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Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads

msnbc.msn.com — On the morning of the launch of the Vista operating system earlier this week, Microsoft chairman Bill Gates talked with NEWSWEEK ’s Steven Levy about the new version of Windows—and the one after that. He also shared his views on those Apple television commercials.

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  • NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -102/+513In TFA, BG says "The number [of violations] will be way less because we’ve done some dramatic things [to improve security] in the code base. Apple hasn’t done any of those things."

    Which is a very tricky way to lie. Apple hasn't made the "dramatic" changes that MS has had to, because they weren't starting from a fundamentally botched security model in the first place.

    -jcr

    • heyitsme23, on 10/12/2007, -83/+77sounds like he has a big chip on his shoulder.
    • colincornaby, on 10/12/2007, -64/+422Apple did make a dramatic change. It was back in 2000 when they switched kernels, and added different user modes. Essentially the same thing Microsoft did in Vista. Microsoft has just been 7 years late.
    • shiftt, on 10/12/2007, -67/+418"I mean, it’s fascinating, maybe we shouldn't have showed so publicly the stuff we were doing, because we knew how long the new security base was going to take us to get done. Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine."

      What the *****? Where the hell does Bill get his "facts" from?
    • cquinnd, on 10/12/2007, -31/+70re: colincornaby - Technically, the same capabilties were in Windows NT based OSes from the mid-90s, and were fairly easy to implement in Windows 2000 and XP. Microsoft was just late in making it a default setting in the OS.
    • drakethegreat, on 10/12/2007, -27/+144Later he claims that there is an Apple exploit capable of fully compramising a Mac on a regular basis. So its quite obvious that while Gates is right about the Mac ads being deceptive, he just turned around and did the same thing. He claims after this comment that he would challenge people to find a similar exploit one a month. Another incredibly deceptive lie because he says Windows not Vista. It's proven fact that there has been more then one major exploit per month for certain months with XP. I guess time will tell in regards to whether its true for Vista as well but either way Gates wasn't in a position to make such a radical claim, especially after claiming a complete lie about Mac OS X.
    • strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -9/+36@cquinnd:
      Exactly. With previous Windows OS's everyone was basically at Admin/root level. The big change is that now, by default, you're not. A Windows LUA is used widely by many corporations and severely limits the possibility of exploits.
    • 1021, on 10/12/2007, -61/+50@shift, look below and search for moab and you will see where Bgates gets his facts from, it's true, OS X can have an exploit a day if there is a big enough market share.
    • ThatsUnpossible, on 10/12/2007, -20/+137"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine."

      Dare? People already do this way more than once a month on Windows. What the hell does he think Black Tuesday is all about? And that's only for the stuff that they fix!
    • uownedge, on 10/12/2007, -33/+121Yeah, that's about it. I think Billy boy is starting to lose it. Last I checked, its the Windows machines that have the frequent security issues.

      Sure, Mac OS isn't perfect, but the security model has been far superior for years now. It's one of the best reasons to use a Mac, for crying out loud.

      It's just one of those areas that Microsoft has been struggling with for a long time, and will probably do so into the future.
    • atmablue, on 10/12/2007, -24/+141"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine."

      Now in this scenario, Bill Gates has switched the word "Mac" with the word "Windows" and vice versa without the audience's knowledge. Watch as the hilarity ensues!
    • betterth, on 10/12/2007, -76/+43Why do you think you hear much more about Ford's breaking down than Lamborghini's? Is it the superior Italian manufacturing (that requires servicing much, much, much more than the average car) or is it the fact that there about 500 million more Fords in existence than Lambos?

      Bad example but it proves the point. There are exploits for Windows because Windows is the biggest. Mac people can claim their OS's superiority any day of the week, but until their OS is the majority leader with millions of intelligent people who's job involves breaking the OS for profit, the claims are baseless.
    • mateo60, on 10/12/2007, -16/+157Exploits completely taking over Apple machines in OS X daily? Huh?? He could NEVER say crap like that to a tech publication and get away with it.
      So, any OS X users had their machines taken over today? :P
    • Asianne, on 10/12/2007, -26/+103I took the time to read the article, I'm very disappointed in Gate's answers to this interview. Vista wasn't even 3 hours old before the Voice Controls were compromised. He may have an out on that dare, if you think about it - you'll probably find more than 1 security issue in Vista every week - higher than his one month challenge.

