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NSA Wiretapping Whistleblowers Found Dead in Italy and Greece!

bradblog.com — "Two whistleblowers — one in Italy, one in Greece — uncovered a secret bugging system installed in cell phones around the world. Both met with untimely ends. The resultant scandals have received little press in the United States, despite the profound implications for American critics of the Bush administration."

Bury
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  • dmuth, on 10/12/2007, -12/+40Fascinating. Thanks!
  • ZenFu, on 10/12/2007, -6/+38Anyone seen the movie "Enemy of the State"? Just a thought.

    Dugg.
  • Airspeeder, on 10/12/2007, -9/+77Funny how little publicity this is getting in the media.
    • Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -6/+41Not surprising, American media wouldn't cover the news if our lives depended on it. Which it does.
    • nazsco, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7having worked for the press. all you need to do to block this kind of news, is to give away free cell phones. yep, they're that cheap
    • jcb1987, on 10/12/2007, -16/+5Honestly, don't you find that surprising? Think of it in terms for ratings for the media. If they find proof that the US Government has killed whistleblowers, that's major breaking news. Whoever could substantiate it would see a nice little spike in their ratings. Not to mention, it would make Bush look really bad. You think anyone affiliated with Ted Turner, in the least, would let that slip through their fingers? Not a chance. The fact that you haven't seen this on any major networks is a good reason to discredit this.

      Bury away!
    • chase001, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Probably because we have no media. The news has been canceled. We now have infotainment with Branjelina, Jon Benet and the Bird Flu.
  • Paroparo, on 10/12/2007, -14/+47I wouldn't be entirely suprised. It's not like killing people is something new to the American intelligence agencies.
    • Cl1mh4224rd, on 10/12/2007, -27/+8Except, you know... all those 9/11 whistleblowers. Notice how when there's a *real* conspiracy, someone really does end up dead?
    • tehnico, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"Notice how when there's a *real* conspiracy, someone really does end up dead?"

      Is that why Osama is still alive?
  • d1carter, on 10/12/2007, -71/+13Lame
    • cyborg, on 10/12/2007, -14/+29What? I guess you didn't read the article, or you confused "lame" with "amazing", explain yourself.
    • mrASSMAN, on 10/12/2007, -16/+47He's a conservative Bush leg humper.
  • DeusMachinae, on 10/12/2007, -17/+57More proof that our government is a lot more evil than most people realize...
    • masamunecyrus, on 10/12/2007, -13/+32While this may be evil, technically, exposing classified information is supposed to qualify for treason.

      That said, treason requires a trial and a humane way of death, if found guilty, and the media would have been involved. It's very likely that whoever killed these people played some mind games and beat 'em around a bit -- NOT humane.

      So... I'll take this opportunity to say.... Go Libertarians! 2008!
    • stevius, on 10/12/2007, -6/+43treason also requires that you be a citizen of the country you are supposedly committing an act against... these two were not citizens of the u.s.a.
    • sgtpinky, on 10/12/2007, -10/+21I like how you write 'our' like everyone on here is American. I'm not.
    • VTmruhlin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14Technically "our" in that context means him and some arbitrary group (in this case, the rest of America), not necessarily you.
    • barakatx2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"While this may be evil, technically, exposing classified information is supposed to qualify for treason."

      Weren't the guys that died from Italy and Greece?
    • nazsco, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4It's not the government that is evil.

      it's the people that is dumb.
    • collintheweak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6'Are dumb': Oh! The irony.

      I'd call government a force that historically does less good than bad.
  • bgoodknight, on 10/12/2007, -38/+10Here we go with the "America is the new NAZI Germany!@@!@ OH NO!@!@" type comments.
    • miketrin, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3you are blind if you don't see we already are like Nazi Germany.
  • ll0ll0ll0, on 10/12/2007, -19/+5ww3 is on the horizon!
  • mikev, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16The phones of the government in Greece have been tapped since the Olympics. Unfortunately our government is lazy and let people walk over them: they don't care much about it.

    :(
    • menneke, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2True enough, it is a real shame that our government is as lazy as our people are. To paraphrase your own words, they (the Greek people) don't care much about anything that doesn't concern their own petty interests. We've got the government that we deserve, alas...
    • mikev, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2If we have our tsigarakia, ola kala re :P
    • elkos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Who knows... maybe we allready knew that the US was listening.
      Well for some people this was a "Good Thing" cause it gave the greeks the oportunity to say: "You were eavedroping guys, so we don't trust you so much. We can't buy another bunch of F-16C/Dblock52s this time, sorry. It's not that we are cheap. No! It's a luck of trust guys. Make us trust you, you know the color of trust: "green with dead presindents on it""
  • bgoodknight, on 10/12/2007, -9/+46Maybe I would give it some credibility if it was from a reputable news source.

