kianat- Rage42, on 03/13/2008, -60/+29HAHAHAHA EVE FTW!
- fadetoone, on 03/13/2008, -12/+70I don't get it though. Is Eve really hard? or really easy? The graph implies that gaming skill goes up really fast in a short amount of time (ignoring the fact that it goes backwards in time at one point), so why are stick figures falling to their doom? They should be having fun skiing or something, since they had such an easy time learning, they have free time for recreation.
- rogersj3, on 03/13/2008, -1/+60EvE is considered to be the most difficult MMORPG to pick up.
- fadetoone, on 03/13/2008, -14/+25Right, so in that case the line for Eve should be under everything else. I realize the graph is trying to be funny, but someone that wanted to make it accurate and funny would have made the line much lower than everything else, and even go down.
- chrillen, on 03/13/2008, -6/+13Stop being such a partypooper.
- thumperings, on 03/13/2008, -4/+12you were one of those kids who lined up his cheerios before eating them aren't you?
- Gratefuldead, on 03/13/2008, -1/+3no one does that....crazy
- therightclique, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3the whole thing is stupid anyone.
- mlwarrior, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2I thought the same thing when I first looked at this picture. But then again, I have an education.
- crazykid596, on 03/14/2008, -0/+0its like this: wow im really good at this game and i just got it yesterday. wait. nevermind
- alittleroy101, on 03/13/2008, -2/+17Look at that axis as SKILL REQUIRED. There is no easing into this game.
- svnft, on 03/13/2008, -4/+25look at the X axis. It's TIME SPENT PLAYING. This is saying you gain a lot of skill very quickly, which is not a high learning curve. He's right, the line should be under the others and almost flat. They should be hanging themselves off the very right of this line, bringing new meaning to flat-lined.
- Syzothermy, on 03/13/2008, -1/+3The graph can't even be as accurate as all of the posts (above this one) want it to be. Eve's line isn't even a function.
It's a joke, people. calm down. - Karmavs, on 03/13/2008, -0/+6@svnft — reading the Y axis as "Skill Required", it means that in a very short amount of time playing EVE, it'll get a whole lot harder to play.
- ShrimpCrackers, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1Its true. Eve is so difficult that there are even player corporations that train people how to play such as 'Eve University'.
You start off with a few million skill points allowing you to tackle or webify or nos, and then after that its the long haul. Since skills max out at level 5 and there are hundreds of skills, you've got options but you'll always be lacking skills to patch up all the holes in your ship/trading/mining etc setup.
- fadetoone, on 03/13/2008, -14/+25Right, so in that case the line for Eve should be under everything else. I realize the graph is trying to be funny, but someone that wanted to make it accurate and funny would have made the line much lower than everything else, and even go down.
- theaceoffire, on 03/13/2008, -1/+7I doubt people intentionally ski end-over-end towards a brightly colored wall of razor wire.
- Gratefuldead, on 03/13/2008, -0/+6shows what you know
- Future2, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3You're the stickman trying to climb to the next level (in more ways than one). It's an extremely difficult task, and halfway through the process you want to kill yourself.
- Otto, on 03/13/2008, -11/+19The fact that you can't read a graph is not the graph's fault.
Vertical: How much Gaming Skill you need to play.
Horizonal: Time played in the game.
It's an obvious learning curve graph. The other games get harder slowly. Eve gets hard to play really fast. Not that difficult to understand.- jj101, on 03/13/2008, -2/+30It depends whether you interpret "gaming skill" as skill required or skill acquired.
- Otto, on 03/13/2008, -16/+5Except for the fact that "Skill acquired" doesn't make any sense, you'd be correct.
- Flangeman, on 03/13/2008, -2/+13"Skill aquired" makes perfect sense. If you're not born with natural talent you have to get it from somewhere. Therefore the skill has to be 'aquired', by learning it.
- joosebuck, on 03/13/2008, -1/+5agreed. the graph's ambiguity shouldn't be used to scoff at someone who doesnt get it.
- alittleroy101, on 03/13/2008, -2/+2What is ambiguos about the graph? Also, if you insist on its being "Skill acquired", wouldn't logic dictate that if you are acquiring massive amounts of skill in a short time that it is MORE difficult than a task in which you learn nothing?
- fadetoone, on 03/13/2008, -3/+4@alittleroy101
No... acquiring massive amounts of skill in a short amount of time implies that it's really EASY. Difficult things take longer to learn. Pretty simple concept. - fadetoone, on 03/13/2008, -2/+1Here's an idea... one of you find a learning curve graph that shows skill required to play the game as opposed to experience/skill gained. Then you can put this argument to bed.
- Otto, on 03/13/2008, -3/+2If it's really easy, then you would not gain any real skill.
No, the graph is not ambiguous at all. You're just overthinking it. - Gratefuldead, on 03/13/2008, -2/+2Freakin Dorks
- oldno7brand, on 03/13/2008, -5/+9You would be correct if the vertical axis was titled "Difficulty" However, it is not. Fadetoone is exactly right and you, sir, are horribly, horribly mistaken.
- fadetoone, on 03/13/2008, -4/+6I didn't realize that so many people needed education on what a learning curve is. Here is an example of a shallow learning curve:
http://www.casualgamedesign.com/images/shallowlear ...
Shallow means "easy."
And I know your first argument is going to be "the axes don't match." Well my friend, "understanding" is roughly similar to "skill" and "effort" is roughly similar to "time spent."
This lesson has now concluded. Now please go about your day.
- jj101, on 03/13/2008, -2/+30It depends whether you interpret "gaming skill" as skill required or skill acquired.
- DarkFoxDK, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2This is why it's so easy to cheat people with a graph!
- rogersj3, on 03/13/2008, -1/+60EvE is considered to be the most difficult MMORPG to pick up.
- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -21/+15I think this illustrates why Eve is FTL actually... The gameplay is so boring, and so much just about navigating menus that noone sticks with to reach the really high content.
Oh look! A space pirate! Now I get to right click and choose my orbit distance from it then turn my weapons on and orbit til it happens to blow up.- TheG2, on 03/13/2008, -7/+26If thats how you see EVE then you've obviously never played. The whole concept behind is basically a study in Anarcho-capitalism whereas you can do pretty much anything you want in the game. And the politics that are a major component of the big alliances in the game is nearly a game in itself.
And killing NPC pirates is no different than WoW, click target, run to it, hit buttons until it dies..- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -4/+22No, I have played. I realize that the overall "big" concepts are very cool. The trouble is, the gameplay sucks balls. Its boring to watch, boring to do. In WoW, you are required to be engaged the whole fight. In Eve, you set your orbit, turn your guns on and go afk for 30 seconds or so. Getting into the bigger alliances, and building space stations and stuff is cool and all. But none of it actually "fun" as youre doing it. Eve is all about the planning, all about time and money management. Not enough fun action.
- drakenlot, on 03/13/2008, -0/+5I found the same thing with those X games, I had fun playing them, since space war is cool.
But no one else I knew found it entertaining in the least, it's simply too slow for them. - Xuerian, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1Which is why many of us were waiting hardly-patiently for a X-Universe game. It, unfortunately, never came =(
- duncanspumpkin, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1I wouldnt count your chickens im sure it will be made eventually its just got to.
- EgaoNoGenki, on 03/13/2008, -0/+6Harabeck, once you've had enough of EVE, can I have all your stuff? And your ISK, too? Again, my main is Kanarue Shinohara.
- drakenlot, on 03/13/2008, -0/+5I found the same thing with those X games, I had fun playing them, since space war is cool.
- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -4/+22No, I have played. I realize that the overall "big" concepts are very cool. The trouble is, the gameplay sucks balls. Its boring to watch, boring to do. In WoW, you are required to be engaged the whole fight. In Eve, you set your orbit, turn your guns on and go afk for 30 seconds or so. Getting into the bigger alliances, and building space stations and stuff is cool and all. But none of it actually "fun" as youre doing it. Eve is all about the planning, all about time and money management. Not enough fun action.
- protogenxl, on 03/14/2008, -0/+2You want fun ?
Get a Manticore and Drop-in on a large Mining Op
- TheG2, on 03/13/2008, -7/+26If thats how you see EVE then you've obviously never played. The whole concept behind is basically a study in Anarcho-capitalism whereas you can do pretty much anything you want in the game. And the politics that are a major component of the big alliances in the game is nearly a game in itself.
- badjoke, on 03/13/2008, -3/+5Calm down, sir.
- hawk0168, on 03/13/2008, -2/+11It's sad that I'm reading this and actually WANTING to try EVE.
- r3zonance, on 03/13/2008, -2/+3Just think of EVE as more in-depth and multi-player version of Elite :D
- iticu, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Eve isn't really that difficult, as long as you have some common sense and don't take it to seriously.
- bagelmaster, on 03/13/2008, -3/+4It's not so much that it's difficult but that it's boring as hell.
- fluidfoundation, on 03/13/2008, -0/+4I miss Earth & Beyond. It was EVE lite.
- Rich711, on 03/13/2008, -1/+2I miss Wing Commander.
- wellyuk, on 03/13/2008, -2/+2I miss Space Invaders.
- Rich711, on 03/13/2008, -1/+2I miss Wing Commander.
- fadetoone, on 03/13/2008, -12/+70I don't get it though. Is Eve really hard? or really easy? The graph implies that gaming skill goes up really fast in a short amount of time (ignoring the fact that it goes backwards in time at one point), so why are stick figures falling to their doom? They should be having fun skiing or something, since they had such an easy time learning, they have free time for recreation.
- Rabdsquirlz, on 03/13/2008, -9/+203How long ago was Second Genesis? We're on Trinity now.
Anyways, dugg for EVE reference- Zsinj, on 03/13/2008, -0/+31It's actually a mistake in the comic. Eve: Second Genesis is the Collectible Card Game (CCG) that CCP developed. Apparently the artist doesn't play EVE.
- v0yeur, on 03/13/2008, -2/+26that chart is also proportional to maturity level:
EVE > WoW - EgaoNoGenki, on 03/13/2008, -0/+8Is this an insult to EVE? Or the opposite?
Dugg; that's my game. My main is Kanarue Shinohara. Yours?- sepelester, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1Sepe Lester. Pleased to meet you.
- Aldrenean, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2Aldrenean Nearo.