      Lost a lot of respect for Gates after this article, just another idiot that has no leg to stand on because Vista sales are not as high as anticipated. go ms. He should have taken interview lessons with Steve Jobs.
    • brlittle, on 10/12/2007, -16/+75Gates' responses show, I think, how detached the man is becoming from the average user's reality. Which is hardly surprising.

      And no, this is not a Mac fanboy comment. I use both Mac OS X and Windows Vista all day, every day. It's just a fact that Gates doesn't seem to have much of a real grasp of what a yawner Vista is for Joe User.
    • brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -16/+97"Mac people can claim their OS's superiority any day of the week, but until their OS is the majority leader with millions of intelligent people who's job involves breaking the OS for profit, the claims are baseless."

      Then explain the fact that Unix and Linux are much more secure than Windows even when they completely dominate the server market, with millions of users on their own. That argument is so tired and has been proven wrong many times.
    • betterth, on 10/12/2007, -54/+20@Brstilson

      Why should I prove a fact that has no bearing on my statement. And for a couple of reasons, any way. Sure, Mac OS has its start in Unix, but it's hardly unix anymore.

      And why? Malware writers don't target corporations like they target average users. Great, I'm so glad that Linux dominates the server market. That's all well, but the malware writers target the home users, not the server market. They get their money out of uneducated home users, not out of linux tech's managing servers.

      Did you honestly just try to claim that since linux dominates servers they clearly have the same exposure to malware? Looks like Gates isn't the only one who's totally out of touch with reality.
    • aeonoftime, on 10/12/2007, -6/+33With Vista Microsoft has done a brave thing which Apple didn't even do. They have gone back and rewritten the TCP/IP stack. However the stack in Unix/Linux/OS X is a tested and hardened stack. Thus Vista is going to be wide open. Several security experts found holes in the stack that made it look like Swiss cheese during the beta phases. I am guessing that there are still many holes that still sit in that stack. However the potential performance that could be had out of the stack could be better, but alas it will take even more time to harden.
    • newdna, on 10/12/2007, -31/+12"So, any OS X users had their machines taken over today? :P"

      yeah, right, like that's going to happen... ROFLMMFAOBBQ!!!!!!
    • brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -9/+22"Malware writers don't target corporations like they target average users. "

      No, but malware writers DO target corporations, a LOT. Apparently you haven't heard about all the credit card numbers being stolen off of Windows servers.
    • 81v3d07g0d, on 10/12/2007, -27/+15why would you make dramatic changes in your code base when it comes to security when you have such a small market share that the people who do this type of thing care don't consider it worth there time to write viruses for it. The truth is the truth, lets all stop being intellectually dishonest with ourselves, how can we pretend that when windows although it has plenty of problems, has such a large user base that its no wonder that so many problems are so easily exposed when you have three times the users you have three time the amount of people running and it doesn't help that everybody and there mom develops there crappy poorly written software for this widely used OS.

      Face the facts at this point in order to to say anything positive about windows you have to be well prepared that the moment you open your mouth everyone will cry out that you're lying and how windows is crap and has always been that way. The thing is I use windows because its practical, considering the field I plan to work in if I could afford it I would have a mac as well, Be more than anything I just cant stand Mac fans, smug, narcissistic, and delusional, A computer is a tool, its not what it makes you by owning it its what you do with the tool you own. dont be a tool.
    • aristotle0dude, on 10/12/2007, -2/+28@betterth: How is it hardly unix anymore? Unix is a standard of APIs and services provided by the OS as well as a standard set of commands and shells. Generic unix programs compile fine on OS X without any add-on ports systems like Fink. It is only when software had dependencies based on linux distros when you need some extra libraries and infrastructure from projects like Fink.

      If you were to place an admin used to working with Solaris in front of an OS X Server box, you would find that he/she would be quite comfortable using it

      Google unix timeline and you will see the ancestry of OS X and see that it is clearly an ancestor of both BSD and System V.
    • tafkase7en, on 10/12/2007, -6/+35"Well, certainly we've done a better job letting you upgrade on the hardware than our competitors have done."

      OH SNAP BILL!
    • lukas88, on 10/12/2007, -10/+27People who are wondering if Mac really has more exploits should read this article:

      http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=165
    • yournamehere, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5maybe he's talking about this:

      http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/69919
    • weareglass, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16@81v3d07g0d

      Not using an operating system because you perceive its users to be something is not very practical at all. It's just plain silly. For every ridiculous Mac zealot, there's a ridiculous anti-Mac zealot. There are sensible people who use Windows, Macs, Unix, Linux, BSD, everything. Pick your operating system and machine based on their inherent qualities, not in their respective fanbases.
    • SleeStaK911, on 10/12/2007, -12/+11@brstilson-
      "No, but malware writers DO target corporations, a LOT. Apparently you haven't heard about all the credit card numbers being stolen off of Windows servers."

