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Linux for human beings? A windows users perspective to Ubuntu
easylinux.wordpress.com — This Windows user is challenging Ubuntu's moto: "Linux for human beings". I'm not confident in his screenshot abilities (!!), but the content and layout are good.
peterjonez- 734 diggs
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- hater2win, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Though there are still only a few articles on this website, it looks like it is a pretty unbiased look at Ubuntu. He seems to troubleshoot the main problems the way it needs to be done. He really helps outline how easy to use Ubuntu is.
- btipling, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Yeah this is a good article. I checked out Ubuntu a few months ago to see what all the fuss was about and I never went back to Windows! I went through the same things this person did.
- diggmann, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8They really need to include EasyUbuntu and put an icon on the desktop that says "Install all the ***** you need for Linux to be useable but we're too afraid to include"
- barbobot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16If you want to pay for the legal fees im sure they would be happy to.
- mooninite, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10The reason why they are afraid to include somethings are for *legal* reasons. The last thing they want is a patent lawsuit.
- diggmann, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Yes, I understand the legal issues with including MP3 support, but that still doesn't stop them from explaining the situation to the user and offering them a solution up front instead of catching them off guard ("what? why can't I play my mp3s?") and making them hunt for an arcane solution (after a couple hours of googling... "apt-get? what the ***** is that?")
Besides, I think Mr Shuttleworth could afford to either fight the patent or just buy a license for ubuntu. - mooninite, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9What is there to explain? You are getting totally free software (as in beer and speech).
You are too used to downloading Windows ISOs and getting everything for "free." - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"I understand the legal issues with including MP3 support, but that still doesn't stop them from explaining the situation to the user and offering them a solution up front instead of catching them off guard"
That would actually be a good idea, but then again there are plenty of other things they could do to fix this problem. For one, there are companies out there working on Legal (aka Licenced) MP3 codecs, and one of these could be installed by default in Ubuntu (For example, Fluendo's GStreamer MP3 codec). Another idea would be for Ubuntu as an organization to get a sponsored codec (which is my favorite idea), owned by Canonical and licensed for Ubuntu users [the downside of this is that it would likely introduce some cost to Ubuntu, which would actually just be paying for codecs, or Canonical would have to bite the several million dollar bullet]. Thirdly, they could install RealPlayer by default, as Real 10 has a legal MP3 codec running on Linux. Lastly, would be simply asking every user after install to install "additional packages" like with the EasyUbuntu toolchain, and saying "hey, we didn't put it there, the people installing it did".
So there are solutions to the problem, they're just trying to delay having to solve them, because none of them are particularly attractive answers. - leszek, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7aren't the legal issues in the US only ? (because software patents don't apply in Europe)
Couldn't they make 2 versions of ubuntu : one for the US and one for the rest of the world with mp3 and dvd and ..
about the mp3, the ogg format exist and is more performant than mp3. The only problem is there is very few portable ogg player. - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"Couldn't they make 2 versions of ubuntu : one for the US and one for the rest of the world with mp3 and dvd and .."
Sure. But that becomes a pain in the ass when you realize you've got two different distributions to manage, and because Ubuntu sends CDs to everyone, they've now got to manage where they send CDs containing which CDs, etc. Possible to do, but nobody cares enough because things like EasyUbuntu exist, and the unsupported formats are an apt-get/Synaptic fetch away.
"the ogg format exist and is more performant than mp3"
Sure, and there are a billion other audio codecs in existance that could be used instead. But not only is MP3 supported by everything on the planet, there are also a million different utilities out there that operate on them in software, and is generally easier to code for due to all of this information. It's just like trying to get people to switch from GIF to PNG, only PNG is unilaterally better supported than OGG will probably ever be. - zootm, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6It would be interesting to include an application like EasyUbuntu/Automatix which, after installation, asked you what country you were in (since you'd probably be legally obliged to confirm that), and installed the "questionable but useful" packages which were legal in your area.
