Donkeys and Elephants and Delegates,oh my!
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US Torture Tactics at Guantánamo Inspired by Communist China
iht.com — The military trainers who came to Guant ánamo Bay in December 2002 based an entire interrogation class on a chart showing the effects of "coercive management techniques" The recycled chart is the most vivid evidence of the way Communist interrogation methods that the United States long described as torture became the basis for Guantanamo Bay.
MakiMaki- 972 diggs
- digg it
- mrg14x, on 07/02/2008, -36/+4Wonder what these guys are going to use to get information from people that have tried to kill our soldiers and who want to kill us.
http://www.ydito.com/showchannelimages/?PicNumber= ...
Wonder what technique they going to use.- franklymister, on 07/02/2008, -2/+16Maybe, instead of torture, Obama would prefer to use methods that, y'know, WORK.
Don't forget, McCain himself was against torture before he was for it: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/10/6/43412/4301 - EtherGnat, on 07/02/2008, -0/+11"Wonder what these guys are going to use to get information from people that have tried to kill our soldiers and who want to kill us."
And we know those are the kinds of people that are being tortured, because they've all received fair trials and been found guilty. Oh, wait... - pigfister, on 07/02/2008, -3/+7So, do you think that the USA supplying FREE weapons paid for by the US tax payer, to arm Israel so they can commit genocide in Palestine is just then do you?
never forget Rachel Corrie murdered by an Israel bulldozer.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=Rachel+Corr ...
In the official American 9/11 report Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's main motivation behind the attack was Americas continued support for ISRAEL this is in black and white freely available to anyone that can read! The pdf 9/11 report, its very heavy reading but i can help *5.2 The Planes Operation report page 154 about half way down "U.S. Support for Israel"*
http://www.9-11commission.gov
Report download page: http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/index.ht ...
There was the public 9/11 commission on c-span stating that the main reason for the 9/11 attacks was the continued support for Israel in their quest to cleans the occupied state "Palestine" C-Span video can be found on youtube and here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1bm2GPoFfg&feature ...
Israel Violates UN Security Council, Occupying Syria's Land with Noam Chomsky: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vj45865jpE
Military AID is free weapons, 30 billion $ worth for Israel on top of the $24 billion America has already given, to continue, to illegally occupy Palestine and slaughter its inhabitants paid for by the American tax $!
Analysis: New US-Israeli arms deal (BBC) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/69499 ...
FTA:
*****Thursday, 16 August 2007, 16:02 GMT 17:02 UK
This new agreement sets increased levels of US military aid for Israel over the coming decade.
In broad terms, Israel will receive a total of some $30bn (£14.8bn) in military aid, a significant increase over $24bn (£12bn) it received over the past 10 years.
US ARMS AID TO ISRAEL
$30bn over 10 years
1st payment of $2.55bn in 2008
Annual payments rising to $3.1bn by 2011
26.3% can be spent in Israel
Rest must be spent on US arms*****
Dispatches: The Killing Zone.
British journalists report on Israeli violence in Gaza against not only Palestinian civilians, but international aid volunteers and foreign reporters as well. This is their first hand account of the violence and what life in Gaza is like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5RAxay3jg8 - sizzzzlerz, on 07/02/2008, -0/+2Wonder what you'll say when our soldiers who are captured by the bad guys are subjected to torture.
You'll be just fine with that, I presume, since they're only trying to get information for those who'd kill them.
Awfully slippery slope you wingnuts have us heading down.
- franklymister, on 07/02/2008, -2/+16Maybe, instead of torture, Obama would prefer to use methods that, y'know, WORK.
- Tangaroa, on 07/02/2008, -3/+46I wonder who greenlighted the use of techniques designed to obtain "false confessions" as the chart's title said. Somebody approved this, removed the original descriptions from the documents, and lobbied for the program within the Pentagon.
- MacSuxWindozSux, on 07/02/2008, -0/+2That's the "invisible hand" everyone's always talking about. You find that guy and everything unravels.
- vinod1978, on 07/02/2008, -0/+3Actually many of the people that have pushed keeping people at Gitmo are involved in the Christian embassy according to the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. I wouldn't find it hard to believe that they were involved in the training aspects of these techniques.
