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10 Absolute No-No's For Any Freelance Web Designer

wakeuplater.com — If you're a freelancer, make sure you don't make any of these common mistakes.

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  • Bahimiron, on 11/24/2007, -4/+12311. Don't put the porn site you designed on your non-porn resume.
    • AgentKPB, on 11/24/2007, -5/+37Non-porn resume?
      • ErikHK, on 11/25/2007, -0/+13Yes, all professionals have one non-porn and one porn resume.. It's standard procedure.
        • GeorgeClayton, on 11/25/2007, -1/+10It's actually 1 non porn resume and two porn resumes (one for porn web-design, and the other for porn itself)
        • loosebooty, on 11/25/2007, -0/+2unless you're defined as a "secondary producer" in your 2257 statement, then you'll only need a single porn resume. "primary producers" will probably have to have all three.
  • Drgn547, on 11/24/2007, -1/+23011.) Can you finish our site without any content from us? No.
    • fant0m, on 11/24/2007, -2/+76I can't say how many times I've had the "We don't know what we want on the site - that's your job as the designer. Here are some of our competitors - maybe you can find some information from all these sites and compile enough information into this site."

      FALSE.

      If I wanted to learn your profession inside and out, to provide great content, I wouldn't be studying, learning, and practicing web design. I would have your job. And by the looks of it, probably do a better job.

      It is not the designer's job to find information, type it out, and have it make sense to make that company look smart. It is our job to present information given to us in a way that people can relate/interact with in a positive manner, thus, creating efficiency for the site.

      Those people who want us to find information FOR their site really need to step on a nail. A rusty one.
      • noahhoward, on 11/24/2007, -3/+5Content writing isn't for everybody though. If you are providing a design service t will only serve you better to either be a good copywriter (and charge well for it) or to have access to some good copywriters. A good design will start with content you aren't a graphics designer you are an information and communications designer.
        • loosebooty, on 11/25/2007, -1/+5apparently you haven't been a freelancer for very long.
      • zammit, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1spell checking their provided content is okay tho... its so embarassing when potential clients look at my past work and there are spelling errors.
    • egonSchiele, on 11/24/2007, -0/+4this comment is better than the ten on that site. Every such site I have worked on has sucked big time.
      But the client was happy~
    • outsid3rNo17, on 11/24/2007, -1/+20DUGG THE ***** UP!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Assholes make me waste 30+ hours on a single image until it looks as good as the silverlight.net images and then tell me to just copy the information from their crappy old site that hasn't been updated in years.
      • gritta, on 11/25/2007, -1/+3I read the article and forgot to digg it up until I read your comment, cheers! :P
    • thejohnfloyd, on 11/25/2007, -0/+3it's even worse when they expect you to create the content for their site...
    • se1zure, on 11/25/2007, -0/+2Seriously, about the only thing I should have to do content wise is typography, and even thats not really content.
    • thebrawl, on 11/25/2007, -0/+612. Can you make the web page look exactly like this Word document I made including every tasteless font and clip art picture?
  • z0mbie2099, on 11/24/2007, -3/+26I already made mistakes 1, 2, 3, 7, and 9 :[
    Thanks for this though.
    • BobaFettTDG, on 11/24/2007, -5/+3"Unlock 1, 5, 7, and 9, release charge." *froosh...frooooooosh*
  • appletalk, on 11/24/2007, -1/+32Very good article. I kinda disagree with the IM one, but I do strongly agree with 10). Make sure they understand the code you're giving them can be reused, just like they're also benefiting from your past experience.
    • epilonious, on 11/24/2007, -1/+16I always have a "business IM". IM accounts are free anyways, just don't sign in fter the project is done or when your off-call.
      • voetsjoeba, on 11/24/2007, -1/+5I like that idea, but doesn't that mean you'd have to create a new one for each project you do? Sounds like a bit of a hassle to me.
        • Daniel591992, on 11/24/2007, -0/+3Just block the person.
          • dinostabOMG, on 11/25/2007, -0/+3Didn't you learn that that doesn't work in middle school? They'll just use whatever other accounts they have/can figure out how to register.
    • pr0gr4mm3r, on 11/24/2007, -0/+2I have an IM account for work only. If I'm not on call, that IM account is not online.
    • zammit, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1Helping them understand the code your giving them is not theirs is just being nice. Legally you hold the copyright to the actual code by default (well when freelancing anways). If you are employed the code belongs to the company, but if you are contracted (or similar) you are the owner, unless otherwise noted in some sort of agreement.
  • fant0m, on 11/24/2007, -0/+23Personally for #3 I include this in my "startup fee." I tell them that for $XXX.XX - (I have a standard startup price) I will get them set up with hosting, domain, and email address. I take what is needed for the hosting and domain, and put the rest into the account. I got the idea from a "Home Based Web Design" book that I picked up. At first it sounded shady, and I didn't want to charge people to set it up, because it's very simple - but at the same time, the demand is there, and people will pay for it - how much is up to you based on the amount of clients willing to work with you.

