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Pandora On the Verge of Closing Shop

readwriteweb.com — Pandora is an internet radio service that allows you to create your own radio station based on songs and artists that you like. Pandora on the iPhone is one of the best applications for streaming music and finding new tunes. So, what will the service's 1 million plus users do if Pandora pulls its own plug?

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  • jaydubnb, on 08/17/2008, -22/+74I'm not much of a Pandora fan - Slacker is my personal web radio of choice - but it's a bit sad to see them on hard times due to the RIAA. I find it odd that Pandora is taking such a hard hit while Slacker is thriving...its second music player was recently revealed by Engadget. Maybe add support is the answer?
    • jigga, on 08/17/2008, -3/+41I tried Slacker, and while it was similar to Pandora, the ads drove me away. Sure I could pay the fee to remove Slacker's ads, but why should I when Pandora doesn't include them.

      It also seemed like Pandora's selection of my music tastes were much more diverse which I really like. I've found a lot of great artists I would have know about before just by using Pandora.
      • rootnik, on 08/17/2008, -4/+15I hear 1 or 2 commercials an hour... none of them are any longer than 30 seconds. Not a huge price to pay.
      • Guyoni, on 08/17/2008, -3/+41Everyone should contact the artists they found out about through Pandora, and let them know that you would never have heard of their music without it, let them know that the death of a valuable and innovative music service is the silencing of their voices.
      • kidcodea, on 08/18/2008, -1/+4Pandora is the only website that Works for me.
    • xSledgewick, on 08/17/2008, -15/+6Meh. "So, what will the service's 1 million plus users do if Pandora pulls its own plug?"

      Migrate to Last.fm. ;)
      • hiro, on 08/17/2008, -5/+19Not really a worthy second place to Pandora. Since the ending of the service to the UK I've been using Last FM and it really seems to have no idea of what is "similar" in the uncanny way that Pandora did. A big loss, but happened over here a while ago
      • Blandyman, on 08/17/2008, -3/+7Meh is the most annoying word on the internet. Shut up.
    • docbells, on 08/18/2008, -3/+7Maybe someone like Apple buying them is the answer since it is one of the most popular iphone apps
      • Daniel591992, on 08/18/2008, -0/+4Yeah, keep dreaming..
      • arah91, on 08/18/2008, -1/+3Apple buying stuff is never the answer for the end consumer it maybe the answer for pandora and i like them enough i would like to see them do well but still apple has a unique way of bastardizing things.
    • quaunaut, on 08/18/2008, -2/+4Huh, I really like Slacker. Thanks for the recommendation.
      • JoeF8577, on 08/18/2008, -1/+1slacker is buggy, and full of ads. SUCKS BALLZZ!!
    • whywait, on 08/18/2008, -5/+2mines this thing called bittorrent. perhaps u've heard of it.
    • webtweakers, on 08/18/2008, -0/+3This is what I get on Slacker:

      "We're Sorry
      Slacker Personal Radio
      is not available in your area.
      Unfortunately, Slacker Personal Radio is currently only available in the United States. While we are working to extend our licenses to other parts of the world, at this time we can only play music to our listeners within the United States."

      Pandora gives me something similar...

      Nice way to go...
    • unwiseone, on 08/19/2008, -0/+1Wow, Slacker really is cool. Thanks.
      • LordHelmet, on 08/19/2008, -0/+1Too bad there is no Mac client, I like PandoraBoy.
    • kokoshka, on 08/20/2008, -0/+1i went to slacker, but it started playing madonna at me :(
  • lelapin, on 08/17/2008, -1/+113For Out of the USA listeneers this won't make any difference, Euro-IP addresses would be barred even, since Pandora was no more accessible.
    This is sad and, to me, only reflects the narrow minded and short term views of those supposedly defending copyrights whereas working on cutting deals with online media would have been more productive. Their loss.
    • chedabob, on 08/17/2008, -2/+23They should release their database and see if the likes of TPB won't take up the reins from there.

      It's a shame that something really good is being hampered by the misdirected hatred of the RIAA. They should be concentrating on other areas where they are "losing" revenue, rather than bullying smaller providers.
      • therightclique, on 08/17/2008, -5/+1Trade Paperback?
      • arah91, on 08/18/2008, -0/+4And not to mention isn't the whole point of pandora to help you find NEW music to buy i mean i never would buy music any how but i do know some people who bought songs thy never would of heard of if it had not been for them
      • fudged71, on 08/18/2008, -2/+1sorry, I posted a comment without reading your first. I put a bit more detail in:
        http://digg.com/music/Pandora_On_the_Verge_of_Clos ...
    • acmethunder, on 08/17/2008, -2/+22It does make a difference out of the US. We are still waiting to get Pandora back (legally) in Canada

      Before it was blocked in Canada, I found many new artists that I would never have found at the music store. And yes I did buy legal copies of all the music I liked.

      Pandora led me to support artists I (and others) found interesting.
    • SlipperyFox, on 08/17/2008, -1/+12That's exactly how I feel acmethunder... Pandora was a tool for me to explore the music universe. Pandora in reality is like free advertisement for them. The way its set up would make it worthless to try to copy/record from it. Its all a pro for the music business.
    • drakenlot, on 08/18/2008, -0/+5I loved Pandora before it was barred from outside the us, and i still went there through proxies to use it.

      But this really sucks.
    • Gamer2k4, on 08/18/2008, -0/+3"This is sad and, to me, only reflects the narrow minded and short term views of those supposedly defending copyrights whereas working on cutting deals with online media would have been more productive. Their loss."

