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Dell quietly drops extended warranty support for Ubuntu

dell.com — When the Dell/Ubuntu machines were announced, it was possible to extend the default warranty to 2-4 years as well as adding "CompleteCare" accidental breakage protection. These options have since been quietly removed from all Ubuntu systems though remain on the Vista ones. Is Dell serious about supporting Linux or was this all just a PR stunt?

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  • pcharles23, on 10/11/2007, -217/+27of corse its a pr stunt.. you can build the same ***** box they sell for under 250 bucks. if you buy dell you should be beaten bloody.
    • opiestana, on 10/11/2007, -45/+184You're right, Macs aren't overpriced all.


      /obvious sarcasm
    • IHaveIssues, on 10/11/2007, -10/+33swarq,
      but blocking you makes you flaccid forever.
    • simpleid, on 10/11/2007, -54/+6The snorg t-shirt girls, and i'm being extremely serious here, look like donkeys. (the one's bearing their pearly whites)

      look closely.
    • Monolith3, on 10/11/2007, -46/+31Youre an idiot if you thought Dell supporting Ubuntu was anything other than a PR move.
    • fkr3, on 10/11/2007, -24/+68I think it was a failed attempt to please a community that never had any intention of even buying the machines, let alone paying for extended warranties on them. Why would they want to commit themselves to supporting these machines for years if they're not even making enough sales to release PR crap hyping up the community about how it was a great idea/success/etc?
    • Iamnotwhoiam, on 10/11/2007, -32/+10Some people sure hate to hear the truth
    • linuxwarz, on 10/11/2007, -5/+23@Bowl
      Digg you down? You are blocked until you can learn how to submit comments that contribute to stories.
    • DuhStupid, on 10/11/2007, -52/+18
      Why would the almight "UBUNTU" need support? Remember it's the best, most flawless OS ever to touch earth.
    • fkr3, on 10/11/2007, -9/+22@ duh - it's hardware support, but by proxy that includes some level of operating system support to help diagnose whether there's a hardware fault and what particularly is broken.
    • staplez, on 10/11/2007, -14/+52How is this a PR stunt? most people who would buy a system with Linux pre-installed are administrators or atleast very wise to how to use a computer. We aren't the kind who need support. Thus we won't buy support. I think this is smart on Dell's part to cut down on fat.
    • DuhStupid, on 10/11/2007, -66/+14@fkr3 (#7010119)

      But its "UBUNTU" The god of all OS's. Shoudln't it automatically diagnose and fix any hardware issue?

      ITS UBUNTU!!!
    • linuxwarz, on 10/11/2007, -3/+34@staplez
      I agree with some of that, but there are still new users who may want to try Ubuntu but might not have the technical know-how to repair a computer.
    • Samus, on 10/11/2007, -63/+19wow, people are getting dugg down for stating the obvious, what a surprise, i've never seen that happen on digg before!!!! /sarcasm

      yes, it was a PR stunt, you naive, pathetic ubuntu fanboys. btw i am a linux user, but i find the stupidity of ubuntu users very similar to the Apple/Sony/Nintendo fanboys, i.e. they don't really think for themselves, they just follow the herd.

      Actually that's my new phrase when i see an ubuntu story: UBUNTU HERD!
    • TehDoctor, on 10/11/2007, -23/+10@duhstupid

      Your name is so fitting, I really can't think of any insults to dole out to you, but I'll try and make some up now anyway. Firstly, it's obvious you don't know a damn thing about Ubuntu, much less any other computer, which, for a CS major, is really annoying when you write about computers. Secondly, I'm guessing you're 13 based on your tone and writing skills (read: lack of writing skills).

      Anyone want to start a pool? I've got ten bucks says he's 13.
    • DuhStupid, on 10/11/2007, -57/+12@TehDoctor (#7010381)
      CS Major @ ITT means ***** to me in my book.


      I'm actually 27 and a professional.

      If you can't see the sarcasm in my post then let me explain it.

      You guys say "Ubuntu" is the best of the best of the best and has no flaws. But yet crying about support?

      Sum it up for you jack ass cs major?

      lol@ major call me when your out of college.

      Berkley grad here bitch.
    • roosterjm2k2, on 10/11/2007, -10/+60Samus...

      The "stupidity" of ubuntu users? Does generalizing a whole group of people and propping yourself up as better than them really make you feel that much better about yourself or something?

      Say what you want about ubuntu, but it's done in a matter of 2 years what no other linux distro has been able to do over the past 15. It's taken linux out of the closet and into the limelight. Its brought not only a larger user-base, but a larger developer crowd as well. Instead of being the typical "ATI is TeH EVAL!!" linux nerd, the ubuntu groups, as well as the core of its users, have worked hard at educating companies and improving support for linux overall. Instead of treating users like ***** an breaking out "RTFM" every time someone asks a question, its built a strong, helpful community. Look at all the wikis for ubuntu alone. Sure, some others are coming around now, mainly SUSE and Fedora, but it was the ubuntu crowd that started the trend and proved that a strong community of USERS really does work, and that you dont have to be a server admin to make a nice desktop OS work for you.

      Maybe 5 years ago ... being smart enough to use linux the hard way made you cool ... now it makes you pompous and arrogant. Luckily though, with so many new people coming on board, the loudmouth hardcore geeknerds are going the way of the dinosaur...

      *before you make moronic judgments: I've been a long-time linux user and supporter. I started on slackware back on a PII. I'm not the most hardcore of linux nerds, i simple setup the machine to work as I like, and thats it. I -could do things the hard way if i wanted, i just chose to take the option that works ... ubuntu.
    • pandaro, on 10/11/2007, -4/+30@duhstupid -

      You have me completely convinced...

      'Berkley'

      hah.
    • poohbah, on 10/11/2007, -13/+2deleted
    • PleaseJustDie, on 10/11/2007, -3/+34@samus

      Just to see what all the hype is about, over the weekend I backed up my SuSE Linux data and put Ubuntu Linux on the computer, this being my first experience with a Debian based Linux distro, I have to say I was pleasantly surprised. The installation was rather ingenious, the live CD with a quick and easy install function, though the advanced partitioning options leave a bit to be desired. Wasn't quite as intuitive as SuSE's manual partitioning configuration and on my main drive I set the mount point to / but when I hit ok, it didn't save that so had to do it again. Only other problem I had during the install was that I had to manually put a couple of options in xorg.conf file so compiz didn't process windows without displaying the side bars and the caption bar and when you disable compiz through Feisty Fawn's graphical enabler/disabler it resets the cube plugin options to only have 1 side on the cube so the next time you start it cube is broken until you figure out how to change it manually.

      But this is also my first experience using apt-get and I have to say I'm rather impressed, it blows away RPMs and overall I'm rather pleased. I definitely like it more than SuSE, all the functionality of any version of Linux and much much more of it just worked right than any other distro I've installed. Also the repository for easy to follow instructions on anything Ubuntu based really surprised me, with so many Ubuntu oriented wiki's on the web, a google search with "Ubuntu (program)" got an ubuntu wiki with very easy to follow instructions. I could get similar results with "Linux (program)" but most of the results were harder to follow forums and more generic for all Linux Distros when the Ubuntu specific ones tended to be easier to follow and able to use programs that only ship with Ubuntu to eliminate the need for digging through endless .conf files.

      So, first impressions is that I'm impressed, it works great is easy to configure and I'm pretty pleased with the results. I'm not a fanatic about it, if another distro comes out and is better I'll switch to it, but at least now I can understand why so many people are fanatical about it. It really is the best distro I've used and I've used quite a few.
    • Samus, on 10/11/2007, -14/+3rooster, you read me wrong. my comment was aimed specifically at the ubuntu users on digg, they do not think for themselves, that much is obvious when you read their posts. I actually like the work ubuntu is doing, and believe it or not, i contribute on the forums when i can. ubuntu is not a bad distro by any means, i think the more popular anything gets, the more idiots naturally find out about it and that is happening to ubuntu now. nothing surprising about it, but doesn't mean i like it.
    • plnegative1, on 10/11/2007, -1/+21TechDoctor and stupid: no one cares about where you went to college and what your major is.
    • PleaseJustDie, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11@duhstupid

      From my recent experience with Ubuntu I can guarantee its not glitch free. The average user wouldn't have a clue how to get the NVIDIA drivers installed, but there's easy to follow wiki with that information, though the wiki is slightly outdated and some of the information on it needs to be updated or modified for your individual version of the kernel etc (the wiki said I needed GCC 3.4 and had me download that version through apt-get) but in reality I had to use the 4.1 that came with the distro.