God, I hope this doesn't lead to a Digg corp... - ianandris, on 03/13/2008, -0/+0I'd be down for a Digg wolf packl. Mahn AlNouhm is my main. You'll find me roaming metro with The Bastards. If you're ever around Evati. Brin, Gultratren, look me up.
- b-dizzle, on 03/14/2008, -0/+2Somebody should start a Digg corp- i'd be all over that.
- bmc152006, on 03/14/2008, -0/+1My Favorite game. My main is Ezyl, hit me up in game sometime.
- getrdone656, on 03/13/2008, -6/+1Does anyone notice that the time spent playing goes back in time. I'm no math teacher but I'm pretty sure that you can't have a graph going back in time
- Zalyster, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2188 mph
- Nekronaut, on 03/13/2008, -1/+81.21 Gigga Watts
- cornflakepirate, on 03/13/2008, -0/+4No, really? I guess maybe that could be part of the joke?
- Zalyster, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2188 mph
- DefaultGen, on 03/14/2008, -1/+2I'm glad someone else caught the EVE reference.
- someuser90, on 03/14/2008, -5/+1MMOGs don't require skill, just the ability to memorise game specific nonsense, and patience.
Personally, I like online team FPS, I don't have much time to play. There is a basic hand eye reaction speed skill required to move and aim. The level playing field in FPS means the truly skillful and not just the patient will own. In eve its just a matter of grinding for months until you can click on a dot on the screen, and select which weapons to use from a menu, meh sounds so boring. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of space strategy games, but one without leveling would be good, grand theft auto in space would be fun.- Goya, on 04/04/2008, -0/+1There is still something to be said for having patience. Shoot i remember having to wait several days just to complete a D&D dice and paper quest. And I would argue that there is a skill in playing certain character groups correctly on tough group quests. It may be slower paced than COD4, but a non-gamer like my mom could probably not just learn maybe "what dot to click" but she could never tank a group.
- dubloe7, on 03/13/2008, -4/+204this web game doesn't seem very playable.
- hawarkarem, on 03/13/2008, -12/+6I was able to resize the image to fit my browser. Gets a thumbs up from me.
- drakenlot, on 03/13/2008, -11/+1Needs more cowbell for that.
- EgaoNoGenki, on 03/13/2008, -7/+2So what? You train skills when you sleep in this game. You don't have to do anything, you don't even have to log on, things like that.
- digichris, on 03/14/2008, -5/+1...which is what partly makes this game boring as hell.
- DonAndy, on 03/14/2008, -0/+4Yeah, grinding non-stop is so much more fun.
- digichris, on 03/14/2008, -5/+1...which is what partly makes this game boring as hell.
- ShoGunX900, on 03/13/2008, -7/+365stick figures on line graphs ftw
- DaHuuuuuudge, on 03/13/2008, -1/+84I don't understand why "conventional" math classes never teach this technique.
- merripen, on 03/13/2008, -21/+9Oh, there's the black line.
- billski, on 03/13/2008, -4/+4wow.
- Username314, on 03/15/2008, -0/+3no, wow is the red line.
- billski, on 03/13/2008, -4/+4wow.
- Easyoffbam, on 03/13/2008, -63/+46Did anybody else read MMORPGS as "mu-mor-per-gers"?
- dansmeek, on 03/13/2008, -19/+5nah i pronounce it em-em-orpegs
- wTheOnew, on 03/13/2008, -1/+9That was WAY over your head wasn't it?
- stuy486, on 03/13/2008, -1/+11Nah, he just doesn't check Digg on Wednesdays apparently.
- wTheOnew, on 03/13/2008, -1/+9That was WAY over your head wasn't it?
- ileftfark, on 03/13/2008, -4/+42Grandpa, get off the Internet, and come take your meds! :)
- rboyce, on 03/13/2008, -12/+18Guys, it's a Zero Punctuation reference! This requires digging up!
- davidrools, on 03/14/2008, -0/+1I thought Lord Yahtzee pronounced it more like "muh MOR puh guh"
- slundal, on 03/13/2008, -8/+7THIS IS AN MUMORPEGER!!!!!
- merper, on 03/13/2008, -1/+31Are they digging you down because of the Zero Punctuation reference or cause they don't know it?
- Supurcell, on 03/13/2008, -0/+6Hopefully it's because of the former.
- Dracusis, on 03/14/2008, -0/+2who cares, either way it wasn't funny.
- chronichyjinx, on 03/13/2008, -4/+16Yes, Zero Punctuation did that to me too...
- badjoke, on 03/13/2008, -3/+4I say "mmmmor-pig."
- pahool, on 03/13/2008, -2/+5mmmm...per-gers...
- Zippo, on 03/13/2008, -4/+3I just say M-M-O's
- nontitle, on 03/13/2008, -3/+2What if I say M M O R P G? Does that make me a loser?
- blakmajik, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2Yes.
mmm-per-gers ftw - HeyLew, on 03/14/2008, -0/+2IMO the only way to say it is "M M O R P G" or simply M M O
- blakmajik, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2Yes.
- EgaoNoGenki, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2I thought that was an allusion (or is it called a spoonerism?) to "Asperger's."
- melonade, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2I just don't say it
- ElusiveByte, on 03/14/2008, -0/+1More Burgers!
- dansmeek, on 03/13/2008, -19/+5nah i pronounce it em-em-orpegs
- XmenArt, on 03/13/2008, -5/+21Mirror: http://peachpic.com/out.php/i29_LearningCurve.jpg
- TheG2, on 03/13/2008, -23/+11EVE doesn't have so much of a learning curve as a learning cliff.
- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -2/+50Which, zomg, is exactly what the picture shows...
- se1zure, on 03/13/2008, -1/+8actually the picture shows that the game is increadibly easy to learn, and somehow you will manage to gain skill while going back in time.
- undersky, on 03/14/2008, -1/+1smartest comment on this thread for sure.
- se1zure, on 03/13/2008, -1/+8actually the picture shows that the game is increadibly easy to learn, and somehow you will manage to gain skill while going back in time.
- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -2/+50Which, zomg, is exactly what the picture shows...
- mrbroli, on 03/13/2008, -16/+8Dugg for Crucifixion
- unknownnf, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3And hanging, falling, impaling and riding on the wrong side of a bulldozer, I'm buying that game.
- IncogMosqui, on 03/13/2008, -3/+4I'll be sure to pod you after a month of skill training - with your no doubt un-upgraded clone - so that you get the full effect.
// EVE player going on 2 years now.
- IncogMosqui, on 03/13/2008, -3/+4I'll be sure to pod you after a month of skill training - with your no doubt un-upgraded clone - so that you get the full effect.
- max420, on 03/13/2008, -0/+5I don't think its that Eve has a bad learning curve. Its just that the game is less forgiving if you screw up. INstead of just dying and respawing with a little less gold, you can lose months, or even weeks of training if you screw up. Makes the game better, because your actions actually have significant consequences.
- HoratioHellpop, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1//you can lose months, or even weeks of training if you screw up// Can you gain years, or even minutes, of experience if you don't screw up?
- unknownnf, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3And hanging, falling, impaling and riding on the wrong side of a bulldozer, I'm buying that game.
- Silverain, on 03/13/2008, -10/+2Point-and-click
- EgaoNoGenki, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2What MMO lets me play twitch-aim?
- FuZ3, on 03/13/2008, -12/+2I'm rather fond of just holding the M and pronouncing it Morp'g.
- stefl, on 03/13/2008, -3/+579You know a game is worth it when you actually go back in time to hang yourself.
- billski, on 03/13/2008, -6/+33dugg for pointing out what i'm sure a lot of people missed
- Rikushix, on 03/13/2008, -0/+5I shudder to think what would happen if they included a few "web browser" games...Runescape would just be a flat line.
Tibia would actually go backwards off the page.- lime148, on 03/19/2008, -0/+1You're mistaking skill needed for fun. If it was graphing fun, all lines would be flat on the bottom, as we're talking about MMOs.
- jejeje666, on 03/13/2008, -3/+15It's not that you go back in time. It's just that there are moments where the game presents two levels of complexity at the same time. This in turn creates a duality in the universe. A parallel universe, if you will. And in one of those universes, you will hang yourself.
- NathaMan10101, on 03/19/2008, -0/+2But that kils yourself in the outher universe thus causes a rift in the space time contiumim thusa the universe explodes all cas of the damed EVE.Its like typeing "Google" into google
- below413, on 03/13/2008, -1/+8The ordinate should be "Difficulty," not "Gaming Skill." This graph is actually saying the game is easier than the others. It says that your skill goes up very fast in a short amount of "time spent playing."
- undersky, on 03/14/2008, -0/+3doesn't make sense either. the graph is just a failure.
- TobiasParker, on 03/13/2008, -5/+219Can someone explain this for anyone who has not played Eve online?
- dorrin26, on 03/13/2008, -13/+38Eve training for their skills is in real-time to make your character more powerful, whereas the other games you gain points per level by killing stuff to make your character more powerful
- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -1/+12Right, killing stuff only gets money and rep. Also travelling involves either setting your course and going afk for half an hour, or if your worried about gate campers, making the jumps manually for half and hour.
- r3zonance, on 03/13/2008, -1/+19If you make the jumps manually it'll be less than half an hour as you can jump 0km from gate, auto is 15km from gates. :P
- bruce86, on 03/13/2008, -1/+47really its like spending money to watch grass grow, then when the grass grows to long you blast it with your spaceship and your e-penis grows a little bit bigger.
- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -1/+12Right, killing stuff only gets money and rep. Also travelling involves either setting your course and going afk for half an hour, or if your worried about gate campers, making the jumps manually for half and hour.
- drakenlot, on 03/13/2008, -28/+4You need explaining? This shows just how incredibly n00b unfriendly EVE is.
- fadetoone, on 03/13/2008, -3/+2In that case, the line should be horizontal or, to be funny, go down instead of up to reflect the game skill. The current image shows game skill increasing really fast, which is apparently contrary to common knowledge.
- drakenlot, on 03/13/2008, -2/+1The y-axis seems to be mis-labeled. Should be 'Time Spent Learning'
- Otto, on 03/13/2008, -4/+2No, because those not only would not be funny, but also would not make sense. Learn to read a graph.
- fadetoone, on 03/13/2008, -1/+2@drakenlot
Time spent playing = time spent learning. The y-axis is the amount of skill or progress.