      Tell me about it. I've bought eight CDs of bands that I wouldn't have heard about except for Pandora. Not only did Pandora allow me to hear music that I probably wouldn't have otherwise, but it generated revenue for those bands that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise. It's too bad that the RIAA thinks that hearing a song one time for free means that you'll never buy anything from that band ever again.
    • freqk, on 08/18/2008, -0/+2I just social engineered myself into getting unbanned here in Canada.
  • HottisHiatus, on 08/17/2008, -5/+362This sucks
    • sn0wmis3r, on 08/17/2008, -2/+24agreed, i love pandora, especially the iphone app.
    • linagee, on 08/17/2008, -6/+16Music will be lost forever if they do this.
    • Jauladeoro, on 08/27/2008, -1/+10I know - I have discovered so many songs/musicians that otherwise I never would have heard of and that I now LOVE because of Pandora. :*(
    • BrogMaN, on 08/17/2008, -0/+9Truly weak sauce. Today I started my day the same way I always do: Get out of bed, turn on my computer, connect to my neighbors' unprotected wireless router, hop on Firefox, log onto Pandora and start listening to a station, open a new tab, check my email, then start browsing digg. Little did I know that one of the top stories would spell my doom. My whole schedule will be thrown into complete disarray if i lose Pandora! And I just made a new station today too!
    • Enche, on 08/18/2008, -5/+1so's your face
    • MrBabyFan, on 08/18/2008, -1/+1This blows
    • JoeF8577, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1what will happen with the genome project?
  • agsinger, on 08/17/2008, -16/+106they should just play non RIAA music...
    • RadiatedAnt, on 08/17/2008, -37/+17ohh you mean crap.
      • DivisibleByZero, on 08/17/2008, -14/+6Sadly you're right. Problem won't get solved until more good musicians move to better labels.
      • Ryosen, on 08/17/2008, -10/+16Yeah, sorry, RadiatedAnt. They can't all be Brittany Spears and the Backstreet Boys.
      • OpaqueMurdock, on 08/17/2008, -5/+11Maybe you need to stop listening to what you are told to listen to. Marketing, viral and otherwise has increasingly told people what is and is not "crap" over the years. And at the same time that many people complain about the extravagant cost of music they also would NEVER support something that was recorded using simple methods... they would however buy (or download) something that was recorded with a team of very expensive producers, sound engineers, extra studio musicians, editors, digital mastering experts... and then made to SOUND like it was recorded in a garage on a crappy mic. (just the best sounding garage in the whole world and the best sounding "crapy mic ever made with a magic super low signal to noise ratio.)

        The only reason most people consume the music that the majors put out is because THAT music is fimiliar... its a tribal responce, you like the songs you KNOW. so all they have to do is get it played in a damn TV show or even on a commercial or just in puplic... hell maybe that cute girl you talked to last week who said she liked the band was paid to say that to 50 people a night...

        You don't think thats going on? an average song used to get $350,000 for "independent promoters" like 15 years ago in order to get it on the radio... god knows what that number is like now and since radio is dead... they likely spend that money in other "interesting ways".

        You like what they tell you to like. Whether you know it or not. Your attitude towards independent music is EXACTLY the attitude they want you to have... for all I know you could actually be a record company stooge, because the one thing that would be WORSE than piracy, would be for their customers to think for themselves and find music they liked directly.

        Notice the quality of the bands of the last decade getting really good do ya? So go ahead, keep being a sucker... hows that working out for you?
      • OpaqueMurdock, on 08/17/2008, -4/+7Eh, maybe you are just a pandora user who is tired of the fact that there is a lot of poor quality music on the service, I'm sure there is... sorry if I assumed more about your statement than I should have. Not that I think your right in saying that, just that I sorta went off, clearly it was not just directed at you but the over all poor attitude people seem have towards independents in the last few years.
      • agsinger, on 08/17/2008, -1/+6actually just the opposite
      • Blandyman, on 08/17/2008, -3/+4OpaqueMurdock:

        Maybe you're just an elitist dick who doesn't realize that most "indie" music is also mostly music "people don't like."

        Yes, there's plenty of hidden gems out there, but the reason people like record label music more, is because those people were signed because they have talent...

        Indie labels sign anyone willing to "work for free 'til that first album makes money, k?"

        Signed,
        A singer/guitarist from an indie band.
      • OpaqueMurdock, on 08/18/2008, -0/+2Blandyman,

        Firstly, I said nothing about "Indie labels" if you still "sign a recording contract" with a small label that is doing nothing more for you then getting the recording done and then and offers little or nothing in the way of promotion, then I don't believe that does much for you in this day and age.

        I was referring to true independents, People that ARE their own record companies, and yes finding good music amongst them is something that takes time and effort. But don't you think it would be worth that effort in order to end the power hold that the media companies have on what we listen to? All I am advocating is for more people to seek out music on their own terms. I hardly see that as "elitist".

        You strike me as someone starting down the road in the music business and I am admittedly someone that has been around for a long while and as such I am very jaded, so I hesitate to poison you with my "war stories". If you are hopeful and have talent you could do well and I certainly wish you well. I did pretty good myself and I can tell you, you don't HAVE to play the game the old way if you don't want... you just have to have the guts to do it differently.

        And you have to keep reminding people that they can think for themselves.

        I'm sorry if I came off strong to you, I am just passionate.

        Signed,
        A fellow vocalist/lyricist/composer/instrumentalist from an independent band.


