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Alcohol Is Now A Date Rape Drug in Wisconsin

madison.com — One of the nation's top party schools could get a sobering jolt from a change in state law that puts alcohol on a par with date-rape drugs as an aggravating factor in certain sexual assaults. The change, long sought by rape- victim advocates in Wisconsin, means that victims who are very drunk

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airencracken, on 10/12/2007, -4/+102Problem: Getting drunk allows rape to happen

Solution: Don't get so ***** drunk.

Idiots.
- corbettl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+41@airencracken: You are 100% correct. Common sense isn't so common anymore. Instead the people in power "must" save us from ourselves.
- RobotCitizen, on 10/12/2007, -20/+9Problem: Asking a person to have judgement while they are under the influence of a judgement-impairing substance. It's a paradox.
- greyghst168, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21But people can use judgment and take steps to prevent getting overly drunk before they get drunk enough to impair they're judgment.
- PAStheLoD, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9no it's not really, because they've decided to took that substance and they've decided to be drunk (thus increasing the chance to get laid)
- lorensingley, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9It is a logical decision to make alcohol part of the family of date rape drugs because, yeah, it lowers people's inhibitions a LOT. But I do that that one difference between the normally thought-of "date rape" drugs and alcohol is that all parties involved are usually consuming it, rather than the perpetrator giving to someone without their knowledge. I guess we as a society need to keep deciding what to allow and what to dis-allow in the name of fun.
- confluence, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2I partially agree, but it is not always obvious that a drink contains alcohol - sometimes you really can't taste it. Some people are also more sensitive to the taste of alcohol than others. It is thus possible for someone to spike another person's drink with alcohol. Granted, this probably can't be a very large amount of alcohol at one time, but what if the spiker keeps bringing the spikee more and more drinks, until the spikee has in fact consumed enough to be tipsy?
- lorensingley, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Well, that's possible, and it happens a lot all over the world. If a substance or object CAN be abused or used to hurt someone, rest assured someone WILL do it somewhere.
- billybob476, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1"But people can use judgment and take steps to prevent getting overly drunk before they get drunk enough to impair they're judgment."
  
  You've clearly never been to college. Generally, getting overly drunk is the ultimate goal.
- SpyDerMann, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4That's not the point, the point is abusing a drunk girl. She's obviously too drunk to say "no". So no, it's NOT consensual. Now get your mind out of the gutter and start respecting women, k?
- hipstershaun, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I agree a guy should not abuse a drunk girl, but what if he is to drunk to know better. Aren't they abusing each other. If they're both drunk they are both responsible for their own stupidity. If being drunk excuses her from common sense then it must excuse him as well... when they're both drunk. I've also seen it go the other way. Girl taking advantage of a drunk guy (unconscious in fact). If one is sober and the other isn't its rape. Otherwise it's consensual stupidity.
politech, on 10/12/2007, -9/+22Without Alcohol most of those big tall women of German stock in Wisconsin would never get laid at all!

Don't ya know!
Ya Hey Dere!
- escheppa, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7If it wasn't for germans in wisconsin you wouldn't have any beer to drink to begin with.
- SilentPurity, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Agreed I live in Upper Michigan, its the same way here. Without alcohol no one would have sex because everyone is so damned ugly.
- shawbin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4That's a Minnesotan accent you're doing, not someone from Wisconsin.
- Mike_Whitney, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I think you mean:
  
