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Linux 3D graphics access on PS3 found

forums.ps2dev.org — A method has been found to reach Linux 3D Graphics on the PS3. A number of hackers have clubbed together to release a draft kernel module for this along with a relevant Xorg driver.

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  • BlazinEurasian, on 11/30/2007, -8/+42This should allow for some low spec PC games to be played on PS3. Maybe one day Doom 3 on the HDTV.
    • mooninite, on 11/30/2007, -10/+39Considering the 3D chip in the PS3 is equivalent to a nVidia 7800 desktop chip, it will play more than "low spec" PC games.
      • ehal256, on 11/30/2007, -8/+24doom3 requires at the minimum 384MB of ram, even in linux, it might not have the ram needed for it :D
        • dandonia, on 11/30/2007, -8/+4isnt there 512 in the ps3?
          • johnmalc, on 11/30/2007, -1/+3Warcraft HD ftw! Actually, I think Cedega is still broken in WOW.
            Anyway, even if you hate playstation, this is huge news. Props to the mad geniuses.
          • ericrous, on 11/30/2007, -5/+2No, the 360 has 512MB. The PS3 has 256MB.
          • BabyWookie, on 11/30/2007, -0/+5@ericrous:

            That's not exactly right. The 360 has 512 MB, which can be allocated to either the system or the GPU, as needed. It's called the Unified Memory Architecture. The PS3 has 256 MB of system memory and another 256 MB of dedicated video memory. The UMA does allow for more flexibility in development.
        • dafugg, on 11/30/2007, -13/+10No. That's a sony lie.
          It's got 256 mb system memory and 256mb video memory.
          • silverwolfe, on 11/30/2007, -3/+14Which can be shared and is 512MB total.
          • Pinhedd, on 11/30/2007, -0/+6yes it can be shared but addressing it would be a bitch
          • BabyWookie, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2@silverwolfe:

            The PS3 doesn't have the unified memory architecture that the 360 has. The system can not utilize the dedicated video RAM, though the GPU does have limited access to the system RAM.
      • spartan777, on 11/30/2007, -1/+4but i think the one in the ps3 is moddified in some ways. the question is whether the linux nvidia drivers will work fine with it or not.
        • JayD16, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2Not really, the linux community can always write new drivers. The question is whether its up to the right shader specs.
        • SteveMax, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3Considering that NVidia has never published any Linux PPC drivers, I'm sure they won't work. Only the nouveau ones could, as soon as they are mature enough.
    • Sniper, on 11/30/2007, -2/+14Playing Q3A on PS3 FTW
      • CarzorStelatis, on 11/30/2007, -1/+1Well Q3A is coming out for Xbox Live Arcade next year, and I don't see why iD having done that would not also release it for the PS3. So you'll soon be able to run Q3A on your PS3 /without/ installing Linux and hacking the graphics firmware.
        • kyrre, on 11/30/2007, -1/+8Yeah, but will you be able to install your favorite models, maps and mods? The PS3 Linux version will let you do that.
          • chedabob, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Microsoft gave developers the option to do that a few months back.
          • mythicflux, on 11/30/2007, -1/+0Yet they don't seem to want to give that option to Epic for UT3.
    • atmodiws, on 11/30/2007, -3/+29You forget that the PS3 isn't 32-bits x86 architecture... Which means that Doom 3 and any closed source games won't play, unless specifically made for PS3
      • t0ny, on 11/30/2007, -1/+5You can use qemu to run it. But it will be a LOT slower.
      • verkon, on 11/30/2007, -0/+16then screw doom3, get Quake 3 Arena instead, open source,yeah.
      • nailer, on 11/30/2007, -0/+8Doom 3, like Q3A and ID games before it, will be released as Open Source when ID releases its next major engine.
    • meed, on 11/30/2007, -3/+14I have already played doom3 on my HDTV when I connected my computer up to my it.
      • smergs, on 11/30/2007, -2/+10I played it on the original Xbox on my HDTV. (I know it's dumbed down from the PC version)
        BTW, who would really want to play DOOM 3 again? it wasn't that great.
    • EBFoxbat, on 11/30/2007, -0/+14I would expect that the ps3 would be rather good at tasks like transcoding video and other CPU intensive applications should one write software to do such specifically for the ps3 and it's Cell madness.
    • Pinionist, on 11/30/2007, -2/+1That would be sweet - the only thing I'm struggling to do on my pc now.
    • geoken, on 11/30/2007, -3/+3Does the PS3 have enough ram to run a decent game. I ran Ubuntu on a PS3 and was really let down by it's sluggish performance. I don't think gaming would be any more impressive.
      • bnolsen, on 11/30/2007, -2/+3The answer is maybe. The PS3 really needs to be treated as a special purpose embedded device. Unless firefox and other apps go on a very serious diet 256MB isn't nearly enough to replace a normal workstation. Games would have to *work around* the PS3s disadvantages.
    • Davers, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2Or you could just plug your PC into your HDTV...
  • triplehelix, on 11/30/2007, -6/+52this will open up a whole world of homebrew for the ps3.
    • mooninite, on 11/30/2007, -16/+8Ugh... "homebrew" is such a dirty word. Don't use it.