      Also there was a problem with network sharing drives when I first installed ubuntu, it told me I had to install samba and nfs services and gave me a button to install now, that didn't work until I ran an update and installed about 50 updates.

      And then there was the problems with the compiz I mentioned in the previous post. And I've been using Linux for about 6 years now, mostly red hat and SuSE distros and Ubuntu still had fewer problems than either of those getting the same services runnning.
    • saferwaters, on 10/11/2007, -3/+23@duhstupid

      Is this the "Berkley" you graduated from: "Earn your college degree online at the University of Berkley."? It's a little hard convincing people you graduated from UC Berkeley when you can't even spell it, and don't know the difference between "your" and "you're".
    • crweaks23, on 10/11/2007, -3/+19edit: enough people already made fun of 'duhstupid'...
    • DuhStupid, on 10/11/2007, -29/+2@crweaks23 (#7010813)


      Type-O

      Can't a ***** get a break?
    • Samus, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9@crweaks23

      or not, as the case may be.....
    • VinceNoir, on 10/11/2007, -14/+6@SAMUS

      Why you... What gives you the right to... You're being arrogant... What a ***** prick...

      Sorry, just giving you examples of what is sure to follow. Truth be told, I agree with you 100%. But I'll expand on it a bit more. I've been using Linux since 1997. I started with RedHat 4.5 and sampled various distros like Debian, Mandrake, Suse, Corel, Lycoris, Lindows, Linspire, Freespire, Ubuntu etc... For a long time I stuck with RedHat until they dropped the free version post RH9. I then moved to Fedora Core but wasn't as pleased so I wandered from the farm a bit. I found Linux from Scratch which I liked a lot since I'd already been customizing my RedHat installs since RH5 with locally compiled libs and apps. Then a friend turned me onto Gentoo and I currently have moved all of my systems at home and my workstation here at work to it.

      There is a need for RedHat Enterprise Linux here at work for a few apps that really require it. So I've been trying to pick a distro to standardize on in the computer room as we add more Linux boxes. I DON'T want to have to pay for licensing and support on every box since it's just not needed. The boxes also need to be supportable by my less skilled staff who are all Windows guys. Since I can't have a smörgåsbord of distros back there, my hand is being forced. It will have to be RedHat Enterprise Linux because of the vendor requirements and lack of skilled staff. To avoid the licensing and support costs, where a box is disposable, I'm using CentOS (the free version of RHEL) since it's pretty much identical to RHEL. This will limit the need for "retraining" of the less skilled staff since they should see them both as the same distro.

      With all of that said, here is what I've discovered in trying out and living with different distros. I call it Vince's Rule: "The level of competence displayed by a user of a Linux distro will be inversely related to the "ease of use" of said distro". In other words, if the distro is easy to use, the typical user will be less skilled. If it's harder to use the typical user will be more skilled. When I was in the RedHat and Fedora worlds, one of the most frustrating things to me was that I would constantly run into problems that no one online ever had a good answer or solution for. I'd either be told to RTFM (when I already had and in some cases had even written TFM), or I'd get no response at all. Sometimes, well meaning folks would reply but it was obvious they didn't understand my question because they'd provide an answer that I'd already mentioned as something I'd already tried.

      A corollary of Vince's Rule is: "The number of deeply knowledgeable users on a distro's forum will be inversely proportional to that distro's ease of use". When I moved to Gentoo, I was VERY impressed with the knowledge of the users. I have yet to run into a problem that wasn't addressed or solvable using the Gentoo forums. This is not true of the RedHat or Fedora forums. And from what I've seen of the Ubuntu forums, there is a much smaller number of very knowledgeable users when it comes to a deep down serious system problem. For me, this was proven by my recent experience in getting Xen virtualization to work on CentOS the way I wanted it to.

      I've been using Xen for a little over two years. First on Fedora Core 3 (where it was a huge pain to install from source) and then on Gentoo, where it worked like a charm when I installed it from source. (NOTE: I do everything from source when I want latest and greatest no matter what distro I use) So I now have a real work related need for Xen. I decided that since I need less skilled staff to support the machine, I would just stick with what CentOS has bundled in, including their Xen implementation in CentOS 5.

      It took me a VERY long time to get things working because the "RedHat way" is quite limiting. One of the things I love about Xen is using virtualized storage with LVM logical volumes as the backing store. But I couldn't for the life of me get a manually created Xen "guest" to boot beyond the kernel. I kept getting a kernel panic about not being able to find a root device for the VM. I knew I'd created it, and I knew it was accessible and had the right perms. So I nearly gave up and stuck Gentoo back there. Then, I did some net searches and perused some forum and mailing list posts. Not one solution for the error I was experiencing. Until May 17th. Only one other person ran into the same problem and posted the solution. The solution itself points to one of the problems of preconfigured distros like RedHat and Ubuntu... What I needed to do was build a custom initrd for the VM that contained a module called 'xenblk' which gives the Xen "guest" kernel support for block devices. That worked.

      In that case I lucked out that there was someone more knowledgeable about CentOS than I who was having the same exact problem. I'm willing to be that very few CentOS users are manually creating their VMs by copying directories and are instead wasting their time doing a full installation. That's because they don't know any better. (This is not meant as an insult to the CentOS community, just pointing out a difference between folks who prefer prepackaged stuff over building from source). When you use a distro that uses a package manager, you get the benefits of being able to quickly manage and distribute software. But at the cost of being held hostage to how the packagers think things should work instead of the way YOU think things should work. So I'm always going to have a problem with prepackaged vs. customized. And that is why there is a disparity between "easy to use" distros and things like Gentoo or Linux from Scratch. The people who use prepackaged don't mind being held hostage or aren't aware that they can do more if they dig deeper.
    • msgyrd, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6DIstro elitists piss me off. I've ran gentoo before (measured in years). It was a great learning experience. However, you spend a lot of your time spinning your wheels getting nothing accomplished, and until you've ran gentoo for a long time, getting your machine into a stable state is all but impossible.

      I've built kernels by hand. I can compile from source. I've actually written software....all in Ubuntu. Does it install with all the l33t software by default? No, but it's still available. STFU about Ubuntu users. It attracts new users, which is a good thing, even if the forums have a few annoyances because of it. It doesn't detract from distribution.
    • NikoKun, on 10/11/2007, -2/+13I think the Ubuntu linux offer was a bit too successful... lol and must have peaked Microsofts interest... So now Microsoft pays off Dell, to slowly fade out the Ubuntu machines, with things like no warrentys and such... Eventually they'll just stop selling Dells with Ubuntu... sadly...

      Don't let it happen Digg! XD
    • happyhappyhappy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11If you step back for a minute, it becomes obvious why they are dropping support. It was a mistake that they offered it in the first place. What does support mean? It means that there is a phone number you can call to reach a TRAINED person on the other end who can help you. The simple answer is that Dell probably doesn't have the trained staff right now to be able to provide support.
    • VinceNoir, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3@msgard

      Someone got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. I wasn't being elitist. I was simply stating my experience. I think Ubuntu is a great distro for what it is. But it's not getting people to use Linux any more than Mac OS X is turning Mac users into Unix users. To put it another way... it's one thing to buy a sports car and drive it to work. It's another to actually use it for racing as it was intended.
    • Skeuomorph, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1http://www.answers.com/piqued&r=67

      "... must have piqued Microsoft's interest ..."

    • crazybrit, on 10/11/2007, -5/+1What made so many people digg opiestana up? Was it the unnecessary, off topic Apple jab? The unnecessary sarcasm tag? I just don't understand.
    • furiouslettuce, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5@VinceNoir

      I'd agree with you that distro's like Gentoo and LFS are better for the user who wants to get non-standard stuff working, or is incredibly anal about how their system works. However, for the average user, these are non-issues - when was the last time a normal user needed Xen virtualisation? And most normal users don't even think about RHE because it just isn't what they need - normal users don't run Windows Server Editions as a desktop, and the same is true for Linux.

      You're right that distro's that give you a generally lower-level access to the inner workings of Linux (something of a disparity I know, but you know what I mean - compiling everything from source in Gentoo for example) also have more knowledgeable users. However, they will be more knowledgeable in regions which generally don't affect most users - the average Ubuntu convert wants to know how to install new codecs / install video drivers, not know how to set which compiler flags to use.

