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$100 laptop' nonprofit now teamed with Microsoft - AP

ap.google.com — BOSTON (AP) — The One Laptop Per Child project is about to find out whether Microsoft Corp., a rival the nonprofit group once derided, is the solution to its problems in spreading inexpensive portable computers to schoolchildren.

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  • VB9aHi, on 05/16/2008, -29/+4"a $100 Dollar Laptop"???
  • sfacets, on 05/16/2008, -31/+88Sellouts.
    • tedhead2k, on 05/16/2008, -24/+27Yeah, you're right, providing laptops to children in third world countries just isn't worth getting the financial help of a big corporation. Who cares about the kids, they should be more worried about morons calling them "sellouts"!
      • jorisb, on 05/16/2008, -8/+15Not once in that whole article does it say Microsoft is lending them financial help.
        Microsoft wants kids to get "hooked" on windows as early as possible. Linux is the perfect match for a program like this and it is a damn shame they are selling out like this.

        FTA "OLPC changed its mission outright, and in the most ill-conceived way imaginable," Ivan Krstic, a former security developer for the laptop group, recently wrote in an e-mail
      • halleyscomet, on 05/16/2008, -1/+12Actually, Microsoft is only providing a $3.00 per install license, not additional financial aid.
        • MWeather, on 05/16/2008, -8/+2So OLPC saves $3 and in return it renders $20+ of it's hardware useless?
        • rohan1234, on 05/16/2008, -1/+4No, they're not saving $3. Microsoft is selling Windows for $3, so they're spending $3 more.
        • djgreedo, on 05/17/2008, -2/+2This $3 licence probably also provides Microsoft support for the OS. $3 is a bargain.

          It also allows these children to gain experience using the most popular OS in the world, an OS that most workplaces use.
          Free would obviously be better, which is an advantage of Linux, but these kids should have access to something useful, not a hobby OS that a fraction of a percent of people actually use.
          It will be interesting to see how well Windows runs on these laptops, though presumably Microsoft will be working with the manufacturer to ensure that the drivers are all up to speed.
      • trumpcard, on 05/16/2008, -5/+6Kids are not geeks like most of you ***** diggers.Its good to see poor kids getting to use a system with easy os like windows xp.Business motives thats another issue for the governments who made the deal with $100 foundation to deal with.
        • mossblaser, on 05/16/2008, -1/+11) You are biased, windows is not easy compared to windows, linux may not be easy compared to windows either for that matter

          2) The PCs came with a customized OS and interface that abstracted everything a long way from whatever OS was running on it. That interface is simply piss easy to use.

          3) The issue is not all about the OS its about the whole philosophy behind it - windows is closed and created by a company known for their heartless and brutal tactics - linux is an open system designed, maintained and created by people who care about how good their software is, not about pushing up profits.
    • dafragsta, on 05/16/2008, -4/+6So tell me. What did they get for selling out?
      • Coffeedemon, on 05/16/2008, -6/+12maybe a better chance that they'll meet their goal of being able to provide laptops to kids for a low price?
        • MWeather, on 05/16/2008, -6/+7How does including an OS that has less functionality and less free software available accomplish that?
        • freedomknight, on 05/16/2008, -4/+5low price ?
          with windows +$3
          with sugar os +$0
        • dafragsta, on 05/16/2008, -1/+2Not that the above statement is true, but how is that different from any other negotiations with hardware vendors and parts vendors?
        • MWeather, on 05/16/2008, -0/+2"how is that different from any other negotiations with hardware vendors and parts vendors?"

          There aren't any parts vendors who give their hardware away for free. If there were, negotiating with one who is going to charge you would be kind of stupid.
    • known, on 05/16/2008, -8/+25Open Source Software promotes Competition.
      Closed Source Software promotes Collusion.
      • djgreedo, on 05/17/2008, -1/+0This is nonsense. Competition in industry is largely promoted by financial reward, which requires that each alternative has its benefits and features (to encourage sales). Do you see Microsoft colluding with any other OS manufacturer? Perhaps by "collusion" you meant monopoly / anti-competitve practics, which Microsoft have certainly been guilty of at times. Of course, if there was another OS that was anywhere near as good as the one I'm using (Windows Vista), it's not been marketed very well.

        What difference does it make to a poor child if their software is open source or not? Closed source = quality. It's rare that any free alternative software is as good as the stuff you pay for. I use OpenOffice, and have used Word for years - OpenOffice is nowhere near as good as Word, though for home use it's acceptable given it's free.

        Sure, there is free software that does its job very well, but as far as complicated software goes, the results of the time and money spent on them are obvious - except to closed-minded fanboys, of course.
    • ha1f, on 05/16/2008, -12/+3You're an idiot.
    • Wakuko, on 05/16/2008, -10/+11Everything M$ touches turns into *****, King Midas of tech.
      • djgreedo, on 05/17/2008, -4/+0Care to elaborate?

        I use MS Windows Vista on two PCs at home and it works flawlessly and efficienty, and is a delight to use (a media centre PC and a general use laptop). It's also compatible with every bit of software and hardware I ever need to use.

        I have a Microsoft Zune MP3 player, which is absolutely amazing, and better than any MP3 player I have ever used or seen (including iPods).

        I use MS Office software at work and it has never failed me (except for that stupid paperclip that I can't disable due to work security settings).

        I don't personally have or want an XBox, but friends who have them love them, and they appear to be very successful.

        So, what exactly are you talking about? Or is your comment some lame attempt at gaining 'cred' from other Linux/Mac fanboys who like to bash Microsoft for no real reason, and who generally are uninformed in matters relating to tech?
        • Optimaximal, on 05/17/2008, -0/+2You were doing so well until you said the Zune was amazing...
    • shinythingy, on 05/16/2008, -11/+11So ***** what. This has the potential to sell more laptops meaning more kids will get them. That is what is important here not ***** Linux or Opensource *****.
    • slayerab, on 05/16/2008, -3/+2If you can't beat em join em
    • danz32, on 05/17/2008, -0/+1Yep! Sellouts to capitalism and our lovely friend demand:

      FTA: Nicholas Negropont "acknowledged that having Windows as an option could reassure education ministers who have hesitated to buy XOs with its new interface, called Sugar. Negroponte had hoped to sell several million laptops by now; instead he has gotten about 600,000 orders."
  • supermanred, on 05/16/2008, -19/+12How the hell are they going to get Windows onto it?

