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Chinese "Women" Cheat their Way to Gymnastic Gold
nbcolympics.com — Accusations of age falsification have swirled around the Chinese team and have intensified after news outlets found official documents stating alternate (and younger) birth dates for three athletes: He Kexin, Yang Yilin and Jiang Yuyuan.
Babblin5- 2624 diggs
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- billjimbob, on 08/13/2008, -27/+392Lol, I watched part of it on TV (in between the Michael Phelp's races)... a few of these Chinese girls could have passed for 8yrs old (being that small is a huge advantage, apparently). The announcers said these girls were taken out of daycare when they were 3 years old to train for the olympics. They aren't athletes, they're gymnastic machines.
And I know the article mentions removing the age restriction as an option, but it has to be dangerous being that small while flipping around in the air like that. The US girls were jacked and looked like they could take a punch or two, but the Chinese were rail-thin.- Paigewithlove, on 08/13/2008, -40/+66The Chinese girls may have looked young to the eyes of non-Asians, but to say that they can pass as an 8 yr old? The little girl that lip sync'd the Motherland song at the opening ceremonies was apparently 9 yrs old and the gymnasts definitely looked older than her, alternatively, I guess you can say that 9 yr old lip sync'ing girl could pass for a younger age too.
A lot of Chinese girls are rail thin. I know some Chinese girls who are in their 20s and can't fit into adult women sizes in North American stores and sometimes have to resort to going to the children's section. The US girls weren't jacked, they were just out performed that night. They still got silver and that's still outstanding in the olympics.- diggduggDOOM, on 08/13/2008, -2/+100I read that 'jacked' as a reference to muscle mass, not having medals stolen.
- einrobstein, on 08/13/2008, -3/+51By "jacked", billjimbob meant "buff". Not "stolen".
- friday1970, on 08/13/2008, -8/+37My wife who is Asian could definitely tell that most were younger than 16. She placed them one of them to be at least 13.
- noumuon, on 08/13/2008, -13/+32and my wife who was chinese said they very well could be 16...
- ptsuk, on 08/13/2008, -41/+4Getting silver is the worst thing you could do.
Gold = Number 1!
Silver = Not good enough to get Number 1! (Ultimate Loser!)
Bronze = Good enough to get a medal, but not in contention to even remotely get near being the best, and at least you're not that 2nd place loser silver!
;) hehe - omniatlas, on 08/13/2008, -10/+21The japanese synchronized diver for the USA team looked like she was 14. I don't see anyone up on arms over that.
- Paigewithlove, on 08/13/2008, -6/+6@ diggiuggDOOM and einrobstein.
Thanks. I read it wrong. :P - LemonChicken, on 08/13/2008, -5/+4@ptsuk, Yeah, tell me that when you win a silver medal in the Olympics.
- saranagati, on 08/13/2008, -6/+7no, the chinese girl who actually sang the song was 8 or 9, the girl who lip synced was much younger.
- kwelling12, on 08/13/2008, -0/+22@omniatlas: They don't have the same restrictions in diving. For instance, one of the men's synchro divers for the UK is 14.
- rockstar1o9, on 08/13/2008, -3/+13I'm Asian and I still think they looked young. Like 8, 9, 10 young.
- karaokekidd, on 08/13/2008, -8/+40I'm Arab and my wife is Finnish, and we both thought they looked too old.
- Wrangler76, on 08/13/2008, -2/+14Um, China is not the USA. They can pick their kids over there and get them to become gymnasts. Obviously they would pick the smallest/lightest, which = late bloomers. What happened to innoncent until proven guilty- a principle our society takes so much pride in?
- humperdeath, on 08/13/2008, -10/+3Well, regardless, these complaints only come out now that it is over. The protest should have been made before. Too late to cry now. (And I am NOT Chinese) American girls should not be sad. Look at the American Men, So thrilled to get BRONZE! HO-RAY for those guys!!!!!
- DaFunk, on 08/13/2008, -2/+13@humperdeath - Actually, the New York Times had an article about this almost 3 weeks ago. And of course it's going to surface again right after the entire world saw their team compete.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/sports/olympics/ ... - Tolzmaniac, on 08/14/2008, -0/+8@noumuon:
She WAS Chinese? What happened? - CedEx, on 08/14/2008, -7/+5So if the Chinese gymnasts were younger, doesn't that mean the everyone lost to children? Grown women couldn't beat children?
Just something I've noticed, is that all female gymnasts look younger than their age, and most are below average in height/weight. - perfectsilence, on 08/14/2008, -2/+5I went to high school with a guy from Hong Kong and he didn't hit puberty til he was 16..
- amatyarakshasa, on 08/14/2008, -3/+1Dugg for Jacked!!
- chockZ, on 08/14/2008, -5/+40I'm white, my wife is Japanese, my dogs are Brazilian, my eldest son is Black, my second youngest daughter is Puerto Rican, my cleaning lady is South African, my fifth grade teacher was from Eastern Europe (not sure where exactly), and there is no way those girls were older than 11.
- Spudster, on 08/14/2008, -3/+5Regardless of age, the Americans legitimtely lost their gold medal to the Chinese. If you watched the competition, you would have known that the American gymnasts made MANY fatal errors in their performance. One girl flat out fell during two different routines for example.
- BenKenobi88, on 08/14/2008, -4/+4Spudster, that's not regardless of age. It's possible that the Chinese would have made MORE mistakes than the Americans, if they actually used 16 year olds, who are bigger and more likely to make mistakes than a couple 14 (or younger) year olds. That's the whole goddamn point.
- jamdogg, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1Wouldn't that make it more amazing? That a group of 10 year olds beat the rest of the worlds adults?
- screamthenrun, on 08/13/2008, -6/+55Being younger than 16 [at the correct time in one's physical development] can give you a major advantage.
I think we all went through that period in life where we realized that we couldn't do as many pushups or pullups or repetitions of other exercises because of the way our bodies develop.
I remember that there was a time when I could do over a dozen pull-ups when I was about 10 years old, but now at 18, I can't do nearly as many.
And it's not due to being out of shape, it's just the way bodies develop. Now I can run farther and faster than I could when I was 10, but I can't do as many pullups because of the way muscles and bone structure develop.
Disregarding anything that the Chinese may or may not have done, the age restrictions should definitely stay in place for Olympic competition. That being said, assuming that the Chinese followed the regulation, they definitely deserved to win. Our team had too many mistakes-- they're Olympians after all, and something happened. Maybe it was pressure, maybe it was nerves, but unfortunately it definitely was not a gold-medal performance by the US women.- MOJIRA, on 08/13/2008, -1/+11They should have different Olympic classes, like boxing. Divide the athletes up by age or weight.
- Stroggoth, on 08/13/2008, -11/+5>And it's not due to being out of shape, it's just the way bodies develop.
Just keep telling yourself that. ;) - Rotkiv, on 08/14/2008, -3/+10US did put on a gold medal performance, China just did a better one.
- walugi, on 08/14/2008, -9/+3Man, get real. It's because your ***** sedentary not because your body has mutated. I know heaps of people (including myself) who've kept just as strong all through highschool. 13-18
Exercise more. - MrChunks, on 08/14/2008, -1/+4You're 18? You should be at your physical peak! You talk like a man in his 30s or 40s.
- lennybird, on 08/14/2008, -1/+3I both heard and read that your body peaks around age 21, so to say you're declining at age 18 is ridiculous [unless what I've read/heard is incorrect]. I'm 17 and after lifting and playing soccer, I can still do 6-8 pull ups. I never tried going for a max. That aside, I'm not a very well built person: I only weigh 150. Though it's an improvement to 2 years ago when I weighed a measly 120.
I imagine what happened with you is that your body's muscles were more balanced before. the ratio of strength in your arms/back to your weight was better back then. You are correct in the fact that it is easier to gain/maintain flexibility at a younger age. - screamthenrun, on 08/14/2008, -7/+4@lennybird & everyone else insulting my shape...
I'm not declining lol, I can run a 5k faster than all of you... and then do it again
I'm just speaking from a gymnastics standpoint... when you are very young, the required bodily motions or whatever you want to call them for gymnastics are easier for a number of reasons...
Your joints are extremely flexible; the equipment used is easier to use for the most part when you are younger;
I'm not sayiing that people don't get in better shape as they get older.. I'm saying that your body is predisposed to performing certain functions well depending on your age...
Gymnastics is easier when you are that young if you are training at the level that olympians train... that being said, something like running or swimming is different because you need base mileage to succeed.. so it's virtually impossible for someone who is 11 or 12 to beat a 20 yr old Olympian in a race.
@walugi
let me know the next time you go out for a 13 mile run! - screamthenrun, on 08/14/2008, -0/+2now that i take a second look at lennybird's comment.. the second paragraph i agree with
- TheCamino, on 08/14/2008, -6/+1
screamthenrun-
Seriously. Why should we be proud of your shape? I guess I missed the memo that we all need to be as arrogant as you.
Run your little pants off, dearie. I'm going for a smoke and a beer.
It's your life, and if you want to feel better than others for taking a few laps, well, go for it.
After all, we're just living our lives according to your standard, so I guess I am just going to have to be a failure.
Maybe you can push over a kid in a wheelchair along the way, just for fun.
It'll definitely make you feel superior...master of the shoes. You're going to live forever if you're fit! - phenom2k7, on 08/17/2008, -0/+1The opposite has happened to me. I've become stronger the older I get. That's simply because of my life style.
Your body adapts to your daily needs. That's all that needs to be said.
- bobartig, on 08/13/2008, -4/+45Our girls were totally "jacked" looking out there. I remember watching women's gymnastics 12 years ago, and the ladies were much more delicate.
This year's team is like "how come the US Women's gymnasts have no necks?"
Modern olympic training must be unreal.- triad203, on 08/13/2008, -2/+32Have you seen the ***** they have to do in order to compete there? That ***** would break me like a little ... china doll.
- NachoBusiness, on 08/14/2008, -1/+6It's so weird how like 4 guys in the swimming events break the world record in every race. What the hell? How are they so much better than the guys just 4 years ago? Did people really learn to swim faster? And Spitz's times wouldn't even come close to qualifying him now.