      I tried Gentoo once, about a year and a bit ago. After the manual install process (which took best part of a day, what with all the chrooting and compiling), I was set for a day or two. However, on the first Xorg update, I decided to merge the config files, which immediately broke X on restart. I was quite new to Linux back then, and I'm sure that I would have both been able to fix it eventually and become more knowledgeable in the process. Instead, I decided that I shouldn't need to know how to merge all the different config file formats so that they wouldn't crash, and reinstalled Ubuntu. Sure, compiling from source is great if you want a really optimised system, but I just don't think that it's for normal users, it simply makes the install process unnecessarily difficult - I don't appreciate having to relinquish control of my machine whilst the newest update to OpenOffice compiles.

      As for your ending comment, "The people who use prepackaged don't mind being held hostage or aren't aware that they can do more if they dig deeper." - that's just not true. I don't feel "held hostage", and I am fully aware of the extended abilities of lower-level distro's. I don't feel held hostage because there's nothing that I would ever want to do in reality that Ubuntu wouldn't let me do, and it does all the things that I do want it to do more quickly and more easily. I'd be more annoyed at my computer being taken hostage every couple of days as the recompiling starts - even if it's only for a few minutes, it's still time I could be spending doing something else.
    • Rhino2, on 10/11/2007, -13/+8Listen, Linux fan boys...

      We need to have a talk. If you want grade A service and support; it's very easy. All you have to do is to [collectively] put your money where your mouth this. This whining and bitching to big corporations to give you free stuff isn't really attractive.

      And no, a few hundred people spending a few hundred dollars doesn't count. Once you start getting a few hundred thousand to a million paying players, then we can talk.

      Love,
      the real world.
    • VinceNoir, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1@furiouslettuce

      Thanks for a reasonable reply. Something that's severely lacking on Digg. I can understand that some people might want a distro that just lets them do the basics. That's why I posted my second post to clarify that I have no problem with Ubuntu other than the fact that many times when a problem is deep, it will be the blind leading the blind until a developer in the Ubuntu project fixes the problem. That's what I mean by "held hostage". Unless someone really knows the system well internally, you're problem won't get solved. That's the reason I picked the Xen example. Anyone using CentOS or RHEL who isn't using virtualization these days is a fool, so it stands to reason that this is something that SHOULD be at the top of their priorities. But the solution to the problem I ran into makes it seem like the problem is a rarity. I would hazard a guess that it's not. Is there anyone in server land who doesn't virtualize these days? But yes, this is not something Joe Average at home would use (although they should because it has a lot of utility). I was merely pointing out that I lucked out when that one person posted on the forum just about three days before I was going to quit and go elsewhere. The problem is prepackaged OSes where everything is just a mysterious black box procedure. That's the problem with Ubuntu. The other edge of the sword so to speak. Ubuntu is great when it works. When it doesn't, it's no better than Windows because you'll run into the same low level of knowledge amongst the users.
    • ciram, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3Well the ***** up top is half right. It was pretty obviously a PR stunt. The reason they degraded the support options is because they fear it could become more than that.
      Here comes a gigantic transnational corporation called Dell and tells everyone, "yeah, we're gonna support linux." I can't be bothered to write full sentances so heres the key issues that I see;

      - This company has been Windows-only for ages. They probably have ties with Microsoft that force them to keep windows as their main OS. Similar to to Intel's anti-amd contracts, microsoft will probably have anti-linux contracts with them.

      - They know the kind of people that use Linux. Most of them will have straight-forward questions for customer support. Many won't even ever use it. Very few will therefore buy any extensions to service plans.

      - They were expecting their Linux userbase to consist of us - computer-savvy people who can and will fix their own Software problems... because we can. This means almost zero additional cost for training service employees. Win-win for them. An additional userbase of a couple of thousand at almost no extra cost.

      - By degrading Linux-box serice and support they have achieved one thing; Less non-savvy people are going to switch to Linux. Many will have thought "okay, cool, linux, I'll just get the uber-support and I can be sure that they'll help me with any problems I should experience.." WRONG. No more support. Go home non-savvy user, we don't actually want to help people switch to Linux, we just want the linux people to love us and buy our hardware. Supporting you n00bs is too expensive in service and support, sorry, go home.

      - The executive in charge who "okayed" this obviously doesn't know a lot about Linux, or simply didn't think very far ahead; Ubuntu is AWESOME! Joe Moron will love ubuntu. If marketed correctly, Linux could put Microsoft out of business in a couple of years. Putting it on Dell boxes is the first step in this direction. Obviously there are people who don't want this to happen. Apparently it took these people some time to figure out what this might cause.

      Dear executives,
      You obviously have no "feel" for the industry. I should have your job.

      - Linux users are being "tolerated" by the big industry, but they sure as hell don't want their numbers increasing. Dell has gotten a lot of coverage for something so seemingly insignificant. More and more people are learning about Linux as a real alternative to windows.

      - Obviously the people at dell who changed this, or were forced to change this, didn't really think we'd be clever/bothered enough to do anything about it. Well, guess what, dell, say hi to sony on my boycott list.
    • killiansman, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1you guys keep complaining about service, but would you really leave a tip for the right service? now, let me tell you... i've seen more than a hundred computers in one room, they all look the same... it's only once you get down to the wire that everything changes, literally.
    • Salgat, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3@fkr3

      At least give this more than 1 month before you start saying if this was a failure or not.
    • RonPaulPres2008, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I don't think anyone should be putting Dell down about this. Could you imagine the level of training they would have to give their tech support people in India just to help people with Linux?
    • init100, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3@fkr3

      "I think it was a failed attempt to please a community that never had any intention of even buying the machines"

      If this really was a "failed attempt", they surely didn't give it much time before considering it to be failed. How long since they became available, a week?

      But Dell cannot be that stupid, so I think you are wrong.
    • fkr3, on 10/11/2007, -5/+2It's coming on two weeks, and Dell haven't mentioned it at all on their blog or on ideastorm since then. If there were anything worth talking about they would have been posting every day to further establish and grow their relationship with the open source community.

      They're a little stupid - they saw a huge and sudden popularity in the idea for pre-installing Linux, and instead of looking at where and why these people were coming to vote they decided to believe it was genuine. It's not really genuine when you've got people being urged to vote-and-run on digg, slashdot, reddit etcetera.

      The sad thing is, loads of actually good ideas have been missed on IdeaStorm because of these retards and their ***** Microsoft agenda.
    • peevegrider, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2@duhstupid

      I agree, CS major isn't really worth much in alot of the IT industry. I make more than CS grads doing Systems Administration, and I've only paid about $750 in certifications, and haven't even been in for 4yrs yet.
    • MikeWanDo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3I love how people cite Ubuntu fans as claiming it to be the end-all be-all OS, when no actual Ubuntu fan is.
    • strangewill, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I'm pretty sure that it's probably because it's a pain to provide tech support for Linux. I mean Dell has a hard enough time providing support for Windows. Running your idiot customer through the hoops of troubleshooting a major screwup in Ubuntu must be a nightmare.

      TBH: I run SuSE, maybe Ubuntu has better interfaces for fixing things, but I usually end up in the console a lot. Your typical computer user would die in a console environment.
    • strangewill, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2BTW:
      I usually only pull the "CS Major" part to get Mac fans to shut the hell up about how they know more than me, aka: "I've had years of schooling, you bought an Apple computer, there is a huge difference in knowledge here"

      Technically CS major in training, but I'm on the downhill side of my courses.
    • cantormath, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1The only thing that seems to have changed is that this option is no longer there.....different the extended warrenty:
      PROTECT AGAINST ACCIDENTS Add CompleteCare Accidental Damage Service to 2Yr Lim Warranty
  • schestowitz, on 10/11/2007, -16/+28There's no conspiracy, but re: "Dell serious about supporting Linux or was this all just a PR stunt?"

    Well, they signed a deal with Microvell around the same time, so there's more going on behind the scenes. I firmly believe that they try to extend "innovation tax" from vendors to OEMs, starting with Dell. Worry not, however, because GPLv3 resolves this 'problem'.
  • YokoZar, on 10/11/2007, -3/+127Canonical will only support Ubuntu Feisty for 18 months on all platforms, including Dells. Extending the warranty beyond that period, even for extra cash, is simply not an option for Dell.

    Now, when the next Long Term Support (LTS) release of Ubuntu comes out, expect the extended warranty to become available again.
    • theantix, on 10/11/2007, -2/+43@YokoZar: The software support is already separated from the warranty, if you go through the purchase they clearly delineate that Dell is providing Hardware support but Canonical the software support. They are pulling Dell hardware support from this offering, hence my complaint that they are not truly interested in providing a legitimate Ubuntu platform offering.
    • thcobbs, on 10/11/2007, -2/+19Could it be that they haven't done their long term testing on the effects Ubuntu has on their laptops and they are just hedging their bets untill they get more field failure data?