- muyuu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Absolutely. It would rock if they did that, but it wouldn't be easy.
Mind you, because scrutinizing legal pitfalls in just ONE country takes eons. Imagine doing it just for, say, the 30 most populated countries in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population (leaving many important countries out)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) (not so bad, still leaves out countries like Finland or Israel)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita (leaves out China for instance)
So you have to make difficult compromises, because international laws are a pain. - zootm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Good point muyuu. As desirable as such a system would be, it's unlikely to be practical.
I wonder if people would be willing to pay a small fee to enable DVD/MP3/etc.? Like, click something to pay the licence fee, on a "licence cost + administration only" basis.
- porkbun, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1Windows needs $... Ubuntu is free.. that's all
- mooninite, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9The "features" he finds are not because of Ubuntu, but because of changes in the GNU/Linux universe. HAL is the main reason why his USB drive works out-of-the-box, not Ubuntu.
"Why can%u2019t I use the button on the CD drive?"
You can.... it's just that Linux distros leave it disabled for mounting reasons. With the switch to HAL as a main interface, you can pretty much safely enable the button on your CD Drive.
Edit your /etc/sysctl.conf (maybe different on Ubuntu, this is on RedHat/Fedora)
and add
dev.cdrom.lock = 0
Save it and reboot to press your precious button!
or
sysctl -w dev.cdrom.lock = 0
to make the change without a reboot, but you still have to add it to the sysctl.conf file.- Tobey, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14Do what now?
I think you proved the author's point... - mooninite, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Tobey, if you used a GNU/Linux distro for your work machine everyday, but never took a class or read a book, you'd understand it just as well as I do. The first step is to install a distro and run it for more then 2 hours.
- deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7How is this any harder than digging in the Windows registry for a cryptic setting?
Believe me I'm not suggesting Ubuntu is perfect and always 100% user friendly but please don't confuse familarity with ease of use. Windows is sometimes a major PITA to configure but most people are familar with its quirks so they don't notice as much. Look at the registery for example, is that easy to use? Is digging through dozens of dialog boxes easier than typing in one command? It's not any easier or harder, it's just different. - nickm, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"Besides, I think Mr Shuttleworth could afford to either fight the patent or just buy a license for ubuntu."
About 5 seconds on the ubuntu website would tell you that ubuntu only contains free software, Mp3 is not free, so even if he could he wouldnt want to... - salmonmoose, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5Windows registry is evil, but you rarely if ever need to touch it. I've never managed to install linux without having to edit some config file or other. I'd guess I've spent about as much time editing config files in linux as I have the registry in Windows, but I actually use Windows, I only install linux once every 6 months or so to see if it's desktop ready yet.
- CharlesDingus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Did someone just claim that modifying registry keys is as easy as editing a text file? Wow.
I guess once you know the procedure, everything is easy. But if you are a 'regular' computer user the procedure to use regedit is going to seem pretty obscure and complicated compared to flat files. I think even the most novice user has at least written a word document or email in an editor window, so /etc/sysctl.conf is a logical extension of a familiar task.
It's funny how apropos this is to the article. Text files are meant to be read and edited by humans. The registry was intended to be modified by programs.
HKEY_CURRENT_USERSystemCurrentControlSetServicesAdaptecfoo
Easy or needlessly complicated for the uninitiated user? I think I read somewhere that anything over three levels deep in a hierarchy is indicative of a poor organizational structure, at least in terms of user interfaces. If I didn't know *exactly* what I was looking for, the registry would be impossible to wrap my head around.
- Tobey, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14Do what now?
- t3hX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I like it, it's fairly unbiased.