      • RadiatedAnt, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1If anything, all I listen to is underground hip hop and trip hop with a mix of progressive music... I was just stating that anyone who makes a hit unevitably goes with a record label and as sad as the riaa having control over the record labels, your not left with the broad range you once had. Stop assuming I listen to the trite that plays on the radio.
      • OpaqueMurdock, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1Well, as you read, I was hoping there was another explanation for your brash statment... still, you should be more cautious to actually say what you mean. Otherwise it leaves it open for people to interpret your intentions and in this case the simplest explanation was that you simply thought all independent music (non RIAA influenced, thus not signed or on a very small label) sucked.

        Occam's razor and all that...
    • Vanzetti, on 08/17/2008, -3/+159YES! I use pandora to find artists I would normally never hear about. Many times this has resulted in my buying an album. If they are loosing money for ***** pop music then just take it off!
      • Jaydamis, on 08/17/2008, -2/+13Same here - Pandora is just my tool to find stuff that isnt violently thrown in your face. Gimme some choice :/
      • bdfariello, on 08/17/2008, -0/+12I've bought two CDs (since I heard of Pandora )of bands I never would have heard of otherwise, and was just reminded today of another band I loved years ago and haven't heard recently. Pandora helps the music industry, if anything.
      • KillerFuzzball, on 08/18/2008, -1/+3Man, I wish I could digg this twice.
      • compulsive1, on 08/18/2008, -0/+4In the last two years or so I bought maybe 30 or 40 CDs pretty much exclusively based on tunes heard on Pandora. Pandora is the best thing to happen to labels- it gets the most relevant music to the people in the most direct way- including Amazon link to the product! Labels should step up and help Pandora stay in business- without ***** with the music selections of course.
    • bdbr, on 08/17/2008, -2/+47The way the rules are written, they have to pay SoundExchange no matter if its an RIAA label or not. They can make their own contractual agreements with the labels to bypass that, or agencies representing multiple indie labels. This could also re-open the opportunity to play outside the US.

      I don't go to Pandora looking for RIAA music anyway.
      • DeathfireD, on 08/17/2008, -0/+4Ya, whoever came up with that law sucks. It's single handedly killing legitimate services.
      • KelticKal, on 08/17/2008, -0/+2Actually, SoundExchange cannot force internet radio stations to pay royalties for independent artists performing public domain music. The "compulsory" license that they talk about simply means that if a radio station pays the royalty, the copyright holder cannot sue when the track being played. Its the same idea as with mechanical licenses for music scores. Independent artists can wave the royalty fees which in the long run may actually be a boon for unsigned bands.
      • xxgracefallenxx, on 08/18/2008, -3/+1actually it doesn't matter where the music is streaming from, it matters where it's listened to. so moving outside the us wouldn't help anyhing.
      • Lunarsight, on 08/18/2008, -1/+3Speaking as an independent musician, I want to sue SoundExchange for trying to collect royalties on my behalf.
        I never asked for them to represent me.

        I think a lot of independent artists could care less about Internet radio royalties. They realize the radio exposure in itself is its own reward.

        As far as the Copyright Royalty Board goes, I emailed them today and told them to buy themselves a clue instead of being a stupid shill for whatever SoundExchange tells them.

        Here is the contact form on their website:

        http://www.loc.gov/crb/contact/

        There would have been a time that I would have encouraged people to rationally state their case in a polite letter, but at this point in the game, I'm totally okay with people telling the Copyright Royalty Board to go F themselves. Just tell them something. Let's swamp their mailbox.
      • OpaqueMurdock, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1I am with you Lunarssight, royalties for "airplay" have never been something I have ever been concerned with. Now its a different world and the math is freaky... but Pandora is providing a service that outweighs any desire I would have to collect small fees in the short term.

        Hard work by talented people SHOULD be compensated... but not at the cost of loosing such a valuable resource that has made so much effort to connect listeners directly to artists... which is the way it should be.

        In the end it comes down to our culture and our decreasing respect art, Services like Pandora should not be struggling in my opinion. If most people WANTED to discover new music on their own they would gladly support tools like this one with hard cash. Unfortunately, too many would rather passively let the marketing machines of the old style music industry still tell them what is "cool". Most are not even aware that they are doing it.

        If Pandora goes away I will feel very guilty that I didn't get more involved in using, supporting and promoting it. I hope its not to late.
    • CaptainJapan, on 08/17/2008, -14/+14………………………..,-~*’`¯lllllll`*~,……………………………………
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  • louiegirl1, on 08/17/2008, -16/+7epic failure
  • CorneliusStump, on 08/17/2008, -91/+7Well if you guys weren't thieves you wouldn't have this problem. I'm a good citizen however, I buy CDs.
    • jls33fsls, on 08/17/2008, -2/+97Thieves? There is nothing illegal about listening to Pandora.
    • Vanzetti, on 08/17/2008, -6/+49I buy CDs too. Pandora is a streaming radio service. I am not downloading albums.