  Don'tchya know?
  Yah sure, you betchya!
Bcalibur, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6I live in Milwaukee Wisconsin, so thank you state laws for giving me one more reason to get the ***** out of Wisconsin for college.
- Paktu, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11You should have more hometown pride. I've heard Milwaukee isn't as bad as it smells.
- blinkfink182, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2@Paktu: funny cuz it's true...went to Marquette, that was entirely too accurrate. 8)
- Paktu, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1blink-
  Pretty strange, I actually toured Marquette and seriously considered going there...ended up at Minnesota instead. Everyone I know that came up here from Wisconsin (tuition's actually cheaper for them here than in state, so there's a ton of them) doesn't have very many good things to say about their state.
- escheppa, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Don't you just love the smell of beer fermenting when the wind blows out of the Menominee valley... I know I do.
- itsthinking, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I live in Wisconsin as well, and as much as I want to get out of here, I've come to obtain a certain pride for our state recently. I used to hate it here, but Wisconsin isn't all that bad, plus, we have one of the best Senators, Russ Feingold.
- dapperdrake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4You guys need to come to Madison sometime. It's one of the nicest cities you'll find and has one of the best colleges around- UW-Madison.
- jamms, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2i've grown used to milwaukee and the weird laws in this state. overall it's a good place to live. see ya on brady st.
- StephenChow, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0You're telling me to come to Wisconsin.... Someone shoot this guy.
Paktu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24Before getting all indignant about this, please RTFA:
"Wisconsin had been the only state to exclude alcohol as a potential legal intoxicant in rape cases before the law change, sponsored by Sen. Cathy Stepp, R-Sturtevant."
Perhaps the real story is that alcohol was NOT a date rape drug in Wisconsin until now.
- sosuke, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6pardon my chuckle at your pun, indiggnant, and thanks for clearing that fact up
The_Wallbanger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7This is just going to make the legal waters murkier. Alcohol used to be considered date rape drug if the victim was unconsious, now it will only require that victims can't give free consent. Anyone who has ever had second thoughts the morning after will now have a legal president to claim rape on the basis of compromised consent. It's not clear how a jury would deliberate. Given the usual mutual alcohol consumption for both people, couldn't alcohol also be considered the "date raper" drug?
- brandizzle, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5That's why you don't ***** drunk people. Seriously...you must be pretty desperate anyway to have sex with someone who can barely walk.
- PAStheLoD, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5I can't have sex with my drunk girlfriend or what? :)
- qwickone, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I don't think that people regretting it the morning after are necessarily going to cry rape. The reason I say that is rape is severely under-reported because most women are ashamed. I think a woman would have to have a vebdetta against someone to say it was rape. Not to say that won't happen however...
- PAStheLoD, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yeah, that's true and sad, but this won't change that. If someone is too ashamed to report that she was raped, she is also ashamed to report that she was raped _while being drunk_...
- lorensingley, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@PAStheLoD - As long as she didn't say she was your girlfriend only when she was completely hammered :P
- PAStheLoD, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1And what if the sex has changed her mind? So does it count as a rape? :]
- fjacky66, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2What if can barely Walk too?
500freestyle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I'm pretty sure its always been that way, its just more defined now.
2damntall, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1So now everytime you wake up next to somebody you wish you hadn't you can press charges??

Unless there was a held down beer bonging or shot of absynth or everclear involved this is horse poo.
IHaveIssues, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Did someone sneak the alcohol into their bodies without their knowledge? No? Then it's not a defense.
PAStheLoD, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Alcohol doesn't makes you dumber, at least not in the way like watching a speech of bush, it plays with your ability to judge, emotions and instincts came first, then you might start thinking .. but it's still you. So being an animal is a bad thing? But hell, you got laid, even if you don't remember, be happy, and do a HIV test, lol.
ManHammer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1*Sigh* more excellent press for the great state of Wisconsin.....its stuff like this that will drive a guy to drink
BritishGolgo13, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Much like the MySpace cases, people don't want to be responsible for themselves anymore and the government is stupid for allowing this kind of behavior to take place. One way to stop rape, don't get so drunk. Is it seriously that hard? Pretty soon guys are going to have to carry around waivers for girls to sign on the night of, and then the girl can't do anything about it the morning after.
fatJohn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3This is already a law in some states, one being Michigan.
mecole21, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2The only way diggers get laid is through the use of alchohol.
- PAStheLoD, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Not really true, we can also pay for it :D
- lorensingley, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I assume you are including yourself in that category?
VTmruhlin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12I don't see how anybody CAN argue for alcohol as a date rape drug.
1) The "victim" takes the drug voluntarily in most cases. It's hard to not notice there's alcohol in the drink you're taking.