- mutz, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1if you can't beat them then join them
- MacSuxWindozSux, on 07/02/2008, -0/+2That's the "invisible hand" everyone's always talking about. You find that guy and everything unravels.
- FrankHope, on 07/02/2008, -2/+50Is this what we've become? Are we on the road to Fascism?
"Fascist America, in 10 easy steps"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.co ...- lazerus9, on 07/02/2008, -1/+16.....yes
- swcoruscant, on 07/06/2008, -0/+0and just like Fascist dictators, Bush loves declaring war on helpless nations
- jstohler, on 07/02/2008, -2/+50Here's the punchline: torture didn't work 50 years ago, and it doesn't work now. Amazing how people consistently fail to learn the lessons of history.
- redcolumbine, on 07/02/2008, -3/+12Torture doesn't work for obtaining real information. The threat of torture can, however, scare people into doing pretty much anything you want them to, especially when threatened against one's family.
- pintomp3, on 07/02/2008, -1/+15"scare people into doing pretty much anything you want them to" that's still not real information.
- aigulf, on 07/02/2008, -0/+7pintomp3, I think he was agreeing and offering the real motive for the reinstitution of torture. Not to gather information, but to eventually coerce people. If, all of the sudden, dissenters are being tortured for information on their "co-conspirators", then people will be pretty slow to voice dissent.
- Phearce, on 07/02/2008, -0/+9Facism does not use torture to obtain reliable information. It uses torture to make an example of the "bad people". Consider this: do you regard the treatment of the Git'mo prisoners as shocking or justified?
- MWeather, on 07/02/2008, -1/+5Murder and rape? I think that qualifies as shocking.
- Hellman109, on 07/02/2008, -0/+250 years ago? try 2000 years ago.
Torture has been debunked as an intelligence gathering method for MILLENNIUMS - eclecticpassion, on 08/01/2008, -0/+1yep, "an eye for an eye only results in making the whole world blind" stoop to the enemy's level and you become equally guilty of crimes against humanity, which in the enemy's eyes, justifies further attacks.
- redcolumbine, on 07/02/2008, -3/+12Torture doesn't work for obtaining real information. The threat of torture can, however, scare people into doing pretty much anything you want them to, especially when threatened against one's family.
- livegreenordie, on 07/02/2008, -0/+13I had a hard time loading this so went to the front page. I found this as a supplement-
http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/OathBetrayed/interrog ...
(note that one detainee died) - qdkk, on 07/02/2008, -3/+26What happened to America? In just seven years, America is heading straight towards fascism.
- CryRightardCry, on 07/02/2008, -3/+20The Bush administration happened, with the full and blind support of the GOP.
- doctechnical, on 07/02/2008, -18/+1Somebody rammed some planes into some buildings, and for some strange reason the US didn't have much of a sense of humor about it.
- sadisticmind, on 07/02/2008, -0/+2imagine what the US would be like if that never happened.....
- Phearce, on 07/02/2008, -0/+9That thinking is remarkably similar to what the Germans were saying before the Third Reich established its stranglehold on the world.
- MWeather, on 07/02/2008, -0/+5But they burnt the Reichstag!!
- tumatakuru, on 07/02/2008, -2/+2Look around. You've arrived.
- GeoNine, on 07/02/2008, -0/+4Well, I hate to break it to you, but we've been heading that way for a long time (longer than 7 years). The Bush disaster has just brought our tactics much closer to the public eye. Check out the People's History of the United States if you really want to learn more about it.
- allowners, on 07/02/2008, -0/+22FTA: The only change made in the chart presented at Guantánamo was to drop its original title: "Communist Coercive Methods for Eliciting Individual Compliance."
- Fangsinmybeard, on 07/02/2008, -2/+10Why not, they are drawing on a much longer history of oppression.
- mrcoderga, on 07/02/2008, -0/+44If you torture a person he will tell you whatever you tell him to.
Torture is merely brutal ventriloquism.- Kizilbash, on 07/02/2008, -1/+15I am soooo stealing that line, very well put!
- MadKennyP, on 07/02/2008, -0/+2Well said.
