digg

Join DiggAbout

Discover and share the best of the web!
Learn more about Digg by taking the tour.

Don't give Microsoft the remote control - fight against DRM

badvista.fsf.org — If you put Microsoft at the center of your home entertainment system, be prepared to hand them the remote control, literally. Microsoft has gone to great lengths to restrict users from saving a television program to their computers, we call this kind of functionality an "antifeature".

Bury
show profanity settings
expand all
  • rek2, on 05/21/2008, -19/+94I agree! we can't let microsoft rule our lifes.!

    http://www.dailyradical.org
    http://www.binaryfreedom.info
    • arlok789, on 05/21/2008, -1/+19This is stupid. As wrong as it is, you can't stop people from sharing media. Companies need to face this fact and deal with it in other ways.
      • mrsteveman1, on 05/21/2008, -2/+18The DRM in vista has nothing to do with preventing file sharing, its to control how you can use stuff you paid for, and charge you more for certain rights in certain cases.
        • KibibyteBrain, on 05/22/2008, -1/+5This is what people really need to understand. ThePirateBay will still get media if it means reverse engineering monitors to intercept the video signal going to all the TFTs on the pixel matrix and capturing that as the final analog hole. This is about making it so that when you have to rebuy your movies when you get a ZuneTV+ to go with your ZunePhone, and noting to do with stopping piracy.
          If these people really wanted to stop piracy, they'd actually do the opposite of DRM and beat the pirates at their own game by making their media more convenient to use and higher quality, and then fighting the need for price with other factors like not needing to waste power, bandwidth, or hard disk space as is the current pirate status quo.
    • CrazedLeper, on 05/21/2008, -5/+8This is just why I installed Linux and why I persist trying to use it though I can hardly get it to do a thing (I'm a tech support level user on Windows). I also reject all DRM in my PC. Television is outmoded and about to die anyway, so all the scheming may well prove moot in the long run.
      • popfrogs, on 05/21/2008, -2/+10One word, mythtv. That is, if you want a box that plugs in to your TV and does what you want it to. I used to keep up with knoppmyth at http://www.mysettopbox.tv and it's a nice turnkey distro for most hardware. DRM free.
        • Tenoq, on 05/22/2008, -2/+5It's not that easy to get going though, in my experience. Not like setting a 2005 MCE box is.
        • mrsteveman1, on 05/22/2008, -1/+3I actually spent quite a bit of time setting up knoppmyth, and it did nothing but annoy me.

          The setup pages for mythtv were completely retarded, and because of stupid political kernel *****, the driver for the TV card is not included in the kernel, and even after adding the driver myself, it barely works in Linux.

          Contrast this to Snapstream on Windows, which was the original reason i bought the card in the first place, which worked perfectly right after installing it.

          Of course none of this really matters unless you are using QAM, ATSC, or an analog input, because Linux isn't ever going to support anything else, especially not CableCARD, or Directv cards if they ever make one.
      • KenJackson, on 05/22/2008, -4/+4Television is about to die?

        Hey, we all seem to agree that DRM is not only wrong but dumb. But the TV isn't going anywhere for decades to come.
        • bitcloud, on 05/22/2008, -2/+2what's TV again?
        • meruru, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1It's funny that people are talking about TV dieing in one breath and then discussing their various ways of recording and sharing TV shows in the next.
    • over900000, on 05/21/2008, -7/+19And yet when Apple releases AppleTV with DRM worse than MS, everyone says how great it is.

      Also when people bring up the horrible DRM on iTunes, apple fanboys are quick to point out that it's the record companies that force Apple to do so. And yet when it comes to MS, it's different.
      • kineticarl, on 05/21/2008, -4/+10Don't you know? Think brainwashed, er, I mean *different*.
      • WiseWeasel, on 05/22/2008, -6/+3Any evidence of this support for Apple's DRM? There was a popular Digg topic just the other day concerning iTunes DRM, and there were just a couple people, deeply buried, I might add, trying to defend Apple's use of DRM, with pretty much everyone in agreement that it sucks in every way possible. I own Apple stock, and I'll be the first to denounce their DRM for the unacceptable sham that it is. AppleTV is good for playing the standard format content from my library, and for video podcasts, and that's it. I think you're just creating a controversy where there's none. From my experience, Diggers agree that all DRM is crap, regardless of its source.
      • Tenoq, on 05/22/2008, -2/+690% of the desktop market and you think it isn't Microsoft's choice? Riiiight.
      • mrsteveman1, on 05/22/2008, -6/+2MS goes out of their way to implement whatever restrictions content owners want.

        Apple doesn't.
        • doctordbx, on 05/22/2008, -1/+6Because it's not out of their way, it's in fact part of the core mission.

          It's been built into iTunes and iPods form pretty much the word go... I wouldn't say that was going out of their way.
        • Dexists, on 05/22/2008, -1/+2If you knew a thing about what you were talking about then you would know that you are utterly wrong on this.
        • mrsteveman1, on 05/22/2008, -1/+2I'm quite familiar with how Janus works, and I'm quite familiar with how FairPlay works, so wtf am i wrong about?

          I've been paying attention for the last few years, apparently you haven't. Remember Palladium? Why do you suppose MS was so interested? It had nothing to do with stopping viruses, the time and effort spent on Palladium was fueled by Microsofts desire to lock their platform down, so they could show software companies and content owners that their platform doesn't even allow pirated music or videos to play, or pirated software to run.

          That's an example, there are a bunch more, all of which show Microsoft going out of their way to do whatever content owners and software companies want.
    • jabberwolf, on 05/21/2008, -8/+11This was probably a TEST and a good one at that.

      Not for MS but for those that always find the patch around it, now everyone has been put on alert.
      Apple has been doing this for YEARS but no one cares to actually do anything about it and most still stuck with the problem.

      But because this is MS ( OMFG lets cry) - sorry PC users don't cry and bitch about it - we fix it. This has always been a cat and mouse game with MS ( who is under pressure to protect IP because they do have 90% of the market). But MS also secretly knows that it's usually cracked this within days, maybe weeks. Already cracked patchgaurd/PMP soon after it came out. Whoopee!

      So, I'm not sure what the big hoopla is about? More Mactards trying to get attention? Most likely.
      • WiseWeasel, on 05/22/2008, -3/+4It's actually a Linux advocacy group that's promoting this info, not "Mactards", as you so eloquently put it. Second of all, there are millions of users trapped with Microsoft's DRM just as there are with Apple's, and if you think MS's is any easier to crack than Apple's, then you might want to look in the mirror before accusing others of fanboyism. Just as I wouldn't trust Apple with DRM for my content library, I wouldn't trust Microsoft either, and so they are completely deserving of this criticism. If it's good to criticize Apple for DRM, then it's also good to criticize Microsoft for it, unless you're a total hypocrite, of course.
      • mrsteveman1, on 05/22/2008, -2/+3what the ******* are you talking about?

        This came from the FSF, it has nothing to do with Apple or anything else fruit related.

        I would also love to know what the ***** you mean when you say apple has been doing this for years. The subject of this thread is the broadcast flag, apple doesn't have ANYTHING that even accepts live broadcasts, or records anything.

        If you want to make the claim that Apple implements DRM just like MS, fine, but Apple doesn't go out of their way to make it difficult for users to use stuff, MS likes to implement whatever content owners ask for, even when it breaks *****.

        I've broken Apples DRM, even on Videos, i have never been able to do it with WMV or WMA because they patch it VERY quickly. Wanna know why? because they have spent the last few years trying to show content owners they are the toughest, most restrictive system available, in the hopes that content owners will use WMA/WMV drm exclusively, which benefits Microsoft greatly.
    • misterjangles, on 05/21/2008, -5/+5MCE only adds DRM if the broadcast flag is set by the cable provider. You can easily strip out the broadcast flag and copy/burn any movie or show recorded with MCE (google for Sima video enhancer).

      The only thing that sux is it won't work for HD. I don't think any home-brew systems yet will work yet with encrypted cable/satellite HD?
      • mrsteveman1, on 05/22/2008, -2/+4How exactly does that work, if MCE refuses to record it in the first place?
        • misterjangles, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1The cable broadcast flag is just extra data that is sent along with the video. The Sima device strips that extra data out before it reaches MCE. (it's an unintentional side-effect of the video enhancer). MCE doesn't know the flag was ever there - so it just records it as regular video w/o any DRM or copy protection.

