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BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

badvista.fsf.org — The Free Software Foundation (FSF) today launched BadVista.org, a campaign with a twofold mission of exposing the harms inflicted on computer users by the new Microsoft Windows Vista and promoting free software alternatives that respect users' security and privacy rights.

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  • cmister, on 10/12/2007, -13/+34Dan Lyons, Forbes.com - "FSF announces that their GNU IP has found its way into Microsoft's new Vista operating system, and they are promising legal action and a happy pay day for shareholders in the free software movement. When I contacted Steve Ballmer at Redmond, he declared "its just FUD put out by the FSF". He also claims that it was the FSF behind SCO all the time."
    • backasswards, on 10/12/2007, -9/+22@cmister
      Perhaps you could post a link to that "announcement." I know nothing of any threatened lawsuit from fsf towards Microsoft. Forbes is THE WORST new source for free software. As an example of how terrible of a job they do, read this story.
      http://tinyurl.com/ylg3ut
      There are so many gripes I have with this story it's not worth listing them all.
      So my advice is that, even if that is a story on Forbes, readers should disregard it.
    • Reidtheweed01, on 10/12/2007, -42/+27Im using Vista right now.


      and im loving it, this radeon x300 runs areo perfect
    • backasswards, on 10/12/2007, -20/+3i meant to say "news source", not "new source" :)
    • Ramtech, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17@Reidtheweed01..

      yes i'm loving it too... i've already tweaked the *****.. and i'm thinking about making a release of my own where i'll strip it down...
    • flag564, on 10/12/2007, -17/+46Will there be a BadOSX.org too?
    • Odweaver, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17@backasswards
      That woosh noise is the sound of the joke going over your head.
    • luciferin, on 10/12/2007, -22/+12flag5664:

      There will be one when either you make one, or apple begins encroaching on user rights. Apple doesn't have product activation, CD-Keys, a Genuine "Advantage" program, or require you to use DRM with their hardware (it IS optional). Get an education before you bash something, you sound like a fool.
    • Wootery, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16@Flag564

      That would have the fanboys up in arms - it would have to be "BadOS X.org".
    • Ramtech, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5@luciferin

      I think he was being sarcastic...
      i guess some people don't know what a joke is..
    • chris9902, on 10/12/2007, -8/+26"Apple doesn't have product activation, CD-Keys, a Genuine "Advantage" program, or require you to use DRM with their hardware (it IS optional)."

      maybe because OS X only works on Apple hardware. That's even worse.
    • mfratt, on 10/12/2007, -22/+14Flag564 is a troll, I have him blocked.
    • consonance, on 10/12/2007, -6/+23@luciferin
      You realizes that it all arises from Microsoft trying to curtail the use of pirated versions of Vista? It all stems from Vista's ability to be installed on ANY computer, leading to a high market share for Vista. With computers becoming cheaper every day, Microsoft is not taking piracy lightly.

      And then there's Apple. Apple makes sure that their OS will only run on certified Mac hardware. Apple also sells their computers at a premium, both factors leading to a smaller marketshare. Take note: Searching isoHunt.com for "Windows XP" returns a few thousand seeders, with over 10,000-20,000 downloads of complete XP distributions; searching isoHunt for "OSX" produces not even a hundred seeders, with perhaps not even a hundred downloads. It's safe to say that 200x as many people who download OSX download Windows XP.

      So if you have the blow that will be the be all and the end all, I'd sure love to hear it. But as it stands, Microsoft has the most pirated product in the world, and (ironically) Microsoft is innovating new ways to stop pirates from cracking Vista.

      Of course, I really don't see the problem with entering a CD key. Have you ever bought any professional software at all? Photoshop comes with a CD key. Cakewalk Sonar and Fruity Loops Studio come with a CD key. Hell, Blizzard games all come with CD keys! CD keys are nothing new. And when CD keys can only be used to check for authorized copies, it's hard to argue that CD keys violate your privacy.

      WGA is more questionable, because WGA, from what I know, can send back details about Windows. There is, of course, the possibility for evil use. The WGA is used to check for authenticity before providing updates. Microsoft needs to make money to survive; of course Microsoft wants to give users of unauthorized versions an incentive to go legal.

      Now, DRM is downright wrong; I will be the first to tell you. I have never bought from iTunes, Yahoo!, Rhapsody, etc. But it's not like Vista will examine your files and tell Santa if you're naughty or if you're nice. I haven't read any reports about Vista's DRM preventing any functionality. (And believe me, if that happens, I will categorically cry, Foul!)

