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How to detect *****

scottberkun.com — Everyone lies: it ’s just a question of how, when and why. From the relationship saving “yes, you do look thin in those pants” to the improbable “your table will be ready in 5 minutes”, manipulating the truth is part of the human condition. Accept it now. For a variety of reasons BS can be hard to detect...here's a lesson in BS detection.

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  • ramong, on 10/10/2007, -13/+8Great pointers, well suited to prevent other people from screwing you over.
  • twrife, on 10/10/2007, -30/+6I'm in debate in high school, and a lot of these tips become handy.
    Although I do BS a lot because people are stupid.
    • OMGIAMTHEMAN, on 10/10/2007, -18/+3high school debate is such a chump activity. You fill your head with all sorts of political half-truths and learn all sorts of incorrect minutae about one topic so that by the time you get out, you're completely ignorant, but not before you develop this unbelievable ego thinking that you really know it all
      • hmunkey, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3High school debate is a good way to get into a good college. Of course you wouldn't know about that flipping burgers.
      • jtb4, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Ok foad. How dare you tell some high school kid not to participate in debate club? It's already geeky enough without adults (presumably you are one) telling them it's a "chump sport". I can't believe people sometimes......
    • nevesis, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11high school debate is a very noble activity.

      you should be familiarizing yourself with logic and fallacies, philosophers and think tanks, and hopefully learning some speaking tips along the way.

      you shouldn't be BSing in debate. that's why you spend hours constructing case files. if you're BSing, you're not winning state.
    • Konstantino, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Speaking of BS, digg sensors the word in the title submission and comments, but not in the title that the browser displays...
      Just pointing that out.
  • BalsamLane, on 10/10/2007, -39/+20Easy... anytime Dubya is talking.
    • str3ama, on 10/10/2007, -13/+44I don't like the guy either, but it's getting really annoying how people vilify the guy as pure evil. I support the ousting of the president, but it's stupid how Bush bashing is actually 'fashionable'.
      • nights0223, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4Tell that to Comedy Central.
        • archlich, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1How dare you! Colbert has nothing but respect for G.W.

          I am flacid with rage.
      • splatterboy, on 10/10/2007, -6/+2"but it's stupid how Bush bashing is actually 'fashionable'"
        I think you got that wrong, it's amazing how stupid Bush actually is... to say nothing of the morons who put him there.
        Apologies to Inigo Montoya
      • bherring, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1Maybe you should wake up and take a sober look at what is really going on in this country.
    • XISUPERMANIX, on 10/10/2007, -15/+32Why is it that literally every ***** story on digg has something about Bush in the comments? Even when the story is no way linked to politics you always have someone talking about him.
      • sabach, on 10/10/2007, -12/+26The story is linked to lying sacks of *****, I see the connection.
        • Palmetto, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2Dugg because it was just plain funny.
      • gajillion, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9Seriously. Did you just say that a story on detecting lies is in "no way linked to politics"?
      • rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -6/+4Why is it that literally every ***** right-winger on digg would like us never to discuss the actions or behavior of the current president of the United States, no matter how dramatically they impact all of our lives?

        You folks are still bringing up Jimmy Carter every chance you get, for crying out loud - not to mention Clintondidit. Blame yourselves for creating an increasingly toxic, partisan atmosphere ever since New Gingrich and the Reaganauts.
      • twinklyJesus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Have you ever given a 9 year old child a box of sugared cereal?

        What happens? Once a taste, they go crazy with it and you end up with cereal all over the place. Every place it doesn't belong. It's not the cereal's fault, it's what happens when 9 year olds are loose, and hyped up on sugar.

    • shauncorleone, on 10/10/2007, -5/+14Congratulations! You are funny and original!!
    • drachemorder, on 10/10/2007, -8/+1:%s/Dubya/any politician/g
      • Dracker, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Interesting that you would use the Vim syntax over the simpler and more widely posted Perl syntax of s/Dubya/any politician/
    • Drakin030, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"Dubya" has not lied. He has just been incorrect.
  • dukeeeey, on 10/10/2007, -42/+22Every time Bush opens his mouth, only ***** comes out.
    • ell0bo, on 10/10/2007, -9/+10I kinda like "Every time Bushie talks, some ***** gets its wings"
  • yelow, on 10/10/2007, -20/+15Easy, just read the comments on any digg page.

    Also, any link working five minutes after posting makes me go "*****, it should be down already" like this one.

