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Linux - Avoid ATI Video Cards

forums.whirlpool.net.au — We need to digg ATI some bad press. Unlike NVIDIA, they refuse to provide driver support for Linux. They can't continue to get away with this: Many Windows users are starting to want Linux compatible hardware, because they have "the switch" in mind.

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  • ssam, on 10/11/2007, -21/+157ATI won't even let an opensource r500 driver be released.

    http://digg.com/linux_unix/ATI_Real_Position_on_Open_Source_Drivers
    http://airlied.livejournal.com/31180.html
    http://airlied.livejournal.com/43975.html
    • t3hbagel, on 10/11/2007, -66/+33Ubuntu has a driver for my 9600XT. Works fine.
    • jasmin888, on 10/11/2007, -47/+22ATI X1600 works under linux (sort of) they do not support native 3d effect (I'm currently using x1600 on linux full resolution etc.)

      SO I AGREE ATI DESERVES SOME BAD PRESS FOR THIS
    • bias, on 10/11/2007, -95/+29I thought Linux gives you more choices? Where's the "Freedom" if you have to throw away your hardwares, softwares and your games?
    • kingkilr, on 10/11/2007, -22/+135This is pretty old news, i.e. 3 years...
    • Genius16, on 10/11/2007, -18/+55Yes the news is rather old. As of now, my roommate is running his x1600 under debian sarge with KDE and Beryl running. Its still not EASY to do, he had some fun with that one, but no need to bash ati for something that happened over a year ago.
    • billlyboobs34, on 10/11/2007, -87/+21What? People are still using Linux? That's so... late 90's
    • slythfox, on 10/11/2007, -19/+11ATI needs to pull their act together. My MX420-equivalent laptop functions better than my old x700 in Linux with official drivers for both! What the hell!
    • totallyAMAZING, on 10/11/2007, -21/+344Apparently people don't read the rules of Linux hardware:
      1. No ATI
      2. Check the hardware compatibility list
      3. "Partially supported" means "barely functional if you can get it to install."
      4. No ATI
      5. No, really, don't use ATI.
      6. Really, I don't care if you're a fanboy, don't use ATI!!!
    • billlyboobs34, on 10/11/2007, -64/+11Wow, my comment got dugg down faster than a teenage girl using IE...
    • code_of_life, on 10/11/2007, -2/+16The drivers I downloaded for my radeon from ATI's driver site did not install.
      I used the ENVY install script from http://swik.net/Envy and it installed fine.
      Note that DRI still does not work in dual-screen mode (9800Pro). DRI works in clone/single screen mode.
    • JaYBrooks, on 10/11/2007, -8/+6Isn't there an issue with SGI and ATi?
    • miloez, on 10/11/2007, -39/+13ATI/AMD has much bigger problems to worry about than a bunch of whining linux brats.
    • codyallen, on 10/11/2007, -67/+11***** linux, it's *****, so are the ***** fan boys ruining digg
    • ksponge, on 10/11/2007, -17/+7@miloez (#6814430)
      Like losing money dummy? Make the easy connection or go make me some food.
    • sterken, on 10/11/2007, -5/+54ATI has no obligation to release their source code, however, I see nothing wrong with letting the world know about it. Had I known that I would run Ubuntu on my desktop, I would have chosen the hardware differently, and I hope other people read this and consider it when they purchase hardware next time.

      Since I have switched to Ubuntu, I won't buy another ATI card until they open their drivers up. I have an x1600, and it's a lot slower in Linux than windows. I'm using multiple desktops, I've got direct rendering working, etc with the binary driver they supply. Sometimes I have video card-related crashes that require reboots (screen turns trippy colors and I can still telnet in to the machine, Ctrl-Alt-Backspace doesn't help), still can't get Beryl running (I think it has to do with multiple desktops on ATI, not sure though).

      Friend of mine uses NVidia and plays the same games, has Beryl running, etc. Similar hardware otherwise, so I dunno.

      And by the way, I was an ATI fan before, but it's just not worth the trouble to me. I'm just waiting for my next big computer upgrade. With Dell offering Ubuntu Desktops now, I might actually go that way and upgrade the hardware a little or something.

    • mooninite, on 10/11/2007, -3/+19*shameless plug*

      If you guys look at the unofficial ATI Bugzilla, you will see the list of "known" bugs: http://ati.cchtml.com

      Installation help can be found on the unofficial wiki: http://wiki.cchtml.com/

      But... I own nVidia graphics cards.
    • zmigliozzi, on 10/11/2007, -23/+6It's like you guys think its a problem to write your own drivers. : )

      I run ATI pci-e with *nix, I have no troubles, I guess I know a little bit more than how to install something with next and install buttons.
    • sterken, on 10/11/2007, -2/+16I just noticed that this was just about driver support and not opening the drivers, which is even worse. They sell a card, release the drivers, and offer no support for it? My point still stands whether talking about either open sourcing the drivers or at the very least SUPPORTING your drivers.

      Nothing wrong with making informed decisions.
    • Azor, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13"ATI won't even let an opensource r500 driver be released."

      It's the same driver - remember, it's a unified driver. sheesh...
    • roosterjm2k2, on 10/11/2007, -22/+15I guess linux users dont generally like to pay for things, it would make sense that you dont understand capitalism/consumerism...

      If enough people stop buying ati because of linux, then they will see the need and change. Otherwise, they wont. Plain and simple, it will cost time and $$ to develop for and support linux, if they dont see a plausible return on that, they won't do it.

      You have the choice to use or not use ATI. You're not forced to ever use ATI, so switch. If you want to use a niche-market OS, you can expect niche-market support.

      btw, I have a laptop and a desktop both with ati in them, and run ubuntu with compiz and (on the desktop) dual monitors, play WoW and x-plane...and do anything else I need to. Never had a problem with it.
    • bias, on 10/11/2007, -30/+6Freedom according to Linux users is having thousands of confusing Linux Distributions to choose from, thousands of mediocre applications to use, thousands of tutorials to read, fewer games to play, fewer hardwares to use, less time to enjoy your life.

      Yea it really is all about choices, Choices as in Fewer Choices.
    • ilovenicotine, on 10/11/2007, -6/+7I think it's ridiculous for ATI to not provide much support for Linux, but I'm not going to raise a stink about it. It's their loss and when they care one day, maybe I'll go back. For now nvidia has better cards and better support. Intel's got better processors than AMD at the moment too. If AMD/ATI wants our money back they can earn it. Good post. I'm all for competition (lower prices) but there is none at the moment and I'm totally OK with that for now.
    • evolver, on 10/11/2007, -7/+20The reason this is being done is because a simple boycott is not enough. Who knows they should boycott ATI? How do people know? Answer? Places like Digg which have proven VERY effective at getting attention as well as broadcasting message like this. I guarantee you that thousands of people who weren't completely aware of the ATI for Linux issues, including newbies switching from Windows would have been in for a headache if not for this message explaining why ATI cards should be avoided for present and (for the moment) future Linux users. So Kudos to the one who started this effort. If you don't make issues public, the public remains divided, ignorant, and vulnerable. Ghandi himself considered the newspapers his most powerful weapon. Imagine if he had the Internet.... For the Linux community, Digg will make ATI consider more aggressive actions because thanks to Digg, its no longer just a few separate whining geeks, its a unified community. After that, the boycott becomes effective.
    • dwiest, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1Since when has nVidia released open-source drivers? As far as I know you're stuck with blobs for x86 only.

      I believe that ATI has released some open-source drivers for their cards, just not the latest ones.
    • JonForTheWin, on 10/11/2007, -1/+17>I guess linux users dont generally like to pay for things, it would make sense that you dont understand capitalism/consumerism...

      The point of this is to give ati bad press so MORE consumers can be informed and "vote with their wallet".

      It would make sense you don't ***** understand capitalism/consumerism.
    • caleb4mj, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3ATI should provide competitive open source graphics for Linux for many reasons.

      If they don't agree with us why not issue a Press Release or Open Letter to the Linux community and state it honorably?