    A new comment system WTF? Cool! I like the icons!
    • HouseCentipede, on 05/16/2008, -2/+13The laptop will come with a $7 memory card to hold it. That with the $3 cost of a Windows license will make the (not $100) laptop cost $10 more. Great to see that all the fat the engineers trimmed to cut costs being spent on this.
      • freedomknight, on 05/16/2008, -3/+3Well windows is not healthy fat.
      • Trixrox, on 05/16/2008, -7/+2The 100 dollar laptop isn't even 100 dollars, it never was...
      • supermanred, on 05/16/2008, -2/+2$3 for the Windows license? Im still wondering how Windows will work on this hardware?
    • colonelbuckshot, on 05/16/2008, -1/+3Bigger question: How are they going to put their "porn filters" on it?

      http://africa.reuters.com/wire/news/usnL19821905.h ...
  • mentol, on 05/16/2008, -15/+5If you can't make a $100 laptop, find someone to pay for the extra, right ?
  • thorseth, on 05/16/2008, -12/+24Nooooooooo!
  • plizard, on 05/16/2008, -26/+90now the laptops will cost $1500 and come with vista
    • bigmac7669, on 05/16/2008, -6/+25....and won't be compatible with anything
    • freedomknight, on 05/16/2008, -11/+4I installed Vista on OLPC, and it works great. No problems.
      If something doesn't work then its driver problem.
    • sarora529, on 05/16/2008, -7/+10The $1500 price tag sounds similar to Apple not Windows. Let the digging down by the fan boys begin.
      • soopafly, on 05/16/2008, -2/+6yes.. because ONLY Apple computers cost $1500 :-/
        • Dipsett, on 05/16/2008, -2/+1No, but at least you're not stuck with performance that would cost ya 500.
    • Modestexcuse, on 05/16/2008, -1/+8To be fair, they could cost as little as $1200, depending on which of the 4 versions of Vista you choose.
  • burnstyle, on 05/16/2008, -17/+31"our new $100 systems will come with windows XP installed...
    these premium systems will be called 'The $200 Laptop' "
    • drevin, on 05/16/2008, -3/+10They already cost $200
      • smotpoker, on 05/16/2008, -2/+7Not in 3rd world countries. When you buy one from U.S. or Canada they use the extra $100 to send one to a 3rd world kid
    • BigW, on 05/16/2008, -3/+9I thought XP was due to be retired next year. What are they going to put on these laptops then? There's no way in hell a $100 ($ 200) laptop will be able to run Vista.
      • NJank, on 05/16/2008, -3/+3this is just a way for MS to clear their XP inventory. Kind of like Sears dumping all of last year's unsold cookware to Dollar Tree. All those XP bits are just taking up too much inventory space.
        • Murdats, on 05/16/2008, -0/+2clear inventory? all they need to do is hit format on the xp data to clear inventory.
        • MWeather, on 05/16/2008, -1/+3You can't format pressed CDs.
        • freedomknight, on 05/16/2008, -0/+4You can bake them.
  • kr9681, on 05/16/2008, -21/+1i highly doubt anything productive will be produced from a 100 computer
    • MWeather, on 05/16/2008, -0/+2Many productive things have been produced by laptops with worse specs. You do remember the 90's right?
  • mazzmn, on 05/16/2008, -9/+16Bad title, they never made the $100 price point...but they did make $200 I believe. No way these things run Vista
    • aladrin, on 05/16/2008, -3/+5That's the point. It was originally hyped as the '$100 laptop', missed that price point, and -then- entered into talks with Microsoft. After that, the hardware mysteriously got upgraded further with no explanation. Now it's going to run XP, as was predicted by the conspiracy theorists after the hardware upgrade.

      Calling it the '$100 laptop' is a reference to the original goal which was left behind LONG ago.
      • smotpoker, on 05/16/2008, -0/+3It is just easier than saying "$115 laptop" and close enough. Similar to saying something costs $20 instead of $19.95. It is also called that because that is how it became famous so the name just stuck

        $200 is just the price in modern countries, in third world countries they're cheaper. Each one we buy purchases one for an impoverished kid
      • hajamieli, on 05/16/2008, -0/+2It didn't really miss the price point value-wise. The value of the USD just plummeted since the $100 target price.
        • djgreedo, on 05/17/2008, -1/+0Don't forget that the price is going to be determined by demand. If they end up shipping a lot of these (likely now that Windows is going to be on them), the cost of components goes down due to economies of scale. This was a factor in the $100 laptop goal of the OLPC project all along.
  • Andiz, on 05/16/2008, -12/+67And that was the end of the OLPC project.....
    • Cthalupa, on 05/16/2008, -7/+9Wrong. This will likely result in quite a few more sales being made.

      4 or 5 big contracts with countries were lost because the XOs did not offer Windows.
      • smotpoker, on 05/16/2008, -2/+3This is how/why this merger seems necessary now. The MS/Intel version cost $200-300 (I think) which was not affordable enough but their reps convinced too many people that windows was necessary so they were hesitant with the OLPCs. This was MS's goal with all along - pretending cooperate with OLPC while undermining them behind their back to take a chunk of their sales. Now they are successful but getting windows sold through both the Intel version *and* OLPC (if requested)
      • Schmich, on 05/16/2008, -0/+4It's the end of one of the core thoughts behind the 100 dollar laptop.
      • craigp, on 05/16/2008, -0/+4...and isn't that the most worrying/scary/saddest thing about this whole sorry mess? The fact that it wasn't adopted because IT workers in the civil service departments in the countries that refused Linux couldn't see past their MSCEs.

        Ivan Krstić (recently resigned from the OLPC project) speaks about this: http://radian.org/notebook/sic-transit-gloria-lapt ... And he's right. It isn't about Windows or Linux. It's about bring a platform of learning to as many kids as possible. This, I agree with.

        What is so sad is that there are so many so-called 'IT Professionals' who couldn't think outside their M$-coloured box to understand that there could be an alternative, and it's this that has killed the chance of Linux on the OLPC. Undoubtedly, Linux is the better technical and philosophical alternative for OLPC, but it has been beaten down by the M$ hegemony.