      Different OS's tax the hardware in different ways... and these are their pilot machines. Once they get more data and can do their MTBF calculations more accurately, expect the warranties to come back.... I'd wager withing the next 5 years.
    • rderveloy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+23Has anyone just tried calling dell and ordering an Ubuntu computer over the phone? This may simply be glitch on their website.
    • st0nes, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought Dell were offering hardware support only, not OS support? If so, all this carry-on about about them supporting Ubuntu is irrelevent.
  • cynicist, on 10/11/2007, -4/+38First we get windows manuals with the computers, and now this? What the ***** are these guys doing?
    • estvir, on 10/11/2007, -8/+65Wait, they're shipping Windows manuals with PCs with Ubuntu pre-installed ? Hahah, that made my day.
    • mushroom, on 10/11/2007, -18/+3They know it will be cheaper shipping cost when people bitch so much that they will start sending windows disks to save their market share
    • Phocion55, on 10/11/2007, -24/+8@estvir:

      I feel bad for you if that's how you get your kicks in life.

      I for one won't even notice the manuals when my system comes in about 2 days :)
    • thcobbs, on 10/11/2007, -5/+12Well, when you can find a light, cheap, and bound Ubuntu manual... LET ME KNOW!
    • kethraal, on 10/11/2007, -29/+9"Well, when you can find a light, cheap, and bound Ubuntu manual... LET ME KNOW!"

      Sure:

      Chapter 1 - Setup:

      1) Click the Terminal icon (accessible through the "Programs" menu.)

      2) Type the following:
      sudo apt-get install synaptic

      3) Enter your root password.

      Chapter 2 - Installing programs:

      1) Launch Synaptic (accessible in the "Programs" menu).

      2) Select the software you want.

      3) Click "install."

      4) Have a pint.

      :-D
    • aarongough, on 10/11/2007, -3/+46dude. Ubuntu comes with synaptic pre-installed:

      step one: System-> Administration-> Synaptic
      step two: choose the software you want
      step three: have a pint

      :-D
    • noahhoward, on 10/11/2007, -2/+34"Well, when you can find a light, cheap, and bound Ubuntu manual... LET ME KNOW!"

      And in the mean time you'll use the Windows manual to troubleshoot Ubuntu?
    • JorgeGT, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3Hey, in the old times OEM Win98 manuals had the license key of the system on them... but I guess they' aren't stupid enought... yet :P
    • joeyjojo402, on 10/11/2007, -12/+7@aarongough:

      You totally ***** up the steps:

      Step 1: cut a hole in the box
      Step 2: put your junk in that box
      Step 3: make her open the box

      And that's the way you do it!
    • freedomknight, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8Ever heard of "Ubuntu Bible"?
    • phidelt930, on 10/11/2007, -7/+2@joeyjojo

      It's just a dick in a box
    • kethraal, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3"step three: have a pint"

      You got the important part. :D
    • skyshock21, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@ thcobbs

      http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/105-9781245-9954819?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ubuntu+linux&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go

      And oh yeah System > Help and Support.

      ***** moron.
  • atmawpn, on 10/11/2007, -4/+2I wonder if Dell is grasping at straws between their decision to market their pc's to Wal-Mart and their Ubuntu offerings. I'm not sure what's going on behind the scenes, but I can't imagine they're hurting for cash. Something's up.
    • chris9902, on 10/11/2007, -14/+5Dells posted first-quarter profits of $947m up from $762m last year. Also it's sales rose by about 1% to $14.6bn over the past three months. (bbc)

      They are just being a bunch of greedy bastards. More reasons not to buy their *****.
    • thcobbs, on 10/11/2007, -2/+17Oh, you mean a company wanting to make money is a reason not to buy their product?? HA!

      As I said below, this was likely just a business decision because they don't want to deal with long-term support of an UNSUPPORTED OS. If you want long term support of your software, call up Ubuntu... they do sell it.
    • chris9902, on 10/11/2007, -11/+5they already make money. They just want more, more, more!!!

      Also if they sell it they should damn well support it. What is this Linux deal? a marketing gimmick for them? seems like it.
    • thcobbs, on 10/11/2007, -2/+15chris...

      You obviously aren't in the business of selling electronics from the standpoint of Dell (high-volume OEM). Different OSes stress hardware in different ways. Dell does a battery of tests on it's machines that last years on initial product launches. Honestly, they aren't sure how many of these things are gonna break. And they need that data before they can offer extended warranties. Otherwise, they could sink the company in warranty repair costs because they hadn't done their due diligence.
    • chris9902, on 10/11/2007, -17/+2That is a crok of *****.

      "hey, buy my laptop".
      "ok, cool."
      "it's yours now sucka!!!"
    • atmawpn, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5no, thcobbs is spot on.

      besides, isn't what you just illustrated the intent of sales? buy it and its yours?

      what you seem to be implying is that it's a rental...which dell takes care of through rent-a-center ;)
    • SweetMercury, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2@chris9902
      "That is a crok of *****.

      "hey, buy my laptop".
      "ok, cool."
      "it's yours now sucka!!!" "

      So, if I buy a product, it's mine? Is that how that works now? Heavens no!

      Unless you're leasing the computer, it's yours. Your stuff is your responsibility. Why is that so difficult a concept? The free service, and the extra premium service, are incentives to buy a product over some other brand—and unless a contract is signed for them, For most people, that a company will stand buy their products is reason enough to buy from them.

      Does it say that "If you buy an Ubuntu system, you're on your own, sucker?" It looks like all that happened is that they aren't offering the extended "Premium" warranty. Big deal. Dell isn't under any illusions as to the type of people that are buying Ubuntu systems. According to their site, "You asked, we listened. For ADVANCED USERS AND TECH ENTHUSIASTS, we’re happy to offer a new open-source operating system, so you can dive in and truly enjoy a PC experience just the way you want it. In addition to the FreeDOS systems we already offer, we are proud to announce PCs with Ubuntu." Do you think advanced users are going to be in need of 2-4 year product warranties? No. Those are for the average user who doesn't know how to fix a computer. Ubuntu isn't ready for the mass market, just yet, simply because there is a learning curve and most casual users know Windows.
  • BadLittleGirl, on 10/11/2007, -26/+9This is clearly the work of communists. They are adulterating our software market. The blame rests solely on those who aid and support the propagation of open source software. This is not the good, pure, capitalist ideology that America was built upon. Who knows where these Linux using fiends will strike next. This virulent threat must be snuffed out before it has a chance to pollute the minds of our young. BUY WINDOWS!
    • thomasprebble, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8Yes you have been a bad little girl today.
    • Pixelante, on 10/11/2007, -9/+4Don't digg her down, spank her. That's what we do to bad girls: we have them dressed up in French maid outfits, tie them up and spank them.

    • LiterateWolf, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Someone read too much Ayn Rand lately. Might want to get a life.
    • Spr0k3t, on 10/11/2007, -5/+1> This is not the good, pure, capitalist ideology that America was built upon. Who knows where these Linux using fiends will strike next.

      This is quite sad that people actually think like this. Devout of their preferred choice of operating systems to the point they believe it as "true faith" type *****. It saddens me more as it is not just one side of the line. Zealotry is a way to publicly embrace stupidity. Ignorance of why someone uses or supports their choice and opinions. Just use what feels right for you and ***** off if you have any opinions otherwise. Don't bother replying... you've already been blocked. Now, be a good little girl and set the appropriate filters so the rest of those interested in Linux/Unix topics don't have to put up with your tripe.

    • tech42er, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Girl, you really need to use the sarcasm tag. You're at -17 diggs.
    • daverave999, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I think a few people need it spelt out to them tech42er...
  • mikefitz2, on 10/11/2007, -34/+9So Dell are now figuring out that offering a second rate operating system was a bad idea.
    • Balanced, on 10/11/2007, -3/+23Well, yeah. They still have to pay to support all those Windows machines.
    • Novagenesis, on 10/11/2007, -4/+20Precisely; that's why they offer Linux now.

      See, it's not hard to be stupid and one-sided about a complicated situation.
    • DeFex, on 10/11/2007, -3/+7Well they dis give back the XP option instead of vista only, so they have known that for a while
  • thomasprebble, on 10/11/2007, -16/+7Get Mike Dell or whoever the hell it is on the phone. This is bloody unacceptable!
  • DeFex, on 10/11/2007, -6/+20people who use ubuntu do not fall for the "extended warranty" BS, sales = almost 0 so why keep it.
    • chrisc262, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11that makes the most sense so far
      dell is in it for the money, so if the extended warranty doesnt sell enough to cover its own costs, just drop it
    • Pokelicious, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6winner!
  • onlyclave, on 10/11/2007, -1/+47Wait, you actually _want_ the extended warranty?