I will direct you to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_curve to learn more.- drakenlot, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1I mean 'time spent learning' to 'time spent playing' as with WoW, you learn and play at the same time, same with Pirates and LOTR to an extent.
EVE, you spend so much more time learning, that you hit an endless amount of hurdles before you really start to enjoy the game.
Seems to make sense to me. - fadetoone, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1And, yet, while you are learning, you are still playing, right?
- Herald42, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2Not really. You're AFK waiting for the next jump, reading guides and forums and hoping someone doesn't pod you.
- drakenlot, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1I mean 'time spent learning' to 'time spent playing' as with WoW, you learn and play at the same time, same with Pirates and LOTR to an extent.
- fadetoone, on 03/13/2008, -3/+2In that case, the line should be horizontal or, to be funny, go down instead of up to reflect the game skill. The current image shows game skill increasing really fast, which is apparently contrary to common knowledge.
- TheG2, on 03/13/2008, -3/+204dorrin26 wasn't really clear. The reason EVE is so difficult is basically, after the first few tutorials, you're on your own. Theres no one telling you to go do a quest (Missions in EVE) or where to go. You're entirely on your own. Learning how to play the market, avoid being blown up by Pirates, joining a corporation (all player run with a few exceptions), and choosing a profession are all up to you. Problem being that the complete lack of structure can scare off most new players because the skill system can be quite massive when you first start out and you need at least a little guidance for your training.
- TobiasParker, on 03/13/2008, -1/+19sounds like something i could get into, but i have little enough of a life as it is.
- Beto0707, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2That's one of the great things about Eve. Since the skills train in real time, you can not play heavily for long periods of time but still level the character quite dramatically.
- r3zonance, on 03/13/2008, -0/+15Of course, if you read the manual to EVE (whilst a little outdated in places) nearly everything is detailed there. And there is always http://eve.grismar.net, an awesome site it is too.
Don't confuse "on your own" with "can't be arsed to read the manual".- ozziegt, on 03/13/2008, -6/+11A good game doesn't require someone to read the manual.
- phronko, on 03/13/2008, -0/+25I remember the good old days, when you had to read the manual for even the simplest NES game to know what the hell to do. You kids with your ingame tutorials are spoiled. Also, we had to trudge through 10-feet of snow just to plug in our wired controllers.
- zdiddy85, on 03/14/2008, -1/+4What phronko says is the truth. Dugg.
- Velnich, on 03/14/2008, -0/+2I think you meant a "simple" game, which doesn't always mean good.
- Disease, on 03/13/2008, -1/+10Manuals are for quitters.
- ozziegt, on 03/13/2008, -6/+11A good game doesn't require someone to read the manual.
- NinjaBoy, on 03/13/2008, -1/+8And they do it on because the key to being good at eve to to con and scam people. It doesnt sound fun, but once you get into it, your hooked.
- ubuntu710, on 03/13/2008, -0/+4sounds scary
- wharrislv, on 03/13/2008, -1/+2Kind of true, but...google. At this point community support is almost unrequired for gameplay help, at least.
and BTW, eve has to be the most boring and artificially complex game I've ever played. I think most people that think its comlpex are people who haven't played more than a week or two. Once you get over the intimidation factor, the game is actually kind of straightforward. - timusca, on 03/13/2008, -2/+2Reminds me of Myst.
- esteskid, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Eve is so time consuming, I end up just remaking trial accounts and attempting to survive out in the low sec regions
- flashingcurser, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1So is it as brutal as the original UO?
- TobiasParker, on 03/13/2008, -1/+19sounds like something i could get into, but i have little enough of a life as it is.
- rogersj3, on 03/13/2008, -5/+125EvE is much more in depth than simply being told: Go kill X of Y and I'll give you Z - every aspect of the economy is controlled by the players. The PvP experience is incredibly deep and to quote Douglas Adams, 'space is big.' All players are on a single server rather than being split into shards, so you actually are playing with more people than any other MMORPG. Not to mention the intricacies of Politics and player owned regions of space, or the fact that most of everything in the economy of EvE was made by a player, from player mined materials, using player created/researched blueprints.
Simply put: EvE is to WoW what the US Government is to a tribal government.- robotuprising, on 03/13/2008, -5/+140Wait...so EVE is corrupt, failing, and full of douchebags?
- cogsprocket, on 03/13/2008, -2/+40Bingo!
- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -1/+47Well actually, player scamming is very common. If you talk to GM's about it, they tell you to not make that mistake again.
- r3zonance, on 03/13/2008, -1/+35With the exception of failing, you are spot on. There are ore thieves, player pirate corporations/alliances.
But hell, it's an awesome experience. My hats off to the developers. - jaderobbins, on 03/13/2008, -1/+10I remember a buddy and me were fairly new to the game and some guy was stealing ore out of our containers, so he went back on got his attack ship (the pirate seemed pretty low tech and he thought he could get him) well when the guy came back he switched to his tech II cruiser and owned the hell out of us.
It was pretty funny. - ProgressBar, on 04/08/2008, -0/+1And all the better for it!! Eve that is.
- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -4/+14Actually, you play with very few people. There are so many systems that seeing someone fly by in Eve is much more rare than seeing someone run past in WoW. You eventually get to know the people in corp of course, and maybe a few others that also run in your neighborhood, but it can actually get pretty lonely.
- talonjasra, on 03/13/2008, -1/+9Thats only if your not in the NPC regulated space (high sec)
- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -0/+7What? High sec is incredibly crowded, some are so bad the lag makes you take 5 mintues to undock. If its not a hub world, then there are people heading to hub worlds.
- junaru, on 03/13/2008, -0/+4And at that point you should leave your isk farming corp/alliance....
- doctorperv, on 03/13/2008, -1/+18holy ***** this sounds nerdy
- UglieJosh, on 03/13/2008, -0/+10I play WoW and it sounds nerdy, even to me.
- Pillage, on 03/14/2008, -0/+8In EVE no one can hear you scream.
- airstrike, on 03/14/2008, -0/+1being lonely and listening to that awesome soundtrack was one of the reasons i used to like it so much.
- ProgressBar, on 04/08/2008, -0/+1You sir have obviously never been to Jita.
- illt, on 03/13/2008, -1/+7WOW, sounds awesome, like the economies in the original star wars galaxies
- nikko11, on 03/13/2008, -1/+1Yeah, comparisons of Eve and the original Star Wars Galaxies (NOT THE NGE) would be accurate.
There is a lot of stuff to learn and then put to use. Crafting, economy, factional fighting, ships, resources, etc...
I miss SWG, looking very much forward to SWGEmu (swgemu.com)
- nikko11, on 03/13/2008, -1/+1Yeah, comparisons of Eve and the original Star Wars Galaxies (NOT THE NGE) would be accurate.
- pnmoore, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1Dude, comparing EVE to the US government is NOT a compliment!
- rogersj3, on 03/13/2008, -1/+10I wasn't comparing the two at all. The logical statement X is to Y as P is to Q can be used to help those with no understanding of X get some perspective, assuming they are familiar with Y, P, and Q. P and Q do not have anything to do with X and Y however - they are independent statements used to clarify relationships.
- daborg, on 03/13/2008, -1/+19Dugg for the most unclear possible way of clarifying something. :-D
- rogersj3, on 03/13/2008, -1/+10I wasn't comparing the two at all. The logical statement X is to Y as P is to Q can be used to help those with no understanding of X get some perspective, assuming they are familiar with Y, P, and Q. P and Q do not have anything to do with X and Y however - they are independent statements used to clarify relationships.
- tcpip4lyfe, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3This game sounds awesome. Does it have a subscription fee?
- rogersj3, on 03/14/2008, -0/+4The client is free, subscription is 15 a month. Also available through steam.
- Gizza, on 03/14/2008, -0/+3Currently has a 21 day trial through Steam. Also from what I understand you can actually pay to play using the in game currency (isk), but I'd imagine it's only the most dedicated richest players who have enough to do that.
- tcpip4lyfe, on 03/14/2008, -0/+1Sounds a little too intense for me.
- rogersj3, on 03/14/2008, -0/+4The client is free, subscription is 15 a month. Also available through steam.
- PunkRampant, on 03/13/2008, -0/+8Yeah that does sound pretty cool. A game where players aren't coddled like babies for the sake of fairness? Sign me up.
- NathaMan10101, on 03/18/2008, -0/+0IDK why am i posting?
- robotuprising, on 03/13/2008, -5/+140Wait...so EVE is corrupt, failing, and full of douchebags?
- munawarali2, on 03/13/2008, -0/+44So wait, that sounds awesome. Why am I not playing this game? I'm thinking, "Looks good on paper, too complex in reality"
- Stupidumb, on 03/13/2008, -2/+7Because griefers will ruin the game for you.
- sporkmonger, on 03/13/2008, -1/+4What he said. As it stands now, suicidal griefers (mostly originating from the SomethingAweful forums) can blow up your ship whenever they like and as long as they kill you before the police show up, they consider it mission accomplished. The police may blow them up in retaliation, but in EvE, you can kit out an effective fighting ship for potentially hundreds of times less cash than the cost of the ships you're destroying. Griefers measure success by net value destroyed compared to net value lost when they die. A couple griefers flying cheap ships destroy your Hulk, worth hundreds of millions of ISK. They lose a couple million, refit in 10 minutes, and repeat.
That said, miners may be able to adjust to the threat by simply hiring a few anti-frigate destroyers with fast lock times to defend them, but for whatever reason, that hasn't happened yet. - Aldrenean, on 03/13/2008, -0/+4That's not exactly griefing, per se... You'll only get suicide ganked if you're hauling enough money value to outweigh (significantly) the cost of the ship that the attacker is using, as CONCORD (the high-security systems' police force) will kill them. Escaping CONCORD after aggroing them is considered an exploit. And because the ganker needs to kill you very quickly, as CONCORD materializes more or less out of thin air, they'll be flying a pretty expensive ship. They'll have buddies along to pick up your cargo, but they won't join in the fight, because then they would be blown up by CONCORD too. Basically, you only have to worry about suicide ganking if you are hauling several hunderd million in ISK. If you are hauling that much, you should be well able to afford an escort that will make it damn hard for anyone to get the jump on you.
Know, however, that this only applies in High-sec, which are systems with security ratings of 0.5 to 1.0. This is Empire space, and it's patrolled. In low-sec, 0.1 to 0.4, those who instigate random PvP will lose standing with CONCORD, eventually to the point where they will be attacked if they enter High-sec, but can still kill people indiscriminately, only having to worry about stationary sentry guns around jumpgates and stations. In 0.0 security systems, it's total no-man's-land, controlled by player-run corporations.