- EtherGnat, on 08/14/2008, -0/+8@NachoBusiness
It's a combination of the pool (wider and deeper) and the high-tech new suits (less drag). Athletes are also able to make more money now which leads to more training, and technology is improving training as well. - jjesusfreak01, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1Also, they do alot of study into the body chemistries (reducing lactic acid buildup) and they have been refining the exact physical motions that make for the most efficient strokes.
- KJSatz, on 08/14/2008, -1/+1Finally, Michael Phelps started weight training after 2004.
- aztuscani, on 08/13/2008, -8/+23Not to mention one of the chinese girls have a missing front tooth.
- Spudster, on 08/14/2008, -7/+2Negative, that was from a North Korean competitor a few olympics ago.
- deathfix, on 08/14/2008, -1/+3"she fell"
- niCK1010, on 08/15/2008, -0/+1"could take a punch"
- merrychristmass, on 08/13/2008, -18/+9for the American girls team i have two words:" anabolic steroids much?" I will eat my shoe, if i am wrong :)
- nhansen, on 08/13/2008, -12/+34Jacked US "womens" Team = bronze mystic tans, and the look as if they were all twin sisters.
The announcer who inferred that it's wrong that the girls are "taken from day care" at a young age in China is totally hypocritical. The US gymnasts I can almost guarantee have been in intense daily training since a very very young age - pushed ever onward by jiggity-jacked parents looking for a little glory. At least the Chinese don't make the families pay for the years of training...they get a roof over their head, education, and regular meals. That's more than many girls (in China) will ever have.
And besides, the performances I saw of the US team were not good, or not up to the standard I've watched in the past. One or two great events for one athlete - but over all, the US team was off. Sore losers I'd say - Drama anyone?- fokov, on 08/13/2008, -2/+12Your comment about training kids young is correct. The Russians did the same thing with their athletes and so does the USA, but we aren't government sponsored as much. Just look at all the NHL players that you see around the world. They were skating on ice just after they learn to walk. Then they are put in schools that give good education while training them for the NHL. Hypocrites is exactly right. Besides, how would someone in china be able to compete against the world without someone backing them financially? We always complain that China has horrible human rights issues, yet when they give a better life to the potential winning athletes some people cry foul.
- EtherGnat, on 08/14/2008, -3/+1The children aren't really given any choice in China, however. Yes, some parents in the US push their kids brutally even if they don't want to too--they're major league assholes too.
- LacY, on 08/14/2008, -1/+5I feel like the difference is that in the US, the parents will be paying a lot of money for their kids to be in these gymnastic camps, etc. In China, the parents push them into it to *make* money. There have been a lot of stories of young Chinese gymnasts telling their parents that they want to come home/stop, and being pushed back into it and told to do it for their families. I think there's some pretty f'd up stuff in the US with gymnastics, but it's nowhere near as bad as it is in China.
- DuffyDirect, on 08/14/2008, -1/+1uh the US hockey olympians that creamed the soviets were all college amateurs they weren't cradle skaters
- count011, on 08/13/2008, -14/+10If you've read the stories of the bitches that run the U.S. Gymnastics girls team you'd know that their training is unreal. Parents shouldn't allow kids to compete in things like this. I don't agree with child actors, models, athletes or performers in most of the venues that are going on right now. Teenagers and below... should be more worried about getting the 10-12 hours of sleep they need to properly develop and build brain and bone structure. Not only can you potentially stunt physical growth and psychological normalcy, but it feeds the demands of pedophiles and other weirdos by plastering them all over televisions.
I realize that most countries are much more lenient with the ages that kids take responsibilities, such a drinking and sex at 16 or below. Looking at voting ages around the world however it seems to be consistently 18 or thereabouts in almost every recognized country in the world. If being 18 represents an age where you're decided to be a developed, coherent, and rational human being than I think that should be the minimum age for competitions of this nature, as well as the above listed.
Children should not be in the ***** Olympics, period. If the globally accepted age when one transcends from a Child to an Adult then set the requirements at 18. It's unconscionable to put little kids through this, who gives a ***** if they won't look as fluid, graceful and flexible as a 10 year old without any hormones?
Anyone who allows their offspring to tell them that they want to be a rock star or model, and then turns around and helps said progeny enter pageants or auditions or strenuous training regimens needs to pull their heads out of their respective asses and say "No, you can do it when you're older.". This ***** makes me sick, I don't blame China more than anyone else, 16 is still too ***** young, in any country. If they're not legally able to voice an opinion, then they should be busy watching and learning those who can.
Let them practice all they want in community and recreational environments where "Everybody's a Winner!" so they can appreciate the fact that being a kid should be an exploration, not spending half your life preparing for and event that you may not care about in the 5 years when you lose your naivete.- dafragsta, on 08/13/2008, -4/+6"Anyone who allows their offspring to tell them that they want to be a rock star or model, and then turns around and helps said progeny enter pageants or auditions or strenuous training regimens needs to pull their heads out of their respective asses and say "No, you can do it when you're older.". This ***** makes me sick"
Who the ***** are you to say what kids can and can't do at a young age. I think the only harm anyone fears for the children is the permanent damage they could do to themselves physically and the potential disadvantage they might put their competitors in?
Are you a rock star or an athlete? No? Then shut the ***** up. The kids that do what they love all their lives are the ones who become stars. VERY few people who haven't been doing something all their lives ever get to do it under the spotlight unless they are just naturals.
It's the responsibility of the parent to nurture the aptitudes their children have, not put them off or deter them. You are never going to be as good at anything else as you are the thing you love doing most.
I ***** HATE this notion that children are possessions of their parents and that attitude that "I brought you into this world. I can take you out." It's not ***** rocket science to make babies that you can boss around. You're ***** kids don't belong to you. They belong to themselves. - count011, on 08/14/2008, -2/+5You make my point for me.
--"You are never going to be as good at anything else as you are the thing you love doing most."--
And there's plenty of time for you to do what you love up until the time when you can move out and do it on your own, without mommy and daddy having to provide food and shelter for you. If you love it so much you'll make time for it and do it no matter how hard you have to work, or who's watching.
--"I think the only harm anyone fears for the children is the permanent damage they could do to themselves physically and the potential disadvantage they might put their competitors in?"--
Honestly I don't think people fear for the disadvantage to the other competitors, fear is something reserved for bodily harm which I most readily agree with. Who is more likely to suffer permanent damage than the kids who still have growth plates that are being compacted and battered at the behest of some bitter, dictator of a trainer?
--"The kids that do what they love all their lives are the ones who become stars."--
Who's to say that letting kids blindly run with any obsession they may adopt is what's ultimately best for them? Or even that the ones who do so and become stars are well adjusted, admiration worthy individuals?
--"It's the responsibility of the parent to nurture the aptitudes their children have, not put them off or deter them."--
As I stated, let them practice at what they love all they want, let them explore and see how people of age to gain recognition respond to their fame and fandom. Do they start doing a bunch of drugs and earn a record of criminal charges? Maybe they get burnt out and disappear from the spotlight as soon as they find it, due to the finicky public eye.
I'm not against letting kids do what they want, but it shouldn't be to reinforce narrow minded views and short sighted goals in respect to their ENTIRE LIVES. Being a good gymnast at 14 or 16 or whatever, or a pre-teenage prodigy at golf, or a cutesy but talented young singer... isn't a good reason to give up a more varied education and whole body and mind experiences. Child prodigy's can not sustain their edge forever, they plateau just like everyone else, it's just the simple truth. At that point the next aspiring talent rises to the occasion and takes over, what then? Without a decent education and prospects for a new goal, you're at the mercy of the rest of us with a well-rounded life led by pragmatic decisions about a real future.
Something that doesn't include:
"Hey weren't you that kid that did that one thing kinda well once upon a time?.... Umm sure I would like fries with that." - Jelfish, on 08/14/2008, -1/+116 is not young at all. For most kids, that's sophomore year in high school.
I can't speak for everyone, but I was raised to be responsible for myself. My parents both had to work full time jobs, so even as far back as first grade, i.e. 6 yrs old, (back when it wasn't illegal), I took the school bus and went home alone to an empty house until my parents came home at night. Was there a risk? Yes. But did my parents make sure I knew how to take care of myself so I didn't get hurt or taken advantaged of? Of course. And now, I consider myself much more independent than most of my peers. I think for myself, act for myself, and take responsibility for myself, and it has been expected of me since I was very young. And it has all to do with the fact that I wasn't brought up in a fake fairy-tale world.
If you want kids to live in a world where they won't be taken advantaged of or molested, then maybe kids should be taught about these things so they can defend themselves and make reasonable decisions. Kids are not ignorant and irrational sponges unless they are brought up that way. - count011, on 08/14/2008, -0/+2Ok, I can agree with everything you said, I also was a latchkey kid at a young age.
I don't see how that has anything to do with growing up with a well-rounded and balanced life instead of being subjected to(willingly or unwillingly) what it takes to be a athletic machine. Everyone should be taught to think outside the box, as well as not put into situations where they might be molested or what have you.
These are the kind of things you get when your parents don't ship you off to a personal trainer 7 days a week, for hours a day, where the only information being processed by your brain is the repetitive execution of some asinine routine. - Rotkiv, on 08/14/2008, -1/+4So according to count011 we shouldn't be putting pictures or images of girls under 18 on tv, or websites of respectable companies, and the show Heroes feeds a pedophiles demands because Hayden Panettiere is too young and has too central a roll. Lets all put them in burqas so nobody's tempted.
Also, which countries laws should the Olympics adopt as it's standard? Just because America doesn't consider someone an adult until the age of 18 the Olympics must follow that standard? There are definitely countries out there that consider someone an adult at or before the age of 16 so the Olympics, an international organization/event/whatever it is, needs to take that into consideration and determine for ITS purposes what the best age is.
Also the "children" that participate in the Olympics (at least before companies started hiring them as spokespeople) will be SO prepared for life by what they learn as far as determination, the ability to LOSE GRACIOUSLY, and DISCIPLINE. They may not know as much about science or math as someone else, but they know how to work for something.
