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My Half-Year of Hell With Christian Fundamentalists

spiegel.de — When Polish student Michael Gromek, 19, went to America on a student exchange, he found himself trapped in a host family of Christian fundamentalists. What followed was a six-month hell of dawn church visits and sex education talks as his new family tried to banish the devil from his soul.

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  • baroo, on 10/12/2007, -7/+200poor kid.
    • masgrada, on 10/12/2007, -6/+106Hahahah... that happened to a Brazilian foreign exchange student at my high school back in the day. She ended up with Mormons and HATED it.
    • masamunecyrus, on 10/12/2007, -32/+17It seems like he should have been able to contact whoever it was that would be in charge of the exchange program, explain the situation, and then request a new family.

      At least, that's what I'd have done. Luckily, my foreign exchange to Japan several years ago went excellently, so I haven't had to try.

      EDIT: Well, if I had RTFA, "It was only after four months that I decided to change my host family. "
    • gameguy43, on 10/12/2007, -8/+26i got a kinda crappy family for my homestay in japan. they were just plain boring. i sat at home while okaasan watched soap operas. also i felt uncomfortable when my mom hit my little sisters. my stay wasn't that long, and i was being hooked up by the person running the program, so i wasnt in a position to complain. Japan pwns tho, i wanna go back and live in one of the more artsy, edgy places, like harajuku.
    • gardnert1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+75i wonder what would have happened if he had told them he was atheist
    • ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -7/+79This guy reached into the crazy grab bag and drew out a big handful. I've known plenty of Mormons and Baptists and none of them are like that.

      No sex for 17 years? What the hell!?
    • Parasocks, on 10/12/2007, -5/+42they wouldn't want him anymore, obviously.

      As a sidenote, last time I met a mormon, she was dancing naked at a strip club.
    • brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -7/+68"I've known plenty of Mormons and Baptists and none of them are like that."

      The Mormons and Baptists are actually very fragmented churches that have hundreds if not thousands of sects. Most Baptist churches you will find are independent, preaching their own custom brand of christianity.

      I never understood as a christian why some denominations say that drinking alcohol is a sin. You only have to look at Jesus' first miracle (turning water into wine), or Paul telling Timothy to "have a little wine" for his stomach problem to see that it is drunkenness and not drinking that is condemned in the Bible. To believe otherwise would be to believe that Jesus was a sinner.
    • surfit, on 10/12/2007, -6/+23"i wonder what would have happened if he had told them he was atheist"

      It didn't say he was, him being Polish means there's a very high probability that he's catholic or from a catholic family. I think his main point was these people were so stuck in their own weird religious mindset, that they didn't give him much thought and therefore made his life hell.
    • delong, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24@brstirlson:

      I assure you, the "Mormons" are not a highly fragmented religion. The LDS Church rules from Salt Lake. There is one schismatic - the FLDS Church in southern Utah that are polygamists and are a very small and isolated community on the Arizona border.

      As a rule, LDS folks are really the most pleasant, if boring, religious people you will ever meet. Of course, I live in Utah so the missionaries aren't knocking down my door. You really can't tell the difference between a Mormon and non-Mormon. They aren't evangelicals like Baptists, and you'd probably get a real good tongue lashing if you ever made the mistake of comparing the two in front of a Baptist.
    • t3hNinj4, on 10/12/2007, -2/+65No sex for 17 years? That's craz...

      Oh, wait, I'm going on 20. Nevermind.
    • liquidrums, on 10/12/2007, -20/+42I couldn't read past 1 paragraphs of this crap.

      Those so-called "Christians" are nothing of the sort! Those are religious zealots who've lost COMPLETE TOUCH with the outside world and what purpose a Christian's supposed to serve.

      I've been to Poland (Czestachowa, if I spelt it correctly) on a Missionary trip, and I have nothing but the nicest things to say about the Polish people. They were completely warm to my missionary group because we were *real people* (students) who didn't force Christianity down their throats.

      Lead by example, not by rebuking! This host family should be shunned!
    • Mulo, on 10/12/2007, -8/+55This crap makes Americans look like total assholes overseas. A bunch of bible thumping narrow minded primitives.
    • loudthing, on 10/12/2007, -9/+2Anyone seen the movie "Witness"?
    • GliTCH82, on 10/12/2007, -3/+33Coming from a Muslim family, I'm actually surprised to find out that there's a lot in common between what this guy endured for 6 months and how I was raised for years. Of course, the only difference is that by my parents' standards our family is actually considered moderate and normal, and on the other end of the spectrum the crazy ones are the Muslim fundies, which I'm sure don't even need to be mentioned.

      My mom always ends everything she plans on doing with the words "insha allah" which directly translates to "god willing".

      Of course, I don't really do that, and I chose to take only the best from both sides of the world. I like to think of myself as fairly moderate by global standards, and I hold secular views for society and government, leaning slightly towards the conservative side when it comes to issues such as finance, criminal justice, and social welfare.
    • mfratt, on 10/12/2007, -10/+13I would have just had fun explaining to them why their religion, and religion in general is bunk, and watching them get pissed when they can't justify their beliefs. Six months, eh... A week or so would certainly be interesting, though.
    • L0t3k, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@Mulo

      No, actually I'm of the belief that "most of the world" is NOT made up of morons. I think they're probably pretty smart.

      So if they're smart, they're probably rational enough to know that there are wacky folks everywhere... including in their own countries... not just in the US. They're probably even smart enough to know that these kinds of zealots are relatively few and far between, and generally avoidable. They probably also know that there are obnoxious, "know it all" folks out there who more than willing to push atheistic beliefs on people to.

      But I'm just guessing... and who the ***** am I? Maybe just some kid who has actually lived with other families in several other countries on multiple continents. Maybe just some kid who was fortunate enough to travel more of the earth by the time he was 16 than most people will before they die. Maybe, just maybe, someone with a world outlook that wasn't crafted entirely by someone else.
    • brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"There is one schismatic - the FLDS Church in southern Utah that are polygamists and are a very small and isolated community on the Arizona border."

      I beg to differ. There is also an RLDS (Reorganized church of Latter-Day Saints) Church, another splinter group, distinctly different from the FLDS.

      http://www.childbrides.org/history_sltrib_LDS_splinter_groups_growing.html

      This link provides information on other churches broken off of the main LDS church.