So, if you're gonna haul, haul with an escort. :)
- sporkmonger, on 03/13/2008, -1/+4What he said. As it stands now, suicidal griefers (mostly originating from the SomethingAweful forums) can blow up your ship whenever they like and as long as they kill you before the police show up, they consider it mission accomplished. The police may blow them up in retaliation, but in EvE, you can kit out an effective fighting ship for potentially hundreds of times less cash than the cost of the ships you're destroying. Griefers measure success by net value destroyed compared to net value lost when they die. A couple griefers flying cheap ships destroy your Hulk, worth hundreds of millions of ISK. They lose a couple million, refit in 10 minutes, and repeat.
- Lunarbunny, on 03/13/2008, -0/+19I personally see EVE to be boring because of the same reason real life events need to be condensed for adaptation to books or movies - in reality, there's a lot of waiting, preparing, waiting, waiting, and waiting involved in doing anything remotely exciting, all which could be illustrated in a movie in 2 minutes but really takes more like 2 months. I mean read the story of the Guiding Hand Social Club corporation's raid on another corporation. Lots of infiltration and preparation that took them months of careful planning and subterfuge, condensed into a much more exciting 4 magazine pages. http://eve.klaki.net/heist/
- TobiasParker, on 03/13/2008, -0/+7amazing, i must play this game.
- Kornstalx, on 03/14/2008, -0/+2Lunar, I had never seen that PCGamer article you linked. VERY good read.
Thanks for the link!
- Stupidumb, on 03/13/2008, -2/+7Because griefers will ruin the game for you.
- bobcrotch, on 03/13/2008, -8/+34I love how anyone referencing eve is dug up, but anyone talking about any other MMO ever is automatically laughed at. Somehow Eve is like less lame because it's super hard?
- janeuner, on 03/13/2008, -4/+46Actually, yes.
- kakihara0513, on 03/13/2008, -0/+5Same thing with pre-cu Galaxies
- xero040486, on 03/13/2008, -2/+24EVE is is business/political simulator that just happens to take place in space. WoW is a game where everything is handed to you on a silver platter while your androgynous elf happily kills dragons with super magical powers.
I played EVE for two weeks and WoW for three years and I freely admit this. - Qumahlin, on 03/14/2008, -1/+7Yes, elitists love to play games that normal people don't want too. I personally play games to have fun. To have fun in EvE as a new player requires a MASSIVE time investment...which unless you work from home, or are a kid is really not possible. When I play a game, if its not fun in the first hour, the game is getting returned. If your game takes more then an hour to be enjoyable you've already cut out a large portion of your audience.
- boo19, on 03/14/2008, -1/+3/agree
- janeuner, on 03/13/2008, -4/+46Actually, yes.
- KingGorilla, on 03/13/2008, -3/+12It's a really hard game
- AussieFox, on 03/13/2008, -2/+23I play EVE. It is hard.
Here are some rules
1) If you undock from station, you can be killed. Anywhere, by anyone. CONCORD (police) only provide consequences, not safety.
2) Scamming and unethical behaviour some would consider griefing is not only allowed, it is encouraged and rewarded by the game mechanics.
3) You get blown up. You've lost your ship and most of your equipment and cargo. If another player killed you, you've lost it all. These are often pirates. Thats there way of playing. They will actively go out of their way to kill you
4) Newbies die. Lots.
5) You will lose money. LOTS OF IT. I myself yesterday had 60,000,000 ISK (ingame currency), I now stand at 20,000 ISK.
6) NEVER put all your eggs in one basket. There have been many times that some idiot has lost billions because he transported stuff without escort or a scout.- almosttape, on 03/13/2008, -1/+4you will also learn about the vast loneliness of space. first hand. getting around in this game takes hours sometimes.
- ProgressBar, on 04/08/2008, -0/+1*cough* Jump Clones
- h4mx0r, on 03/14/2008, -0/+7Reminds me of the Great Scam.
Still, it's interesting that griefing is encouraged. It adds a realistic social touch to it. I mean, in real life, you're still going to have people trying to trick you, so this is the same thing.- andres9888, on 03/14/2008, -0/+2You my friend just made me want to play this game even more.
- AussieFox, on 03/15/2008, -0/+2The reason it's encouraged is because unlike other MMO's like WOW, PVP can be anywhere, anytime, with anyone, without consent.
Meaning you can get people back for doing things to you
- almosttape, on 03/13/2008, -1/+4you will also learn about the vast loneliness of space. first hand. getting around in this game takes hours sometimes.
- daizaru, on 03/13/2008, -1/+6The graph is bad because basically it says as time goes on gaming skill gets higher faster. Which is wrong.
They are trying to say much more skill is required, I would personally replace the word skill with patience.
Level of dedication, ability to lose everything you own. It's more for the hardcore player who wants to deal with that stress and it's truly not for everyone.
I define skill as prowess, how difficult is the game once you've had the patience to build to your stacked deck. It's really not any harder once your at that point. It takes longer to get there and requires a lot of patience but I definitely wouldn't say you have to be more skillful to play it.
The learning curve is longer and has no maximum. So it should actually be the lowest on the graph if you're measuring amount of game skills acquired over time. This is just the game mechanics and hardly what I personally measure to be skillful.
Every game has varying skill levels required to play it and are based on the player not the game.
- dorrin26, on 03/13/2008, -13/+38Eve training for their skills is in real-time to make your character more powerful, whereas the other games you gain points per level by killing stuff to make your character more powerful
- maninthespoon, on 03/13/2008, -8/+2Help im bein PVPd!!!
- HackerJacks, on 03/13/2008, -42/+25Eve sucks. It's just a bunch of 30 year old elitist nerds who take their space game way to seriously.
- TuxedoMax, on 03/13/2008, -3/+131"___sucks. It's just a bunch of ___year old _____ nerds who take their ______ game way to seriously."
Awesome, now I have a template for complaining about every video game made.- enclaved, on 03/13/2008, -1/+25Sesame Street: Learning ABCs sucks. It's just a bunch of 4 year old newb nerds who take their learning game way to seriously.
Works for me! - drakenlot, on 03/13/2008, -2/+18I'll try it.
Halo sucks. It's just a bunch of 15 year old childish nerds who take their FPS game way to seriously.
Works perfectly.- Linkin4, on 03/13/2008, -4/+2subtract a few years and it would look good to me too, last time I checked I hit puberty before 15.
- MrBone, on 03/13/2008, -0/+11My job sucks. It's just a bunch of 35 year old audio nerds who take their professional game way to seriously.
Works for real life as well!- Memitim, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Now you're talking money. Knew this dude who worked actions in EQ1 like a fiend. He ended up making a few grand a month for a while just trading up a truckload of plat and then selling it to sites that bought it. Nothing's taken too seriously when you get that kind of coin in return.
- TuxedoMax, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2I forgot to correct "to" into "too" but I think the grammar error makes the whole thing more realistic.
- enclaved, on 03/13/2008, -1/+25Sesame Street: Learning ABCs sucks. It's just a bunch of 4 year old newb nerds who take their learning game way to seriously.
- sherkaner, on 03/13/2008, -2/+15I think you just convinced me that I should give EVE a try.
- mitchlourens, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3There is a trial on the website, easy to set up.
- maninthespoon, on 03/13/2008, -1/+13I'll have to disagree there, internet spaceships are serious business.
- IncogMosqui, on 03/13/2008, -0/+14someone's obviously bitter about a podding.
- TuxedoMax, on 03/13/2008, -3/+131"___sucks. It's just a bunch of ___year old _____ nerds who take their ______ game way to seriously."
- ybotoby, on 03/13/2008, -13/+50Eve Online is to MMORPGS as Physics is to school
- MajorLeague, on 03/13/2008, -2/+93Something I skip?
- kaffein, on 03/13/2008, -4/+10Zing!
- NathaMan10101, on 03/18/2008, -0/+0Brava! Give ur self a cookie for that!
- merkk, on 03/13/2008, -9/+14something that's really fascinating and i enjoyed?
- Memitim, on 03/13/2008, -1/+11Nah, physics was hard, but it was also fun for more than 45 seconds at a time.
- Borgcube636, on 03/13/2008, -0/+7Make that Organic Chemistry
- below413, on 03/13/2008, -1/+2Wait for Pchem...
- gbro, on 03/13/2008, -0/+9orly? There were girls in my Physics class.
- lovestospooge, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2Amazingly easy?
- Ecanem, on 03/14/2008, -0/+1Something that the teacher long lost hope of ever understanding and just reads out of the text book what he think it should be?
Not sure how thats relatable to physics but good analogy!
- MajorLeague, on 03/13/2008, -2/+93Something I skip?
- adrian783, on 03/13/2008, -13/+274the chart says that you can get good at eve incredibly fast.
- nroth, on 03/13/2008, -2/+31Exactly, maybe I'm wrong, but I was pretty sure I could read a graph. And this graph shows, that in less time, your gaming skill in EVE will get higher than the others.
- drakenlot, on 03/13/2008, -1/+8I think that's due to the mistitled y axis. I'm thinking something like 'Time Spent Learning' is more accurate.
- NathanielJ, on 03/13/2008, -1/+5So it should be a graph of Time Spent Playing versus Time Spent Learning? How does that make any sense?
- willster580, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3It should be chance to commit suicide.
- Netrilix, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3I'm thinking it should be Gaming Skill Required. Personally, I thought the "Required" was implied, but it seems a lot of people read it differently.
- okaroleo, on 03/13/2008, -1/+5These graphs represent games expectation of how fast you can progress/learn, not how fast you actually will progress/learn. Eve has extremely steep learning curve because of sheer number of routes you can take to progress. It suffers from ... option overload. For beginners too many options are just as bad as not having enough of them and they just do not know where to go after the introduction training.
I've been playing for almost 4.5 years and i am yet to touch on every aspect of the game. Key to eve is cooperation. Its incredibly hard to progress without help of others thats why most successful players are part of well organized corporations.
I"m going to print this pic cause its soooo damn true. hehehehe- sandbags, on 03/13/2008, -3/+1lol. U have been playing for 4.5 years. Yep, definatly an eve player....
- Locke2053, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2It says that you MUST get good at Eve incredibly fast or else you do not continue playing the game.