    What kind of sucker are you?
    • chrisc262, on 10/11/2007, -2/+16ok just a quick statistical analysis of an extended warranty:

      1 out of 10 computers "break" during the ext warranty period
      it costs an average of $1000 to "fix" the computer
      so, sell an extended warranty for $125
      then 10 comps x $125 = $1250
      fix the one for $1000
      $250 profit

      conclusion : extended warranty = money maker for manufacturer
      ps this is exactly the same way insurance works ( in a very simplified way )
    • TwistMyArm, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3When I bought my laptop from Dell (a number of years ago) I had to get the extended warranty so as to get international warranty support. I didn't want to have to send it halfway around the world to get it fixed if something went wrong.

      Things may be different now, but that's one reason you'd get it...
    • dognose, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1The only reason to get the extended warranty is if you CAN'T afford to replace the machine when and if it breaks.

      If I was buying a $100K dollar computer from dell, I'd want the warranty. a $400 linux machine, no way.
    • SweetMercury, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6@chrisc262:

      It costs $1000 to fix a computer? What 's your desktop made out of, precious jewels?
  • thcobbs, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9Duh, I think I predicted this on another thread somewhere.


    Dell is going to minimally support Ubuntu. That's it... That's where you're going to get your price differences. As a Engineering VP once told me, you can put any warranty you want on a piece of equipment, you just have up bump the price till it all equals out and you still make a profit.

    The really time (and therefore money) consuming part of supporting an alternative OS is that you have to train all your people that will be supporting it. Have a dedicated staff for a small part subset of your whole user base... and that staff usually gets very little work. Have to support bugs in an OS that has contributers from literally around the world. It's just a nightmare.... So, they decided just not to support it past the hardware warranty THEY get on their parts. Seems fair to me.

    Also, there is no way that Dell is going to spend the time and money that Ubuntu is costing them just for a PR stunt. They are serious about it and will stay so as long as they see a decent profit margin.
  • Langford, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7Pulling hardware support is weird. Do they think Ubuntu users are more likely to spill their coffee on their computer or something?
    • thcobbs, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4It's probably they don't know what the new OS is going to do (in stress) to the system. Extended warranties are all a game of numbers. They can offer them without knowing what it will cost, but that's a recipe for disaster. As a VP of engineering once told me, you can offer any warranty you want on a device.... as long as the customer pays enough for the replacements.
    • krinn, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3No, they're worried that LG will sell them more cd-rom drives with buggy firmware that happened to fry themselves much more often with Linux than Windows.

      Of course the last time that happened, all the machines were shipped with Windows so Dell didn't really know how many were running Linux. They just knew that a lot of cd drives had failed.
  • RedTroll, on 10/11/2007, -8/+5I wonder when Dell will publish some sale figures for the Ubuntu computers, I'm dying to see all the conspiracy theories explaining why nobody buys them.
    • FKnight, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3Oh, didn't you know? Steve Ballmer throws a chair into the window of anyone trying to buy an Ubuntu box from dell.com, him and Gates climb through the window, and then Bill Gates holds a gun to the guys head and forces him to to buy Windows.

      According to the DiggHerd mentality at least.
    • SweetMercury, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3The fact that Linux has a minimal market share is a conspiracy theory?

      Does anyone expect Linux to outsell Windows machines or something? In their "intro to Linux" videos Dell says pretty plainly that most users are going to stick with Windows. Since setting up a machine with Ubuntu (or any free distro) doesn't cost Dell a cent, and there are no restrictive licensing deals, there's no reason for Dell to stop offering Ubuntu right along with FreeDOS (which they've offered for years at a minimum market share).
  • nimski, on 10/11/2007, -33/+8They're having a hard time finding Linux support that aren't condescending self righteous pricks.
    • Phocion55, on 10/11/2007, -8/+31Actually, the Ubuntu community is quite friendly.

      But, by all means, please comment on things you never had experience with.
    • nimski, on 10/11/2007, -17/+5Speaking of said pricks... heh. Actually the only reason I mention it is due to an attempted Ubuntu install on a Dell laptop.

      You're a service to the Linux community Phocion55, keep up the good work.
    • avihappy, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11Try reading through the posts on the Ubuntu forums, they are not elitist at all. http://ubuntuforums.org/

      The Absolute Beginner Talk section is the most newb friendly.
    • RedTroll, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Yeah, the Ubuntu community is friendly and non-elitist. Too bad that 90% of them don't know ***** about Linux.

      I used to have a hardware-related problem with xine that was a little bit more complicated than their usual "How do I install programs in this shiet LOL ?" I wrote a post describing the problem in detail, posted all the relevant hardware information, included console output and stuff. The only "solution" they could come up with was "check if your codecs are properly installed".

      I'd rather go with the hardcore elitist pricks over at Gentoo, thank you very much.
  • abhiroop, on 10/11/2007, -2/+14I really like the title. They QUIETLY dropped support, instead of screaming it out loud!
  • stmiller, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10They still come with a one year warranty, like any new computer you buy from Bestbuy, Apple, wherever. So they are not 'dropping' hardware support. Just odd that the 'extended' options are not there anymore.
  • tlarkin, on 10/11/2007, -26/+1bad little girl- you made me laugh thanks

    Also, Macs are not over priced at all, you add a dell or any PC with all the features a mac has standard and it comes out to the same price
    • abhiroop, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8WHAT? features that come standard, is the same price???!!!! Errr Ok lets compare

      My Laptop:
      HP Pavillion dv5242ea
      1.6ghz core duo
      1024mb ram
      100gb hard drive
      256mb nvidia 7400
      windows xp home
      DVD Double Layer Super multi drive (reader/writer)
      I paid $1150 for this about 10 months back.

      If I were to look at macbook NOW with similar specs:
      for $1100 the cheapest macbook:
      2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
      1GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x512
      80GB Serial ATA @ 5400 rpm
      Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)

      The only thing better than my laptop is that it has a far better processor. But considering I bought mine a year ago, its safe to say that mac's are far more expensive. And pray tell what OTHER features you are getting by buying a mac. The only thing I can think of is iLife, which on a windows: there is picasa (or with HP you get their photo software), itunes, two programs I really need, both of which are free. After buying my laptop I haven't paid a cent, everything I have is either open source or freeware. Macs are known to be more expensive, there is NO WAY they are cheaper.
    • returnofajedi, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10@tlarkin
      Have you actually checked that or is this just out of your ass??? Any PC comparable to any Mac is cheaper by far.

      From the Apple Online Store, Newegg.com, and Dell.com:
      iMac 20" for $1500 = custom built PC with 20" monitor on Newegg for $800 = comparable Dell PC with 20" monitor for $1000.

      Check your facts before you claim to know something.
    • indie1982, on 10/11/2007, -12/+0@returnofajedi

      Where exactly did you see this $1000 Dell with the same specs as the 20 iMac? I've been all over the Dell website and the closest I've got is $1229 for an XPS 410 without Bluetooth or Wifi.

      Together with the fact that you don't get iMovie HD, iDVD, iPhoto, Garageband or Frontrow, The XPS 410 is in a horrible tower case whereas the iMac has been well designed and not made to a budget.

      I'd say the slight price premium of the iMac is more than worth it.
    • abhiroop, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7Again someone who can't look at facts, or even bother to check the site properly:

      The following is a dell xps 410 priced at $2499
      Intel® Core™2 Duo processor E6700 (2.67GHz)
      Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium
      1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs
      320GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
      2X Blu-ray Drive
      20 inch UltraSharp™ 2007WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel
      768MB nVidia GeForce 8800 GTX
      Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio

      This is the imac for $2249:
      2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
      1GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x512
      250GB Serial ATA Drive
      NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 128MB SDRAM
      SuperDrive 8X (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
      Apple Keyboard & Mighty Mouse + Mac OS X (US English)
      24-inch widescreen LCD
      AirPort Extreme
      Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR

      So for a little extra you get a better processor, better graphics card, bigger hard drive, better sound card, better drive and all you don't get is a monitor 4" smaller! Also increasing the memory on an iMac is far more expensive.
    • Altotus, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1@abhiroop

      According to the Dell website, the step up from 20" widescreen to 24" widescreen is $450. If you make that correction, the Mac is cheaper in your example.