      The only reason I have for them to write drivers or release specs is to encourage me to buy an ATI graphics card. Haven't owned one since the Radeon 9600, which I got in a trade. And Intel just looks sweet from a Linux perspective, with excellent price/performance and open source drivers. If I were AMD and I bought ATI, open source drivers would be top priority, as well as mending relations with the Linux community.
    • damentz, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10> Since when has nVidia released open-source drivers? As far as I know you're stuck with blobs for x86 only.

      But you have to commend them for optimizing their drivers, supporting new standards more timely(aiglx) and not breaking on each kernel release. One of my friends plays CS Source through wine with his 8800 GTX and it doesn't fall below 100 fps.
    • jamdogg, on 10/11/2007, -9/+4I'm using Ubuntu Linux with ATI it works like a charm. Just get drivers through easyubuntu, follow some simple installation instructions and get full screen high res graphics. Linux isn't for end users who like to be spoon fed anyway.
    • Zuggy, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1I think the reason ATI doesn't care about linux as much nvidia (if at all) is their target markets. ATi's main market is desktop computers, while Nvidia has a huge commercial market and most rendering clusters use some sort of Unix-Variant (Linux, FreeBSD, etc.), so it pays off more for Nvidia to develop drivers for more then just windows then it does for ATI

      It may not be right, but that's the business sense behind it.
    • coredump0x01, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3@Zuggy
      ATI targets workstations and render farms also http://ati.amd.com/products/workstation.html If anything, they should be trying their best to out-do Nvidia in all target markets. But they don't, instead they just consistently shoot themselves in the foot.
    • Lylepalooza, on 10/11/2007, -6/+2My Ubuntu Feisty is running an ATi 9200 smooth as freakin silk?? what's the problem?
    • tamrix, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3My 9500pro was defacto non supported in Linux.. let me say that again NO SUPPORT!!

      The drivers worked which was SUCH A PAIN in getting it to work, and then it would just crap out every few hours or even minutes and crash X..

      I got a nVidia card and swear to the lord i will NEVER go back to ATi or recommended ATi to anyone..

      And sadly i used to be an ATi fanboy, but now not only did they lose sales from me, they lost sales from everyone i know and everyone who has asked me for help when picking a graphics card.
    • smithpg1002, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5"Get away with what? Is it *illegal* to not provide linux drivers? Dont like ATI? Then buy nVidia. I dont see why everything on Digg needs to be a holy war."

      I agree with this, except I'd like to add a couple of things, without getting flamed...

      Is this like a fifth coming of Linux or something, or are most of the digg users just now finding out about Linux and this is why Linux is making so much news on digg?

      I'm not in any way knocking Linux, I've got a couple distros running on various machines right now. But I remember installing Linux just to play the Quake 3 Demo (which first came out on Linux) back in early 1999.

      Linux has always sucked as a desktop computer, and what I mean by that is, would I let my grandmother use it. Ubuntu has made great strides to make it accessible to ordinary users, but they still have a ways to go.

      You guys are shocked and make something as silly as this a front page story. Its economics to ATI. For the vast, and I mean 99.9% of their customers, are users of Windows, and for their crazy expensive cards, are game players. Most all games are Windows, first, if not only. I suffer as well as I prefer Mac. In their case they have to weigh the cost of development time for a largely unsupported (for their demographic, which is gamers) market or just not do it. The same reason why programming jobs are outsourced is the same reason why they can't afford to spend money supporting an OS that brings them no revenue.

      Now, if Gabe Newell or John Carmack got behind OpenGL and overall Linux support like Carmack did back in the late 1990's, then you'd see ATI jump at the chance to release drivers. Carmack gave up on Linux (except in after thought) because there wasn't a unified direction in it's development.
    • moman, on 10/11/2007, -3/+5IS EVERYONE WHO IS DIGGING THIS STORY ON CRACK????????????????/


      AMD/ATI just announced less than 3 weeks ago that they are OPEN SOURCING ALL THEIR GFX DRIVERS

      Dont believe me?
      http://enterpriselinuxlog.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/05/09/amd-will-deliver-open-graphics-drivers/
      or just google "amd ati open source drivers"
    • 21chrisp, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6"AMD/ATI just announced less than 3 weeks ago that they are OPEN SOURCING ALL THEIR GFX DRIVERS
      Dont believe me?"

      Actually... no. Rather... I don't believe ATI. They seem to go through this cycle of pumping up increased support and then dropping it flat every year or two. Who knows why... Maybe this time it will be different. *shrug*

      However giving them bad press or starting a digg war against them is pointless. It's up to them to define what market they want to sell their graphics cards in. If they don't want to release for Linux, that's their decision. If they want to release only crap software, again their decision. I personally would rather just not have any than have crap, but that's my own preference.

      I personally use Nvidia specifically because they have generally better drivers on all platforms and are much more platform independent than ATI. ATI has very little money to my name for that reason. With ATI now a part of AMD, I may buy less AMD for the same reason. It's no reason to start a war against them though... if you don't like it, don't use it. They'll lose the millions of Linux users that mostly run on after market video cards (yes a few percent of hundreds of millions is millions). They could hit them with just a few more hired hands. Their loss.
    • unikuser, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1Any one thinks wining like this makes ATI provide good drivers for linux? They won't give a ***** about the linux driver support what ever we do.
      I also have a X1600 which has crappy support.
    • Tenoq, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Really getting to be a lose-lose proposition, ATi! Can't use ATi/AMD on Linux, due to the lack of drivers, and if I buy nVidia again, I'll have to put up with the six-month lifetime of their cards (on my 5th nVidia card now that has died 6 months after installation).

      It's getting ridiculous! Some REAL competition from SIS or VIA wouldn't go astray - give ATi & nVidia a kick up the ass.
    • xst4t1kx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2@tamrix: In the same boat but never been able to get my 9500 fully functional. Friend has an nvidia card he is going to swap me and if all goes as expected I'll be avoiding ATI in the future.
  • satempler, on 10/11/2007, -122/+15According to ATI's relese notes they do support Linux and no problems mentioned on that fourm. Also there was news just recently that AMD will open up parts of the driver to the community. Here is a blog posting http://www.michaellarabel.com/index.php?k=blog&i=213 some more things are to come so read your news before blowing up. also check your dates please
    • lonniebiz, on 10/11/2007, -16/+120Are you an ATI rep or something?

      ATI is full of empty promises when it comes to supporting Linux. We need to be tough on them until we see the hard results OF a promise. Don't lay off of them because of a promise again; that's how they've slipped away in the past.
    • schestowitz, on 10/11/2007, -21/+43@ lonniebiz: you beat me to it. Also, every time Flash gets mentioned, someone from Adobe shows up. In Netscape, if I criticise Dell, some rep shows up as well. The death of social bookmarking? I hope not. But some of my friends ditched Digg when the Microsoft shills entered in large numbers...
    • aldenhg, on 10/11/2007, -9/+86Old news? Do you even use Linux? I just got an Nvidia card because my Radeon wasn't supported in Linux.
    • SultanTravi, on 10/11/2007, -18/+4My friend's laptop has ATi graphics and he has a lot of trouble running linux because of the graphics. I believe he can't even use the ATi graphics, although I would have thought a laptop would not have motherboard graphics in addition to the ATi ones. Either way, your claim is just wrong. Lots of people have that issue.

      However, since my desktop is a PC gaming computer, I still use ATi on it because in my price range I could get the graphics power of a $100 more nVidia card.
    • jasmin888, on 10/11/2007, -16/+1UPS
    • daven1986, on 10/11/2007, -11/+5but my ati card works fine in linux. it is a bit old now x700 but it still works with little effort. the only hard bit is getting into the gui installer!
    • cliffzdude, on 10/11/2007, -16/+10Do Linux fanboys NOT underswtand their percentage of the market is so ***** small ATI doesn't really give a flying ***** about them? Damn fanboyism drives me ***** crazy, be it Microsoft fanboyism or Linux fanboyism.


      @ Schestowitz, you are by far one of the biggest fanboys to ever spend time on Digg, to call somebody who is not a Linux fanboy a Microsoft "shill" is proof positive of your slanted, deep seated fanboy status. Your reply of how much Microsoft sucks so that is "why" you are fanboy is without merit. Its a ***** OS, not a way of life.