      While there may not be "hundreds" or mormon sects, there certainly is more than one.
    • hackwrench, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14The no sex in 17 years isn't the crazy bit. The crazy bit come in where they say they did it to devote their lives to God and still manage to rationalize talking about sex around the dinner table every Monday. Either it's a part of your lives or it isn't. Make up your minds!
    • darthmdh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9The Bible actually explicitly states (in 1 Cor 7:5) married couples should not abstain for too long, and only for a particular reason.
    • 16cards, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Parasocks: clearly 12.5 million are representative of one stripper.
    • GliTCH82, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4@mfratt

      The funny thing about religious folk is that no matter what religion they are they're always able to justify themselves when in doubt. That's because every human being who is serious about religion falls back on their "faith" when science and logic fail to provide a decent explanation for their beliefs. Faith by definition is believing in something blindly, willing to accept an ultimatum purely on a hunch or intuition that there is something there. Most of the time that's implanted in your mind as a result of upbringing, and as such, is almost impossible to remove no matter how much logic or reason you suggest.

      I'm not saying religions are false, but what I am saying is that no amount of science or logic can ever persuade or dissuade someone who's views in life are based on faith.
    • GliTCH82, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1I also wanted to mention that faith doesn't just stop at religion. When you base all of your views on faith you open up a can of worms, and you end up working against the nature of people and society.

      I would image that a lot of the problems we are having in the US government probably stem from this. Bush and Rumsfeld are both devout Christians and because of this, Bush may have had faith in Rumsfeld's ability to perform as the secretary of defense. A lot of Christians in the U.S. probably also had faith that our government wouldn't steer them wrong back in the '04 presidential election. And members of the government at all levels probably had faith in each other's abilities to handle the Katrina disaster.

      Bottom line is, if you have faith you tend to look the other way.

      It really isn't possible for you to be a part of any religion without having some degree of faith, but if you start using that same principle in dealing with people around you it could only lead to disaster, especially if you're a leader or in a position of power.
    • Qazzian, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@GliTCH82

      The definition of faith is not to blindly follow but to be convinced of someone/something’s trust worthiness. Yes there are people who believe things blindly, but a true faith is from someone who is convinced by the facts, either through personal experience or learning. This definition is relevant whether your religious or atheist. Do you believe your position because you have looked into it as much as you can and are convinced of the facts or do you just blindly follow science/priest/family teaching?
      (Hint: try looking at history as well as science)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith
    • Rostin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@Qazzian

      Thank you VERY much for that definition. I doubt it will sink in (you'll probably get dugg down, in fact), but thanks for trying. The common definition of faith (that it's just irrational, baseless, fingers-in-my-ears wishful thinking) is used not because it's accurate, but because it makes thinking about religion convenient.
    • sgbooth, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@L0t3k1 :"... these kinds of zealots are relatively few and far between, and generally avoidable."

      Not to knock your comment, but I don't think you've been to the south yet. You'll find that these zealots are quite numerous down there (hence, the bible belt). I'm from NC and some of my family are fundamentalists almost to this extreme. To me, its discouraging because it has resulted a lot of family trouble and has caused my oldest brother to discard his critical thinking skills in favor of a one size fits all solution (the bible). And to top it off, he think God speaks to him. Now its not fair to say the entire south is like this - but its not at all uncommon to be this extreme.
    • Moosebern, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"I drink three to four bottles of wine a day, smoke 2 packs of cigarettes, have a nasty coke problem, and casually do heroin. Oh, and then there's the hookers and gay men that I sleep with. Is this going to be a problem in this family?"

      I would have been out of there like a bat out of hell.
    • h00paj00, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2How do you keep a Mormon from drinking all your beer on your fishing trip? Invite another Mormon along.
  • axel2k, on 10/12/2007, -12/+125"fundaMENTALists"
    • Hellman109, on 10/12/2007, -14/+94FUNdamentalists
    • iFrank, on 10/12/2007, -79/+7FuNdAmEnTaLiStS?
    • elnerdo, on 10/12/2007, -12/+84fundamentaLISTS


      .. Wait, I think I screwed something up, there.
    • nitsuj, on 10/12/2007, -5/+51
      funDamENTalISTS
    • ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -7/+45FUNdaMENtalists.
    • eplawless, on 10/12/2007, -32/+8fundamenTalIsTS?
    • MrESaulved, on 10/12/2007, -5/+48fundAMENtalists!
    • jodokast, on 10/12/2007, -2/+47Fu.....ah f*ck it.
    • zonk3r, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13head meet inside oven. goodbye cruel world. and weird *****'mentalists.
    • schadenfreude56, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13fundAmeNtALists.

    • sinembarg0, on 10/12/2007, -10/+2funDAMEntalists
    • XZanatos, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3let me teach you ALL what it means:
      "fund" to give money
      "a" prefix meaning 'without'
      "mental" referring to thoughts or brain power
      "ists" or "ism" means people having those afore mentioned qualities or the state of having those named qualities
  • taylorhayward, on 10/12/2007, -11/+128As far as I know they can't hit hosted students. Time for them to learn the words, "f&ck you" in Polish.

    My parents sent me to a Christian Camp. I ran away... twice. I dressed as a devil on costume day, and tormented my captors regularly. I was not welcome back.

    (true story)
    • baroo, on 10/12/2007, -32/+12LOL
    • niteskunk, on 10/12/2007, -30/+14When I first heard this story, I said pretty much the same, that I'd run... but not before having some fun with "My one and true master Satan"
    • kevinmotel, on 10/12/2007, -8/+40i made a religious teacher cry...in 4th grade. i don't even remember what i said, though i feel bad for making her cry
    • psyon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14I got stuck going to a vacation bible school while staying with a friend for a weekend. I was so horrible the whole time I was there, that I got phone calls inviting me back for the next 6 months. I guess they really thought I needed the devil purged from my soul.
    • HoustonRH7, on 10/12/2007, -2/+28I had a similar experience... I was sent to a Christian military school (Chamberlain-Hunt academy, in Port Gibson, MS)... and I'm a radical atheist. They used God as a reason for everthing, and would always pray over you before they paddled you.

      I ran away as soon as I could.
    • GeneralSun, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6You go girl!
    • Memitim, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Heh, if I ever have to kick the ***** out of someone again, I think I'll pray over them. Make it just that much more traumatic. Although the irony is that I'll probably be kicking the ***** out of the next asswipe who decides that they just have to pray for my soul right NOW. Happened to me twice in the past year or so; was there a memo handed out to these nutcases recently?
  • jenny867, on 10/12/2007, -5/+37What a total nightmare.
    • reddevil3, on 10/12/2007, -2/+39I'm a foreign student here in the US, and I had a bit of an unsettling experience down here in Birmingham, AL. I was sitting in the university's library yesterday reading Newsweek which had this on the cover: "The politics of Jesus."