- drakenlot, on 03/13/2008, -1/+8I think that's due to the mistitled y axis. I'm thinking something like 'Time Spent Learning' is more accurate.
- vibrokatana, on 03/13/2008, -1/+98That is, if you don't hang yourself, get impaled, bulldozed, crucified or fall off the cliff.
- merper, on 03/13/2008, -6/+8Yeah, someone needs to learn how to label graphs properly. What is that, 3rd grade?
- GodofTheWired, on 03/13/2008, -7/+5Yeah, but it shows that the longer that you play EVE, the harder it gets. This happens incredibly fast, and there is a huge hurdle to get close to people who pwn. So you would only be able to play it for a short time before you quit because you suck.
- Jektal, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2Actually it plateaus quite quickly...
- Memitim, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2No, it just takes forever to get to the highest levels of competitiveness because high level skills take literal weeks to months to learn. No matter how much effort you put into the game, you cannot advance any faster than dictated by the real world clock, and the only way to maximize those gains is to log on right after a skill has finished learning so that you can start another one going. Better set that alarm for 2:00am so that you can jump up, log in, and select the next skill to put on the old learning timer. And remember, only one character at a time so if you want any alts to learn a skill you'll have to stop all progression on your main while the alt learns something useful.
- HiKevinRose, on 03/13/2008, -0/+38You're both correct, but I imagine that the denotation intended was "Gaming Skill Required," rather than just "Gaming Skill."
- Henko, on 03/13/2008, -1/+2If that was the case, then the X axis couldn't possibly be time. It'd have to be "progress". Which makes this whole graph wrong - and it is. I blame the saying "steep learning curve" which is BS. Being steep doesn't make it hard, like you're climbing a cliff. It makes the Y delta per X unit high, which means fast progress and not vice versa.
- eightfivezero, on 03/13/2008, -2/+16Actually it shows the amount of gaming skill needed to be able to survive in the game.
- beean45, on 03/13/2008, -2/+4No it doesn't since the x axis is usually the independent variable.
- carrtoonist, on 03/13/2008, -2/+0Still it could be measuring general gaming skill and not specifically your skill in any particular game. That way it shows that most mmorpgs are so easy then you really don't become a more skilled gamer playing them. The author did label it 'gaming skill' and not 'skill at the game'. That being said I don't think that time should be a variable in a 'learning curve' but whatever.
- beean45, on 03/13/2008, -2/+4No it doesn't since the x axis is usually the independent variable.
- Zera, on 03/13/2008, -13/+4LOL @ "Gaming Skill" used to describe a MMORPG... Hahahahahahahahahhahahahaahahahahhahahaah
- Pittance, on 03/13/2008, -1/+4Good organizational skills, planning, and quick action under stress are HIGHLY needed for MMOGs. Even with easy games like WoW, you need to know what to do if your MT gets 2-shotted and your MH is masterbating. Or in the early days of AC, you need to know the correct order of spells to vuln, heal, and eventually kill something with much much MUCH higher resistances than normally would be possible. Early virindi and umbris vs. crappy mage anyone?
- Zera, on 03/13/2008, -1/+3That's not skill. That's memorizing arbitrary game specific nonsense, which is (mostly) acquired through time spent playing the game, not the wit or intelligence of the player. MMO's reward players who play for hours and hours and hours, and how well they do in the game is directly proportionate to how long they've played (giving them more spells, better equipment, etc, etc, etc)
It's alot like the game Magic, which makes certain cards arbitrarily more expensive, and a player's ability is mostly affected by how many hundreds (thousands?) of dollars they've spent.
With that said, if there were versions of Magic, or MMO's where every player got to pick from every item and every ability and therefore the game would have a truly 'level' playing field, then you can start talking about SKILL being needed within the game.
- Zera, on 03/13/2008, -1/+3That's not skill. That's memorizing arbitrary game specific nonsense, which is (mostly) acquired through time spent playing the game, not the wit or intelligence of the player. MMO's reward players who play for hours and hours and hours, and how well they do in the game is directly proportionate to how long they've played (giving them more spells, better equipment, etc, etc, etc)
- Pittance, on 03/13/2008, -1/+4Good organizational skills, planning, and quick action under stress are HIGHLY needed for MMOGs. Even with easy games like WoW, you need to know what to do if your MT gets 2-shotted and your MH is masterbating. Or in the early days of AC, you need to know the correct order of spells to vuln, heal, and eventually kill something with much much MUCH higher resistances than normally would be possible. Early virindi and umbris vs. crappy mage anyone?
- insomniacal, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Thank you. That's exactly what I was seeing, too -- and thought I was crazy since everyone else thought it was funny without seeing the obvious mistake.
- AmICoolNow, on 03/14/2008, -0/+4Well, I think it's trying to say "gaming skill needed", not "gaming skill".
- nroth, on 03/13/2008, -2/+31Exactly, maybe I'm wrong, but I was pretty sure I could read a graph. And this graph shows, that in less time, your gaming skill in EVE will get higher than the others.
- mike17032, on 03/13/2008, -0/+29Having tried EVE, that looks about right to me.
Do POTBS (what is that one anyway) and LOTR really start out easier than WoW? How is that even possible?- MiDri, on 03/13/2008, -1/+10ptobs = pirates of the burning seas
And yes LOTR starts out a lot more cushy then WoW. - monkeychicken12, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2LotR has you open up in an instanced area, which then moves on to a starting town in which you get used to the questing, options and so forth. I don't know that it's necessarily "easier", but it's certainly more welcoming.
- MiDri, on 03/13/2008, -1/+10ptobs = pirates of the burning seas
- Chickenlip, on 03/13/2008, -1/+85Even having played Eve for about a year, the game still confuses the ***** out of me.
- janeuner, on 03/13/2008, -1/+12Click, lock, approach, F1-F7, click, loot, warp.
Win?- Hortnon, on 03/13/2008, -0/+7You forgot outfitting with resistance plating (depending solely on who you're fighting), setting up a training path that doesn't waste time, setting up and using repairers, knowing whether to get shield/hull/armor repairers based on the race you play, and so much more. :P
- AussieFox, on 03/13/2008, -0/+6Hull tanking is the HONOURABLE tankers choice
- TheHolyLancer, on 03/14/2008, -0/+2who needs tanks when you can use long range arties or missiles and AB or something (that is as far as i got) to out run? if they can't touch you, and you can touch them with some explosives, you win.
- Hortnon, on 03/13/2008, -0/+7You forgot outfitting with resistance plating (depending solely on who you're fighting), setting up a training path that doesn't waste time, setting up and using repairers, knowing whether to get shield/hull/armor repairers based on the race you play, and so much more. :P
- simonvc, on 03/13/2008, -0/+14Having played it for almost 4 years i can tell you it doesnt get any easier :-)
Still the best MMO ever.
- janeuner, on 03/13/2008, -1/+12Click, lock, approach, F1-F7, click, loot, warp.
- Daiken, on 03/13/2008, -2/+13I've never played Eve, so does anyone mind explaining? I can't tell if all the dead stickmen indicate that it's brutally hard to learn, or if the high cliff means in a short time you'll have God-like gaming skills, and will be able to crush your enemies easily (the stickmen?).
- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -3/+19Basically, its all about learning the hundreds of menus and actually building up enough money so that you dont have to go back and mine or farm npc's evertime you ship gets blown up. Oh, and you can never ever catch up to older players because skills take real life time to learn.
- visceroth, on 03/13/2008, -0/+7Not true. You will catch up to them...when they have learned every skill and so have you.
EVE training is time based. I'm only 5 months old and I'm already into the parts where it is taking me 25 days FOR ONE SKILL!!! that's not even the worst of it. it's annoying but at least when I get on to play, I play not farm or grind.- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -0/+4It takes something like 1.5-2 years (REAL LIFE TIME) to max out combat skills.
- Aeaus, on 03/14/2008, -0/+2Understatement of the Decade.
- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -0/+4It takes something like 1.5-2 years (REAL LIFE TIME) to max out combat skills.
- Nichael, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2Actually, it's more or less impossible to max out "combat" skills. It'd take a decade or so to do so.
- ShrimpCrackers, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2You're wrong. Since skill sets max out at level 5, there is a limit. So sure someone older than you may have say Battleship 5 but if you're a month old character flying a tackler or webifier, you can stop his ship in time for the rest of your corp mates to drop in and take him out.
- visceroth, on 03/13/2008, -0/+7Not true. You will catch up to them...when they have learned every skill and so have you.
- dorrin26, on 03/13/2008, -6/+1See above comment under TobiasParker
- TheG2, on 03/13/2008, -1/+12EVE is difficult mostly due to it's size. After a few tutorials, you're 100% on your own, theres no NPC's telling you to do a Mission or Mine or go and do anything really. You have to figure out how to succeed on your own, pick a profession, start training the skills, and try not to die.
And yes, the interface is complex and difficult at first, but given time you can figure it out. - mike17032, on 03/13/2008, -1/+12It means that you WILL kill yourself by hanging if you try to play.
Make sure your affairs are in order before downloading. - antarctica7, on 03/14/2008, -0/+1Brutal, complex, you are either predator or prey and quite often both at the same time. You will love it, it will draw you in like the Mistress Eve-O does to it's fan base. You don't own in Eve-O, Eve-Owns you.
Enjoy,
- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -3/+19Basically, its all about learning the hundreds of menus and actually building up enough money so that you dont have to go back and mine or farm npc's evertime you ship gets blown up. Oh, and you can never ever catch up to older players because skills take real life time to learn.
- aaabbbsss, on 03/13/2008, -26/+1This is dumb as *****. It is however hilarious that my 'captcha' contains the sequence of letters: "HIV"
- Xondar, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2That's pretty retro.
- drakenlot, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1You get CAPTCHAs? I haven't seen one here in the longest time...
- vincekiessling, on 03/13/2008, -0/+5Are you HIV positive that it says that?
- AdmiralKarelia, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1I haven't gotten a captcha on Digg... well... since I joined Digg.
- Volred, on 03/13/2008, -0/+22Here is a similar cartoon from the same guy:
http://eve.klaki.net/PokeBattle.jpg- Lobstertacular, on 03/13/2008, -0/+13I'll just trust that that's funny to an Eve player and Digg you up
- KingGorilla, on 03/13/2008, -0/+7you were right
- novask, on 03/13/2008, -2/+1Thats actually funny to a WoW player considering I played both a warrior and a warlock for a long time. Reminds me of this time when I spent 4 months trying to get the ZHC trinket from Zul'gurub only to have it nerfed 2 weeks after I finally got it.