        If the kids' first experience with a computer ends up being a seven-year-old closed-source virus-ridden OS that is trying to be phased out and not supported by it's vendor, then I feel the OLPC has (at least in part) failed in it's goals of education.
  • Phocion55, on 05/16/2008, -9/+29Wasn't the goal of the project to aim for a $100 price-point as soon as possible?

    And now, they're charging $20 EXTRA for a system with admittedly less specialized features and a 7 year old OS that MS is trying to phase out? You guys are going in the complete WRONG direction with this.

    No mesh networking? No customized interactive educational software? Add some anti-virus software to it and get, what, a whopping 15 minutes of battery life?

    What's even more revolting is that MS his charging $3 for an XP license - turning a profit from a non-profit project.

    Seriously, XP is a great OS but is just a horrible fit for the original goals set for the OLPC.
    • aladrin, on 05/16/2008, -5/+9In Microsoft's defense for the $3 charge, it probably costs them more than that for all the paperwork to allow OLPC to put it on the laptop.

      I don't forgive OLPC at all for this, though.
      • MWeather, on 05/16/2008, -2/+3Not really. They already sold XP for $3 to non-profits and the third world.
    • ha1f, on 05/16/2008, -3/+7Do you think that non-profits don't clean up on the financial end? Using XP questionable, but calling out Microsoft for $3 dollar charges (probably at a loss) is ridiculous. Believe it or not, the purpose of non-profit organizations is to turn a profit, and Microsoft if probably losing money here.
      • Phocion55, on 05/16/2008, -2/+4Ah yes, good points to both of you.

        Still thought, with Microsoft's power and resources, I was hoping that they would have influenced prices closer to $100...not the opposite.
        • ha1f, on 05/16/2008, -1/+2Of course. We'd all like to see that. But, though the price may go in the wrong direction, Microsoft can use its power and resources to get the notebook out to more people in need. Backing from a company like Microsoft is always going to be a benefit, and even if one thinks Microsoft is in this only for the money, they're still doing a good thing here.
        • munkyxtc, on 05/16/2008, -0/+2After reading the article I got to thinking that maybe MS' influence could help this program reach closer to the $100 level. Sure, the hardware modification required for windows will increase the price $10, but the article clearly states that at this point the OLPC project hoped to ship a few million of the laptops; currently they have only shipped around 600,000 -- the small market is not helping their efforts for bulk orders which results in cheaper prices. Perhaps having software with 90%+ marketshare [I do not wish to debate if you agree with MS business or not, but their share is fact] on your laptop will help adoption, and thus allow for larger orders and in the end lower prices? I'd love to see this happen.
      • rohan1234, on 05/16/2008, -3/+1I doubt Microsoft will be making a loss. It doesn't cost $3 to write Windows to a hard drive.
      • jejones, on 05/16/2008, -2/+1The point isn't to make money off OLPC, but to generate addicts to MS software, or at least to prevent people from getting used to computing without Windows.
  • redrock34, on 05/16/2008, -7/+57Hope those laptops can run antivirus software.
    • ruiacp, on 05/16/2008, -1/+9Most virus spread through unprotected "third world" networks. With lowcost laptops with XP in their schools...
      Mcaffe, Trend Micro and Symantec are very happy with m$, more virus=more profit.
    • freedomknight, on 05/16/2008, -2/+1Its unimaginable if a child powers his laptop using hand crank or any other thing that involves physical activity.
  • esc27, on 05/16/2008, -8/+5OLPC hasn't been having a lot of success lately. If this helps to get more of these laptops into the hands of children who need them, then that is a good thing right?
    • ElAssoWipo, on 05/16/2008, -9/+4Yeah but since Microsoft is involved now, we're going to complain about it.

      Because Microsoft is never perfect but we all have to buy it anyway because all other options are clearly inferior and that's because of Microsoft.
      • khaavren, on 05/16/2008, -1/+4Other options are inferior? WHAT? You ever think for once that people bashing MS this time could actually be for a good reason?
      • MWeather, on 05/16/2008, -3/+3Your sarcasm is actually accurate. If microsoft made their software interoperable, other OSes would be doping quite a bit better. Imagine if Samba didn't have to reverse engineer all those years. What could all that effort have produced instead?

        How popular would Outlook be if all email clients worked great with Exchange? What marketshare would office have if all office suites worked great with Office files. And what innovations would they have created if they didn't have to waste time reverse engineering?

        Microsoft has set computing back decades.
        • ElAssoWipo, on 05/16/2008, -4/+2If microsoft made their software interoperable there wouldn't be a microsoft for everybody to copy.

          Innovations, ***** please.

          A barely working alternative that requires a ***** load of hours to just make it work most of the time is not exactly what I would call innovation.

          Hey, I heard Ubuntu's getting flash soon, only 6 years late too.
        • MWeather, on 05/16/2008, -0/+3Linux is interoperable, and it seems to be growing.

          "A barely working alternative that requires a ***** load of hours to just make it work most of the time is not exactly what I would call innovation."

          Thanks for proving my point. 99% of the problems are lack of interoperability and the reverse engineering.hacks needed to get around it

          "Hey, I heard Ubuntu's getting flash soon, only 6 years late too. "

          Uh, it's ALWAYS had flash. Given your responses, it's obvious you've never used Ubuntu. In fact, I doubt you've ever used ANY Linux.
    • neilschelly, on 05/16/2008, -2/+11I disagree. This was about bringing technology to places in the world that don't have it. They could get it with OLPC reasonably cheaply, which was great. Now, that technology will be hobbled by Microsoft. Ultimately, now we're going to suffocate markets that had the opportunity to grow free from Microsoft into new profit centers for Microsoft.

      This will do more damage than good.
      -N
      • ElAssoWipo, on 05/16/2008, -4/+1Yeah, they tried. It failed.

        The ones with the know-how, the money and the will can make it happen.
      • Sidzilla, on 05/16/2008, -2/+2FTA-"There are now many more countries prepared to look at the XO and collaborative learning and some of the things we stand for."
        The best operating system in the world is no good if people won't try it. Now the countries that wouldn't look at the OLPC will take it seriously. Unless I am mistaken Linux is still an option, so the ones that are anti-Microsoft will still have the option. As far as the technology being "hobbled" by Microsoft, I would say that is prejudice on your part. Microsoft powers most of the world's computers very nicely, thank you.
  • YodaJones, on 05/16/2008, -14/+25Microsoft: Where all good ideas go to die.
    Microsoft = Miami
  • jjpertusch, on 05/16/2008, -7/+30"Versions with Windows will cost $18 to $20 more; $3 of that is for Windows, and the rest covers hardware adjustments, like an additional memory-card slot, needed to make Windows run."