      After reading it a white guy comes buy who says hi, and I say hi back. He sees the Newsweek on the desk and asks me if he can read it. I said go ahead. Then he asks me where I am from, and I tell him (Pakistan). Then he starts: "Oh I knew a lot of Iranis and I don't know why Christians and Muslims fight and fight. We all worship the same God blah blah blah." I tell him I'm actually agnostic. He goes: "O RLY?". He says that he was once an atheist but he was so down at one point that he found Jesus (I get worried at this point). He goes on this rant on how the Gospel and Jesus saved him and how atheism leads to nowhere (He was so loud that everyone in the library was wondering what the hell was going on). I was playing my DS at that time and I had to close it. I made up an excuse that I had a class and then left. The guy was definitely weird.

      Avoid fundies.
  • CopperFalcon, on 10/12/2007, -8/+164One of the dangers of fundamentalism is that it fosters an intractability, an inability to compromise with others who believe differently. They constantly push their religious views on others because they have defined their views as the Truth and disagreeing with them is not a simple disagreement, it's nothing less than rejecting God and embracing Evil. And so people who believe differently tend to be dehumanized in their eyes. When someone tells you that "Muslims are nothing more than savages who need to be nuked", or that "atheists lack religion and therefore lack morals", you can bet that person's dehumanization stems from fundamentalism.

    One of the basic freedoms of the United States is freedom of religion--the idea that one has the right to his own religious beliefs. For fundamentalists, this freedom is in fact a great evil because it prevents them from using government institutions from "saving" people. And so they rail against it, often to the point of denying that separation of Church and State is a fundamental component of the Constitution.
    • escheppa, on 10/12/2007, -11/+24truer words were never written.
    • Yez70, on 10/12/2007, -7/+46Doesn't anyone feel scared the above post could also describe the Taliban?
    • exipolar, on 10/12/2007, -3/+28the Taliban are Muslim fundamentalists if you were not aware. I hate how the media hides the religious aspects of world events in cowardice behind the excuse of "religious respect"
    • bitteroldcoot, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Boy, did you nail it.
    • nogami, on 10/12/2007, -3/+31Yup, there's no great difference from rabid Muslim fundamentalists and rabid Christian (or any other religion) fundamentalists. They've all convinced themselves that they're morally and religiously "above" everyone else and it's their duty to ***** on everyone else's beliefs. And if you can't convert them, or silence them peacefully, well...

      Currently, fundamentalism in North America is largely non-violent, but you don't have to have a great imagination to think that it might not be quite that much of a leap...
    • drybij, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Yeah - Unfortunately my fundamentalist christian boss is exactly how you described... no exaggeration there. Otherwise, he's a nice guy.
    • toppgun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15I actually presented a speech in school today about how religion of all types must be kept out of the public domain and must stay private. I think it went pretty well. It was very controversial. Afterwards a relatively moderate religious kid came up to me and told me it was inappropriate and I should never say that again under any circumstance (said much nicer than how he said it). It proved my point of religious intolerance. I am a junior in high school.
    • RadiatedAnt, on 10/12/2007, -30/+2Isn't the word Atheist an oxymoron???! I mean to say that your an atheist implies that you acknowledge THAT THEIR IS A GOD yet refuse to accept him.
    • zeroduck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@RadiatedAnt:

      No. The root of the word--it's antonym, "theist", is someone who believes in a god. The opposite, would be someone who does not believe in god. It'd be somewhat illogical to say that an "atheist" would believe there is a god, but does not accept him/her/it--with that kind of usage, it'd be near impossible to describe disbelief in god.
    • slipknotrobb, on 10/12/2007, -13/+6The taliban is a creation and product of the U.S. Government.
    • gromnie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@RadiatedAnt --

      Just because I don't believe in God doesn't mean you don't. Hence, "atheist." I acknowledge that the concept exists; I simply don't subscribe to it.
    • slipknotrobb, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4That was beautifully spoken, CopperFalcon. Did you just write that yourself or read it somewhere? If the latter, where did you get it?
  • trghpy, on 10/12/2007, -12/+18Church ain't all bad...
    LEO: I love it here man. The guy up there telling stories, that guys wails on the organ. You can sing as loud as you want. It's almost a religious experience! I kinda think this is what heaven is gonna be like you know. Plus, they'll have an open bar.
  • monergism, on 10/12/2007, -10/+51Find some different Christians. Not all the same. Kinda like the Muslims.
    • woody56292, on 10/12/2007, -7/+44yeah I am christian but just reading about these " fundamentalists" makes me sick. If they really acted like that, then I must say, they are severely misinterpreting the will of God. ( if they are even hearing it )
    • Pharaoh777, on 10/12/2007, -33/+8Religion is religion.
    • ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -6/+22People are people.
    • danielman94, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12I live in a Christian family, and we don't go to church at 6:15, my parents don't go up to people they barely know(or anyone at all) and tell them they have the devil in their heart because they drink, and they wouldn't ask an exchange student to help set up a church. So yeah, they don't represent ALL Christians, just some...odd ones.
    • 32bitwonder, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11@ZenMojo: Depeche Mode completed this thought some time ago:

      People are people
      So why should it be
      You and I should get along so awfully
    • Jerim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I consider myself a Christian. I have Jewish and Muslim friends. We rarely talk about religion. If I were hosting an exchange student the only time I would mention religion would be in the context of American History. They should have been helping him to experience American culture in all its forms.
    • mhuggins, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"Religion is religion."
      "People are people."
      Boys will be boys!!
  • muvment256, on 10/12/2007, -28/+60I've always had some distrust of organized religion as a whole, but recently, its become a serious hate. Religion is the worst thing to happen to an intelligent species. If god does exist, would he have endowed the whole species with intelligence and rational thought and then ask us to ignore these things in order to believe in religion?
    • AbortedFetus, on 10/12/2007, -32/+26Waaaaaaaait a sec here....are you trying to use LOGIC to persuade religious people? Since when do religious retards listen to logic???

      +digg, I agree totally...I grow to hate religion more and more every single day...
    • sebnukem, on 10/12/2007, -26/+21Religion is not only an insult to civilization and intelligence, it's a weapon of mass destruction.

      Kill a man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill everyone, and you are a god.
    • SmokedL, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14@AbortedFetus
      ".I grow to hate religion more and more every single day..."