          HD cable is a different story because instead of the flag, it uses encryption. As I understand you need a cable card to decrypt it - a company could probably produce a card that allowed you to copy content, but they would not get FCC certified and therefore would not make it to the US market. I hope I am wrong about that, but I think that's the way it works currently.
    • diggingaround, on 05/22/2008, -5/+5Just use Linux...
      • astrotrain, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2Another pro for using Linux. Let most of the world (and the media companies) keep thinking that the world revolves around Microsoft.

        Make all anti-piracy tools to run on Microsoft only...keep all Microsoft users hypnotized.
    • opticsnake, on 05/22/2008, -2/+1Or, for that matter, our LIVES!
    • collinstocks, on 05/26/2008, -1/+0Yeah, just look at the bottom of this digg page...

      ------------------------------
      Advertise
      You can buy advertising on Digg through our advertising partner Microsoft.
      ------------------------------

      Ummm...
  • aindilis, on 05/21/2008, -25/+116Dear rek2,

    Our sentiment analysis software (http://www.cs.pitt.edu/mpqa/opinionfinderrelease/) has discovered that you have expressed illegal hate speech against Microsoft. You are advised to desist or face fines of up to $100,000. As a cautionary measure, you will not be able to post to any discussion forums, and your bandwidth is being constricted.

    Microsoft Legal Department
    • doshindude, on 05/21/2008, -3/+17lawl
    • mpam, on 05/21/2008, -7/+14To all ppl burying this one: it's a joke, smart boys.
    • Jawshie, on 05/21/2008, -4/+21I dont understand why people are burying this guy. He makes absolute sense... If we continue to let Microsoft do these kinds of things, they can (and probably will) come to own us. Anything for a couple more dollars, yeah?
      • Waterrat, on 05/21/2008, -4/+6 I agree. They are big time megalomaniacs!
        I now use Linux and you could not pay me to use Vista.
        • logan074, on 05/21/2008, -8/+2I bet you would use it if someone paid you.
      • chriskeyes, on 05/23/2008, -0/+2More like the broadcaster doing these things.

        Microsoft is the middleman in all this. The company has to deal with both consumers and broadcasting companies. You can't anger both. So MS is trying to make it equal, and if NBC chose to raise the flag, we should be screaming our heads off at NBC. NOT MS.
  • GIMAD2008, on 05/21/2008, -16/+65Yet another reason why I don't use Microsoft media functionality.
    • banmaster, on 05/21/2008, -16/+26So, um, how can I possibly record TV using Media Centre built into Vista then??
      Sorry, but the article (or rather some dopey little prat's anti-MS screeching) is just plain FUD. Then again, what else is one supposed to expect from badvista.whatever, where they turn a federally mandated (and very crappy) decision into an anti-MS rant fest. Any legally produced linux PVR software would have to adhere to the same thing too, but of course they fail to mention this, what a surprise.
      You think MS actually wants to stop you recording shows? Its just like the ***** sony and the bluray/hd dvd bastards made them do to ensure the HD stream is completely encrypted from its trip from the HD-drive to the monitor (the video driver is polled every 30ms to make sure its not 'hacked' for example), and yet it was MS that got the blame, rather than the ***** media companies and their sycophantic lobyist bribe takers in washington.
      When will the linux fanboys actually stop spreading misinformation because they #1 have small penises, and #2 are sad because most people don't want to be put to huge inconveniences if they chose to use linux over their current OS that works just fine and lets them do everything they ever want to already.
      • specialK16, on 05/22/2008, -2/+3I was with you UNTIL the last paragraph. You have a huge e-penis but I bet you don't even have a real penis.
    • madeingermany, on 05/21/2008, -8/+11I'm really sorry to say this, but functionality and usability wise, Windows Media Center is the best software Microsoft ever created.

      Adhering to FCC regulation is not really something you can blame MS for - there are enough other reasons, but Media Center is not one of them for me.
      • alwaysmc2, on 05/21/2008, -3/+2You don't have to be sorry to say it! :-)
      • WiseWeasel, on 05/22/2008, -3/+9The problem is that there IS NO FCC REGULATION requiring adherence to the broadcast flag. That was just a smokescreen. The FCC was CONSIDERING such a requirement, but it was abandoned after they discovered they didn't have the authority. As for being the best software Microsoft has ever created, that might sadly be true. : P
    • Tahiri, on 05/22/2008, -2/+3media center is useless. i have most of my stuff burned onto cd/dvd yet media center wont use them. so its useless for 99% of my content. as such i havent used it since the day i got vista

      and the point is they arent adhering to the fcc. the fcc had this rule shot down years ago
      • DarkShroud, on 05/22/2008, -2/+1Install & run either AnyDVD (have to pay) or DVD43 (free) while trying to play a DVD.
    • SolidSnak, on 05/22/2008, -3/+4Another reason why I don't use microsoft period.
  • BigManOnCampus, on 05/21/2008, -7/+54Just use MythTV. It's got a very very active userbase, and it could probably use more contributors/coders. It's slick, open-source, and it works great with high definition cards. I couldn't be happier with my mythtv setup.
    • crapuccino, on 05/21/2008, -4/+20MythTV is great. Just pick up one of the pre-built distributions such as Mythbuntu or Mythdora (there are others). I'm watching Futurama on mine now. Doesn't get a lot more nerdy than that eh?
    • oxdeltaxo, on 05/21/2008, -3/+14Exactly, it's not like you must use m$ products. You can use any number of other services some of which are free, such as MythTV.
    • cdawzrd, on 05/21/2008, -3/+12MythTV's interface kinda sucks in my opinion, especially compared to MediaPortal or Media Center. Just sayin'...
      • BigManOnCampus, on 05/21/2008, -1/+5I will admit this is my biggest beef with mythtv. The interface needs work. But it makes up for that with speed with a rich feature set.
        • lordtyros, on 05/21/2008, -1/+7I will admit this is my biggest beef with linux. The interface needs work. But it makes up for that with speed and with a rich feature set.
        • eir574, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2I'm curious about this. I have a mythtv box, and I'm perfectly comfortable with the user interface. My husband, though. can't seem to navigate his way through the menus, and as a result, my heart rate speeds up a little every time he goes near it. What would you like to see changed?
        • BigManOnCampus, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Please note when reading this that I haven't gone through to customize the commands for any IR remote (yet). It's something I'll get to eventually.

          For one, the interface for customizing the keyboard commands is sort of archane. For instance, If I want to find what key is assigned to bringing up the guide while watching TV, it really isn't obvious where to look, as there are different keysets depending on where in MythTV I am. There's also a lack of flow to the menus, as certain plugins get buried into the setup further than they should be. Finding the correct key to add metadata to my videos literally took me half an hour of flipping through the keysets. It needs work.
        • eir574, on 05/22/2008, -1/+2Ah, yes. I did do some customization for the commands I use the most, but I have no choice but to consult documentation for more complex things. Usually, though, I don't need anything more than a few standard commands above and beyond the usual remote control functions.

          I once went into the mysql database and changed the episode descriptions on my husband's favorite shows. That was fun.
    • Brasky, on 05/22/2008, -4/+4Sorry, I have been down every road and Myth doesn't compare to MCE. I hate to say it, but MCE "just works".
    • geoken, on 05/22/2008, -2/+8MCE just works? My capture card was not supported by MCE, Myth uses is just fine. My Microsoft remote is not programable in MCE, myth lets me use any button for anything (aka. I can actually fast forward and rewind an xvid). MCE makes me use hackish, 3rd party apps to get movie posters while myth auto downloads them from IMDB.