      Yes, every open source game can be compiled to run on the PPC architecture. Will it run commercial games? Nope. Doom 3 and UT are out of the question.
      • kinghajj, on 11/30/2007, -17/+3Hey hey, what about Wine? Doesn't wine have some form of dynamic recompilation?
        • martian67, on 11/30/2007, -4/+22WINE IS NOT AN EMULATOR
          • CrazyDave303, on 11/30/2007, -2/+6What's with the all caps, can you really expect people to have a remote clue. Heck if I tried to tell my mom the difference do you think she would get it. I could just see it right now.

            "Mom, wine is not an emulator. See WINE only lets some windows programs to run on Linux by mapping the win32s API calls to Linux and Xwindows equivalent calls and providing some of windows services. An emulator works by mimicking the target CPU and it's architecture to provide a virtual machine in which to run a copy of the target OS can run."

            You know what she's going to hear:

            "Mom, wine is not an emulator. See WINE only lets some windows programs to run on Linux bla bla bla bla bla Linux bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. bla bla bla bla bla bla bla CPU bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla can run."

            She my mom is smart she knows what a CPU is,,, it's that big box under the desk where the keyboard and monitor plug in to.
          • TheSnuffster, on 11/30/2007, -2/+7Dugg for everyone mums defineition of a CPU
        • kinghajj, on 11/30/2007, -10/+4Uhh, then how does Wine work on non-x86-compatible architectures? Last time I checked a PPC processor can't execute x86 code.
          • TheKrillr, on 11/30/2007, -0/+11Um, it doesn't. Not unless you're runinng it through usermode Qemu.
          • CrazyDave303, on 11/30/2007, -1/+1that combination sounds like the holly grail of computing!

            all we need to do then is port it over to the i4004 and emulate the PowerPC64.
        • netdroid9, on 11/30/2007, -1/+7It doesn't, at least, not as far as I can remember. Winelib, the library that can be linked into Windows applications to compile them for Linux without changing API calls, can be compiled for almost anything.
        • Microdot, on 11/30/2007, -1/+17who cares about games... you have a ps3 sitting there for gods sake. i want 3d acceleration so i can start streaming some of these hd movies i have sitting on my NAS.
          • charbo187, on 03/16/2008, -0/+1ppl just wanna know so that when they have friends come over and u show them your badass PS3 running linux and compiz fusion and they go "wow thats really cool, can u run games on it?" and you have to go "well not really" and they go "ohhh" :(
        • Pinhedd, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2all Wine does is let windows games run on Linux, they still have to have the same architecture.
          Linux can run on more platforms than x86, Windows inherently does not.
      • TheKrillr, on 11/30/2007, -3/+17I seriously want to know what part of your ass you pulled "dynamic recompilation" out of.
  • nemoder, on 11/30/2007, -8/+57Maybe they'll even be able to write a ps3 emulator! ...
    • JayD16, on 11/30/2007, -2/+13No recursion!
    • TheKrillr, on 11/30/2007, -7/+10Maybe they'll even be able to write a ps3 emulator! ...
    • nullx42, on 11/30/2007, -3/+8The ps2 emulator isnt even fully functional yet, hold your horses.
      • smergs, on 11/30/2007, -2/+5PS2 works fine on the original ps3 sku's. ;)
    • TheKrillr, on 11/30/2007, -10/+1I. Hate. Diggs. Comment. System.
      • magicaltrevor, on 11/30/2007, -1/+14Yeah. It. Keeps. Putting. Words. I. Type. As. Whole. Sentences.
      • BabyWookie, on 11/30/2007, -1/+1Does. It. Make you talk. Like. Bill Shatner?
    • lime148, on 11/30/2007, -11/+2There are already three PS3 emulators. One's a standalone Blu-ray player, one's a combo of a Blu-ray drive and your media player of choice, and the third's just throwing $500 into a fire.
    • Chirp08, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2Kinda makes it even harder to justify 10k for the dev kit..
    • Pinhedd, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1right, and what processor are you going to run it on?
  • HCviolence, on 11/30/2007, -5/+79Ironically I believe that the PS3 may find success in the stuff you not supposed to do as opposed to the stuff offered by Sony. much like the lasting power of the original XBOX with it's XBMC hack.
    • mCanada, on 11/30/2007, -1/+7If sony figures this out (maybe they have) then they should exploit it ie. why should they worry about Doom3 being ported? I mean it's simply icing on the cake for your users. This could give them a boost that they desperately need and a user base that could last years into the future. Like OP said, my XBMC box still is kick after how many years (7????) if MS still made games for it with online support I'd buy them!!! So think about the hacker / OSS community Sony you might just have a business model that could last a damn long time and since your loosing your ass on the hardware anyways who cares about making the user upgrade every 3-4 years
      • ericrous, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Sony are control freaks. They're much more likely to fight it than exploit it. Just look at their ongoing war against the PSP homebrewers.
    • Tiak, on 11/30/2007, -3/+11Which of course, is HORRIBLE news for Sony... if the PS3 becomes a cheap piece of reliable hardware, without inspiring purchases of blu-ray films and games, they lose assloads of money.
      • bigsteve, on 11/30/2007, -2/+3This is true. A large fraction of the hardware cost is subsidized in the markup of controllers and memory cards and accessories, then games, then everything else. $400 for a Linux cell workstation? ..maybe if it had more RAM...
  • felman87, on 11/30/2007, -17/+6Halo1 on PS3 FTW!!!
  • harvinator24, on 11/30/2007, -5/+14the ps3 is starting to sound like the psp with all the hacks.
    • Klarth, on 11/30/2007, -0/+10Not really, considering the PSP's exploits (of which there are absolutely loads) were found in the firmware, leading to awesome integration between official and homebrew content, and this is (so far) just a proof of concept in an officially-endorsed Linux distro separate from most hardware functions. As far as I know, nobody's touched the official firmware yet. In short, it'll be a long, long time before the PS3 is anywhere near as capable a homebrew platform as its handheld cousin.
      • jonoxplor, on 11/30/2007, -2/+2ah but this means the PS3 is at least getting its foot in the door.
    • ch0p57ickz, on 11/30/2007, -1/+5rather.. it's a whole new type of homebrew than PSP's. There's no need to touch the firmware if these linux gurus can figure out how to access all of the hardware. Then the sky's the limit - and no constant fear of sony locking the system up again and creating another useless cat-and-mouse game.
      • Tiak, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3Unless of course Sony changes one of the many factors that could throw a wrench in the works in future PS3 models...