And I just gotta say the "Everyone's a Winner" mentality is a load of complete *****. Kid's need to learn to lose because life "ain't no bed of roses", and the parent's who freak out because their child's self esteem has been hurt never learned that when they were little and aren't doing their job as parents.
I'm not saying make kids learn all the life lessons as early as possible, but we don't want them to be "bubble boys" either. - count011, on 08/14/2008, -0/+2wiki the voting age, around the world... 18 is pretty much standard even in remote countries. justify hard work in the name of ignorance all you want, all you're creating a growing number of managerial types of people that are driven to do anything and can be motivational speakers for tying one's shoes. meanwhile our schools systems sag from lack of funds, and poor teaching, higher education doesn't provide the guarantee of increased income or career pathways it used to. this is partly because there has been a lowering of the academic bar to pad school statistics on things like exams and generalized testing. the nations most prestigious universities are being populated more and more by foreign students, where school is not just something you're supposed to get over and done with, it's an opportunity to gain worthwhile knowledge and understanding of the world around you.
America is slipping, and you're praising the ability to lose graciously and blind determination instead of complex thought and forward planning. - Spudster, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1As for the voting age:
There is a strong movement right now to lower the voting age to 16. Most teenagers at that age have a more advanced high school education than their parents 20 years older than them who all forgot the fundamentals they learned (especially if the parents stopped schooling at high school). Additionally, teenagers that age are allowed to join the military at that age and work/pay taxes on that income. Why shouldn't they be allowed to vote or compete in the OIympics?
More info:
http://www.vote16.ca/en/index.htm
http://www.votesat16.org.uk/ - amirahfusion, on 08/14/2008, -0/+3It's not really even a matter of philosophy of sport, actually. I was a competitive gymnast for 10 years, and I can tell you from first hand experience that the training necessary for these young girls is easily comparable to the workouts NFL players are put through. Do you know why they are all 5 ft tall, have super high voices, and no boobs? It's because they are working out so hard (~30 hrs a wk) at such a young age, that their bodies think they're DYING, so they shut down the only two things not necessary to survive: growth, and the reproductive system. I know this for a fact; I did not grow from the ages 8 to 12 due to over strenuous physical activity, nor did I start my period until I was 16 and a half (I know, yuck for all the immature digg guys out there). That level of activity at such a young age has ruined my joints and I now suffer from arthritis at the age of 26, not to mention many sever permanent injuries I've had to deal with and multiple surgeries.
The age restriction is put in place to deter coaches, and in China's case, governments, from supporting this type of unhealthy activity at such a young age. Yes, it is an advantage to be small as a gymnast. However, the risks involved are not worth it! We should allow our girls to grow and train naturally, and let their bodies and muscles grow strong together and not majorly stunt healthy growth.
- dafragsta, on 08/13/2008, -4/+6"Anyone who allows their offspring to tell them that they want to be a rock star or model, and then turns around and helps said progeny enter pageants or auditions or strenuous training regimens needs to pull their heads out of their respective asses and say "No, you can do it when you're older.". This ***** makes me sick"
- themastersb, on 08/13/2008, -0/+8Well at least I have a more legitimate excuse: "Her passport says she's eighteen"
- 883XL, on 08/14/2008, -8/+1Tom Daley, 14 YO British Olympian: (Platform event)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article- ...
Can we stop being so critical of the Beijing Olympics yet?- omarciddo, on 08/14/2008, -0/+7There's no age limit for platform. There is for gymnastics.
- 883XL, on 08/14/2008, -1/+2that's my point! The age "limit" for gymnastics has changed so many times in past decades and the age limit varies from event to event. There's no point in them. Olympics should be about the best athletes, regardless of age, from each country competing.
Talent has no age boundaries. - EtherGnat, on 08/14/2008, -2/+3Whether or not the rule makes sense is a different issue from whether the rule was broken. In fact most rules in sports are totally arbitrary, but they must still be followed (or changed for everybody) to maintain a level playing field.
If China broke the rules I think they ought to have their medals revoked. - themastersb, on 08/14/2008, -3/+2@ 883XL
Wrong. A lot of people think a 9 year old blond girl with her front teeth knocked out who is able to sing what would be to the normal capabilities of a girl her age is talent.
- rotundo, on 08/14/2008, -1/+5Unless you've lived in Asia for a while, don't bother trying to guess the age of Asian women. My wife was 30 years old when a white receptionist at the doctors office asked if she needed a doctor's note to go back to high school.
She's 35 now and she still gets carded.- LBobRife, on 08/14/2008, -5/+2Get ready. Asian women (and men) hit a wall. She'll go from "looking young" to "old" in the span of a couple years. With her being 35, it's coming soon.
- Snottlebocket, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1I know what you mean Rotundo, my previous girlfriend was 43 and when we met I thought she was younger than me. (I was 25 at the time)
- dysonlu, on 08/14/2008, -1/+3The Chinese men gymnasts kicked US men gymnasts' butt. And they are not "under-aged".
- KJSatz, on 08/14/2008, -1/+5No 14 year old boy is gonna be able to rape those rings like a ripped grown man could.
- ballsnark, on 08/14/2008, -2/+3Not the point of this article.
- LoJack, on 08/14/2008, -4/+1American Floyd Landis stripped of his 2006 Tour de France championship title for using banned drugs during the race.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?story ...
American Tyler Hamilton had a confirmed positive for blood doping in the 2004 Tour of Spain..
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/tourdefranc ... - coolilowe, on 08/14/2008, -5/+0
At the olympics Women's gymnasts by rule need to reach the age of 16 in year that they compete in the olympics. It is clear that the Chinese team has members who are under age. One who saw the event can not deny how young the chinese gymnasts look. Further there is documentary evidence which questions there age. The Chinese government is obsessed with winning to the point where they take children as young as 3 away from their family to put them in boot camp to become olympians. This obsession with winning has led them to cheat by falsifying passports. The chinese government surely believes that the IOC will not question their falsified documents. The NY Times covered this as there have been suspicions for awhile (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/sports/olympics/ ... As American consumers we should all be upset. I am proposing we email the IOC chairman telling him to open an investigation. I am attaching a letter I wrote. The email I have for Jacques Rogge is JaRogge@olympic.com - this email did not bounce so I am assuming it is correct. If someone else has a better email or a suggestion as to who else to contact that would be great (maybe we should urge America to file a formal complaint?). As patriotic Americans who support our athletes I urge all readers to bomb Mr. Rogge with emails until he does something.
Here is the Letter I wrote to Jacques Rogue:
Dear Mr. Rogge,
I recently witnessed the women's team gymnastics finals. At first, I was skeptical that the Chinese would risk public ridicule by presenting gymnasts who were not of proper age however just looking at the girls one can not deny that they do not look in anyway like they are 16 years old. Further, this visual evidence is only corroboration for documentary evidence. I find it very honorable that the IOC has come down on performance enhancing drug cheating. It is not fair though if cheating happens in other ways. If these girls are not of proper age it will come out in the future. I understand not wanting to insult the host country but do not insult the rest of the world. I urge you to immediately open an investigation into the age of the Chinese women's gymnastics girls and ensure that the Olympics games are competed in an honorable way.- blackula01, on 08/14/2008, -0/+2Mr. Rogge's response:
Right click --> Send to trash.
- blackula01, on 08/14/2008, -0/+2Mr. Rogge's response:
- alexidigg, on 08/14/2008, -1/+1Have you seen the incredible training these 4-12 year olds go through at the special gymnastics academies? The parents essentially hand their children over to the state in hopes of bringing China glory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KI_zQmtuc0
and here's part one of a terribly-subtitled documentary on it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDkHmrG2IhU&feature ...
The girls talked about how although they were training for their country's glory, they were more terrified of the coach's punishments for performing poorly. - alexidigg, on 08/14/2008, -1/+1This documentary really shows the life on the inside of a Chinese gymnastics boarding school
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7NZ97gekZk&feature ... - vmeeno, on 08/17/2008, -0/+1Whiners! The age restriction is to protect under-age athletes, not that these young girls have huge advantage over the American team because they are young. And Asian people tend to look much younger in their early ages. I'm 26, and I still look younger than my Caucasian peers. Chinese never blame Michael Phelps for his swimming suit even though this Olympics looks pretty much like the Chinese team against Michael Phelps, because we know he's good, we believe he deserves all the gold medals. Why Americans can't take the result in the same manner. Instead, Americans keep whining about other people's age (which can't be proved anyway), and use a total different medal rating system to make yourselves look good. Despite China has more gold medals for the time being, America is the first on NBC's list. I know there could be lies about Chinese athletes' ages, as I don't trust most of the stuff from the Chinese government either. However, the American team lost mainly because of their occasional poor performance. This is a competition of who's the best, not who's the youngest. On the Today Show, some "experts" were invited to discuss Chinese team's age problem. And the reason given by the "experts" why under-age was good was these athletes didn't have as much pressure as their older competitors, because they were too young to comprehend pressure. I was surprise by the ignorance of these so-called experts. Apparently, they knew nothing about how sports in China work. All people who compete for China have political missions, they have to win. Dare you say they have less pressure than their American counterparts. As a Chinese, I respect Americans in many many ways. I truly do. But please cut us some slacks. After all, the U.S. doesn't have to be good in all the sports. And losers can still be elegant you know!
- Paigewithlove, on 08/13/2008, -40/+66The Chinese girls may have looked young to the eyes of non-Asians, but to say that they can pass as an 8 yr old? The little girl that lip sync'd the Motherland song at the opening ceremonies was apparently 9 yrs old and the gymnasts definitely looked older than her, alternatively, I guess you can say that 9 yr old lip sync'ing girl could pass for a younger age too.
- Calypsoaf, on 08/13/2008, -31/+25Béla Károlyi was on TV yesterday stating that he did not think there should be age limits for the Olympics. I tend to agree, if you are good enough to compete at the top level of world competition, age and training should not matter. Just because we as Americans do not agree with the way another country does it, does not necessarily make it wrong.
it is bad that China possibly cheated to get their girls in, but in all truth, why are the Olympics touted as the best of the best, if they keep out better competitors due to age?- tkorbitz, on 08/13/2008, -5/+41That is not the point. The point is that the Chinese have an advantage that the other teams do not have. One of the announcers pointed out that a couple of the US gymnasts could have been good enough to compete when they were much younger as well. The rest of the teams were not on an even playing field and the Chinese should be penalized.