    -Tim
    • faskippy, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1Would you like some cheese with that whine??
    • oojamaflip2006, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2I can only assume you are including your own comments as '*****' ?
  • philforhumanity, on 10/10/2007, -9/+3Here are the 6 reasons why people lie. Understanding these reasons help us to recognize BS easierly.

    http://www.philforhumanity.com/6_Reasons_Why_We_Lie.html
    • ozydingo, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Lying for flattery is not altruistic. I won't be so absolute as to say it never can be, but most of the time it is self-serving; whether sinisterly so or not. It can also often be to avoid conflict ("honey, you look wonderful in that dress").

      I'd also group in fear of punishment in with fear of harm.
  • shauncorleone, on 10/10/2007, -2/+19Good points for detecting BS, for sure, and some of them are pretty intuitive so you know that you've probably been caught more times than you know. However, if you have any interest in ridding yourself of the stress resulting from lying throughout your life, check out Brad Blanton's book "Radical Honesty". I'm about halfway through this and it's an interesting concept.
    • istoba, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Yes. He advocates masturbating in front of loved ones.
  • mal1964, on 10/10/2007, -13/+1***** only bull ***** other *****, I will not need the tips.
    • EpilepticPuppy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10Wow, you even ***** yourself. You are a power BSer.
  • messiah, on 10/10/2007, -7/+15if you do happen to be able to read it, footnote number 2 applies to the whole article. I do find it quite amusing and ironic how we are being shown how to detect BS by us reading an article which is completely BS.
    • Pixelpaws, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1If you look, that footnote attaches here: "my best friend still believes his high school girlfriend and I didn’t get it on every time I borrowed his car[2]." I don't see how that applies to the whole article...
      • errorunknown, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2You sir, must be retarded. The footnote is at the bottom and reads "[2] This is of course, complete *****. I have never lied to anyone ever."
        • AdamFromMyspace, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1..and it attaches to the main document where Pixelpaws stated. His point was that sentence was JOKING and the truthfulness of that statement does not apply to the entire article in general.

          ***** dimwits.
  • anthrt, on 10/10/2007, -1/+44http://duggmirror.com/offbeat_news/*****/
  • Rapax, on 10/10/2007, -14/+6Remember to apply the techniques described in the '***** Detection' section, the next time someone is telling you about their religion.
  • FreedomSpanker, on 10/10/2007, -10/+3Here's any easy way. If it's posted on Digg.com it's more than likely *****
    • faskippy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6I think it's hilarious how many idiots get on digg, and say it's *****. And you're here because......???
      • FreedomSpanker, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0***** can be entertaining.
        Just look at 99% of what's on TV.
        I'm here for entertainment not news homie.
  • winmywii, on 10/10/2007, -1/+39This title was censored on my iGoogle page. It said how to detect *******.
    • Phearce, on 10/10/2007, -0/+24Mine too: evidently, iGoogle already has BS detection. ;^)
    • thcobbs, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Likely, Digg censors the public RSS thread since it can get to members who have not selected the "do not censor" tab. Therefore, they are being safe.
      • dezmo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2i have the RSS feed on my google page but it was not censored
  • skinfitz, on 10/10/2007, -6/+78iPhone is the best phone in the world.

    How did I do?
    • eggraid, on 10/10/2007, -4/+5How do yo know that?
    • kaldrenon, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Wow...the article is so effective that I could tell that was ***** before even reading the article!!!
  • Armor1901, on 10/10/2007, -10/+5Now to just keep this article from my girlfriend. Heh

    Just kidding if you're reading this honey
    • jjpertusch, on 10/10/2007, -1/+20girlfriend?? i call *****!

      (it works!)
  • mal1964, on 10/10/2007, -8/+5That is just some old *****, August 9, 2006
    • CaptainValor, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3So? This stuff is timeless. And there a lot of people here who haven't seen it before. So shut up and stop complaining. :P
  • JoshuaH, on 10/10/2007, -6/+1*You found it on the internet*
  • blast0x, on 10/10/2007, -3/+94when I'm fixing someones computer and they want to know what's wrong with it, but it's too complicated to explain, i say "The dynamic flow capacity matrix has unprecedented downtime resistance protocols." and they shutup.
    • drachemorder, on 10/10/2007, -1/+15Ah, yes, the Geordi LaForge approach. Gets 'em every time.
    • dezmo, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1dummy mode on
  • joel2600, on 10/10/2007, -14/+55"the people fighting us in iraq are the same people that attacked us on 9/11"

    "there is no nsa surveillance program targeting american citizens"

    "i'm not part of the executive branch"
    • EpilepticPuppy, on 10/10/2007, -8/+5enough already...this joke was done already. You are not funny or witty.
  • mal1964, on 10/10/2007, -6/+11You can get a good look at a T-bone by sticking your head up a butcher's ass... No, wait. It's gotta be your bull.
    • bobsander87, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1tommy boy! lawl
    • paulisnotdead, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I have no idea why people are digging you down, I personally love tommy boy
  • HotMovies, on 10/10/2007, -7/+6A good way to tell if a politician is lying is to check and see if their lips are moving...
  • ozydingo, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3Wow, that was a verbose article. Could probably be trimmed down to two words: "question everything."