      You cannot solve intolerance and ignorance by adding hate. Use logic to tear down the walls of ignorance that these people surround themselves with. It's not a perfect tool, or a quick fix, but it's all we have available.
    • delong, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13"Use logic to tear down the walls of ignorance that these people surround themselves with."

      Or here's an idea - leave those people alone. You don't poke rabid raccoons with sticks.

      At a certain point in life you realize that a certain percentage of the population will inevitably hold beliefs that are beyond the pale. You also realize that many if not most people are not susceptible to reason where it implicates strongly held beliefs. It is futile and not a little bit intolerant as well to go around trying to change people's opinions whenever they disagree with you. Especially when they are beyond the pale. Why waste your breath? What possible psychological deficiency would drive you to seek such pointlessness? Live and let live. And live far from the lunatics, and walk away when you find them.
    • muvment256, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7delong, though you make much sense and I would normally agree with you, this religion thing is becoming too much to tolerate. The effects of the current religious and power war along with a breakdown of the separation of church and state is the intolerance that I am railing against. India and Pakistan, the Middle East, the US backing of Israel, the funadmentalist president, and all the rest are in the process of fufilling their prophecy of the apocalypse, and I for one am worried about our planet's future.
    • SmokedL, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10"What possible psychological deficiency would drive you to seek such pointlessness?"

      Have you had a look at the world and history? I guess I have the psychological deficiency that I believe we can do better than that. Averting the daily religion related killings of human beings. Is that pointless?

      The Billions of lives that are less free and happy than they could be in a rational society. Are these lives worthless?

      The Billions that have no better moral compass than a fear of eternal torture, that they have been ingrained with since early childhood, unless they follow largely arbitrary an often directly harmful rules. Is changing this pointless? Is allowing these people to enjoy sex without fear of eternal torture meaningless? Is allowing the homosexuals among these groups to live without fear, and without shame worthless?

      How about the Muslim girls that have their vaginas mutilated? Is saving them from that meaningless?

      How about the Hundreds of millions that are dying from AIDS in Africa while the Vatican condemns the use of condoms. How many could have been saved? Are their lives worthless?

      The list goes on and on. There is very great reason indeed to argue against irrational dogma. The list of lives it has destroyed is horrifyingly long. The lives it has made less than they could have been is far greater still.
    • zeroduck, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@SmokedL:

      "Use logic to tear down the walls of ignorance that these people surround themselves with."

      "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."--Thomas Jefferson...


      the rest of the quote is: "Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus." But I think the first part sums things up pretty well. When we can't break down the walls of truthiness with logic, wit will have to suffice.
    • L0t3k, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4
      You people are starting to blur the line between eradicating hate in the guise of religion, and eradicating religion.

      There's a big logical and ethical difference.

      Billions of people around the world find some kind of happiness and comfort in some religion, and billions of people are motivated to do good things because of their religion. There's no reason to bother these people with vengeful atheism. That's clearly ignorant.

      If your mission is to stop violence thinly veiled as religious justice, than by all means, be my guest.
    • alski707, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1L0t3k brings up a good point, although one problem is that religion doesn’t police itself, if you can’t, or don’t tell your fellow person of religious faith that they may be taking there believes too far, or that they might be reading a certain piece of scripture wrong, or worse, reading allegorical literature as literal truth, then that’s one more step towards fundamentalist believes.

      Now if no-one ever questions any believes of his or her fellow religious people, then no steps are ever taken back towards reason, only forwards to fundamentalism, multiply that over time and the only way to go is further and further right wing fundamentalist, until you eventually end up with something that looks a lot like either a religious state, or the Taliban.
  • SammyJr, on 10/12/2007, -4/+41He lasted a lot longer than I would have. I would have ditched them at the airport. I hate fundies.
  • newyawker, on 10/12/2007, -8/+64Why can't people just keep their damn religion to themselves? What assholes.
    • elnerdo, on 10/12/2007, -52/+11They were keeping it to themselves. HE was in THEIR house.
    • woody56292, on 10/12/2007, -4/+39yeah but they wanted him to help build a church in HIS country. I am all for building churches, but not if you are kidnapping ( not literally ) and using a child against his will. ( he had a choice but it was a very difficult and forced decision )
    • monergism, on 10/12/2007, -32/+2Why can't you keep your opinion to yourself? Same principle.
    • kelkitty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21Also, they don't just DROP exchange students off at someone's house. They volunteered or REQUESTED that they host an exchange student. It was not his choice to be in that house, it was theirs. They asked for a Polish student to come stay with them so they could use him for their own ends.
  • Rndm_Tngnt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20Yeah. That's Winston-Salem, all right.

    It's not so bad as long as you're in the School of the Arts bubble or the Wake Forest booze haze. Otherwise, get out while you can.
  • AbortedFetus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22That's cruel and unusual punishment.
  • culturedredneck, on 10/12/2007, -25/+10i'm sorry that kid had such a horrible experience.

    the thing that bothers me about articles such as these is the "christian fundamentalist" label. surely these folks would qualify... but i've seen figures bandied about that portray christian fundamentalists as a significant portion of the population (15-20%) yet despite having lived in the bible belt my whole life i've never met anyone like these people. the meaning of the term used in the article's title is nothing like its very liberal usage elsewhere.
    • woody56292, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15yeah I live in the bible belt and I see more apathetic " I go to church so therefore I am " Christians. Only time I see people like this is on TV.
    • psyon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I have met those types of people everywhere I have ever gone. Albeit they are a small minority, but they always seem to find me.
  • sebnukem, on 10/12/2007, -6/+22At departure time, I would have bought them a copy of The God Delusion to thank them for their "hospitality".
    • zeroduck, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Dawkins' work would be hardly comprehendable for the uneducated*, unsophisticated type, let alone someone who is not open minded enough to start reading it.

      * Most studies find religion and intelligence and religion and level of education are inversely related.
  • chaimpot0k, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19"When I got out of the plane in Greensboro in the US state of North Carolina, I would never have expected my host family to welcome me at the airport, wielding a Bible, and saying, 'Child, our Lord sent you half-way around the world to bring you to us.' At that moment I just wanted to turn round and run back to the plane.