- Lobstertacular, on 03/13/2008, -0/+13I'll just trust that that's funny to an Eve player and Digg you up
- DerTeufel, on 03/13/2008, -0/+80I played EVE for about a month. I'd just gotten to the point where I think I understood the game and realized I was staring into an abyss. My life was about to cease being my own so I quit.
- BlazinEurasian, on 03/13/2008, -0/+10After I spent 30 hours playing in the 2 week period I got my cruiser, then decided I had to stop. I never even flew the damn thing.
- simonvc, on 03/13/2008, -0/+18Can i have your stuff?
- DaLukeMan, on 03/14/2008, -0/+2" Free?"
- highwayman14, on 03/13/2008, -1/+4Yeah, I played for about a month, too, and realized I had seen pretty much everything interesting. It might be good for someone doing a paper on economics, but otherwise...nah. Should be called "Capitalism Online". Needs more variety in missions and broader range of graphics other than pretty (odd-shaped) spaceships flying around.
- Jibberwalk, on 03/14/2008, -0/+1The first MMO that is all on one server, let's you control a single person on the ground of a planet, lets you eventually buy a space ship, go into space and travel anywhere and get into fights with other ships... all while still maintaining the ability to land on any planet and walk around... and get into fights with other people. But fights with other people can involve tanks and weapons of the sort if you can afford them. Guilds with the ability to conquer planets and expand space territory.
That'd be my orgasm MMO... and I used to think that's what EVE was when I first heard of it. That I Googled it and was severly dissapointed.- saejinn, on 03/15/2008, -0/+1Hopefully the Star Trek MMORPG will be something like you described (if it ever happens).
- Jibberwalk, on 03/14/2008, -0/+1The first MMO that is all on one server, let's you control a single person on the ground of a planet, lets you eventually buy a space ship, go into space and travel anywhere and get into fights with other ships... all while still maintaining the ability to land on any planet and walk around... and get into fights with other people. But fights with other people can involve tanks and weapons of the sort if you can afford them. Guilds with the ability to conquer planets and expand space territory.
- jjcyber, on 03/13/2008, -2/+14I'd actually like to try EVE one of these days.
- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -0/+19Not with that casual attitude, head into ready to devote your life or give up now.
- jjcyber, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Lol, ok then. I do wanna get into MMORPG's but WOW and LOTR dont really interest me. Wow cause of the quirky graphics, and LOTR cause it's been done to death imho.
- mike17032, on 03/13/2008, -3/+5Do yourself a favor and try WoW. The Art in the game is actually pretty awsome. There are so many MMOs that might look "better", but have so little variation to each area that you loose out in the end.
Its hard to explain unless you see it, but so many MMOs have areas that just look almost the same for the whole section. You wouldnt be able to tell where you were without looking at the map.
WoW on the other hand has such variation to it that you can easily tell where you are at after you learn an area.
On top of that, its by far the most casual friendly MMO ever, and you clearly fall into that classification. I dont think you would be happy with any of the more hardcore MMOs.- TheG2, on 03/13/2008, -2/+7Mike, do yourself a favor and quit WoW.
- Jektal, on 03/13/2008, -3/+5By far the most casual friendly?!
Yeah, nothing says "casual" like $15/month and a reputation for being compared to crack.
A truly casual game I'd say is Guild Wars, although it hasn't ever gotten much love and might not be all that great. But there's no subscription fee, your account/characters never* expire, and you can teleport instantly from almost anywhere to almost anywhere.
*well, mine didn't expire after not logging in for over a year, at least - bagelmaster, on 03/13/2008, -1/+2While WoW is the best MMO out right now (IMO) it can and probably will suck your soul out through your ass. After you reach the max level (70) and are actually good enough to join a decent guild, kiss goodbye to all of your free time and that thing you call "sleep."
- TheG2, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3For the record, being the most popular doesn't make it the best.
- jjcyber, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1I would not say that. I do enjoy deep games where there is a lot to do/learn/experience. And the commitment that everyone here seems to think necessary for an MMO is not a problem.
- mnmleon, on 03/13/2008, -2/+2WOW is crap.... wait for darkfallonline
- innocentsinner, on 03/13/2008, -1/+1City of Heroes is a good distraction. I played WoW for 3 years but finally quit and am going back to CoH. I doubt I'll play for long, but the character creation alone is fun as hell.
- Andrwmorph, on 03/18/2008, -0/+0Too bad CoH is just 50 levels of monotonous grinding. You get a sweet looking character though.
- mike17032, on 03/13/2008, -3/+5Do yourself a favor and try WoW. The Art in the game is actually pretty awsome. There are so many MMOs that might look "better", but have so little variation to each area that you loose out in the end.
- KingGorilla, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Do or do not there is no try
- jjcyber, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Lol, ok then. I do wanna get into MMORPG's but WOW and LOTR dont really interest me. Wow cause of the quirky graphics, and LOTR cause it's been done to death imho.
- mike17032, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Do yourself a favor and get the ***** noose ready ahead of time.
- h4rdcor3, on 03/13/2008, -0/+521 day trial through steam. that will give you enough time to get through 1/4 of the learning curve
- IncogMosqui, on 03/13/2008, -0/+4Give it a shot. Eve doesn't require a CC# for their two week trial - very convenient. Just... don't tell anybody you're on the trial.
- NinjaBoy, on 03/13/2008, -0/+6Free trial https://secure.eve-online.com/trial/
- KingGorilla, on 03/13/2008, -1/+3pusher
- janeuner, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Don't play Caldari. If you do, prepare for a lifetime of mockery and ridicule.
- KingGorilla, on 03/13/2008, -0/+6I take it you ignored the stickmen crucifixes
- b-dizzle, on 03/14/2008, -0/+1I don't think EVE is a ton more hardcore than WoW, it's just hardcore in different ways- in EVE you can't powerlevel. EVE is harder and requires more thinking, strategy and research, but it's not as much of a grind, unless you just mine and mission, and never do PvP. That can get boring.
and if you do play MINMATAR FTW - zeigual, on 03/14/2008, -0/+1I loved EVE so much when I tried it. The interface is leaps and bounds beyond any other game. The game just felt really one sided once i learned everything. All spaceships and empty space with no characters. Id love it if they made an addon where you can walk through space stations as your character and trade with others and chat(like WoW meets Deep Space 9). Then it would be the absolute best.
- atlif, on 03/14/2008, -0/+0Ahem...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abMEVENz1jQ
- atlif, on 03/14/2008, -0/+0Ahem...
- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -0/+19Not with that casual attitude, head into ready to devote your life or give up now.
- kargod, on 03/13/2008, -20/+6Runescape FTW!!!
- stfucupcake, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Not quite. Jagex sucks. My lvl 89 mage got banned for no apparent reason.
- gommle, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3You just admitted that you have played Runescape.
- stfucupcake, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Not quite. Jagex sucks. My lvl 89 mage got banned for no apparent reason.
- sctx, on 03/13/2008, -7/+27EVE requires way to much "think" and not enough "smash skull."
- HoratioHellpop, on 03/13/2008, -3/+0especially "HULK smash skull"
- Volred, on 03/13/2008, -2/+60******************************
I've never played Eve, so does anyone mind explaining? I can't tell if all the dead stickmen indicate that it's brutally hard to learn, or if the high cliff means in a short time you'll have God-like gaming skills, and will be able to crush your enemies easily (the stickmen?).
******************************
It is incredibly hard to learn. And if you stray out into lowsec, or 0.0. You'll lose your ship right quick.
EVE is harsh, EVE is ruthless, EVE will eat your babies.
My favorite quote that sums up the game: "Adapt or die"- drakenlot, on 03/13/2008, -3/+8Try to use the reply button...
- NathaMan10101, on 03/18/2008, -0/+0Zing!
- surKaz, on 03/13/2008, -2/+5Dugg for quote.. That is how games should be (even if I might get killed in them)... Difficult, but not impossible... and worthwhile too..
- Pinhedd, on 03/13/2008, -0/+8EVE has two rules:
1. Dont hack
2. Dont buy isk
Everything else goes.- janeuner, on 03/13/2008, -1/+83. Don't talk about the devs or moderation.
4. Don't complain about bugs or lag. - Hortnon, on 03/13/2008, -1/+2That's not true. My friend got his money and items taken away by the devs for racketeering. I saw the emails...there wasn't anything else.
Yeah, he was being an ass and that's why he had 2 billion within 2 weeks of starting. But that's not the point...he should've been allowed to keep it. - esteskid, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2That's why the largest actual money sum in MMORPG $$ was 'stolen' in EvE, because it was legal in the game...i think
- daizaru, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2Tons of people buy isk in that game, just by less conventional methods. People sell gametime cards for ISK so you go and buy gametime cards if you want to buy isk. It's even built into the game mechanics.
- NathaMan10101, on 03/18/2008, -0/+0Ya don't hack,cheat ^.^
- janeuner, on 03/13/2008, -1/+83. Don't talk about the devs or moderation.
- MosaicM, on 03/13/2008, -0/+6And that's exactly why I don't play it. I prefer a game that is easy to play and fun apart from a second job. Hell, EVE is harder than my job!
- CCmachined, on 03/15/2008, -0/+1hmm... like Contra?
just bought Contra 4 for my DS, kicks ass xD
- drakenlot, on 03/13/2008, -3/+8Try to use the reply button...
- ApokalypseNow, on 03/13/2008, -1/+29This is why I stopped playing MMO's myself and downloaded Progess Quest.
- ChuckDiesel, on 03/13/2008, -1/+7Dugg for Progress Quest
- sinoth, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3My Low Elf Runeloremaster agrees. I'm pretty excited... he's about to hit 60!
- Syric, on 03/13/2008, -2/+10So, according to this graph, it's really really really easy, until you stop getting better at a certain point, when everyone's skills are equal?
- pahool, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Exactly, but you have briefly travel backwards through time to get to that point.
- NinjaBoy, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Yes basically, though it take about 6months in RL to get to that point. Then its about teaming up and surprise attacks.