      I reiterate: If you ever find that magic solution, I'd love to hear it. Until then, I will count your comment as erroneous.
    • h2d2, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17I occasionally use Linux, and usually support the FSF's views... but this is some real FUD by the FSF. I mean what are they thinking? Are they scared that MS has finally got it to right and Vista will keep corporations and users away from migrating to the Linux OS? May be.

      And please don't compare installing OSX to installing Windows, because the later can be done on a gazillion different hardware configurations while OSX would only work on about 3% of the world's computer systems. So obviously Apple has a significantly less risk of piracy and therefore not any real restrictions.
    • GliTCH82, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9This article buried as lame. I like open source software and I think this is a bad move for its cause.
    • rye134, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14@luciferin

      If OSX was worth stealing Apple would need to have product activation also.
  • bigtomrodney, on 10/12/2007, -24/+52As a long term Linux user, it really makes me angry to see FSF getting involved with this kind of FUD. This makes them no better than those they oppose. Why aren't we 'selling' Free software based on its merits? Why do we need to scaremonger? Every time the FSF launches another press release I want to distance myself more from them.
    • johnsu01, on 10/12/2007, -33/+23Which part of it is FUD? It's not our intention to scaremonger. As the campaign develops, we will be in fact promoting free software based on its merits (assuming that you count ethical concerns among merits). But is it really FUD to say that Vista implements a lot of new restrictions on the freedom of users?

    • backasswards, on 10/12/2007, -30/+16@bigtomrodney
      Perhaps you should see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear%2C_uncertainty_and_doubt
      In my opinion, the FSF campaign is more fact than FUD.

      P.S. You probably meant GNU + Linux when you referred to 'Linux.'
    • bigtomrodney, on 10/12/2007, -10/+31No, but what I would say is the purpose of the FSF is to promote and nurture Free Software. If their job is propaganda - whether it is factual or not - they I want nothing to do with it. The likes of Linux can stand on its own merits without this kind of tit-for-tat behaviour.
    • bigtomrodney, on 10/12/2007, -8/+24"In my opinion, the FSF campaign is more fact than FUD."

      FUD isn't necessarily the opposite of fact. You can spread Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt with fact. My point is that doing this does not help the movement. It just becomes a mirror of what we're fighting.
    • backasswards, on 10/12/2007, -21/+10@bigtomrodney
      Unless you are speaking about an operating system kernel...
      s/Linux/GNU+Linux/
      :)

      P.S. FUD is misleading information (factual or not, I'll give you that), but I don't think that the badvista campaign is misleading anyone.
    • KWhat, on 10/12/2007, -12/+4For all that windows lovin' I keep seeing, or that M$ keeps telling me is there, that site went down really fast.
    • bias, on 10/12/2007, -18/+28Fanboy's Logic:
      Microsoft uses FUD = EVIL
      Linux Community uses FUD = SAINT
    • Ratteler, on 10/12/2007, -23/+14It's not scaremongering if it's true.
      Vista is like being charged $400 to put on a slave collar and be sold at auctions to the highest bidder.

      It's about time some one took the responsibility to try and inform the public.

      Of course the Microzelots will have to Digg down and bury all comments that reveal the truth about Vista.

      I would rather rule in hell, than serve in Vista.
    • ImTheDarkcyde, on 10/12/2007, -5/+25"Vista is like being charged $400 to put on a slave collar and be sold at auctions to the highest bidder."

      I wasn't aware i was being charged for Vista, i kinda thought i was paying for it voluntarily.
    • Ratteler, on 10/12/2007, -17/+9"I wasn't aware i was being charged for Vista, i kinda thought i was paying for it voluntarily."

      Until it comes forcibly bundled with a new computer, or some back door developer deal gets some other piece of software you need for work to only function in Vista.

      Now that you're aware you can go back to serving your massah.

      I would rather rule in hell, than serve in Vista.
    • Cougaboy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Ratteler -

      You do realize that the quote you're using at the end of your posts goes "I'd rather rule in hell than serve in heaven," right?

      So by substituting Vista at the end, you're saying Vista is heaven...I just thought you'd like to know.
    • neko, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8@bigtomrodney: I totally agree. I love Linux, but this sort of crap gives us a bad name. I mean really, going after Vista? Yes, it panders to the RIAA and MPAA's increasingly unreasonable demands, but I'd much prefer the FSF concentrated their efforts on more important things like software patents.