      It's hard to compare systems this way because it's night impossible to match the hardware exactly. Generally speaking, though, they come out pretty even on price the close you get to the same hardware specs. The Mac's most serious limitation is that except for in the quad- and octo-core Mac Pro models, the video card isn't really upgradable and what you get isn't the top-of-the-line.

      Having a Dell and a Mac at home, and specifying both types of systems at work, my general opinion is that Dell has a wider arrangement of options but you basically get what you pay for in both cases. If you're honest about it, you can't make a strong case that one presents a markably better value over the other

      I've had a lot more hardware issues with Dells, but I tend to buy their workstation-grade systems and laptops, not their lower-end desktops, and none of the gaming rigs. For Macs, I have one iMac, but eveything else around here are MacBook Pro laptops. Also, we don't run Vista anywhere. There's some Win2K machines, but most run Linux these days (save for the Macs, which are running Mac OS X). Life science and computational chemistry applications, the domain that I work in, are highly skewed toward the UNIX/Linux platforms. At this point, it appears that Linux will displace Windows for all non-Office work within the next 5 years. Even the IT organization (I work in research), which has traditionally been an all MS shop, seems to be heading that way (at least for servers, they'll probably stick with XP on the desktop for the foreseeable future which seems logical).
    • xspinkickx, on 10/11/2007, -5/+1@abhiroop
      That is an incredibly simplified analysis, btw, though you are right you missed that you get a blueray optical drive, second the difference between a 7300GT and a 8800GTX is night an day. A 7300GT costs about 60$ and a 8800GTX costs 600$ (USD btw). If you take the 8800GTX out and replace it with a 7300GTX the xps system is about ~1900.

      However that being said if any apple fan boy did go and compare a mac pro and a similar dell you would see that the macpro is actually cheaper, go to dell and configure a dual dual core xenon @ 2.66GHz, 1GB of ram, a 250GB HDD, no monitor, same as the basic mac pro you'll find the dell costs $3610.00, compared to apples $2499.00. However this still is not a fair comparison as the dell comes with an ATI FireGL V7200, which is about 679.99$ USD from new egg, if you subtract that cost, and add a 7300GT you find that the dell system costs $3000.00 where as a mac pro costs $2499.00.

      No Apples are not always the more expensive option, yes the imacs cost more mostly attributed to the design, its compact, and requires a more specialized layout/components. If you guys want to make comparisons try to make fair comparisons. Similarly I grabbed the black macbook and compared it to a similar 12" dell notbook, and the apple costs $1500 where as the dell cost $1639. Both were configured the exact same way, thats not to say I cant find a cheaper Acer or IBM notebook of the same specs, however, the point is you cannot compare an iMac to an XPS.

      Sorry but apple notebooks and mac pros are well priced now that they have switched to X86. When they used ppc they could argue that PPC was superior to the x86 architecture and charge a premium for that. Now they can't. Besides the iMac series Apple machines are well priced. Now I am not saying Apple is always going to be cheaper, however, if you configure an apple and non apple notebook / desktop (excluding the iMacs) you find that Apples roughly cost the same.

    • xspinkickx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4@Altotus
      no the xps system is still cheaper, if you factor in the cost of the 8800GTX to the 7300GT. Like I have said a million times, the iMacs, are costly, and dumb, they need to make a mac pro like desktop, separate the monitor and hardware components, and give people a upgradable cheaper mac, which should have core2duos or quads, (no xenons) that require more expensive ecc ram. What you will get is a cheaper Mac Pro (maybe just you can call it just 'Mac'), which will be more affordable.
    • abhiroop, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1but what about the laptop comparison I made above? comparing my current laptop (which I bought a year ago) with a similar specs, macbook of today. Price is the same, and the only difference is a better hard drive and optical drive in mine, and a better processor in the newer macbook. The prices being the same, between a laptop 10 months old and a brand new one is the most interesting point!
    • abhiroop, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Also if I recall correctly at about the time I bought my laptop (for $1100), my girlfriend bought a macbook (13") for $1100, it had 60gb HD, 1.8ghz core duo, combo drive, and some pretty bad graphics card. I can remember the specs so well, but I remember comparing it with a friend of mine a while back, we were having a similar arguement, and we both came to the conclusion that the mac was by far priced higher. In my assessment you'd buy a mac if you'd want ease of use. There's no question about it, everything just works and its unlikely you'll have major problems. My dad has a macbook pro and he switched over from windows, it took him a little getting used to, but now he has no problems with it, and it doesn't require the regular maintainence our windows desktop required.

      Personally I think macs are very much overpriced, but I think the reason behind this is the same reason the ipod is also quite expensive, it lacks a lot of things other players have, it is quite a bit more expensive than other players, yet people buy it. No doubt apple makes quality products, but I think it is hard to argue that they are cheaper, or the same price.
    • Me1000, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1You get what you pay for!
    • xspinkickx, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1read my post again and notice that I said around the same price, sometimes they are cheaper sometimes they are more expensive, not to mention, when comparing laptops its hard because of whats included and what is not right......but I said they are not overpriced, they are in about the same price range as anyother laptop, sometimes there are sales, I mean when apple updates the macbook or macbook pros, the macbooks and macbook pros go on sale, right? They are not overpriced, they are in the same price bracket as any other laptop with similar specs.
    • abhiroop, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I agree the two laptops I compared are the same price, however, one of them is far inferior
    • OrangeTide, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I know my four Macs are more expensive than a Dell with the same list of features, if you don't count being able to run OSX as a feature. (which is the feature I bought those Macs for)
  • Adrianc333, on 10/11/2007, -12/+7Dell sucks. Always has, always will.
    • Dracos, on 10/11/2007, -4/+6I suppose you typed that comment on your bought-as-new Packard Bell that actually contained refurbished components?
  • booozeninja, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4Dell tried this stunt before with linux back in the late 90s. Its not genuine but did succeed in getting dell lots of press coverage just like now.
  • SnowBladerX, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7So quietly they forgot to remove this from the "Protect My Investment" tab
    http://i.dell.com/images/global/configurator/banners/warranty.jpg
    A graphic indicating you can get a 4 year warranty but the only option is 1 year mail in
  • akatherder, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3If you feel the need to pay for warranty service from Dell,.then you should probably just stick with Windows.

    Dell shouldn't offer support for any OS, and people shouldn't be stupid enough to waste their money on it.
    • Klowner, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7About a month ago I received a call from a dell saleswoman trying very very hard to sell me an extended warranty on my 1 year old laptop, I said "no thanks" at least 4 times, and then she began attempting to sell me some sort of "home support plan" for $260 which would provide phone support for ALL my computers if I had problems installing software or need help removing a virus. I chuckled lightly and explained to her that my laptop has been running Ubuntu literally minutes after I pulled it out of the box a year ago, and that my household is almost exclusively Linux only. I then went on to ask if her phone support provides Linux support, to which she said "Yes, any brand of computer, it does not have to be a dell". I had a good chuckle and declined a few more times and then she abruptly blurts out "Thank you sir even though you didn't choose to buy anything" and hangs up.

      So yeah.. I'm not paying $150 for a hardware warranty. If 1 or 2 year old system goes poof, just buy a new one from someone other than dell, because that'd be some crappy equipment to go dead that quick, and after a couple years you could buy a similar system for the amount you wasted on an extended warranty.

      That aside, I'm happy with my laptop. I'm just sick of the phone calls and emails telling me I need more warranties. Heck, I just got a "Birthday Card" email for my 1-year-old laptop today, that's a little ridiculous.
    • GabrielS, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4I know enough about computers to repair them almost all the time, but even I buy 3 year warranties for notebook computers. Those tiny parts are in slimmer supply, and thus much more expensive to obtain on our own. It is likely that one component in the notebook will fail in 3 years and the cost to correct will be more than the cost to purchase the warranty.
  • DuhStupid, on 10/11/2007, -11/+13Okay so somebody finally makes a PC with Ubuntu preinstalled after everyone crys and bitchs.

    So when they do it, you find every single ***** god damn reason to cry, bitch and moan about how ***** up it is.