2) There's quite a noticeable double standard in our treatment of men/women when alcohol is involved. Many states laws say that its rape if the woman has had n drinks. The guy could have 3 times that much and still be held liable for his actions. Why is he held to a higher standard?

3) Another double standard exists in our treatment of drunk drivers, and I'm kind of surprised you don't see more of them using this as an argument: The alcohol as rape argument is based on the reasoning that a woman who has consumed alcohol is incapable of making a rational decision... but only relating to sex?
If she's deciding whether or not to have sex, she's not liable; but if she's deciding whether or not to drive home, she is? I've always viewed sex as a more important decision than driving home, so I'd expect a greater level of impairment screwing with that decision. If I'm drunk enough to change my mind about sex, I'm way past the point of knowing if its OK to drive home.
- CoolWind, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"The alcohol as rape argument is based on the reasoning that a woman who has consumed alcohol is incapable of making a rational decision... " That's only part of it. She may have made a rational decision NOT to have sex by saying NO, etc. But she may not have had enough energy and consciousness to put up a fight.
- jcronkhite, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The best points made here on this topic so far! This is a law that was passed with a predetermined agenda. Where's the equal opportunity victim here? The only way to combat this is for those brave drunk males to sleep with the nastiest women in their local tavern, and then sue them for "rape", having them jailed. Send a message as to why this law is a crock of *****.
- qwickone, on 10/12/2007, -3/+51) The spirit of it is to make sure guys don't take advantage of women they KNOW can't make judgement decisions.
  
  2) Guys generally have to drink a lot more than women to become incapacitated. That's why men can drink more, pound for pound, than women to achieve the same BAC.
  
  3) Excellent point that I totally agree with in the decision making aspect. I think they force you to be responsible for the driving decision, however, because you're more likely to hurt other (read: innocent) people by driving drunk than having sex drunk (unless you're full of STDs)
- kakwakas, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7With the way the law works, you're usually held liable for anything you do drunk as you MADE THE DECISION to get drunk.
  So, if there's a really drunk girl and a really drunk guy who do it, and the girl cries rape the next morning, is the guy still held liable? I can imagine that in court...
  "YOU RAPED THIS WOMAN WHILE SHE WAS OVERLY INTOXICATED! HER JUDGEMENT WAS IMPAIRED TO THE POINT WHERE SHE COULD NOT HAVE CONSENTED."
  "...But I was overly intoxicated and couldn't have consented, either!"
  "BUT YOU HAVE A PENIS, SIR!! IN THIS COURT OF LAW, THAT AUTOMATICALLY MAKES YOU SUPERIOR TO WOMEN IN EVERY WAY. YOU LOSE, GOOD DAY, SIR. NOW GO TO PRISON AND GET RAPED SO WE CAN IGNORE IT."
- raitchison, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Agreed, from TFA:
  ----------------------------------
  Blanchard also stressed that the somewhat lower bar on consent standards for victims does not extend to perpetrators, who can be charged for crimes whether they have been drinking or not.
  ----------------------------------
  
  In other words, if you've been drinking, consent to sex then later change your mind (or decide the guy pissed you off and you want to get even) you can't be held accountable for your actions, but if you have been drinking, and you have sex with someone else with their consent you can be hed accountable for not knowing that the person will regret it in the morning, or will regret it after you failed to call them back, or if you;ve broken up with them.
- frogpelt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"Many states laws say that its rape if the woman has had n drinks. The guy could have 3 times that much and still be held liable for his actions. Why is he held to a higher standard?"
  
  Wow. That's a really good point.
- VTmruhlin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@CoolWind
  I agree with your point of view, but its not relevant to the argument. It wasn't a rape because she was drunk; it was a rape because she said "no." Sure, the alcohol helped him overpower her, but its no different than a situation where the guy is just tougher.
  The important situation here is the one where she gets drunk and says yes.
- loonquawl42, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0midread, sorry
- rbanffy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2What if I had sex with an ugly girl just because I was drunk? Can I call it date rape?
Nonsuch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Personal responsibility? What's that?
lubacious, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1what if both people were "very drunk during [the] sexual encounter?" Can they claim to have raped each other?
- PAStheLoD, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Don't know, worth a trial maybe :D
- Chimichanga, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'd imagine that's where this part comes into play:
  "Blanchard also stressed that the somewhat lower bar on consent standards for victims does not extend to perpetrators, who can be charged for crimes whether they have been drinking or not.
  
