels (also quoted in Lawrence’s article as author of the Whole Soy Story) is a member of the board of directors of the Foundation).

    I have read the government’s COT report to which Lawrence refers, it was designed primarily to assess the health risks of soya (particularly with regard to human infants), not to investigate the health claims as she suggests. The report concluded that the findings from a wide range of studies did not provide direct evidence that phytoestrogens can adversely affect the health of infants.

    Lawrence neglected to mention that the Joint Health Claims Initiative (who offer a code of practice for the food industry, enforcers and consumers, to ensure that health claims on foods are both scientifically truthful and legally acceptable) approved the following health claim for soya: “the inclusion of at least 25 grams soya protein per day as part of a diet low in saturated fat can help reduce blood cholesterol”. http://www.jhci.org.uk/approv/schol2.htm

    Contrary to Lawrence’s argument, much of the research shows that phytoestrogens can normalise levels of hormones. The VVF are far more concerned about animal hormones (oestrogens) in cow’s milk; these are much more powerful than plant hormones (phytoestrogens) and have been linked to cancers of the breast and ovaries and even teenage acne. Due to modern intensive farming practices, two-thirds of UK dairy cows are pregnant when milked, when hormone levels are markedly elevated, this should be far more of a concern.

    Lawrence describes how soya farmers are devastating the Amazonian rain forests but just briefly mentions that most soya, (80%), of the world’s soya production is fed to animals that we can eat meat and consume dairy products. The rain forest would benefit tremendously if more people became vegetarians or vegans, even if they ate more soya.

    http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/Multime...eport/7555.pdf

    Lawrence refers to the use of ‘Nazi technology’ in soya oil production in her attempts to discredit this plant food; this is quite clever, but not particularly ethical, journalism. The Guardian surely has a responsibility to present a balanced argument? This type of journalism must not go unchallenged. I would like to submit a more detailed (fully-referenced) article explaining why soya is not the new bogeyman that Lawrence would have us believe.

    I look forward to hearing from you.

    Justine Butler
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Well considering most nutritionalists don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, I don't listen to them. Animal fat/protein based diets are the healthiest. Vegetarian/ vegan diets will make you sick.
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's never been proven that saturated fats or cholesterol levels even have anything to do with cardiac health. Every study they 'claim' proves it is flawed by either lumping trans fats, which are artificially saturated fats, or an extremely high carb intake in with natural healthy animal fats.
    • droid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0that's strange. i've been living on an unprocessed food (mostly) vegan diet for thirteen years and haven't been sick. i guess the same goes for my herbivore girlfriend. i can't say the same for my omnivore coworkers that are constantly producing an ailment.
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1A vegan diet is NOT healthy. If you claim you're not sick, you are either lying or living in denial.
    • droid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0where's your evidence that a vegan diet is not healthy? please don't bring up the skinny, pale kid from portland ~ that listened to morrissey and consumed veggie burgers, with soy cheese, on white bread for every meal ~ and got a cold.
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://www.beyondveg.com/index.shtml
      http://www.medicinalfoodnews.com/vol04/issue4/vitaminb.htm
    • droid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1and i must add, any diet/*lifestyle* (omnivore, pescavore, vegetarian, vegan, raw foodist) can be unhealthy if you're not watching what you consume. (obvious statement) because believe me, there's a fair share of vegan junk food out there, just as there is omni.
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I eat mostly meat and animal fats.
    • droid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"http://www.beyondveg.com/index.shtml"

      this website looks like it was designed at the beginning of the internets, and i'm confused as to what propaganda you wish for me to focus on.

      "http://www.medicinalfoodnews.com/vol04/issue4/vitaminb.htm"

      i take a b12 spray or get it from fortified soy milk or nutritional yeast every morning. takes like two seconds. sucks that the soil is too damaged from pesticides for us to get ample b12 from plants. also, i've read animals usually don't carry as much b12 in their systems (since the animals get it from said plants/you eat animals and get it from them) and omnivores are now low or deficient in b12 as well. and i've also read that b12 deficiencies in humans are mainly caused by something going wrong in the intestines or colon that hinders the absorption.
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Oh, so if it's anti vegan it's propaganda?
      You're just one of those brainwashed vegans that thinks the PCRM and PETA is doing good work, aren't you?