    ***** babies.
    • Samus, on 10/11/2007, -8/+3http://www.williamthrash.com/cryb.bmp

      that pic sums it up
    • break99, on 10/11/2007, -9/+3Relax, *nix users don't remember doing anything else than crying and bitching.
    • OrangeTide, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Luckily for Dell it doesn't really cost them anything extra to offer a couple of models in a Linux-configuration. I think they'll get some traction from business customers, but for home users I don't see it selling machines. (I use either Linux or OSX exclusively, I'm not a windows fanboi at all)
  • mobilehavoc, on 10/11/2007, -3/+10I love how people bitch about them not offering the extended warranty but yet won't buy a system with or without it. I guess some people just like to whine and complain like little bitches.
  • sabrebutt, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7I'm sorry, I love ubuntu as much as the next guy, but really, how many of you even upgrade your warrenty or accidental damage services when you purchase machines? These are usually a rip off anyways. I used to sell these services for a major computer manufacturer and people rarely if ever need them or use them. The only time I could ever see needing to buy it is if it was for a business. Otherwise, please just repair it yourself or take it to a technician, I promise it's much cheaper.
    • chrisc262, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6EXACTLY RIGHT
    • OrangeTide, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1If it were a $2000 computer it might make more sense to buy a warranty. For $350 just buy a new (and faster) one or buy a replacement part for it. The silly warranties are pretty expensive anyways.
  • chrismgtis, on 10/11/2007, -13/+6No one *wants* to have anything to do with the technical support nightmare that is Linux. I'm surprised there is a warranty whatsoever.
    • GabrielS, on 10/11/2007, -8/+3+1 you

      I can hardly stand to reason with support for Windows users. They are just not inclined to learn any basics such as Windows Explorer.

      Linux would be entirely different to support over the phone.

      My solution has been to sell customers a comprehensive computing experience. Their internet connection is actually a DSL connection to my office. All the customers are just LAN users that I support. If I cannot support them all, I just hire an extra hand.
    • chrismgtis, on 10/11/2007, -4/+1It is hysterical how I get dugg down telling the truth about how much of a technical support nightmare Linux would be.
  • Exile29, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11I'd be humiliated if I had to ask Dell for OS support of any kind.
  • Jerim, on 10/11/2007, -4/+5I had this feeling from the start that this whole thing is going to be a bust. It all started with a poll that Dell created to gauge interest in several products. The Ubuntu fans flooded them with votes for a Ubuntu computer. This was based more off of Ubuntu fans wanting to see the product on the market, than actually wanting to buy the product. So Dell makes the computer, and sells a few units. I think after a few quarters, Dell will quietly retire the computer. It is not the OS that is bad, since I personally like Ubuntu. It is just that few average computer users are going to buy Ubuntu at this point. Dell sells to your mom, dad, grandmother and cousin who has a vague interest in computers. Ubuntu is for enthusiasts. As much as we may like it, it is not mainstream yet. I think this product is actually going to hurt Linux in the short term. Computer manufacturers as a whole will use this as the example of why they won't do a Linux system. They will all point to Dell's failure.
    • greenzrx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2All dell needs to do is tailor the amount of support to the number of calls. if they find that their linux products are creating an inordinate amount of trouble calls, they may well decide not to continue selling them. However, if they find that people who buy linux machines are more self-sufficient, why on earth would they discontinue the line? I can't imagine that keeping a few linux disk images around is that huge a deal. besides, if i were dell, i'd throw the linux bone to some of the people that already work there and are interested in linux.

      Throughout it's history, linux has been supported by enthusiasts, why whouldn't dell use the enthusiasts that already work there. I'd like to be able to work a linux box into my daily work life. (apart from ssh'ing into my home machine) i'd see it as a perk to be able to choose the platform i work on.

      Dell sells to more than just mom & pop. Corporations, schools, home users etc all buy from Dell. dell must see a growing market in linux, especially with the burst of support that Ubuntu has picked up, and they're looking to ride that wave. even if, as you say, they stop selling linux boxes in a few quarters, other manufactureres would be stupid to use that as an excuse not to sell their own, if there is demand for linux, *someone* will fill it. If there is no demand, then you don't need to point to anyone else's failure.
    • zervic, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2Grandma and Uncle Fred are going to notice the exact same computer costing a Benjamin and a half less, and wonder if maybe they could work a tad harder at that learning curve.
    • EagleRock, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Interesting point, but the thing you need to remember is that Ubuntu is not just an enthusiast's Linux distro. Ubuntu also attempts to make things easier for inexperienced computer users, indicated simply by their website. That is probably why Dell chose Ubuntu in the first place, and what they were counting on. The forums are always flooded with users, most of them asking dumb questions which get answered relatively quickly and politely. Therefore, the problem is not with Ubuntu's friendliness, but with the target market.

      If you're an enthusiast, what would you rather do: buy a Dell, or build your own machine? Personally, I wouldn't buy a Dell PC, even the XPS. I can get parts for cheaper and customize exactly to my needs.

      If you're a computer n00b going for a Dell, which OS would you choose: the one you know (somewhat), or one that is completely new? Let's face it - Dell isn't even marketing Ubuntu that strongly. Sure, the splash page has it now, but try going through the normal browsing as you would if you were just casually browsing...no Ubuntu at all. You need to go to the Ubuntu-specific page just to check it. Therefore, someone who might like Ubuntu, even if they're a n00b, won't even see it (especially once the splash page moves onto Dell's next marketing attempt).

      Either way, I don't think this will fly as much as Dell hoped for. Sure, they will sell, but not to Dell's expectations. Which means, of course, Dell will not expand the line, but will either keep it minimal or remove it entirely.
    • Shadowman, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3@Jerim
      I agree. This is starting to look more like a PR stunt. They really pushed these Ubuntu machines out pretty fast. They should have spent some more time working out some of the details like multimedia support. I think they are just trying to ride the wave generated by the Dell IdeaStorm before it subsided.
  • nephilimx, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Got nothing to do with with screwing linux fans, if ubuntu flops in next few months sales wise, they dont want to have to train people, just to deal with the 5000 dell machines still under warrant in 2years
    • break99, on 10/11/2007, -4/+2makes sense. Windows is the only OS with the total certainty to still be there at the end of the warranty.
  • davis2k, on 10/11/2007, -4/+2ummm... it's linux, go check a forum for your support... I'm pretty sure you'll get the answers you need much quicker from a community driven site then from tech support from Dell anyway... Anyhow, the idea here is that people that do not want to pay MS for a windows licence...well... shouldn't pay MS for an OS that they might not ever use.
  • returnofajedi, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Does no one yet understand that they aren't offering the software support, just the hardware support??? Man you people need to read.
    • hockey, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1This is digg. That doesn't happen here.
  • DaveV, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3I have an idea. Go ask 10 people who are not interested in Linux about Ubuntu on Dell, and I bet they know nothing about it.

    So much for the publicity stunt idea.
    • DonCarcharo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I disagree. I think it's almost certainly a publicity stunt and it's working, at least partly. It's not often new Dell products appear for discussion on major technology sites (Digg, Slashdot, etc.). So really, the plan is quite sublime.

      1. Earn the trust of Linux fans. They're quite a vocal bunch and they'll insist Dell is doing this in earnest. Dell supports open source, Dell loves Linux, etc. Just read around, most Linux users see this as a positive thing. And it can be, so they'll spread the word. That's marketing dollars at work. The bottom line here is mind share. Dell doesn't care about the platform, but as long as you think they do and tell your friends they do, that's all that matters.

      2. Dell now sells something that's not running Windows. This earns the ire of Microsoft and has a nice side effect of unchaining Dell from a vendor tie in. Essentially it provides them a way to sell a product at a lower price. I have little doubt that some people will purchase an Ubuntu system and load up their copy of Windows to save cash.

      In the end I think Dell will win over a few Linux users, they'll sell even fewer Ubuntu systems and I'll get Dugg waaaay down for having this opinion.
  • buckykrooks, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0True with break99. It seems Windows by and large are there in the end.
  • brufleth, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3Maybe Dell just doesn't want to offer support on a system that they're selling with an OS that is not supported. Wait wait hear me out. If someone runs into an issue with hardware not working because they screwed it up on a Linux install they might very well call Dell (since that's who sold them the computer after all) and if Dell sells them those support packages they might end up being responsible for trouble shooting the Linux installs. Now I know most of you think Linux and Ubuntu are some kind of wonderful but I know from experience that fixing issues on a Linux system can be very time consuming.
  • kjizzle, on 10/11/2007, -6/+3openSuse FTW!
  • freonchill, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1it would be nice if dell would have cheaper "hardware replacement" for the warranty for IT people.