      Vista is going to be deployed en masse no matter what, it's up to the users to figure out that it's restricting what they can and can't do. People have to want to escape the matrix, you can't just unplug them.
    • Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4So if someone presenting facts about something makes a person scared, uncertain or doubtful about something... it's FUD? Does that mean that FUD is bad? I mean if the product (Vista) is so bad that it scares people etc... then they should probably know the facts shouldn't they?
    • venom8599, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@backasswards

      Will you please get over the Linux vs. GNU\Linux crap too. Call it whatever you want, nobody really cares, especially if you want keep bitching like RMS himself.
    • Ratteler, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@cougaboy

      "Milton's Satan is almost admirable for his unwillingness to serve in Heaven and accepting his resulting role."

      The Microzelots who are probably paid by M$ to troll these boards and digg down comments against mother M$ are tireless in claiming that Vista will be the only choice because of market dominance and mainstream application support.

      My quote shows my willingness to do without the "good" elements that come from the Windows platform rather than submit to the rules of computings "god".

      The "hell" of the less supported GNU/Linux is preferable to being relegated to some one who is passively ALLOWED to use my own computer as I see fit.

      You can bow and scrape before you're lord high OS written for the media industry and government to control you. I choose not to, even if it means having less than I did before.

      It is better to rule in Hell, than to serve Vista.
  • siddhartha211, on 10/12/2007, -33/+9Great! GO FSF!
  • Zm3r3, on 10/12/2007, -34/+20DRM is bad

    I'm a mac fanboy and I don't buy music from iTunes because of DRM (so you can't digg me down for that!!). Bits and Bites should be free. Computers, the internet, they all started free and so should they have remained (ok maybe not computers but . . .). Piracy shouldn't be outlawed, it should be commended. When Hitchcock was filming, when Led Zeppelin were recording, when Warhol was creating, were they thinking:

    "Hmm, every time someone enjoys my work, I'm gonna make a ***** load of £$£$ of the *****. Ha."

    I'd say . . . NO

    Support Anti-DRM org's. Download your favorite bands new album, torrent the new blockbuster and share all information you know. Take back what is rightfully ours and one day it will all be Free
    • mancat, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18"Take back what is rightfully ours and one day it will all be Free"

      No, it won't. Be grateful that there is free software available to you, but don't fool yourself into thinking that the entire software market is going to dissolve. Software has not always been free.
    • Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+28Considering the state of music I sincerely hope they stop producing.
    • Poco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14I am as much against DRM as the next guy. But what I want is to be able to buy music with no DRM, not free (as in beer) music. Until then I will get DRM-free music however I can (either buy buying CDs or downloading it free. What we need to get across is that DRM actually makes me less likely to buy their music. DRM just makes me want to pirate music.
    • CBTF, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9"If we pirate everything they will stop producing. "

      Given how popular piracy is (dare I say at an all time high) I haven't really seen any productions hindered.
    • culbeda, on 10/12/2007, -9/+14"DRM is bad"

      That's like saying "Fire is bad".

      It's all about the application. Should you be able to play music you download on anything you own? Sure. Should you have free license to rip a digital copy of a movie that you've PPV'd, rented, etc. Not really.

      DRM is what allows things like VoD, PPV, etc. to even exist right now. The studios don't relish the idea of giving their content away for free, so they demand that DRM be included to protect their copyrights.

      And no, I don't work for a studio, RIAA, MPAA, etc. I think they're overly restrictive like everyone else. But I have worked in the cable industry and I know what we'd be missing if there was no DRM. And believe me... it's a hell of a lot.
    • carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4@mikew440, i agree that music needs to be sold sans-drm, but you miss the point.

      people will always seek to express themselves, the many art oriented websites, people who spend huge amounts of time and effort on works which others may or may not enjoy will always seek to do so. be it deviantart, the countless myspace bands (the ones just seeking to be known and enjoyed, not be picked up by a label and made rich), or independent film projects (of which i've worked on several and always lost money doing), hell even the OSS community's art of their software and the beauty of their purpose prove that people will continue to create no matter if they get $16.99 for their cd, $21.99 for their dvd, or 30 bucks for every print of their art they sell.

      Just having people acknowledge that the thing you love doing is something they love seeing or hearing is reason enough for people to create, and if they can make enough money to make them able to create more than they otherwise would, all the better.
    • KWhat, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6"If we pirate everything they will stop producing."