    Just my .02
    • Chongo, on 11/24/2007, -0/+6I agree with you. I recently switched to a Dedicated Virtual server. I now charge every new client $10 a month... which is VERY fair. I put the price for an entire year into the estimate and in the end it helps cover my own costs.
      The main reason I want to host my clients sites is that in the past, I've created a site that was very PHP or database driven and when it came time to make it live, the clients current hosting plan didn't allow databases (or in one instance PHP!). If your testing platform is on the same hosting plan as your clients new site is, then you won't have to worry about incompatibilities.
    • arobar, on 11/24/2007, -0/+7The concern isn't getting them setup. Yes, companies will pay you to do this, and it's an easy buck to make. The concern is that you will now receive support phone calls at all hours because "the website doesn't work" or "Joe said he sent me an e-mail but I didn't get it". Meanwhile the issue lies with the host, who the customer SHOULD be calling for support. That startup fee is great, but it doesn't cover the hours you'll spend on the phone explaining that you don't actually host the site, someone else does, and that's who the customer needs to call for support.
      • fant0m, on 11/24/2007, -0/+1I definitely see your point - and it's a good one at that. But I let the customers know that it's not my server - but that's just me. I've seen some freelancers describe how they have X amount of hard drive space and hosting security, etc - when really its the third party company that has this, and the freelancer is making it seem as though he has a server room in the basement. I've "jimmy rigged" a link on my page that connects to my hosting companys (Host Gator) chat room technical support - that way if they have a problem, the emails, the chat logs, and the tickets all go straight to Host Gator, and I rarely hear anything from my customers as Host Gators staff handles it.

        Why do I use Host Gator? Because, to me, it's very easy, efficient, and I haven't had a real big reason to switch companies. I am open to other options, though!
    • Charlotte_Web, on 11/24/2007, -0/+4I agree with his point that you don't want to get into a situation where you're doing IT support for their web and email servers, unless you're masochistic.

      My take on it is this: I just resell a much larger company's hosting services. Any problems? Here's the 800 number to call. GoDaddy is very good about this. If my clients ask, I have no problem telling them that I'm just a reseller and have no direct involvement with management of their server.
  • KnightMareInc, on 11/24/2007, -2/+8812. Dont take "shares" as payment
    • xtc46, on 11/24/2007, -1/+50unless the company is named "google"
      • AdmiralKarelia, on 11/24/2007, -2/+20"Hi, we'd like you to design a website for us."
        "Alright, what's the website called."
        "We'd like to call it 'Google.com'."
        *click*... *dial-tone*
        • VictoryGin, on 11/24/2007, -0/+29"ok, I've designed your site"
          "...hrmm... it's just a text field, a few buttons, and our name..."
          "yep."

          That would have been a nice design job to take on
    • Charlotte_Web, on 11/24/2007, -0/+5That's pretty much points 5 & 6, which sound like the typical Craiglist poster looking to barter for web development services.

      I'll occasionally troll craigslist looking for prospects; on a few occasions, I've gotten some nice gigs, but most of them are worthless. I ALWAYS pass over the ones that want to swap an equity stake (or similar form of compensation) in lieu of a cash payment for services rendered.

      One poster I responded to wanted web development and SEO for a paint product he was selling; naturally, he was flooded with responses. So he came up with the idea to set up a contest where each web developer would "prove themselves" by setting up their own website and SEO program to sell his product; the winner would get a brand new Lexus (on a three-year lease); the losers would simply get a 15% commission on everything they sold. I respectfully declined.
      • bradleyland, on 11/26/2007, -0/+1I get #5 and #6 a LOT. I'm sure most web developers do. I always tell the customer that if I wanted to the in the [widget] business, I'd find a [widget] supplier and set up shop. I've built hundreds of failed ecommerce sites. Why would I want to be involved in one?
  • MikeonTV, on 11/24/2007, -4/+12Great list here. Do you think that every web designer can obey these rules? No
  • UGM2099, on 11/24/2007, -0/+12911. Can we dangle the last payment over your head while we nit pick for months about things we should have thought of at the beginning of the project? NO!
    • AxeSwinger, on 11/24/2007, -0/+16That's why you have a substantial completion clause in your contract. If the site is up and running error free that is substantial completionand final payment should be made. Generally substantial is 95% complete to estimate that figure look at total hours worked for the job.
    • YojimboJango, on 11/25/2007, -0/+7This happens to every single coder ever. Not even just web design. Good coders just expect that the client is lying through their teeth when they tell you what they want.
      "We just want a simple website that tells the kinds of things our company sells and a little about us."
      This really means: "We'll need a total listing of every product we sell combined with a search feature to list them all out in every way we come up with from now till the project is finished. Then we'll need you to come in and take pictures of everything because we don't have time to and when we need to add new items and pictures we expect you to do that for free. Then we'll need you to keep updating our company information on the website and of course you'll have to do that for free too. Then we'll need you to find us a place to host the site and that should be included in what we said we would pay you, what you told Ted our manager that it wouldn't? Well Ted never told us and he didn't have the go ahead to make that call anyways. Oh and now that the project is 2 weeks late we've decided that we'll need an online store built into this. What? You won't do that for the $200 bucks we gave you? Well fine you're not getting paid till it's done, and we'll just hire someone else to finish this up since you won't."
    • zammit, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1Create a contract that both parties sign and date, and make sure you both have a copy. Describe exactly what they want and what you're providing them, from the color of the background to the amount of pages and photo retouches/optimizations. This way there are no questions.
  • meechp123, on 11/24/2007, -1/+4very nice article. i love number 10
  • boomybx, on 11/24/2007, -1/+21I may be freelancing soon and this kind of article is just what I need. Thanks for sharing your experience.
  • daxsymbiont, on 11/24/2007, -65/+50. stop web designing and find a real job!
    • mossblaser, on 11/24/2007, -0/+23Oh did you just send that message via digg? a website? oh, well, I thought you said web design was not needed?
    • AdmiralKarelia, on 11/24/2007, -0/+10And where, pray tell, do you work, Dax?
      • arcooke, on 11/24/2007, -0/+9He occasionally runs errands for his mom and earns $10 / week allowance.
        • MasterLevi, on 11/25/2007, -0/+1Does he live in the attic or the basement?
    • arobar, on 11/24/2007, -0/+10Says the guy who's browsing the web... Do you think those web sites you visit every day just appeared there on the web server?
    • lwilson, on 11/24/2007, -0/+10I'm so sick of people who define anything web related as "not a real job." Just because I get to work at home at my leisure while you work at your factory boring ass job for 8-9 hrs straight doesn't make my work any less. I just know how to work smarter and enjoy my life, you lame.
    • tubeblender, on 11/25/2007, -0/+2What do you consider a real job? I always defined it as being paid money for providing a service or product. Have I been wrong all these years? Damn. Thank you for bringing my ignorance to light.