    I say good. SugarOS was an absolute failure. I installed xfce on my XO and its finally barely usable. There were a lot of awesome things they did with Sugar, but right now it's crap. I hope people continue to develop it though.

    Didn't Steve Jobs offer to develop a slimmed down OS X for OLPC but was denied because they wanted a fully open OS? That would have been cool to see.
    • Cthalupa, on 05/16/2008, -6/+6It would be cool to see - except he never offered. In fact, he's never said much at all about the project. Or anything at all, as far as google can turn up.
      • honesttussey, on 05/16/2008, -0/+6Not quite sure you're getting dugg up. It did happen.

        According to a report in the Wall Street Journal, Apple boss Steve Jobs offered to equip each of the machines with a gratis copy of Mac OS X.

        Seymour Papert, a professor emeritus at MIT and one of the project's founders, said the scheme had refused Jobs' offer on the grounds that Mac OS X is a proprietary system.

        Papert told the WSJ: "We declined because it's not open source," adding the $100 laptop creators will only choose an operating system where the source code is open and can be altered.

        Source: http://hardware.silicon.com/desktops/0,39024645,39 ...
        • YodaJones, on 05/16/2008, -0/+3So now they will go with Microsoft? Is that what they consider open source?
      • Cthalupa, on 05/16/2008, -1/+2Yeah, as several people have pointed out, I was wrong. Searching google for "Steve Jobs OLPC" only comes up with a bunch of crap, none of which has to do with the actual OLPC project.
        • iabhi, on 05/16/2008, -0/+1

          Yeah, but searching google for "steve.jobs 100$.laptop" (w/o the quotes) gives a not-so-crappy result.
    • jjpertusch, on 05/16/2008, -0/+8i found it in the XO wiki article:
      http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB11319330514 ...

      "Steve Jobs, Apple Computer Inc.'s chief executive, offered to provide free copies of the company's operating system, OS X, for the machine, according to Seymour Papert, a professor emeritus at MIT who is one of the initiative's founders. "We declined because it's not open source," says Dr. Papert, noting the designers want an operating system that can be tinkered with. An Apple spokesman declined to comment."

      so no official word from apple, just from one of the founders. must not have been that serious of an offer.
  • HouseCentipede, on 05/16/2008, -10/+5This is extremely sad. Apparently their core philosophies weren't that important. What's most disappointing is that if they went this route from the beginning, they would have gotten solid foundation from Apple in the form of OS X...
    • Cthalupa, on 05/16/2008, -1/+3It's unlikely apple would be interested in working with the OLPC project. It really doesn't make much sense for them, as far as business goes, to do it.

      OLPCs go to developing countries, where money is an issue. The people receiving these will likely not have any real chance of buying an Apple product within the foreseeable future, if ever. While the chances are still quite low for these people buying a Microsoft product, the chances are higher they will encounter them. PC architecture laptops are far more inexpensive than Macbooks, which means that they have a somewhat higher chance of purchasing them, and Microsoft is likely to remain (at the very least) the largest entity in the business world.


      There is quite a bit of criticism to lay at the OLPC project's feet. This, however, is not one of them. Their core philosophy is to educate children to give them a chance at a better life. Proficiency with Windows is a far more employable skill than proficiency with Sugar.
      • nickert0n, on 05/16/2008, -0/+2Uh evenif it ran DOS, its a computer for kids. No matter what its good people, these kids arent Vally Girls or Orange County Spoiled *****.

        Anything is better than playing with Dirt and Sticks.
      • HouseCentipede, on 05/16/2008, -0/+2Apparently you missed the news that Steve Jobs offered OS X to the OLPC initially but was turned down because the children couldn't tinker with the source code:

        http://www.engadget.com/2005/11/15/jobs-offered-os ...
  • sandiegodude, on 05/16/2008, -9/+12As much as the naysayers around here want to dog these laptops, I read a review about them a few months back in PC Computing. Before you think "OMG a low dollar laptop, what a piece of ***** that will be!" please do your research. The laptop is for the very poor and/or 3rd world country children. It was previously running a barebones linux suite which had a basic word processor, some educational tools as well a few games (think educational games that can run on a 486 here, but still fun for your average 5 to 8 year old who doesn't have a shiny Xbox 360 sitting at home) These laptops bring a fun and educational tool to children for less money than you spend in gas in a couple weeks (or a couple days if you drive a Hummer).

    Adding XP to the machine in a dual boot configuration is great, because it will open up the functionality of the laptops to windows based software, which we all know still dominates the market. As evil as Micro$oft is to customers and their industry, one thing they've always been great about is non-profit work. Hell, look at Bill Gates' Inoculate the World program, which does amazing work around the world in poor, undeveloped countries.
    • MWeather, on 05/16/2008, -2/+4"Adding XP to the machine in a dual boot configuration is great, because it will open up the functionality of the laptops to windows based software, which we all know still dominates the market."

      All we need to do now is to get all those market dominating software companies to donate their products for free, because these kids can't afford them.
  • tenbosch, on 05/16/2008, -13/+6This is great news. Finally, a viable alternative for the third world. You're all haters...
  • BacIkarma, on 05/16/2008, -2/+6They have made so much money by over pricing their software in the last few years that of course they can do this without loosing money. Hell XP is supposed to be on it's way out then MS brings it back and it will most likely be the OS powering all of these low end pc's because it does not want to give the market over to Linux which I think is still unavoidable given the fact that MS is placing restrictions on what it's OS will and will not do.
  • ElbertF, on 05/16/2008, -3/+13Very disappointing, the laptops originally came with Python software that the kids could hack themselves, learn from the source code etc., this is crap. The software was also very graphical and easy to understand, now they have to learn English first?
    • Cthalupa, on 05/16/2008, -0/+2The Sugar option will still be available. For now, they are going to have two separate laptops. One variant with Sugar, one variant with Windows. They lost multiple large contracts to countries because they could not provide Windows on the machines. This will now give them a chance to reach these places.