- NeoKamek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Direct link: http://linux-blog.org/index.php?/archives/128-Why-Ubuntu-isnt-for-New-Linux-Users.html
- XxN3RDC0R3xX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6This is really cool :)
Not from a Linux basher or fanboy, just a neutral guy giving a review from the perspective of the average computer user.. I like it. - STDOUBT, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5ubuntu -it's what's for dinner
- TheCheeks, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5ive used windows since day 1 on a computer. im posting right now from Ubuntu. this is the 4th time ive reinstalled linux, it seems i cant keep it off my comp. sure it takes time to learn a few things but its nice. love the fact that software is mostly open source, i dont need to worry about legalities, many games are free!
- kafka47, on 10/12/2007, -9/+9What he says is true, but the article can be aptly summarized as follows :
"Ubuntu isn't ready for windows users because you *have* to use command line."- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Some people would consider that statement not only to be flamebait, but false, not to mention some people actually /like/ to use the command line. I'm not going to knock out all of the reasons why it's flamebait (because there are too many to list here), but anything you absolutely /need/ to do with the command line can be accomplished via GUI interfaces (however, many people writing how-tos are so entrenched in command-line business they don't consider any other way around it), and furthermore on Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows, using the command line gives you a more powerful (and some would say concise) way of using the machine.
- barbobot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I have to use the command line in windows all the time... ipconfig, ping, and other utilities, i actually hate using a gui for most administrative tasks because its too slow. diffrent strokes for different folks though
- kafka47, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I'm just quoting the article, has nothing to do with what I think about the commandline, Ubuntu or Windows.
- barbobot, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3You brought it up, so you must have wanted to discuss it.
- Deusiah, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4When I moved to Ubuntu Gnu/Linux at the start of 2005, having used Windows solidly for over 11 years I found the use of the command line archaic as I likend it to a dos promt. Of course it didn't take long for me to discover the true usefulness of it. Now I couldn't imagine using an OS without one. I even use a few CLI based apps now such as Pine and Irssi as I run these from my CLI only server.
Personally I think the logic behind using a CLI is often simpler to a GUI. The only reason people are put off by them is because it's not what they are used to. - pauldonnelly, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1That's basically saying, "It's not ready because it's different." If Windows users want something exactly the same as Windows, then there's no problem, because they've already got that. There's no reason that a Windows user can't learn to use (and even love) the command line as well as anyone else. Especially since it has a very shallow learning curve.
- Kahnza, on 10/12/2007, -9/+7I'd love to switch to linux. I've tried in the past. But its a serious PITA to get basic things to work. Requiring long, cryptic commands on the command line. Hours of looking around and not finding anything of use. I also can't play any games. Like Dungeon Siege 2. And how do you install drivers anyway? If they could make a distro that was easy as windows to use, didn't require to do anything on the command line, and did pretty much everything within the GUI, and allowed you to run any windows software you wanted(well maybe not everything), I think a lot of people would switch. I know I would.
- TheCheeks, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5you want it to run like windows, prob look similar, run windows apps...
after all that, youd just have windows and NOT linux. - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8"Requiring long, cryptic commands on the command line."
Name something that /requires/ a command line, and I'll likely show you a better way to do it that doesn't.
"I also can't play any games"
The distro you got didn't ship with any games? How terrible! Try using a distro that ships with them. Or go out onto this vast technology we call the "internet" and search for "linux games". There are game companies in existance who do nothing but write games for Linux (same for Macs as well).
"Like Dungeon Siege 2."
There's WINE for Windows compatibility, but I agree with you, it's a PITA to install and use. So I recommend not even trying. Sure, if that's a dealbreaker for you, then Windows is the right OS for you. However, giving up Viruses and Spyware alone were priorities numero uno and dos for me.
"And how do you install drivers anyway?"
You shouldn't need to; pretty much all modern Linux distros ship with "fat kernels" with every driver for pretty much any commonly used computer peripherial compiled into it, at least as modular support. Plug-and-Play subsystems also should detect virtually any piece of hardware out there, and some will even configure CUPS printing for you (and Ubuntu has some of the best CUPS support I've ran into, along with Fedora). If there actually is a device out there not supported by your kernel, I'd post about it in one of the forums first, because likely all you will need to do to get support is to use Synaptic to download a package containing the driver.