      DOUCHE BAG
  • VicTheKnife, on 11/24/2007, -2/+13Great article! I can't count the times I've been screwed...actually I can: 3.
  • daxsymbiont, on 11/24/2007, -9/+4"are you going to be completely robbed by web designers that don't answer just no to those questions?" yes.
  • johneyoung, on 11/24/2007, -3/+12I think if the price is right, any one of those questions can be answered "yes."
    • morninglorii, on 11/25/2007, -0/+4except the ones that could result in you not getting paid
  • condormcs, on 11/24/2007, -2/+43There's just one more change we'd like you to make....
  • violentvinyl, on 11/24/2007, -0/+4Good tips, a lot of these apply to any kind of freelance or contract work in general, not just web design. Good read for anyone who runs, or is thinking of running their own business.
  • diggerphelps, on 11/24/2007, -0/+12211. Never do any kind of web design project for extended family members.
    • djm101, on 11/24/2007, -0/+3That should definitely be one, especially parents.
    • TheOneGreatX, on 11/24/2007, -1/+12unless. of course, they pay your normal rates.
      • wiifm69, on 11/24/2007, -1/+16which, of course, they won't
      • resplence, on 11/25/2007, -0/+4And they will be sure they're entitled to more attention and endless support for free because they're family.
      • dinostabOMG, on 11/25/2007, -0/+3Eh, I dunno - that could easily end up awkwardly.
    • nuclearpotato31, on 11/25/2007, -0/+1I wish I'd read this comment earlier.
    • CraigJ, on 11/25/2007, -0/+3Generally, I agree with this, however if you have a family member, that, say, is one of the largest catering business in LA, and say, knows a ***** load of connected people that you want to to business with, and is willing to give you mentions to said people, etc. then it might, maybe, be worth it.
  • Rustbelt, on 11/24/2007, -1/+1911. If your client is just beginning to utilize the web, be upfront with them about requirements. Don't wait until the end of the project and complain that you weren't given enough detail about expected functionality leading to additional work. Learn to realize when you are the expert.
  • jessehadden, on 11/24/2007, -0/+28My favorite? When the client simultaneously sends the umpteenth email requesting certain things be 2 degrees greener and 1 pixel to the left, while in the same email, berating me for how long this web site thing is taking.
    • clkou, on 11/24/2007, -0/+3Yeah, I had a client who kept requesting new things every day and would also complain that the web site is never done. Stop requesting features and it will get done.
    • fant0m, on 11/24/2007, -0/+12Yeah, I've been there too! I've created a "draft system" though. I tell the customer that they get 2 drafts. The first draft is the initial design and the elements discussed at the start of the project. After reviewing the 1st draft we make note of changes and/or errors that need to be corrected. Then I create the 2nd draft (fixed/edited 1st draft). Then I have the client sign off on that 2nd draft and after that I charge by the hour. Ordinarily I charge by the project - it's just my style. I know a lot of free lancers like to do it by the hour, but most of my clients come from other clients who liked my business. If I keep prices relatively low ($800 - $2000) I find that I get more business along with referrals. Working full time and going to school full time creates a damper on time spent on designing - and being 19, I need to maintain SOMEWHAT of a social life other than WoW haha
    • basic0, on 11/25/2007, -0/+2I'm working on an intranet web app for a doctor right now in his office, and he gives me some of those conflicting wants from time to time, although he's generally cool about it. This week he came in the office and recited a joke I'm sure a lot of your are familiar with:

      There's a woman who's recently divorced after a long marriage. She's on a date with a new man when the topic of sex comes up and she admits to him that she's still a virgin. "Still a virgin?" he asks "but you were married for years! How can you still be a virgin?". She tells him "Well, my ex-husband was a programmer, so instead of actually having sex, he'd just sit at the end of the bed and keep telling me how good it was going to be when he was ready to deliver."
    • EnderMB, on 11/25/2007, -0/+2This is why I ensure that everything is added into the contract, including a nice clause saying that additional requests to design or functionality will be charged from £x to £y rate, based on size of change and time elapsed from previous attempt. I also run an iterative methodology and make sure each stage of project creation is accepted by the client, that way if the client were to ever want to change anything (for example, a design fault) then they'll have to pay for me to go back through the design stage, development stage, etc.
  • kreatre2007, on 11/24/2007, -2/+16These are some great tips for any freelancer -- not just web design.
  • kreatre2007, on 11/24/2007, -11/+3These are some great tips for any freelancer -- not just web design.
    • seventoes, on 11/25/2007, -0/+5So i've heard.
    • BogusJimmy, on 11/25/2007, -0/+3These are some great tips for any freelancer -- not just web design.
  • tedhead2k, on 11/24/2007, -3/+39Will you do this project for me for free? It'll look great on your resume! No.
  • buckeye45, on 11/24/2007, -3/+1this is a great article, it can be applied to a lot more than just web design. dugg.
  • MrMcGuire, on 11/24/2007, -0/+9Watch out for #3. At the company I work for, we have a server that we host our clients sites and e-mails through. When we get a call, almost 100% of the time we say "We'll have our tech look into it, and then we'll get back to you." Sure enough, literally 99.9% the 'problem' is on the clients end, and it resolves itself within the hour. I try not to be too bitter about our clients because they pay the bills, but when that call comes, I definitely have pulled out the stopwatch as a gag more than once. hehe.
  • orlyfactor, on 11/24/2007, -20/+3Will I read all of this? NO
  • CraigJ, on 11/24/2007, -0/+27I see a few of these differently, but other than that this is spot on.
    1) Can you show me a mock-up to help us choose a designer/developer? - I charge for design and I always present a complete design before I implement all the code, etc. At that point, if they want to have their kid or someone else implement, that's fine. I have never lost a client once I've reached this stage.
    3) Will you register and host my site? Yep, I prefer this actually. I charge $275 a year for maintenance and hosting (more depending on traffic), and the client has no access to the server at all, and I only host what I implement. I charge by the hour for services such as adding e-mail accounts, etc. The reason I like this is that the user can't screw anything up. I get less calls this way in the long run, plus the money from this subsidizes my other web sites and traffic. I've never had a problem with this.
    4) Can you copy this site? No, but I will ask them what they like and don't like about a particular site and why, and how they think it fits their business. I work these concepts into the final design, but I never copy code or content.
    9) Is there any way you could get this done tonight or this weekend? Depends on if they want to pay for it or not. If a client has a specific need and needs a rush job, I will do my best to accommodate, and charge accordingly.
    • willwgm3, on 11/24/2007, -0/+4I agree with number 3. Learning how each different webhost runs things is a royal pain - especially if you are doing any CGI work. Plus having to get FTP accounts for each client and then having them change passwords on you causes more delays.
    • Edogz, on 11/24/2007, -0/+1I disagree with part of your number 3. Limiting the client's access to their website can be disastrous if the creator were to disappear, quit their work, move, etc. Unless you have a method to hand over the information to access the server once you no longer wish to manage it, the client could be in a pickle later on...
      I've known a few people who have been left stranded regarding their website because they could no longer contact the original creator.
      Maybe a good idea would be to give them the credentials for safe keeping, but discourage any modification...
      • CraigJ, on 11/25/2007, -0/+3If I disappear, I'm not worried about it :).
    • GeorgeClayton, on 11/25/2007, -0/+0#3 is asking for trouble generally, unless you properly cover your bases as he seems to do (charing hourly for tech-support). Personally I think it's too risky.
      • CraigJ, on 11/25/2007, -0/+1Not as risky as making sure with you client that their hosting supports PHP 5, developing an app and having it not work because they really don't. Or having a client that uses GoDaddy. I tell customers that use GoDaddy to have me host it or find a real provider if they want me to do the work.
  • pnmoore, on 11/24/2007, -3/+7I have been on the customer side of lots of contract programming and other software projects both enterprise level (i.e multi-million $ projects) and small ones. I agree completely with #8 (he insists on 50% up front, or 33% on big projects), with the exception of the percentages. If you require/need 50% to start I will assume you are not financially responsible with your earnings and will worry about you being in business to help me later. A very common method, in my experience, is 25% to start then setting milestones throughout the project life-cycle for additional 25% payments.
    For example 25% to start, 25% on delivery of a proof of concept version (not necessarily any content, just a verification of the look of the site), 25% on delivery of the proposed final site and then 25% on acceptance of the site. Another one I have seen is 25% to start, 50% on delivery of proof of concept (with some content or functional elements in place) and then 25% on acceptance.
    This model accomplishes what the author of this article says (buy in by the customer) but protects the customer from unnecessary expense prior to seeing results on the project. If you are in business the most important thing to remember is each project should be a win-win situation. You win by getting compensated well for you skill and knowledge, and the customer wins by getting a quality deliverable at a reasonable price and payment schedule.
    • topherbook, on 11/24/2007, -0/+8Just because a freelancer's policy is 50/50 or 33/33/34, that is NO indication of that person's financial stability. It's preference and precedent. You can also use the milestone method, but the freelancer may still be sitting at home starving and waiting for the next milestone to pass so he can eat a good meal. It's all a matter of the freelancer's preference and the needs of the client. Period.
      • pnmoore, on 11/25/2007, -0/+1Unfortunately life is all about perception. This is a lesson most people have trouble learning. If I am a corporate customer (which I was in the past and that is the experience I speak from) one of the things that matters is your long term viability as a vendor to me to support what I pay you to do. If you give me the perception that you can't afford to do the job without being paid for half of it up front then I am going to worry about your long term viability. Also, if you expect me to pay you for half the work before I receive any kind of deliverable then I am afraid we just won't do business. On lower cost projects this is a little more negotiable, but it loses a lot of that flexibility as the cost level increases.
        If the freelancer signs up for a deal that leaves him "starving and waiting for the next milestone to pass" it is his fault. He must have underestimated the work involved in the milestones agreed to (remember, in my example the freelancer agreed to them too, not just the company dictating them...you can always walk away!).
        Any freelancer that doesn't care how the customer views the situation is doomed. I was just trying to provide a view of the other side, and whether you like it or not it is true and accurate, at least for every company I have dealt with in this capacity for the last 15 years.
        Perception IS reality whether you want it to be or not, and whether the freelancer is REALLY financially stable or not. When I am looking at potential vendors I look for reasons NOT to use somebody first. Makes it easy to weed out the bad ones quickly and efficiently.
        • jkoke, on 11/25/2007, -0/+2Well, to provide the designer's perspective, the 50% upfront (which is standard for my firm, and many others) helps weed out the deadbeat clients -- so it works both ways. Most clients have a budget set aside for the project, so the money is there and they don't have a problem cutting a check when the agreement is signed. If they do have a problem with it, that's usually a red flag. The idea that a company's request for 50% upfront is any indication of their fiscal responsibility is pretty dumb -- can't you just check references, find out how long they've been in business, etc.?