    Well, I guess the philosophy of lying beginning bit was sort of interesting.
    • DiggsOnlyNeoCon, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2I feel like he wrote it, then went and used a thesaurus thinking "how can I make this sound more academic?"
  • DesuKN, on 10/10/2007, -5/+2Overlooked:


    Is it on Digg?
  • thumbup, on 10/10/2007, -7/+1http://www.duggmirror.com
  • Daveecee, on 10/10/2007, -5/+2I think I can speak for a lot of people when I say that I'd rather see an article on how to ***** well.

    Except I already know how, so I didn't really need this article either...
  • mlvassallo, on 10/10/2007, -4/+7I couldn't get past the part where he doesn't even take the time to understand the Creation mythology fully. While he might not respect it he could have the intelligence enough to at least study the symbolism between what we understand "death" to be and the type of "death" that eating from the tree of knowledge gave Adam and Eve.

    Things like that bug me.
    • tacroy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Ya, its rather hard to respect his / her interpretation of ancient texts (Socrates, etc) if he isn't willing to research his first example. Also, his footnote 1 is rather silly. Apparently the "will" in "you WILL die" could not possibly refer to a future event, so God lies...? Ignorance of language should NOT be used as logical underpinning.
      • drachemorder, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Not to mention, even from a purely secular standpoint, wouldn't that objection have been blindingly obvious to the people who wrote the thing? Ancient people weren't so stupid that they wouldn't have noticed a glaring contradiction in their holy writings, so the most logical explanation is that they must have understood it to not be a contradiction in the first place.
        • tzadiel, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2/sarcasm on
          Yes, Ancient peoples certainly wouldn't accept contradictory statements in their holy writings.
          /sarcasm off
    • JohnFlux, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0I get what you are saying, but I agree that it is misleading.

      If I tell you that if you eat an apple that you'll die, and you eat it and don't actually die, and instead I kick you out of the house, would you say that I lied? Even if I claim that of course I meant symbolically die?
      • tacroy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Thats the disconnect. It wasn't symbolic. according to the text, before the apple death didn't exist. So pre-apple adam and eve would have lived forever, when they ate the apple they became mortal and were kicked out of the house. So they WILL die, just not immediately.
    • DiggsOnlyNeoCon, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I agree. Was surprised to see him just purport that "God lied." Then... add an asterisk and it's all okay. Not to mention the jab at religion earlier on (normally I dislike going into religious texts).
    • wendelgee2, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1It's not the "tree of knowledge," it's the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil"
      Knowledge (book learnin') is very different than knowing good v. evil.
    • tzadiel, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0You an' each of the poster's who replied to this statement clearly didn't read footnote 2 at the end of the article wherein the author acknowledges this ambiguities associated with interpreting that scripture.
    • MidgetWannabe, on 10/10/2007, -4/+0Holy crap people, its an example. The seer is pointing at the stars and you're starring at his finger. Jackasses.
    • ceallaighgirl, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Well yeah. I think the author of the article is *****. His premise that God lied (or was even misleading) is false. Adam and Eve did die. I mean, unless they're hiding out in Cleveland or something . . .
  • qwerty1263, on 10/10/2007, -4/+8Your 360 sir, we will have it back to you repaired in 6 weeks probably 4 or less.

    Hows that sound?
    • errorunknown, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Actually people usually get them back in 2 weeks...
    • DarKnight90, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Nice try but you failed.
  • ali1979, on 10/10/2007, -7/+0SITE TEMPORARILY UNAVAILABLE, see http://digg.com/gadgets/*****
  • InternetUser, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Hey, these are great tips if you want to make everyone hate talking to you. I prefer to use stealthier methods so the subject doesn't realise he's being "probed".
    • po43292, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Prove it.
    • cawpin, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Did you just ask him to probe you?
    • r69er87, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1these ARE great tips......especially in business. agreed that you probably should not probe your friends or new acquaintances like this but they are not the ones you should be worrying about.
  • loquax, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11Great article! One thing to keep in mind about really good ***** is that they usually have ***** themselves into believing their own *****. As the saying goes-- "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." The best way to prevent and detect ***** is to recognize our own self-lies, illusions and ***** and do our best to acknowledge and prevent ourselves from B.S.ing. Of course, I am full of crap so take what I say with a grain of salt.
  • Veretax, on 10/10/2007, -5/+5What an idiot, God did not Lie when he said if you eat of the tree he said you will surely die, meaning that if adam and eve had not eaten the apple (we can debate that another time) that death likely would not have come into the world. This guy is just searching for things to backup his premise.
    • JohnFlux, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Sure I can tell you that:

      If you type on digg you will surely die.