"If they could make a distro that was easy as windows to use, didn't require to do anything on the command line, and did pretty much everything within the GUI, and allowed you to run any windows software you wanted(well maybe not everything), I think a lot of people would switch. I know I would."
And for the most part, that is what Ubuntu is designed to do. They're not perfect yet, but every new release gets them another step closer. Once again, there will be people who will always whine about it, for little reasons or another, but Ubuntu is at a level now where it can do pretty much everything a modern operating system can do, even if it is a bit more painful. And because one of the major goals behind Ubuntu was to reduce the amount of pain of using some of the alternatives, it's actually becoming much more user friendly.
[And it should be noted that if this reader would have taken the time to ask ANYONE how to do anything listed, he would have quickly found it was much less painful. Social Interaction is usually a /good/ thing whenever you don't know what you're doing.] - Kahnza, on 10/12/2007, -11/+6So for linux to be linux, we all have to be forced to use the command line? At the rate linux is developing it won't be useable for regular users for at least another decade. Its all about making things easy to use and figure out. And not having to do anything different to install apps. Just double click the exe and complete the install. Run the application and it runs like it should. Regardless of wether its a windows or linux app. Compatability is key.
- saskboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3geminitojanus You're right that asking questions saves time, but some people find the mere act of asking - painful -.
Worse, you need to know where to ask for help since the Internet is a big place. You can end up asking in a spot that takes days to get a response, if any, and there are better spots with nearly live chats going on.
- TheCheeks, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5you want it to run like windows, prob look similar, run windows apps...
- Daz_Genetic, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8I've tried Linux quite a few times. Always enjoyed playing around with it, but every time I've had a hurdle. Namely Dual Screen support using my ATI 9600PRO. I've never managed to get it working. Came close a few times, but never succeeded.
It's always came down to me having to edit config files by hand. And when I download ATI's Linux drivers, I have to double check if I'm getting the right ones for my distro, and then I have to jump through hoops in command line just to get the installer to launch. Linux is a fantastic OS. The underlying kernel is rock solid, but the drivers, application installation, and configuration procedures are so convoluted, it's never gonna replace Windows for me. That is unless someone comes out with a better way of managing these things.
I'm not an idiot, If I need to learn command line stuff, I can. But in this day and age, both XP and OSX have proven that an Operating System can be powerful and easy to use, with little to no command line. Linux cannot compete with that yet.- barbobot, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Linux isnt trying to be windows or osx.
- Monoboy, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5Of course Linux isn't Windows or OS X. I think the point that the main thread was trying to make was that for Linux to reach the masses (for example: Mom and Dad, the average person who uses a computer but knows very little how it actually work) it needs to be more user friendly.
What I'd like to be able to do is upgrade to Firefox 1.5 on Ubuntu without having to look up a tutorial on how to do it. I'd like to be able to enable DMA on my CD ROM drive without opening a configuration file in a text editor. I'd like to open up a WMV file without having MPlayer freeze up on me or have Xine instantly close every time I open it.
I'm not saying that Windows and Mac OS X don't have their fair share of problems, but until Linux has more of a point and click appeal (and I'm not saying do away with being able to configure the system by opening up the configuration files in text editors, going to the line you want, and changing the text there yourself) I don't think the everyday computer user will feel very confident in using it. - Wireddd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Yeah its fairly common knowledge in the linux community that ATI's linux drivers are crap. As far as dual displays go, you just have to edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf a little (there are plenty of good how-tos for this all over the internet. And if you get stuck get on irc and find the help channel for your distro and they will probably be able to figure out where you went wrong.
- Daz_Genetic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Thanks for the positive feedback. I figured I'd immediately get modded down for saying anything negative about Linux.