          As far as "paying for half the work before I receive any kind of deliverable" goes, you need to be better at selecting design firms. If you're worried that the designer is going to cut and run, produce crappy work, or take too long, etc., you need to check references or work with firms that your trusted colleagues recommend to you. Most of my work comes through referrals, so new clients have a good idea of my quality, timeliness and professionalism.
  • Grimi, on 11/24/2007, -8/+311) Don't use the word no-no
  • Philbert, on 11/24/2007, -0/+15"Don't do unpaid work for the chance to be paid -- this wouldn't fly in any other industry,"

    I actually see this in the 3D industry all the time. I can't count the number of job offers I've had with "differed payment". They ask you to work on their independent film that's going to be a huge blockbuster (really, it is!) and you'll get paid when the ticket sales come pouring in. Right. The other favorite is when payment comes in the form of "I'll let you use it on your demo reel, it's great experience!". If I want to do something for my reel for free why do I need you?
    • digitalpencil, on 11/24/2007, -1/+2I don't work freelance but unfortunately this seems to be expected in most creative industries. I tend to knock up quick pshop templates to show them what the end-product will look like and show different examples of individual elements to give them a rough idea of functionality. Doesn't take long and generally ties them in for the long-haul.
    • bieber, on 11/24/2007, -0/+1Photographers get a lot of that crap too, as I'm assuming do virtually all other brands of creative professionals. The sad part is that there probably _is_ someone out there willing to do it "for the experience," which perpetuates the cycle of clients thinking they can get work from beginners for free.
    • GeorgeClayton, on 11/25/2007, -0/+1I'm also a 3D artist. At the company I worked at recently, they started to get into a lot of spec work. Since I was low on the food-chain, I knew it was wise to just keep my mouth shut (although I eventually got laid off). Anyway, only about 15% to 20% of the spec work landed any jobs. We actually landed tow big jobs, however both jobs were billed at a loss, severely taxed everyone at the company for a couple months . . . .to the point they expected most everyone to work weekends and were buying dinner.

      It's significantly more professional to refer them to your portfolio, saying you always produce quality work.
  • marijun, on 11/24/2007, -0/+4good article. i've made a few of those mistakes, and i hope others don't have to learn from experience like i did.

    i had one client that would shamelessly page me at 4am because "his email didn't work". by the time i got up and went to the computer, of course, it was working fine.

    i had another client who wouldn't pay me the final 50% of the bill until i did about 65416541650 extra ***** things to his site that took a month, all the while being berated and questioned "why is it taking so long???". then he still tried to shaft me out of a measly $50 of the final amount.
  • utahnkid, on 11/24/2007, -6/+7You need to be veeery careful when reading this.. Don't for ONE second get on a high horse and think that when you go out on your own you write the rules. You're basically in a service industry and whatever you're willing to do, someone just as talented but more "hungry" will do for less and in less time. You just need to hope the client doesn't find them first. If I had to give one word of advice it would be: be flexible, and creative. The guy to make the big bucks is going to be the one willing to do whatever it takes for the money.
    • TheSkinsFactory, on 11/24/2007, -0/+1Well said. I just read your comment after i wrote mine down below and i said the same thing... be flexible.
    • GeorgeClayton, on 11/25/2007, -0/+3As an experienced professional, I have to disagree with you. These are all good rules to follow. Back when I was naive and breaking all these rules, I lost the most clients because I was too willing to be flexible (at which it was unreasonable for me to do the work), but they would always try to push it just a little further. In the end, I ended up with less work, lower pay per job, and people trying to walk all voer me at every turn. You have to follow these rules (or charge accordingly for exceptions), otherwise you won't be treated with respect.
      • utahnkid, on 11/25/2007, -0/+0And as the generation coming up to undercut and pillage the business model you created, I must disagree even stronger. The only constant in any industry is that more and more people are doing it and you have to learn to differentiate yourself in ways you guys would never consider. Todays up and coming successful business model is based around being innovative and assuming only that every day can potentially bring change in everything you do and not being afraid to take pretty big risks, because whether you like it or not, your competition already is. So again I reiterate: Be flexible and be creative. Never be afraid to break a rule if you can build it better yourself.
    • zammit, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1what you say IS true, but on the other hand, you charge what you're worth and most clients will understand that... they'll get what they pay for.
  • mayhemchaos, on 11/24/2007, -0/+5Great article. I think most of us have done all these. In fact I'm negotiating with a client that I worked on almost 4 years ago, and came back to me - but times have changed, prices went up, and he still thinks I'm that college kid who'll do his e-commerce site for $X amount - sorry. No more free work from me!
  • pirateandy, on 11/24/2007, -1/+3I never do work anymore that is flat rate, i always charge hourly. It really makes the client think about changes to the site/work when you put a dollar amount on the change. Hourly, always hourly. You can never loose then.
    • GeorgeClayton, on 11/25/2007, -0/+0I used to charge flat-rate because of how fast I work (sometimes getting near $200 an hour), but the projects that liked to grow more than negated that.
  • aristotle0dude, on 11/24/2007, -8/+2As I commented on his blog, no serious corporate client will higher you if you follow #10. All generic framework code/graphics/text must be developed outside of the billable hours of a contract if it is to be reused and the client must receive a non-exclusive license for any generic code included in a project. The client is not only paying for your time but also the work you create regardless of whether you are an employee or freelance. Any content you create for them specifically becomes their property which includes code.