      Also you are kinda an idiot paying for overpriced CDs. Digital downloads rarely cost over 10 bucks.
      • tehbored, on 08/17/2008, -9/+4To be fair, CD's offer better sound quality.
      • MrWhite7, on 08/18/2008, -0/+2Digital downloads also rarely convey the licensed usage conveyed in physical media.
    • DanQuist, on 08/17/2008, -4/+45Have you ever listened to the radio in your car? It's the same ******* thing you thief!
    • TremorX, on 08/17/2008, -16/+4He's talking about the MP3 "revolution" as it were. When people started acting as though they were entitled to free music, the RIAA responded. Had piracy stayed underground where it belonged, stuff like this would probably have gotten a pass. Now EVERY little thing sends them frothing at the mouth to sue.
      • arah91, on 08/18/2008, -1/+1Ya and thy said the same thing about the printing press. Seriously thy did look it up.
    • enantiodromia, on 08/17/2008, -1/+7i hadn't bought music for a long time until Pandora showed me good stuff i didnt know about. now, i buy through Pandora.
      • therightclique, on 08/17/2008, -0/+2wait.. you can buy through pandora? i had no idea and i've been using it for probably 9 months. i usually hear something i like and buy it through itunes.
      • enantiodromia, on 08/17/2008, -0/+2therightclique,

        mouse over song, Menu, Buy. and it links to iTunes if you like.
    • butermilksquash, on 08/17/2008, -1/+1Pandora is radio you moron.
    • Enche, on 08/18/2008, -1/+2They'll never learn Cronilieus.
      We will have to be the next hitler and take over!
  • jls33fsls, on 08/17/2008, -18/+167Damn government ruining everything that is innovative and good...
    • aznhomig, on 08/17/2008, -12/+33'Cept it's not the Government, but a private agency of buffoons known as the "RIAA".
      • skinnyskittles, on 08/17/2008, -3/+22government grants copyrights
      • paraforce, on 08/17/2008, -3/+41'Cept they're sleeping together.
      • sodade, on 08/17/2008, -2/+13...that have corrupted our government.
      • skinnyskittles, on 08/17/2008, -11/+2@sodade
        actually I think the government has corrupted them
      • geoboy, on 08/17/2008, -2/+19The government is the only thing protecting the RIAA's outdated business model.
    • Jbaker4981, on 08/17/2008, -2/+9I totally agree with you. I just found this service last week and have fallen in love with it. Now they are going to take it away. God Dammit!
    • dn11, on 08/17/2008, -6/+3yeah man, like the internet...... damn government funding the invention of the internet and then releasing it to the public. I blame Al Gore.... .....
    • quomen, on 08/17/2008, -2/+4And yet people want Net Neutrality?
      • sloppychris, on 08/18/2008, -0/+4Didn't you hear, the government promised they'd be really really nice if we gave them regulatory power for "net neutrality". Who wouldn't take their word on that!?
    • 33PercentGod, on 08/18/2008, -0/+2Well yeah,they haven't found a way to suck money out of it,so it needs to be shut down.
    • any1particular, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1My friend it is the government that's trying to save it!!!!

      Representative Howard L. Berman (D-CA) may attempt a last-minute save but even he isn't hopeful.

      It's the Fascist Republicans that want big business to run the show. They are tottaly funded by special interest groups like the RIAA.

      I hate it when ignorant people balme everything on the government when in actuality big business is runing the show!!!! Exxon made obsene record profits this summer spring??????

      Can you say fascist 10 times really fast?
  • JoeDiggsIt, on 08/17/2008, -4/+82NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....

    Is there anything we can do?

    Edit: Is there anything we can do that doesn't appease the RIAA.
  • RadiatedAnt, on 08/17/2008, -38/+2just pony up the few dollars for excellent services such as napster, rhapsody, yahoo music, zune market place... etcetera cetera
    • iMyst, on 08/17/2008, -1/+23'Excellent' is in the eye of the beholder.
    • SpeedSteamBoat, on 08/17/2008, -2/+11You forgot your "/s"
    • JAHred, on 08/17/2008, -2/+13FYI, Yahoo music isn't open any more. Dork...
    • jigga, on 08/17/2008, -1/+14Your comment just shows how ignorant you about how Pandora actually works.
    • enantiodromia, on 08/17/2008, -1/+7if you pay for "Napster" then you are a huge tool.
  • fr0ng, on 08/17/2008, -7/+238*Obligatory ***** THE RIAA! comment*
    • chedabob, on 08/17/2008, -7/+7It should be ***** SOUNDEXCHANGE!!! in this case.
    • yor1001, on 08/17/2008, -2/+9Obligatory "There is never a bad time to ***** THE RIAA" comment....oh And ***** THE MPAA while we're at it.
    • mittortz, on 08/17/2008, -8/+3adding the "*Obligatory ... comment*" really takes away from hilariousness of it. It's so amusing to me when I see a music article and know that there will be someone who adds a "***** THE RIAA!" comment and it's dugg up to the hundreds...every time. but when it becomes obligatory...well, it just loses the feel.
      next time, don't ruin a perfectly good cry of rebellion!
    • ParasyteStuie, on 08/18/2008, -1/+8Seriously, the Digg of the year will be when someone finally decides to take one for the team and just blow up the RIAA building. If I ever find out I have a brain tumor or something...

