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Evidence of MPAA Bittorrent Tracking?

forum.mininova.org — These forum posts from mininova suggest that the MPAA might be using fake torrents of "the wedding crashers" and "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" to track download activity. See proof for yourself at the pirate bay, or seedler; look at the amount of seeds and then at the amount of successful d/ls (none).

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  • zartan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0dont jump the gun...pirates bay has a lot of european users and many fake torrents...doesnt mean the mpaa has been tracking even if they were they cant sue you for downloading a part of the movie ...
    • plutpwnium, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Yes they can. In the same way you can apprehend someone for intent to sell, you can also get someone for attempting to pirate, granted its alot easier in the court-room if you had waited for the person to follow through... its sort of putting all your eggs in one basket.
  • WackyT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0If it is true, how dare they try to protect their intellectual property. Although, it's probably just kiddie crackers pulling one on you fools.
  • tehsuck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Is it unlawful to download fake torrents of copywritten material? I'd like to see them try to litigate based on the fact you downloaded a fake copy of something.
  • psyonide, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"If it is true, how dare they try to protect their intellectual property."

    Dammit, you got in the sarcastic quip before I could!
  • Calculon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yeah, try buying or selling fake drugs and get busted. They will charge you as if you had the "real goods"
  • Billdozer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0THey probably cant get you for actually downloading it, but for 'intent to download and distribute'. I doubt they'll build a case from it though. Its probably for them to get an idea of how bad it is.
  • Duston, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I think they could make a case against you by pointing out you had no way of knowing the file was fake before the download.

    Regardless of their tactics I don't know a single person who could stand up to them in court. They would crush anyone with their deep pockets and legal might. Moral of the story, don't steal movies on the Internet.
  • joerao, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Install Peer Guardian or SafePeer Plugin for Azureus if you want to block these guys.

    http://azureus.sourceforge.net/plugin_details.php?plugin=safepeer
  • ksgant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"If it is true, how dare they try to protect their intellectual property."

    I saw both "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" and "The Wedding Crashers"...trust me, their ain't anything intellectual at all about these movies.
  • ppflea, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0^^lol!
  • SupaDawg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i wouldnt worry too much. I've had trackers have problems befroe. I've been getting a connection error on the silver wedding crashers @ pirate bay... could just be a bad tracker.
  • bigboludo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Peerguardian and Safepeer will only keep you safe from known IP addresses. So if an MPAA employee goes home on his personal connection and gets in on a torrent download that you are involved in, he's going to get your IP address and take it to work with him the next day. The only "safe" way is to go use your neighbor's wi-fi. And if he comes out and wonders what the hell you're doing with a laptop in his driveway in the middle of the night, leave, and then here's the real important part: DON'T COME BACK! or you might get arrested!
  • DonWilson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"So if an MPAA employee goes home on his personal connection and gets in on a torrent download that you are involved in" - Wouldn't that be illegal as well? We should work for the MPAA and be able to download anything we want. ;)
  • scrubadub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0this boarders on entrapment. Along the same lines as an undercover cop can't come up to you offering illegal goods, you have to initiate the transaction.

    Also I don't understand why they would do this when they could make a stronger case in court by just recording people's IP addresses on real torrents. It would save them the whole entrapment argument
    • plutpwnium, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1It isnt entrapment because you were going to download on your free will and the idea wasn't put into your head originally by the MPAA. You were going to commit the crime whether or not the MPAA had anything to do with it. If you were just browsing the web and saw an AD that said "You absolutely have to download this to keep your computer secure", and it was a Wedding Crashers movie, that would be considered entrapment.
  • nmoline, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Don't Worry even if the MPAA tracks you for downloading a fake torrent that is not illegal. You did not download the intellectual propety you downloaded a blank. Therefore they can not sue you for infringing on their copyright protection when a blank torrent is not copyrighted. Am I correct?
  • shit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Lock it up."
    "You lock it up."
    "Lock it up!"
    "LOCK IT UP!"