      Me? I'm OS agnostic. I use Linux and Microsoft at home ~and~ at work. I work in IT for a living, and I use what suits the purpose best. Its never always ANY ***** OS, to say otherwise is, well, ***** annoying fanboyism!

    • freedomknight, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5@lonniebiz

      I am not surprised since this AMD clown is in Microsoft Get the facts page.
    • naio, on 10/11/2007, -13/+5schestowitz is the ***** anti-MS moron of Digg. He gives the Linux community a bad name.
    • harlowsmonkeys, on 10/11/2007, -8/+4@schestowitz

      According to a prior comment of yours here on Digg, *anyone* who likes anything of Microsoft's must be a paid shill.

      So, when are you going to start a boycottati web site, and host it on an inexpensive provider, like you do with boycottnovell.com, and then post links to it all over forums and news sites, thereby making a tidy profit on your Google ads? (Don't try to claim boycottnovel is expensive to run...I have a reseller account at the same place you use, so am familiar with the costs there).
    • JonForTheWin, on 10/11/2007, -5/+6>anyone* who likes anything of Microsoft's must be a paid shill

      I'm willing to believe it. Then again we still have some dumb mother ***** in this world so hypothetically microsoft fanboys might exist.
    • ordminute, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3Wow, so just why is it that Linux users sing the praise of NVIDIA's support of Linux and not ATI's? Some sort of 'meme' or a fad? For god sakes, don't insult us by writing off those 100's of 1000's of forum posts written by poor bastards trying to get the to bottom of some bizarre instability or even get direct rendering at all.

      NVIDIA drivers _work_. They give absolutely stunning performance on Linux to the fullest capacity of the hardware and really they mostly always have. That's all we millions of Linux users want: to use what we bought to its fullest on what is arguably the best OS available right now.

      Naturally NVIDIA's support of Linux is largely due to NVIDIA on Linux being a standard in the feature film industry: Maya + NVIDIA +RHEL on a Dell Intellistation is behind most of the animated features you see these days. But what about the portable market? ATI has that sewn up but is sidelining Linux users. Meanwhile Linux is the fastest growing OS and has been for a few years. Intel has super drivers for Linux, NVIDIA too. It's not looking good for ATI/AMD given the current rate of Linux growth. They need to sort it out or publically confess their complete lack of interest now. Don't ***** us. My next portable will have an NVIDIA card in it.
  • baalzebub, on 10/11/2007, -6/+15i do like Nvidia graphics cards a lot, and have had some problems with ATI in the past, now that ATI has merged with AMD i am waiting to see what AMD/ATI has to offer in the future for those that like to build their own PCs, i rather build my own as it is well worth the few extra bucks for top notch hardware...

    i am not going to start condemning ATI, the AMD/ATI merge just happened late last year so i think people should give them time to come up with the new products, if i don't like what i see there always is Intel & Nvidia...

    • eean, on 10/11/2007, -2/+29And we think AMD is going to be a "Linux positive" influence on ATI why?

      http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543~108748,00.html

      Just a couple of years ago, most Linux folks bought AMD. They were the "little guy" when compared to Intel. They had 64 bit processing.

      But then AMD bought ATI (a long time adversary of Linux) and more importantly Intel has started providing good support for Linux drivers. Whereas before the fact that AMD didn't pay much attention to Linux was just the "standard", now they look absolutely horrible compared to Intel.
    • Elranzer, on 10/11/2007, -0/+17I have no idea why Linix users are advocates of AMD. Intel has always had better support with Linux, from their wireless chipsets to graphics cards. Especially with laptops, an Intel Centrino-based configuration works much better and everything seems to work (as in all its features work).

      It could be because AMD use to be so close to NVidia before the AMD-ATi merger, and NVidia is a close second in Linux dirver support, and the best option if you want real 3D functionality in Linux.

      The whole "underdog"/"little-guy" way of thinking goes no where in Linux. You don't buy something just to support a company, even though it may not work right. Remember that AMD still makes billions, just less billions than Intel.
    • geodescent, on 10/11/2007, -7/+4How can you have no idea why anyone would support AMD when the price difference on the processors is close to $500?
    • atlvol, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6@geodescent: What are you talking about? You can get an E6600 for $200, and it will beat pretty much anything AMD has to offer, especially considering you can overclock it to 3.2 GHz without raising the voltage.
    • cynicist, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3Whoa before you guys get carried away, AMD has supported linux. They have released large parts of their BIOS code to support the LinuxBIOS project. Intel has done the exact opposite.

      source: http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/free-bios.html
  • fk0fk0, on 10/11/2007, -9/+14i'm very pissed about this question, i have a x1900xtx and the latest four version drivers cause me the common problem of the black screen of death (a hardware reset is required).
    That's the last time that i leave 400 eur for an Ati.
  • earls, on 10/11/2007, -8/+50Agreed. I am (was) a fan of ATI products, however if they can't do something simple like provide basic Linux support, off with 'em. Not that their Windows support is something to right home about either...
    • subliminalurge, on 10/11/2007, -6/+59Write on
    • sirber, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2I'm sure you don't want to hear again about CCC and ingame issues...
    • vornan19, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I used to run a Mac G4 (450mHz) that had a ATI card. I never noticed the difference between when I ran with a driver or without. When I switched to Linux (same machine) the driver absolutely sucked. Then I switched to x86 and it has a nVidia card. So I DLed the driver, installed it, restarted the x server and voila! Speaking for myself the choice is clear; nVidia.
    • xspinkickx, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1yeah, but at least the windows drivers give users use of the latest ati hardware, and features..... but yeah there windows drivers are pretty much ass....
  • PirateChaOS, on 10/11/2007, -35/+14Well, I run an X800xl in Ubuntu, and I have compiz and everything running fine with direct rendering.

    Some people need to quit bitching.
    • Buelldozer, on 10/11/2007, -9/+40Some of us don't want to fudge around with aiglx in order to do compositing.

      ATI's Linux support is horrid, which is why there is a shiny new NVidia card in my shiny new computer.

      After being a faithful ATI supporter since 3DFX went under I finally gave up on them. I will no longer tolerate, or spend my money with, a manufacturer that will not make a good faith effort at supporting my OS.
    • PirateChaOS, on 10/11/2007, -36/+6well, i'd rather have a company with crappy linux drivers than one that uses driver cheats to make its cards benchmarks better than they really are.

      If you can't figure out AIGLX, then you shouldn't be using linux in the first place. Go buy a mac.
      If you want the best performance for your dollar, then you should run windows (for games) with an ATI card.
      Ati with AIGLX fills all my linux needs. I game on windows, because thats what the games are designed for.
    • Buelldozer, on 10/11/2007, -8/+34I can "figure out" aiglx just fine. I've used it before. I just don't WANT to continue using it.

      I also like to run games natively in Linux, because ID software gives me that option. Why don't you get with the 21st century and stop with the "only windows plays games" crap.

      BTW, OpenGL games often run FASTER under *nix, even with an ATI board, than they do in Windows XP. With Windows Vista it's not even close.

      When you've learned a thing or two about Linux and are doing being a pompous ass get back to me. Until then STFU and let people who have legitimate gripes talk about them.
    • PirateChaOS, on 10/11/2007, -35/+5go ***** yourself buddy.


      If you are bitching because you can't run a handful of games that you can run in windows with the same card, then I would have to say you are the dumb ass here. I didn't say that only windows plays games, but it has a hell of a lot more, and runs most of them a hell of a lot better than any system out there. Quit your bitching because you can't solve your own ***** problems.
    • SteveMax, on 10/11/2007, -1/+22You run an X800, an old generation. The problem is with the current (2x00) and previous (X1x00) generation cards. They just don't let people who purchased their cards recently use their computers well; this only gets worse if you consider laptops.