      They will stop producing, however, producing will not stop. We (as in humans) have had music from the dawn of time, every culture has it regardless of world standing and technological sophistication. I think its a bit presumptuous to think that I can put an end to music by downloading it.
    • sundancekid503, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18"Support Anti-DRM org's. Download your favorite bands new album, torrent the new blockbuster and share all information you know. Take back what is rightfully ours and one day it will all be Free"

      That's a ridiculous statement. Software development is hard work, why do some people act like it's inherently evil to get paid for it? So if I spent thousands and thousands of hours to develop a cool software product you think it's "rightfully yours?".

      There's nothing wrong with making money, there's nothing wrong with selling a product. There's nothing wrong with free software. There's nothing wrong with trying to make money off software.
    • cmdrNacho, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5"If we pirate everything they will stop producing. "
      do you really think because people won't be getting paid, that software, music , sports will stop. People do things just for the love of doing things. Yes its better when we can get paid for our efforts, but you are wrong to think that. A lot of open source projects are started just out of interest and people collaborating. It wont stop.
      "Should you have free license to rip a digital copy of a movie that you've PPV'd, rented, etc. Not really."
      Actually Yes!!.. For a monthly fee I pay cable.. but what about all the unused time that I pay for. I should be able to watch whats available on cable when I want at any time. And movies and digital copies are a new technology that the industry really needs to learn how to deal with. If you want people to pay offer something extra or unique so its worth paying for. Stop holding on to a dying business model.

      And I do think you probably work for them

    • ImTheDarkcyde, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10"Download your favorite bands new album, torrent the new blockbuster and share all information you know. Take back what is rightfully ours and one day it will all be Free"

      you're a stupendous dumbass, if it was rightfully yours, why arent you making anything?

      i dare you, DARE YOU, to produce one thing that any of us would listen to, watch, give the slightest bit of attention to. I want you to spend your life doing this, it should be your full time job. when you're done and you've put all that work into it, take comfort in knowing that you won't see a single cent for anything you just did, because we're all just going to torrent it

      people here in the 'real world' don't work for free, we get paid money, money that comes from sales. when someone doesn't pay for our products, we obviously don't get paid. Sure hollywood is still raking in millions, but using that as an excuse is like going to a dinner party and not bringing anything because 'everyone else was already bringing something'
    • Ratteler, on 10/12/2007, -8/+6""DRM is bad"

      That's like saying "Fire is bad"."

      No it's more like saying a cast system, or slavery is bad.

      DRM is a violation of the Consumers rights. ALWAYS!!! It's a scheme to charge you multiple times for something you've already paid for.

      What's worse is we are not given a choice. It's been suck into the media we bought like a carcinogenic food additive sneaked into our food.


    • dkm201, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"There's nothing wrong with making money, there's nothing wrong with selling a product. There's nothing wrong with free software. There's nothing wrong with trying to make money off software."

      Or music, or movies, or TV!
    • GliTCH82, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1deleted due to a genius idea I had to solve the music industry problem
    • HyperHacker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Support Anti-DRM org's. Download your favorite bands new album, torrent the new blockbuster and share all information you know. Take back what is rightfully ours and one day it will all be Free"
      I don't know what group you're with or what websites you read but this is pretty much the opposite of all the anti-DRM organizations I know of. Attitudes like this scream to the media industries that DRM is a necessity because without it people like you will go about pirating everything. It's no wonder little progress has been made.
      The correct message is more along the lines of "We are not all criminals, we don't like paying multiple times for the same product and jumping through hoops to use it, and we're sick of all the arbitrary and pointless restrictions DRM entails." If we can convince media companies that DRM is unnecessary, then we might have a chance. You, on the other hand, are basically flat-out saying it IS necessary.

      Stopping DRM isn't about not paying for anything, it's about not paying for defective products. If I went out and paid good money for a video game console and it wouldn't work when connected to my VCR, I'd take it back and have it replaced/refunded no problem. If that VCR wouldn't play certain tapes that didn't have any problems themselves, it'd be replaced pretty quick too. But when I complain that my DVD player won't play foreign movies and won't work when connected to a VCR, they just tell me that's how it's supposed to be? It's the same defect, the only difference is it was put there on purpose. Why should I pay for a defective product, just because it's defective by design?
  • Sanchez, on 10/12/2007, -11/+13Was there all this commotion when XP came out?