      Hm... There's men in black suits and shades at my door.
  • iMyst, on 08/17/2008, -6/+320Back to downloading random torrents until I find something I like.
  • shakabrah, on 08/17/2008, -20/+11*****. the. riaa.
    • SeventhSon, on 08/17/2008, -2/+19You didn't yell it. I'm pretty sure that's required.
    • tysonwil, on 08/17/2008, -0/+7It's pronounced "***** THE RIAA."
  • Sabin8, on 08/17/2008, -6/+122No! I love Pandora wtf... ***** the RIAA... bunch of old pricks thinking that the internet is the devil and music is best listened to on a tape.
    • Medicamusic, on 10/28/2008, -2/+6or one of those "8-tracks" ive heard so much about.
    • LRonaldHubbs, on 08/17/2008, -2/+13Home taping is killing music.
    • andreo, on 08/17/2008, -2/+9I wonder how many fingers the National Association of Broadcasters has in this. I mean this can't be good for them at all. With satellite radio in cars and at home. Then an application like this on cell phones. Exactly why would someone need to tune into a radio station for except the weather (which can also be obtained much more efficiently from other sources).
  • alcavit, on 08/17/2008, -3/+71Damn that sucks Pandora is awesome
  • Relaxin22, on 08/17/2008, -2/+284It's a shame that these idiots can't figure out how much good Pandora is doing for music. Pandora has been my one stop shop for finding new music. New music that I then go and BUY from iTunes so that I can listen to it whenever I want.
    • TheUnlearn, on 08/17/2008, -1/+46But, you aren't buying the music the RIAA wants you to buy. The reason radio is so ***** now is because the RIAA picks which songs and artists they want to make popular. Places like last.fm and pandora take away their control.
      • linagee, on 08/17/2008, -1/+31What is radio?
      • JonLatane, on 08/18/2008, -0/+2But... but... that would mean the RIAA would have to work to seek out actual TALENT. And talented people are smart, and might actually care that they're getting $1 for every $20 CD sold! They might even find a better way to distribute and get publicity!

        How could we, as fine, upstanding Americans ever appreciate music if we didn't have billionaire executives to tell us what to listen to?
    • mesasone, on 08/17/2008, -0/+3Personally, I buy from the Amazon MP3 store, but I whole heartedly agree. Now the question is, when I do actually find something I like after Pandora is gone (if), do I support the DRM-free Amazon MP3 store, or do I boycott the music industry all together?

      It's a pain tracking down the (independent) labels for individual artist and trying to find their mp3 store, if they offer one, and purchasing through them. Ugh.
    • dext3r, on 08/18/2008, -0/+2I actually bought an album off iTunes due to Pandora, and I *never* do that. The one click link to the iTunes store was just too damn easy to pass up though. ***** these idiots, back to torrenting *****. Morons.
    • pcgecko85, on 08/18/2008, -0/+4How I buy CDs

      1. hear song on Pandora
      2. download the entire album
      3. if it is something I enjoy, buy the CD
  • DanQuist, on 08/17/2008, -2/+47Man I only listen to Pandora a couple times a week, but when I do I absolutely LOVE it. I would be very sad if this happened.
    • ravamp3, on 08/17/2008, -19/+1If you absolutely love it, woulnd't you visit it more than a couple times a week? I'm assuming you absolutely love Digg and you're on here 7 hours a day every day, maybe you just 'like' Pandora.... no?
  • Vanzetti, on 08/17/2008, -3/+36Pandora has been an amazing resource for me in finding new artists and actually buying their albums. And they want to shut it down because they are streaming music? Is the only way for me to listing to music or find new artists left to paying out the ass or hearing an equal amount of advertisements? I hate this. I can't wait for these greedy bastards that ruin everything to die. The music industry needs to change the way they distribute music.
    • Culyt, on 08/18/2008, -0/+2No, you can just pirate stuff like everyone else.

      Thanks RIAA!
    • rustyvp, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1I agree I have bought many albums from artists that I had not heard of until Pandora showed them to me!!
  • TJ11240, on 08/17/2008, -5/+56What really isn't fair is that traditional radio doesn't pay any fees, and satellite radio pays a very small fraction of their total revenue. This new legislation will force Pandora to pay 70% of their revenue in royalties.

    Discovering fresh, non-mainstream music is about to get a lot harder
    • Shaymojack, on 08/17/2008, -2/+8The music industry knows it's going to be popular so they're going to grab every penny they can off of it.
      • SouthsideIrish, on 08/17/2008, -1/+8Wrong! Radio does in fact pay a licensing fee, and as always paid one. It is about half, at least, of what Pandora is paying, but do you actually believe that ASCAP and BMI wasn't getting a cut. BTW, ASCAP would be perfectly happy to charge radio stations the same as they charge Pandora, but they just can't figure out a way to do it.

        BTW, this is the ASCAP FAQ on radio license fees, if you don't believe me.

        http://www.ascap.com/licensing/radio/radiofaq.html
    • Meltyman, on 08/17/2008, -1/+3That's The Idea.
    • radiopromoguy, on 08/17/2008, -0/+3Actually... Traditional radio (terrestrial radio, as it's called) DOES pay fees. It's just not broken out by particular artist. Stations play a flat rate every year... Their licenses are dependent upon it.

      I would be very sad to see Pandora go out of business. I recently discovered Pandora through their iPhone app.
      • KelticKal, on 08/17/2008, -0/+2Actually, it is different. The RIAA does not get any money for terrestrial radio. The payment is to outfits like BMI and ASCAP as royalties to the music publishers. Regardless, the system still stinks.
    • sutherbj, on 08/18/2008, -1/+1Absolutely. But there is hope. Try listening to NPR during offtimes, like the World Cafe with David Die (sp?) He usually plays some really quality stuff, too bad it only lasts for an hour. Occasionally there's some good radio stations that play some independent stuff, etc, and most stations these days stream on the web. Sure there's some breaks in the music for commercials (which you usually don't hear, just preprogrammed DJs talking, I think laws prohibit them from streaming the commercials or something), but hope isn't completely lost.
  • RobotBuddha, on 08/17/2008, -3/+72Pandora and lastfm are the sole reason I buy music. There really aren't any good normal radio stations anymore, at least in my area. So I guess my answer to what I'll do is stop buying music, and just torrent the occasional recommendation someone gives me.
    • TVarmy, on 08/17/2008, -2/+7Check out college radio stations, at least in the interim, if your favorite service goes down. If you're into alt, may I suggest the stream at xpn.org?
    • mannymix03, on 08/17/2008, -1/+7exactly!