      With NVidia, you can go and buy anything, and you will know it's supported. With ATI, you need to stay one or two generations back. Do you find this acceptable?
    • coredump0x01, on 10/11/2007, -1/+16"Well, I run an X800xl in Ubuntu, and I have compiz and everything running fine with direct rendering"

      But I bet you're using XGL, which does not properly run most games and other apps. Or you're using the open source Radeon driver. ATI's official fglrx driver does not support AIGLX which is one of the reasons we're bitching.
    • ksponge, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7@piratechaos (#6813635)
      How about I don't and I just get an Nvidia card instead? What do you think? Actually, nm I could care less what you think.
    • josh1413, on 10/11/2007, -8/+2sudo rm -R usr/home/piratechaos
    • Veurruckte, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7Posting shell commands doesn't make you cool.
    • josh1413, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1@veurruckte

      Bothering to tell someone that typing shell commands doesn't show that they are cool shows that you have no life.
    • Veurruckte, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5@josh1413

      Bothering to tell someone that bothering to tell someone that typing shell commands doesn't show that they are cool shows that you have no life shows you are a hypocrite.

      :P
    • josh1413, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Nice!

      :P
  • tendrils, on 10/11/2007, -6/+12All I want to do is run beryl and have 3d acceleration.
    • Snarfy, on 10/11/2007, -1/+36You can do that simply with crappy onboard Intel video. Unlike Vista, Compiz/Beryl doesn't need the latest hardware to work in an accelerated manner.
    • PirateChaOS, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5you can, google is your friend.
    • bkrishnan, on 10/11/2007, -5/+10I have ATI X1300 on Ubuntu and it works like a charm (3D, big desktop, dual screen etc). But had to do some plumbing to get them working. I just followed the instructions from these links:
      http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Ubuntu_Feisty_Installation_Guide
      http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1773544
    • SEMW, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7> You can do that simply with crappy onboard Intel video. Unlike Vista, Compiz/Beryl doesn't need the latest hardware to work in an accelerated manner.

      Heh. My Mum got a new laptop with crappy onboard Intel shared graphics, and Aero works fine on that.
    • bubbazanetti, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2#1 Article was over a year ago.

      #2 Linux is free.

      #3 I just installed Ubuntu Studio last Saturday, installed the drivers for my X1600, then installed beryl and virtualbox. This was the forth time I EVER installed a linux...and the first time in two years.


      Maybe you can't run the newest cards...and maybe you can't game...
  • lilSears, on 10/11/2007, -25/+7What's the point of fancy drivers if we can't play video games much on linux yet?I know there's wine but it's easier to dual boot unless everyone's planning on playing Quake Wars- about the only decent new game that might run native on linux.
    • Buelldozer, on 10/11/2007, -7/+40Any games made by ID software will run natively in Linux. There are other as well. Please join the 21st century.
    • PirateChaOS, on 10/11/2007, -33/+9wow, ID software, one company out of thousands!

      Dualbooting is the only real way to play games and run linux.
    • Hubris, on 10/11/2007, -2/+25Unreal Tournament has historically been released with a linux native version. If UT2K7 is released with a native version, it should be on your list as a decent game.
    • Buelldozer, on 10/11/2007, -2/+26Enemy Territory, America's Army, Unreal Tournament..how many do you need?
    • saguratus, on 10/11/2007, -3/+22@piratechaos
      I disagree. Both wine and cedega have matured greatly, and can play a majority of windows games at native speed (or faster). There's also quite a few other companies who make the effort in porting their games over due to the increased popularity of desktop linux (e.g. Serious Sam).

      If you have trouble getting games up and running via wine, you should consider Crossover Office. Out of the box support for WoW, all Steam games (CS:S, HL2:E1, etc), EVE Online, and much more, and requires no use of the terminal.
    • aldenhg, on 10/11/2007, -3/+21The Unreal games have native Linux binaries and Wine/Cedega work decently for older games. Linux isn't a gaming platform, but that doesn't mean there aren't games that work in it.
    • dainbramage559, on 10/11/2007, -2/+16Hey man, after installing a dedicated sound card into my linux box (sound was actually the crippling factor for running games in WINE), almost all my usual games I play in windows run near-perfect. That is to say, I've gotten CS:S, Doom III, Prey, UT2K4, Painkiller, RTCW, and a few others working great. And the thing is, it just keeps getting BETTER and BETTER with every WINE release.
    • KWhat, on 10/11/2007, -2/+18Yes, and ID software is one of the only companies that still produces quality games... EA and there half fast philosophy does not equate to quality game play (BF2 anyone?). ID made a very good point with quake4 and doom3. Linux is a viable gaming platform that can run games on less hardware and can be support with a little extra effort from game developers. Thank you ID for you commitment in pushing the envelope.
    • PirateChaOS, on 10/11/2007, -24/+1Your missing the point. You are bitching that your drivers aren't good enough to play games, but then you are running most of them under an emulator. Common sense dictates.

      I'm done with this, if you don't realize that you are bitching about gaming drivers when the games you are playing under wine and cedega are Windows games, and the drivers for windows beat nVidia then you should seek help.
    • eean, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Google Earth, Beryl...
    • saguratus, on 10/11/2007, -1/+19@piratechaos
      This is a common misconception. Wine and Cedega are NOT windows emulators! (Haven't you heard what Wine stands for? W.ine I.s N.ot an E.mulator). The best way to explain it is that they remap the API's used in a windows application. Yes, there is some overhead, but it's minimal (usually 1-3%). Many games, notably WoW, not only look better, but they're often faster than they would be in windows (15-30% for WoW on my hardware). Better yet, it can be combined with technology like Beryl and net similar performance. The state of graphics drivers under linux is improving greatly, and is not as bad as most people think.
    • JaYBrooks, on 10/11/2007, -8/+3A few Points...
      If you want to run games... You should just stick with Windows...
      There are plenty of issues with drivers for Linux. I can tell you that there are plenty of open source drivers that work fine.. I run GL stuff on a Rage128 on a mac... Works fine... I run GL on a IBM Laptop with a R100 (7000 series Radeon) Works fine.. You will hit snags because it isn't a script that you run to make these type of things work.

      3D desktop acceleration is still alpha at best.. I gotta admit. It does look cool, but I don't run linux for the geewiz.. I run it because it is free. Free stuff usually will have a cost. The cost is you will need to do research to get stuff to work. If you don't want to do this stick to Windows or OSX.
    • BlindIrishman, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1Nethack!
    • Mais, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6@piratechoas

      Again and again you prove your idiocy and lack of knowledge on the subject. "WINE is not an emulator." WINE makes native versions of Window's system files. That is NOT emulation and can in fact produce results better than Windows itself. Emulation would require running Windows on top of Linux and that just does not happen.

      There are also many games that on and for Linux systems. From first person shooters, to strategy games. To say Linux is not a gaming platform is proof that your head has been stuck in the sand. The only thing holding Linux back is software companies like EA not releasing Linux binaries.
    • RyeBrye, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6"Emulation would require running Windows on top of Linux and that just does not happen."

      You should tell that to VMware. I guess they haven't heard that "just does not happen" yet.
      (of course you would never use vmware for games... etc.)
    • Wyzard, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@ryebrye:
      "(of course you would never use vmware for games... etc.)"

      It works pretty well for 2D-only games, actually. Starcraft and Total Annihilation, for example.

      3D support is the main issue with gaming in VMware, and they're working on developing that too.
    • EbilPhish, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2There has been some work in getting 3d acceleration running under virtualized OSs, vmware added some support for running 3D including DirectX in Fusion (or whatever there 'ultimate' version is called) and qemu/xen has VMGL to get OpenGL running in them (no DirectX yet afiak).

      Unfortunately these solutions aren't that useful currently (well I can't comment on the vmware one, I've never used it so I don't know how complete/fast it is). They would run slower than native obviously although possibly not too much as virtualized systems run at near native speeds.

      WINE/Cedega are useful to get some stuff running, but in the end its only some stuff and a lot of the time it runs your game %99 but there is some minor graphics glitch that makes it completely unplayable, i tried Sid Miller's Pirates the other day on Cedega6, its actually an officially supported game but would corrupt the picture when I entered a town until I restarted the game (kinda hard to see the save button).

      When games do run they often lack shades and such so the graphics look fairly horrible. This seems like it is often the reason games seem to run faster under WINE than native Windows, not because Linux is awesome (although it is :) but because there is a whole heap of stuff that is skipped. (Although faster Filesystems and better scheduling etc sure help).