    "Brad the blogger" doesnt really strike me a "reputable", maybe I'm just being silly...
  • rwinograd, on 10/12/2007, -15/+15Common people.. This is reported on a blog. Show me a mainstream news source (BBC, Reuters, AP.. hell i'd even take Al-Jezera) and i'll retract this.
    • rwinograd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Thanks for someone pointing out the BBC story about the death of the guy. i would have liked someone to point out something with a little more oomph than this guy has died and he worked at the company.
    • dtschwe, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15Why can only "credible news" come from the mainstream media which are controlled by a handful of large corporations? I'm by no means stating that this is credible. It seems to be mostly speculation about the deaths. I just don't see the mainstream media as that credible either.
    • nazsco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4above your comentary there's already some bunch of well stabilished (for an alternative) media groups reporting this.

      Theres also links to John Brady Kiesling's column that was published in the united states.
    • nazsco, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6about hearing it from reuters, ap, etc... they're too busy informing the world that hezbolah is evil and that the militar state of israel is the paladin of justice
    • rwinograd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Ahh this must be the same Reuters and AP that hires photographers whom place brand children's toys into building rubble so as to show the effects of a bombing.

      Curse those Zionist slobs!
    • ASHole71, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Maybe his Reuters is different than the one in the US.
  • TruthElixirX, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Its all very interesting, but can someone tell me how credible the sites he links to are

    The only one I have heard of is the observer, and I'm not sure how reliable they are. The rest I've never heard of (not counting the phone company sites).

    I don't doubt that the wire tapping happened, but as fr as these two turning up dead I'm jsut curious how legit this story is.

    Pardon me if they are reliable and I just sound extremely dumb.
  • WackyT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12It was Matt Damon! I saw over the net his passport was in both Italy and Greece at those times. Jason Bourne lives!
    • lvraab, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Cain is for Carlos and Carlos is for Cain.
  • ll0ll0ll0, on 10/12/2007, -10/+19the media is state controlled propaganda anyway. i'll believe a blog over the news ppl anyday.
    • TruthElixirX, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10And just how does Brad the Blogger get his information then?
    • Hollywood, on 10/12/2007, -3/+34From Bob the Builder
    • WackyT, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9And special reports from the front from Thomas the Tank Engine.
    • LowFuel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I think it's Bran the Builder.
    • picaro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2...or Bran the Burner.

      IMO, The Three-Eyed Crow is really the Great Other.
  • alex.will, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Sweet color scheme. I gotta get me the hex codes!
  • mgroat, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6If this were legit, I'm sure somebody could at least find an obituary in a major, reputable newspaper.
  • techbum, on 10/12/2007, -21/+8Some idiot named Brad (who probably wears a tin foil hat to keep the aliens from stealing his thoughts) reports something stupid in his Blog and it makes the front page of digg? Lemmings.
    • shift99, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4838552.stm
    • jerr0328, on 10/12/2007, -8/+6aren't you the guy that posts on every digg story: "and THIS makes the front page?"
      I'm sure you have a bumber sticker that says "phuck phrance" because you believe France bombed the US on 9/11 in September of 2003.


      (yes I know that's all wrong, but suprisingly some people do believe that)
    • techbum, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3No, actually I don't post too often about the questionable validity of some of the stories that seem to make it to the top of the digg heap. I just don't buy into all of the conspiracy theory garbage that many of the folks around here seem to like.
  • Crossmenjeff, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10the fact the deaths are over a year apart doesn't really strike me as "planned" as much as it does "looking for coincidences". I'm sure there are hundreds of people who learned of the "conspiracy" and spread the word just as we would, should they be afraid?
  • SushiCW, on 10/12/2007, -14/+7Yellow journalism at its finest. No real citation of sources, wild speculation, and rampant sensationalism.

  • zzleeper, on 10/12/2007, -3/+25Before questioning, do your own research:

    BBC:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4838552.stm

    Greek Newspaper:
    http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100016_19/08/2006_73302

    AlterNet:
    http://www.alternet.org/story/40485/

    Other site (Look at URL):
    http://www.whycostas.com/costas.html
  • Antebios, on 10/12/2007, -14/+6Sssshhhh..... you didn't hear it from me, but the NSA and CIA are killing puppies and kittens also. OH, and Isamic Terrorist are plotting to kill us too, just in case you cared.
  • jmchez, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Stop discussing this people! You want to be next? :-O


    Heheheheh!
    • titlesaysitall, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4(titlesaysitall is no longer here, the came NSA and headshot him.)
    • alex.will, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@titlesaysitall