"I will now torture this prisoner . . . while drinking this glass of water!"- dondara, on 07/02/2008, -0/+3Watch out where you put your hand, buddy
- sodade, on 07/02/2008, -0/+4We need a "best comments of Digg" compilation. This one gets my vote...
- eclecticpassion, on 08/01/2008, -0/+1exactly..like the trials for witchcraft in the middle ages, where if you floated, you were guilty and if you sank (therefore drowning) you were innocent. in many cases, they keep torturing until they get you to confess to something, take the case of diliwar, an innocent iraqi captured by u.s soldiers and tortured to death in abu ghraib, one of the us concentration camps in iraq (this story is shown on "taxi to the side" on youtube, and is very eye opening)
- louiss19, on 07/02/2008, -12/+3The Communist Chinese Government has actually done much, much worse...
- ozymandias2012, on 07/02/2008, -8/+17More crap from China we don't need....
- MarkEarhart, on 07/02/2008, -10/+8I think we should seize all assets of David Rockefeller and Henry Kissinger, use it to pay off the national debt and divide the remainder between all American citizens. Then, we could send the treasonous scum (oh and let's not forget Bill Clinton, Bush Sr., W, and Carter for allowing any form of relations to have ever developed or continued with China while we still refuse to normalize relations with Cuba,) to China penniless. That way they could appreciate first hand what a successful "social experiment" that "chairman Mao" started.
- rationalbeats, on 07/02/2008, -3/+5go back to digging ditches you redneck.
- wendelgee2, on 07/02/2008, -1/+6What?
So now this is China's fault because they're a bad influence? - franklymister, on 07/02/2008, -1/+5Rockefeller is worth about 2.7 billion. I don't know what Kissinger's got, but since he doesn't make the Forbes Wealthiest 400 list, it's got to be under a billion. Let's go crazy and pretend he's got a billion dollars.
National debt = $9,495,272,656,419
So, you could almost pay off four one hundredths of a percent of the national debt with that. That's right, 0.04%.
What if you just said screw the debt, and decided to take the good ol' Maoist/Stalinist approach of seizing all their money and redistributing their wealth to "all American citizens?"
The CIA World Factbook says we've got 301,139,947 people here. I assume you'll be leaving Rockefeller and Kissinger out of the beneficiaries list, so I'll call it 301,139,945.
That means every American citizen gets $12.48! Spend it wisely, comrades! - kingmanic, on 07/02/2008, -1/+3Mao's experiment was a dismal failure. It's been Deng Xiaopings dance and since Mao's exile from power. It's been more fascist then communist.
- YoWhatDaFuxUp, on 07/02/2008, -3/+8Atleast we still have the right to "Bear arms"
http://i10.tinypic.com/4zmke8h.jpg - monkeyrun, on 07/02/2008, -2/+7lol communist China.
Read some history books, they are no master of tortures by any means.- Phearce, on 07/02/2008, -2/+5True. Hopefully our gov't will step it up a notch and begin using the Khmer Rouge playbook.
/sarcasm - jnava121, on 07/02/2008, -0/+10dugg, japanese were way better at it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataan_Death_March
oh yeah and this from wikipedia:
Special Japanese military units conducted experiments on civilians and POWs in China. One of the most infamous was Unit 731. Victims were subjected to vivisection without anesthesia, amputations, and were used to test biological weapons, among other experiments. Anesthesia was not used because it was considered to affect results. In some victims, animal blood was injected into their bodies.
To determine the treatment of frostbite, prisoners were taken outside in freezing weather and left with exposed arms, periodically drenched with water until frozen solid. The arm was later amputated; the doctor would repeat the process on the victim’s upper arm to the shoulder. After both arms were gone, the doctors moved on to the legs until only a head and torso remained. The victim was then used for plague and pathogens experiments.[20]- dondara, on 07/02/2008, -0/+4Sweet jesus ...wtf. Amazing what humans are capable of. No wonder the Chinese hate them so much.
- punx, on 07/02/2008, -0/+4Geez, J, that one made me sick.
- Phearce, on 07/02/2008, -2/+5True. Hopefully our gov't will step it up a notch and begin using the Khmer Rouge playbook.