The thing is, I'm happy with the way my machine works. I'm very productive within Windows. But that doesn't stop me from seeing the great potential in Linux. In fact, In no way am I suggesting that Linux should be more Windows or OSX like. In fact I feel the opposite. I would prefer to see experimental alternate layouts for my OS. This is where Open Source communities are able to shine where corporations cannot. Microsoft and Apple have to stick with what works, or they loose a lot of money.
What I'm saying though, is that once I'm in a GUI, I shouldn't have to be pulled out of that experience to install software or configure my system. That simply is bad design. Linux is so close to being amazing, but without some kind of standards in place, it will always seem somewhat "unfinished". - barbobot, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7I guess i fail to see why anyone would want it to have an "Appeal to the masses"
- Agret, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"What I'm saying though, is that once I'm in a GUI, I shouldn't have to be pulled out of that experience to install software or configure my system."
You don't have to switch to a command line window (CTRL+ALT+F1, F2, etc.) you can just use xterm - bayonetblaha, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I want Linux to appeal to the masses so my mom doesn't think she has to go buy a new computer every 3 years. She could still be using the one she bought 4 computers ago if Ubuntu were just a little bit easier.
Maybe some people enjoy keeping the linux community 'elite', but i'd like to see a world where everything is done open-source. If the relatively small Linux community has set me up with more capability than I ever had under windows, I don't see why software corporations even exist.
- generalleoff, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I use Ubuntu myself and it's definitely just as easy to fix the few issues it has and get everything working like he says. The only thing that's ever a problem is sound. It's not an Ubuntu problem though as it's always the same old crap in every distro I have tried. It's not even really a problem with getting sound to work. It's getting sound to work right. Even then it's not that it's hard to do it's just that it's annoying
Figuring out how to configure the mixer is basically what I'm talking about. Configuring it to not have static, figure out what sliders work for yer hardware and what they do, getting the line-in to work and allow recording, ability to record whatever yer computer plays (wave) to a file, how not to hear yourself on yer speakers when using yer mic, and not blowing out yer ear drums with feedback if you have a headset. It's basically a lot of guess work and trial and error and it's damn annoying. - deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I hope he stumbles onto the "Take screenshot" app soon. It's kind of silly to take photos of your monitor to show off software.
- nickm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Isn't it mapped to the Prt Scr button by default in ubuntu?
it is for me 5.04 onwards and i'm in 6.06 now, he might have been using XGL, i had to re-map it after setting that up but i doubt he is. - chicken101, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2All he has to do is press "print screen" on his keyboard.
- Agret, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1http://easylinux.wordpress.com/files/2006/04/dsc00318.jpg
lol n00b, he even used a camera to take his windows "screenshots", I don't think this guy is qualified to use any OS but his blog does have some good points - M4v3R, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2That's a remote desktop app connected to his windows box, not the windows box itself...
- dannytuppeny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Read the comments on the blog :P
- nickm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Isn't it mapped to the Prt Scr button by default in ubuntu?
- Murdats, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3ive found with my friend who is pretty proficient at linux and uses the command line for everything (im pretty much a linux noob). linux seems to make advanced tasks easier, but simple tasks harder (once again talking mainly about command line). windows seems fairly simple tasks are easy and advanced tasks are hard
my conclusion, windows is really good for noobs (and games :) ) and in linux no matter what you are doing everything is about the same amount of effort (once again talking about command line, nothign about gui and this is not always exactly and strictly the case. also this is just from what i have observed)- Agret, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Simple tasks are made easier with the CLI, you can automate a lot of the stuff.
- optikburn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Ubuntu went on top because of Canonical's market strategy.. FREE CDs.. I've tried the Top 10 Linux in Distrowatch's list.. and IMHO, Ubuntu is sleek and stable in my machines.. very good distro.. but when it comes to ease of use specially for switchers from Windows, I suggest MEPIS or PCLinuxOS.. it is nice to have blogs popping out about Linux.. at least the switchers-to-be can have a vast array of information before switching to Linux..