      I'm not going to be playing C&C3 or STALKER under Linux any time soon, I just hope Spore (if its ever released) gets Cedega support quickly :( hopefully it will being not that graphically orientated and sure to be a popular game.
  • Xansas, on 10/11/2007, -38/+6The lack of support for my X1900 has driven me away from Linux...
    • thetaco82, on 10/11/2007, -10/+40Yeah, because it's totally an OS problem.
    • ciproxr, on 10/11/2007, -7/+7OS problem or not what can he do at this point but consider buying an nvidia card in the future ? I run ubuntu and i love it but i had serious problems getting it to work, i even had to throw in a old sb live sound card to get decent audio cause my on board sounded like crap, yet in windows the on board sounds better than SB live. So im stuck with less quality sound cause i want to run linux. I understand its not linux's fault but how to you expect people to use linux if your hardware wont work with it.
    • nerdtron, on 10/11/2007, -4/+6Why is he getting dugg down? That's a totally legitimate sentiment. Perhaps he tried to migrate to linux after already purchasing a system, only to find that support for his video card did not meet his expectations/needs. It's not realistic to expect that people can in all cases tailor their system specifically for linux support and having to buy a new video card is as much a barrier to migrating to linux as it is to upgrading to vista.
    • Veurruckte, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3The fact that xansas, ciproxr, and nerdtron are all being dugg down demonstrates how biased the Digg community is. Xansas has a completely valid point. The lack of support obviously isn't the open source community's fault, but no one said it was.

      I've been running Slackware and FreeBSD for 3 years now, but if I had an ATI card I don't think I would upgrade for the sole purpose of running *nix. I just can't justify spending $200 on a graphics card to run a free OS (Or any OS for that matter, including Vista).
  • Snarfy, on 10/11/2007, -18/+31As an nVidia fanboy I must say this ATI bashing is unfounded. Sure ATI Linux support isn't as good nVidia, but they ARE working on it. AMD has already stated they are committed to better Linux support for their newly acquired ATI.

    Bitching at someone while they work doesn't make it happen faster.

    • Buelldozer, on 10/11/2007, -9/+36Some of us have been waiting for YEARS for ATI to properly support Linux. Like say since 3DFX went under.

      Just how long SHOULD we wait before we start bitching?

      I emailed ATI three years ago about the state of their Linux support and not much as changed since then besides more empty promises.

      I buy NVidia now. ATI has lost my business.
    • bigtomrodney, on 10/11/2007, -4/+13Actually if everyone would look back there was a time when there was NO 3D acceleration under ATi. Look at the Article - It's from 2006. Now I'm not saying ATI are doing great, but aside for gl_texture_from_pixmap the fglrx is an excellent driver and the ati/radeon open drivers work exceptionally well on the older hardware.

      I agree that ATI and nVidia should ultimately open the drivers up despite all of the nonsense IP/Trade Secrets/Competition nonsense but I'm not going to pull crap out of the air like this article. ATI drivers are in a lot better condition than they were 2 years ago. Maybe it's just that all the new users don't have the benefit of retrospect to see how far things have come and how far they will go.
    • Buelldozer, on 10/11/2007, -3/+8bigtomrodney,

      I first installed slackware in 1996. How long do I have be around before I get "the benefit of retrospect"? I'd kinda thought that after 11 years I knew a thing or two. :(
    • bigtomrodney, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4"Maybe it's just that all the new users don't have the benefit of retrospect to see how far things have come and how far they will go."

      Unless you voluntarily put yourself in the new users category I wouldn't take it too personally ;)
  • tacklebox, on 10/11/2007, -23/+13What the point, I have a graphics card to run games, I wouldnt bother with linux unless I wanted half of those games not to work properly.

    Linux is great for getting away from "the man" but really its just a turbo nerd thing.
  • Piggycow, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7Well if you have Linux you really don't seem to have any other choice besides ignoring ATI...
  • tizz66, on 10/11/2007, -17/+10Don't buy ATI then.

    Oh wait, that means ATI will see a drop of a few thousand units sold, so they really don't care either way.
    • Buelldozer, on 10/11/2007, -11/+22You underestimate both the power and the scope of Linux users.

      For instance, since I gave up on ATI I won't buy, nor recommend, laptops or desktops with ATI graphics cards or chipsets in them. Over the next 5 years that will likely add up to hundreds of laptops, and desktops.

      Now multiply me by tens of thousands of Linux geeks who are upset with ATI and have a purchasing / recommending role with companies all over the world.

      It's going to hurt them.
    • spudnic, on 10/11/2007, -12/+7@Buelldozer (#6813724)
      So even if ATI was perfect for what was needed, you wouldn't recommend it because they don't support linux? I really hope you explain why you don't recommend them, because the vast majority of people just wont give a *****
    • Phocion55, on 10/11/2007, -6/+30Wow. Narrow minded....

      Family/friends come to me everytime they purchase a new computer for suggestions. They ask me to help "build" them one online.

      I immediately don't select/recommend anything ATI. If asked, I fervently suggest AGAINST ATI.

      It's not just Linux users - it's Linux users who help family/friends make computer purchasing decisions.
    • tizz66, on 10/11/2007, -20/+6Look, I don't care how much power you think you have. ATI is a business, and they'll go where the profit is. If enough Linux users were boycotting them to make a difference, they'd listen to you. They aren't listening to you, so they don't care what you think in your current numbers. Sorry, that's how it is.
    • Buelldozer, on 10/11/2007, -2/+16Why would ATI ever be "perfect for what I needed"? They don't do anything that Nvidia doesn't, that's the purpose of competition!

      Your absolutely right, the vast majority of people "just won't give a *****". They won't give a ***** whether the box has ATI, NVidia, or Intel in it. So when I sell them an NVidia, or Intel, solution they will be perfectly happy.

      WHY should I continue to sell for ATI when they've done nothing but irritate me? As long as I can fulfill my, and my clients, needs using something else I will.
    • aldenhg, on 10/11/2007, -3/+19You'd be surprised the scope of influence this Linux user has.
      I'm a computer tech. I fix computers and consult when my clients need new computers. I have a few clients who are medium sized businesses, all of which recently updated their computers. They asked me to find the best solution for them, so I had carte blanch to configure every computer they use. Guess how many lost sales that was for ATi. It's not under 100. And that was just last month. Consider the impact that I could have in a year.
    • Buelldozer, on 10/11/2007, -3/+17@tizz66,

      Oh but we DO have power. Why do you think ATI is suddenly starting to care about the state of their Linux drivers? They're issuing press releases and big promises to do better in the future.

      The state of their Linux support is likely not the only thing leading to the declining market share, but it sure isn't helping them any.
    • Buelldozer, on 10/11/2007, -3/+18@aldenhg,

      THAT is exactly what I'm talking about. These diggers who are home users only don't understand how much influence some of us have over business clients who buy desktops and laptops by the truckload.

      Since I started the "No ATI" policy at the beginning of the year I've steered a considerable amount of business away from ATI and to Intel and NVidia.

      If you think that's not hurting ATI then take a look at their declining market share and guess again.
    • MedHead, on 10/11/2007, -12/+4Bluster! Scoff! Harrumph! I do say! My word!

      Buelldozer:
      "You underestimate both the power and the scope of Linux users."

      / No, I'm pretty sure we aren't.

      "For instance, since I gave up on ATI I won't buy, nor recommend, laptops or desktops with ATI graphics cards or chipsets in them. Over the next 5 years that will likely add up to hundreds of laptops, and desktops."

      / Five years for "hundreds" of laptops and desktops. ->FIVE
    • MedHead, on 10/11/2007, -11/+3Bah, stupid comment editing killed my post.

      cont'd:

      FIVE YEARS. Dell made 14.1 billion dollars in the second quarter of 2007 alone (Dell sells ATI). I don't think your few computers a year will hurt them.

      Besides, if you're such a Linux geek, why didn't you know that ATI doesn't support Linux? Are you recommending ATI to friends without doing any research on them?
    • Buelldozer, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9@Medhead,

      I knew that ATI had problems, but up until the first of this year I kept trying. As I said before I was a faithful ATI customer. I kept believing that things were going to get better with their Linux support.