      Doug works for them? Now I'm really scared.
  • jerr0328, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7If the blogosphere was as prominent on 9/11 as it is today, I believe that a lot of the "facts" reported on the blogs (quotes around facts because fact has to be proven, and some of the stuff we're told hasn't been proven fully in either direction) would have been refuted, even though some might have been true to even today, even if the media was wrong (and they have been and always will be wrong at some times).
    Moral of the story is: take everything with a grain of salt. Attaching to everything you see is as silly as believing a square is a circle because a 3 year old said so.
  • Thater, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I think it's a mistake to discredit the story by virtue of it being blogged on a poorly designed website alone. Though I would say that one of the men's involvement in having a couple of major Italian crime lords sent to prison casts another dimension to the story though. Also, the lack of details regarding Costas Tsalikidis' death is unsettling. I think it's just a matter of the blogger drawing outrageous conclusions from purely circumstantial evidence. It's easy to say "They blew the whistle on a conspiracy, now they're dead" and not actually point the finger, but make the implication clear.

    i think it's an interesting story, and one that I'd never heard before, but I don't think it really makes a case that our (The US) government was somehow responsible for their deaths.
  • psients, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4One of them is Tom Cruise.

    No wonder Paramount had to fire him. He's dead!
  • bluto20, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1watch the movie called "The Listening." good flick
  • DEaDIRiS, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4"uncovered a secret bugging system installed in cell phones around the world"

    So the US managed to sneak agents into all the assembly lines of Kyocera, LG, Motorola, NEC, Nokia, Panasonic, Phillips, Samsung, Sanyo, Siemens, SonyEricsson and planted bugs into all the phones and all the Quality Control didn't catch it and/or all these companies were complicit with the US government.

    OK....Sure
    • rzklkng, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2No, what's more likely is that in order to garner FCC licenses for frequencies and to get US approval for their devices certain off the books requirements were made to be designed in to allow "rescue personel" to be able to locate you in case of emergency, as well as other "undocumented" features.
  • diggduggjoe, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Why are we discussing this? They could be listening or watching.

    I mean at any minute, anyone of us could a' iyha08qyc thiegg['askddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
    • Zopwx2, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Jokes aside, they really are listening..... 0_0
    • diggduggjoe, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I know, but we cannot let it own us.
  • cyborg, on 10/12/2007, -9/+5America, screwing other innocent people in countries we can barely pronounce since 2000
    • Thater, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Our country was founded on screwing innocent people, so it's been going on a lot longer than that. Also, I have no trouble pronouncing "Italy" or "Greece". Your argument is full of holes!
    • elkos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1you can't prononounce Greece? try the Helleniki Democratia for a change...
  • XCHIP13, on 10/12/2007, -11/+3I think anyone who exposes a classified program like the NSA wiretapping deserves to die.
    • Saintlink, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3You're talking about it. Hang him!
    • dtschwe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Don't you think that if someone has a very good reason to believe that something the government is doing--especially on a mass scale--is illegal they have an obligation to bring it to the attention of "we the people" or should the government be able to do anything it likes as long as they classify it?
  • teljax, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3what a bunch of morons
  • greymaxcat, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5I love the NSA... They are the good guys... I would never, ever cross them... They are my friends... NSA-all the way!... I don't even think bad thoughts about them... they would know If I did... nope... I loves me my NSA!...
    • Seta, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@greymaxcat

      *knock, knock* Hello? Max? This is the thought police. Open the door Max. We know what you're thinking, and we know you're there. *knock, knock* You can't get away Max. We even have the local boyscouts watching you.
  • fatas, on 10/12/2007, -8/+9America land of the free, what a ***** joke.
  • helix400, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5This thread does a great job filtering out those who read the article and those that did not

    The article is interesting, but leaves far more questions and answers. About the only thing it does do is make this more a European affair than a Bush one. In fact, it's hard to stretch the NSA or Bush into this one.
  • Koosebane, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6From the BBC article:

    "But there is another theory about Costas Tsalikidis: that he was allegedly the person who actually inserted the software setting up the phone-tapping operation."

    "It is possible," says Themis Sofos. "I cannot exclude anything."

    "The theory is put forward by John Brady Kiesling a former American diplomat who worked at the US embassy in Athens until resigning in 2003 over the US-led invasion of Iraq."

    "He is convinced American intelligence agents were behind the whole bugging operation and he says it is possible they used Mr Tsalikidis to install the software."

    Theories. Possibilities. Allegations. Suspicions. Disgruntled employees.

    It appears I've discovered the reason for the media's reluctance to place any blame in any of these cases.