      MCE also litters the main menu with all it's partner services and doesn't let you remove them. Half of the MCE menu is made up of crap I need to subscribe to. MCE gives me AOL photos instead of flikr (which every other media center app includes). They also give me some lame online radio stations from one of their partners rather than the superior shoutcast that every other media center app gives you.
    • iFrikkenR, on 05/22/2008, -4/+2Try GBPVR for a windows based alternative. www.gbpvr.com it's frikken brilliant (and FREE!) and saves dicking around with linux for those who can't be arsed
    • AzureRise, on 05/22/2008, -3/+2Don't be an idiot. Bill Gates would never do that. It's Steve Ballmer doing that, duh.
  • FreeDeb, on 05/21/2008, -11/+44Next up, let Bill Gates order your food at restaurants and pick out your clothes!
    • Chompy, on 05/21/2008, -1/+18Sweater vests for everyone!
      • grumpyrain, on 05/22/2008, -0/+6At least they won't be turtlenecks.
      • astrotrain, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1...that say "Microsoft Rocks!", and "Kiss Me, I'm A Microsoft Zombie"
    • jon61575, on 05/21/2008, -3/+10Its more like you have to buy your clothes through Microsoft and then you can't borrow those clothes to your brother or donate them because only you are licensed to wear them.
      • inspecality, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5Well it cuts down on people duplicating the clothes at Microsoft Apparel right?
      • astrotrain, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Next up.... hundreds of people go naked due to Microsoft revoking their clothing licenses.
    • benecere, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2Well, yeah, that would be pretty bad ... but worse if it's Ballmer.

      Kind of like the difference between a bad dream and a visit from Freddy.
    • TxAggie08, on 05/22/2008, -0/+5As long as I can use a Big Ass Table to do it all, sure!
      • kevisazombie, on 05/22/2008, -1/+2I see what you did there. Does said Big Ass Table have nifty touch screen effects?
  • LANjackal, on 05/21/2008, -31/+8*yawn* as if the FSF would have anything good to say about MS in the first place. Besides, the article fails to mention that this is as much an NBC problem as it is an OS one. It's not that the blame lies with MS solely, but the FSF likes to act as if it does.
    • johnsu01, on 05/21/2008, -6/+19We pressure the networks and producers too. But this particular issue is software -- it's MS making the choice to implement it when they don't have to. This is a complicated problem with a lot of people involved, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't point to all of them specifically.

      • banmaster, on 05/21/2008, -8/+3So, lets assume they don't implement the broadcast flag thing, you don't think NBC would immediately pull all their content from any MS media store thing? Grow up.
        • luchid, on 05/21/2008, -0/+6So? If MS cared even a tiny bit about their customer base they would refuse to implement it. They have the leverage and user base to pull it off. Yet they keep biting the hand that feeds them.
        • DarkShroud, on 05/22/2008, -2/+1@luchid But it was ok for Apple to use DRM that only worked on their .mp3 player because they're not MS right.
        • nshady, on 05/22/2008, -0/+3@DarkShroud

          True, Apple does use DRM, but given that they pioneered the whole online marketplace thing I'm pretty sure it was the only way that the music companies would have let it happen. The difference with this is that Microsoft are going ahead and putting in these restrictions for no real reason, when you can record video and do all the stuff you want to do already with other software. Basically, they don't want Microsoft muscling into this market.
    • geehossiphats, on 05/22/2008, -1/+2I can't think of anything good to say about the company. But then again, what do I care? I havn't used microsoft software for over 6 years.
  • jcannonb, on 05/21/2008, -13/+83All DRM should die a horrible, painful death. I am OK with watermarking. If you are going to fileshare copyrighted material, you should be caught, but, if you want to use the same song or video on a shared family computer in your home, that should be OK for all users of that computer, not just you.
    • whisperedlie, on 05/21/2008, -3/+9scaling back to watermarking, not good enough.

      give an inch, they take a mile.

      It's ludicrous that I must be marked or tagged simply because I chose to consume something. Anonymity and privacy are vital components of freedom.
    • DickBreath, on 05/21/2008, -2/+9Watermarking == bad.

      It is deliberately distorting the quality of the real content.

      DRM Free is the way to go. Big media is slowly, kicking and screaming, beginning to realize this.
      • HyperHacker, on 05/21/2008, -3/+5Agreed. Watermarking is one of those things that works in theory, but in practise, a watermark that's invisible to even the average user - let alone us hi-fi audiophiles - isn't going to be strong enough to be of any use.
        • grumpyrain, on 05/22/2008, -2/+3/sigh

          Are they the same audiophiles that can hear the difference of wooden volume knobs and thousand dollar cables?
      • jcannonb, on 05/22/2008, -0/+6I wish all DRM was gone, incl. watermarking, but if something if some type of handcuffing is going to take place, I would prefer watermarking over DRM anyday.
    • carlosos, on 05/22/2008, -0/+15I believe the only DRM that should exist is for renting. Watermarking and other types of DRM for bought products should not exist.
  • hamobu, on 05/21/2008, -14/+67Use Linux, or lose freedom. Company imposed restrictions are becoming commonplace. Since the beginning of time, people have had the freedom to buy goods at one place, and sell them at another place to make a profit. Indeed it is this kind of trade that is a foundation of our civilization, and many other civilizations of the past. However these days people are taking it for granted that DVD sold in one country will not play in another. It is one of many examples of how freedoms of many are limited for the profit of few.
    • nmnnotmyname, on 05/21/2008, -2/+10As zealous as it sounds, It's about as true as it gets: If you're OS vendor is a greedy corporation (read: greedy, not just a corporation) then you're at risk to losing rights (You already do at this point!)
      • HyperHacker, on 05/21/2008, -1/+6I couldn't count how many EULAs I needed to agree to on Windows. Damn near everything has one. On Linux? So far I've seen one, for Java. Even if you don't mind the terms of the contracts, having to read and sign them all gets annoying pretty fast, and if you don't read them, odds are good you're agreeing to have spyware/DRM/etc installed.
    • gudnbluts, on 05/21/2008, -2/+1[Deleted comment as it was in the wrong bloody place]
  • schif, on 05/21/2008, -14/+42Microsoft is using DRM to prevent users from saving certain television shows to their hard drive. Saving such streams is a normal feature that comes with Windows Media Center, but they have locked you out of it for NBC television shows and others. They claim that they are just following FCC regulations -- but the Second Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the FCC has no authority to make such regulations. The truth is Microsoft is just power hungry and making use of DRM wherever and whenever they can in order to secure media deals for themselves and lock in their customers.
    • whisperedlie, on 05/21/2008, -6/+9You are so missing the point. Consumer lock-in is a valid concern with DRM content. With that, and Microsoft just being the time-old "power hungry" corporation monolith (as you described them), I have a few concerns about your comment:

      1) What does preventing saving of content streams have to do with brand lock-in? If you can't save it, you can't be forced to use something to consume it because you don't have the content. Stay on topic here.

      2) Microsoft is not the source of the issue. Media conglomerates are. Companies like Microsoft and Apple are facilitating a demand from other companies that have great influence. That's how business works. I'm sure media rights holders are happy for software and device companies to absorb the consumer backlash. As long as you keep demanding their content in whatever form with whatever restriction they see fit, they'll always find someone to facilitate their demands.

      3) I also hate DRM. I don't care if it's a system from Microsoft, Apple, or from God him/her/its -self. So, while I like your fire and passion, I think you're just picking sides here if you single out just one vendor.

      4) I can enjoy DRM-free content on lots of devices and software packages, from the most DRM-laden to the least (but let's be serious here, with the exception of Windows Vista, none are "more" DRM-laden than the rest... ALL have one facility for it or another), so long as I don't buy DRM content.

      So, if a certain device or software package does not suit your needs or makes you uncomfortable, don't buy it or use it. Hey man, I respect the ***** out of that, and furthermore, I agree. However, when it comes to discussing this stuff, spreading the word, and so forth, be a little more holistic and less fanatical.
      • geehossiphats, on 05/22/2008, -1/+1"Microsoft and Apple are facilitating a demand from other companies that have great influence"

        How 'bout facilitating a demand from paying customers??? Hmmm????
        • whisperedlie, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1That's a little naive. When the loss of profit from lack of demand from end consumers becomes a significant problem, sure. Both big media _and_ these vendors will begin to change. The fact that rights owners and vendors are making these sorts of plays relatively unchallenged (in the grander scheme of things) indicates that the end consumer is OK with getting ***** over and is gladly paying for rubbish software and electronics.

          That brings me back to my original point: the ills of DRM need to be broadcast and pounded into everyone's skull, and you can only do that by treating the issue holistically and sensibly. Telling someone not to buy a Zune or Windows Media Center doesn't do a ***** lick of good while people are still out there downloading the hell out of iTunes Marketplace, Amazon, Napster, etc. DRM content.
    • alwaysmc2, on 05/21/2008, -5/+7With Media Center you can record TV shows, and then watch those shows on the computer or though any media center extender. You can also burn the show to a DVD, or just copy the recording file to any other Windows computer and watch it there. You can also put the TV show on a Zune or any Windows Media Player-compatible device. You can even convert the recording format to another format, all without DRM. TIVO can't say nearly that much.