      It's interesting that you bring up Dell since they are going to start offering Ubuntu pre-installed, but only with supported hardware. Where do you think that is going to leave ATI? :::smirk::: Wanna guess how many Linux Geeks were involved with that decision? :-)

      Your sales perspective was nice, but unfortunately for your argument I chose a conservative number so as not to appear boastful. Besides, this isn't about my impact alone. It's about my impact multiplied by the tens of thousands, or millions, of people just like me all over the world.

      Additionally, please remember that the whole world is not the United States. In many other countries the Linux userbase is rapidly growing. Manufacturers who choose not to support Linux will pay a penalty for that decision in developing markets.
    • MedHead, on 10/11/2007, -6/+2Buelldozer:

      Yes, I know Dell offers Linux. To offer Linux, Dell has to only install it on the computer. For ATI to offer Linux drivers, they have to spend money on research and development for a *free* operating system that doesn't have a large marketshare. The cost involved in offering a Linux driver is far greater than Dell offering Linux on a few computers.

      You also continue to assume that there are a bunch of Linux users out there who 1. don't already know ATI isn't the best choice for Linux, and 2. would find continued lack of support in one operating system as grounds to boycott the company in the markets in which it supports. I think the segment of Linux users ignorant of system requirements is rather small, but I'm only going by what I'm reading here in this topic.
    • naio, on 10/11/2007, -6/+2"It's not just Linux users - it's Linux users who help family/friends make computer purchasing decisions."

      Yes, because you are a legion!

      Morons...
  • Zoltair, on 10/11/2007, -31/+11So you guys expect some company to produce for free, software and drivers for some minority OS, LMAO........
    • thetaco82, on 10/11/2007, -14/+10Yes.
    • Phocion55, on 10/11/2007, -4/+32We bought the hardware, didn't we?
    • spyrochaete, on 10/11/2007, -2/+22The cost of materials of a video card is pennies. The entire price you pay is in research and development. Of drivers. For operating systems. ATI's customers are entitled to a working product or they will be customers no more.
    • FuzzyCat, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8
      No, and if you had read the first comment and followed the links, you'd know that someone has actually done it for them, they just wont allow it to be released - so that's zero effort required for ATI.

    • MedHead, on 10/11/2007, -4/+4ATI doesn't want others making drivers because it will only cause ATI headaches with customer support. If ATI doesn't want to support Linux, that's their choice. Don't buy ATI, then.

      I'm shocked that people would buy a card that doesn't support Linux, then complain that it doesn't support Linux. Why buy the card, then? It baffles me.
    • belly917, on 10/11/2007, -4/+1It's not "for free" if you purchased their product.

      Besides, the current state of ATI Linux drivers are okay.. They are not great, and they're not horrible. I've gotten Compiz & Beryl to run fine on both my laptop & desktop, as well as a few 3D games. People are overreacting with the amount of bitching that they're doing, but on the other hand, ATI should do a better job tying up all the loose ends with their linux drivers.
  • chris9902, on 10/11/2007, -7/+4- error
  • juniorlikespie, on 10/11/2007, -12/+4linux while great you have to accept what u get. you can't expect a company to support such a small market. stop whining about it and just go nvidia.
  • grevvvvvv, on 10/11/2007, -4/+22"We need to digg ATI some bad press. Unlike NVIDIA, they refuse to provide driver support for Linux."

    Why is this a problem? Why is it their obligation to support Linux? It's well known that they don't support Linux, so don't buy an ATI product and then bitch and moan how it isn't supported. That's like bitching about a car you bought that doesn't come with AC, because you never bothered to double check or just didn't care.

    "They can't continue to get away with this: Many Windows users are starting to want Linux compatible hardware, because they have "the switch" in mind."

    So what is the problem? If they want Linux compatible hardware, maybe they should buy some.


    BTW I'm no fanboy or anything, I've never even owned an ATI product in my life.
    • eean, on 10/11/2007, -5/+5Actually plenty of people don't know about ATI sucking on Linux. They buy their computer and then a few months later have a hard time installing Linux.
    • stevensj2, on 10/11/2007, -3/+5"Actually plenty of people don't know about ATI sucking on Linux. They buy their computer and then a few months later have a hard time installing Linux"

      And how is that ATI's fault?

      If a user, for whatever reason, did not look up hardware requirements and make the necessary decision afterwards (either install new hardware, or don't install unsupported software), there is a good chance that user will not be successful with linux.

      Linux, by its very nature, requires a certain level of familiarity between the user and the hardware. If you expect to install things and have them "just work," linux is not for you.
    • Wyzard, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1@stevensj2:
      "If you expect to install things and have them "just work," linux is not for you."

      That's historically true, but a lot of people in the the Linux developer community are working to fix that problem. Look at Ubuntu, for example -- it tries to make things "just work" as much as possible.

      As a Linux user it's frustrating to see friends decide to try Linux but run into problems with things that the Linux community *can't* do much about, like ATi GPUs and Broadcom wireless cards.
    • eean, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Did I say it was ATI's fault?

      Its certainly a good reason to avoid ATI though. The keyword being *avoid* not boycott... its not that they are immoral, its just obvious they don't want our business.
  • thnksnow, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7my comp is 100% amd/ati (motherboard is ATi xpress and gfx card is ATi X1800) and Linux OpenGL is working fine. but im not sure how performance compares to nvidia.
    • dainbramage559, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15Ease of setup for ATI compared to Nvidia is terrible under linux.
      Graphics options (AA and Ansioscopic filtering) are nonexistent with ati drivers under linux.
      OpenGL performance on ATI under linux is horrible.
      ATI lacks support for AIGLX, thus getting beryl to work is a pain compared to setting it up using nvidia.
      I often had to disable pixel shader support under WINE when using ATI, thus making the games look like *****. I don't have this issue with nvidia hardware.

      I've had experience with both graphics manufacturers drivers under linux for the last year and a half. And while I've seen continuous improvements on the part of nvidia, ATI has done nothing to show any driver maturity.
    • coredump0x01, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3And Nvidia's drivers ship with a tool that allows you to force AA and AF in any OpenGL application, including Beryl. It's awesome to be able to play ancient games like Doom 1 and Tribes 1 with 16x AA and pretty textures. And for newer games, sometimes Nvidia's forced AA and AF is faster then the game's built-in options.
    • Canute, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Lemme tell you how it compares. I have installed World of Warcraft, and im emulating with Wine. I have two graphic cards, 1x Ati Radeon X800, and 1x Nvidia Geforce TI 4400. (Yes, my computer is getting pretty old ;p)

      The Nvidia card is probably 5 years old (very high-end when I bought it) compared to the 2 years or whatever the Ati card. Even so, the Nvidia card outperforms the Ati card not only by a margin, but I get TWICE the fps. This is with the exact same settings.

      When talking 3D-desktop and that sort of things, it's peanuts even for Ati. Hell, even the open source drivers could do pretty well. The difference is with heavier stuff.
    • Chandon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Here's a couple of easy to see examples of ATI's *horrible* Linux drivers:
      1.) Log in as a second user using "fast user switching" (i.e. the "Switch User" button in the "Log Out" screen) on Ubuntu (probably any Gnome distro). This starts a second X server.
      2.) Try to browse Digg in Firefox. Note that you aren't even getting basic *2D* acceleration any more and things like scrolling & DHTML effects are dog slow.

      1.) Try to run a 3D application / game under Compiz or Beryl. It didn't work? That sucks. You want your four hours back? Sorry, no can do.
  • zovres, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9yeah all my experience with ATI and Linux have been horrible. Nvidia has been great. And I'm not even talking about how poorly my games run with an ATI compared to an Nvidia of the same price.
    • dainbramage559, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Indeed. Simply installing ATI drivers was a pain and a half when I first began using linux a year and a half ago. In fact, I had to use all sorts of workarounds (no matter what machine I was installing ATI drivers on), making the whole experience seem rather 'hackish'.
  • DannyB, on 10/11/2007, -11/+33"We can't let them get away with this"

    LOL, like you have some ***** right as to how a company chooses to do their business.
    • jonesin, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11I hear tell that some people buy stock in companies and bring up their complaints with how they run their business at the shareholders meetings. Anybody got some ATI stock?
    • Buelldozer, on 10/11/2007, -4/+8I'm an ATI stockholder. I own part of the company. It IS my business! :-)
    • damndj, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8I've been an nvidia fan since the Riva 128 and can't see myself buying any other company's card for the foreseeable future.