    The license for generic code should be included in the price of the contract.
    • Scira, on 11/24/2007, -1/+1I swear it gave some reason why he can do that, like he doesnt charge them for it.
    • dinostabOMG, on 11/25/2007, -0/+1You and the article both say "non-exclusive." What he is saying is that he won't grant them the right to be sure that the code generated for their project won't be used elsewhere. Hence, the right to use it, but the non-exclusive right.
    • zammit, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1it really depends on how specific the project is to the client, that should determine if the code is exclusive or not. if it is exclusive, you need to charge for it, the time it took to create, the potential amount of work you're missing, and then added markup.
  • whiteyMcBrown, on 11/24/2007, -0/+2That's a really good article. That guy totally won himself another reader.
  • rglover, on 11/24/2007, -1/+4This is the best website for web design tips I've ever come across, very comprehensive and knowledgeable. This guide is just one of many on the site, go through the archives, good stuff. Dugg.
  • seandfeeney, on 11/24/2007, -13/+11A guy made a comment on that website that offers much better answers. Not to put the author of wakeuplater.com as I do agree with some of his view but it is a little bitter and unreasonable. I am putting it below:

    steve
    10/15/2007 1:07:42 PM

    flippant, somewhat bitter and unreasonable.

    while much of the author's somewhat sad and embittered comments have a grain of truth and strike a responsive chord in all of us whom have 'been there', the fact of the matter is, most of the problems he cites are of his own doing, and the 'recommended responses' he offers now, are similarly ill advised and to be avoided or modified also.

    you cannot win back the time you lost, or the 'I've been had' feeling when you have designed an extensive mock-up based on an email conversation, (after a hefty all-nighter) only to see the client go elsewhere with an inferior design, or worse, something cheaper that seems to incorporate some of your inspirational gems or proprietary knowledge.


    Addressing some of your more egregious observations in turn:

    #1. "1) Can you show me a mock-up to help us choose a designer/developer? No.
    "

    A knee-Jerk NO! while satisfying, is petulant and inappropriate.
    The name of the game is engagement and diplomacy.

    Try instead,
    "Please take a look at my body of past work "Portfolio" and my references to get an example of my skills and what I am capable of.

    If you like, you can contract me to construct a site prototype for you !(maybe)

    See, you dont spit on a potential customer, nor disregard the interaction just because they do not come at you with the instant blow job you so obviously seek.
    Engage them, let them know your expectations: How else will they ever learn? :)


    2) Can you give us a discount rate? No.

    Proper answer: SURE! (after I internally mark it up 100% :) )

    It is always a negotiation: if you have not posted a rate schedule, then the 'rate' and the 'reduced rate' can be anything you want!

    You also, if you are working for a tax-exempt non-profit, bill at $100/hr, collect $50/hr and claim $50/hr as a donation to the organization on your taxes! (your mileage may vary, it worked for me!)

    3) Will you register and host my site? No.


    Why not? with the right SIGNED AGREEMENT
    HOLDING YOU TOTALLY BLAMELESS FOR THE TOTAL DISAPPEARANCE OF THE WEB SITE OR FOR SYSTEM DOWNTIME AND YOUR LACK OF RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANYTHING WHATSOVER (and of course a healthy markup for typing all that ***** up :)

    At the very least, the domain and site become collateral for unrequited payments, if your SEO is any good, you could even resell the domain name to recoup some costs ( see the SERVICE AGREEMENT FOR 1and1 and GoDaddy..they say EXACTLY THE SAME THING!!)

    Also, YOU HOSTING THEIR SITE (and restricting access accordingly) means that THEY DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO YOUR CUSTOM PHP/ASP CODE!

    Software as a SERVICE BABY!


    "7) Do you have an IM account? No."

    Right answer: YES

    Access to me via IM is part of my TIER II SUPPORT PACKAGE CUSTOMERS ONLY $50/month, all other access is via BACKPACK with 24hr response time SLA (Service Level Agreement)

    You create a dummy IM account which you discard after a month.
    Current customers get forwarded to the new one, others, well, they do not!