    LMAO. Shoulda, woulda, coulda!
  • gk128, on 10/12/2007, -6/+20These are the people that give religions a bad name. Sure you love God and all that jazz, but don't force it on those who don't want God's love the way you do.
    • monkeyrun, on 10/12/2007, -22/+7They are just trying to save you from going to hell :(
    • Zanturaeon, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3Word.
    • Gazpacho, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21I've lived in the south all my life, and up until the past year I've always attended church. Unfortunately, spreading the word and bringing lost souls to Christ is a big thing with Christians (or should I say Baptists?). From what I can recall, many preachers would say the more people you helped to convert the more "jewels you would have on your crown in heaven".
    • kelkitty, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8All religions are like that... every religion encourages you to recruit new members. a) they think it is the 'true way' so you want more people to be brought to this realization b) without new people the religion dies.
    • delong, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Actually, not all religions are missionary. The Jews, for example, are not. The Shakers are a defunct example.
    • cphuntington97, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Gazpacho is right. Christians (and probably other religions) believe they will go to hell if they don't do everything in their power to convert you. That's why they try so hard.
    • Daunting, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Memes have a need to replicate. It's viral when it's coupled with irrationality.
    • afpunk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2There are still Quakers, just not in such great numbers as there once was. I grew up in a small town that had an active meeting house and a private school as well. Of course, they are commonly referred to as the Society of Friends. Regardless, they are some of the most caring and tolerant individuals I have ever met.
  • toby34a, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14At least he wasn't Catholic (or he doesn't say). If he was Catholic when he came over, I'm sure that they would've shot him on the spot (or lynched him a few weeks later).

    My problem with fundamentalism does involve making everything "truth". There is truth in religion, but it is mainly ideas and based on faith that you're right. The faith is the main difference; without faith, religion is nothing, and blind belief is NOT faith.

    I'm sure that if I had to spend 6 months with fundamentalists I'd come up with ways in which to prove them wrong (Catholic high school teaches good religious logic) and watch them spin their wheels as I sneak out and hit up a bar.
    • surfit, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4He probably was, the vast majority of Polish people are catholic.
    • Personatech, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"He probably was, the vast majority of Polish people are catholic."

      Yeah, but there's no mention of him trying to attend Mass (boy, *that* would have been a great scene!!)
  • winglord01, on 10/12/2007, -56/+10Poor guy. And religion is not irrational. The universe had to be created by someone right? It was designed too well to be the result of some random "Big bang". God has given us free will to serve him or not. Still, there will be consequences for disobedience. I can't believe people would rather believe that they came from some crap flinging primate or crawled out of some bubbling goo than to believe that they were created by a supreme being. Sad.
    • pintomp3, on 10/12/2007, -7/+20whatever you say "winglord". just because you can't get your head around science doesn't mean you are right.
    • exipolar, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10just think about it for a bit longer
      hint:anything that creates something is a complicated thing in of itself, so something has to explain it's existence first before it can be accepted as an adequate explanation.
    • AbortedFetus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17Science has NEVER relied on "belief". They create hypotheses to explain what they observe and use the scientific process to test those hypotheses. If a hypothesis does not hold up to the scientific process, it is thrown out. We will NEVER be able to prove when and how the universe was created, but we can come up with some hypotheses based on what we observe around us.

      How do you consider yourself an intelligent person and still blindly believe that a mythical "god" created the universe out of nowhere? How does modern religion differ from ancient Greek and Roman mythology that we look back on in disbelief that a group of people believed in such things? Modern religion will be looked back on generations from now just as we are now looking back on ancient mythology. I don't think, however, that religion will disappear completely. People will still always need something to help them cope with death and the questions about the origin of our creation no matter how intelligent as a race we become. People will always need some sort of guide in which to shape their morals and religion satisfies that need with a system based on fear, probably the most effective catalyst. Yes, I am atheist and yes, I am a moral person. I am a moral person because it is the right thing to do to keep a civilized society. I do it for that reason alone, not just because some almighty father-figure is looking down on me judging whether or not I am worthy of eternal peace.
    • kevinmotel, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19"I can't believe people would rather believe that they came from some crap flinging primate or crawled out of some bubbling goo than to believe that they were created by a supreme being."

      I can't believe people would rather believe they came from a dude made of clay and his woman used to be one of his ribs.
    • Ajajadude, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5ooo, a paradox! I'll have to remember that one next time someone pulls out "the universe is too complicated to natural" shpeal.
    • nitsuj, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12"Poor guy. And religion is not irrational."

      Resorting to magical supernatural answers is irrational. Religion does this and is therefore irrational.

      "The universe had to be created by someone right?"

      Wrong. How about it being created by a million gods, or an infinite number of gods? Or how about natural processes? Or maybe something we don't fully understand or haven't yet discovered?

      "I can't believe people would rather believe that they came from some crap flinging primate or crawled out of some bubbling goo than to believe that they were created by a supreme being. Sad."

      Well, the ancestral evidence for descent from primates is conclusive whether you like the idea or not. And nobody says anything about crawling out of bubbling goo - that's just how you've decided to think about it so that you can ridicule.

      On the other hand there is no evidence for your supreme being. Reality seems to be geared with amazing natural processes. Take a look at the world around you - god isn't controlling any of it. Natural processes and physical laws are.

      What's really sad is that you feel the need to attribute it all to some magical mythical being who enjoys punishing the disobedient. Does this make you feel superior in some way? Perhaps somebody told you that you must belief else you'll be punished also?
    • Daunting, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4I always hate when people quickly assume that this "must" have happened because we small infinitesimal species in the wide expansive seemingly limitless universe can't handle it otherwise. Why "Must" it be made by a supreme being? The only instance of beings have been on this earth so already you are coming from a heavily biased position. Why does our experience on this earth dictate what the infinite universe "must" be. How selfish can a person be to claim that everything in existence "must" be this without attempting to prove oneself. I can easily say that it "must" have been made by natural forces, which ultimately is more reasonable but which is also ultimately based on the same unfalsifiable (currently since I haven't provided proof) claim from my experience in this earth.

      Religious affirmation on the universe is one of the most haughty thing a person can do. To claim that here, in this small dirt ball compared to the universe, my limited experience can claim authority over the universe. That right there makes me want to read a science book.

      Science is a different matter all together. Through study after study, From thesis to hypothesis to theory, it is constantly falsified continuously. To claim that the sun is made of certain percentages of gases becomes reasonable and can qualify as "truth" since there is abundant real evidence for it. Saying that it, "must" be this falls flacid into the dirt. Yet so many lives have been lost by it.
    • jgzman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1One could argue that if the universe DIDN'T operate so well, we wouldn't be alive to comment upon it. Sure, only a 1:1,000,000,000,000 chance of life evolving on a planet, but we haven't seen any of the others yet! (at least, not too many)

      Do you dig?
    • raabco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"The universe had to be created by someone right?"