      I doubt that your story is true, or at the very least that you have the whole story.
    • DeFex, on 05/22/2008, -1/+4well it doesnt matter the shows are crap anyways.
    • astrofrank128, on 05/22/2008, -1/+1Way to copy/paste directly from the DefectiveByDesign email... seriously, that's pathetic.
  • borez, on 05/21/2008, -13/+24Just don't buy an MS media system... problem solved

    Me myself I prefer my G5 linked to my TV with content coming from TVtorrents, UK Nova and Demanoid. Job done and till I can find a viable legitimate alternative then I'll continue getting my entertainment this way.
  • Positivx, on 05/21/2008, -6/+28I don't get it. How is this any different than DVR'ing your favorite TV shows? Just because it ends up on a desktop or laptop, that makes it evil? This is stupidity.
    • HyperHacker, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2My guess would be they're assuming you can't easily copy things from a DVR and share them online. How true that is, I couldn't say, but my assumption would be "not very".
    • Waterrat, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3 You might share it.*gaso*
    • aelias, on 05/21/2008, -1/+4That hop between the two devices should generate some money for them, in an ideal world. The problem is twofold.

      1.) They're wrong.

      2.) People can still watch the shows they want to by other means, and still stream it through windows, it's just slightly more of a pain in the ass. People have shown that they are willing to endure quite a bit of PITA to get something for free.
  • sockpuppets, on 05/21/2008, -19/+17It's funny that Microsoft thinks they'll win this battle. It's already lost.
    • gcnaddict, on 05/21/2008, -9/+4you mean not including the other hundreds of millions of Microsoft customers who already have Media Center?

      /truth
  • crapuccino, on 05/21/2008, -8/+43A few points ...
    - Microsoft would rather have a business relationship with big media than have happy customers.
    - Big media can be expected to indulge in more than a little douchebaggery.
    I don't know why any of this is surprising, but the uninformed masses keep sucking it up for some reason.
    • jejones, on 05/21/2008, -5/+11Big media and OEMs _are_ MS's customers; users aren't.
    • banmaster, on 05/21/2008, -10/+6Just like the even more uninformed masses (well, not masses, perhaps a small puddle) oif linux twerps still keep sucking up the FUD that the small-penised lackeys at badvista keep on producing.
      • luchid, on 05/21/2008, -5/+6Do you have any counterpoint or do you just insult whoever attacks your beloved Microsoft?
        • banmaster, on 05/22/2008, -3/+2I'm no fan of MS, but when this sort of utter ***** attempting to link MS to a completely unrelated issue (some stupid cable company using the network flag) or any of the other blatant lies and 1/2 truths that you linux lovers like to spread, you're damn right I defend them.
    • Vodd9, on 05/21/2008, -2/+1"We'll do all what you want, but just leave us alone!"
  • flatlinebb, on 05/21/2008, -17/+27Done - Windows Vista is officially boycotted in my house - as it has been since it came out. This was easy, can I help out with anything else?
    • linux4evr, on 05/21/2008, -17/+71) You can stop blaming Microsoft for all your problems and start being a man.

      2) Realize that content owners dictate the DRM terms to Microsoft, not the other way around.
      • zeabu, on 05/22/2008, -1/+32) MS is big enough to say no.
        It's not only Microsoft that needs big media. The ease in which they can make copyprotection should suffice to write that protection. For the ones that know how to crack it, nothing will stand forever. Microsoft makes an OS, they should stop there.
        • SolidSnak, on 05/22/2008, -1/+2And an Microsoft Office if they don't charge so ***** much for it because they can due to their virtual monopoly.
        • zeabu, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1SolidSnak: I was referring at what I said: "Microsoft makes an OS, they should stop there.", that was talking about the OS. I don't care if they make office, in my opinion they're allowed to make cars. But when making an OS, you'd stick to that. You deliver a kernel and a GUI, whether that's a command line, or a holographic one.
      • geehossiphats, on 05/22/2008, -1/+1He's not blaming microsoft. He's just finally figuring out the scam.
    • DarkShroud, on 05/22/2008, -2/+2This affected all Windows Media Center PCs, not just ones running Vista.
  • jonesin, on 05/21/2008, -14/+20My media center runs Kubuntu, and it's AWESOME.
  • kurupttek, on 05/21/2008, -12/+14But I love my 360 and the media extender
  • clak, on 05/21/2008, -31/+31This is why I get physically sick when people rave about the Zune. Don't these people know that Microsoft is in bed with Universal and gives them a dollar for every Zune sold? Don't these people know that Microsoft has made an agreement to consider content blocking of NBC video on Zunes? My, my, these people that love Microsoft are like the stupid women who stay with men who abuse them on a regular basis.

    Microsoft beats them with Windows Geniune Advantage and activations. They come back. Microsoft lets in viruses and malware. They come back. Microsoft makes Vista. They come back. Microsoft annoys the living hell out of them with UAC. They come back. Microsoft prevents them from uninstalling Internet Explorer. They come back. Microsoft overcharges them for Windows and Office when it has no effective competition. They come back. Microsoft gives them BSOD. They come back. Microsoft gives them RROD. They come back.

    What does Microsoft have to do before these battered women take the kids and run?
    • ZaZ2137, on 05/21/2008, -3/+5....develop software for linux?
      • HyperHacker, on 05/21/2008, -2/+6I moved to Linux to get away from MS, thanks.
    • Stormran, on 05/21/2008, -14/+9The Zune is amazing, and any content blocking they add will only block people that don't understand how to recode videos.
    • oMeSSiaHo, on 05/21/2008, -11/+22iPod touch

      1) release product then in a few months release exact same product with extra software that was available at the initial release
      2) charge early adopters for the software that new users get for free
      3)force people to use your file format and make them have to use a credit card to get album art

      Zune
      1) release product that plays many formats then release second generation with new features
      2) give new features to older product for free
      3) not be a dick hole

      Your argument is invalid anyway since microsoft doesnt block content anyway. Yeah they could, but they dont so STFU.
      • opnickc, on 05/21/2008, -3/+4"Your argument is invalid anyway since microsoft doesnt block content anyway."

        Did you read the article?

        Further, I don't recall the OP ever praising Apple, so I don't see any relevance in the iPod touch comparison. Why should Apple being evil make Microsoft's evil moot?
        • oMeSSiaHo, on 05/22/2008, -2/+3They didnt block content on the Zune, which was the basis of your argument!

          I was just pointing out how Microsoft is being generous with the Zune. I just used the touch as a counterpoint.
    • Vodd9, on 05/21/2008, -5/+6Man, I really don't understand why people are burrying you.
    • whisperedlie, on 05/21/2008, -8/+4battered women? ugh... save your drama for the soaps.
    • aelias, on 05/21/2008, -3/+3Kill users. That will be the final test. They'll write code that will just kill you.
    • MacSuxWindozSux, on 05/22/2008, -7/+8"Microsoft beats them with Windows Geniune Advantage and activations. They come back. Microsoft lets in viruses and malware. They come back. Microsoft makes Vista. They come back. Microsoft annoys the living hell out of them with UAC. They come back. Microsoft prevents them from uninstalling Internet Explorer. They come back. Microsoft overcharges them for Windows and Office when it has no effective competition. They come back. Microsoft gives them BSOD. They come back. Microsoft gives them RROD. They come back."

      Maybe because you over hype the problem. WGA was only overtly annoying to people who stole copies of windows. UAC can be turned off. Internet Explorer can't be uninstalled but can be largely replaced. Overcharges people yet Apple charges over 130$ where I live for MacOS but yeah as you say isn't an effective competition. Linux is free. BSOD haven't had one in about 7 years using XP and not at all with Vista. RROD sucks and yeah it's clear they are using substandard parts for Xbox360.
      • Jambi, on 05/22/2008, -3/+6WGA wasn't even remotely annoying to those who stole copies of Windows; they all used one of several easy ways to disable or fool it. It was annoying to those people who'd legally bought a copy of Windows when it malfunctioned and suddenly branded their copy of Windows as stolen. Bothering one's actual customers with a scheme that won't actually defeat any pirate with more than two brain cells is generally considered to be bad PR.
        • MacSuxWindozSux, on 05/22/2008, -1/+2Ah yeah that would suck.
        • doctordbx, on 05/22/2008, -2/+1Branding them as if they stole it? It takes a simple 5 minute toll free call to the call centre to activate it. They might ask why, but you tell them and it's all good.