  "Alcohol is not an excuse," he said. "It's our job to help jurors understand that people who want to commit sexual assault many times are going to take unfair advantage to get what they want."
  
  It's a shame they didn't elaborate more on that, as it seems so obvious a question that they chose to ignore it.
gforb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"The Beer Consent Defense"

I offered her a beer and she was fully aware at that time that she would be plastered after that beer and what would likely happen. What am I saying, "likely"?

And besides, she woke up beside me and decided that she should use

"The I Got Drunk And Woke Up In His Bed Oh My God He's An Ugly Guy Offense"
mickoes, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Then don't drink? Those girls are drunk, make love and ask money for their new kid. Who is the more smart, common guys..
Pottersquash, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3Guys, you cant argue against this,all your arguing is that you have the right to sleep with drunk chicks. This is sad and pathetic, you can't win, dont do it
- raitchison, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1No smartass that's actually not the point at all, the point is that if we go out with a girl, and she has even one drink, and we have consensual sex, that she can later change her mind and cry "rape".
h4x0r1ng, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I married my "date rape" victim, so it's not all bad.
mitechka, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1I wonder, at which point will it be considered safer to kill the girl after sex then to let her live and potentially get you jailed for rape?
legendary, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1So technically if the guys drunk and the woman date rape cancels out because both couldn't con cent
geekee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4So if both you and your partner are both drunk, and she claims date rape, can you also claim the same?
skilletsavior35, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1well if they forced their victom to drink alcohol then i can see that.....but if someone drinks it and someone takes advantage of that then i dont see a problem with that =)
xenoputtss, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sadly, although the intenstions will be for the good, i can easily see this being abused by many people.
Simple situation, we are partying, you are drinking I am not. I hit on you and you are resistant at first, but after a few minutes of chit chat you are willing. (Being a guy I know that first hand females NEVER want to do it with a guy....at first. Im sure you can ask cupples that have been together more then 1 year and its the same situation) So the dead gets done, and the next day your all pissed off and want my money or some *****. So you go to court and say "wahh wahh wahh, i was soooo drunk and he took advantage of me".

I think its time in America we start pushing for something called "Personal Responsibility". It would work something like this... if you know that action A can lead to result B, and result B can lead to result C, then you are fully aware that A can lead to C, and you should be held liable.

What next, if i get drunk and then drive and hit someone, am i not liable because I wasn't able to make a think clearly?

America = the suxxors as far as intellegence in laws is concerned.
vegasbright, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Its wisonsin.
Wisconsin is like soviet Russia, only with a lot more poverty and alcoholism.
- itsthinking, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Ignorance really must be bliss, huh?
- dapperdrake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Actually, besides this, Wisconsin has a tradition of being very forward. The first kindergarten was started in Wisconsin. Stem Cell research was started by a professor in Madison. Also, a UW-Madison physicist invented the integrated circuit. I know that this is Digg and maybe the facts don't matter, but Wisconsin is a state entirely different from any other you might visit and you all should stop by sometime, at least Madison.
- vegasbright, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I lived there for 6 months. Let me counter your argument by stating that individual acomplishments might look good to you but experiencing the state tells me your comments are deflecting the real...um...'issues'.
  
  Personally its a beautiful state if you can get past Cletus the slack jawed yokel. I would definitely live there, just far away from the white supremacists and poverty.
  
  I lived in Northern Wisconsin, so that'd tell you something about what armpit of the state i lived in.
liquidedge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Awesome. Now a girl can get wasted and have a questionable hookup just by being an idiot and the state will protect their honor!
- billybob476, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4It's like the government is trying to be their...BIG BROTHER!
  