      No, not right.

      Alternatively:

      If anything that exists requires a creator, and god exists, then who created god?
  • Tordenflesk, on 10/12/2007, -23/+30Religion's all just a bunch off fairytales anyways. Pure *****.That family must be retarded or something
    • woody56292, on 10/12/2007, -26/+15why do people always feel the need to spread their anti-religious views every time the subject of religion comes up. Yeah these people are crazy, does that mean they aren't telling the truth? ( even if they are misconstruing and abusing it ) no!
    • pintomp3, on 10/12/2007, -2/+25they have every right to believe what they believe as truth. forcing those beliefs on someone else is wrong.
    • hitori, on 10/12/2007, -13/+8So the billions of religious people around the world are retarded, huh?

      Next time, try to realize that the point of the whole article is that FUNDAMENTALIST Christians are insane, much like fundamentalist anything.
    • exipolar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20@hitori

      no matter how many people believed something false, it would still be false.
      The problem is that humans will take that amount into consideration as an assumption of it's truth, which is still an assumption and not reason
    • javip, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4hitori

      yes
    • 60days, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6hitori - not retarded, just equally wrong. Most people balance the words of their Book with moderation (because the big Books all have pretty horrific examples of morality & social conduct in them). Thats what differentiates them from fundamentalists, who simply read, then do (which is a very pure form of faith really).

      If only the moderate people would realise that what separates them from these 'crazy' fundamentalists isn't faith, but their own choices of rationality and conscience (sorry, 'personal interpretation of the Book') then they might realise that the goodness in their life comes from them and not a unique 'true' god out of the thousands we have worshipped on earth.
    • SmokedL, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8On the topic of something being true, any rational person should agree that it cannot be true while contradicting itself. Lets apply that test to the bible shall we?

      http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

      Seems the bible fails that test horribly.

      And if you are about to come with the obvious counter, that the bible is written by imperfect humans, well that's exactly my point. Now please explain to me why you base you morals on a massively self-contradictory two millennia old book written by imperfect humans?
    • darthmdh, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3@SmokedL:

      If you're going to start that argument, try arming yourself with something better than a biased source (check the references - the only Christian resource quoted amongst a wealth of athiest propaganda is a known flawed (in some parts) translation of the Bible).
      Also, each so-called "contradiction" is based on taking two verses, most if not all from different books, completely out of context. If you want a bigger laugh, check out what some of these supposed contradictions actually are. I mean, both the personal and spiritual significance of how many times the ***** crowed before Peter denied Jesus is zilch and in every case quoted what Jesus prophesied took place in a non-contradictory manner - what are they trying to argue again?

      What irks me most about this site you've referenced is that their ignorance is significantly highlighted by the fact they have completely failed to mention in their list every single one of the actual passages theologians acknowledge could be taken in a contradictory manner (I believe the count is four, I can look it up if you care). This is no doubt because they have failed to do adequate (or any) research into this side of the argument, instead falling onto re-hashing the works of other biased, ignorant kooks.

      It doesn't take too many brain cells to support or argue practically any point you can think of from the Bible, its a collection of close to 70 books covering thousands of years of history and therefore obviously has a lot of words, a lot of geographical locations, a lot of cultures, and itself is composed of at least 3 languages in the original manuscripts (hebrew, aramaic, greek). Random sampling simply must, because of the sheer volume, collate practically anything you want to make it say. Reading it in that manner defies every logical manner and teaching of reading any kind of book and an argument built on that illogical basis can hardly stand.
    • SmokedL, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@darthmdh
      "f you're going to start that argument, try arming yourself with something better than a biased source (check the references - the only Christian resource quoted amongst a wealth of athiest propaganda is a known flawed (in some parts) translation of the Bible)."


      Right, I'm not allowed to cite atheists when questioning irrational faith. No of course not, that would be unfair wouldn't it. I really should look to a priest for my information when I do that.

      You go on to say something I agree wholeheartedly with though!

      "It doesn't take too many brain cells to support or argue practically any point you can think of from the Bible"

      "Random sampling simply must, because of the sheer volume, collate practically anything you want to make it say. Reading it in that manner defies every logical manner and teaching of reading any kind of book and an argument built on that illogical basis can hardly stand."

      Now your utterly wrong about how to read literature that actually make sense. I shudder to think what would happen if scientists took your view on "reading any kind of book". However, in regards to the bible, you are absolutely correct. You cannot make any sort of rational argument based on taking what is in the bible literally. And if you cannot take it literally, and possibilities for interpretation are as you yourself say, unlimited, then whatever rules or wisdom is claimed to be extracted from it is truly baseless.
  • Miyazaki, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25I genuinely feel sorry for the guy, that must have been a horrible experience. But this line made me laugh.

    "I hated that sentence. When I didn't want to go to church one morning, because I had hardly slept, they didn't allow me to have any coffee."

    The horror!!!
  • oOKuo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Indeed poor kid, this is sad .
  • Computer_Kid, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11I had neighbors like that.

    I like the south park approach, remove all -isms in the world.
  • SineNomen, on 10/12/2007, -15/+11I'm not sure who's more foolish. Religious nuts or the people who generalize an entire religion because of them.
    • stansel, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2I've got a better one for you…

      I’m not sure which is worse. Generalizing all WWII-era Germans as evil, or being Hitler.
    • delong, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3"I'm not sure who's more foolish. Religious nuts or the people who generalize an entire religion because of them"

      The most foolish are the people that try to debate religious nuts to "show them the true way of un-religion". Apparently, some people like high blood pressure.
    • SineNomen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4That analagy is hardly fair, if anything, it'd be "I don't know which more foolish, being a Nazi soldier, or generalizing all German people as bad".


      Even still, the beter analagy would be something more like "I don't know which is more foolish, being a PS3 fanboy, or writing off the system solely because of those fanboys."


      At any rate, the point is that generalizing an entire religioun because of a few people who don't even follow said religion as they should, simply because they're the crazy, sometimes vocal minority is foolish.