        It is fairly trivial for Sony to have their firmware access 4 different slightly different pieces of hardware... Now, for developers to reverse engineer and develop for 4 different models is another story entirely.
        • bnolsen, on 11/30/2007, -2/+3If Sony does crack down on these types of exploits they'll find that a bunch of users aren't upgrading their firmwares & therefore aren't buying their games. Crippling the homebrew guys I think would be very questionable. At this point it's not about piracy, just folks wanting to make the PS3 into a general purpose computer.
        • bigsteve, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2I just hope this doesn't turn into a game of hypervisor update cat-and-mouse where Sony realizes a hack exists to address the gfx chip and just shifts addresses around in the HV code, hackers find it in 18 hours, a few weeks goes by and Sony releases an update, wash, rinse, repeat...
    • Topher06, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Um, bascially running Linux on the PS3 will eventually open itself up to all its hardware and potential. Its the ultimate "homebrew" environment because you don't have to hack anything, except to write linux drivers to support PS3 hardware.. Sony allowed Linux to be installed on the PS3, period. For whatever reason, Sony choose to fight against homebrew on the PSP. I think your mistaken in thinking the PS3 is less of a homebrew environment then the PSP.
      • Pinhedd, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Sony stopped fighting homebrew on the PSP after they realised they had no way to beat it. They haven't exactly given us the keys to the PS3 either but they're not working all that hard to stop it. It's a selling point that the 360 doesn't have.
  • GreatDrok, on 11/30/2007, -2/+20To all those thinking that they will be able to play PC games on a PS3 (assuming the use of Wine I expect) you should remember that the PS3 has a PPC based CPU, not Intel which means that Wine won't work unless you hook it into Qemu for example which the DarWine guys were trying to do. Unless the source code is available you won't be running PC games any time soon.
    • Megatog615, on 11/30/2007, -1/+5Unless those games are compiled to work on the Cell.
      • tapo, on 11/30/2007, -1/+5Which includes the existing PS3 library, and any games (with source) that you could compile on the PS3, such as Quake III.