- fade79, on 08/13/2008, -18/+20Possibly cheated! Did you guys forget this? Since when did we treat accusations as fact? And you have to remember who is making these accusations... the US gymnastics team coaches... we had the favored team and they lost... not like they could be jealous or anything right?
- shutaro, on 08/13/2008, -11/+3Your mom is jealous!
- fade79, on 08/13/2008, -6/+6Wow great argument! Your mom must be so proud...
- itsthebrod, on 08/13/2008, -6/+10Huh? US wasn't the favored team, China was. Gymnastics is their game. That said, to look at China's gymnastics team and say they're all 16 is pretty naive.
- Mononuclear, on 08/13/2008, -2/+5The US women were the favored team to win the Gold. The US men weren't and China and Japan were the favored teams.
They look young but so do all gymnasts. The 16 year old on the US team doesn't look 16. The girls who are over 20 look 16. I am 25 and look like I am 18 and I am not a gymnast. Some people just look much younger than their age. - mrsteveman1, on 08/13/2008, -3/+5"Since when did we treat accusations as fact?"
Since China was involved. - siszam, on 08/14/2008, -2/+2My husband and I watched and we were both saying the girls from China had to be under 16. This was at the start. I guess we were jealous too? Come on. The age of the girls is a valid concern. The physical differences were great and more than enough to raise concerns. Did you even see the girls? If you did you should realize how silly it sounds to chalk this up to jealousy. Even if they are of age they look like they've been underfed for a very long time. Not one of them has a butt, thighs or anything that a sixteen year old has.
- fade79, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1All gymnasts are chosen because they tend to be smaller than the average person. While you may have in your mind what a typical 16 year old should look like it doesn't really apply in this case. Not because you are wrong but because your perceptions are skewed... people are forgetting that Asians tend to develop at a slower rate than their Western counterparts. Maybe its genetic or environmental or a combination of both but walk into any school in East Asia and you would be surprised at how young and small the kids look compared to what we in the West would expect. I know that this is just a gross generalization but its valid to a fair degree. Then take into account that China has a billion people to choose from... do you think they would really have a hard time finding a few girls that are very small and young for their age?
- aimhelix, on 08/13/2008, -0/+9I agree with your points, but rules are rules. In a worldwide sport competition, there should be no secrets. Athletes should be exactly who and what or how old they are for the sake of the spirit of competition and sportsmanship.
- msk275, on 08/13/2008, -2/+7No, I saw Bela Karolyi denouncing the Chinese for having girls younger than the age limit this morning.
- zizzo, on 08/13/2008, -2/+5Younger competitors should not be allowed in gymnastics because of the long term harm Olympic training can do to their bodies at such a young age. That's why the rule is in place. The powers that be recognized that all that muscle development and impact on the body is not good on a still growing/maturing body.
- dkmacleod, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1children are much better than adults at certain labor tasks, but would you want them working in factories making t shirts?
this is the same thing- PopcornDave, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1Better profit margins due to lower payroll?
/s
- PopcornDave, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1Better profit margins due to lower payroll?
- notanidiot, on 08/14/2008, -1/+1There is an age limit because Olympic gymnastics is one step away from porn.
- Samo89, on 08/13/2008, -14/+137i was watching it as well, the look no older than the 12/13 yr old kids that my lil bro hangs with
- Paigewithlove, on 08/13/2008, -12/+64A lot of Asian girls are really tiny and look young. On our university campus, plenty for our first year students can easily pass off as 13 or 14.
- Synyk, on 08/13/2008, -2/+23I don't know why you're being dugg down. I'm caucasian and even I know this. I hang out with a lot of asian people, and yes, some do look younger than they are. However, in their homeland, they look exactly their age.
- noumuon, on 08/13/2008, -3/+25he's probably being dugg down because everyone wants a scandal and nobody wants the facts.
- friday1970, on 08/13/2008, -4/+10But, to other Asian I know, the gymnasts look much younger than 16.
- Paigewithlove, on 08/13/2008, -3/+5I didn't reven realize this comment was being dugg down. My other comment is mega being dugg down A LOT. :(
- electrocuting, on 08/13/2008, -1/+5those white women looked about 30 to me. what is up with white women looking older than they really are ?
- walugi, on 08/14/2008, -0/+7If there's an advantage to being small and China has 1 billion people - how hard can it be to find a particularly small gymnast? ***** hell.
- LacY, on 08/14/2008, -2/+6It's not just that some of them *look* too young--their ages have been reported as younger than 16 in other places (like in websites for various competitions). Two girls have been reported in several places to be born in 1994--making them 14. That's at least a suggestion that something weird is going on, even if they did look 16+.
- otto989, on 08/14/2008, -4/+4i'm asian (filipino with a pure chinese granddad), i've been to china, and i can honestly and confidently say that in my entire life, i have never seen any 16 year olds that looked as young as those chinese gymnasts
- TypeEE, on 08/14/2008, -4/+5I am a chinese and I was dating at 16, hell no way those girls are 16, probably 12-13
- DuffyDirect, on 08/14/2008, -3/+1racial profiling
- rickyroca, on 08/20/2008, -1/+1they look that young because they ARE that young. Obviously they are smart enough to attend your school. duh!
- fmyidotcom, on 08/13/2008, -2/+4If even that old.
- erockappel, on 08/13/2008, -13/+2One of those girls was no more than 5 years old.
- ICanRead, on 08/14/2008, -9/+5Why do I keep envisioning your "lil Bro" as a dirty sweaty old balding man with a pedo-lip...?
- xiguo, on 08/14/2008, -0/+6I'm Asian and 22 and people nearly always take me for no older than 15.
- Samo89, on 08/14/2008, -0/+2i have an asian friend who's my age (19) and can easily pass off as 9 or 10
i know how to spot the difference between tiny and actually young - juneaudigger, on 08/14/2008, -0/+2Xiguo - Amazing, that's my exact situation. Hell, my coworkers thought I was 16 or so until I corrected them (I'm also 22, and Asian).
- Bummer12, on 08/20/2008, -0/+1I am Canadian and people think i am 16-20 and i am only 14
- Samo89, on 08/14/2008, -0/+2i have an asian friend who's my age (19) and can easily pass off as 9 or 10
- tzcomwhiz, on 08/14/2008, -1/+3Alicia Sacramone doesn't look 20 years old.
- StevesJobs, on 08/14/2008, -0/+4soo tappable
- Soytaco, on 08/14/2008, -0/+2She doesn't look so young with a regular haircut and clothes
http://img239.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=43944_a ...
- starscream45, on 08/14/2008, -2/+3One of those girls was missing a tooth, which most 16 year olds aren't still losing.
- supreme86, on 08/14/2008, -2/+1first you gotta know the strategies they use behind to optimize the training schedule, which happens in every team around the globe. some of them take injections/drugs that delay or stop the menstrual cycle, which ultimately interfers with the hormonal system and causes delayed growth ie. babytooth. Therefore it's not surprising to see such thing in the Chinese team. I myself wear a size XL in Hong Kong, but a size S is a tight fit in Canada, that also explains the body type difference
- Gunite, on 08/14/2008, -0/+2My Japanese friend regularly gets carded at bars and she is 33. I moved to the US when I was a kid and was *amazed* at the dimensions of the girls in my class. I honestly think it's the hormones in beef and other meat.
- gtapro92, on 08/17/2008, -0/+1nah asians are just small
- Paigewithlove, on 08/13/2008, -12/+64A lot of Asian girls are really tiny and look young. On our university campus, plenty for our first year students can easily pass off as 13 or 14.
- merdiesel, on 08/13/2008, -29/+217A 12 year old doesn't understand the pressure of say a 20 year old. Just like you saw tonight with that sexy ass Alicia Sacramone. China earned themselves a nice shiny asterisk with that medal.
- bullioncube, on 08/13/2008, -33/+8Alicia Sacramone is a butter face.
- shutaro, on 08/13/2008, -16/+3I don't know why... But I find that comment hilarious.
- friday1970, on 08/13/2008, -0/+16I'd hit it.
- Gryphon09, on 08/13/2008, -8/+3Her boobs are way too big for her to be a gymnast. I just don't get it.
All the gymnasts I've seen have more pecs than boobs.
Not to say they can't still be pretty... - LemonChicken, on 08/13/2008, -1/+7Not.
- alexkball, on 08/14/2008, -6/+1More like a butter thighs...her and shawn johnson too...those squat little bodies with tree trunk thighs are hardly hot.
- cababika799, on 08/13/2008, -10/+45Maybe China and the Patriots can hang out later.
- jbennett83, on 08/13/2008, -14/+2Yep, they can brag about how their respective governments made them marketable at very lucrative times, the Chinese during their Olympics, and the US right after 9/11 "We're all Patriots today." Kiss my ass Bill Bilacheat
Chinese Govt. - Olympic Conspiracy
U.S. Govt. - (New England) Patriot Act - StephenCarboni, on 08/14/2008, -1/+7Barry Bonds can come too
- jbennett83, on 08/13/2008, -14/+2Yep, they can brag about how their respective governments made them marketable at very lucrative times, the Chinese during their Olympics, and the US right after 9/11 "We're all Patriots today." Kiss my ass Bill Bilacheat
- kaplanfx, on 08/13/2008, -5/+29Ok, she nice looking, but does anyone else notice she has a neck like a sequoia?
- friday1970, on 08/13/2008, -3/+43Yes, but her neck leads down to a nice pair of big'uns!
- zaidib5, on 08/14/2008, -6/+1i was watching it as well, the attending no earlier than the 12/13 yr old kids that my lil bro hangs with
i think so..
http://mail2money.net/yeast-infection-eva/
- Khangwin, on 08/13/2008, -17/+9what does age have to do with dealing with pressure? im sorry but thats not a valid argument.