      Anyone who's read the Bible can tell you that, while their beliefs may be, their conduct is not at all Christian. To make any sort of conclusion jugdment about Christians based would be quite wrong.
    • raabco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2 "Who's the more foolish - the fool, or the fool who follows him?"
      -Obi-Wan Kenobi
  • mdavis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14This poor guy. I grew up in the South and this sounds similar to my upbringing. I really sympathize with this guy, because I felt the same way. I couldn't wait to graduate and get the hell out of there.
  • a1programmer, on 10/12/2007, -19/+4bury this.
  • dicerandom, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7The funniest part about this whole thing is that Poland, as everyone knows, is where Popes come from. *Not even future Popes like American fundamentalist Christians*.
    • colincornaby, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I suppose this is why the current Pope is German?
    • delong, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8One Pope in 2000 years is a Pole and Poland suddenly becomes the place where Popes come from? Is that what your mommy told you, right after she explained how the stork works?
  • milamberdob, on 10/12/2007, -14/+11Religion is Poison!!
  • MackPrime, on 10/12/2007, -6/+18inbreeding does that to folks.
  • shadekeiko, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4And I thought my Japanese host family was a bit psycho! Makes me appreciate my experience a little more.

    Nevertheless, those fundies freak me out.
  • adam84a, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23Wow, I read the comments before reading the story, and expected this to be an exageration of a family that just tried to share it's faith with their guest...... boy was I wrong. I'm a Christian, some may even consider me a 'fundamentalist' but these people are insane, and after reading that story, I was only able to draw one positive thing from it.... they aren't currently breeding.... thank God !

    Things like this probably anger Christians more than any other group because those of us that actually have read the Bible, know this is not how Christ would have us behave.
    • Parasocks, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Think how the muslim people feel.
    • Vouksh, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2@adam84a
      Amen brotha, amen!
    • javip, on 10/12/2007, -10/+6adam84a

      you've actually read the bible and STILL believe? wow.. not sure what to make of that
    • arnaudh, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13Which part of the Bible? That book was written, copied, translated, retranslated and selectively assembled by many different people over a long period of time. Anybody who thinks the Bible is the word of God is either uneducated or delusional.
      Don't get me wrong, it's a great book. But reading the Bible is a bit like reading the anthology of a bunch of different writers translated by various scribes, some of whom must have been really high on something.
  • lokean, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Those fundies are the ones possessed by the devil.
  • joshman5k, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Well if he wanted to know what america was like...

    you gotta feel sorry for him,
    though I think i would have enjoyed the ride for the first week or so..
  • iGern, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Understandable, but I think exaggerated.

    I wasn't surprised to see 'Fundamental Baptist' in there, tho. :)
  • omega1045, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18Of the may things that really bothers me about American Fundamentalist Christians, one of the biggest is that they take their English translated version of the bible as being the truth, period. If you try to cite passages that are different in the original Greek than they are in English they go off on you. The bible has radically changed in some places over the past 1900 years as well, just due to copy problems. So which is the truth? Is an old bible we may uncover from hundreds or thousands of years more righteous than one we would find in a baptist church today? These various translations can results in very different interpretations of what the bible says. On top of that, Fundamentalists will choose the passages they want to follow (hate homosexuals) and the ones they don't (it is bad to touch dead pig skin, genocide is OK as long as it is against a group that does not share you religious beliefs).
    • Ajajadude, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Some people tend to cover their ears and sing really loudly when you tell them that. The number of so-called followers of the Bible think homosexuality is evil, but pissing on the poor is ok. Too much picking and choosing done by fundamentalists, if you ask me.
    • nogami, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Not to mention that people who take the bible as fact are seriously deranged to begin with. If they'd just accept it as "moral fables" that suggest how you should live your life - I'd have no problem with that.

      When they try and defend the bible as fact, it's verging on pathetic. If you want more detail, just watch Penn & Teller's "*****!" episode on it...
    • raj2569, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0if English is good enough for Christ, it ought to be good enough for every one ;)
  • baxtermadux, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8religion is all about self loathing
  • twisterX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5He must have been crazy to stay with them for like 6 months. Hes 19 and I would have just hopped back on the plane. If i were forced to stay i wouldn't be doing what they told me. Screw them. The only thing they could do is send him back and that would be the best thing that could happen.
  • upsidedork, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17And yet they claim it's the gays who're recruiting children.
  • winglord01, on 10/12/2007, -31/+7Pintomp3, you arrogant bastard. Does my religion affect my intellect? Not at all. More than likely I'm smarter than you. Have you ever seen a miracle? Well, I have. It involved cancer. And guess what? The doctors gave up on that person a long time ago. And after prayer, she was cured. No trace of the cancer. So much for your "infalliable" science.
    • abovejesus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10i really don't care
    • AbortedFetus, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11ROFL

      Stories like this tickle me. My grandmother is the most devout Catholic I have ever met. She's not "fundamentalist" but she is VERY faithful and has never missed a week in church. When my grandfather developed colon cancer, I'll be damned if she wasn't praying 24/7. Now I'm sure based on your belief in prayer that he is now just fine. WRONG. So much for your "infallible" prayer.
    • arnaudh, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Well, there's flawed logic for you right there.
    • kingace, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8@winglord:

      I think you let your passion for religion cloud your... "intellect," because that comment made no sense.

      And I'm pretty sure the only miracle you saw was that of modern science.
    • sebnukem, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4My Winglord. You just made a very strong statement that religion does affect intellect. Yours (among others).
    • lustre, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Anyone have anything against infallible coincidence?

      The church of Coincidentalism?
    • javip, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I feel more sorry for winglord than Michael Gromek.. Michael only had to endure this crap for 6 months.. winglord has to live in his delusional state all his life!
    • zeroduck, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2So, he's an arrogant bastard.. but you're probably smarter than him? Somewhat hypocritical, methinks.

      I really hate when people claim that they're "smarter" than someone else. How do you judge intelligence? ACT/SAT scores? Grades in school? Success in the workplace? IQ Scores?

      Really, that argument is a "my dick is bigger" argument for people who don't have the goods to fight that one.

    • raabco, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4So god gave someone cancer.This person went through painful surgery and chemo for years. This person also begged god to remove the cancer the entire time. Finally, god decided they 'got it' (apparently) and removed the cancer?

      Your god is an *****.

      Don't believe me? (Re)read the book of Job.
    • siszam, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1You are smarter. Only the fool says there is no God.
  • npsken, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15"My host parents hadn't had sex for the last 17 years because -- so they told me -- they were devoting their lives to God."

    Last I checked, God Saying, "Be Fruitful," does not mean, "Don't have sex."