- synyster, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2i think it will take more than 6 months, more like 2 year and with friend's help
- Epskampie, on 03/13/2008, -12/+6The person who made this either never finished high-school or is a complete moron. If you interpret the graph, it means that while playing eve, you've got an enourmous amount of 'gaming skill' after playing for a short while. It' actually the easiest of the bunch according to this graph.
- GrmRpr3000, on 03/13/2008, -3/+5The person who made this is Istvaan Shogatsu, a rather well known EVE figure for his year long planning of a big heist where he and his corp, the Guiding Hand Social Club stole a lot of crap and killed some people (it's better than I make it sound >.>). He's no idiot, but that doesn't mean he knows how to make a graph properly while buggering around at work XD
- Jektal, on 03/13/2008, -1/+1Hi Istvaan!
- GrmRpr3000, on 03/13/2008, -3/+5The person who made this is Istvaan Shogatsu, a rather well known EVE figure for his year long planning of a big heist where he and his corp, the Guiding Hand Social Club stole a lot of crap and killed some people (it's better than I make it sound >.>). He's no idiot, but that doesn't mean he knows how to make a graph properly while buggering around at work XD
- i4ybrid, on 03/13/2008, -2/+4Can anyone elaborate on why it's so hard? I've never played it before, but this graph has peaked my interest.
- Danjak, on 03/13/2008, -4/+15Because it's like playing a spreadsheet. If you find Excel to be fun, then you'll LOVE Eve!
- Memitim, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1Not true. I love spewing VBA all over Excel, but Eve has a difficult time holding my interest.
- TheG2, on 03/13/2008, -0/+4Read some of my earlier comments up top, definitely give it a try.
- i4ybrid, on 03/13/2008, -1/+1You didn't elaborate earlier up, and you didn't elaborate here either..
But thank you Danjak for letting me know it's basically a strategy game involving numbers.
- i4ybrid, on 03/13/2008, -1/+1You didn't elaborate earlier up, and you didn't elaborate here either..
- maninthespoon, on 03/13/2008, -0/+514 day free trial here https://secure.eve-online.com/ft/?aid=103486&bid=& ... if you join us you will never leave.
- mike17032, on 03/13/2008, -6/+2Until you hang yourself in a week. Go with WoW, really.
I will say this for EVE, when I tried it I had no problem finding helpful people to get me started.
- mike17032, on 03/13/2008, -6/+2Until you hang yourself in a week. Go with WoW, really.
- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1Eve is all about time and money management. Actual gameplay is very slow, and it takes a while to build your skills and gather personal resources.
- Nesh, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3I didn't realize there were so many EVE players here.
Now is a good time to try though. With Yesterday's patch, I've heard they've greatly improved the "Newbie Experience."- simonvc, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1Lol, they actually fracked up the rookie missions, so now its even harder to get into the game. 99% of the community responded with "Meh" and went back to ganking rookies on sight.
- Vorsuc, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1It isn't 'hard' ... you don't require a super IQ or anything, it is just that for the majority of short attention span game players who click through menus without reading, they are left without a clue as what to do. Eve does require a level of thought, awareness and common sense which actually improves the game by encouraging a more mature audience base.
- NathanielJ, on 03/13/2008, -0/+8Not trying to be a grammar nazi or anything, but the expression is "piqued my interest," just so you know.
- xerigen, on 03/13/2008, -2/+3Actually, the graph has piqued your interest.
- ianandris, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1Eve is a multilayered, complex sandbox. Unlike traditional MMORPGs where you complete missions for XP in a never ending quest for better items and more gold, EVE provides missions simply as a way to get your hands on isk. The real thrust of the game exists in its player run and operated organizations called corporations and alliances. The EVE universe is split into 3 parts: High sec, Low sec, and Null sec. High sec is a haven for industrial types and miners (carebears as they're commonly referred to in game), Low sec is the realm of pirate wolf packs and small, heavily focused, tightly organized gangs who pvp for profit. Mission runners and other pirate corps are prey. Null sec is player owned and operated space. Entire systems and constellations are owned by alliances of player corporations. Massive battles/campaigns/wars are waged for control of those areas. Null sec is where you'll find the largest ships in game employed for conquest of virtual areas which are a static part of a single universe.
Each player has to make his own way, and simply training up in game skills does not an uber player make. There are no classes. There are activities that you involve yourself in, and you have to be able to think tactically, strategically, and diplomatically to succeed regardless of your preferred play style. Real life skills > in game skills with Eve, thus Eve is hard.
- Danjak, on 03/13/2008, -4/+15Because it's like playing a spreadsheet. If you find Excel to be fun, then you'll LOVE Eve!
- logicalriot, on 03/13/2008, -3/+5been playing eve for 3 years and it still isn't the easiest game when it comes to pvp.
- Danjak, on 03/13/2008, -5/+6Yaaa!! POTBS is being considered a popular MMORPG. :-)
Frankly, it's the best of the bunch... but it's not "popular." It's a niche game - but one I think everyone should try. IMO, it's one of, if not THE, best MMORPGs on the market right now.- Orsenfelt, on 03/13/2008, -1/+2Has it improved a lot from Beta?
I played the beta until release and quite frankly, Hated it. It was like WoW with Pirates and Lag.. - sherkaner, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Yeah, I played the beta a bit too and was a bit disappointed with how, I dunno, shallow it felt somehow.
- BobOki, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2No... it has not.
The game is different, they implemented ship fighting in a easy to use way... all-in-all it is a very different ship fighting (screw the sword fighting, its horrible) BORING game.
When there is NOT 500 guys blockading MOST the cities, you are stuck doing boring and repetative tasks that make WoWs quests exciting. This game just does NOT have enough umph in it to keep a person interested.
- Orsenfelt, on 03/13/2008, -1/+2Has it improved a lot from Beta?
- greenm1981, on 03/13/2008, -3/+2Euclid FTW!
- Xondar, on 03/13/2008, -1/+6Interestingly enough, EVE has the longest tutorial in any game I've ever played, including single player games.
It is kinda fun though.- SeriousMite, on 03/13/2008, -1/+4I've tried the free trial for EVE twice now. Both times I haven't been able to get myself to finish the tutorial. I've played entire single player games that don't last as long as that tutorial.
- breezytrees, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2they just shortened it... again!
- NathaMan10101, on 03/18/2008, -0/+0EVE is like a MMO Unvreslia COmbat(OLD GAME!) but harder.lol
- SeriousMite, on 03/13/2008, -1/+4I've tried the free trial for EVE twice now. Both times I haven't been able to get myself to finish the tutorial. I've played entire single player games that don't last as long as that tutorial.
- anonatron, on 03/13/2008, -1/+24Yeah, I tried Eve, it was good, but I had to stop playing because I didn't want to have to quit my job.
- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -0/+21I actually ran courier missions while at work for a while...
- eightfivezero, on 03/13/2008, -1/+3Dugg for truth.
- GrmRpr3000, on 03/13/2008, -3/+26As an EVE player let me say that there are two ways to read this graph (I don't know if the guy who made it has any idea how graphs work or not. I don't).
1) Playing EVE quickly makes you think and react in ways that otherwise you wouldn't playing MMOs. This means that when playing other MMOs you can find yourself to be a better player than many others. This can be true.
2) EVE is absolutely brutal, and incredibly difficult to learn. This is true. Most people don't have the patience for it, and some just don't like the concept anyway. Those who do have the patience and like the concept tend to stick around for a while and have a great time.- MindTrigger, on 03/13/2008, -1/+4GrmRpr3000,
Maybe you can help some of us out here. I've been told by many an EVE player, to not even bother joining the game at this point because it's so far a long that most of the players are all uber now, and you end up trying to play in an OwnFest, where you are the *****, and everyone else is the broom handle. Is it even possible to start in this game as a noob now?- GrmRpr3000, on 03/13/2008, -0/+14Well, to be honest, it's a difficult question to answer. It is entirely possible for a new player to start in EVE and ultimately become successful. The problem is that a lot of the new arrivals come from games like WoW (WoW didn't exist when EVE was released, so the older players never had this problem) and expect things to be the same. But they aren't. They then spread rumours and bad comments about it based on the fact that it didn't fit into their perception of what an MMO should be like.
The most common problem is skillpoints. Because EVE isn't based on levels, but a real time training system, it is a fact that it's impossible for a new player to catch up in total skillpoints compared to an active older player. The issue here is again the assumption that EVE works the same as other MMOs, and that more is better. However, skillpoints merely allow you to use things, or use them more efficiently. The real skill comes down to how you use those things and on what ship and in what situation. Friends also help a great deal. Unlike WoW, where a level 1 cannot kill a level 70, and 3 day old player can definitely kill a 5 year old player. At least, as long as the 5 year old player isn't set up for PvP.
The key ultimately is to specialise your skills in a certain area. There are only so many skills in each area to train, and eventually veterans stop having better skills than you, and just end up being able to do more stuff instead. It takes a while, but EVE is a long term game anyway. I've been playing for 4 years, but if my character was suddenly deleted, I'd be perfectly fine creating a brand new one and starting from scratch (well, after a brief week of screaming anyway ¬_¬).
Anybody trying EVE for the first time now is well advised to get themselves into a nice corporation (guilds in other games) and just have a go. I can advise EVE University who specialise in training new players, and when you have a bit more ingame money (not too hard to get for this) you can have a look at the Agony Unleashed PvP training courses who will show you just what a new player can do.
And yes, those are both player run initiatives.- b-dizzle, on 03/14/2008, -0/+3Thanks for the recco, I was looking for somewhere to learn PvP
- GrmRpr3000, on 03/13/2008, -0/+14Well, to be honest, it's a difficult question to answer. It is entirely possible for a new player to start in EVE and ultimately become successful. The problem is that a lot of the new arrivals come from games like WoW (WoW didn't exist when EVE was released, so the older players never had this problem) and expect things to be the same. But they aren't. They then spread rumours and bad comments about it based on the fact that it didn't fit into their perception of what an MMO should be like.
- chroko, on 03/13/2008, -2/+3As someone who tried to get into Eve last year, I would argue that it's not worth it.
The low level game is effectively single player if you're trying to play solo. You'll be doing missions and cargo runs for NPCs. It is incredibly boring as you sit and stare at the autopilot driving you to your destination... punctuated with moments of sheer terror as you accidentally enter an unsafe system and another player locks on and kills you with a single shot.
I thought about joining an existing corporation. It sounds too much like *actual work* to me: being a low-level employee and taking orders from questionable authority.