- steelclash84, on 08/13/2008, -1/+3I think the better argument would be availability. Let's say you have a 15 y/o that has superior skill to the 16 y/o, however because of age limitations, you have to take the less skilled gymnast. China can have the advantage of this by having a larger pool of talent to choose from by breaking this rule.
- triad203, on 08/13/2008, -0/+10Do you seriously not think that age and maturity have anything to do with dealing with pressure? You're 12, aren't you?
- saranagati, on 08/13/2008, -1/+6age has to do with pressure because the younger people don't comprehend on the same level as the older gymnasts of what exactly the olympics means. As an athlete in the olympics, you're not only trying to prove that you and/or your team is the best, you're trying to prove that the people from your country are the best at that event and all the people from your country where you'll have to go home to after the the olympics are over are counting on you to prove that to the rest of the world who is watching.
When you're 12/13 I dont think you really have as much of an idea about what the olympics represent since you can probably only remember 1 of them in the past.
On another note similar to steelclashs point, i think china and most of asia has a distinct advantage over the rest of the world in gymnastics since the average height is much lower than the average for none asian decent. That means that they'll have a much larger pool of people to chose from especially since they're chosen from such a young age. Also the 1.3? billion people to chose from helps too.
- aladin, on 08/13/2008, -4/+33I logged in to digg you good sir. Alicia Sacramone is top notch.
- greencoat, on 08/13/2008, -1/+7Sharp Knees IMO
- subliminalurge, on 08/18/2008, -1/+1I'm sure I can find something besides her knees to entertain myself with.
- jbennett83, on 08/13/2008, -1/+19While I find validity in your statement that a 12 year old doesn't understand pressure as a 20 year old does consider this. If you give the USA back the .8 pts for the fall on the balance beam, and the .8 and .1 points for the fall and the out of bounds respectively in the floor exercise, we still lose by about 0.775 points. As much as I'd like to hear every announcer in every event quoting Bob Costas from the Athens men's 4x400m relay when he said "The United States is obliterating the rest of the world !" we can't win everything. The one thing I'm certain of is that we cleanly earned the silver medal, and if it turns out that the Chinese did in fact cheat then we will have cleanly earned the gold medal.
Regardless, GO USA !!!!!- saranagati, on 08/14/2008, -2/+4the thing is you're only considering it one sided. It would be very possible that the chinese would have made even more mistakes after the first (they seemed to have some big errors in the beginning) if they felt the pressure that the US felt. Of course they just might have, not necessarily that they would have. Not trying to take anything away from the chinese team, they did do a great job, it's just hypothetical which is part of the reason there is an age restriction, so that everyone is on fairly equal grounds and should be judged based solely on how well they do given equal playing ground.
- ravamp3, on 08/14/2008, -1/+4http://www.xarj.net/wp-content/gallery/alicia-phot ...
- MammothMan34, on 08/14/2008, -0/+5She really does have a sexy ass. So does Shawn Johnson and Nastia. Go America with the Donk's
- apollomurga, on 08/14/2008, -0/+4i logged in as well to digg you. Alicia Sacramone was ***** amazing.
- bullioncube, on 08/13/2008, -33/+8Alicia Sacramone is a butter face.
- GarryBarker, on 08/13/2008, -51/+6Those girls were obviously had performance enhancing drugs in their system and in it wouldn't surprised me if they paid off the judges just so they could 'win' at home. Those girls should be ashamed and they should give those gold medals to the Americans, who were flawless. Remember these games and these chinese athletes were built off the blood of millions of tibetans, these girls are murderers. ***** China!
Free Tibet!- BrettSchu, on 08/13/2008, -1/+19Uh neither team was flawless. If you would have actually watched it, the Americans fell just as many times as the Chinese.
- fade79, on 08/13/2008, -3/+15You have any proof or are you just stating accusations as fact? If you remember... it was our team that has the controversy with cheating with performance enhancing drugs (remember Jones?). And paying of judges... really? Not like we could have lost because our team made lots of mistakes right? I mean we are Americans, we are perfect, if we lose it always has to be the other team cheating! Stop being such poor sport... or actually from your tone it sounds like you are probably more likely a racist.
We lost the gold to some plain bad luck. It could have happened to any team under extreme pressure... but to accuse the winners of cheating (with no proof whatsoever) just because our team loss is just bad sportsmanship. I would have hoped that we were better than that.. but I guess not. You don't see the Chinese saying Phelps was cheating or doping just because they lost the swimming events do you? We should be celebrating the achievements that all of these athletes made... and not act like whiny little bitches every time we lose.- shutaro, on 08/13/2008, -6/+3Phelps isn't swimming around out there with a giant needle sticking out of his ass.. Besides, they test for that stuff. How are you going to prove that a gymnast is too young when all her documents are issued by the corrupt Chinese government?
- fade79, on 08/13/2008, -2/+7So you saying our great government isn't corrupt? Give me a break... Unless you can provide evidence the Chinese cheated I can accuse you of being gay hermaphroditic dwarf with severe microencephaly and my accusation would be just as valid as yours.
- pckbeta, on 08/13/2008, -1/+9This is a clear troll. Just bury him and don't dignify w/ an answer.
- Synyk, on 08/13/2008, -3/+4It's sarcasm folks. He's calling you dumbasses, and you're rolling with it. good job.
- fpaudon, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1I was about to digg you for what i perceived as sarcasm, but then i clicked your profile.
It's nice when one's devoted to a cause such as Free Tibet (which I don't agree with - digg me down), but you seem to be blindly following a trend rather than thinking for yourself.
- dugg4obscurity, on 08/13/2008, -21/+3Dugg because burning Tibetan monks was an inside job!
- jasonliman, on 08/13/2008, -20/+15NBC's Bela Karolyi has been surprisingly vocal on the issue. On Sunday, Karolyi lamented what he called "China's arrogance" for using girls he wasn't even sure were teenagers. According to Karolyi, if there are any questions about age, just eliminate the restrictions being broken.
How is that arrogance? Well, China maybe misleading the world, but I just don't see how are they being arrogant.
Well, I think the Asian grow ratio is slower that a lot of people from western region. Mostly because of the food differences.- magus_melchior, on 08/13/2008, -5/+9It's arrogance when you construct a team in which you know the members are underage, but you are sure that the IOC, gymnastics governance body, and your countrymen will not say a word of protest. It is utter hubris that you go ahead and grab the gold medal anyway despite the fact that you know there will be protests over your team's age. It is this "try and stop us, sniveling maggots" attitude that probably unnerves Karolyi more than anything.
And the "grow ratio" bit is a red herring. If official documents other than their passports say that they are less than 15 years of age, that is evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the Chinese Olympic team.
- magus_melchior, on 08/13/2008, -5/+9It's arrogance when you construct a team in which you know the members are underage, but you are sure that the IOC, gymnastics governance body, and your countrymen will not say a word of protest. It is utter hubris that you go ahead and grab the gold medal anyway despite the fact that you know there will be protests over your team's age. It is this "try and stop us, sniveling maggots" attitude that probably unnerves Karolyi more than anything.
- fade79, on 08/13/2008, -16/+7http://digg.com/olympics/Under_Age_Gymnasts_or_Sor ...
I found this article to be pretty logical on this issue.- LemonChicken, on 08/13/2008, -3/+5No, that writer is a ***** idiot. It's easy to sit back and say "regardless, they were better. The rules don't matter" than to challenge the Chinese.
- fmyidotcom, on 08/13/2008, -2/+3I heard rumors (from my MOM who's not even tech savvy to go find them, but came across something anyway) before the finals were even started. And yes, you're right, if the Chinese had finished 5th, it wouldn't have been a big deal.
Think about it. The team that beat you for the gold medal might have cheated - you would care too. - saranagati, on 08/13/2008, -1/+3wow that guy is a moron. Uneven bars are much easier for shorter girls unlike what the author of that article said because they don't have to avoid hitting the other bar with their feet. At a lower level it may be harder for the smaller gymnasts since they don't have the speed of the higher level girls which makes transitioning bars much more difficult. Once you have the speed however you shouldn't be required to use much if any muscle to transition bars (you actually get points deducted if you do). When swinging that fast you should have enough momentum to switch bars just by letting go at the right spot.
As for the swiming events... it's been said many times that the new suits are the cause of the faster times which every country seems to be using. Americans really haven't been winning that many gold medals in swimming except for michael phelps.- PopcornDave, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1Apparently in the swimming events the pools are 9' deep instead of the usual 6' and that gives the swimmers an edge in speed - but that's all the swimmers, not just one team.
- davenp35, on 08/13/2008, -22/+25Everyone should e-mail the IOC and FIG and demand an investigation.
- matt247, on 08/14/2008, -0/+5They checked their passports which are issued by the government. And I think the Chinese add a year to your age because they start counting your age when you are conceived(yeah I know it's 9 months, but they add a year)
- chrisbosh123, on 08/14/2008, -0/+3Though I'm usually pro chinese, I have to say that breaking the rules is a no no. On the other hand, I'm willing to bet my lunch money that if the American's took gold in this event, NONE of this "OMFG CHINA'S TEAM IS UNDERAGE" news would be out right now.
- takeo1775, on 08/14/2008, -0/+2QUICK! TO THE INTERNET!
- shufan, on 08/13/2008, -72/+295My opinion is:
1. If indeed the Chinese gymnasts are underaged, that would not be "good".
2. You really can't say that they are underaged, there is no proof. Chinese girls tend to look much younger than they really are due to their small builds. For example, look at Cheng Fei, who is definitely really 20. She could easily pass as 17-18 or even 16.
3. The US did not lose because of whatever age the Chinese gymnasts may be, they lost because they didn't perform well. The Chinese deserved to win.
4. The age limit rule for gymnastics in the Olympics should be removed. Essentially, it is like saying to a lighter gymnast, "Sorry, you are too light to compete."