      Eventually, they want to dual boot both Sugar and Windows.
  • frostbyt, on 05/16/2008, -4/+15Now 15 children have to huddle around 1 laptop.

    Steve Ballmer: What's the big deal?
  • stutt9art, on 05/16/2008, -0/+3At the time this is widely available on the market is the time we can buy $200 EEE PC. Let's wait for the low price to come.
  • robinohio1, on 05/16/2008, -8/+8Baclkarma has good points. I will add how exactly is putting a closed source OS on a laptop computer supposed to be educational? One of the facets of this project is so students can learn how to program and learn how computers work. I can assure you, that ain't happening with a closed source OS. On a side note, since the outsourcing of America began, the number of programmers and software engineers is falling fast. Planned by chance?
    • Cthalupa, on 05/16/2008, -3/+11You can't learn to program and learn how computers work on a closed source OS? What in the world are you talking about? You can still program Python, C (And it's variants), Ruby, etc, on a closed source OS. You can still learn how computers work on a closed source OS. The fundamental principles are the same, whether or not the OS source code is available.

      The point of the OLPC project is to give these kids in impoverished nations a chance for a better life. If you don't believe that the ability to use the Windows OS is a skill that will help them in that pursuit, it's because you've placed yourself into a neat box of denial, simply because of your hatred for Microsoft.

      No matter whether or not the dislike for MS is deserved, Windows is on top right now, and if we want these kids to be able to get out of the fields, and into careers, them being able to use Windows isn't a bad thing, and I find it atrocious that there seems to be a consensus of "Who cares about whether or not the program is meeting it's intended purpose, let's bash them because they're using Windows, and Windows sucks!"
      • climatewarrior, on 05/16/2008, -0/+2I believe that the ability to use the current predominant OS is a good skill to learn. But I think that anyone who knows how to use Linux would easily be able to use Windows. And besides they are installing Windows XP which is a version of Windows that Microsoft will stop supporting in a few years. Therefore I think that our priorities should be empowering the users and giving them as much freedom as we can. Why should we make these nations "addicted" to our proprietary systems instead of giving them tools on which they can later build upon and create their own new technologies? Why should we make them dependent upon a system and a company who is known to work against the interests of its users? e.g. DRM

        Lets give these nations technological independence and freedom. There is nothing better than free competition to foster creativity and growth. And as we know Microsoft is not very fond of competition. They have been taken into court for their monopolistic practices.
    • Dalrek, on 05/16/2008, -1/+2*On your side note* Or after the bubble burst of the 90s, it wasn't as exciting to be a CS major so people stopped declaring it as their major? And it has become steady since 2005. It was flat in 2006, and interest in 2007 of declared CS majors was up over 2006.

      http://www.cra.org/CRN/articles/may05/vegso This graph shows the decline after the burst, and http://www.cra.org/wp/index.php?p=139 shows how it's leveled off.
      • robinohio1, on 05/16/2008, -0/+1Who cares? I am talking about people who are developing code now and most of them are in India or China. People getting CS degrees are not interested in programming. They typically end up in project management and then onto management while earning their MBA. They do not want to be outsourced like the people who work for them and WANT to do technical work.

        I have worked for IT Directors and managers who have an MBA and ZERO technical experience and NO CS degrees or technical degrees of any kind.

        What does a CS degree have to with outsourcing?
    • robinohio1, on 05/19/2008, -0/+1Look at this article as well. Looks like others agree with me and Baclkarma.

      http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS2751728126.html

      On a side note, I am getting REAL tired of other diggers coming on here and challenging every god damn thing I say. Do you ***** have it out for me or something? I am really getting sick of it. It would take 10 posts to cover all of the dumbass-type posts just for this article alone.

      I am not going anywhere. I will continue to post my comments and if you do not like them, fine. But unless you want to win the Darwin award of the day, challenge my posts on FACTS and objective opinions derived from FACTS.

      People need to pull their head out of their ass, like Cthalupa with his pearl of wisdom above.
  • DeFex, on 05/16/2008, -4/+16Oh well thats the end of that then.
  • buffyangel108, on 05/16/2008, -2/+5Could be a nice little earner if Bill buys the Windows licences through the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation ;)

    (PS. I know the Foundation does great work... forgive the inner cynic in me here!)
  • Cthalupa, on 05/16/2008, -13/+31A lot of these comments are very ignorant.

    First off, the OLPC project has lost multiple contracts to various countries because they couldn't provide Windows. This will open those opportunities back up. These means more laptops to more kids. How you can say that this is a bad thing is beyond me

    Second, the SugarOS laptops will still be available, and will not be going away anytime soon. Eventually, they might be phased out when the dual boot solution is available, but definitely not until at least that point.

    Third, the entire point of the OLPC project is to help the kids. Even if you hate Microsoft, will you deny the fact that they are on top of the world, as far as OS go? Even though Linux is gaining support and use, Windows is still the predominate OS, and will likely stay that way for some time. You can banter about ideology all you want, but the fact of the matter is, the kids will have one more employable skill to add to their list if they can use Windows, and this is ultimately a good thing.

    The OLPC project is not dead. They are not forcing everyone to move to Windows. They are not cutting off support for the SugarOS. They are not doing anything at all except providing more options to facilitate the project having greater penetration. Quite frankly, the hate simply because it will have a variant available with Windows, is abhorrent.
    • craigp, on 05/16/2008, -5/+7Your first point: isn't that the most worrying/scary/saddest thing about this whole sorry mess? The fact that it wasn't adopted because IT workers in the civil service departments in the countries that refused Linux couldn't see past their MSCEs.

      Ivan Krstić (recently resigned from the OLPC project) speaks about this: http://radian.org/notebook/sic-transit-gloria-lapt ... And he's right. It isn't about Windows or Linux. It's about bring a platform of learning to as many kids as possible. This, I agree with.

      What is so sad is that there are so many so-called 'IT Professionals' who couldn't think outside their M$-coloured box to understand that there could be an alternative, and it's this that has killed the chance of Linux on the OLPC. Undoubtedly, Linux is the better technical and philosophical alternative for OLPC, but it has been beaten down by the M$ hegemony.