      And unless B12 is from an animal source, it's an INACTIVE analog that DOESN'T work.
    • droid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0that site was trash in my face. i could post a site of many people proclaiming their sins of meat/dairy, and how well they feel now, if i so desired.

      actually, i think peta should be a douche facility. i'm not in it for the militant or hippy thing, but this is all beside the point.

      i've told you, i take a b12 supplement daily (2 seconds), and probably have as much if not more b12 in my body as your average omnivore.

      you've proclaimed that living vegan will make you sick and that the "diet" was unhealthy (and i'm assuming you were referring to a balanced and enriched diet.) the only think you've produced was an unraveled b12 issue and a bunch of omni's who ate raw foods and got stoned off of it. if you eat poorly, you suffer ~ omni or herb. simple. take brendan brazier, for example ~ is he unhealthy?
    • devr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I've been a vegetarian my whole life, and rarely even get a cold.
    • knavillus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Quinadal:

      Stop trolling. Fine that your carnivorous diet suits you, but you have failed to present evidence that a Veg diet is unhealthy. I have been Veg for 6 years. I have not been ill with a cold, or any other common illness in over 4 years. Before going veg I would lose 2-3 weeks a year to respiritory illness.

      In addition, I have lowered my cholesterol from 190 to 117 in the time that I have been veg.

      How do I feel? I regularly commute to work on my bike, run 25K per week, swim 3 miles per week. I feel great.

      Now, take note: I have not argued against your dietary decisions, but rather have presented my personal experiences. Eat what you like, but please-

      SHUT THE F*@# UP
  • antidukkha, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Read these books. You owe it to yourself.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0915811812/sr=8-1/qid=1153933984/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-0401213-5312913?ie=UTF8

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1932100660/sr=1-1/qid=1153934051/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-0401213-5312913?ie=UTF8&s=books
  • vostek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Take heed of this article! It speaks the truth! I became vegetarian at the age of 15, and quickly became accustomed to eating those fake meat products, every day. It messed me up really bad, and it took me years to realize it was that processed soy crap that was poisoning me! Don't buy into the hype! This 'food' is NOT good for you and there ARE alternatives!
    • droid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"quickly became accustomed to eating those fake meat products, every day"

      there you go. those omni substitudes are loaded with soidum and other crap. i call it junk food - everything in moderation.

      i've had lacto-ovo vegetarian friends tell me they don't feel good before. those were usually the people who consumed pizza three times a week, drank alcohol, and hardly touched a steamed green vegetable or a whole grain. none of them took any significant amount of time to properly transition themself to a different diet.
  • vostek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1But i also have to agree that the fermented forms of soy are not so bad, I do still eat Tempeh, which is fermented tofu.
  • unclefrank, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Does this mean non GMO soy based protein shake mixes are bad for you as well?
    • healthynerd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0yes. as long as the soy product is NOT FERMENTED (soy sauce is fermented soy for example), it's inherently not good for you.
    • jjjpoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Edamame or soy bean still in the pod (commonly eaten as an appetizer or a side dish in most japanese meals) is unfermented, undried and unprocessed. The only thing done is that it is steamed and lightly salted.

      I believe the issue is the volume of consumption. That said though, the line that caught my attention in the article was 'Fitzpatrick says, "My next thought was: what about children who are fed soya milk?" He calculated that babies fed exclusively on soya formula could receive the oestrogenic equivalent, based on body weight, of five birth control pills a day.'

      Not that I think a baby should be fed soy milk, but it does give food for thought as to what you would put yourself through if you drank soy milk replacements exclusively.

      Nothing beats a balanced diet with a variety of food types though. I'll eat healthy at times, but at others I still love my fried foods and potato chips. (now just wait for the article that says that having too much variety in your diet causes irritable bowel syndrome or some such)
  • spinalcracker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Soy is evil... especially if you workout at all... read this:

    http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_143soy

    • Dralex75, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It is funny that Soy formula for infants (specifically male ones) is banned in most countries. No, the US is not one of them.

      There was a study (feel free to search) showing that a male infant fed nothing but soy formula was getting the equivalent of a fully grown male taking 5 birth control pills a day.

      I don't even want to know what that does to a baby boy..

  • hordak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Soy products helped me lower my cholesterol from 207 to 160.

    "There was some evidence that soya-based products had a beneficial effect on the good HDL cholesterol but they were not sure that was down to the isoflavones."
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Increasing animal protein and fat intake and lowering my intake of plant foods lowered mine from 202 to 157 (56 HDL) and lowered my triglycerides from 240 to 46. I ate NO soy, but I DID eat lots of butter, homemade lard, fatty meats and heavy cream.
      I also lost 60 lbs.
  • devr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2http://www.talksoy.com/pdfs/SoyandThyroid.pdf
  • Waterrat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1 :" It also appeared damaging to the thyroid."