        Honestly, you'll mostly be playing open-source Linux games. I imagine if anyone wants to write an emulator for an older system, they'd need to do so from scratch.
    • prophetpimp, on 11/30/2007, -2/+2what about old mac games that were designed for the PPC processors?
      • bigsteve, on 11/30/2007, -1/+1Most likely not. This would require a Mac OS emulator or compatibility layer like Wine (Wine just being an open source from-scratch reimplementation of Windows ABI.) Considering the limited RAM the PS3 has, going even one layer deeper to emulate or pass everything through a jumptable/compat layer will really make any experience not worth the trouble.
    • Pinhedd, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1I doubt it will be very long before some older RISC based platforms are supported such as the N64, Dreamcast, etc... ISO loaders and other programs will pop up too eventually :(
    • khyberkitsune, on 12/01/2007, -1/+2Cell is NOT PPC
      • KungFuJesus, on 12/02/2007, -0/+1um, yes it is. The main core is PPC
        • khyberkitsune, on 12/04/2007, -0/+1Umm, no, it's POWER, not PPC, they're two totally different CISC architectures.
  • paulsmith288, on 11/30/2007, -3/+5will this be broken by a ps3 firmware update?
    • ch0p57ickz, on 11/30/2007, -2/+8i see no reason why it would... unlike PSP's they're not really "hacking" the system, but instead "unlocking" it. Sony's whole purpose of allowing linux on the PS3 was to allow this sort of stuff to be done separate from messing around with the PS3 system/firmware. If they screw something up in the linux kernel, they can just reload a previous version and start all over.. no harm no foul.
      • Wrathernaut, on 11/30/2007, -3/+14Sony's purpose of allowing linux on the PS3 was to show that it wasn't just a gaming console, but a real computer, NOT for people to mess around with it. They purposefully locked access to the RSX (graphics chip) so that people couldn't make games for LinuxPS3, completely avoiding licensing fees.
        • ch0p57ickz, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3if they didn't want people messing around with it, then they wouldn't use Linux. Linux = open source = people messing around with it on a daily basis. Call me a sony fan-boy (though i consider myself neutral but leaning towards sony), but I don't see a valid reason why Sony would block full use of RSX from the Linux kernels. Them blocking it solely so people can't make games for LinuxPS3 is purely speculation. If anyone actually made great games for Linux worthy of rivaling PS3 games, they have a bigger issue to worry about (And I'm sure they know anyone who actually cares that PS3 can run linux already has a linux box somewhere in their home). My speculation (which isn't any less/more valid as the one above) is that Sony blocks full use of the RSX as well as another core is so it could not run PS3 games/Blu-Ray movies free of DRM. But 3D games on virtualized hardware, why not? The 3d rendering engine is only a small part of the RSX.. it takes much more than that to run any console game.
      • Foamator, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3The Yellow Dog Linux team is working with Sony to allow Linux GPU access, so I doubt they'd really try and stop this even if they could.
    • Nobiting, on 11/30/2007, -2/+1Other OS's are stored on another partition altogether. However, if you partition your ps3 hard drive through sony's tool, all of your existing content will be lost.
    • bigsteve, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2In short, yes, they could alter the hypervisor's address table again, but they'd have to come forward first and admit that this has the potential to break Linux installs of even folks who haven't installed this module. So this might actually get interesting.
  • badassninja, on 11/30/2007, -35/+16The PS3, blurring the line between Gaming Consoles and ***** computers.
    • Tahiri, on 11/30/2007, -2/+11It's better than any of my computers.
    • ch0p57ickz, on 11/30/2007, -5/+21since when was a 6x core computer *****?
      • schoate09, on 11/30/2007, -7/+4SPUs suck for general purpose computing, add to that the whole 256 MB of RAM thing.
        • bigsteve, on 11/30/2007, -3/+2I'm not sure why you're getting dugg down. You're right. The extra RISC cores in the PS3 don't "suck", they just don't "work." They're meant to speed vector operations, not be of any use to a desktop system. Think of them more as flexible-use GPUs, like if you had a hardware/OS combination that was written to use the GPU of your graphics card to assist with some CPU heavy-lifting. As no such code exists (now) for Linux on this particular platform, you won't get much use from them. The Cell is special as it can do some of this transparently / at the firmware level... but I'm just not sure how much.
        • ch0p57ickz, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3cuz he's being negative. If you really wanted a full fledged PC, then buy a PC. If you can convert your gaming console into a PC (even if it's not the greatest PC in the world), then that's just awesome.
      • Zettabyte, on 11/30/2007, -1/+7Linux is not a bloated platform like OSX or windows. Linux should run fine on 256 of RDRAM.
        • grumbel, on 11/30/2007, -4/+3It will run, but 256MB isn't exactly great when you have OpenOffice and a bunch of Firefoxes running. Just compare it to other platforms: OLPC XO-1 has 256MB too, but its a low-spec platform targeted kids with a special low-spec GUI.
      • ericrous, on 11/30/2007, -1/+1When it has 256MB of RAM, a crappy video card, and runs Linux slower than a Down's Syndrome baby in a vat of syrup?
    • Stonekeeper, on 11/30/2007, -2/+10The folding@home stats would say otherwise....
      • Tiak, on 11/30/2007, -7/+4Honestly, folding@home is about as crappy benchmark as is possible... How many other applications do you know of that are pure floating point math?... The project happens to use the one area the Cell REALLY excels at...
        • bigsteve, on 11/30/2007, -4/+2Another one getting dugg down for no reason. It's true. The cell is amazing at vectorized math. A desktop OS however that isn't vastly retooled to take advantage of it's properties is only really going to be using the master cores. Not saying Cell isn't capable. I'm saying it's not realized in the given context.
    • t0ny, on 11/30/2007, -9/+4What is it with the anti-play station-fan boys. You ***** little xbox 360 breaks all the time and wont let you run linux. The only problem with the ps3 is lack of games and sony. Its getting better. I'm not a ps3 fan boy, the newest console I own is the xbox.
      • Tiak, on 11/30/2007, -2/+3hmm, while you aren't yourself a fanboy, you are apprently an anti-anti-fanboy, which is equivalent.
      • Sibre, on 11/30/2007, -3/+4"The only problem with the ps3 is lack of games and sony."
        -- Sounds like quite a big problem when your goal is to sell a gaming console.
      • Christbait, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1What was fanboyish about that statement? It's fair and probably true.
    • ericrous, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Brother, I wish I could dig you up 1,000 times. You just made me spew milk through my nose.
  • 4DFX, on 11/30/2007, -3/+71Reading that forum made me feel really stupid :P
    • CookieTrain, on 11/30/2007, -6/+18Reading your post made me feel really smart!