      If the kids' first experience with a computer ends up being a seven-year-old closed-source virus-ridden OS that is trying to be phased out and not supported by it's vendor, then I feel the OLPC has (at least in part) failed in it's goals of education.
      • Matt2k, on 05/16/2008, -3/+1> If the kids' first experience with a computer ends up being a seven-year-old closed-source virus-ridden OS that is trying to be phased out and not supported by it's vendor,

        The OS runs in the background. The goal is to get these kids using computers, doing research, designing, being creative, and tinkering. Like the rest of the world. The goal is not the operating system you give them.

        > What is so sad is that there are so many so-called 'IT Professionals' who couldn't think outside their M$-coloured box to understand that there could be an alternative

        Maybe the reasons were more pragmatic than knee-jerk reactions by foreign IT departments with buck teeth and a dunce cap. But you've invoked the ever clever dollar sign when spelling MS and insinuated that anyone that objects to your world view on computing is a lesser person. So I'm not really interested in exploring that further.
    • CircleFusion, on 05/16/2008, -2/+6Don't equate this response with simple hate for Microsoft. People are disappointed that the system won't be a 100% open system any longer. Sure, there will be more penetration, but the project itself has changed considerably in order to achieve that penetration.
      • ratbear, on 05/16/2008, -1/+2The free software extremists never really cared about the core mission of OLPC, they just saw it as another vector of attack on proprietary software. It doesn't matter how many additional children will be enriched via this new partnership, it will still be a failure in the eyes of the extremists, because of ideology over code.
        • thorseth, on 05/17/2008, -0/+1Microsoft don't care about the core mission of the OLPC and that is what is worrying.... They WILL destroy the project if they see it in there interest.
        • ratbear, on 05/17/2008, -1/+1Shut the ***** up, Anders.
  • fuzzlog, on 05/16/2008, -12/+10Now the rest of the world can be initiated to very low computing standards and blind mass acceptance.

    Something smells like fish with this whole thing,since when is Micro$oft interested in 'nonprofit' projects?
    • Cthalupa, on 05/16/2008, -3/+4Microsoft, and Bill Gates in particular, have always been heavily involved with charity work. Probably to assuage their conscience, but involved, nonetheless.
    • Vodd9, on 05/16/2008, -2/+6They probably consider it as a long-term investment. The children who have grown up using Linux would probably be more inclined to use this OS instead of windows later-on in their life, which could be bad for Microsoft.
  • akatherder, on 05/16/2008, -6/+4Can I buy one of these for my kid? I don't see a link on their website anywhere. I would like to get one before they start distributing them with XP...
    • Cthalupa, on 05/16/2008, -0/+2There was the "Give one, get one" program, but it ended December 31st. There is a SugarOS LiveCD, though, which you can use to kinda simulate it.

      http://olpc.download.redhat.com/olpc/streams/sdk/l ...
      • akatherder, on 05/16/2008, -0/+2Thanks, that seemed to be what I was reading.

        I don't quite understand their rationale. I know they aren't trying to serve the first world nation, but if they sell two laptops at $300, they can use the $100 profit on each to donate a laptop to a kid in a third world country. I would happily pay $300 for a durable laptop for my daughter to kick the crap out of and learn from.
  • splix, on 05/16/2008, -7/+0Wow, MS have found a new huge market?
  • s4g4n, on 05/16/2008, -10/+6I hope those laptops come with at least 2Gb of memory recommended to run vista.
    • funkymoose, on 05/16/2008, -0/+3"Versions with Windows will cost $18 to $20 more; $3 of that is for Windows, and the rest covers hardware adjustments, like an additional memory-card slot, needed to make Windows run."
  • m60dude5, on 05/16/2008, -6/+3I think for the startup screen, there should be a video of Steve Ballmer running around like a monkey shouting "developers, developers. We need third world developers!" Then there would be 15 people hudled around a laptop going WTF in whatever language they speak. That would be a scene.
  • rtphokie, on 05/16/2008, -7/+2Is this project dead yet? It's been going nowhere for a long long time.
    • Cthalupa, on 05/16/2008, -0/+2Uh, they've launched several programs, and have many more pilot programs in place. It isn't having the earth shattering impact that they had hoped for at the start, but it is certainly making a difference in many lives. 600,000 isn't a huge number, but it isn't something to scoff at, either.
  • slochewie, on 05/16/2008, -8/+13Now I wouldn't take one if they paid me.
  • dataminer, on 05/16/2008, -7/+2Why deny the third world the BSOD? Seriously though, think of all the cool games the kids will have access to.
  • kevindjohnson, on 05/16/2008, -6/+8Looks like Microsoft finally found a way to give away Vista.
  • o6uoq, on 05/16/2008, -7/+10"Versions with Windows will cost $18 to $20 more; $3 of that is for Windows, and the rest covers hardware adjustments, like an additional memory-card slot, needed to make Windows run."

    hahahaha - I found that 'need to make Windows run' part funny.
  • deadheadmon, on 05/16/2008, -8/+15one soul sucking corporate piece of crap per child.
  • nickert0n, on 05/16/2008, -11/+13Ok I have to say this I cant hold it in any longer.
    As I read this there are two major points to each side of the argument in these comments and Id like to point out my perspective.

    Pro M$ on XO: Regardless of OS Laptops for Kid's are good, in which I agree.

    Con M$ on XO: Closed Source, outdated, machine breaker OS in which I agree.

    Now here my feedback, Laptops for kids great, however the OLPC IMO is one of these beautifull things that are now being tainted for publicity purposes.

    Micro$oft is a thug of a company who once gets their foot in the door of this project anyone with extensive history in IT knows will destroy it "indirectly" even if they dont mean too.

    Look SugarOS may have had its problems, ok so now we ditch linux? WTF there are other distros.

    The reason this happend is because the good people that started this project left and the greedy vultures that have taken over the project are making a deal with M$ that is not public to make themselves richer and corrupt this once noble project that some poor kid in africa can go WTF at a BSOD.

    Quote Wikipedia: "Windows XP is generally not seen to be a sustainable operating system.[16] However, Microsoft announced, on the 16 May 2008 that Windows XP would be available for the XO Laptops as an option, and possibly running as a dual boot alongside Linux.[17] Charles Kane became new president of the foundation.[18][19]"

    Which means Microsoft is saying that they wont have them dual boot with Linux at all so forget that pipe dream.

    This was an open movement that was succeding and the mother ***** fat pigs musceled out the good people behind it so they could get som premium vasoline to get thier dicks greased.