      All I have down here in south florida is Y-100 (Z-100 for those in NY) and everyone knows that its terrible, And i'm done with conventional radio being 1 song, then some B.S. station talk and then 3 minutes of commercials. Pandora helped me find a lot of new indie artists and then I bought their albums on iTunes or direct from their store. It sucks because now, i'm just going to torrent music again. ***** THE RIAA
    • MixMasterK, on 08/17/2008, -6/+2....you buy music?
      • TVarmy, on 08/18/2008, -0/+3It's people like you that make it hard for services like Pandora to survive. These services try to prove that the internet can be a good business model for music, under the understanding that consumers will listen to a wide variety of songs, and then buy the ones they really like to support the artist and to have it in a format that is easily replayed and goes between devices (CD can go in a car/stereo, an iTunes file can go on an iPod or 5 computers, an MP3 can go anywhere...).

        If people just mooch off the service, then you're proving the RIAA right. You don't have to buy every song, but if you really like a track, don't be a dick and pirate it, buy it through Pandora's referral link, and give them some help. This gives them ammo in court, as people are buying songs thanks to their recommendations, and it gets them some cash.
    • ummagummas08, on 08/18/2008, -0/+2***** CLEARCHANNEL
      Everyone is listening to the same crappy stations because of these bastards.
      • TVarmy, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1They don't have the indie and college stations (yet).
  • heartsblood, on 08/17/2008, -12/+3I actually have no problem with this in fact I hope they go out of business sooner. Not because I hate the service, I like them actually, but because if they go out of business it means the service will be picked up overseas by a company that doesn't have to follow the draconian rules that Pandora does. In the process the music industry will lose their royalty money and the fed will lose their tax revenue. Yes it sounds bad but this is the nature of business and they won't change unless they're burnt. You just have to look to the future and hope that whatever replaces Pandora is good enough to leave a big enough scar.
    • UNL1M1T3D, on 08/17/2008, -2/+6I know that this is a long shot, but I would love to see the Pirate Bay guys go and purchase Pandora or run a similar service.
  • tmazza23, on 08/17/2008, -4/+14Nooooooooooooooooooooo!
  • jurvusbob, on 08/17/2008, -19/+65Use Last.fm
    • TVarmy, on 08/17/2008, -1/+24They better not be the next ones to go down. I've found more music I like with them than with any other service.
    • LR2_, on 08/17/2008, -1/+18Don't worry last.fm is here to stay.

      "On 30 May 2007, CBS Interactive acquired Last.fm for £140m ($280m USD)."

      So far only good things have happened since the acquisition. Such as 'full tracks' and free services that were previously only available to donors. I highly recommend last.fm.

      Also, here's the itunes link to last.fm http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/ ...
      • TVarmy, on 08/17/2008, -4/+1Aren't CBS part of the old media? Didn't the EFF say they were dinosaurs set to go extinct any second?
    • zephyrxero, on 08/18/2008, -2/+4Last.fm is in the same exact position as Pandora...the only reason they would have any more longevity after the rate increases is if they are just bringing in much more ad revenue than Pandora.
    • ummagummas08, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1does last.fm have an iPhone app?
    • rigorious, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1I'm beginning to get bad vibes from last.fm. Everything is calculated from the amount ppl listens to something.. it all just ends up examining distribution channels and how the music is marketed.
      There's no artistic values in the calculations and the result is quite similar.
  • IanPR, on 08/17/2008, -17/+9Last.fm?
  • benquack02, on 08/17/2008, -5/+30PANDORA Sold me on the iphone. now what am i to do?
    • jurvusbob, on 08/17/2008, -5/+24Use Last.fm
      • zephyrxero, on 08/18/2008, -10/+1You dumbass....last.fm is going to have the same exact problem...lol
    • dn11, on 08/17/2008, -8/+14good question. Last.fm suggestion system really sucks IMO - it reflects the nature of popular tastes but not mine. Pandora is way more innovative
      • joel8x, on 08/17/2008, -0/+5As an artist, submitting music to Last.fm is easy and you have control over your artist profile, while others can contribute to it like a wiki. There is a much larger catalog of music on Last.fm because of this. I'm sorry, but once I started using Last.fm, Pandora was left unclicked in my bookmarks bar.
      • Lukesed, on 08/18/2008, -0/+2Pandora is better under the hood. Last.fm just recommends that you listen to what other people similar to you listen to a lot. That sounds good, but it ends up just giving me popular bands that are in the same genre as my stuff. Pandora, on the other hand, has people analyze every track and assign a value for hundreds of variables, so the music you get is tailored to what you tell it you like. It can even say exactly why a track was recommended, whereas Last.fm has no idea.
    • zephyrxero, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1Yup...I'm in the same boat...if Soundclick and the US Congress (really it's more congress's fault than the RIAA probably) kill internet radio, there goes 99% of the whole reason I even bought an iPhone. I usually just got the free, cheapo Nokias before...
  • drcreek, on 08/17/2008, -3/+41The UK has already lost it. Everybody I know that used it switched to Last.fm.