      Well, What exactly is the Enterprise Server OS version of OS X? What version of Oracle or DB2 does it run? And which fortune 500 companies store all of our Credit Card and/or SS# info on it?

      Perhaps this argument would have some meaning from an Apple point of view if there were some alternative offered there. Volkswagon or TootsieRoll could just as easily be used here, as neither of them could be supplemented to replace, either. IBM is really the only other alternative. (Linux, please... This is real business.)

      If the problem is some hack in Indonesia trying to plant a trojan in your personal rig, then sure. But once we get out of your bedroom, Apple goes from being a minority market share player to non-existent.

      Why is there this perception that Apple plays in the corporate world?
    • yournamehere, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10and then there is this:
      http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=165
    • kupodan, on 10/12/2007, -12/+10to all of you people that think gates is right about mac's being able to be taken over daily...

      With all the claims, wouldn't ya'll think one hacker would want the name and claim to fame that he/she can do it? Seriously. Use your noodles before you read some article that says it can be done easily and yet they can't prove it. Lets stop claiming and start putting up or shutting up.
    • cipher64, on 10/12/2007, -11/+19Apple has got only 10-15% of market share, so I guess that means 90-85% less attacks than windows. It's ridiculous that Microsoft releases a product and Apple is releasing ads about it.
    • brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"Why is there this perception that Apple plays in the corporate world?"

      I was referring to Unix/Linux
    • mb96net, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19I didn't come here because I was interested in the article, I came to read a good flame-war!
    • kronix2, on 10/12/2007, -14/+6@shiftt:

      Actually, OSX exploits are routinely documented. It's just that Apple either threatens to sue whoever discloses the exploit or simply claims it doesn't exist until they quietly release a patch weeks later. Apple's great PR doesn't diminish from the fact that exploits are found. It's just that, with a market share of 6%, Windows is a much more appealing target for exploiting vulnerabilities.

      As for Gates' "I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine" comment, I guess he doesn't read the security bulletins, or know about Patch Tuesday.
    • OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -6/+30A pro-MS story on MS-NBC right when Vista is launched? How could that be?

      Just when yesterday I said this would happen, it happens the next day! These evil overlords are so predictable.

      Well, I guess there's no law about accepting ad money for astroturfing. They just shouldn't call it "news".
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Point to one news article showing Apple suing anyone releasing exploit data. Apple did nothing for instance, about the "Month of Apple Bugs" (which was about three actual OS X bugs and a lot of third party issues that also affected Windows!).
    • geekee, on 10/12/2007, -18/+12"A pro-MS story on MS-NBC right when Vista is launched? How could that be?"

      It's an interview with Bill Gates about a released product. Are you a complete retard?
    • mateo60, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10@OBKenobi

      I wish I could dig your comment twice.
    • Masna, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17"Let’s be realistic, who came up with [the] file, edit, view, help [menu bar]? Do you want to go back to the original Mac and think about where those interface concepts came from?"

      Exactly Bill. And that was right after you *copied* the first Mac. Bastard.
    • tyho, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3After I read that article I thought, ouch, the fanbois are gonna be pissed about this one. Swung by the comments just to watch the flames. You guys really need to relax. You take Apple, Bill, and yourselves way too seriously.
    • Itkovian, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13Well, of course it's easy to break into a mac. I do it every day. Just pull the chair from under my wife, and yopla, the machine's all mine.
    • malavalla, on 10/12/2007, -11/+5mmmmmmmmm who do I believe bill gates or a bunch of Steve job wannabes
    • brainScan, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7The theft of ideas from Mac was so blatently obvious in Windows 95/XP. For instance, the "Recycle Bin" showed up in the bottom right-hand corner of the screen after Windows was installed. It showed up right where Macs had it. But as soon as you cleaned up the desktop, it moved to the left. MS was totally thumbing their noses at Apple, stealing and admitting it!!! Why shouldn't they do it again, when they know they got away with it before?
    • Bleeblaow, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2"The theft of ideas from Mac was so blatently obvious in Windows 95/XP. For instance, the "Recycle Bin" showed up in the bottom right-hand corner of the screen after Windows was installed. It showed up right where Macs had it. But as soon as you cleaned up the desktop, it moved to the left. MS was totally thumbing their noses at Apple, stealing and admitting it!!! Why shouldn't they do it again, when they know they got away with it before?"