    I use vista exclusively when at home, going back to XP is painful.
  • dpcamp, on 10/12/2007, -21/+4thats funny i didn't know vista was out yet...
    • tylergohl, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13It's available to MS Volume License Subscribers.
    • estvir, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9.. and TechNet/MSDN subscribers, Business users and a host of other people.. basically just not consumers.
  • xxdesmus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12ha ha ha ...this is funny.

    Someone sure sounds like a whiny brat...
  • IMustBeEmo, on 10/12/2007, -13/+13Maybe if they had a Vista server it would still be up.
  • danakin, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18I'm all for open source, and have made the switch to as many FOSS alternatives as I can, but this kinda crap is pretty counterproductive.

    You want open source to catch on? Play the good guys, don't antagonize.
  • gregduh, on 10/12/2007, -14/+6if software for my computer should be free, maybe i should get free food to use with my plates and silverware too
    • Poco, on 10/12/2007, -11/+13You miss-understand the meaning of the term "free".
    • TheG2, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12Who is this Miss. Understand? Is she single?
    • geekee, on 10/12/2007, -12/+7"You miss-understand the meaning of the term "free"."

      That's ok. Stallman doesn't know what the word means either.
    • ImTheDarkcyde, on 10/12/2007, -12/+8no, he doesn't misunderstand the meaning of the term free

      the linux community is the one who misunderstands it, they think 'free as in freedom' and all that BS

      when you sign a business contract, you're obligated to follow its conditions etc, guess what, same goes for a EULA. and guess what else, you DO get the 'freedom' to say no to MS's EULA, you DO get the 'freedom' to install whatever OS you want. the linux community is just bitching, and bitching, and bitching. they think that anything any real company makes should instantly belong to them etc, well welcome to the real world.
    • HonoredMule, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6That's like saying I'm "free" to choose between slavery and exile.

      True freedom is lack of any restrictions whatsoever, which is why it's a value that needs to be balanced to others such as safety and profitability. (I specifically chose values that would make sense whether we're talking about software/systems or other civil issues, because there shouldn't be a difference in said balance between digital and physical worlds.)

      Funny thing...in linux, I'm not "free" to have my operating system just work. I get to waste time fixing and rebuilding it 12 times a week.
    • HonoredMule, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Also, it's hardly fair to attribute FSF's bitching to the entire linux community. Although I'm not a big linux fan, many of my friends/colleagues who are still hate Stallman and his hippy ilk.
    • HyperHacker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You've got it backward. Go order some fast food, and you'll get a free plate and utensils. :-)
    • Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4"Funny thing...in linux, I'm not "free" to have my operating system just work. I get to waste time fixing and rebuilding it 12 times a week."

      Really? That's funny cos I used to do that on WinXP, but on Linux I just get down to work and not worry about scanning my computer or worrying that it may suddenly freeze up or something

      Maybe you should stop playing around the system and screwing it up?
    • HonoredMule, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If windows is breaking on you, I could say the same, since my 2k boxes and 2003 server box are solid as a rock 24/7. Linux on the other hand seems to have a strong aversion to me running programs, so ya, I guess I AM 'tinkering' it to death.

      God forbid there might be some factors causing different operating systems to work better for different people that have nothing to do with actively breaking the OS.
    • Wootery, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"True freedom is lack of any restrictions whatsoever", that's copycenter thinking - the copyleft (Linux, GPL) philosophy is "free software - but you have to keep it free".

      From a developer's pov, the GPL forces you to release your software under the very restrictive free licence (that makes sense to some) known as the GPL.
      It's all part of the "companies are evil" philosophy - they're against vendor lock-in, and instead want a free-software lock-in.
      Personally I do not consider mandatory freedom to be real freedom, but I digress.
  • spoonyluv, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12This is a huge mistake for the FSF - it should be promoting alternatives for their own merit rather than by demonizing the current market leader.

    Furthermore, one of the biggest 'punching bags' of this campaign - DRM - has little to do with Microsoft. DRM is an industry wide initiative that should be resisted at its source - content producers, not content distributers.

    I'm sure if Microsoft could get the content its user demand without DRM and without isolating itself from major content producers, they would do so in a heartbeat.
    • HyperHacker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The reason it has to do with MS is that Vista is chock full of DRM.
  • mykeyspace, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2haha it got dugg allready. site is down
  • crazybrit, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10I wish the site would load so I could see it before passing judgment, but I don't think this is the best idea. Making a site with a domain name like badvista.org makes it seem like someone's desperate for attention.
  • mdman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17I have been using Vista for quite some time and I like it.. no problems with it at all.
  • svicente, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9Oh well... so they are telling people to use free software by saying that "Vista is Bad". So they are copying typical US politicals campaigns where they tend to focus on the opponent demerits rather than rise for their own merit.