    Still I'd go back to pandora in an instant.
    • DrAIR, on 11/10/2008, -0/+0I used to use pandora with an american zip code till they stopped this. Today I got back into Pandora using a free software called Hotspot shield. It gives you an american IP address. So you can access american only content online... So might be able to use pandora a bit before the bad guys close it down... Hope this helps some of you non-US folks out there.
  • ravamp3, on 08/17/2008, -4/+12I actually beleived the opposite would happen, with the iPhone app and the site's bad ass redesign (those ad's they have are spectacular) it looked like it was headed to the top... Hate to see good sites go down the drain, while ***** ones thrive.
  • douce2, on 08/17/2008, -3/+13I'm a Canadian resident, and I use to use this when it first came out, and since they had it changed over to USA only, I've been waiting about 2 or 3 years for my chance to get back on this service. I'm saddened to hear that it's closing up shop before I ever got the second chance to let it find me great indie artists. It was a great site built on a great idea. I loved it and I'll miss it.
    • UNL1M1T3D, on 08/17/2008, -2/+3Use a proxy server based in the US until they go down.
    • Technohamster, on 08/17/2008, -0/+2Yeah pandora was great when I tried it. It made me kind of mad when they kicked us off.

      There's always last.fm though.
  • JivePode, on 08/17/2008, -8/+1There are hundreds of amazing websites for finding new music; Pandora isn't the be all and end all. Still, a shame.
    • ileftfark, on 08/17/2008, -1/+1You're missing the point.
    • UNL1M1T3D, on 08/17/2008, -1/+2In my opinion though Pandora was the slickest by far. The interface is very friendly and easy to use.
  • professorfurley, on 08/17/2008, -4/+5boooooo
  • elambing, on 08/17/2008, -3/+11:(
    • duffman03, on 08/17/2008, -0/+3Pandora has been there for me, through good times and bad.
  • Shaymojack, on 08/17/2008, -3/+40I think thew music industry is trying to kill themselves. First they charge a ridiculous amount of money for one CD, and now their trying to kill services that make me want to buy new CD's.
  • billwands, on 08/17/2008, -5/+12yea! Lets all thank our congressman and senators for helping to make the world and Internet a better place for big business. Another glorious day for lobbyists everywhere!
  • sizl, on 08/17/2008, -7/+1as long as the media giants exist, this will always happen. welcome to the evil side of capitalism.
  • sock2828, on 08/17/2008, -2/+26I have been buying so much music because of Pandora.

    This is terrible!
  • t4stringer, on 08/17/2008, -8/+1Im pretty sure i dugg an article about this yesterday...
  • Salzar, on 08/17/2008, -5/+19What if we take the idea of pandora, but apply it to torrents. Then every body wins, I get music I like, and the RIAA can eat a dick.
    • MattBD, on 08/17/2008, -2/+6Perhaps get them to open source their technology if they do go under, then just have links to the music on The Pirate Bay built into the site.
    • handmadewallaby, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1I Second That!
  • DieselGrunge, on 08/17/2008, -4/+23This is worse than Stage6 closing.
    • AmateurX, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1I still can't find any decent Divx videos out there...
  • ileftfark, on 08/17/2008, -3/+55It's ***** like this that causes outrage, mistrust, and piracy in the first place. If the industry would understand that people just want choices, affordability, and flexibility (being able to convert/backup/transfer things we've paid for), they wouldn't have to spend billions of dollars in unnecessary lawsuits which make them look like overzealous douchebag nazis. Unfortunately, they are overzealous douchebag nazis.
    • ElAmo, on 08/18/2008, -0/+3eh, i'm pretty sure piracy stems from being able to get something for nothing. it's been around far longer than the RIAA has, and i'm pretty sure piracy will continue long past it. the problem is that there just too many people who do not care about paying for services, and so piracy will always live. the RIAA is pretty obnoxious, but they being scapegoated a little bit.
      • ileftfark, on 08/18/2008, -0/+2While I agree that there will always be people that want something for nothing (that's just common sense), I honestly believe people are willing to monetarily support things they enjoy, agree with, or personally believe in than you give credit for. Obama raised $50 million, mostly from grassroots supporters. Radiohead made more cash releasing their own album and allowing 'donations' than they ever did for their multi-platinum commercial albums. I downloaded it for free, and then donated $10. It's a small amount of money, but never has a band released a major album and received $10 for a single recording from a single fan on a single purchase (live shows aside). Your point is valid, but I think you underestimate those of us who will support the things that enrich our lives.
      • drakenlot, on 08/18/2008, -0/+3I offered $10 to radiohead.

        and after dling NIN the slip, i went and preordered the cd
      • ElAmo, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1I think in the case of Obama and Radiohead, they are standouts in their field. Obama is the black candidate who is as close to being above politics as any so far. And Radiohead are doing exactly what the people want by screwing the RIAA and "giving" their music away. Both these cases generate enormous sympathy as well as passionate support because they are going against the system.