5. People keep saying that the Chinese gymnasts would be under less pressure if they were under-aged, the plain truth is that statement is completely wrong. They were, in China, expected to win the gold in their homeland, and anything less would have been failure. Just as the Chinese gymnastics coach said, anything less than five golds in gymnastics would be make him considered as a failure. The pressure Chinese athletes are under in these Olympics is more than the pressure of any other athletes in these Olympics.- FUR10N, on 08/13/2008, -24/+15I saw the gymnastics part last night and I have to say that the judges were definitely bias. The Chinese were good and probably should have won anyways, but their scores were so inflated (especially for the girl that fell on the balance beam).
- sqhihi, on 08/13/2008, -1/+12No, you're biased. Alicia Sacramone got 15.1 and Cheng Fei got 15.15. Both of them fell off the balance beam.
- DarkLaughingMan, on 08/13/2008, -6/+7Isn't the age rule for gymnastics to make it more fair for everyone? Otherwise wouldn't everyone that was young would have an advantage over people who have hit puberty.
- saranagati, on 08/13/2008, -0/+4I'm sure that's part of it however i know many gymnastic coaches in the US don't like to try to get their students to do the more advanced stuff until after puberty because all of those skills are VERY dangerous, especially if your arm randomly grew a little bit more than the other the night before.
- CallMeMatt, on 08/13/2008, -10/+4TL;DR
- Kafro, on 08/13/2008, -20/+8"1. If indeed the Chinese gymnasts are underaged, that would not be "good"."
Why is good in quotes? Is it supposed to subjective or something? Underage = breaking rules = cheating = "bad".
"3. The US did not lose because of whatever age the Chinese gymnasts may be, they lost because they didn't perform well. The Chinese deserved to win."
No they don't. They broke the rules.
"4. The age limit rule for gymnastics in the Olympics should be removed. Essentially, it is like saying to a lighter gymnast, "Sorry, you are too light to compete.""
No. That is saying "Sorry, you are too young to compete."
LEARN TO ARGUE PLZ!- SeamusMcCloud, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2did you even watch the competition?
i'm sure it was the chinese being underage that made alicia sacramone fall off the high beam, and fall during the open floor competition. And when liukin and johnson stepped out of bounds on the floor, I bet that also was because the chinese team was underage. - shufan, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2Ok, I admit I didn't elaborate enough, and you are taking advantage of that to make your silly argument, but the reason I didn't elaborate was that I figured most people could understand and not misconstrue the gist of my argument without me explaining it all.
- DatruKatalyst, on 08/13/2008, -0/+3This was a horrible counterargument! O.O
Innocent before proven guilty, yes? Yes?
- SeamusMcCloud, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2did you even watch the competition?
- steelclash84, on 08/13/2008, -2/+35While I can agree with the removal of the rule, it *is* in place and it should still be followed by everyone. Just because you don't agree with the rule, doesn't justify Chin breaking that rule.
- ceredron, on 08/13/2008, -15/+361. Thanks
2. You are the one to judge that? The ones crying foul are people who work in gymnastics and have been for several years. Think they haven't seen a chinese girl before? Listen, I'm full blooded asian, and I don't know how blind YOU are, but those girls were WAY under 16. You look at them again, and tell me you are convinced of their age.
3. Yeah, sure. That's not what's being debated.
4. That's kind of ridiculous. The age limits were to ensure that all competitors had fair opportunities. Do you understand what girls get during puberty? Yeah, that kind of has something to do with gymnastics. You know, bigger hips and breasts, a disadvantage in a sport that taxing on the body. It's not that you're "too light", it's that you have an "unfair advantage"
5. No, it's really not wrong. When you were 12, did you understand all the ramifications of your actions? These girls are machines because they don't have the mental capacities of adults. When you get older, you do things like "worry" and "fret", like you saw Alicia Sacramone do after she messed up. Did you see the little chinese girls even show emotion? Cause I didn't.- shufan, on 08/13/2008, -0/+11Ok, I agree with some points there, which I won't argue further on. But several things I will say.
What I am saying on number four is, if the age limit is in place to prevent the advantage of being lighter, then it should be removed. My reasoning being that saying you cannot compete because you are younger and therefore lighter and therefore have an "unfair advantage" is like telling someone more mature and stronger that they cannot compete because they are stronger than the other competitors. Your weight and height are all aspects of athletics, and therefore are not an "unfair advantage".
And then on five, saying that the girls are machines and don't show emotion or pressure? Yeah, right. That proves to me that you didn't watch the preliminaries, which isn't bad or anything (just saying). I forget exactly which gymnast, but I think it was Deng Lin Lin, fell off the uneven bars, when she was supposed to do very well for the team. She ran into her coaches arms and cried at that point, all the other gymnasts were comforting her saying it was OK. Clearly, that's emotion. The weight of the nation is on them.
Your other points, valid enough. - DatruKatalyst, on 08/13/2008, -0/+7Dude. We all joke about Chinese robots...but to actually say that a human soul actually has no soul...kinda low. If you've ever watched a doc on gymnasts, even the Chinese - you can see the sheer weight they bear on their shoulders. It weighs like 1.3 billion ppl's expectations. =D
- viet10, on 08/13/2008, -0/+7ceredon, sorry, but asian girls look younger than their western counterparts. I know plenty of asian girls in their 20s that can pass as teens. And my cousins as teenage asians appear younger than they look. I'll give the chinese the benefit of the doubt.
As for your point on puberty, the average age of puberty is pretty young. As young as 9 years old. So your point is moot.
And last but not least.. if these girls are underage, what're we gonna do about it? Ask for fabricated birth certificates? I'm not saying that we should let cheating pass, but I don't think this is gonna be resolved by just crying bloody murder..
Thanks and simmer down. - hakluytbean, on 08/13/2008, -0/+8This is why people make terrible witnesses; maybe you were rather selective in what you were looking at. I thought the Chinese and the Romanians looked full of personality, while the U.S. and the Russians, who both succumbed to pressure, spent a lot of time looking tense.
- AnalJustice, on 08/14/2008, -1/+5Alicia Sacramone cried because she messed up at a crucial moment AGAIN in Beijing after the huge Athens disappointment. Get your facts straight. The Chinese didn't show any emotion? Are you sure you were watching the Olympics and not chess or something? And don't call other girls "machines". You have no idea about the background of any of these girls so you're best to just stfu.
- AriaStar, on 08/14/2008, -3/+1Hey, Viet, Shufan, the guy is an Asian. It's not like he's some white American. I think he's in a better position to judge the likely ages of his fellow Asians better than non-Asians would be. Those girls definitely haven't all gone through puberty. Not yet developing breast and hips is an advantage.
The age-rule in in place across the board, even in areas where weight is an advantage. If it was about weight, they'd have a minimum weight, but they don't.
Also the minimum age prevents babies from being started in training. - xcyber347, on 08/14/2008, -0/+3AriaStar, Viet and Shufan sound like Asian names to me, although I can't be sure that they are Asian. Besides, many people, both Asian and non-Asian, have already pointed out that Asians tend to look smaller and underage. Ceredon was out of line and obviously didn't watch the prelims when he called the Chinese gymnasts "emotionless machines". I actually did want the Americans to win, but they made obvious, big mistakes and didn't put on a gold-medal performance. It seems all this might just be sore-loser talk, although it's only a suspicion from me.
- jyac, on 08/14/2008, -0/+0ceredon, maybe you born and grew up here and you have a big ass and fake boos like some of the girls here, but girls grow up in asia look much younger than their real age. and they are normal girls, not machine.
when you watch the olympics, don't fooling around, and tell people pretend you saw the whole game.
and no one knows their true age besides the chinese, we are here all just guessing.
- shufan, on 08/13/2008, -0/+11Ok, I agree with some points there, which I won't argue further on. But several things I will say.
- ptsuk, on 08/13/2008, -0/+7Regardless of "performance" if rules were broken their should be consequences to those actions if the proof can be had. Otherwise all the sports use doping methods as that just increases performance right?!
personally i could care less about an age limit, but if there is one in place the rules should be followed. I would also suggest/ask are the other sports in the olymics restricted by age lower/upper limit? If so there should be a universal age limit for all sports.
Which brings me to equipment, do all the athletes get the same equipment choices and they just choose one over another? If not then its stupid to allow countries with more money per capita to use special "suits" (i'm looking at you American swim team) As i've not seen any of the swimming events yet and only saw the lead up to the Olympics and the new suits said to be developed by speedo or someone.
I think the idea of the Olympics has gone too far from the original idea of naked athletes competing in contests of strength, endurance, dexterity and stamina. Lets hope we get back to those ideals of the naked games!
hehe
oh wait that would make everyone ped-o-philes then i guess d'oh!- saranagati, on 08/14/2008, -1/+2Maybe you should try actually watching the olympics before commenting on them? Every swimmer has worn the new suit, I'm pretty sure every swimmer can get a free one by being a sponsor by the company who wants to give them one. What company wouldn't want to give up like between 1 and 20 suits in order to get free advertising which will be seen by hundereds of millions of people?
- ptsuk, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1So are you answering the question i posed (which i SAID i hadn't watched any of the swimming events so why you're hating on my question is beyond me.) or just speculating yourself as you mention "i'm pretty sure". I've watched other events (media center records) and not all of the Olympians have the same sportswear. Which i only really see it as an issue in the swimming events, just like in the winter Olympics with the downhill and ski jumps what they are wearing and the equipment they are using does matter.
I agree its good advertising, but i'm unclear (i'm googling after this) as are you it appears.
- IHaveCrayons, on 08/13/2008, -3/+8The rule is 16 year olds. It's unfair even if they indeed do better than us. Maybe we had some awesome 14 year olds and we can't use them, so it's not fair. Stop trying to justify something against the rules.
- shufan, on 08/13/2008, -1/+3It's great that this argument is generally in good nature. I hold nothing against any of you, just voicing my opinion, and I definitely see the everyone's points. I'm not very resolute, so I feel both sides of the argument. Still, I lean towards my side, of course. Haha.
- kerosion, on 08/13/2008, -6/+7> 3. The US did not lose because of whatever age the Chinese gymnasts may be, they lost because they didn't perform well. The Chinese deserved to win.