      :D
      • t0ny, on 11/30/2007, -5/+2Reading your post made be feel happy... I dont know why.........
      • crestfall, on 11/30/2007, -5/+6you make me feel
        you make me feel
        you make me feel...
        like a natural woman....huuuh.......with a penis
  • Rhinodog8, on 11/30/2007, -2/+18thats kool ans all but can we encode x.264 using all of the ps3 power yet? now thats something I would like to see
    • philhatesyou, on 11/30/2007, -2/+8Seeing as to how access to the Cell processor isn't restricted in Linux, this would only take a re-write of whatever transcoder you use to take advantage of the processor's features. Of course, that's harder than it sounds.
      • DarkDx, on 11/30/2007, -0/+7I ***** hope somebody does it, considering that as you said, it doesn't need hacking, it shouldn't be that hard (at least it doesn't need hacking).
  • Neorio, on 11/30/2007, -9/+2All this means is that BZFlag will soon be playable on the PS3. Whoopie I suppose.
    The technical chutzpah required to pull this hack off is more interesting.
    • kinghajj, on 11/30/2007, -2/+4Uh, Armagetron, GLTron, Nexuiz, etc., are all kick-ass 3D Linux games, and those are just a few.
      • senatorpjt, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Believe it or not, a local video arcade used to have a Tux Racer console. (Adventure Landing, near RIT in Rochester, NY)
  • IdanE, on 11/30/2007, -2/+16Actually, if I had an OS that had access to all the PS3 HW, I might just buy it. I use XBMC and love it, and since the team is working on a linux port, if I could get a PS3, run XBMC on it, use it for various other things (I'm not counting PS3 gaming, as those games aren't that interesting atm) and get a BD player as well, I might just be willing to buy the system.

    Hell, if they get full access to the cell CPU, I might just get one and use it for my final school project, just to be different.
    • Tahiri, on 11/30/2007, -0/+17"Hell, if they get full access to the cell CPU"

      Linux has since day 1. Even shows you while booting it has full access to both PPU threads, and 6 SPUs.
    • CookieTrain, on 11/30/2007, -2/+8jupp, the part you dont have access to is the RSX chip, damn hypervaisorz, in my Ps3 blokkink all my graphixx!
    • smergs, on 11/30/2007, -2/+6I think you can already use XBMC on Linux can't you? A buddy of mine was running it in Ubuntu for a little while. XBMC running with a processor and gpu that can actually push out HD content would be great though!!!!

      "(I'm not counting PS3 gaming, as those games aren't that interesting atm)"
      I'm almost an Xbox 360 fanboy and I disagree with that comment. It looks to me like there are several good games out on the PS3 now and better ones on the way. Not as many as the 360 at the moment, but you can't tell me you'd get a PS3 and not plan on playing a few of the games.
    • Christbait, on 11/30/2007, -2/+2What's the point in buying a PS3 if you don't like the games "atm"? I bet it's this kind of mentality that explains why it had an increase in sales.
  • sajivvijay, on 11/30/2007, -2/+3Except the title given here, I didnt understand a thing from that article!!

  • TheBaronVonJim, on 11/30/2007, -8/+10Now for full access to the Cell... and Sony have my money.
    • philhatesyou, on 11/30/2007, -2/+11Linux on the PS3 has full access to the Cell. Perhaps minus one SPE.
    • senatorpjt, on 11/30/2007, -0/+13So, Sony already has your money?
  • bj1989, on 11/30/2007, -3/+2Sony won't be charmed, on the other hand this might slightly increase the PS3 sales
    • ch0p57ickz, on 11/30/2007, -4/+4yes, how dare these "hackers" increase the functionality of a feature Sony specifically allows and endorses. They're going to get sooo pissed off....
      • Tiak, on 11/30/2007, -3/+7...Why yes, yes they would... Because it loses them money... I'll outline it for you:

        People buying PS3s -- Loses Sony money.
        People buying PS3 games/blu-ray movies -- Earns Sony money
        People doing nifty things for the PS3 including making their own, non-Sony-licensed games -- People buying PS3s that don't buy games/movies.
        People buying PS3s with purposes other Sony's games/movies -- Failure for the product.
        • ch0p57ickz, on 11/30/2007, -0/+5you're forgetting something... more people with PS3s, regardless of whether or not they buy the games... increases positive publicity for the company, which increases stocks, which increases the net worth of the company. While games are the chief money maker in game consoles, additional sales for other reasons won't hurt either.. If sony didn't want anyone to buy it but for the games and the movies, then it wouldn't include the multimedia capabilities and they would never have opened up the system to run linux in the first place.
      • senatorpjt, on 11/30/2007, -0/+10People buying PS3s for any reason = higher console sales. Whether or not they buy games, increasing console sales does a lot for getting more exclusive content for the people that do. Also, it's likely that people who buy a PS3 for this purpose will also buy games and movies for it if they have one, particularly because installing Linux on the PS3 doesn't interfere with its normal operation. In fact, it's impossible as far as I know to completely remove the regular OS partition.
      • sgoogle, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2Sony diliberately blocked access to the graphics chip, so how is this a "feature Sony specifically allows and endorses"
        • ch0p57ickz, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1there's no reason why Sony would block access to the graphics chip, it just hadn't been made to work with the Linux Kernel as of yet. Sony doesn't spend any resources on the development of the linux platform which is why it wasn't working before, they just opened it up to the legions of linux programmers to do what they do best, at no cost to the company, to expand the capabilities of the hardware, as opposed to having them tinker around with the firmware to create hacks and exploits.
    • Christbait, on 11/30/2007, -3/+1No doubt Sony will seal it up. And that's a few hundred of one's money wasted on an inferior gaming machine compared to what one could have done with that money for computer upgrades.
  • wilhel1812, on 11/30/2007, -1/+18compiz!!
    • bj1989, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Before some troll gets a change:

      "Ain't much else to do with a video card on linux."

      Just kidding, I play games on linux frequently. I use linux exclusively.
  • theclaw1, on 11/30/2007, -3/+3Commercial PC games that the source code for their engine is GPL'd, should work though. I don't see why a Q3A port wouldn't be possible once or if full GPU access is done. It's not a very demanding game at all by today's standards.

    Doom 3? Technically doable. May have to cut corners to save RAM, but it worked for the game's Xbox port.
    • Christbait, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1The Xbox port had pretty amazing visuals in parts for a 6 year old console, other than that it was crap.
  • donnydarko, on 11/30/2007, -4/+3Compiz should be possible now right?
  • StokieBread, on 11/30/2007, -10/+12Wow this is amazing, 3D graphics awesome, next you will be telling me you can play against someone in another country.
    • andyakadum, on 11/30/2007, -1/+4you can play against someone in another country.
      • Christbait, on 11/30/2007, -4/+1HOLEH ***** SHET!!! IM SO0O0 BUYEN THR33 MOAR PS3s NOW!!!11 GO SONEH!!!! YOU GUYS RO0L!!!!! MGS4 IS GREAT!!!!!! ITS NOT OUT YET!!!! BUT ITS GREAT!!!!!!1one
  • Rupan, on 11/30/2007, -4/+9Good good, it was insane for Sony to block out GPU access. When the Linux community embraces the PS3 as really one of the first unified Linux platforms IE something like Apple has with Macs, and starts making PS3 binaries for apps I may end up using mine as a PC
    • senatorpjt, on 11/30/2007, -3/+3We still don't know exactly why this was done. It may have more to do with nVidia than Sony. They haven't been too keen on providing open drivers for Linux in the past.
      • roosterjm2k2, on 11/30/2007, -3/+3No, its all sony.

        They dont want you making games for the linux side. Remember, most of their income comes from the license fees they charge developers to make games for the ps3...same reason you cant just write a game and burn it to a disc and play it...
  • meed, on 11/30/2007, -6/+6It is a shame that Sony has to cripple their hardware products like this, "hey it run Linux" (hoping to get a edge on sales for Linux geeks), "oh BTW were going to lock down many of the system resources". In Reality Sony probably did that to keep open source Linux based games off their system. Since obviously their business plan is to make up the cost of selling the systems at a loss, buy software and peripherals licensing. If Sony would release a version of the PS3 that wasn't locked down and had Proper sized HDD (500gb+) then was sold above cost, I am sure they would have loads of joyous linux users buying them to replace x86 linux boxes.
    • CrazyDave303, on 11/30/2007, -3/+2Sony has made it clear, right now they want people to have one in their home so that Blu-ray has the largest installed base. I don't know if this was a weird joke or it had any truth to it, but I read some thing about gameless PS3; basically media/net only device.
  • deepmenace, on 11/30/2007, -2/+6i always assumed that ps3linux would really take off and we'd have apps and toys and utils coming out of our ears by now.

    this is first major ps3linux news i've heard for ages. what went wrong? why aren't coders crazy for this?

    people seem to have so many ideas but are any getting action?
    • CarzorStelatis, on 11/30/2007, -3/+6Most Linux developers already have full 3d graphics and processor access - it's called a computer. Why go to the effort of hacking a games console to play 7-year old PC games when you have a PC in front of you?
      • CrazyDave303, on 11/30/2007, -0/+8Because some of them are happy to port Linux to EVERY THING that as processor and ram.