    OH MAN! I could never download that movie because the preview alone split my sides open! They keep repeating the same phrase to one another! It's comedy gold!

    In short, ***** movies should be free.
  • ncblazek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Even if this is seeded by the MPAA and it actually is real they still can't legally do anything. First of all, If I downloaded Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and it was theirs, I technically didnt break any laws...I DID NOT DOWNLOAD A MOVIE. Secondly, they can't prosecute you unless they get your name from your ISP and they don't give them up easily. Even if they do get your name, the still violated your privacy by tracking what you download. Thats a major invasion of my privacy....

    What do you guys think?
  • bonlebon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0If you are using torrents to download either of those movies, you don't deserve jail, you deserve a kick in the .......
  • mpdman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0sounds like it...

    Of course it would make more sense if the MPAA and RIAA instead of bringing more lawsuits simply flooded the networks with fake files..
  • Jammerdelray, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0anyone who is dumb enough to download a major movie deserves to get the punishment....just go out and fork out 7.00 for a previewed one at blockbuster lol
  • dandiemer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0or find a friend with netflix and a good DVD burner set up.
  • TetrisKid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I didn't pay to see these movies cause they looked awful... why would I waste the bandwidth?
  • DWatch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Paranoia rules!

    Seriously... downloading a movie is a civil offense in the U.S. They can't 'prosecute' you, or charge you with 'intent', both are criminal terms. The most they could do is request your real name and address from the ISP, send you a cease and desist letter, then bring a lawsuit against you.

    If the **AA is actually seeding this movie, then its probably random bytes, and they are just trying to get a handle on how prolific BT is, compared to P2P apps like Sharezza or Kaza. They cannot bring a lawsuit against you for downloading junk data. Even if the movie were real, they were offering the movie, they own the copyrights, so therefore, you have just legally downloaded from the owners of the movie, since they are offering it to begin with.

    Like the above post said; its probably not the **AA, but some jerk messing with everyone, or a faulty tracker, or the seeder has a corrupt hard drive, not allowing anyone to get the final pieces of the movie. Or it could be the **AA trying to sour everyone on BT by putting out bogus files, like they do on other P2P networks. Also, you cannot trust the stats on Pirate Bay's site. They are totally dependent on the tracker for download data, and its often wrong.
  • sonks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0news? These torrents have been up for months, some big release movie with some OBH UHSI OISU MHA tag stamped onto it. They seemed to brighten up a lil, before they would have seeders and downloaders in the 100,000s.
  • redsrule2500, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0How in the world can they sue you for downloading a fake movie?
  • Jaymoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Exactly... Police can't arrest you for "thinking" about robbing a bank...
  • eclectro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The mpaa/riaa have a bunch of lackeys in india and around to track downloaders. So this shouldn't really be news to anyone. Safepeer is great but I'm sure the *aa know about it.

    So much as suing for downloading a fake movie goes, it doesn't matter. It will still cost a small fortune to defend.
  • lucky2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0DWatch is right on. If the copyright holder offers the movie for download, then they are giving it away. This means you are not stealing anything.
  • prh99, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Looks like a bunch of speculation without much in the way of facts. One gets a bad file and automaticly the MPAA is responsible? That wouldn't be my first conclusion.

    "How in the world can they sue you for downloading a fake movie?"

    They can show intent, but that won't win them a lawsuit. Especially if they're the ones offering the fake. It's like the people who rename harmless picture to look like kiddie porn then record and publish the IP addresses of those who download (like Zeropaid use to do on the Wall of Shame). The police can't do anything to those people because downloading those fakes isn't a crime.
  • Cheirdal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Proof" presented on a forum isn't exactly damning evidence.
  • Hawk2064, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yeah but saying "If the copyright holder offers the movie for download, then they are giving it away. This means you are not stealing anything." Doesn't make sense, because the movie, at this point in time, would be 'bootlegged'. It's not available on DVD, VHS, PSP, whatever yet so the only way to obtain it would have been through illegal means, ie: Video Camera in a theater. And I think the big double A's have better things to do with their time than making fake stuff to annoy use, but I may be wrong.