    I use Gentoo, I like it. But I also use Windows and think that it is best for fun purposes or even for some other stuff like photo editing (GIMP is really strange, PSP, PSD are far better, but then again they are paid and GIMP is not, I'll give you that...).
    I don't think this strategy is the best to get more people to use free software and free operating systems.

    BTW, Windows Vista Business is also available through MS Academic Alliance, I've got mine but haven't installed it yet, waiting to buy a new notebook.


    P.S.: No is is obliged to use Vista... it's not compulsory, therefore anyone uses it at their own risk (given that all their costumer rights are preserved)and if the agree to the EULA.
  • DrBob, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3http://duggmirror.com/
  • tomarocco, on 10/12/2007, -13/+3Pinko Commie Fags. Capitalism will prevail...it's Guantanamo for the rest of ya.

  • ravenofwinter, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17Great, yet another worthless attack site that wastes time instead of making things better.
  • ImTheDarkcyde, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15ok, now the FSF just made me dislike them instead of vista by being a bunch of whiny assholes

    i hope this was the intended purpose of 'badvista.org'
  • autocrawler, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5If only you could play DX10 games on anything other than Vista...
    • Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4If only companies stopped using proprietary graphics libraries and started using cross-platform friendly graphics libraries like OpenGL or SDL.

      Thank you ID Software!
  • mattlee, on 10/12/2007, -10/+7I don't see this is FUD - Vista implements many additional restrictions on users' freedom to use their computer. That's a bad thing.

    DRM is also a bad thing - http://www.defectivebydesign.org/ is a campaign to combat that.
    • ImTheDarkcyde, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5it doesn't do anything to limit their freedom on the computer, it limits their freedom in vista, which just happens to not be mandatory to own a computer
  • PatrickBrown, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3FSF launches a site advising against Vista based on its anti-competitive measures and poor user freedom. Everyone begins to hate FSF?

    I don't understand... what am I missing? FSF is indeed correct in Vista implementing limitations. Seems like everyone says "I like Vista" while at the same time saying "I hate DRM" (or related principles). That is like saying "I like chocolate cake" while at the same time saying "I hate flour!".

    You people bitching about the FSF sure as ***** better not be bitching about DRM-related technologies elsewhere.
  • Plato, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10I wonder what the engineers will be eating *if* everyone begins working for free and Microsoft fails to exist?

    For all the *opensource* fanboys out there, do you even have jobs..and if so... do you go to work for free everyday?
    Microsoft MUST charge because people have families to feed and expect renumeration. There is nothing criminal about it, nothing diabolical... it's called "Life".

    All you rebels without a clue really need to get a grip.
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4What will we eat if software is Free?

      The same food that Red Hat engineers eat every day?

      I hear everything's tastier with a clear conscience.
    • mattlee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Free Software is about freedom, not price. Lots and lots of people have jobs writing free software, myself included.
  • producer2k, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2What a load of crap! A hulking load o'crap sending curlicues of smelly steam up the nostrils of the rational consumer who doesn't need to stretch for the xanax bottle every time
    someone mentions "vista" or "microsoft"
  • Fairly, on 10/12/2007, -10/+5Anything that screws things for M$ is fine by me.
    • Plato, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Why do you think it's a good thing when people try to harm the largest philanthoper in History?

      You have something against people and companies who donate to good causes like aids research, hunger, education..et al?
    • rynoon, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3[flame type="bait"]Yeah, Fairly! Do you hate african children? Are you a racist? Do you support the genocide in Darfur? You make me sick. Quit trying to harm our corporate overlords. Can't you see that whatever they do, they do for us?[/flame]
    • Plato, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5rynoon, does a tinfoil hat come with every marked box of your insanity?
  • siddhartha211, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3You make money out of support services and customization services
  • Makurosu, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4I suppose it might be a good thing to have some website to tell me what's wrong with Windows Vista since I'm not going to be using it, but I think I'll be hearing about it from my friends and family.
  • konkushn, on 10/12/2007, -9/+12FSF can SUCK IT.
  • robche, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11you think with all the energy they put into this, they could try actually make a linux OS thats user friendly. (And no ubuntu doesnt count, if I ever have to drop to console for anything basic, its not user friendly). Theres no point of bagging the competition when sadly, theres no decent replacement for PC's.
    • Quadduc, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5It's hard to make an OS "user friendly" when certain hardware and proprietary software vendors are not that friendly to the OS users.
    • Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Agreed, I think Linux isn't "user-friendly" because a lot of hardware vendors don't support linux well and hardware support is lacking in some areas (especially wifi). It's not Linux's fault though...
  • firemillen2, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10why the hell is this even a ***** story that's on the front page of digg?