- 6say6ten6, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Alright as far as an OS for the masses... I work with people all day long on getting their cable internet up and running. Trust me 80% of the tards i talk to should not even have a computer.... much less linux. I have talked to people that have just gotten their first computer and they expect the damn thing to read their minds and never malfunction. imagine if those same tards got a hold of a linux install...
- modpancake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Dugg *ONLY* for the "screenshots" - ROFL.
- villenummi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5People who say how unuseable Linux is have learning disabilities.
Don't compare Windows to Linux like that. Linux is not the same thing. Windows is for ***** who can't learn how to handle computers. They are for totally different people.- chicken101, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4You should calm down a bit- some people that were born before the computer age and those who don't use them everyday are not "*****". They just don't have a passion for computers; therefore, they aren't going to want to manually edit their repositories or use the terminal for anything.
They are for totally different people- people who enjoy learning how computers work, and those who don't. - villenummi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0***** is just a funny word.
- chicken101, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4You should calm down a bit- some people that were born before the computer age and those who don't use them everyday are not "*****". They just don't have a passion for computers; therefore, they aren't going to want to manually edit their repositories or use the terminal for anything.
- splurb, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4"People who say how unuseable Linux is have learning disabilities."
As opposed to elitist pseudo intellectual asshats who can't construct a simple sentence.- Agret, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3"As opposed to elitist pseudo intellectual asshats who can't construct a simple sentence."
As opposed to people who can't find the reply button on digg.
- Agret, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3"As opposed to elitist pseudo intellectual asshats who can't construct a simple sentence."
- MrGeneric, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Linux is FOSS, if you don't like part of it STFU and fix it! If everyone did that it would be amazing, sadly it is left to a useful and dedicated minority to actually keep Linux evolving. If you paid for a product then you have the right to whinge.
One point I need to make is this, Linux was made by some of the worlds smartest people and sometimes they don't realize how dumb some people can be, but as time progresses Linux is rapidly becoming more inclusive of the needs of the majority of users. Look at almost any technology and you will see the same phenomena. - chicken101, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4"It’s asking for my password. This is a little confusing, as I only logged in a few seconds ago. Why do I need to re-enter my password? Anyway, after entering my password..."
This guy just doesn't get it does he?- dannytuppeny, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I do get it (now), but I'm evaluating Ubuntu as a Windows user. I'm posting what a Windows user might be thinking, because that's who my blog is aimed to help. I understand it now (how sudo works etc.), and it *is* correct, but if I hadn't made the remark (and since, mentioned in a comment what I now know), a Windows user would be none the wiser.
- addisonj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Hmm very interesting article, this guy is obviously not any sort of computer pro in windows or linux and just has his computer to do what he wants without worrying about it. I am sure most of us have met someone like it before, as when there is a problem with their computer we tend to get the call :P.
anyways, my point being, is linux ready for this type of user? in all actuality, none of this editing is that "hard" by any means. A simple quickstart guide with a link on how to get Restricted formats working would be sufficent for most people, i mean it is only one command. Some of the biggest problems I see would be things such as drivers and printers, especially video drivers and the not always easy intsalls there *cough* ATI *cough*. Of course though, Linux in the end is far superior for some things, apt-get is amazing, anything i want i can install with a single command, i have XGL/compiz which not only looks beautiful but is functional too (my new strat for multitasking by moving just a little bit to read IM's) and it has more customizability and stability that windows by far. Hopefully with time and input from users like this, Ubuntu and other distros can become workable solutions- dannytuppeny, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"this guy is obviously not any sort of computer pro in windows or linux"
Heh, cheers!
I'm a (Web &) Software developer! Mostly Windows now, but Linux at a time. The whole blog is written as if from a windows user with no linux experience, because that's the target audience. I'm completely familiar (and confortable) with the Linux command line, but I'm avoiding it because Windows users wouldn't want to use it! - kermy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1"I'm avoiding it because Windows users wouldn't want to use it!"