    Also, how can liking wine be having the devil in your heart? Wine is supposed to be the blood of Christ.
    • muvment256, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13shuddup and let these people drop out of the gene pool, for the sake of the future of humanity.
    • npsken, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9So would I be considered "one of those people" because I'm Christian? Let me assure you that I am not crazy although I am a libertarian (People Gasp at that one. A Christian Libertarian?)
    • zitch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6npsken: Let's not put words into other people's mouths, now. I would think muvment256's "these people" was referring to the foster parents in the link, not all Christians.
  • basye, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16This really pissed me off! We've hosted numerous students in our home, and not one time forced anyone to pray, go to church, preached to them, etc. It's always voluntary, and we are careful to respect their space. These kids are far more mature than most American kids the same age, and they are usually curious enough to want to know what this part of our culture is all about. What that host family did was abusive, and is a shame to those of us who try to do it right.
  • imcompa, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4That is just wrong. We need like a Robin Hood rescuing kids like that...
  • Phoebe911, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I once mistakenly went to a seventh-day adventist school. That was as awful, if not more, as poor Michael. They ascribed every single difficulty of my life to the fact that I don't believe in God. No dance is allowed and no shopping, working ,study or even laundry is allowed on Sabbath. Haven't met any one of them yet? You'd better go and see one of them.
  • stonedgeek, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3I this reminds me of when I moved in with my religious grandmother for 3 weeks just as I was at my 'agnostic-to-devoted-agnostic' transition stage. At this stage of my life I was unaware that christians hated athiests and agnostics (and everyone else). It was a very eye-opening experience.

    • npsken, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Thank you for broadly generalizing the Christian community.
    • stonedgeek, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7I have no problem broadly generalizing the christian community because:
      a. Other christian groups generally accept their fascist peers
      b. Even more moderate christian groups support the idea of converting unbelievers
      c. The idea of sending missionaries to poor countries to convert them away from their traditional cultures never sat right with me and is generally accepted by all christians
      d. The idea of teaching children your (or any religion) from the earliest possible age is in my mind exactly the same as brain-washing.
      e. Christianity has so much power in my (australian) culture that even agnostics like me had to attend religious education at school.

      I have plenty more reasons. I can go on.
    • zitch, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2stonedgeek:
      a. I find that many other christian groups *do not* generally accept their fascist peers. They simply have better things to do than to speak against it.
      b. *Any* religion is like this. Not just Christianity. The moderate Christians that I know do tend to frown on beating non-believers over the head, though.
      c. I never got the impression that "missionaries" are generally accepted by moderate Christians.
      d. Much of what parenting consists of *is* brainwashing. Frankly put, this is not necessarily bad, as it does instill basic morals and other behavior beneficial to society in general in children before they gain the ability to think for themselves. It *can* be over-done, though.
      e. Funny, I'm saying all of this as an agnostic, leaning towards athiesm, while I lived all my school-life in the Bible-belt, U.S.A. You being forced to attend religion in school is a separate issue than the religion itself or the people that practice it (That your government is letting a sect get powerful enough to force that on others).

      That said, I do have to say that the fundies and born-again Christians I've met are, indeed, bat-***** insane.
    • stonedgeek, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3a. You have better things to do than stop fascist members of your own religion forming an "army" to be used against people who don't believe what they believe? Thanks, that will be a lot of comfort when I'm sitting in a concentration camp.
      b. "They're doing it so it's ok for us to do it". Very mature. You don't think I'm pissed off a muslims for tolerating their extremist brothers?
      c. Last time I checked this was still happening. When I was at school I got the impression that it was accepted. One of my teachers left school for "missionary duty" in Indonesia. So many cultures have been raped by this practice over hundreds of years but I don't see any signs of it stopping.
      d. Adult christians are the product of their childhood. My personal experience is that most adult christians have a thinly veiled (or even open) hatred of non-christians. My parent's never taught me to hate anyone and they never lied to me.
      e. Is it a separate issue? I was never required to attend Buddist studies. My point here is that christianity doesn't just indoctrinate their own children, everyone else's children get a dose too.
  • Ajajadude, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3After reading this, I am SO glad my parents are too liberal to be into the whole forcing-religion-down-my-throat thing....well, for the most part. I still had to go to church on Sundays (a Unitarian church)
    • lustre, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Hah! So did I but they didn't really *force* me to go. Good ol' Unitarian Church. Never really could figure out what they were selling. I did get laid on a church "retreat" once, though. That was a good religious experience.
    • Ajajadude, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2That's what I like about the Unitarian church, they aren't telling you what to believe. Apparently, Unitarian Universalism is where interfaith couples tend to end up.
  • kingace, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8That would make a FUNNY movie.
  • MSTK, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8The good news from the story - the couple aren't creating any offspring.
  • dcoolidge, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11"God please save us from your followers"

    I love that bumper sticker.
  • kelkitty, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5At least they remembered Poland...

    :3
  • johnroth, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Hey guys. I think a lot of Christians have it wrong, and it's making God very depressed because he doesn't have near the power everyone think he does.

    I run the high risk of making me sound like a ***** crazy *****, but hear me out. God came to me in a dream. He saved me from death and brought me to his job. He works in an office with a bunch of other gods, an office called Earth. He showed me off to all his friends, and showed me the program he and the other gods use to... how can I explain it, "debug" Earth. The way a male Hindu god explained it to me was that Earth (And life itself, really) is like a giant MMO where all the players don't know they're playing. The server will run perfectly forever and the gods have the ability to "patch" things. But they can't make us do anything, really. Sure, they can give us divine inspiration, which we sometimes get and use and sometimes we completely miss it.

    The gods don't have as much control as a lot of people think they do. In fact, we're pretty much out of control now. All they can do is hope we find a way to really get in touch with them. They could come down here and visit us, but a lot of the gods don't like doing it. It was the last thing the Hindu god told me... God came down here himself once, a long time ago. He got pretty burned by the whole experience and never wanted to come back. It was then that I noticed God was pretty depressed. All of them didn't seem very happy.

    Thats my two cents.
    • vi0cs, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Is this Scientology? Or the matrix? Or a mixture of both?
    • nitsuj, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10"I run the high risk of making me sound like a ***** crazy *****"

      May I suggest a title for your post: 'When risk becomes certainty'
    • muvment256, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Dude, stop smoking the crack. Or at least stop smoking it right before bed.
    • Memitim, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Makes as much sense as any of the other religions I've read about, except maybe Buddhism. Although I suppose that's not really a religion. In either case, there's a crapload of money to be made in the religion game so build a church and get to converting.
  • vi0cs, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I know most religious people aren't like that, but you know good and well that kid will never look at the bible again. Some things he explains are some the reasons I turned away from organized religion.
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