- Thrilltone, on 07/02/2008, -0/+7Let's see, from column A, I'll have the Waterboarding...
and from column B, German Shepard Chewing on my Nutsack.
http://nonsai.com/pics/fourlights.jpg- dondara, on 07/02/2008, -0/+3Special column C, glow stick in the ass!
- treyevans, on 07/02/2008, -5/+1rolling my eyes
- webyatri, on 07/02/2008, -0/+5so what else is "Made in China"
- leerayIG88, on 07/02/2008, -3/+5Yeah...China is a great place. I started my own business there. Making good money and enjoying the great wonders of China.
- awesomeric, on 07/02/2008, -5/+0Digg
-made in china- - WilliamDavis, on 07/02/2008, -15/+1This will all stop as soon as we elect Obama!!! OBAMA 08!!
- spongya77, on 07/02/2008, -1/+10It shows that torture done by the US was never intended to be used to "stop the terrorists". Sick, ***** up people are leading this country.
- flogistan, on 07/02/2008, -1/+5Yeah, if you count the fact that neocons were trotskyites I guess you could somehow blame their behavior on communists. Making long farting noise with my mouth. I'm pretty sure you can't hang this one on the chinese, the ideas are american neocon all the way.
- Hetman, on 07/02/2008, -1/+8It is funny. China is becomming more like the U.S and the U.S is becomming more like china. Im sure we borrowed the patriot act and fisa from China also.
- rrife, on 07/02/2008, -6/+0Like most stuff from China....it may be cheap, but it works.
- Sluglas, on 07/02/2008, -0/+4"Inspired" Nice wording.
- atmmac, on 07/02/2008, -12/+0Everyone should be glad we tortured these ***** insane terrorist muslims......
- sodade, on 07/02/2008, -0/+3I am so ***** glad that my country is run by ***** insane terrorists who think like you.
- tufftugg, on 07/02/2008, -2/+6 For all the comedy posters, your off handed comments just feed the view of the ''Ignorant American''.
- richnojutsu, on 07/02/2008, -0/+7Before my cousin died he used to say "a day without laughter is a day wasted." If you seek to stop me and others from laughing at the absurdity of my government in favor of pulling my hair out, I will gladly wear the label of ignorance.
- dondara, on 07/02/2008, -0/+2Get bent. There is nothing above ridicule. Nothing.
- JimmySpaza, on 07/02/2008, -16/+1If I have to torture a thousand Islamic terrorists to protect the life of one child, then all I have to say is...red is positive, black is negative, throw the switch.
And torture does work when it's done right. Why do you think so many people still use it? Duh!
Liberals, you need to get over yourselves. You're no where near as smart as you think you are.- Hetman, on 07/02/2008, -1/+9So you are one of those so called compassionate conservatives I hear so much about. WWJD?
- pakruse, on 07/02/2008, -1/+4I'm sure Jesus would have approved waterboarding (or would it have been wineboarding in that case?)
- richnojutsu, on 07/02/2008, -1/+10Indeed. Torture works wonders!
We have such a long list of instances in which torture gave us all a much better world. I mean, do you see any witches walking around today? Thank the Lord for that! - publiclurker, on 07/02/2008, -1/+8Look, we already know you are filth. Do you have to keep reminding us?
- JimmySpaza, on 07/03/2008, -2/+1Mommy, mommy, there is a liberal making fun of me!
Don't worry son. He'll go away when he has to get a job.
[hehe]
- JimmySpaza, on 07/03/2008, -2/+1Mommy, mommy, there is a liberal making fun of me!
- dupswapdrop, on 07/02/2008, -1/+5You sound just like a Islamic terrorist!
- sodade, on 07/02/2008, -1/+9And if you have to kill 1million innocent Iraqis to accomplish jack *****?
- JimmySpaza, on 07/03/2008, -3/+1I'm not talking about the debacle in Iraq. I'm talking about what you do to a captured Islamic terrorist who wants to kill millions of innocent men, women, and children.
- Fordi, on 07/03/2008, -1/+2Fine, sure. But you'd better be pretty damned certain those 'Islamic terrorists' are, in fact, and not just businessmen, journalists, etc.