  (pun intended)
poipoipoi, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6This is why you should always kill your victim(s) after you rape them.
RabidPenguins, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"Beer... The cause of and solution to all of life's problems."
Dr.House, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1well this ***** things up terribly for a lot for all the fug monsters "getting lucky" out there.
Hoffer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4When I was a sophomore in college, I picked up a girl at a party. We were making out and such and discussed going back to my place for sex and such. We got back to my place and she went back to my bedroom. I stood and talked to my roommates for 10 minutes then went back. She was passed out drunk. I tried to wake her, but she was out.

I didn't even sleep on my bed because I was so uncomfortable with the situation. I was afraid she'd wake up in the morning and freak out because she didn't know where she was and who is this guy. I slept on the couch in the living room.

I would say that if I had sex with her in that state, it would have been rape. Even though we had intentions of having sex once we got to my place. So, I could see how alcohol could rate as a date rape drug.
- Chimichanga, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It was made pretty clear that there was already a law that said if the 'victim' was unconscious it was sexual assault. So the new law doesn't affect your situation.
- Tiabin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think the point he was getting at was that he had just been talking to her, and yet she pretty unpredictably blacked out. And thus... she was more ***** than he originally imagined.
elShaggy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2First off Minnesota > Wisconsin. in all ways. ok except american football.

This law is commonsense, girls enjoy getting drunk and being horny. You best know you shouldn't hit it. Cause 50% of the time you'll both regret it.
- dapperdrake, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Minnesota > Wisconsin in everything except football??????
  Are you sure? What about colleges? UW-Madison, UW-LaCrosse, and even UW-Eau Claire are all harder to get into than Minnesota! Minneapolis is also a disgusting city with child prostitution / human trafficking problems, whereas Madison has been voted the nicest city in which to live. You also have to love how Minnesota says "10,000 lakes" on their license plates. Wisconsin has 15,081 and Minnesota only has 11,842. (sources: http://dnr.wi.gov/org/water/division/yow/lakes.htm http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/faq/mnfacts/water.html)
  
  And do remember the Badgers vs. Gophers game last year? If I remember right, the Gophers lost when they got cocky and the Badgers blocked their punt for a touch down. I think anyone who watches college football remembers seeing the Gophers crying. It was hilarious. Poor Minnesota.... :(
eseverson, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1
My wife actually prefers it when I have sex with her when she is passed because then she doesn't have to live through the 90 seconds of disappointing boredom. :)
donolsen1155, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Doesn't seem like it compares to me.

Seems virtually impossible to slip a gal a case of beer without her knowing.
negativeburn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1There goes that whole "taking responsibility for your actions" thing. Who needs that when you can just make yet another law.
notnAP, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0A few thoughts:

1) So much for buying a woman a drink in a bar.

2) Men get just as drunk as women, often more so in the case of college aged offenders (as this law seems to be targeting). How many women will be prosecuted for "raping" drunk men? Have not men "lost the ability to choose" by being similarly drunk?

3) Items to bring on date:
- money
- condoms
- breathilizer

4) Can a man ask a woman "are you too drunk to say yes?" Wouldn't the same intoxication which negates the woman's ability to permit sex also impede her ability to answer the question about whether or not she can "submit" to sex? Isn't this a circular problem - too drunk to say yes, too drunk to be able to answer whether or not she's too drunk to say yes?
toddtroy111, on 09/21/2008, -0/+0 my wife has been taken advantage of from men her whole life and she relates these stupid actions as fun times even though she regrets the night and what she did she has alot of self esteem problems and feels she has to have alcohol in her life becuse thats how she has been for 25 years and it has us split up because she wont see the disfunction or the conseqences from her actions i dont drink so she sees no fun in me or the sex that we have so as far as a date rape drug i believe it is but some girls are so messed up in the head that its actually what they want its pretty sad that shes living her life that way she will end up with hiv along with what she has already we wont go there now anyone else know someone like this it might be her
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Alcohol Is Now A Date Rape Drug in Wisconsin

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