I disagree that the Chinese deserved to win. Had the Chinese not stacked the deck it's unlikely that they would have put forth the same performance. The Chinese generated an exceptional performance, but like hitting a home-run with an illegal bat in softball, that exceptional performance was generated through prohibited means. The performance that the U.S. team presented was superior to that of every country participating other than China. The unfortunate thing about this situation is that there is no way to know what would have happened in honorable competition. - ez12a, on 08/13/2008, -1/+4@people talking about puberty..
what does puberty have to do with anything? If you've studied biology you would know that a lot of exercise (which i'm sure these kids are getting) can often delay puberty due to the kid's low fat levels. being asian and having a fast metabolism doesnt help. Age is only a partial affector, and a small one at that. Guaranteeing a "minimum" age doesnt guarantee that the kid has hit puberty or not.- saranagati, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1The puberty thing has a lot to do with it, as in, it's very easy to severely injure yourself in gymnastics if you're off just by a little bit. So i'm pretty sure the olympics mainly has that rule so that young kids aren't getting injured at the olympics and to not promote coaches (and countries) to do many of these high risk skills at an odd age.
- jerrycurley, on 08/14/2008, -3/+1Being athletic can delay puberty, sure...But not all the way past age 16. And if you don't understnad how girls (and guys) change during puerty and how that change hurts in a sport that requires a lot of balance, wellm we can't help you out. I blame the public school system.
- shawn1122, on 08/14/2008, -0/+3I was waiting to find someone who'd say this...
Body fat plays a crucial role in the timing of puberty. These female gymnasts have probably had extremely low levels of body fat throughout their lives and so their puberty will likely be delayed. Having excess body fat can also make puberty occur sooner than expected.
Give these ladies a couple burgers and I'm sure they will be developing secondary sexual characteristics in no time. - ez12a, on 08/14/2008, -0/+2exactly. That is why girls are hitting puberty at a younger age more than ever esp. in the US where obesity reigns. Kids, mainly girls, hit puberty in their early 10s now.
The amount of fat has a lot to do with development, and the onset of puberty. super thin models 20 years old stop menstruating because of ridiculously low body fat.
My point is a minimum age doesnt guarantee a pubescent kid. perhaps for liability issues, sure.
- skyz, on 08/14/2008, -2/+2there is no proof of anything in china
except maybe the rather odd proportion of male children to female children - allthewhile, on 08/14/2008, -5/+91. Agreed. It would be despicable.
2. There is major proof that they're underage. Check out the journalism that the NYtimes has done on the topic. Beyond that actual evidence, anyone who has worked with children, can tell by their faces, that they're not 16. Much younger than that, for sure.
3. The Chinese performed better. However, There may have been BETTER american gymnasts who could not compete because they were not of age. Again, they only deserve to win if they play by the same rules. Apparently, they didn't.
4. I have no opinion on the age limit. It is the rule. If they broke it, they don't deserve to win.
5. Irrelevant. They broke the rules. They should be stripped of their medals.
My logic > your logic.- shufan, on 08/14/2008, -3/+4All my logic is based on the current status of the issue. They are innocent until proven guilty. If they really are guilty, then yes, i agree that you cannot say who would've won. Also, I keep saying "they", but I cannot fault the gymnasts, that would be the Chinese government's fault.
Innocent until proven guilty. There is no concrete proof yet, and yes I have read the Times article. - allthewhile, on 08/14/2008, -3/+3What evidence would you consider "concrete"?
1. It is a verified fact that China has CHEATED on age in the RECENT past in the OLYMPICS!
2. A passport was issued as proof in 2000 when this happened.
3. Chinese competition websites list the ages of the disputed girls as under the age of 16. Those websites have been removed, and the cache is not viewable in China.
4. The girls LOOK, in the face, not necessarily in body build, much younger than 16.
5. Mary Lou Retton believes them to be under age. This woman knows gymnast bodies, faces, etc.
Please, tell me, what would convince you? And I'm really asking this in good spirit. :) - shufan, on 08/14/2008, -2/+1Honestly the only thing that I will consider concrete, would be some sort of scientific determination, or an admission by anyone on the inside out of guilt.
- allthewhile, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1Think man. Think! There is no scientific test. The only evidence would be a paper trail or the testimony of witnesses. I seriously doubt anyone in China would come forward at this point.
The paper trail and the past behavior of Chinese gymnastics leads me to be at least highly suspicious of these girls. However, in your original post you claimed, "You really can't say that they are underaged, there is no proof." I think that statement was completely misleading. There is definitely evidence. Is it good evidence? That's open to interpretation. But there's some evidence nonetheless. - jjesusfreak01, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1Testimony of witnesses...how about the Chinese girl who admitted on camera she was underage at the Sydney games. I would think that if that one girl (He) was actually older, the government would have been quick to correct the many Chinese media reports that said she was 14 this year, as well as the official Chinese sports websites that listed her as that age.
- AnalJustice, on 08/14/2008, -1/+2the girls not looking 16 is completely irrelevant, and your determination to use that as "evidence" makes one question your so called "logic". Clearly you've not seen many Asians as a lot of them look younger then their actual age. The fact that China has cheated on age in the recent past in the Olympics is again completely irrelevant, as it has nothing to do with the current case involving women gymnastics. You then go on to say that a passport was issued as proof in 2000 when this happened which sadly contradicts your other statement claiming "The only evidence would be a paper trail or the testimony of witnesses. I seriously doubt anyone in China would come forward at this point." Concrete proof was issued in the past, so why would it not be the case now? (According to your logic). By the way, Mary Lou Retton's opinion would not even be considered by officials considering her background as an American. Of course the same could be said about the reliability of a Chinese gymnast claiming the opposite.
- AriaStar, on 08/14/2008, -1/+1Shufan, China's own official documents have given younger birthdates. Newspaper articles on these girls have said they were younger than 16. Circumstantial evidence says they are underage.
- shufan, on 08/14/2008, -3/+4All my logic is based on the current status of the issue. They are innocent until proven guilty. If they really are guilty, then yes, i agree that you cannot say who would've won. Also, I keep saying "they", but I cannot fault the gymnasts, that would be the Chinese government's fault.
- Fanboy88, on 08/14/2008, -8/+3USA 16 and 17 years old gymnasts can't beat 12 year olds. Wow!
- jerrycurley, on 08/14/2008, -1/+2China's 16 and 17 year old gymnasts can't beat 12 year olds either. That is why they chose to cheat.
- ouorama, on 08/14/2008, -0/+2That head coach also said he was going to jump off the tallest building if they didn't get gold.
- crsd36, on 08/14/2008, -0/+24. The age limit rule for gymnastics in the Olympics should be removed. Essentially, it is like saying to a lighter gymnast, "Sorry, you are too light to compete."
So, wrestling/boxing's weight classes should be removed?- DeviantDragon, on 08/14/2008, -1/+2Apples and oranges. There are no weight limits/restrictions in gymnastics and the perceived advantage younger athletes have, among other things, is their light weight. Thus, if the age limit is supposed to stop this from happening, why shouldn't a really light person of age also be restricted from competition.
- eclectro, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1Actually I disagree with determining an age. I bet a dentist could do it, esp. since those girls looked like they were eight years old.
- MrAwesomeMan, on 08/14/2008, -1/+01. I'm pretty sure that's what this uproar is about.
2. The girls looked like they were 10. Using your argument, that would put them at 12-13, or even 14.
3. Yes, they outperformed everyone else. However, that is all negated if they were not playing within the set rules. (See the MLB steroid scandal)
4. Maybe it should, but it hasn't been yet. If these girls were underaged, they should forfeit their medals, simply because they broke the rules. Also, you can't compare age and weight like you did. Being to young to compete is not the same as being too light to compete. Very poor analogy.
5. What??? I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.
- FUR10N, on 08/13/2008, -24/+15I saw the gymnastics part last night and I have to say that the judges were definitely bias. The Chinese were good and probably should have won anyways, but their scores were so inflated (especially for the girl that fell on the balance beam).
- V3n0M, on 08/13/2008, -10/+266You decide...
16-year-old Chinese divers:
http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/BIO/Athlete/ ...
http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/BIO/Athlete/ ...
16-year-old Chinese gymnasts:
http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/BIO/Athlete/ ...
http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/BIO/Athlete/ ...- gogog0, on 08/13/2008, -22/+34although i do think the chinese gymnasts are underage, this is a pretty bad argument. gymnasts are picked for their small stature. a 16 year old gymnast from ANY country will look younger and smaller than an average 16 year old from the same country.
- uu2b, on 08/13/2008, -9/+18Have you seen the US gymnasts?????????
FAIL - futebollounge, on 08/14/2008, -3/+5shawn johnson looks 8. with muscles
- princevdeep, on 08/14/2008, -1/+3Helloo...who said you dont need to nimble and flexible in diving as well???
- uu2b, on 08/13/2008, -9/+18Have you seen the US gymnasts?????????
- zspeed78, on 08/13/2008, -9/+6The size and weight of the drivers was about the same.. so the drivers look more 'mature' maybe because theyre a different class, thats been working already, for a few years. While gymnasts stay indoors and train most of their lives. Who knows, but their height and weight didnt do much to prove the case.
- weirdo50, on 08/14/2008, -0/+3Yeah those damn drivers with their crazy cars...
- Pedobear, on 08/13/2008, -1/+24Deng Linlin (Gymnast #1) is the spitting image of Mao Zedong. I can't unsee it. D:
- FUR10N, on 08/13/2008, -10/+115and one of them was even missing a tooth. at 16 shouldn't your adult teeth have already grown in?
- Taiyoryu, on 08/13/2008, -3/+11either that or it's a reflection of the dangers of gymnastics
- uu2b, on 08/13/2008, -4/+21So I guess we should also say the same for hockey players. Maybe she likes to fight.
- Tolzmaniac, on 08/14/2008, -0/+5teeth can be stuck in the roof of the mouth and have to be pulled down with braces
- cheshireluna, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1Actually, to me it looks like the tooth is crooked enough to have left a gap, but it's really hard to tell.
- allnone, on 08/14/2008, -0/+4This is China. Do it right the first time, or get punched in the mouth.