    I got a laptop 4 years ago (for college)
    and dont move it around (other than going to class)

    in that time, i have needed the following replaced with normal "wear and tear"
    1yr - mobo (firewire connector died)
    2yr - lcd (backlight and pixel bunch out)
    3yr - mobo (pwr / battery problem - turned off randomly)
    4yr - hd (that came w/ the system - didnt use the first 3yr b/c got 7200rpm about 6 months after got machine)
    4yr - keyboard replaced (sticky keys)

    4yr - bought 2 batteries from my friend

    originally paid $2500 (including 4 year warranty)
    $50 for the 2 extra batteries
    2 mobos ($250 - $300 ebay) [$550]
    LCD ($200 ebay) [$200]
    laptop hd ($100 newegg) [$100]
    keyboard ($30 ebay) [$30]

    i would have had to pay atleast an additional $880 (b/c prices for the stuff now is hell of a lot cheaper than it was when it came out - i mean i just got the HD replaced Q1|07 and it was a 40gb 5400rpm ide 2.5" - and the spec sheet from dell said $199 for the part - for $199 i can get the new WD 250gb 2.5" 5400rpm hd

    so above when someone said that it costs dell $1000 for "A" repair on a warranty - thats in their "inflated" dollars

    im sure thats the same reason that car makers say that they selll you the car for cheaper than it costs to make
    when they charge you 400% markup on replacement parts after the fact.

    i mean i had the handle break on the recliner feature on one of the seats in my car
    GM / chevy wanted $150 for a new recliner assemby
    i got a replacement handle for $20 b/c i didnt need an entire recliner assembly - just a handle to stick back on




    • FuzzyCat, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3"4yr - keyboard replaced (sticky keys)"

      eeeeeewwwwww stop! stop!

  • MadOgre, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3So hardware is OS dependent?
    • Godlike, on 10/11/2007, -7/+1Good. I am really glad the rest of the users don't have to shoulder the cost of support for a few geeks running a software system that isn't compatible with ***** unless you've spent the last 4 years supporting unix and linux systems. That might not be a problem for me or many of you, but it IS a problem for 95% of confused users that won't understand _anything_ about their computers (not even 'click start' will be familiar) and Dell cannot afford to support it.

      Open source is a good idea with a greedy community. You expect everyone to bend over backward for an OS that you all have designed that is not compatible with 99% of the software on the planet.

      Try again with different ideology.
  • SirBotchness, on 10/11/2007, -6/+2Ubuntu doesn't even support itself, it's all community driven support. So how can you expect a company with no experience with the software to support it?
    • Altotus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Commercial Ubuntu support can be purchased from the distribution maintainer, Canonical. It's quite a bit different than RedHat. Canonical offers more consumer-centric support while RedHat is quite clearly focused on IT support.
  • SenorPez, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1OMG PANIC!
  • Scatterblak, on 10/11/2007, -8/+1"Is Dell serious about supporting Linux or was this all just a PR stunt?" Or, does Linux confuse users, not really work very well and, in the end, you get what you pay for? What a suprise! Dell is here to make money, fanboys; trying to support an OS built by public committee with no accountability is an excercise in futility. Grow up, and depend on an OS with a company behind it that has a vested interest in making sure it works.
    • archiesteel, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5It's ironic that you call other fanboys, when you yourself are such a fanboy that you don't even realize that this is about HARDWARE support, not OS/Software support.
  • archiesteel, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4Jesus, did any of you who are saying "Dell shouldn't support Ubuntu" or "Linux is a support nightmare", etc. actually *read* the freakin' article? This is about HARDWARE support, not OS/Software support.

    I can't believe how dense the Windows fanboys can be sometimes.
    • brufleth, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1When a Dell customer has a problem, say their computer won't boot, it could be hardware or it could be software. Maybe the tweaked something they shouldn't have when they were logged in as root. Anyway, the first response of most Dell customers is to call Dell, especially if that customer has bought some extended warranty. It makes little difference to them at the time if it might be a hardware issue. By not selling those warranties Dell can then simply say "We don't support the hardware if its broken and the OS is unsupported." As someone who has done a lot of hardware conflict trouble shooting in Linux I know it can be very time consuming to figure out if it really is a hardware or software issue.

      Really the flexibility of Linux is working against it here. Dell can't depend on Windows being the way it is (good or bad) because the Linux install can so easily be manipulated to make software issues look like hardware issues.
    • thesquirrelwood, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@brufleth

      I don't really buy this argument.

      On more than one occasion, dell support has told me to do a full reformat and reinstall of windows to verify that a problem I was having was a hardware problem. They can use the same technique for Ubuntu. But in fact, they don't even have to. If it isn't a cd-rom issue, then they can pop in a live cd and see if it is a configuration problem.

      Yes, gathering information about the system may be different, but I don't know that it is any harder than windows.
  • shaitanx, on 10/11/2007, -7/+2rm -rf / will make Ubuntu faster, I guarantee
    • SocialPoison, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3It said I had to be an administrator to do that... how to I bypass this?





      (yes I get it)
    • thesquirrelwood, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3sudo deluser shaitanx
  • insomniac8400, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3You all have it wrong, the support compared to windows must be a nightmare. After a few PCs went out and the phones have been ringing off the hook they realized support costs are too great.
  • OwdenBowden, on 10/11/2007, -4/+2Its Letterman... He replaces the "D" from Dell with the "H" on his chest to form the true meaning being that computer company HELL.
  • joesnow, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2it probably just helps keep the linux machines cheaper for us in the long run.
  • MajorOutage, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2I think the kind of people who would buy these machines shouldn't need (and therefore wouldn't want) said warranty coverage anyway.
  • Vektuz, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Only insane people would promise to support linux for four years. :D
    I've been able to completely break 'feisty fawn' using nothing but the add and remove programs menu, and doing nothing but adding and removing things like The Gimp. (Yes, I did file a bug, but still... it demonstrates the ease of which you can destroy a ubuntu installation).

    Note: the underlying linux operating system is rock solid and does not crash, but its VERY easy to accidentally stop the gui from ever starting. And to your average Dell user, the machine may as well be broken at that point, because fixing it involves editing the xorg configuration files in text mode using a tool like vi or nano.

    X crashes a lot for me. a LOT. And restarts. Linux supporters keep telling me that "but see? the underlying operating system did not crash, its rock solid, just the GUI crashed, and look, it automatically restarted for you." My response is generally that since I lost all my work and all the windows are gone and everything had to restart, from a user point of view its NO DIFFERENT from a blue screen and reboot..

    Just saying... while I'd prefer dell to support linux for longer... I UNDERSTAND
    • Altotus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Dell doesn't provide the Linux support. The article is referring to Dell withdrawing hardware support.

      Nobody pointed out that this is largely because their current hardware support is proving to be very expensive and they intend to phase out extended warranty support for non-business customers altogether. They're starting with Ubuntu because it's an easy place to start, that's all. It makes sense to start with a small segment of the customer pool first and gauge the impact. The logic is that you're only disaffecting a small group of customers, many of whom are percieved as being more computer savvy and capable for fixing hardware issues on their own.

    • generalloy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1"

      X crashes a lot for me. a LOT. And restarts. Linux supporters keep telling me that "but see? the underlying operating system did not crash, its rock solid, just the GUI crashed, and look, it automatically restarted for you." My response is generally that since I lost all my work and all the windows are gone and everything had to restart, from a user point of view its NO DIFFERENT from a blue screen and reboot.."

      Probably proprietary nVidia, ATI, or wireless drivers. DOn't blame Linux.
    • happycube, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Considering Inspirons are made of tissue paper and fail, making the extended warranty absolutely necessary, no *wonder* why they're losing money on them!

      To be fair, I tell everyone to get Applecare too, lest there winds up being a chronic problem in their i/MacBooks like the Radeon-popping-out issue...
  • demonstar55, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2umm... do linux users even care for this? I believe most linux users are more careful than the average person with their computer.
  • MadOgre, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1This isn't about support, this is about Dell biting off more than they could chew and are now backing out and screwing customers present and future. Just because you have one OS installed instead of the usual one, doesn't mean Dell should be able to get away with dodging out on the warranty if a MoBo or HD goes out... and that's just what they are doing. Your hardware doesn't care what OS is running if it gets static shocked.
  • TheNameless88, on 10/11/2007, -4/+1Wow, Dell is still just as dumb as I remember them being.
    • simpleid, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3They're also the first mass computing company to support that linux, you so love ooo so much, on desktop systems.
      be grateful for what you get.

      even microsoft took a few years to catch on once on desktop systems in the ol' days.
  • MavRevMatt, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1If it's a PR stunt,which I think it is, then Dell is in for a ***** of angry-ass people.
    • hiro, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3"If it's a PR stunt,which I think it is, then Dell is in for a ***** of angry-ass people."

      No it isn't. No they won't sell any. Yes they'll quietly drop Linux next yr. Nothing to see here, move along...
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