    rhetorical question of course. these douchebag iFanboys love to spread negative news about anything microsoft. what a bunch of high school asswipe.
    • HyperHacker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2iFanboys? Given iTunes' and iPod's DRM, I find that offensive. This is about stopping DRM, not Microsoft. It targets Vista because Vista is loaded with DRM.
  • wtf00, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2hmm "Trusted Computing" I knew this thing was too quiet, and probably they trying release it quietly so people won't notice, DRM is prime example who your boss.. only reason I'm *cough barrowing Vista because better support for dual core and directx 10 I really don't care about security or new dvd maker/wmp11/ie7/movie maker/etc... all this feature could be with third party programs.
    • Plato, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8it's spelled "Borrowing".

      but it's also called "Stealing". a thief is a thief is a thief.
    • HyperHacker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Such a common completely wrong argument. In theft, somebody is deprived of their property. If you pirate a copy of Vista, who's lost theirs? MS may have lost some money IF you would have bought Vista in the first place, but nobody's lost a copy of Vista, which makes it not theft.
  • Tetraca, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I am against Vista, but is it really necessary to make a whole site about it?
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Wait until you get a load of the new activation...

      It's not so much about how Vista is bad as much about how Activation and DRM in general is bad. And it's an excellent target because OS activation is the form of DRM that I think most often really bites people in the ass.

      Song DRM limits you sometimes, but usually not in ways users notice (by design). But Windows activation? Enough new hardware, or Windows just gets grouchy and BAM you are in the Activation Jail.
  • kevin2735, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6I went to the site and received a warning in IE 7 that the sites wants to use MS XML ver 5.0 add-on........If they are bashing MS.... seems kinda funny they use a MS product on thier website?
    • Quadduc, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3They are using XML. XML is a markup language. Microsoft does not own XML. XML is not a MS product, nor are any "add-ons" to XML.
    • mattlee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Actually, it's a known issue with the CMS the site uses. One of the JavaScript libraries hits an edge case that wasn't present in the IE betas.
  • nubnub, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1http://www.duggmirror.com
  • pirotess, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7This is why open source fanboys suck. They need to lay down the crack pipe if they think that every software should be free.
    • lysdexia, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Well, yes, and I'm still chuckling at the 'happy pay-day for shareholders in FSF' line.

      Shareholders in free software expect to make money?
  • nubnub, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Everybody is going "OMG My computer isn't good enough for vista!"
    I have 512mb ram, AMD Athlon xp 2500+ 1.8GHz, and ATI Radeon 9600 (was a kickass card when I got it) and vista runs FINE. Every xp program I've tried works fine in Vista.
    • Plato, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2my Vista test system (RC1) is an old 1.6 P4, 512 RDRam, 40gig HD (slow, old pos computer) with an NVidia GFroce FX5200, runs Vista (with Aero) just fine.

      All the 2nd hand accounts of Vista in the media are .. I dunno, I don't want to call people Liars.. but the "stories" seem to be complete fabrications.

      And no, this PC is not an exception. I've never heard of a persons system not being able to run Vista due to requirements issues. on the open web or the Vista Beta forums.
    • michaelpe2051, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1yeah! yeah! we get it. linux good. vista bad. enough already! lets move on!
  • cmister, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3Wow the M$ fandom are out tonight. I think I would call this a promising launch for BadVista.org. I can't wait until January 31st :)
  • lysdexia, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4That fsf site is embarrassingly poor.
  • ethernode, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@ backasswards

    Thank you for this great synthetic link
    http://www.forbes.com/archive/forbes/2006/1030/104_2.html
  • tokyopimp, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6This is what I don't understand about how some of you think.

    Lets take MS Office 2007 vs Open Office... sure both will get basic things done.But IMO, Office 2007 is a much better Office Suite, and a better user interface. Now If I did a lot of writing and office work, I would have no problem paying for Office 07. Because to me, it's a much better product worth my money that will benefit me in the long run.