    .... I could go on all day and pick this apart but I wont! :)

    Keep your head up, and dont be a whiny little byatch!
    • CSharpSauce, on 11/25/2007, -6/+2How are people digging this down? This is advice is much better then the article. It provides a method to protect you (the freelancer) and still satisfy a potential customer. If i was a client i'd go with this guy before i'd talk to the article author. You're a professional.. that means respecting your clients when you turn down an unreasonable request.
    • budsstud26, on 11/25/2007, -0/+1Hey dumbass, services provided to non-profits are NEVER tax-deductible. I should turn you in and get my 10% bounty ;-)
    • oksure, on 11/25/2007, -0/+4I don't think the original article suggested being rude to the customer -- just that there are a number of things you must beware of to avoid losing your shirt. "Steve" seems to have questionable ethics IMO.
    • computergod, on 11/25/2007, -0/+2Ah, yes, the BOFH version.
    • mabhatter, on 11/26/2007, -0/+1but the "no" still stands in each case. The article never says be rude, just know when the request isn't going to turn into work. A lot of this is simple professionalism. You would get the same answers talking to a lawyer or plumber.

      The idea of pre-design work should be moot. Like many other people said, you should have some body of work that is 100% your own to show what you can do. Perhaps for many web designers getting that initial work is difficult as clever web designs don't exist in a vacuum and it takes doing work to have good examples for your customers to do.
      Many of the other things fall in the same category of working like a profssional rather than a talented newbie. You have to have limits on how you will support your customers, but the goal is to make money for YOU to spend during your time not working... never forget that! Things like support and hosting are nice, but if they're not YOUR talents, outsource them, because YOUR time is money and valuable to YOU first.

      I think the main issue is that web design/programming still doesn't have a "industry standard" like doctors or lawyers, or even insurance agents or bankers do. It's missing the idea of having letterhead, standardized contracts, and offfice hours like "real" businesses do. Because of that many small business owners take advantage of that "wild west" mentality to beat up on people, and in small business, that is very real.. my experience with small business (but still multi million dollars/year) is that owners egos are more of a negotiation problem than the actual contract terms. They like to be in a position of power over their "vendors" because they are often in zero position of power with their customers and treat their vendors like they THINK they're being treated.
  • monkeestylee, on 11/24/2007, -0/+1great list, most of us have probably made half these mistakes already.
  • tmc1, on 11/24/2007, -2/+1We all lose our shirts once.
  • Bravocowboy, on 11/24/2007, -1/+5A client got ahold of my personal IM name. Worst thing ever.
    • rtphokie, on 11/25/2007, -0/+3Perhaps you should switch to an IM client that supports blocking
  • Bravocowboy, on 11/24/2007, -5/+1A client got ahold of my personal IM name. Worst thing ever.
  • L0g1X, on 11/24/2007, -0/+1"Can you give me a discount? The project will be a huge boost for your portfolio and I'll give you more projects to do in the future".
    Just say no.
  • simplistics06, on 11/24/2007, -10/+4NEVER choose an Indian person to do a job online. They may have all the technical skills but nothing else every Indian person I've tried to use has been a total ***** up.
    • mfelkins, on 11/24/2007, -1/+4Wow. I forget that even in 2007 there are still ignorant people in the world.
      • simplistics06, on 11/24/2007, -3/+1You can disregard it as ignorance if you want but you can't have an opinion unless you've tried them for yourself *****
        • mfelkins, on 11/24/2007, -1/+4 I actually do know Indian people who are good at their jobs of doing online work. Making a comment that all Indians screw things up is just plain racist. You probably think all Arabs are terrorist too.
          • simplistics06, on 11/24/2007, -3/+1Nope I don't have anything against Indians my best friend is Indian just the ***** work Indians do from over seas on websites. They have bad communication skills, rarely follow through and I've had a 100 percent fail rate with them that can't be just coincidence. When I stopped hiring Indians all of a sudden my projects got done.
    • CSharpSauce, on 11/25/2007, -0/+1This is just Badly phrased.... Horrible actually. I have seen just as bad work come from the Philippines, china, and Russia. Anytime you pay less for something, you can expect to get less. There are several factories over seas that are only slightly less then the price you'll pay someone *here* who will produce quality work..
    • computergod, on 11/25/2007, -1/+2He's bashing offshore outsourcing of coding, not a race of people.
      http://thedailywtf.com/ If you want examples of the kind of code you might see churned out by those places.

      One example:
      http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/A-Little-More ...
    • chaparyan, on 11/25/2007, -0/+1If he's just bashing outsourced coding, he should have phrased it better. looking like a racist ***** isn't going to get you dugg
  • TheSkinsFactory, on 11/24/2007, -9/+6I don't know who the author is and what their credentials are, but take what they write with a grain of salt. I feel I can offer a retort on some of what he says since i'm in the industry and my company's clients are companies like Microsoft and Disney. Let's go through some of what he says....

    1. I agree. I don't do free mock-ups for clients. We're too busy and we have a HUGE portfolio. But if you don't have a large portfolio and you do have the time, you might want to consider it. When you first start out, if you don't have an ample portfolio, you may have to do a little work for free to get the job. BUT, make sure you sign contracts with them stating you are not giving up the intellectual property rights to your marker comp/mock-up. Protect yourself always.

    2. I don't agree. You're not selling TVs, you're selling your talent. Not every company/person you come into contact with will have a mighty budget. Don't sell yourself short by any means, but do be flexible. That person you threw a discount too could end up being a client for life.

    3. We don't handle this type of stuff so i'm not going to comment on it.

    4. He's right, you can't steal or rip another site but you can derive inspiration from one without stealing.

    5. We don't deal with this one either.

    6. I have no idea what's he's rambling about for this one. I originally assumed he was talking about the client having an idea about the client's project but i'm not sure.

    7. IM accounts have made it easy to block unwanted users, so if they're your client, you might want to give them your IM. There's no rule that says you have to answer every single IM all day and night from them.

    8. Always get a retainer (50% at least) so you're covered. One of the few things this guy said so far that made any sense.