    On another note, "So if an MPAA employee goes home on his personal connection and gets in on a torrent download that you are involved in, he's going to get your IP address and take it to work with him the next day." Seriously, who takes that much of an interest in busting 15 year old kids that they'd actually fire up the ole home computer to try to catch people on their free time?? Really, think of how much of a boring job that has to be when you are in the office getting paid for it, why do it at home?
  • nickdynamite, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0stealing is wrong. so very very worng. bittorrent users should all be shot. or thrown in jail - all of them. hollywood needs its millions.
  • jbmicastorm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"'intent to download and distribute'" That's just funny. Good one billdozer.
  • Pile, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The cable companies, like Cox and Comcast have a history of coughing up subscriber information without due process. The telcos (providers of DSL) are much more regulated and vigilant in this area when it comes to protecting the privacy of their customers. Think about that when choosing an ISP.
  • Hawk2064, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yippie, now i'm glad I have Comcast.
  • Parks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0How can peer guardian be sure about the ip addresses it has in their list. Someone would have to get busted and then give the arrested party their ip address and then that party would have to contact peer guardian to give them the ip addresses wouldn't they? So this poses 2 questions. 1) If this isn't punishable by law then where are these blocked ip's coming from? and 2) How can peer guardian be sure about any ip address let alone announce that its almost 100% safe?
  • PacoBell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@parks: Well, you almost got it right. Normally, when a person gets "busted", whether that be just a CnD or a fullblown lawsuit, they accused will look over their access logs and narrow down the potential suspects to the time of the alleged infringement. They then submit this information to the peerguardian folks and the data is correlated with the aggregated data from other people. Eventually, a pattern will emerge and the likely IP addresses/ranges will be placed in the filter. Sometimes, the placement isn't immediate, but used on an experimental basis to gather more information on the frequency of hits compared to the frequency of litigation. Anyhoo, that's roughly how it all goes down.
  • GrAsSmOkEr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Why download fake movies in the internet when you can easily buy a pirated copy at flea markets? It cost only less than 1/4 of the original price and without the headaches. Just sell it to your friends after watchin it, hehe, sorry bout the post, im drunk! HEHE!
  • JackDoyle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"THey probably cant get you for actually downloading it, but for 'intent to download and distribute'. I doubt they'll build a case from it though. Its probably for them to get an idea of how bad it is."

    I don't see how they could get you for intent... People intend to do things all the time, but unless they do them, they are guilty of nothing.

    Now, an attempt on the other hand, such as attempted murder is another story. However, you can't compare the two. Attempting to murder someone and then finding out that you stabbed/shot/strangled/poisoned a cardboard cutout of the person isn't a crime at all. That is what this would compare to.
  • JackDoyle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Even if this is seeded by the MPAA and it actually is real they still can't legally do anything. First of all, If I downloaded Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and it was theirs, I technically didnt break any laws...I DID NOT DOWNLOAD A MOVIE."

    Actually, the way I see it... they offered it for download. You could argue that you knew it was the MPAA, and you knew they were authorized by the movie industry to offer the content. If it is offered by the copyright holder for free, then it is not illegal, right?

    The only argument you should need to make is that you downloaded it KNOWING that it was being offered by the MPAA themselves, so you assumed they wanted you to have it and that they were authorized to give it to you.
  • jmwhalen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I did get a letter from my ISP for downloading this file. Basically they told me of the illegalities and said i must delete it at once. It was based around the allowing other people to download it from me, rather than me downloading it.
  • jmfx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm not worried or anything but all you ppl who are saying its just some "kiddie crackers pulling one on you fools" its not. I received a letter from comcast as well as 4 of my friends but it's also recorded in your my account section on the comcast site as well. lol the funny thing is ... I'm switching to 15mb up/down fiber optic internet from at&t in a week.... and they aren't trying to "crack down" on piracy like stupid comcast.
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