    This is nothing more than gossip at this point.
  • VTmruhlin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5These guys might have actually commited suicide, as an indirect result of the NSA. It's common practice in the intelligence agencies to blackmail people into not talking. If they had something juicy enough on these guys, they might have killed themselves to escape the possible embarassment.
  • Highborn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Greece, what a beautiful country.
    • Web_Weasel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Greece IS a beautiful country and the home of western civilization. Be nice.
  • FlyboyP, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5More about this from John Brady Kiesling's (former State diplomat to Greece) homepage here:
    http://www.bradykiesling.com/vodafone_scandal.htm
    • Koosebane, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"I speculated incautiously in a BBC interview on possible scenarios for the March 9, 2005 suicide of Vodafone network manager Kostas Tsalikidis."

      Yeah, no *****, dude.
    • off2aruba, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2" I speculated incautiously in a BBC interview on possible scenarios for the March 9, 2005 suicide of Vodafone network manager Kostas Tsalikidis. The text of his final e-mail to his co-workers before he was found hanging was the message of someone who was not coming back. An outsider could not have counterfeited his specialized knowledge of Vodafone technical issues. The rigorously technical language is remarkable for a farewell -- this was a clinical gesture of loyalty to an electronic network, without a single nod to the social ties that dominates ordinary lives. He bought the rope himself.

      In June 2006, Greece's famous counterterrorism prosecutor Giannis Diotis reached the logical conclusion that Tsalikidis had committed suicide for reasons directly connected with the eavesdropping. His report did not reveal who installed the software and what role Tsalikidis might have played."

      You people watch too many movies. He killed himself.
  • flowctrl, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
    • Web_Weasel, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1They can be out to get you if you're not paranoid too. So does it really matter?
  • cybe, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Let me remind you that american phones are tapped by the counterfeit country in (but not of) Israel:

    http://100777.com/node/180
  • menneke, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3At least on the account of the Greek Vodafone scandal, this guy makes some serious mistakes, where he states: "This is, by any measure, a troubling admission — especially since Ericsson manufactures many mobile phones used in the United States. Vodafone insists they were never informed of this "feature" in Ericsson phones,...". EVERYBODY PANIC!

    BULL! It is not about (Sony) Ericsson phones, there never was "a feature" in Ericsson's phones, it is the Ericsson telephony infrastructure in the mobile operator's hubs that was infected with bugging software.

    Moreover he mis-spells "Vodafone" on every occasion. When he says at the end "Are Ericsson cell phones the only ones with the built-in spy technology? We can't be sure. But one thing is certain: When the fellow on TV asks "Can you hear me now?", the person he's addressing may not be the only one who can say yes.", it really made me throw up. This guy is just a sensation seeker.
    • AeroSquid, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2been many years since i believed anything the US government said.
  • wibblewibble, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Do you still believe everything the US government feeds you wholesale?
  • djchester, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Interesting theories. Have anyone found any comments directly from Ericsson or Vodaphone?

    "to unlock and use the eavesdropping package, the company must pay Ericsson a hefty fee (allegedly four million euros). The Greek government allegedly refused to pay this fee, despite its desire for wiretapping capability during the 2004 Athens Summer Olympics. One reason was that a clear legal basis for such eavesdropping was not yet in place."

    If this is true Sony's root-kit on music cd's is going to be very small in comparison.
  • Tolpero, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3One more source here: http://www.alternet.org/story/40485/

    Bove was a master at detecting hidden phone networks. Recently, at the direction of Milan prosecutors, he'd used mobile phone records to trace how a "Special Removal Unit" composed of CIA and SISMI (the Italian CIA) agents abducted Abu Omar, an Egyptian cleric, and flew him to Cairo where he was tortured. The Omar kidnapping and the alleged involvement of 26 CIA agents, whom prosecutors seek to arrest and extradite, electrified Italian media. U.S. media noted the story, then dropped it.

    Thought about submitting that a few days ago, but never got around to actually doing it..
  • PoorYorick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3We can't permit evesdropping of any kind, even if it were to save lives. The invitation to abuse is too great, but also, it chills communication. You're less likely to blow the whistle if you think your anonymity is compromised by talking over the phone, say, to a reporter.
  • diggmanic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Don't mess with the US.
    • elkos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1...but soon enough US will start messing with it's own self.
      And this mess is not a mess we want to mess with cause we will get messed up!
  • Cantrellv, on 07/23/2008, -0/+0Thomson Reuters' UltraTax CS™ Earns Highest Electronic Filing Acceptance Rate
    http://www.sourcerelease.com/corp/4w2?r=2mmmm1
  •  

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