          It's not that much of an inconvenience.
        • philhatesyou, on 05/22/2008, -1/+4doctordbx: Unless the authentication server was down all weekend, but Microsoft would never let that happen right? Right?

          Now, shut the ***** up until you know what you're talking about, douchebag.
    • jerrycurley, on 05/22/2008, -4/+2And how many dollars are you hoing Apple gives you per idiotic post that makes YOU look stupid.

      Why would I give a ***** what Microsoft does with that $1? It doesn't add to the price of the Zune one bit, since it is still the same price, or cheaper than comperable iPods.
    • iiiears, on 05/23/2008, -0/+2Things not mentioned.
      "Plays for sure" that doesn't.
      Purchased music with D.R.M. and authentication servers that will soon be shutdown.
      file format standards that change over time and become unusable.
  • pickles46, on 05/21/2008, -5/+16Canonical needs to make a linux media center lol.
    • roysorlie, on 05/21/2008, -2/+11It already has, it's called Mythbuntu.

      Alternatively, both Ubuntu and Kubuntu work well as Media Centers with a little tweaking.
    • jorisb, on 05/22/2008, -1/+6http://www.linuxmce.org/
      Linux media center, it has pretty impressive features. But fiercely ugly.
  • linux4evr, on 05/21/2008, -25/+18Microsoft has nothing to do with DRM, they don't even want it. It hurts business. But to get that business they have to cater to the content owners/providers needs. Blame the vendors and content providers that are requiring DRM for their products. Ubuntu idiots see Microsoft conspiracies everywhere they look.
    • EntropyFan, on 05/22/2008, -1/+11While you are correct, people (around here anyway) only believe the 'oh we don't like DRM too' when it is Mr. Jobs doing the talking.
      Even though he has, and continues to be, the biggest pusher of DRM on the market.
      But again, around here, you'll get "Apple has no choice. It's not their fault"
      But only for Apple.
    • JedMeister, on 05/22/2008, -3/+4Um....please explain then why NBC are the first to do this? Maybe it has something to do with the business partnership MS and NBC already have (ie MSNBC)? Oh no sorry, it just me being an "Ubuntu idiot" seeing "Microsoft conspiracies everywhere".

      For the record I use XP and unfortunately you don't have to look too far to find MS engaging in uncompetitive practices and willfully incorporating DRM whenever they can. Yes Apple have been doing it for years and they suck too, its just that Apple have a small PC market share compared to MS.
    • Tahiri, on 05/22/2008, -5/+5MS loves drm, the zune is packed full of it. cant even use it as a usb hard drive
      • DarkShroud, on 05/22/2008, -1/+5The Zune is not packed full of DRM. It does however have less DRM than the iPod does.
        • macplenty, on 05/22/2008, -3/+1How can the iPod have "more DRM" than the Zune? The iPod uses one DRM scheme called FairPlay. Microsoft uses whatever for the Zune Marketplace (although more songs from the ZM are DRM-Free). They both use one scheme. They both allow content with no drm. There is too much confusion between the iTunes store and an iPod and similarly between the Zune and the Zune Marketplace.
        • mrBitch, on 05/22/2008, -3/+3@darkshroud RE : " ... Zune is not packed full of DRM. It does however have less DRM than the iPod does. "

          Actually you are completely wrong on this point.

          iPods have NO DRM on the actual iPod hardware itself - all the DRM is handled by iTunes ( why do you think it's so easy to copy music off an iPod with all of the iTunes replacement software out there? )

          Zune, on the other hand DOES have DRM built directly into the Zune OS.

          Google it, and learn.
  • banmaster, on 05/21/2008, -16/+26Hmmm, so what does everyone think their beloved Apple would do differently eh?
    Nothing, thats right, absolutely nopthing, and yet you stupid sycophantic fanboys will somehow manage to turn a lack of ability to record on any apple device into a positive while still screeching at MS for doing the same.
    • thenewkasanova, on 05/21/2008, -8/+5Woah...passive-agressive much?
      • banmaster, on 05/21/2008, -4/+5Bah, I just woke up and stepped on my cat! I'll be in a bad mood all damn day now (as will the cat).
    • joshuagay, on 05/22/2008, -3/+7The article states, "And, don't let Apple fool you into thinking that they are the alternative to DRM and Microsoft, they, too have their own DRM schemes, and seek to control the world in their own way, from branding their DRM music player, to entrenching the world in their proprietary formats and DRM music purchasing programs."
      • jerrycurley, on 05/22/2008, -2/+2So why does the article focus on Microsoft and only include a tiny blurb about Apple?
    • soopafly, on 05/22/2008, -4/+3Bitter?
    • macplenty, on 05/22/2008, -2/+1If I do recall, when NBC wished to change the terms with regards to their content on the iTunes store, Apple said "see ya later". So, right off the bat, they did something different than what Microsoft did.

      Do I believe Apple now has the power to eliminate drm from content sold on iTunes? Yes. Does it bother me that they don't flex those muscles? Yes. Do I also believe that even they have limits as far as what content providers demand and will act when necessary (i.e. NBC)? Most definitely.
  • kingmanic, on 05/21/2008, -13/+5PS3 + 500 gig laptop HD + h.264 video = DRM lite media center!

    • FredFredrickson, on 05/21/2008, -3/+6Why do you need a PS3 for that? Your laptop should be just fine.
      • kingmanic, on 05/21/2008, -2/+7My laptop is fine, but my PS3 has a built in remote control and better upscaling.
    • HyperHacker, on 05/21/2008, -2/+2Yeah, it's not like Sony is known for supporting DRM or anything...
    • Tahiri, on 05/22/2008, -1/+3not on ps3, it has the least drm of any system
  • JasonCox, on 05/21/2008, -23/+32Stop bitching at Microsoft, they arent the ones who fraked up the broadcast flag.
    • noahsawyer, on 05/22/2008, -5/+11No, but they're the ones who implemented what that flag dictates - something they have a programming choice in.
      • MMaster23, on 05/24/2008, -0/+1That's like bitching at people who make nukes which other countries throw ...
    • MacSuxWindozSux, on 05/22/2008, -4/+2With all likelihood their version of the DRM won't work.
  • goliathlyricist, on 05/21/2008, -10/+43Apple isn't much better. Any monopoly over media will suck. If appleTV finally takes off, you're going to have the same problem with iTunes store video downloads....
    • alwaysmc2, on 05/21/2008, -1/+11You already do... ALL of the video downloads form iTunes are DRM'd. I wouldn't blame that on Apple, though, any more than I would blame any of this nonsense on Microsoft.
    • WiseWeasel, on 05/22/2008, -2/+6So digg articles that point our Apple's DRM as well. ALL DRM is bad, and ANY service or software that enforces it needs to be called out on it. The meat of the matter is that all consumers need to be aware of DRM wherever it rears its ugly head, and so yes, Apple is just as deserving of criticism for it as MS (although Apple hasn't released any kind of DVR software, so they aren't affected by this particular broadcast flag fiasco. What's your point? Apple gets bashed for DRM on digg all the time (and I always like to get in a shot at them myself). That doesn't excuse Microsoft for their behavior though.
      • jerrycurley, on 05/22/2008, -2/+3What, fanboy? *****. whenever there is talk of Apple's DRM, fanboys like you come to their defense saying that they personally saw Steve Jobs in a fistfight with the record//tv/movie studios trying to make them not insist on DRM, but that the labels ultimately won out and poor wittle old Apple was forced to include DRM against their will.
    • philhatesyou, on 05/22/2008, -3/+2Does that somehow make it okay for Microsoft to do it? No.
  • zenerdiode, on 05/21/2008, -11/+39NBC incorrectly flagged American Gladiators, so it didn't record on MCE machines. Other NBC shows like the Office and Earl recorded fine. NBC admitted the mistake and has corrected the flagging to comply with FCC rules.

    And the reason Vista has all the DRM in the first place was the broadcasters demanded it so they'll allow recording of premium content such as HBO and TNT.