The number of examples of innocents that have been through Gitmo is unacceptable. Disagree if you like, but then you'd have to change your above statement to, "If I have to torture a thousand *brown people* to protect the life of one child, then all I have to say is...red is positive, black is negative, throw the switch."- publiclurker, on 07/03/2008, -1/+1You don't actually think a chicken hawk coward like him cares if they are innocent or not do you? As long as he can download some of the pictures to keep by his stash of tissues.
- Fordi, on 07/03/2008, -1/+1Oh, I don't even expect Jimmy to respond with any quality of argument (though, I wouldn't be surprised if he responded with his standard idiot ramblings). I just like to poke at him when I see him.
He's always good for a laugh, and anymore, it's more about irritating the fool for the lulz than really driving a point home. That the lulz and the driving fit together so well is just a happy coincidence.
Meanwhile, no; I don't expect Jimmy, the warmongering, intolerant born-again plankton to give a ***** about the brown people he feels deserve detention in Gitmo. They're obviously not Christians, after all; why should he care?
Now, mind you, I'm all about doing something about fundie Muslim fascism - that Islamic mirror of Jimmy's particularly over-salted, under-spiced flavor of Christianity - and their attempts to foist Islam on the rest of the world. I support doing something about them exactly as much as I support doing something about any fundamentalism. That is, help educate these people on the concept of critical thought - and if not them, their children.
I mean, the way the West emerged from the religiously-induced dark ages was through intellectual enlightenment and the advent of critical thought. It's unfortunate that Islam's descent from cutting edge to stone axe came at the same time, but it was for lack of ubiquitous education, not for lack of any education. Give their children the tools, and, as an Sudanese immigrant friend of mine said, "Those old Habib's will crumble under their more secular children's weight"
Jaamal was the one person that gave me a gleam of hope about the whole middle east debacle in the last 15 years; the way he put it was in reference to The Hitchhiker's Guide: "I got out of there. Almost anyone with any smarts have been getting the hell out of there as quickly as possible for generations. The people that are left - well, you remember the floating party in the Hitchhiker's Guide?* They're the people who haven't left the party, and are genetically incapable of leaving the party."
* Referring to a party that has been going on for four generations, in which the children of those who stay are less likely to leave than their parents were - resulting in almost a genetic inability to do anything other than party. Jaamal's argument is that those who can leave the middle east, but won't must be genetically incapable of doing anything other than taking offense and killing anyone who disagrees with them. I told him that the American Appalachians are getting like that; he agreed that our fundamentalists, while not nearly as scary as his, are starting to come close. - Fordi, on 07/03/2008, -1/+1(sorry; timeout truncated my edit.)
It gave me hope, because despite his argument that those living in the Middle East are genetically incapable of leaving, he left, having that heritage, and was a reasonably well-educated and rational man, despite having fundamentalist Muslim parents**.
It gave me the hope that a whole section of the world wasn't completely lost to stupid - that we only need to make the right tools - education and technology - readily available to the children of the bigoted swine that control these nations, and they would be able to break - or at least mitigate - the chains of fundamentalist teaching that would otherwise bind them into a life of cyclical violence. Just a little ray.
** Meanwhile, he was a secular Muslim - about the same level as reformed Judaism, or Anglican in their zeal - faithful, but happy to live with other religions and beliefs, and not at all pushy about them.
- Hetman, on 07/02/2008, -1/+9So you are one of those so called compassionate conservatives I hear so much about. WWJD?
- morgino, on 07/02/2008, -7/+1I don't think I have EVER seen anything on Digg that presents something positive about the US. Nevermind the billions we send to Africa to fight Aids and poverty, the billions that are spent on trying to improve peoples lives all over the world and all the US citizens that donate there time to charity.
Yeah I know, our country isnt perfect but try to throw in a scrap of positivity every now and then.
I'm Probably going to be "buried" for trying to say something good about my country near the 4th of July.- Hetman, on 07/02/2008, -1/+5The government is torturing people, spying on there own citizens, and ignoring the 4th amendment. What should we be happy about. There are a lot of great things about this country, unfortunatly the government is trying to take them away from us.
- dondara, on 07/02/2008, -0/+3Oh, so we should ignore all the wrongs because of a few good things? Does that sound logical to you? We are striving for an ideal here, not pretty good or good enough.