- fudged71, on 08/13/2008, -5/+18perfect representation of the situation. thanks
- screamthenrun, on 08/13/2008, -6/+7To be honest, the first two supposed female divers look like 14 year old boys...
And the gymnasts?... 10 or 11 year old girls.
But that being said, some people just look young..
whatever.. I guess we'll just have to let the IOC sort this out- tbrand86, on 08/13/2008, -1/+13the IOC isn't gonna do *****. They're worthless - like an athletics version of the UN. They aren't going to try and mess with the home country especially when it's China.
- triad203, on 08/13/2008, -0/+7The has IOC already stated they will not even look into these allegations.
- tbrand86, on 08/13/2008, -1/+13the IOC isn't gonna do *****. They're worthless - like an athletics version of the UN. They aren't going to try and mess with the home country especially when it's China.
- squishee, on 08/13/2008, -7/+61The first Chinese gymnast is missing a tooth. I speculate it's sitting under her pillow waiting for the Tooth Fairy.
- otto989, on 08/13/2008, -5/+17hahahaha He Kexin's birthdate is listed as Jan 1, 1992.
i mean come on, i know there are coincidences, but it's like the only way to be more conspicuous would've been to list it as Dec 31, 1992- DatruKatalyst, on 08/13/2008, -2/+3Doesn't this argument make all ppl born on New Years default nonexistent?
O.O - Zymophideth, on 08/14/2008, -2/+3Their new year falls between Jan 21st and Feb20 so it isn't suspicious at all ;)
- V3n0M, on 08/14/2008, -1/+5And the 2nd diver's birthday is December 12th - according to them the gymnast is almost a year *older* than the diver!
- DatruKatalyst, on 08/13/2008, -2/+3Doesn't this argument make all ppl born on New Years default nonexistent?
- TobyDumb, on 08/14/2008, -1/+7At 60 pounds? Look, I know the chinese have smaller builds than, say, an american, however there's no ***** way in hell a 16 year old weighs 60 pounds. If so, severely unhealthy to a point of anorexia
- BigManOnCampus, on 08/14/2008, -1/+6Assuming you are the height they are at 16, then yes, 60 lbs is only marginally malnourished (not unusual for China). The height/weight is almost meaningless. The real evidence is the missing tooth and the lack of maturity in their faces.
- QueenHawkeye, on 08/14/2008, -0/+3well, you have to look at the fact that she's only 4'6
- BigManOnCampus, on 08/14/2008, -0/+14If the gymnasts are 16, then one of the following must be true.
1) The Chinese have the fountain of youth, perhaps explaining their huge population.
2) Those gymnast girls have an aging disorder.
3) Those gymnast girls have slowed their sexual maturity with drugs.
4) The Chinese are lying about their ages.
Doesn't matter much anyway, The olympics haven't been clean since... well... since well before I was born. National prestige makes the games too big a target for cheating.- darlingt, on 08/14/2008, -4/+2"If the gymnasts are 16, then... [t]he Chinese are lying about their ages."
Wanna try that one again? :) - BigManOnCampus, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1I'm not sure how to recover from that poor wording, so we'll just let it fester.
- darlingt, on 08/14/2008, -4/+2"If the gymnasts are 16, then... [t]he Chinese are lying about their ages."
- tramblings, on 08/14/2008, -1/+768 and 73 pounds per gymnast. Enough said. Those are barely teenagers.
- Paulish, on 08/14/2008, -1/+6One of the gymnasts look like they just lost one of their baby teeth.
- conradtjbass, on 08/14/2008, -0/+4Let's also note that, in addition to the tooth, you've got 'baby fat' around the cheeks and eyes, especially in the first gymnast's picture. That body weight, with that build, in combination with the missing tooth and the excess umm... pudge? Well, you decide, I suppose.
- Triterion, on 08/14/2008, -0/+2DENG Linlin dosen't even look like she has all her adult teeth in yet!
- gogog0, on 08/13/2008, -22/+34although i do think the chinese gymnasts are underage, this is a pretty bad argument. gymnasts are picked for their small stature. a 16 year old gymnast from ANY country will look younger and smaller than an average 16 year old from the same country.
- Babblin5, on 08/13/2008, -17/+145The point is, the Olympics are SUPPOSSED to be the highest standards of athletic excellence in every spirit of the game. Just because others have cheated in the past doesn't make it alright or excusable now, especially in Eastern culture where honor is held in high regard. The 16 year old rule is there mainly for safety reasons. People would be SCREAMING if a child were severely injured (which has happened) if the rule were lifted. Yes, the U.S. screwed up, as did every other team, but it does give an unfair advantage in two regards:
1. Floor Exercise: The length of the passes is the same for everyone. Younger = shorter = less chance of going out of bounds.
2. All events: the center of balance is vastly different due to changes in... err... bodies. Every other country's competitors have had to deal with the issue, which causes a readjustment in training, technique, and balance, again giving younger competitors an advantage.
Every team suffered as a result, just not the U.S. How about the 4th place finishers who would have won bronze?
It is WOMEN'S and MEN'S gymnastics for a reason, not male and female.- msk275, on 08/13/2008, -14/+4I don't agree with any of your points.
I'm pretty sure they sign waivers that say 'If you are injuried competing, don't sue us for accepting the risk'. A billion people could cry out because Kari Strug did back in 1996 and broke her ankle, but it's looked as heroism(heroinism) now because they won because of it.
How is this cheating? Because they are younger? If they weren't better than our US women, who would be complaining?
1. Floor exercise. You are just pissed because our US girls went flying out of bounds. I felt bad for them, but I'm sure as hell not going to get pissed at the Chinese because of it.
2. Body changes? Duh. Ever watched women's track & field? You don't compete if you've gone through 'body changes'. That's a part of life, and most people deal with it.
I don't see other teams whining as much as our team. I bet most countries bitch because the US is pumped full of performance enhancing minerals that aren't detected. And don't tell me that still isn't happening.
Olympics: for the BEST in the World. Lift the age limit. Let's see the best. Mary Lou Retton looked 10 when she was flipping around earning her perfect 10.
So: Have a Coke and a Smile... and Shut the ***** up.
Thanks.- tas08, on 08/13/2008, -2/+3God you're a dumbass.
How is this cheating? Because they are younger?
-Yes. The rules say at least 16 because these little pre-pubescent girls have an unfair advantage. Plus c'mon, for the love of God I would never want my 11 year old little girl competing like that, they are children. Give me a break.
If they weren't better than our US women, who would be complaining?
-All the same people, the ones who've been complaining since before the Olympics started.
1. Yeah, that was very heartbreaking. No one is 'blaming the Chinese for it', they were mistakes by our gymnasts. If you're shorter you are less likely to go out of bounds. A 12 year old is generally shorter than a 20 year old.
2. Most people do deal with it. Specifically, all the other gymnasts who are at least 16 and have likely gone through puberty already. Why should China NOT have to deal with it?
I don't see other teams complaining as much either, mainly because I don't live in other countries and would have no idea, and also because not a lot of other teams were in serious gold medal contention that could have hinged on China playing fair. If these so called 'performance enhancing minerals' aren't detected is it because maybe, they aren't against the rules?
Lift the age limit? That's just asinine, the international stage like the Olympics is no place for children. I don't care how old Mary Lou Retton "looked" when she competed.
Thanks. - msk275, on 08/14/2008, -2/+2Best in the World. If a girl that is 12 can beat a 20 y/o.. that sucks for the 20 y/o.
I still don't see how they have an unfair advantage. Floor exercise.. okay.. they don't 'fly' out of bounds because they are a few inches shorter.. and.... they don't fall off the balance beam because they have smaller feet... and... they fly better off the vault because they are lighter... and.. they've been training since they were 3... and... they are younger... and.... it was in China... and... excuses... and... excuses.
What makes an athlete great is they rise above those excuses and do what it takes to be the best and don't give up, no matter the circumstances. Lasse Farin (sp) fell down/tripped in the 1972 Olympic 10k, he didn't sit around bitching, he got his ass up, won the race, and set an Olympic Record.
They had more difficult routines, about 2 points worth more difficult, we lost by about 2 points.. that's close. If we had hit our routines like Olympic gold medal earning athletes are suppose to, we would have won. Don't get me wrong, our girls are great and they earned the Olympic Silver medal. Well deserved.
Everyone is bringing up this 'flying out of bounds' business because we flew out of bounds twice on the floor when it was critical that we hit those routines perfectly. We didn't. What did we do? Well, they accepted the silver medal. What did the rest of us do? Whine. Like little girls.
Who are the little girls now?
Apparently a lot of people on Digg. - exomni, on 08/14/2008, -2/+1It's unfortunate msk275 is being dugg down. Both his posts are spot-on.
Olympics is about the best. Let the best compete.
- tas08, on 08/13/2008, -2/+3God you're a dumbass.
- joshuaer, on 08/13/2008, -8/+2if i recall the USA had a 14 or 15 year old boy in the Mens diving at this years Olympics. But i do agree with you it is for Men and woman not kids they should just make some kind olympics for kids.
- LemonChicken, on 08/13/2008, -0/+6Diving has different regulations.
- DeathMote, on 08/13/2008, -1/+3Being smaller also has its disadvantages.
1) On the vault it's more difficult to achieve good height because she will has much less mass to spring off the board.
2) Being shorter makes the uneven bars more difficult to move between the bars.- tas08, on 08/13/2008, -2/+7If those are true, then the younger ones don't have to compete on those devices. Not all the gymnasts use every device during competition.
- saranagati, on 08/13/2008, -0/+3Actually I would guess that so many non chinese went out of bounds on the floor because the floor was much harder than what everyone is used to (well at least they said it was harder during the mens competition). As a result most of the athletes probably felt they needed to run a little longer to gain more speed which made them finish their tumble further down which ended up being out of bounds. Training on a different floor would give you a distinct advantage on floor over other teams.
- harleq01, on 08/13/2008, -0/+21. your claim that "Younger = shorter" is not true. Many Asian countries and China in particular have small/short people regardless of their age. Yes there is a corr
- msk275, on 08/13/2008, -14/+4I don't agree with any of your points.