    Currently, Vista is the ONLY way to get HBO, Showtime, ESPN, etc... recordings in HD. You can't do it with MythTV, SageTV, any Apple application, or any other application for that matter. Note, I'm not talking about recording unencrypted QAM or unencrypted Firewire output from your Motorola box. So if you want to watch the shows, you gotta play with the devil. In this case, it's the broadcasters, not M$.
    • clak, on 05/21/2008, -8/+6You know not what you speak. You've never heard of EyeTV? It's currently the best DVR for Macs and it records cable content in HD quality just fine.

      http://www.elgato.com/elgato/na/mainmenu/home.en.h ...
      • zenerdiode, on 05/21/2008, -0/+6No it doesn't. You should go reread my post. The EyeTV only receive CLEAR QAM which is supremely rare since Comcast and other cable companies have long wised up and now encrypt their QAM. If you are currently receiving unencrypted premium QAM, don't expect to receive in the future. Cable companies are slowly but surely upgrading their systems.

        I re-iterate: The ONLY legal way to receive HBO and other premium cable HD shows is with a CableCard 2.0 tuner. The only CableCard 2.0 tuners in existence ONLY work with Vista MCE. On top of that, it only works with OEM systems from a few manufacturers. You cannot even buy one for your home built PC.
    • Gndoab, on 05/21/2008, -3/+11yeah, but MS could have told them to shove it. They own 90% of the computer market. Who do you think would cave first?
      • zenerdiode, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5That's what I had hoped, but that's not what happened. I personally refuse to dance with the devil...be it MS or the broadcasters. Watching Sopranos wasn't worth giving up my right to record and watch whatever I want whenever I want. I just went with MythTV and enjoy watching NBC, PBS, CBS, Fox, and ABC unfettered and unlocked.
        But I did just want to point out the above point about American Gladiators and the broadcaster. It's easy jump on the bandwagon and blame Vista without really understanding the causes. I for one am actually glad that MS actually gives us this choice. I just hope people CHOOSE not to cave into the broadcasters' demands.
      • TSSaloic, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2Microsoft, the Tivo and cable company device market is bigger than the Media Center PC market. In the end it was Cable Labs who made the standard that Microsoft had to use to be allowed to use CableCards.
    • drdepoy, on 05/21/2008, -1/+3The analog HD link from the cable box to my television is not encrypted.
      • zenerdiode, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Yeah, but you can't record it...YET. Hauppage is supposed to come out with a component in --> h.264 DVR device any minute now. It's been delayed forever. Bad news #2, it doesn't work with Vista MCE...just yet. Eventually though, you'll be able to record your analog HD out and all this DRM ***** will be moot in exchange for a slight decrease in picture quality.
    • jhaks, on 05/23/2008, -0/+2Thank you for being the only sane person in this entire thread.
  • Strungout, on 05/21/2008, -11/+14From reading the article, I took that MS was following FCC regulations in addition to NBC telling them not to allow recording of certain shows. Shouldn't the blame be on NBC instead of Microsoft?
    • joshuagay, on 05/21/2008, -5/+7"Microsoft is using DRM to prevent users from saving certain television shows to their hard drive. Saving such streams is a normal feature that comes with Windows Media Center, but they have locked you out of it for NBC television shows and others. They claim that they are just following FCC regulations -- but the Second Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the FCC has no authority to make such regulations. The truth is Microsoft is just power hungry and making use of DRM wherever and whenever they can in order to secure media deals for themselves and lock in their customers."
    • geehossiphats, on 05/22/2008, -2/+2the blame is on those who choose to pay microsoft for garbage.
  • zbeast, on 05/21/2008, -12/+11There drm "feature" is the number one reason I don't use windows media edition or vista.
    I roll my own media server using torrents, vlc and xbmc.
    I would rather switch than fight.
    • geehossiphats, on 05/22/2008, -1/+3Thats sweet! Got any links or tutorials to 'roll your own media server'??
  • FredFredrickson, on 05/21/2008, -15/+23And if they didn't use DRM, movie and TV studios wouldn't sell their ***** to be used on those devices... so it's not really MS's fault. Every other company does the same anyway, but for some reason it's always a cluster-***** whenever someone mentions Microsoft. As if Apple and their Fair Play ***** is any better. Seriously.
  • socketman, on 05/21/2008, -13/+3when are they all going to learn that resistance is futile?
  • CanIGetAWitness, on 05/21/2008, -10/+7While I believe M$ can be an evil bitch, the article lost me early as I was able to record the new episode of Gladiators (seriously, one can only watch with the finger on the 30 sec skip) with Vista MCE. Who was denied the ability? Is it regional?
    Sure enough though, when M$ disables my PVR ability, I will disable M$.
    This article just turns into Open Source promo which is fine, but I need the facts of the claim.
  • jumanous, on 05/21/2008, -5/+10hmm... I'm a big fan of most microsoft stuff, but this is pretty damn lame. Definitely would go mythtv for the media centre pc after this.
    • banmaster, on 05/21/2008, -5/+5Have you actually read any of the comments like the ones 3 and 6 above this one??
    • jhaks, on 05/23/2008, -0/+1You can use whatever you want but you won't get encrypted HD content through cablecard unless those software providers and OS's implement a DRM system that will satisfy the broadcasting companies.
  • ShawnMattCraw, on 05/21/2008, -13/+7Ok you idiots if Microsoft could remove DRM they would. Why would they DRM tv shows if they didnt have to? Think about it. There is no advantage, the only reason they do is because of legal troubles. Not that great of a business plan to have billions of dollars in lawsuits just so a couple of people who complain about DRM on there recorded shows can watch them.
    • clak, on 05/21/2008, -5/+8There's no advantage to Windows Genuine Advantage and Microsoft still promotes it.
      • ShawnMattCraw, on 05/21/2008, -2/+5It stops people from getting updates for a operating system that they didn't pay for. Is that so hard to understand?
        edit: From looking at your profile your a mac fanboy so there is no reasoning then.
        • zeabu, on 05/22/2008, -3/+4There's no advantage to Windows Genuine Advantage. It nags paying customers, and can't touch it's target group.
        • ShawnMattCraw, on 05/22/2008, -3/+2Ok so it has a disadvantage. It doesn't even matter the comment was on DRM of recorded tv shows and how the article blames Microsoft and not the corporate ***** who request there shows to be DRM'ed and ms has to abide or be screwed.
        • djgreedo, on 05/22/2008, -3/+2WGA doesn't nag paying customers. There was a one-off issue where some customers were inconvenienced (but nobody I know was affected by it). And it is a trivial matter to remove that inconvenience.

          However, I do know one person who bought a legitimate copy of Windows because of the WGA notification. This has no doubt happened many times, leading to many sales for Microsoft from people who didn't know their software was pirated or who just gave up on piracy because it became too hard.

          You really need to stop believing the hype you read on Digg. WGA doesn't bother people if their OS is legitimate. It's a copy protection device, and no different from copy protection in console games, registration keys for software, etc.
        • ShawnMattCraw, on 05/22/2008, -2/+1Again it was about drm not genuine so even if you tryed to help I don't like fanboys of either company.
  • AlmtyBob, on 05/21/2008, -3/+14Anyone else stop reading after the horrible usage of "literally"?
    • userperson, on 05/21/2008, -1/+4I didn't, but it made me cringe and want to beat them to death.
    • geobay, on 05/21/2008, -0/+7I literally punched my monitor.
    • akatherder, on 05/21/2008, -0/+8I literally flew off the handle when I read that.
  • Troy64, on 05/21/2008, -5/+5I don't see what the problem is can't you just torrent the shows. Besides if you do that you don't have those pesky commercials.
    • DickBreath, on 05/21/2008, -2/+6You can't torrent the shows if somebody, somewhere isn't able to record it.
      • Troy64, on 05/22/2008, -2/+3Hopefully somewhere someone isn't using Microsoft.
        • DarkShroud, on 05/22/2008, -2/+2Certain shows can only be recorded using the MCE software (Tivo & other PVRs not with standing) due to the "DRM" placed in the broadcast streams by the providers.

          When Apple finally starts adding Blu-ray they'll have to add HDCP DRM support as well.
  • lukasmack, on 05/21/2008, -6/+5badvista.fsf.org

    lol
  • gsxrmike04, on 05/21/2008, -12/+12i hate microsoft
    • djgreedo, on 05/22/2008, -5/+5What an intelligent and well thought out remark. I suppose you don't actually have any particular reason for hating a company. You really need to stop thinking religiously about software/hardware. If something isn't for you, choose something that IS for you and ignore the rest.