I'm not sure why everyone makes this assumption. The terminal box is an app like any other. You click on its icon, it opens and then you use it to perform a task. People are really hung up on the whole "GUI vs CLI" thing and I think they are looking at it the wrong way. Maybe Linux distros should come with graphical interactive tutorials on common terminal commands.
I migrated from Windows to Ubuntu some months ago, but then again I loved writing batch files and vb scripts to automate processes and make tasks more efficient. So getting into Linux has been like heaven for me. - dannytuppeny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's not a wrong assumption - most windows useres would rather not use the command line. eg. there's a difference in the GUI and the command line interface to WinZip. How many users that happily use Winzip would be comfortable using it via the command line? Not many!
- dannytuppeny, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"this guy is obviously not any sort of computer pro in windows or linux"
- Giever, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Hey, he got the Theme from The A-Team working!
- DigDuality, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2i love the cries of people.
OMG my drivers don't work, omg my codecs aren't pre-installed.
Get real. A bunch of developers bust their ass to give you a free product with no legal threat to you, the least you could do is install you're own codecs. It's not rocket science. Especially when you consider Easy Ubuntu or Automatix.
Technically i'm a linux noob, and i'm on Ubuntu Dapper Beta, have been on Ubuntu since Dapper Flight 1. Not once have i been ABLE to use Easy Ubuntu or Automatix and i got everything working. If i can, you can. - cuppyCake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This digg link should point to the actual article, not a blog entry that talks about and links to the article.
- nzl10, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2i'm not a programmer.
why is it so difficult to integrate tasks like mounting a USB stick (so i can write files to it) into a configuration or properties menue in Linux (instead of typing commands in the CLI that i have to look up first and then remember or store somewhere because i don't use them often)?
i can understand that it's necessary to use administrator password access control for this, but why is there no context menue option to enable writing to a USB drive? it recognises it when i insert it and puts a nice icon on the esktop.... so why do i have to jump hoops to use it?
just one of the things that stops me from promoting Linux to friends and family.- idonthack, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3RTFA, man. He said a window opened showing his USB drive's contents right away after plugging it in, and he could read from it, write to it, etc.
- Euan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Bleh... I am so sick of Linux conversion articles. Like Linux? Use it... Dont peddle your warez on bloody sites! Bah!
- webhead74, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I keep seeing all these people bitch & moan about the command line - why?!? Can we no longer type? Have we become this lazy (even stupid)?
Fear of the command line reminds me of the overall fear so many people have of their systems in general. OH MY GOD SOME BOX JUST POPPED UP ASKING ME TO CLICK OK!!! If you've dealt with average users at all, you know what I mean. It's totally unfounded & if people would simply use a little common sense there would be no reason for such fear (and ignorance).
People complain about having to edit config files and such under Linux. In my experience, which goes back to RedHat 4.x, this is totally overblown. It used to be a lot worse, granted (but on the other side of the coin, have any of you ever had to get an NT4 box up?)... but hell, except on the rare occasion when I was using some really odd piece of hardware - or some hardware designed to only work under windows (like a winmodem), I personally have never spent "days" trying to get something to work. In fact, I don't think I ever spend more time setting up a Linux box than I do setting up a Windows box. Under Windows, you end up wasting time tweaking hardware settings (Win2k almost always defaulted to using PIO on IDE controllers - WTF?), services, page file, etc. to get a solid box... installing windows updates, drivers, etc. Linux is really no more time consuming or different. The only difference being that Windows gives you virtually no way to do anything via the command line. Personally, by the time I click "next" umpteen times & jump through all those hoops it would have been a lot easier for me just to type "tar -zxvf foo.tar.gz && ./configure && make && make install", walk away and have a smoke.
If you prefer to use a GUI, that's your choice... but don't be afraid of the command line. It's your friend. Really, it loves you :)
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