Although if you can convince a friend to join and play with you - you might have fun.- sodoh, on 03/14/2008, -0/+1Corps vary wildly. Ones I was were in if you were under a certain skill point level you were considered a noob with no real rank and generally treated as fog. However you were given access to more then enough newbie stuff to not have to worry about loosing a ship. Once you got to a certain skill point you were expected to help the other noobs and feedback some to the corp.
War based corps are a bit more regimental and expect you to show up for attacks, get resources, etc.
- sodoh, on 03/14/2008, -0/+1Corps vary wildly. Ones I was were in if you were under a certain skill point level you were considered a noob with no real rank and generally treated as fog. However you were given access to more then enough newbie stuff to not have to worry about loosing a ship. Once you got to a certain skill point you were expected to help the other noobs and feedback some to the corp.
- sodoh, on 03/13/2008, -0/+6It goes beyond hard to learn. Generally you can't jump the queue with the learning. For example a brothers friend being smart bought a good character with a battleship (well kitted) for over 100 euros. Thinking he was now uber park his ship in our system (I was in a clan of noobs and 2 long running experts).
We all initially wet ourselves and hid in the station. The leader of the clan said don't panic he would be there in 20 minutes. Told us what to kit the lowest ships out with (just above newbie) and how to hit him. We couldn't kill him but we effectively held him in position totally drained for over 20 minutes without loss of life and he died in under 30. He wasn't a happy camper. - sparkie_adams, on 03/14/2008, -0/+1Well, speaking as a Eve noob, i gadda say that i love it.
The game is basically just a huge sandbox. You start out as a small fish in a big ocean. Its feels like a real (although simple) world. But when it comes down to it, the real skill tree has nothing to do with skill points. Its about survival. The game is really brutal, you step foot in the wrong system at the wrong time, bam, your dead. Moving 100 mill isk through the wrong sytem, bam, the moneys gone.
But if you find a good corporation, they will usually help you learn the ropes. Really this game is about the other players. While eve does have PvE, its sorta sucks, missions (quest) involve going from point a to b and kill some stupid npc. This game is really about PvP. By PvP i dont really mean combat (thought that is a huge part), i also mean your interactions with other players. The economy is completely player driven, almost all items are player created (or at least found). Corporations can conquer territories, and must defend the ones they have. They build new space stations, motherships, freaking deathstars. They declare war on other corporations and alliances.
Its a great game, but you will either love it or hate it.
- MindTrigger, on 03/13/2008, -1/+4GrmRpr3000,
- hamGrenade, on 03/13/2008, -4/+4zee dispenser goes here!
- mmmmmmmchips, on 03/13/2008, -2/+1Needa dispensa heea!
- drakenlot, on 03/13/2008, -2/+34Man, that graph looks like it was done in Line Rider.
- LordReichel, on 03/13/2008, -14/+2The way I see it, since WoW increases your skill in a linear fashion, I could play WoW a very long time and I would have huge gaming skills. Instead i think WoW and Lotro should be an exponential decay. I played EVE (***** MMO ever) and I think what he is trying to say is: You play EVE, 10 minutes into it you have mastered it, then your gaming skill ceases to increase.
- morel42, on 03/13/2008, -0/+410 minutes to master it?
That comment is as correct as saying Bush is in Mensa..- Proel, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1He's not saying that it takes 10 minutes to master it, he's saying that that's what the GRAPH says.
And he's absolutely right.
- Proel, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1He's not saying that it takes 10 minutes to master it, he's saying that that's what the GRAPH says.
- Harabeck, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Eve isnt so much about skill as it is about time and money management. The outcome of actual combat (1v1 anyway) was determined long before the fight began.
- drakenlot, on 03/13/2008, -0/+6You've mastered EVE in 10 mins? I call shenanigans on you.
I've been playing for lose to a year, and I haven't scratched the surface. - IncogMosqui, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Two years here, yet every time I play it I find out I'm still a rookie.
Sounds like somebody doesn't like the concept of death actually meaning something. Carebear. - LordReichel, on 03/13/2008, -5/+1YOU GUYS ARE UBER SENSITIVE EVE NERDS! If you had the patience to finish reading my sentence you would understand i was trying to interpret the picture. I played for far longer than 10 mins and probably kicked your ass a few times.
P.S. thanks for the bury!! - EatChex89, on 03/14/2008, -0/+0dug because the interpretation of the graph is true.
- morel42, on 03/13/2008, -0/+410 minutes to master it?
- GodofTheWired, on 03/13/2008, -7/+1Yeah, but it shows that the longer that you play EVE, the harder it gets. This happens incredibly fast, and there is a huge hurdle to get close to people who pwn. So you would only be able to play it for a short time before you quit because you suck.
- Vegiemaster, on 03/13/2008, -3/+27This chart couldn't even handle FFXI.
- Klisk, on 03/13/2008, -2/+13FFXI is leaps and bounds more difficult than EVE.
- Ellipsys, on 03/13/2008, -1/+28FFXI would be represented by Kanji drawn onto the graph. Not something simple like "mountain" but something complicated like... "Octopus rape woodblock print"
- eaterofpies, on 03/13/2008, -1/+9no, it would say "JP onry!"
- daborg, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3"Octopus rape woodblock print"
Now I want to learn Kanji. - scyform, on 03/13/2008, -1/+5タコ強姦浮世絵
delivered, although octopus (tako タコ) isn't as complex as you prolly thought- Virtualtaco, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1Why is tako in katakana? Is it from chinese?
- jzuska, on 03/13/2008, -0/+6An FFXI graph would start out harder than wow, but be a straight line as you kill yourself 3 months into playing because you're still level 10 and cant find a group..... nowadays anyway
- EgaoNoGenki, on 03/13/2008, -2/+1Yeah, if FFXI represented a foot in height, EVE would be like a centimeter, wouldn't it?
- frsrblch, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Damn, they aren't even on tjhe same UNIT SYSTEM!
- SuppaK, on 03/13/2008, -2/+4Lol, I love FFXI, 75 SAM ftw!
But seriously, why is it not here, that games ridonkulously hard, im trying to get my friend into it. - suriyou, on 03/13/2008, -2/+8FFXI is ***** amazing.
- CIAVT, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2The only thing that bums me out about XI is the graphics engine is really starting to show it's age. Still the most difficult MMO I've ever played.
75 RDM, 75 WHM, 75 BLM
AV will be beaten, one day.... - Frustian, on 03/13/2008, -2/+2FFXI is considered hard? It was the one and only MMO I ever got into (I've played others, but never more than a month). Sure, It's hard when you first start, but then it just becomes grinding the exact same things over and over again. The only time I remember it being 'hard' after getting to a decent level is when I was helping to get AF gear for somebody in my guild, and we somehow walked into some bosses with insane range and damage, and he died. The rest of us had to stand around for 2 hours since he was the only WHM, and refused to get raised by a RDM because he would lose too much XP.
- protogenxl, on 03/13/2008, -2/+3FFXI has Gas Cloud Harvesting ?
- merper, on 03/14/2008, -0/+1FFXI is hard? The only annoying part was finding parties to level, which could be a bitch, yes, but was very doable if you started your own parties. There are already Japanese players and North Americans with uber chars around, sure, but there's no PvP on the regular maps so they can't have any effect on you. In fact, if you don't act completely retarded they'll often help you out with quests or invite you into their static leveling parties and shoot you all the way to the top.
- robotfuel, on 03/14/2008, -0/+275 war, 69whm, 51bst - associated SJ's leveled to 37. FFXI is great - its just incredibly time consuming. Dont play anymore but I loved it when I did. Met some people ingame that I've become RL friends with.
- Gerbil_Juice, on 03/15/2008, -0/+1...what?
FFXI was my very first online game and I don't think it was that hard at all. I got to 75 before I was old enough to drive. I seriously think WoW's endgame is more challenging to become truly skilled at.
- lordgaino, on 03/13/2008, -1/+5"Yeah, I tried Eve, it was good, but I had to stop playing because I didn't want to have to quit my job."
Absolutely right. I loved playing the trial of EVE online for a few weeks, until i realised that i had not spoken to the rest of my family for three days straight. - Darkhavans, on 03/13/2008, -2/+24I guess no one here has played FFXI... I've never played EVE, but FFXI is also a very hard game to learn. You're basically dropped out in the middle of the starting nation you picked, with only a few hints to guide you. There are no tutorials, nothing to tell you what to do, no starting quests. I could go on and on about how difficult the game can be (more strategy than any MMO I've ever played is also involved), but you should try it for yourself.
- AtomicNewt, on 03/13/2008, -0/+4Well, I play both EVE and FFXI. The games are similar enough that they both entertain me, however their differences are HUGE enough that once I get burnt out on one, I play the other. They are both for people who are not all about instant gratification like FPS players. However, PVP is an always constant element in EVE, something in FFIX you have to go to and sign up for.
- Cryoniq, on 03/13/2008, -3/+2Seriously.. FFXI is nowhere near the learning curve of EVE..
- robotfuel, on 03/14/2008, -0/+275 war, 69whm, 51bst - associated SJ's leveled to 37.
- NathaMan10101, on 03/18/2008, -1/+0FFXI.......Final Fansty 11????I must be a genius trhne cas i pwn at that......
- Bromius, on 03/13/2008, -3/+9It's a funny graph, but he has his axises wrong. The way it's drawn, your skill in EVE skyrockets in no time at all. The Y AXIS should be time spent, and the X axis should be skill.
- Cawzality, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Time is never on the Y axis...
- toastjam, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2it would need to be for this chart to make sense
- Bromius, on 03/13/2008, -1/+0Then the graph needs to be mirrored across a line indicated by y=x
- AdmiralKarelia, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1The only change required is that the Y-axis needs to be clarified as "Required Gaming Skill" instead of just "Gaming Skill".
- Cawzality, on 03/13/2008, -0/+3Time is never on the Y axis...
- heyiquit, on 03/13/2008, -0/+2I just started the game, the learning curve is unusually steep (refer to picture) but nothing I couldn't overcome with a few questions on Rookie Chat.
- IncogMosqui, on 03/13/2008, -0/+1If you really want to learn where this curve comes from, try to do t2 invention. You'll likely be forced to lowsec space, not to mention learning the process to begin with...
- TwoPynts, on 03/13/2008, -3/+6They need to switch the Time Spent Playing with the Gaming Skill to ma