Besides, most of the monies donated to Africa are from private charities.
- willi, on 07/02/2008, -0/+7Blame everything on others! Take some responsibility!
Where is the human right activists now? - etoiles, on 07/02/2008, -0/+8Pretty disturbing title, I must say. Instead of highlighting the whole 'false confessions'/torture bit, they slip in a subtle blame on China.
Next up, blaming China for inventing gun powder... - amightywind, on 07/02/2008, -1/+6Maybe we should just outsource our torture to the Chinese, and get an information DVD and a body back.
- flashback99, on 07/02/2008, -0/+4..but still carried out by the US!
- chrissku, on 07/02/2008, -0/+6I'm glad that we just pissed off a new generation of terrorist. Torture does not work.
- rz8472, on 07/02/2008, -0/+9Forget Communist China... the US prosecuted Imperial Japanese soldiers for war crimes because they waterboarded Allied POWs.
- unfairunbalance, on 07/02/2008, -1/+3 Not only inspired toture, but inspired the way our Government works and the Justice system.
That is why Amerika has more pepole in the prison system then any other nation on Earth. - dupswapdrop, on 07/02/2008, -0/+3Torture is good for you, here you can have my place in line, you go first!
- unfairunbalance, on 07/02/2008, -2/+6 USA a false sense of a free Democratic-Republic. In reality a Socialist Corporate Fascist State being run by David Rockefellar and the CFR.
- DiggGeek24, on 07/02/2008, -5/+0This is BS my friend is a guard at guantanamo bay the detainees get 3 meals a day my friend said the only torture is turning the air to 60 or 90 or playing music at 3:00 am.
- nblsavage, on 07/02/2008, -0/+4Yeah and my friend says your friend is full of *****.
- kahlessreborn, on 07/02/2008, -0/+4Wow we import everything from china
- laudyms, on 07/02/2008, -0/+2Shameful and criminally stupid.
- jtbauki, on 07/02/2008, -1/+1Why is any reference to China prefaced with "Communist" or "Red"? I see that everywhere including mass media. I've been to China and they never say "Democratic America" or "Colonistic America" or even "Fascist America." I think we are being programmed to hate China because the US plans to attack them soon.
- obamayomama, on 07/02/2008, -2/+0It amazes me that we're even concerned with this ***** given the fact that were up against people that will cut off our heads at the first chance they get. Do you libnuts not see what we're up against here? Sadly, I think it'll take another 911 before people stop whining about this crap and allow the US to kick ass and take names again.
- vinod1978, on 07/02/2008, -0/+2The United States has the highest prison population rate in the world, 686 per 100,000 of the national population, and we are surprised that Gitmo tactics came from China?
- tumatakuru, on 07/02/2008, -0/+3The headline should read 'US Entirely Responsible for Torture Methods used at Guantanamo' (and Abu Ghraib, and Bagram, etc etc).
Why this need to shift the blame elsewhere? Why such a problem takinng responsibility? It smacks of the excuses the Nazis used at Nuremburg.- onyxcoltrane, on 07/03/2008, -0/+3This article does not blame China
- amenhotep, on 07/02/2008, -2/+1Before 1949, the Chinese Communists were widely turtured by the KMT, who was then a close ally to the USA, under US' direct advising in numerous "Sino-US Coop" Offices all over China, and somehow, The Communists managed to travel through time and inspire the US torturers. Great story, and great listeners you all.
- mrzack, on 07/03/2008, -1/+4Congratulations America, you are now China!!!!
- aenegeling, on 07/03/2008, -4/+1The difference being that the Chinese government carries out such torture on China's own people.. In particular, against followers of the Falun Gong religion who are subject to the worst forms of torture imaginable. It doesn't get much worse than having your bodily organs extracted from your body while you're still alive.
http://www.organharvestinvestigation.net - zzzf123, on 07/03/2008, -5/+1Take a look at torture methods in today's China (with illustration)
http://www.falunhr.org/index.php?option=content&ta ... - LoJack, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1I knew it. Those dirty chinese commies are behind everything evil.
Phew... I'm beginning to smell like a rose... -
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