    I have rarely encountered a free piece of software that was better than it's paid for counter part. When someone finds me a free = to Nero, PhotoShop, FL Studio, Pro-Tools (no audacity is not even close) I'll jump on your bandwagon.

    Guess what money and competition motivates people to create better products. That's why there is no equal to NERO for free. And don't spout out a bunch of Linux software, I've used the free burners and software like Gimp on Ubuntu and SuSe and Red Hat.

    I'm not saying there aren't a ton of great free open source applications out there, but I've never found anything free that comes close to the software I have paid for and use. From a technical, or support aspect.




    • texnofobix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3i understand your point but programs like gimp, k3b, and Firefox work great for me.

      Open source helps create competition and I welcome it.
    • xmilky, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@tokyopimp: MS Office is indeed the better office suite - it has a far more responsive GUI and many more features, and the menus or even help system often feel more intuitive. I'm however completely satisfied with OpenOffice (and MS doesn't run well on my platform anyhow). It suffices _for me_, and therefore I'd never though about wasting money on MS Office and unlike in the past or other people I no longer have to pirate software.

      Apart from price and features there are however other important value differences. For example try to open your MS Office files 10 years down the road... Or phone your vendor to get an annoying bug fixed - you'll be laughed at loudly on the pone, while I'd probably get my patchfix within a day, and for free or a beer.

      Sure, you get what you paid for. Free and open source software doesn't usually match up with commercial offerings, but it's certainly "good enough" for the majority of people. If we'd win enough open source users or could kill off piracy completey, this was the end for commercial software (or made it *extremely* expensive, due to a marginalized market).
  • whiteguysamurai, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Stupid tinfoil hats, people will come to them when free software is just as easy to use as windows.
    Not a moment before.
  • glenvdb, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3This is just another prime example of some zelot linux fanboys with way too much time, money, and no brains, spewing off at the month of how some "evil boogey man" is waiting under your bed and gonna get you when you sleep. Face it, they just have "OS Envey" and are pissed that they can't write any spyware or rootkits to infect Vista yet- in otherwords, they have no vision on how to make programs or software that will make them money in the end.
    These people should just get someone to change thier diapers, and tell them to STFU. I am not saying that I agree with Microsoft or that MS has the best products out, but at the end of the day, Every PENNEY I have ever gave to Microsoft, has been worth it (I am glad I didn't pay for ME), and I will gladdly pay for VISTA once I get a new computer next year and the majority of Vista's Bugs have been worked out
    • texnofobix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I haven't been happy with a few Microsoft products. Microsoft before really didn't have any competition. Now they do. I don't agree with this anti-Vista website, though. But I surely do not have the need or want to upgrade to Vista when it comes out. There is no reason to pay for 30,000 *known* bugs like back in Windows 95.
  • fozzie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Personally, I have tried Vista and don't like it. This article is FUD. Let consumers decide what sucks and what doesn't with their dollar why try to make decisions for them?

    Vista isn't going to work for me for one reason, I upgrade WAY too often, I'd go broke with the new licensing policy!
  • Sp1k3d, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Many of you are confused and yet people still digg you up, it's free as in freedom, not free as in no money!
  • Darcy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2If the FOSS community really do believe in freedom like they are always saying, then I hope they respect the choice a lot of people make to pay for some of their software. It seems to me that the FSF's idea of freedom of choice doesn't include the freedom to choose Microsoft products or the freedom to buy media content that uses DRM. I know they believe that every computer user that does not use open source software are dumb ignorant creatures that are incapable of making informed decisions of their own, but I really don't think that spending so much time and effort attacking Microsoft is the best way to convince normal users to switch to FOSS. Maybe if they started behaving like the good guys they claim to be, and putting more of their energy into making open source software better than the competition , who knows, one day their dream of destroying the evil empire could just come true. If that ever happen maybe the FOSS community will be seen as the evil doers.
  • Excessive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I will not support them until they increase the 8 character Nick limit on registration form.
    • Wootery, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That's some valid politics you got there.

      Keep it up.
  • StupidLiberal, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0zippidiee doo da
  • moogleboi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Is vista THAT bad?, it seems okay apart from the occasional glitch, and I've cracked the OS's licensing twice now.
  • hertar, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Yeah - good luck to them with this initiative... Why some people just like to hate something for no specific reason?
  •  

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