      A statement that is 100% technically true.
      • DiggsOnlyNeoCon, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1But we're already mortal. Prior to eating the fruit in Genesis, Adam & Eve had an infinite lifespan. There was no death. It was the eating of the fruit that introduced death.
        • tzadiel, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2This has been done already in this thread, but . . .
          How do you know this? What are the counter-arguments to this?
          Check the definition of facts. A statement isn't suddenly a fact simply because multiple people believe it or have faith in it.
        • cawpin, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2It can be taken as truth until proven false. That is the very basis for many scientific theories.
    • drachemorder, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Also, the Hebrew phrase in question is literally "dying thou shalt die". That generally implies "surely", but it could also be interpreted to mean a process. Certainly the process of decay and death would have begun at that point, even though Adam didn't actually die until much later.
      • tzadiel, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Oh yes, it's clearly certain!
        Wait, I forgot to practice what I just read:
        How do you know this? What are the counter-arguments to this? Do you know any trusted Biologists or Cosmologists who agree that the biological process of decay (otherwise known as the increase in entropy) came into being at a specific time later than the creation of the universe?
    • Cyberen, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2You're just bitter cause the Bible is BS.
    • r69er87, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1ur an idiot.......he leaves a footnote correcting his statement, essentially admitting that he was joking around
  • AgileHeadCogs, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1People who fixate on BS, and don't have a job requirement that forces this state, tend to be complete, apex-level morons. Impossible to personally enjoy, EVERYTHING out of your mouth has to be qualified AND at the end of the day you pretty much want to shove their face into a manhole because of this pathological quest for correctness drives you into a robotic state of pseudo-perfection, which perfectly aligns your emotional/chemical processes to pretty much hate and reject a self-proclaimed, BS-detecting person-thingy.

    These people walk around at 65-70 years old with millions of lines on their faces due to a lifelong process of internal self-disgust and human race revulsion because THEY'VE never been comfortable just enjoying people for who they are, ***** and all.

    The previous has all been stated with one qualifier: I will allow you some room if your entire life has been spent chasing crooks or hiring people. In these cases, when you pass your ass through the work door to put some dinner in your pie hole leave the BS meter on the run INSIDE the building because no one wants a fricking prune-faced BS meter-maid over to chew the rag and push some gaming buttons.
    • Encablossa, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3What?
      • AgileHeadCogs, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0This wasn't written well. I am in the middle of a distracting 3D project so my persuasive abilities have been maligned.

        Point is, FRIENDS who are self-proclaimed BS detectors tend to be real jerks. In my view, MOST, if not all, people who claim a divine or highly-evolved ability to detect lies tend to need a tractor-trailer to haul their rather vast sense of superiority around with them.

        Some of the best relationships are based on honesty but a fair and competent appraisal of each individual's ability to be flat-out wrong must be part of the equation since people that are dictionary-perfect tend to be useless in the context of free-flowing humanity, which tends to include a LOT of imperfection.

        BS detection is useful, absolutely, BUT it needs to be balanced with contextual awareness. When my partner lies about her weight (she doesn't have to because she looks really great) rather than grill her for the discrepancy I value her involvement in my life enough to "accept" this lie. Friends "lie" all the time. When they show up late for dinner and blame it on the kids. This is *****, of course. The guy had to take a crap just as they walked out the door. OK, is he going to tell me, "Hey Agile, were late because I had to drop some bombs on ceramic"? Nope, the kids get the blame. And I don't give the "lie" a second thought because I love these people.

        Hopefully this sheds some additional light on my thought process.
        • rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Sounds like you are rationalizing your lack of a moral compass.
    • faskippy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1O.K., I'm with Encablossa, but I'm ROFLMAO!!
    • errorunknown, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0TOO LONG
  • davediggsit, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11After starting to read the article I realized that I was required to go back to the first rule of detection...expect *****; this article is a long-winded piece of *****...it's like the author is having a joke on the reader. Bummer, man...
    • tzadiel, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Another interpretation is that Canadiens (Celine Dione also has an estranged relationship with the definition of irony) simply don't know what irony is.
  • ddgconsultant, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0It's unfortunate that political correctness and public opinion has been exchanged for fact and truth. Our own laziness to accept "written" word without context or full definition is the true evidence of a weak and ignorant people.