        I could not find a real list so this will have to do
        http://www.linuxactionshow.com/forum/comments.php? ...
      • roosterjm2k2, on 11/30/2007, -5/+2Frankly, sony is an evil company in the eyes of alot of people. They intentionally cripple almost all of their products... they always have. Makes for better upgrade lines... why would a developer want to do something to make people want to give them more money?
  • paulsmith288, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2will this have any impact upon video performance in linux?
    Im thinking about a ps3 for myth tv frontend - but from what I had previously heard video playback was a bit choppy. HDTV possible now?
    • Erowid, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2I assume it'll get better because of this: I remember reading somewhere that one of the issues holding up MythTV on the PS3 was that there was no access to the PS3 GPU... Hopefully this will come shortly, I've been wanting to do the same thing :) I'd say keep an eye on http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/MythTV_on_Pla ... if you want updates. *crosses fingers*
  • Kufr, on 11/30/2007, -2/+1Did anyone notice the amount of 0x31337 lines in the code?
    • sgoogle, on 11/30/2007, -2/+2Not really, only a few to reference a memory address. Not suprising
      • andyakadum, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1you didn't see the previous ps3fb hacking thread did you? There was like "8A8E 1EE7 C001" and all sorts of crap being returned.
  • MrTea, on 11/30/2007, -3/+3Nice.
    Next up, videos of users running compiz fusion and spinning the ol' cube on their ps3's.
    • arcticblue, on 11/30/2007, -1/+4If it's compiz running on ubuntu on the PS3, it'll be on the front page immediately!

      oh, and I can comment in Safari again! Yay!
  • bobbob1016, on 11/30/2007, -12/+1When do they make a 360 emulator? I have a 360 as well, but this would be interesting, and more possible than a PS3 emulator. The cell processor is technically 8 chips, the 360 has 3. I think it would be easier to use 4 chips for the emulation layer, 3 to actually emulate the 360, and 1 for Linux, than it would be to emulate the PS3 on the PS3.
    • DarkDx, on 11/30/2007, -2/+1No, 1 is locked for the os, not for linux but for the hipervisor, so that leaves you with only 6 chips
      • bigsteve, on 11/30/2007, -2/+1...and a very broken understanding of processor architecture.
    • mantastic, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2I don't think you understand how emulators work.
    • Pinhedd, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1the 360 has 3 CISC cores running two threads each (SMP). The PS3 has 1 CISC core running two threads (MP) and 8 cores (1 disabled, 1 redundant) running RISC. The caches aren't shared either, so sorry, no 360 emu for you.
  • arcticblue, on 11/30/2007, -2/+40[sigh]

    I submitted this a couple weeks ago. After it died in the PS3 section, I submitted it again to the Linux section where it died again. I'm wondering...to get to the front page, is it a prerequisite that you create multiple accounts and send shout spam? I'm not upset or anything, I just find it odd that only a few people can get stuff to the front page while interesting stories submitted by others never make it out of upcoming. It might just be me, but I feel like Digg is flawed in this aspect.
  • CrazyDave303, on 11/30/2007, -8/+3Has Sony bitched about people hacking their system and installing software that they don't not want on it?
    • krische, on 11/30/2007, -1/+8Except the give you the option to install linux on it. It's right in the XMB. "Install other OS"
      • CrazyDave303, on 11/30/2007, -7/+1Lots of people gave Sony the option to install software on to their PC, but they still turned around a bitched about it.I just through it would be funny if Sony did the same.
    • Christbait, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Press release going live in 5... 4... 3... 2...
  • SignorDildo, on 11/30/2007, -3/+18Gimme a keyboard, gimme a mouse, and gimme Kubuntu and full PS3 hardware support at a kernel module level, and I'll seriously consider dumping my desktop PC. Let me run PS, PS2 and PS3 games FROM the desktop and SEEMLESSLY RETURN to the desktop when I want to get some work done and I WILL dump my desktop PC.
    • eryximachus, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Linux will always run under a hyperviser. The DRM issue will require it.
  • donjuan571, on 11/30/2007, -14/+2and why does anyone care?
    • Zamfir, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3More importantly, why does someone who obviously doesn't care feel the need to leave a comment? Hrmmm... maybe you answered your own question...
  • TheZorch, on 11/30/2007, -3/+2For those who make the comment that this is "hacking", you are wrong. For one thing Linux is GPL'ed and Sony cannot limit who changed anyone makes to it in way, shape or form ... this includes undermining efforts to get 3D graphics support to work under X.org because it would be considered deliberately sabotage of the license.
    • CrazyDave303, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3# Computer hacking where someone is enthusiastic about computer programming and all things relating to the technical workings of a computer
      # Computer security hacking where someone attempts to defeat or exploit the security capabilities of a computer system.