      On the flip side I like Microsoft because their software is great and my Zune is absolutely awesome (and it's only the first generation model).
      • knopper67, on 05/22/2008, -3/+3It's only a religion if you try to convert people...

        That's just his opinion...which I happen to agree with.
        • bry5an, on 05/22/2008, -3/+1djgreedo wasn't trying to convert anyone. He simply said that OP's comment wasn't "well thought out." I hear a lot of uninformed people gripe about Microsoft everyday, and it's silly to hear vague comments like, "I hate Microsoft."

          Well, if you hate Microsoft then please.. do go on. I'd like to hear facts / opinions in what they're doing wrong. =p
  • TheZorch, on 05/21/2008, -8/+19There are two ways to fix this:

    1. Use an alternative to Windows Media Center. MediaPortal is free, has all of the same features, but you'll need to install codecs so it doesn't use the system default which won't get rid of the Broadcast Flag issues.

    2. Using MythTV is the ONLY way to ensure you don't run into Broadcast Flag speed bumps, but this requires Linux so you poor deluded "a PC must only run Windows" fools will have to suffer with WMC and its Broadcast Flag support or embrace an alternative which I listed above.

    The point here is that Windows isn't exactly "ready for the desktop" either and the more things like this that keep popping up sticking with Linux is starting to look more and more attractive. So, would you rather have to learn a whole new OS without restrictions or suffer using an OS which keeps getting more and more restrictive as times goes by. I don't know, maybe some of you Windows people are masochists or something.
    • Gndoab, on 05/21/2008, -6/+6With windows, I have 3d acceleration, 5.1 sound, and a working wireless card.
      with linux, I have widescreen support (although 3d acceleration is buggy), 2.0 sound, and no wireless.

      I don't have to go through editing archaic configuration files that I don't understand in order to get these things to work. They just work. Straight out of the box.

      Once linux can do that I'll switch.
    • Zeush8su, on 05/21/2008, -3/+5No..some of us "Windows people" are gamers. When Linux has FULL native support for all the great new and old games come talk to me.
      • carlosos, on 05/22/2008, -3/+4Please tell me when Windows will support all the old games...
        I need Windows 9x to run Settlers 3 :(
        • DarkShroud, on 05/22/2008, -2/+1It should, if not DOS Box runs on Vista just fine. And unlike WINE it DOS Box works 100%.
        • Batiu-Drami, on 06/24/2008, -0/+1hey dude,
          patching settlers III to 1.60 [ftp://ftp.bluebyte.com/updates/s3old160.exe]
          then overwriting the .exe with [ftp://ftp.bluebyte.com/updates/s3.exe]
          will let Settlers III run on XP/Vista :)
  • flibblesan, on 05/21/2008, -13/+6Oh man, they are so full of ***** on this website. There is nothing wrong with Vista.
    • TheZorch, on 05/21/2008, -5/+5You poor deluded fool. There is plenty wrong with Vista. Its BETA ware that was rushed to market so some exec could collect on his sign-on bonus with Amazon.com. Its weighed down with multiple layers of DRM which constant probe ports of all possible avenues of piracy, thus taking up CPU cycles and slowing down the OS. Its version of Direct X is broken, backward compatibility isn't 100% like previous version, and instead of native OpenGL it does very BAD OpenGL emulation. Video and Audio playback is mediocre unless you have a rig with high stats, and the OS's own system requirement are woefully inadequate. This is by far M$'s worst OS yet, its another Windows ME..
      • hwy9nightkid, on 05/21/2008, -1/+5To be fair, it's also the vendors drivers that haven't quite caught up yet..
      • kineticarl, on 05/21/2008, -1/+5In my experience, it's solid on two the two machines I've installed it on, and haven't noticed anything of the magnitude of which you speak. I certainly wouldn't call it betaware. I won't be returning to xp. And if you read many comments here on digg, there are lots of people who have had the same experience. There are also many people who went back to xp, but there is definitely not a universal contempt for Vista. Vista is no ME, not by a long shot. Oh, and you will be assimilated, just like when you didn't want to upgrade from NT/2000.
      • flibblesan, on 05/21/2008, -2/+4You are so incredibly wrong, and I guess you have never used Vista in your life.

        1) I have never encountered DRM on Vista (or, if I have then I wasn't aware of it.. as it just worked).
        2) Nothing runs on the system checking for piracy, so I think you lying.
        3) My CPU resources are minimal. Unless I am playing a game.
        4) All the games I have tried from the past 5 years have worked fine. Define 'broken'?
        5) It has OpenGL available, and is not an emulation as you call it.
        6) Video and audio playback are perfectly fine on my desktop, laptop and 3 year old HP. Problems are always caused by bad drivers.
        7) System requirements are not inadequate. It will happily run on a P4 with 512mb of ram fine. Obviously the more you can give it, the better the experience (which is the same for any OS).
        8) It's hardly 'another Windows ME'.

        You have proved that you know nothing about Vista. So, who is the deluded fool?
  • TheG2, on 05/21/2008, -14/+9More FSF crap..excellent.

    Microsoft added DRM in order to get license agreements, not because they were out to piss off customers. In order to get those licenses, the license holders required that Microsoft put in some form of copy protection (DRM).
    • TheZorch, on 05/21/2008, -9/+4Its groups like the FSF and the EFF which trying to protect ungrateful asshats like you from greedy corporations which force companies like Microsoft to use DRM, and don't try to place M$ on some high and mighty pedestal as if they didn't do this on purpose and are blameless. Need I remind you that this is the same company which shoved OOXML down the ISO's throat, bribed officials, and fixed hearings so that they would win no matter what. Don't you ***** DARE try to say they are without blame because all of us the truth and you're lies are meaningless!
      • ratbear, on 05/21/2008, -1/+8God damn I hate the FSF.....a bunch of egotistical geeks that think proprietary software is tantamount to human slavery. One day I will laugh when no one gives a ***** about freaking software "freedoms", as they rightfully shouldn't. I mean cmon, listen to yourselves. We are talking about software for ***** sake. Let's just say it's not the most prominent of social ills.
    • CarzorStelatis, on 05/24/2008, -0/+1So if Microsoft said "you will not be able to sell downloads to people using Windows if you insist on DRM" the content companies would have said "OK, we'll just sell to people with Macs"?
  • deviationer, on 05/21/2008, -7/+11who the ***** uses windows media center anyways?

    there are better alternatives, Beyond TV, SageTV, MythTV etc..
    • alienunknown, on 05/21/2008, -4/+2Yea. I didn't even know that windows media center was still around lol. I remember a couple of people using it years ago but nothing in the last year...
    • chriskeyes, on 05/23/2008, -0/+2Uh, I use WMC. So do many of my friends.
    • quikboy, on 05/23/2008, -0/+2I use Windows Media Center all the time. And I never faced one of these content flags. As soon as I actually see one, I'll write several stern letter to the broadcasters that enable this flag, and get my friends to boycott that show.

      MS is just the middleman here. They don't want to have to worry about updating so many machines if the FCC ever did make it mandatory someday.
  • Deepmist, on 05/21/2008, -7/+2I like Windows Media Center Interface and haven't had any trouble recording anything I want with it, I built one in my parents living room and they love it. Ofcourse if they start blocking programs it's going to be replaced for good.
  • oMeSSiaHo, on 05/21/2008, -9/+9Is this a whole website dedicated against Vista?! I mean Vista isnt the best OS (is there really a "best" OS?) but this level of dedication is kinda sad.
  • Gndoab, on 05/21/2008, -7/+8Once Linux (read: Ubuntu, OpenSuse, Mint, Kubuntu, ect) can run on my hardware without having to go through hours of editing random configuration files, with all the functionality I get out of windows, I'll switch.

    This round of ubuntu almost did it. No video card problems, and my sound card was recognized. But getting 2.0 out of a 5.1 setup is like a slap to the face. Also, having a broadcom wireless NIC spells certain death for wireless networking.

    Maybe next release.
    • HyperHacker, on 05/21/2008, -4/+3Yep, this is precisely why I stuck with Windows for so long. Linux is still severely lacking in hardware support. Unfortunately some vendors *cough*ATI*cough* refuse to do so much as give out the specs necessary to write drivers, otherwise the problem would probably be solved practically overnight.