    "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky"

    Now I think I'm understanding where we got the phrase... help, I'm drowning in all this BS.
  • databoy, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1Be prepared to put your money where you mouth is. If you ***** ultimately it will catch up with you. That is why 40% of marriages in Australia end in divorce.
  • faskippy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2My BS detector became finely tuned during the years in which I was raising teenagers. Being married helped too. LOL. "You can't hurt me, I have children"!!
  • anthree, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0Joe lies when he cries.
  • unsolicited, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14People lie when truth hurts their self-esteem.
    • cawpin, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2If you're a weakling turd I suppose you're correct. Personally, I'm not a turd.
  • ronaldinho, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3If you don't want them to detect your BS, then simply don't lie. Be honest with yourself and to people, because you can't be perfect. It's often when people make assumptions that things go awry. I try to be honest as much as I can without hurting someone, especially when it involves bringing out a difficult truth.

    Once I actually told a girl to the face that she was a bitch (and she is), but let's face it, it's better for me to tell her directly than to tell everyone else except her. At least I still consider her a friend to tell her she better change her bitchy ways. And yes, that's why she's still a virgin, and bitches will stay an unwanted virgin. ZIIIING!
    • r69er87, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1great.......but this article is about how to detect *****, not how to rid ones self of *****.
  • asw66, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Umm, regarding the author's comment about On ***** by Harry Frankfurt, the reason why it reads like a serious philosophy book is because Frankfurt is a serious (and very famous) philosopher.
  • OptionNewbie, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Seeking out the worst in people is a dangerous course. I think this article has some good ideas and everyone should be cautious but if you look for liars, you will find them. Additionally, not all forms of BS are bad, softening the blow of the truth can be a necessary evil. I dint want to visit the doctor and be told "your going to die". I would prefer something like " Although you chances of survival are low, we have many new successful treatments for your condition". Like everything in life, balance and good judgment are key.
    • rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Healthy skepticism is not "seeking out the worst in people".
  • DiggDugglas, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0I thought this would be a link to snopes.com
    btw, does anyone know what from the article was BS itself? it all seemed pretty true to me
  • izzie2, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1One way to detect ***** is to ask Tony Stewart..Apparently after Indy he's an expert.
    • cawpin, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I know the family; they aren't *****. They tell it how it is and that's that.
  • effedup, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4at first glance a professional ***** knows that 5 pages of text on BS is complete BS.
  • shibbz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Well it usually has a pretty distinct smell.
  • Error601, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8Read an understand all the logical fallacies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

    The popular ones you'll find on digg are straw man, biased sample, Ad hominem, appeal to prejudice, appeal to majority, faulty generalization, and correlation implies causation.

  • donelson, on 10/10/2007, -7/+5
    One way:

    EVERYTHING coming from the White House is a LIE.

    ...
  • jcpiercy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I usually can smell it first ,, then my BS detector goes off second ,,,
  • cnt2infinity, on 10/10/2007, -8/+8How to detect *****: Just watch Bush give a speech on TV.
    • cawpin, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1How to detect *****: Just watch any politician give a speech on TV.

      There, fixed. It is especially true if they're sitting in the oval office, in the very chair it probably happened in, and directly lie to you about getting blown.
  • psyjoniz, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3damn. sums up the bible in 2 paragraphs.

    FTA: "To recap from the book of Genesis, God tells Adam and Eve not to eat fruit from the tree of knowledge, as pretty as it is, for they’ll die. He wanders off to do some unexplained godlike things, as gods are prone to do, leaving the very tempting, and non pit-bull or electrified fence protected, tree out for all to see. Meanwhile Satan slinks by and convinces Eve apples are good: so she and Adam have an apple snack. God instantly returns, scolds Adam, who blames Eve; resulting in everyone, snakes, people and all, getting thrown out of Eden forever.

    Please note that in this tale nearly everyone lied. God lied[1], or was deceptively ambiguous, about the apples (they weren’t fatal), Satan misrepresents the apple’s power, and Adam, approximates a lie in his wimpy finger pointing to Eve. It’s a litany of deception and a cautionary tale: in any book that makes everyone look bad in just a few pages, is it really a surprise how the rest plays out? "

    __BRILLIANT__
    • mahdaeng, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Actually, God didn't lie. As a result of eating of the fruit, Adam and Eve became mortal - meaning that they would die. All the rest of the characters, of course, were dishonest to some degree or another.
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