        Also, I think you two are exemplary examples of giving to those things you care about. I would assume a majority of people will not care passionately about all their music, and will therefore not want to buy it all. And to be honest, it would be very taxing to buy all your music. So I think Radioheads solution of giving it away for free is the only solution. Then the pirates will not even bother pirating, and might give a dollar or two, but the people who feel passionately will donate well and make them a profit.
  • holyreality, on 08/17/2008, -2/+13yet another step back for online distribution of music. great, let's make everyone pay for songs on the radio. what a smart idea. as if I needed another reason to pirate everything, here's a perfect one. I'm a musician myself and I post all of my recordings on the web for free. it's about expression, not money. well, real music with soul, that is.
  • DivisibleByZero, on 08/17/2008, -6/+12Apple has the power to run something like Pandora without anybody stopping them. If Pandora goes down, they should pick up the reigns. And if they think they wouldn't make a profit off of it... The Pandora app was the deciding factor for me to buy an iPhone.
    • RobotBuddha, on 08/17/2008, -3/+3I already had an iphone, but the pandora app was the reason I was willing to give up a lot of the 3rd party applications and upgrade it. I would really miss it if it went away, the interface they put together for the iphone was just beautiful.
  • BKred, on 08/17/2008, -3/+15I love Pandora. I play it at work on my lousy job-issued laptop that can't support my music collection. Heck, I even got my 83-year-old grandfather hooked on it and it's blues offerings. I'd be very sad to see this happen...
  • ralphthemagi, on 08/17/2008, -5/+13Pandora is the best thing ever to happen to Internet radio. There are alternatives, such as Last.fm, but they just aren't as good or easy to use. Pandora is just to bloody simple, and brilliant, that you can't not fall in love with the application if you love music. Last.fm is the big competitor, but I can do without the social networking aspect of listening to music. Some people are all about that. Not me. I just want to find great music.

    That being said, this was inevitable. They really don't have a good business model. IMO, what they should consider doing is some kind of paid service. I always thought a company like this would do well with some kind of Skype model: buy a block of "credits" for purchasing music, and maybe pay a very small monthly fee for the use of the service. They could make money off the interest for unused credits, and I'd be willing to pay *maybe* $2.99/mo for Pandora itself. Maybe the $2.99 fee lets me replay a song up to three times, or something like that. I'm sure they could work out some kind of credit system with Amazon. That be great IMO. Pay $10 and then whenever I find a song I like, I can just buy it from Amazon through Pandora.
    • michaelz92, on 08/18/2008, -1/+1See it's people that will "*maybe*" pay is the problem. 2.99/mo is not much and i would gladly pay it to keep pandora around.
  • cosby, on 08/17/2008, -3/+6Sad news, I thoroughly enjoy pandora. Down with the RIAA!
  • guybrush58, on 08/17/2008, -7/+1Bollocks to Pandora, they don't allow anyone outside the US the access their website, they are not worth defending.
    • panamajack, on 08/17/2008, -1/+2Silly rabbit, it was the RIAA that forced them to close shop in the rest of the world.
    • SouthsideIrish, on 08/17/2008, -0/+1Hmm...wonder if it has anything to do with ASCAP, BMI and licensing fees. Don't blame Pandora, blame the music industry.
  • Bluezdood, on 08/17/2008, -2/+8Story was boosted from the Washington Post. Original article...
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic ...
  • netsql, on 08/17/2008, -5/+2I have tried Pandora and now I use Slacker. Much better, check out Slacker.com. It's software and player is poor, but service is great overall. I know that does not make sense, but it is much better than Pandora. Slacker just has poor engineers.
    • ripismoney, on 08/17/2008, -2/+1Amen, I used to occasionally use Pandora, but it just didn't cut. After checking out Slacker and having a station play so many songs I loved in a row, I was sold! I have an extensive music library of my own, but sometimes it's just nice to put on the good old Internets radio -- I am almost tempted to buy a Slacker Portable player, maybe I will if they ever come out with a 2nd generation.
    • RobotBuddha, on 08/17/2008, -1/+1You weren't kidding about the player. I was expecting to be disappointed in what mobile operating systems it ran on, but they don't support any of them. Or anything other than windows for that matter.
    • drakenlot, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1So slacker and last.fm are alternatives, are there any other ones?

      I occasionally use icebergradio, but since they changed the layout, they suck.
      • AdamFromMyspace, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1www.thesixtyone.com is pretty sweet
  • dounutt32, on 08/17/2008, -3/+2Pandora is great and I with many others would be really pissed if it was to left to be out of service. Damn RiAA freaking dicks.
  • Phoenixfury, on 08/17/2008, -3/+6In their darkest hour, I hope Pandora revisits the subscription model instead of pulling the plug. Those of us that are passionate about the service would gladly pay! Originally when they started out they were considering a subscription model then decided to go with advertising... I'd rather pay them something than to see them go away. They are one of the few online audio services that actually is worth paying for.
    • BBrains, on 08/17/2008, -0/+1Unfortunately, the music subscription model isn't a money maker either. Rhapsody has yet to break into profitability (with millions of paying subscribers), and Napster is basically dead - their stock is worth less than the cash they have..
  • jimbellizzi, on 08/17/2008, -3/+6As a both a music lover and someone in the industry I really hope Pandora survives, it's the best radio station I have yet to see by far. Matches music extremely well and you can skip songs on the few occasions when it doesn't. I personally have discovered a lot of new music through Pandora, and I would venture to say that, especially with the move to mobile, others have/will as well.

    I think it just comes down that integrating social aspects of the Internet is a necessity for ANY industry, and especially music. Personally I think Pandora has established itself as the best quality music radio, now it needs to make itself reachable to a larger base, and allow more interaction.

    Let's hope Pandora and other businesses like it can come through and bring in a newer, better model of the music industry!
  • chkdg8, on 08/17/2008, -1/+39This is going to fuel a whole new wave of piracy and you know what? They deserve it. I would gladly pay a couple bucks a month for me to able to listen to Pandora on my Mac or iPhone but now they ***** it all up. I remember when the ɐɐıɹ said that it's "All about the artist" but now they're so many class action lawsuits where the "Artists" are now suing the ɐɐıɹ for un-payed royalties from piracy recoveries. And they wonder why sites like The Piratebay are all the rage. It'll never end and this war will only be won if the establishment bends and surrenders to the new digital era.
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