    • nerdtron, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7@ Buelldozer: You own stock in a company you're actively boycotting? Now I'm no expert on the matter, but that seems like a bit of financial masochism.
    • remccain, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1dannyb spewed this out of his pie hole:
      "We can't let them get away with this"

      LOL, like you have some ***** right as to how a company chooses to do their business."

      In America, we damn sure DO have the right to tell a company how to run their business.
      We vote with our wallet. We open our mouths. We lobby their reps. We campaign against them.

      Surely you understand the concepts of capitalism and free speech, eh Comrade?
  • Vannion, on 10/11/2007, -3/+8http://ati.amd.com/support/driver.html
    See the option titled Linux, that then had multiple drivers. Are we sure they don't offer any Linux video drivers?

    I am using them for my integrated Radeon Xpress200

    Seems they have them for my Radeon 9700 series as well...
    • shinigami2057, on 10/11/2007, -2/+15We're looking for GOOD, STABLE, feature-full drivers.
    • Sambone67, on 10/11/2007, -4/+2Yeah, my X800 runs fine, even got Beryl running after I found the right info. Problem is everyone wants everything yesterday.

      If I could get my Emu 1212 soundcard running I'd be really happy...
    • lazka, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12ever watched a mpeg2 video with your "driver"? type "top" in your terminal and see how it eats all your CPU
    • thetaco82, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Oh, they have drivers alright, but they are TERRIBLE. There are some good open source solutions, but they lack hardware acceleration. ATI's proprietary drivers are a nightmare to configure properly. I've tinkered with my system enough trying to get full support for my X1900GT that I can actually type "fglrxinfo" as quickly as I can type my first name...

      I currently have hardware acceleration, but ALL video playback other than .flv is totally fubar. It looks as if the bottom, left hand corner of the video was moved to the bottom right. The rest of the video is skewed, creating a diagonal line where the edges meet in the center of the screen. Using the open source but crippled (thanks again, ATI...) drivers, playback is fine.

      That's what I call support.
    • coredump0x01, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3"I am using them for my integrated Radeon Xpress200"

      I have that board too. How do you like the double-buffer tearing in OpenGL and any video over 320x240? And how about that 0 fps in Quake 4 compared to the 15+fps it gets in Windows? And the fact that bump mapping in games as old as Tribes 2 still brings the framerate to it's knees? And the fact that I STILL need XGL to run Beryl because ATI refuses to support AIGLX.

      Yeah, ATi has such marvelous drivers.
  • jollyroger814, on 10/11/2007, -5/+11im going out on a limb to say that there isn't a substantial amount of windows users that have the "switch" on the mind. ATI pretty much ***** everything up. Try finding good laptop drivers sometimes a couple of years after you bought the damn thing. I don't like them that much, but whatever.

    Back to linux. ATI is a company. They don't make money by making drivers. The linux market is mega small. The windows market is huge. What they should do, is open up the code for a lot of these drivers and let the linux people make there own. However, I don't blame them for not caring that much, they aren't making any money off of you.
    • Urusai, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12Yet somehow Nvidia manages to make a decent Linux driver. Closed source, true, but far better than the closed source ATI driver, which does work btw, just not as well. The comments in the article imply that there is no support at all for X1?00 ATI cards, yet they are supported by the fglrx driver, which beats VESA.
    • Xanium4332, on 10/11/2007, -1/+16Yes but without drivers they won't make any money from their CARDS!

      Oh and for the guys calling us idiots saying we can't get the drivers working.
      1. No AIGLX support from the binary drivers
      2. Random hardlocks, not my fault, just ATI's (if I run the opensource drivers, it's fine)
      3. Random incompatibilities
      4. NO USER SUPPORT (at least with nvidia you can chat with the developers on forums etc..)
    • Chandon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1> The linux market is mega small. The windows market is huge.
      The Mac market isn't significantly larger than the Linux market, and they don't seem to have any trouble supporting Mac OS X. Hell, we don't even need them to develop drivers - we just need them to release the programming documentation for their hardware so that existing volunteers can write functional drivers.
  • BladeArrowney, on 10/11/2007, -6/+4You all are really making a big fuss over nothing. The old ATI used to come up short on alot of things. When AMD took over, I was hopeful that my biggest issue with them, their poor drivers, would get better.

    http://enterpriselinuxlog.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/05/09/amd-will-deliver-open-graphics-drivers/

    AMD is on it, how about you be a little patient and let AMD reshape ATI into something useful.
  • cozb, on 10/11/2007, -5/+9"because they have the switch in mind.."

    lol, I have been hearing that since day one and guess what, the average person still hasn't heard of linux...

  • craftyguy, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3DAAMIT
  • FieldAnonymouse, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7I must be one of the exceptions with ATI products. I have none of the driver problems people always complain about in Windows, and when I did do a little poking at linux I got the ATI drivers going for my 9600XT by reading and following the damn instructions.
  • kjartan, on 10/11/2007, -6/+10"They can't continue to get away with this"

    Yes they can - they can do whatever they want. You make it sound like they're breaking the law when all they're doing is ostracizing a ridiculously small customer demographic. I'm sure they'll do something for it if/when they find it marginally profitable
    • kjartan, on 10/11/2007, -5/+5supplemental:

      yeah, it's *****, but understandable.
    • Wyzard, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2This is true, but there's nothing wrong with the Linux user community trying to convince them to change their minds. :-)
  • zovres, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7right now I have 2 machines with ATI cards, I spent hours trying to install the drivers and gave up so they can't do 3D. I have 3 machines with Nvidia and installed the drivers in no time/effort.
    I used to do support for a facility that had quite a few machines and we avoided ATI at any cost because of that very reason.
  • Akram, on 10/11/2007, -13/+3boo hoo....linux this and linux that....stop complaining...they have other priorities, they will get to it eventually.
  • ninnghizidha, on 10/11/2007, -5/+8I bought two .. err .. three new Nvidia-Cards since i started with Linux. The ATI i had when i started with Linux is burried in my old-hardware-chest. I wont buy ATI again and guess why: cause of their linux drivers.
  • linksus, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6Just my 2cents.

    ATI sux on linux. unless your one of the lucky ones with a slightly supported card.

    At least with nvidia they tend work work straight out of the box. and if not its always an easy fix.

    Damn ATI muppetry!
  • CoRP5e, on 10/11/2007, -20/+8Just stfu and use windows.
    • Phocion55, on 10/11/2007, -9/+7Spoken like a good little MS customer
    • thetaco82, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1Spoken like a true Microsoft executive.
  • NikoKun, on 10/11/2007, -4/+6This is why I bought an Nvidia card this time around...
  • webpoet73, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2I just installed Ubuntu and I have an ATi card. I didn't realize that it wasn't driver supported... oh, well. I don't have the cash to put into another video card. So, the crappy support will have to suffice. Or maybe I could send a few emails to ATi and bitch at them!
    • Epyn, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7Yes I ran ubuntu on my radeon 9800 pro a few weeks ago. Poorly. I gave up after a week of juggling restricted drivers and barely getting beryl to run.

      I installed it on my other machine with an nvidia 7900gt and within an hour I had beryl working in all ways, full 3d support and got wine running my games. First time using linux as well. ATI is just too damn finicky to get my hardware money in the future, nivida cards are rock solid by comparison.
  • lastrite, on 10/11/2007, -3/+4I was an AMD/ATi supporter but lacklustre linux drivers and performance have made me jump over to the Intel/Nvidia bandwagon, perhaps the ever increasing loss in sales might get them to improve support.
  • ThinkFr33ly, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8Ironically, nVidia sucks for Windows Vista while ATI had awesome support from day 1.

    Looks like the two companies take different approaches. nVidia decided to spend their time supporting
  • dulymachine, on 10/11/2007, -7/+2You're really all a lot of idiots if you can't get an ATI card to work in linux, I've gotten 6 different cards to work on 3 different architectures and 5 different distros, 3-D accelerated and not. If you like memory leaks and plenty of other ***** from nvidia, use their proprietary drivers. My desktop has an ATI card and my laptop an nvidia. Neither one has a clear advantage (to me) as being supported by linux, their both pretty easy. If you want something to work in linux, deal with what you get and figure it out your damn self.
  • SsbFalcon, on 10/11/2007, -5/+6So... how is it that I can get an x1400 to run with full 3d support, XGL, beryl and the full 1680x1050 and not with an x1600? Did the guy who's complaining even bother to install the fglrx drivers and configure their xorg.conf correctly?