      I would call it hacking....
      • ch0p57ickz, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2hacking is such a dirty word nowadays.. a lot of hackers are just curious.. and a lot find exploits and defeat security capabilities so they can learn to improve upon them. Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Sergey Brin, and Larry Page are a few of the greatest hackers in our day.
    • bigsteve, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3This has zero do with licensing. It has everything to do with Sony using a hypervisor to jail alternative OSes away from seeing the real story on exactly what hardware is available. They aren't violating anything, except people who choose to pay money for a console from a company that is telling you what you can do with hardware you purchased. Sure, they have a vested interest in keeping you from using the full power of the graphics accelerator... playing open source games, perhaps using future open-source Blu-ray players, rolling your own HD Tuner PVrsolution that one-ups the one they'll eventually release... a bit unscrupulous? Maybe. Illegal? No.

      And I'd certainly classify this has hacking. A lot of people have spent a lot of time figuring out undocumented features of a proprietary hypervisor to be able address things around it.
  • carbbomb, on 11/30/2007, -7/+2Dugg, just because its Linux

    http://www.rocketsciencegroup.com/blog/uploaded_im ...
  • postalblowfish7, on 11/30/2007, -2/+2"draft kernel module for this along with a relevant Xorg driver."

    nerdiest thing i've dugg all day.
  • drizzlelicious, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2This just made my day.
  • vaxt, on 11/30/2007, -1/+11SWEET! TUX RACER ON PS3!
  • momsshizzle, on 11/30/2007, -12/+1Sweet! Linsux!
  • BomarJr, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2mupen on the ps3? hopefully cause not even GTA will make me happier than OoT on ps3.
  • CLShortFuse, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2I think i was discovered 13 days ago.
    "Article" Link: http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=6 ...
    Digg Link: http://digg.com/playstation_3/Hardware_Acceleratio ...

    Of course, I could be wrong. Funny how it was discovered on xbox-scene.
    *if this comment appears commenting from Opera has been fixed*
  • Pissoff, on 11/30/2007, -3/+2Why do they put such a tiny amount of ram into consoles anyway?
    • MiDri, on 11/30/2007, -0/+5That's all they need.
      • Dayyve, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3Jury's still out on that one. Frame-rate issues on the PS3 are being blamed on a lack of RAM, and consoles are notorious for putting as least amount of RAM possible because of cost. Same with skimpy hard-drives. Put it on the developers to figure out a way, they always do.
    • Pinhedd, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3cost effectiveness. Consoles are specialised and dont need the tremendous amount of RAM that PCs require.
  • need4speed, on 11/30/2007, -4/+1excellent, hopefully an iso loader will be released before the xmas!
  • noseeme, on 11/30/2007, -0/+6Now we just need to find a way to install more RAM into the PS3... :D
  • TWillz, on 11/30/2007, -4/+3Who has time to mess with ***** like this? Don't these people own COD4?
    • Dayyve, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2Im guessing they buy the games just to crack the copy-protection. Just for fun, ya know.
    • ch0p57ickz, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1hey, this is the kind of thing i'm studying in school right now (which is why i'm so geeked up about this and commenting everywhere)... doing these kinds of things on the side keeps me(and i'm sure the rest of us) sane between coding 1000s of lines of software that does things i'm not even allowed to know about.
  • cambob76, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2See? The PS3 is hard to code for! J/K
  • 01l0, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3Hello, Blender render farm!
  • italianlancer08, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1This is great news!! Seriously! Using this sort of work around in a hypervisor bug to access the RSX is pretty nifty indeed. Unfortunately, I don't think there is much to say about playing "backup" games. I've heard rumors about this being able to take place, however, I don't believe it. They (IBM) put lots of effort/money into security for the Cell processor. So I don't think we'll be playing any BD-Rs anytime soon! However, this would be wonderful if we could play Quake 4 with 8 SPEs @ 3.2GHz with 256MB of XDR
  • NFicano, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Who the hell would cast Sinbad for Jingle All the Way..
  • smek2, on 12/01/2007, -0/+1Ok, who of you actually understood what they were talking about in the forum? These code snippes made me feel like it's ASM time again.
  • mobislink, on 12/01/2007, -1/+4 "I've finally been able to setup and use a second independent context. I was able to perform the 'upper VRAM workaround' from this second context, even though the first context (setup by ps3fb) has restricted upper VRAM access through DMA (by means of the lv1_gpu_memory_allocate(ps3fb_videomemory.size,...) call)."

    OMG. This is amazing. Do you now what this means. By setting up the second independent context you now have access to the internal flux capacitor. If you can get your car up to 88MPH in Motorstorm time travel will be possible.
  • int19h, on 12/02/2007, -0/+1This is great! Now I might buy a PS3. If this leads to more Linux-games, it's a good thing as well.
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