    9. You can charge rush fees for rush jobs. The author of this blog is way too negative and i really doubt he's half as successful as he claims with his professional attitude. If i was his client, i would have told him to...

    10. This depends if the job is a "work for hire". He's talking about coding and we don't deal with that all that much, but what i tell clients is "they own the work product as a whole when we're done", but they do not own colors, textures or lighting techniques.

    Overall i think this author is full of s**t. I'm not sure why this was promoted to the top of Digg. He's negative and seems to have very little to say that's valuable. Before i get flamed, here's a list of my company's clients, you tell me if i have the experience to comment or not: http://www.theskinsfactory.com/skinsfactory/?page= ...

    The bottom line is no two projects or clients are the same. Be flexible without selling yourself short. Saying "no" all the time is bad. I don't care what this guy says. The client that hears "yes" more than "no" will be a client for life. Just my opinion.
    • CSharpSauce, on 11/25/2007, -1/+3First off I agree with the things you said.

      My question for you, What exactly have you done for the companies listed on your page? Have you acquired permission to use their logos?
      I'm a programmer for one of the companies on there, which i know does most of their web development in house..
      • TheSkinsFactory, on 11/25/2007, -2/+3Our clients know we have their logos on our client page. It's a standard industry practice. We do mostly user interface design not web development. But you don't have to specialize in just web design to know that what the author on that blog was saying was wrong and the wrong way to deal with clients. Clients are clients no matter what you're doing for them.
    • GeorgeClayton, on 11/25/2007, -0/+36: This refers to clients who try to make partnerships in an attempt to not have to pay up front (or at all). It's similar to some of his other points.
      10: The context is freelance work.
  • phrozen755, on 11/24/2007, -0/+1REMEMBER: Present yourself well, revise what you'll say before the questions are asked..and most importantly: Take cash as much as you can, checks as little as you can, anything else (unless its what you want) DON'T DO IT.

    After a little trial and error you'll quickly find what you will and will NOT say again with your next client!
    • zammit, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1practice makes perfect... everyone messes up w/ their first handful of clients, live 'n learn
  • fLUx1337, on 11/24/2007, -0/+1Although I agree with all that for experienced developers, if its your first time selling your skills, you will need to make some good business friends which will likely recommend you. The best way to do this is to do free simple mock ups of the site layout....if its good you will more likely get the job, and they will hopefully know that you didn't have to do that.

    But there are 2 real types of independent (i.e. not from a corporation) people, people like Kevin Rose - knows what he wants, and he knows that a high quality site like Digg isn't designed and developed overnight - and then there's the people who haven't got a clue, they use a computer, but haven't a clue how it works, they just want to be an entrepreneur, "I want to be bigger than eBay" kinda thing. STAY AWAY!
    • GeorgeClayton, on 11/25/2007, -0/+1And they'll refer you to plenty of other people, who similarly like free/cheap work!
      • zammit, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1Bob says, "Hey, Joe said you gave him a break on the last site you did for him... I'll get that too right, since I know him?"
        Joe says, "Hey, did Bob call you? How about on the next site you give me a bigger discount for referring him?"
  • Governator88, on 11/24/2007, -0/+2I have 5 years experience as a freelance web developer... all I can add is just don't burn a bridge.
    Every opportunity has potential and don't turn it in to a negative because you want to go camping over a weekend instead of opening a new door for yourself.
  • MentalV, on 11/24/2007, -0/+2#1 is the one that brings me the most clients! Are you kidding me? Every single small business is scared of actually getting into a contract without knowing what they are getting... 2 hours of work doing a test design not only usually signs the deal off, but I also include the design on the contract as "the website will be built based on the design included" and that way I stop the eternal design changes back and forward. If they don't like the design to begin with then there are few probabilities they will like something I will ever do.

    If they want to change the design, half way or at the end of the project, then they know they will have to pay quite a bit more as the design is already written in the contract. Not only that, but nobody actually does this around here so when they ask for prices all around and they have a visual representation of what the website will look like the choice is a lot easier for them, even if my price is a bit higher. 2-3 hours of work that can secure a project? Well worth it. Never had a client use the design with another programmer as I include the "TEST ONLY. TEMPLATE PROPERTY OF XXXXXX" watermark on all tests I send.
    • mabhatter, on 11/26/2007, -0/+1he was addressing the idea that many companies want to gather "pitches" from designers, then shop their favorite pitch to the cheapest designer. There are many companies that think of design as a "contest" and they'll pick their favorite as a winner... and often want to "own" all the entries so they don't have to pay you. Even with strong contracts and watermarks attached that the design is not to be shared, once it's out the door, it's out the door, and as an individual or small team you can't restrain them from using it... it's not worth the lawyer fee up front cost.
      A better approach might be to put a design with your branding on your portfolio site and direct them to that page. You are not using their information or submiting anything and it remains 100% your work. It also shows you're willing to respond to requests. Think of the guy that makes printed ink pens and other company labeled stuff.. they give out samples, but the samples have THEIR name on them, so even though it's free, it's still getting them recognition. How to do the same thing in web design?
    • zammit, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1supply a low-res version of a mockup or bring a printed version to an in-person meeting
  • 2tec, on 11/24/2007, -0/+2Obligatory NO!SPEC post ~ http://www.no-spec.com/
  • 0KonTroL0, on 11/24/2007, -0/+3Never do any work in front of the client either, I learned that one the had way. His DSL died and it was ALL MY FAULT. :(
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