    Note the word" appeared"...Appeared? Does it or does it not damage the thyroid..Telling me it appears to is not going to cut it.
    This write up looks like fear-mongering to me.
    I eat soy and I feel fin
    • Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Soy intake DOES damage thyroid tissue and casuses hypothyroidism.
  • ckaminski, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1When it comes to soy, meat, dairy and eggs; you can find ‘studies’ that seemingly prove just about anything you care to think. There’s a whole ton of money out there spent to specifically prove each side because there is a ton of money in the consumption of these products.

    Consumption of soy milk, tofu, soy sauce or other lightly processes or fermented soy is just fine as part of your protein source. Completely unprocessed soy is just fine too. The human body, with few exceptions like Inuit, thrives on a varied diet so only eating soy as your protein sources is probably not a good thing to do.

    Soy Protein Isolate should be completely avoided. This is the over processed soy found in most soy burgers, soy sausages, animal meat filler, energy bars, soy protein powders, etc. This stuff is sometimes called Concentrated Soy Protein.
  • nullity, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I'm a life-long vegetarian who has recently gotten into weight training, and I've gained 25 pounds of muscle using soy as my main source of protein.

    I'll take my veggie burgers and the risk of increased estrogen levels over the health problems associated with meat any day.

    Quinadal, did you have a bad encounter with tofu as a child or what? "Animal fat/protein based diets are the healthiest. Vegetarian/ vegan diets will make you sick." I sure don't *feel* sick. And how do you explain all the studies that show a higher rate of heart disease and colon cancer among meat eaters than vegetarians?
    • droid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0i like what you've said.

      i believe he's the ted nugent of the comments.

      and it's funny- how one article such as this comes along, not surprisingly written by someone involved with animal agriculture, once in a very long while, and i can pick about three negative meat/dairy/american diet/etc. articles (written by an omnivore, of course) per day to snicker at.

      quinadal is obviously right ~ as vegetarians/vegans ~ we're sick, and we're in one hell of a denial.
    • politech, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"he's the ted nugent of comments"

      Would that make droid Digg's version of Pee Wee Herman doing the "Soy Dance"?

      /snark
    • droid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0if you'd like.
  • politech, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Flagged as inaccurate.
  • cwm9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My wife is a soybean breeder and has known about this "scientist" for years.

    She just laughs at what he has to say.

    It's our opinion that this guy is just a quack and this is nothing but crank science, but the only way to see that is to investigate each claim's reference individually, which can take a long time. Want a start? Look up Lipoxygenase. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipoxygenase). It's the enzyme that causes the "bad smell" of soybeans. Why? It causes the dioxygenation of polyunsaturated fats. How do scientists eliminate the problem? Not by bleaching them or filtering the oil... They just cook the beans before they crush them. That destroys the enzyme, which prevents it from causing the oil to go rancid.

    As far as birds dying is concerned, there are a lot of foods humans eat that shouldn't be fed to animals -- e.g., Chocolate. If you want to know the truth, go look up some real science studies.
  • jaundice, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Look, the fact that we do something a lot, and we are used to it, doesn't mean it is wise. We used to think DDT was a good idea.

    There is evidence that adding estrogenic substances to our diet is, or can be, harmful. The balance of testosterone to estrogen, for men, is significant to our health too.

    Given enough time we'll find the real truth of the matter... but it sure as hell makes sense to take a careful look and make sure we aren't doing something as stupid as screwing with our hormone levels via out food. I mean, it's not like plastics and other chemicals are xenoestrogens is it... oops.
  • littleblackduck, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Concerns about soy are not junk science. The original article pointed towards the ubiquity of soy being part of the problem. Try avoiding soy for a week - bet it's just as hard as avoiding something made in China. Dr. Joseph Hibbeln at the National Institutes of Health has expressed concern over the amount of soy consumed by Americans - hardly a quack! His angle is that people end up with an over-abundance of omega 6 fats in their diets at the expense of the more beneficial omega-3.

    As for vegetarians that brag about health - good for you, but I eat lots of meat and never get sick either! Also, a veggie doesn't need soy for protein - any combo will do such as hummus & pita, rice & beans etc. I know 'cause I used to be veggie, but find I'm healthier now that I eat a nice steak once in a while.
    Although anti-soy articles should be met with a healthy skepticism, I don't see where the money is in anti-soy. However, the soy lobby is HUGE and dominated by the corporations mentioned in the article.
  • LeonardSH, on 11/20/2008, -0/+0digg it up!

    http://www.treatment-warts.com/
  •  

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