    Microsoft is a snake that will bite anyone that deals with it. Look at history.

    I cant wait, CANT WAIT for Linux to rule the desktop market and Microsoft can tell stories around the campfire about the good ol days.
    • sandiegodude, on 05/16/2008, -3/+2Never ever ever quote Wikis. Best to follow their sources and quote from there if its reputable. I could go edit that entry and enter "Micro$oft wants to eat your bebbies!!!" It would get fixed, but it still destroys your credibility in your quote. Besides, when it comes to wikis you want to check sources anyway. Always fun to follow links of sources and find things like blog entries and such which are quoted as "fact."

      By the way, as evil as M$ is in the marketplace (I'm in 100% agreement with you there) they have been great in regards to charity work, stemming from Bills charity work.
      • nickert0n, on 05/16/2008, -1/+4Bills Charity work is the work of the Gates Foundation not Microsoft itself.
        • sandiegodude, on 05/16/2008, -2/+2Correct. But who started and ran M$ for many years?

          CEO doesn't just sit back and rake in the cash, they take an active and leading part in the direction of the corporation. M$ charity work started when Bill was still at the helm, and hasn't changed since his departure.
    • simg, on 05/16/2008, -0/+4I always thought it was strange that they tried to develop a new OS for the OLPC.

      If you're trying to create a cheap computer, why not put any well known Linux distro on it ? Zero development costs ...

      • nickert0n, on 05/16/2008, -1/+2Yes Re-inventing the weel on a tight budget wasent the best move.
    • ronaldmonster, on 05/16/2008, -4/+4You Linux users trip me the hell out. Ok, so, Microsoft wants to get in on the action, whats wrong with that? You guys act like Linux should be everyones choice, sadly it isn't, I've tried converting to Linux many times but sadly I kept going back to windows cause usability in is a bitch when installing programs and crappy drivers tagged along with one hell of a learning curve hasn't kept me there long.
      • nickert0n, on 05/16/2008, -1/+3Im not saying anything is "ethically" wrong, im saying that Microsoft is the invert of King Midas.
        Everything it touches turns to *****.

        Now your personal epxierence with Linux is unfortante but I would advise you not to look at one flavor of linux as an exact representation.

        Linux is like human beings, it comes in all shapes, sizes, personalities, and behaviours.

        Yes they all have similariites (like the majority of us having two arms, two legs, two eyes and so forth) but to imply that we are all the same is absurd. So goes the same with linux.

        I have had my whoes with Linux, and I have had my successes.

        Heres the thing I run a dsitro now that I have had naitive hardware support, awsome online support more indepth than any Microsoft Product, Its secure and if a security hole is found will be fixed right away instead of having to wait for Microsoft devlopers to compile it and release it when the get motivated enough. And its free, not just in cost but its Free too modify and redistribute. I use Ubnutu Hardy Heron and Ill be honest with you Im not a developer, I read if I have a problem.

        The point is to provide these children with something they can take apart modify and contribute to the world and achieve.

        Not to have to abide by a proprietary EULA stating they wont reverse engineer the compiled source code.

        And maybe Windows is great for you honestly it comes down to prefrence, but to force feed that ***** down these kids throats so a bunch of people get richer makes me sick.
        • sandiegodude, on 05/16/2008, -3/+3"And maybe Windows is great for you honestly it comes down to prefrence, but to force feed that ***** down these kids throats so a bunch of people get richer makes me sick."

          One thing you seemed to miss from the article. the OLPC movement has been getting resistance in some countries due to its lack of running Windows, which is why its a good thing they're going to be adding XP as a dual boot option. This will appease the countries bitching about lack of windows, but will still keep a linux based OS available for kids that want to tinker.

          Also, I don't know if you've actually seen these laptops before. They're designed for the "younger" crowd - Think 5 to 8 year olds. You keep talking about cracking the hood and coding in SugarOS but most of these kids will be having a blast playing simple math and spelling games and using a dumbed down Word Processing app to write letters to Santa. Don't get me wrong, I HOPE kids will be coding, but your average child won't be at that age, especially in locales where electricity and running water in your home means you're living large.
        • nickert0n, on 05/16/2008, -1/+2To the point of an intelegence of a young child, never underestimate a poor child with a computer and notthing but time on thier hands due to having notthing other than it, they will learn. Thats the point.

          And you are beleving exactly what you are being told, countries negelecting the laptop due to not having XP.

          NO COUNTRY HAS DONE SO, Country's themselves dont order laptops, it has been the individual school boards and organizations and even that has been blown out of porportion.

          Look bleieve what you will but this is just M$ muscleing their way into another sector to ruin.
          Remember this converstaion when that happens.
    • kretik, on 05/16/2008, -0/+3Try this again without the puerile dollar signs, and maybe someone will think your opinion is worth reading.
  • sagat, on 05/16/2008, -2/+9It's sad that it has happened but it seems the world was not ready for Linux. OLPC's sales were very poor and with counties such as India and Egypt demanding Windows based systems, they had little choice but to give in. Remember this was never about Linux it was about making technology available to those who would have grown up and lived their entire lives without ever seeing a computer. OS aside the most important thing is to get laptops to the kids.
    • c5kirk, on 05/16/2008, -1/+4I think that's the problem... originally the project was about getting the technology into the hands of children. However, for many in the Free and Open Source community the project became less about getting technology to children and more about giving themselves a platform from which to preach and promote their F/OSS ideology. Hence, anything that goes against that ideology, such as putting XP on the machines, is bad in their eyes... even if it results in more children getting laptops.
    • craigp, on 05/16/2008, -1/+2...and isn't that the most worrying/scary/saddest thing about this whole sorry mess? The fact that it wasn't adopted because IT workers in the civil service departments in the countries that refused Linux couldn't see past their MSCEs.

      Ivan Krstić (recently resigned from the OLPC project) speaks about this: http://radian.org/notebook/sic-transit-gloria-lapt ... And he's right. It isn't about Windows or Linux. It's about bring a platform of learning to as many kids as possible. This, I agree with.

      What is so sad is that there are so many so-called 'IT Professionals' who couldn't think outside their M$-coloured box to understand that there could be an alternative, and it's this that has killed the chance of Linux on the OLPC. Undoubtedly, Linux is the better technical and philosophical alternative for OLPC, but it has been beaten down by the M$ hegemony.