    I say criticize ATI for their crappy driver performance (about 1/4 to 1/2 less performance than the Windows Drivers), and lack of proper feature support (Vblanking is still an issue, and where's the AIGLX support?) But don't criticize them on user incompetence...

    If they can't handle that themselves, get a distro that takes care of the messy work for them, such as Sabayon, which detects everything beautifully, chooses the correct drivers for your system and configures the system beautifully ati, or nvidia, with beryl and a few game demos and whatnot...


    Yes, ATI linux support sucks, and Nvidia is the best choice for linux (not to mention Windows sans Vista), but to state something inaccurate I can't accept...

    Besides, anyone with half a brain would know better than to choose an ATI card, even in a laptop if you're going for linux... I didn't really have much of a choice since I got mine for the low power consumption and at the time ATI had the better, low power consumption gpu (ATI 9000), and then my laptop was unexpectedly upgraded when I filed a complaint with Dell and overheating (the dreaded 600m),

    but I have no problem with it, and as I type, there are snowflakes floating behind this firefox window...
    • drjson, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2It's not always a user issue, search for x1300/x1400 mobility and fglrx... You'll find all kinds of stories of getting those going. Oh I can get the drivers to work, but there are massive incompatibilities with power saving. This is a huge deal killer for laptop owners. For me, I was willing to (at the time) give ati a shot and save $400 on my dell laptop instead of having to upgrade 3 or 4 components to qualify for the nvidia card. With Dell now offering linux, I don't see that being a real viable option for everyday users with the broadcom and ATI issues. These were typically the setups for the best deal laptops and likely won't even be offered with Linux support because of the hardware incompatibilities.
    • philz, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1You lucky guy, I invite you to help me getting it to work with my X800 XT - I've tried for days now and will buy a nVidia soon..
  • darthabominis, on 10/11/2007, -13/+6Poor baby stop your complaining, I am sic of hearing how "everybody is moving to Linux" and how "hardware makers MUST give us there hard work for free so we can make our own drivers" Get Over it. Linux is just a small fraction of the OS market, If you want hardware to work under Linux then before you buy it LOOK to see if it has a driver first! Remember you get exactly what you pay for. NO OS is perfect but vender's will ALWAYS go where the money is, don't delude yourself thinking otherwise.
    • darthabominis, on 10/11/2007, -9/+3Digg me down more. I know the truth hurts
    • MedHead, on 10/11/2007, -5/+2Wait a second - you mean there are system requirements on the boxes of these things?! If only I had known sooner! Why didn't anyone tell me! How long have they been doing this? YEARS?! WHAT?!

      Man, if only I'd started reading these boxes sooner, I wouldn't be in the predicament I am in now, trying to run hardware and software not supported by my system. What am I saying - I'll just boycott the company for not doing what they didn't promise!
    • Buelldozer, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3How do you figure "hard work for free"? I'm pretty sure that people are paying money for their hardware!

      @MedHead,

      I've made a pretty close review of the ATI website and nowhere do I see "Windows" listed as a requirement for any of their current generation cards. Can you point me to it please?
    • mantene, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@bulldozer & Medhead

      Not aiming to get into the middle of a battle but:
      http://shop.ati.com/product.asp?sku=3122114
      It isn't listed as a system requirement. it has a separate heading called Operating System Support.


      Operating Systems Support

      * Windows® XP
      * Windows® XP x64 Edition
      * Windows® Media Center Edition 2005
      * Windows Vista™ Premium ready

  • AlanLivingston, on 10/11/2007, -5/+7What a 'tard!

    You got four choices.

    1. Figure it out on your own and reverse engineer a driver. (Hard)
    2. Make your own video card and write your own driver. (Probably harder. Definitely more expensive).
    3. Switch to a video card with whose manufacturer supports Linux. (This is the Duh! choice)
    4. Switch to Windows. (You're probably just playing games anyway...)
    • Hayl, on 10/11/2007, -3/+4Exactly. This is old news too, ATI has never ever had decent drivers for Linux and from what I hear, their Windows drivers blox too.

      It's just too bad that there are only 2 choices for 3D Graphics cards.
    • eean, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Educating people that they should choose 3 is the whole point.

      Intel and nVidia all the way.
    • MedHead, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2There are Linux users out there who don't know about driver support issues?
    • eean, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2There are certainly potentional Linux users who are ignorant, just as the article description notes.
  • PURDooM, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9Vote with your money. Thats how things work in our capitalist society. Don't like what ATI is doing? Buy nVidia. Nobody owes you anything.
    • jma06, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Yeah! But that's expensive. Ranting on forums is cheaper :-).

      Seriously, I bought my ATI card when I was not serious about 3D in Linux. I still don't think it is worth the pain to tinker with Wine for Games. I just reboot for that. But now 3D desktops are looking great and actually functional and my ATI card won't do a good job with bad driver support. My next card is definitely going to be NVidia. But not for a while.
  • shauncullen, on 10/11/2007, -4/+6Just my opinion, but I think nVidia consistently produces more powerful video cards that utilize the most recent advances (dx 10) faster than ATi. That alone is enough for me to stick with nVidia.
  • sterence, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3i'm running ubuntu feisty using an radeon xpress 200, no problems. perhaps the newe graphics cards give you issues, but i'd argue that envy works. it's solved all of my 3d accelerated linux woes.

    http://www.albertomilone.com/nvidia_scripts1.html
  • NanoStuff, on 10/11/2007, -4/+5The list of reasons for avoiding ATI video cards is an extensive one.
  • richardtallent, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Random thought: I wonder whether nVidia's close alignment with Apple on the Intel-based Macs allows them to support Linux with far less additional effort?
    • JonLatane, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2That doesn't even make sense. All the Macbook Pros and half the iMacs use ATi graphics. The Mac Pros also offer ATi as an option, though I will grant to you that their default is nVidia. Plus, nVidia has had better drivers since long before Intel Macs came around.

      Besides, making drivers for Linux/X11 and for OS X are two completely different, unrelated things. There is an X11 implementation for OS X available from Apple for UNIX compatibility, but Aqua doesn't use it at all. The compositing/rendering/video setup is most likely completely different between OS X and Linux.
  • kn0xy, on 10/11/2007, -4/+1@tacklebox:
    Interesting perspective, never thought for one second that people were getting away from a constantly targeted OS Family like Windows because they just want to give 'The Man' the slip.

    Just one question though, what were you updating while making your comment? Was it A) Windows Update, B) Antivirus Update, C) Antispyware Update, D) Trojan Scanner Update, E) Software Firewall Update or F) All of the Above ?
    • Topher06, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0G) None of the above actually even though I am running Windows. But then, I have never hard to compile any of the updates, kernels or drivers I have received in order to get them working for my version of "insert flavour of the month" Linux.
    • JonLatane, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2@Topher06

      Funny. Me neither. Except I've been using Ubuntu for about 2 years now. Of course, when I did want to compile something because it was brand-spanking new and not available as a package yet, it took me 2 commands to do so.
  • SintraKikuta, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2My X1650 Pro works fine on Unubtu (7.04), and didn't seem to have any problems on Backtrack either...
  • coheedcollapse, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I have an ATI mobility radeon 9700 (translated - crappy laptop graphics card), and the restricted driver install works for me just fine. I have beryl installed and there is absolutely no slowdown whatsoever.

    I'm not saying that ATI not releasing their drivers isnt crap, but my Ubuntu setup works fine with an ATI card.
  • JangoFett, on 10/11/2007, -7/+3Linux users -> Whooo, look at me! I'm cool because I don't use Windows! Now I'm going to whine about the lack of driver support!

    Articles like this were why the "Buried as lame" button was invented.

  • Tjeerdoo, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1I got my x1600 to work under linux using this HOWTO ( http://forum.ubuntu-nl.org/topic/7468 ) unfortunately it's in dutch...
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