      This is the big problem with hardware DRM schemes like HDCP, BTW - open-source drivers would make it too easy to defeat the security, which not only means the specs remain closed, but also potentially raises DMCA-related issues trying to reverse-engineer the devices.
    • carlosos, on 05/22/2008, -2/+2It all depends on the hardware you have. I did have much fewer problems with my PC under Linux than with Windows until I bought a creative sound card which only works with Windows XP. I love the sound card and creative did promise Linux drivers but you can get forget those. No more creative products for me until they start supporting more operation systems. (full Vista support would be a start)
  • tumbler360, on 05/21/2008, -4/+9This DRM stuff is ridiculous.

    As long as my tivo keeps recording everything I tell it to I'll be happy as a clam. If they get on board with this BS I guess I'll just have to stop watching Tv because I'm never going back. NEVER EVER GOING BACK TO LIVE TV.
    • RedHerringHack, on 05/22/2008, -3/+1Yep. Never going back. NEVER.
    • geehossiphats, on 05/22/2008, -2/+1heh.. live TV is sooooo yesterday!
    • sammykeyes, on 05/23/2008, -0/+2Uh, Tivo does have a broadcasting flag, though not quite as serious as WMC. A broadcaster can flag their show, and you can only view it within 24 hours.

      NOT a lie here. It's quite true.
  • crackah, on 05/21/2008, -3/+7Am I right in that Apple pcs cannot play Blue Ray because they dont have DRM?
    • djgreedo, on 05/22/2008, -2/+2No device can (legally) play commercial Blu-ray discs without the relevant DRM capability. As far as I know, Windows Vista is the only OS that can play Blu-ray legally at this point, but I could be mistaken. I don't find Blu-ray interesting, and I only have a 720p TV.
    • geehossiphats, on 05/22/2008, -2/+1no it's because of corporate greed.
  • Zeush8su, on 05/21/2008, -3/+5Who still watches American Gladiators? Let alone record it.
  • sydsampat, on 05/21/2008, -6/+1That was kinda funny. ahaha.. mmm..ahahahaha
  • iDe1337, on 05/21/2008, -7/+13Why Microsoft? I know MS sucks, but they are actually pro-non-DRM. The Zune marketplace is about 3/4 non-DRM songs. Apple is the DRM enemy. And now back to the media center issue: It's okay if MS agrees with the proposed flag codes. It's not okay when a company (like NBC) falsely flags a show.
    • Atomic1fire, on 05/21/2008, -4/+1Don't you mean DReneMy
    • Tahiri, on 05/22/2008, -6/+4the zune is chock full of drm. why cant i use it as a usb harddrive ffs?
      • lacronicus, on 05/22/2008, -2/+5How is that DRM? The only DRM on the zune is the 3 play limit, which is necessary to keep the thing from turning into a full-fledged file sharing device.
      • curtlee2002, on 05/22/2008, -2/+1You can use it as a usb harddrive, in GNU/Linux.
  • harlowsmonkeys, on 05/21/2008, -3/+4They say it takes a lot of work to implement the broadcast flag in a DVR. What's hard about "if ( header.bcflag != 0 ) { return ERR_NOT_ALLOWED; }"?

    It's not a good idea, and it is not nice, but it is almost certainly technically trivial.
    • MacSuxWindozSux, on 05/22/2008, -3/+3In Vista it takes multiple times the CPU and memory resources trying to encrypt and obscure the video signal to the screen.

      Then if you don't have a solid encrypted pathway, your own computer betrays you and shows the video at marginally better than DVD levels.
      • DarkShroud, on 05/22/2008, -2/+1Someone still believe the anti-Vista FUD.
        • phaedrusiszen, on 05/25/2008, -0/+0This is why IQ tests should be administered before someone is allowed to own a computer.
          This is not a comment on the ins-and-outs of Vista.
          If somehow you think that Vista allows Blu-ray or HD-DVD videos to be played at native resolution through Protected Video Path Output Protection Management up to and including a HDCP monitor, you're grossly ignorant.
  • MMaster23, on 05/21/2008, -14/+7Lol .. talk about bashing ...

    Microsoft Meda Center is just following the FCC standards/rules. It's NBC who was wrong with turning the flag on.
    They said they were sorry. FSF should really keep their DAMN mouths shut if they don't know the whole story.

    Even if MS plays by the rules, hippies cry.
    Windows MCE still is one of the best media players out there. I have 3 dedicated Windows Vista Media Centers here (excluding Xbox360's) and they work PERFECTLY. DRM doesn't bother me at all as I ain't a pirate.

    Also I'm having to problem watching downloaded episodes from torrents/usenet .. it's not like MCE blocks them. Microsoft (just like Apple) are just making digital entertainment possible... DRM isn't bad .. you just have to obey a FEW minute rules.
    • gudnbluts, on 05/21/2008, -2/+3"DRM doesn't bother me at all as I ain't a pirate"

      I'm not a pirate either. I've lived in two countries, and my perfectly legal DVDs have different region codes. I can't play half of them on Vista because of this.

      "Also I'm having [no] problem watching downloaded episodes from torrents/usenet "

      Oh, and you are a pirate.
      • MMaster23, on 05/21/2008, -2/+4No because I legally bought the content I downloaded from the internets.
        And by I'm not a pirate .. I mean I don't upload copyright protected media.

        (Ok .. a bit with torrents .. but hardly use torrents anymore these days ;))

        The point was MCE can play pirated media, normal media as well as DRM media.. MCE isn't evil...
      • carlosos, on 05/22/2008, -1/+2That has nothing to do with Vista or Windows at all. That has something to do with the movie studies using region codes. If you find a DVD player for your PC that doesn't look at the region codes than you will have no problem (very old ones). It is a hardware problem and not a software one.

        I have German DVD drive in my PC (while living in the USA) and I have to "get around" the region code problem whenever I want to play a DVD that I bought or rented. I could change the region of the drive but than none of my German DVDs would work and I only have this one German drive in the house.
        • gudnbluts, on 05/22/2008, -1/+1Mine's a laptop, so it's not as simple to replace the DVD drive. I've done it before, but it always ends up looking like it doesn't belong, also Laptop DVD writers are very expensive compared to desktop ones. Besides, doesn't Vista bitch and moan about region free DVD players? My choices seem to be (a) spend even more money and buy anyDVD for Vista, (b) go back to XP and use DVDRegionKiller or (c) shove Linux on it.
    • HyperHacker, on 05/21/2008, -2/+2Until those rules prevent you from doing perfectly legitimate things (backup copies, anyone?) and require expensive hardware upgrades (hello, HDCP) despite not being a pirate.
      • MMaster23, on 05/21/2008, -2/+2You can perfectly make backup copies of Media Center recorded content. Not a problem...
        Copy them over the network to other PC's, mobile devices and DVDs .. all works perfectly...

        Not being able to copy DVD's or Blu-Ray's due to CSS and HDCP isn't Microsoft's fault..
    • smotpoker1, on 05/22/2008, -2/+4You are dumber than a box of rocks if you like DRM media center from microsux.Why don't yopu go kiss bill's ass and STFU.
    • Tahiri, on 05/22/2008, -2/+3actually the point is they arent following fcc rules. this rule was shot down by the fcc. ms made the rule up
      • lacronicus, on 05/22/2008, -0/+4No, the FCC did make the rule, but the Supreme Court later said they weren't allowed to. MS had already implemented the function, and since pay-per-view content required it anyway, they left it in.
  • hwy9nightkid, on 05/21/2008, -3/+9I will never give in to DRM, I rockboxed my Toshiba MP3 player to run without it. I LOVE IT!!

    refuse to be contained!
    • djgreedo, on 05/22/2008, -6/+0You have an MP3 player that can't run without DRM unless you replace the firmware? I find that hard to believe. Even iPods, the DRM kings of the MP3 market, can be used without DRM as long as YOU make the choice to not purchase content with DRM.
  • Fetching more discussions...
    Show 51 - 84 of 84 discussions
  •  

    Login or register to add a comment

    Create a new account or login to join in the conversation on Digg. You'll also be able to Digg stories to help promote things you like.


© Digg Inc. 2008 — Content posted by Digg users is dedicated to the public domain.
DIGG, DIGG IT, DUGG, DIGG THIS, Digg graphics, logos, designs, page headers, button icons, scripts, and other service names are the trademarks of Digg Inc.