      If the kids' first experience with a computer ends up being a seven-year-old closed-source virus-ridden OS that is trying to be phased out and not supported by it's vendor, then I feel the OLPC has (at least in part) failed in it's goals of education.
  • falafelkiosken, on 05/16/2008, -6/+11Microsoft? I hate those guys
    • WayOfTheIronPaw, on 05/16/2008, -0/+2Microsoft? Why did it have to be Microsoft?

      (Another Indiana Jones reference.)
  • skip77, on 05/16/2008, -2/+6From "laptop.org/laptop/software/" :

    "XO is built from free and open-source software. Our commitment to software freedom gives children the opportunity to use their laptops on their own terms. While we do not expect every child to become a programmer, we do not want any ceiling imposed on those children who choose to modify their machines. We are using open-document formats for much the same reason: transparency is empowering. The children—and their teachers—will have the freedom to reshape, reinvent, and reapply their software, hardware, and content."

    Guess they might haven't gotten around to "updating" this section yet....
    :(
  • Kenzan, on 05/16/2008, -0/+5I really hope that these will be available for our poorest children in America as well as other nations.
    • Cthalupa, on 05/16/2008, -0/+2A pilot program is already underway in Birmingham, Alabama, with 15000 XOs.
    • ganus, on 05/16/2008, -0/+2I've always wondered why there is so much publicity for poor children in other countries when I'm sure almost everyone has a poor child living very close to them.
  • robinohio1, on 05/16/2008, -3/+3Yeah, one could learn to script in Perl, Ruby (which is a ***** scripting language by the way), and program in C but playing with your OS is the ultimate way of learning how to program on the hardware levels. Try that with closed source without the "authorized" APIs.

    And by the way Cthalupa, I never mentioned Windows or Microsoft. I was pointing out the downside of a closed source OS on an open source PC and the effect it will likely have. I doubt the people who run slashdot.org would agree with any of your remarks.
    • Cthalupa, on 05/16/2008, -1/+3The merits of ruby have nothing to do with this discussion, so I really have no idea what in the world you're on about, and why it matters. And do you really think that, in the world today, assembly, etc, are more important for people to learn than, say, C++? The OLPC was never meant to be the "ULTIMATE SOLUTION" to anything. Just a way to get kids in 3rd world countries using computers and learning.

      And, by the way, you could never really do all that much with the Sugar OS, either. It's basically one big overgrown Python script, and that's what they had access to. They certainly weren't going to be able to roll out their own kernels and such.

      And you don't have to mention Windows to know it's obviously the point of discussion for this entire article. And what in the world does Slashdot (or Kuro5hin, or any other random website) have to do with this? CowboyNeal, CmdrTaco, and Hemos are all cool people, etc, but who cares if they agree with me or not?

      Edit: Also, why not just reply to my comment, instead of starting a new thread? The option exists for a reason.
      • robinohio1, on 05/16/2008, -2/+2OLPC has many objectives and goes far beyond Sugar OS. I do believe there was a Linux kernel involved...yes, yes, I believe so. What sucks is it is going to be soldout to microsoft before long.

        Where do people like you come from anyway?
      • robinohio1, on 05/19/2008, -0/+1Cthalupa, something you should look at:
        http://education.zdnet.com/?p=1686
  • FredFredrickson, on 05/16/2008, -4/+4"One laptop per child" is such a stupid name / idea. Shouldn't we make sure these kids get fed first?
    • Cruelapollo, on 05/16/2008, -0/+3Go complain to another organization that does that. Education is this charity's thing and that's what they do best. You can't have everyone focus on just the food.
  • PRlME, on 05/16/2008, -3/+4Yea Microsofttttttt
  • christophski, on 05/16/2008, -7/+6oh FFS, pfft, thankyou very much Microsoft for ruining another perfectly good product...
  • PacketScan, on 05/16/2008, -6/+7Watch it die.
  • KaivenTor, on 05/16/2008, -2/+5For a better insight into why this killed or rather broke open the OLPC program, read this: http://radian.org/notebook/sic-transit-gloria-lapt ...
    • stygiansonic, on 05/16/2008, -0/+2Long, but excellent read. No one better to tell it like it is than someone who worked so closely and left after the changes started happening.
    • WayOfTheIronPaw, on 05/16/2008, -0/+1Freakin awesome link.
  • EEdesigner, on 05/16/2008, -3/+6This is a good move. Children need to learn about computer lockups,failures,and the
    blue screen of
    death. They need to know how to reinstall an operating system, set
    up firewalls, and completely distrust their machines. To start them
    in Linnux would be to give them a false impression that all software
    is equal. Exposure to programming incompetence must start early.
  • truck87bp, on 05/16/2008, -3/+4Should the $100 laptop be controlled before it too late?
    Is the Linux software too far away from the Microsoft Endorsed and Coded Trusted Computing Platform ?
    Has it been decided that no one can be trusted and only approved software must be used ?
    Has Trusted Computing and Digital Rights Management removed any pleasure recently from you when you use your personal computer to do personal stuff like make a home movie or edit a family photograph or make a DVD?
    Does your computer know the owner of the digital camera or scanner or ipod you just plugged in?
    Has your software limited you from using a Cannon camera with a Nikon or Olympus camera software?
    Does windows stop you from importing MOV files from your $600 camera into Movie Maker?
    Has MS software disabled any of your older equipment from working on Windows making you think it is broken but somehow it works fine in Linux?
    Is MS also trying to destroying Linux and Apple by enforcing TC and DRM ?
    Will Apple and Linux become the computing platform's of the very near future due to pure spite by people that currently use MS Windows and their products ?
    Has MS inadvertently destroyed their own business by subjecting freedom to total lock-down and creating hate by anyone who uses proprietary software ?
    Is Linux and Apple going to go away because of all of this and why won't it ?
    Do you feel that you better get Linux on a computer before its too late even if you don't know currently how to use it ?
    Are the Linux users getting close to being afraid of doing automatic updates?
    How much are you willing to give up of your personal rights, freedom and happiness?
    Does Trusted Computing really mean what it implies ?
    Are you feeling totally different why the One Laptop Per Child is going to have Windows installed it ? Why do most new computers have windows pre-installed on them ?
    • MWeather, on 05/16/2008, -0/+1These questions - and many others - will be answered in the next episode of Soap!
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