      Wow, the bottom right-hand corner? Those dastardly brigands.
    • dbora, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@Masna

      I'm not sure if you're implying that Apple came up with those base feature (sets or ideas) first. Just in case, I'm going to refer you to the Xerox work that Jobs is famed to have seen around the time of the Lisa work.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_graphical_user_interface

      No doubt that Apple ran with the idea and made it measurably better (because above all, PARC was and is about research not products) but we gotta pay homage to the roots of reality.
    • zopu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@dbora

      Xerox were rewarded with a large number of Apple shares in exchange for licenses for Xerox Parc's technology.

      On the other hand, MS ripped it off. Still, we still hear the "Apple copied it first" argument...
    • goodoldharris, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Gates: "And I don't know why [Apple is] acting like it’s superior. I don't even get it. What are they trying to say? Does honesty matter in these things ..."

      Apple acting like it's superior? I think that's called "business", which Gates should know. He should also know that when you're the richest man in the world and trying to present a good image for your company's latest product, you shouldn't say things that make you sound like a jealous teenager. I totally agree with Asianne's comment above. I usually like Gates but not as much after reading this interview.
    • BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@Mythos

      No, which is why all other voice recognition systems take the basic precaution of filtering out their own output - something programmers recognised would be essential before we even implemented it for real.
    • thbt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Gates is no idiot. This article wasn't directed at the technically competent, but to the masses who may or may not know better.

      Perception is reality, and this will probably end up boosting Vista sales more than it could hurt.
  • marco114, on 10/12/2007, -91/+33He says their security guys take down Apple every single day. I guess they really do study Apple constantly. They are probably trying to reverse engineer the OS. If they knew how to program worth a crap, they wouldn't take down the OS. Only Entourage and Office are sluggish on my Mac, everything else is speedy. What does that tell you? Bill Gates is really getting pissed with all the Mac this and Mac that.
    • scooterbaga, on 10/12/2007, -56/+133Weren't most of those bugs he found *****?
    • ScornForSega, on 10/12/2007, -71/+42Yep. That and when your servers start at $3000, you'll find that there are so few on the internet that it's not worth trying to exploit them.

    • colincornaby, on 10/12/2007, -37/+95"Yep. That and when your servers start at $3000, you'll find that there are so few on the internet that it's not worth trying to exploit them."

      I'm yet to find Dell servers of the same specs for cheaper.

      (Go ahead and do a comparison. You'll find Apple's servers are the cheapest out of all the major hardware vendors.)
    • uownedge, on 10/12/2007, -23/+57Yeah, the Month of Apple bugs project pretty much bombed. A lot of what he was getting at were bugs in third party apps -- not the OS, or even Apple's applications.

      I think it's kind of silly that he's daring people to try to do that to Windows. That's just asking for trouble.
    • naio21, on 10/12/2007, -32/+15"the funny part was after Bill Gates referenced this he said, "I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine." i guess "patch tuesday" wasn't to patch exploits, but just to make windows that much cooler, right?"

      Dear Sir, you are a Moron. He is talking about VISTA, not XP.
    • strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -21/+47@colincornaby:
      I won't go into how easy it is to spec rack mounted Dells that are under $3k, so let's just try to compare similar hardware:

      Dell:
      2x Dual Core Intel® Xeon® 5148LV, 4MB Cache, 2.33GHz, 1333MHz FSB
      2GB 667MHz (2x1GB), Dual Ranked DIMMs
      73GB, SAS
      Warranty: 3Yr BASIC SUPPORT: 5x10 HW-Only, 5x10 NBD Onsite [Included in Price]
      $3,547

      Apple:
      2x 2.0GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon (slower, but they don't have the 2.33GHz as an option)
      2GB (4x512MB)
      73GB SAS
      Warranty: 1 year (?)
      $3,597.00
    • KirinDave, on 10/12/2007, -5/+24The Xserve line is due for a refresh, and is not currently a good value.

      Wait until you can see what I see in Leopard Server.
    • colincornaby, on 10/12/2007, -8/+30@strictnein

      Did you include unlimited client Windows Server?
    • strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -18/+7@colincornbaby:
      The statement I was replying to was "Go ahead and do a comparison. You'll find Apple's servers are the cheapest out of all the major hardware vendors."
      See that "Hardware vendors" part? I don't give a rats ass what OS you put on your hardware.
    • danielwsmithee, on 10/12/2007, -8/+30I'd like a link to that Dell server you speced out please, because here you can price it for $5422 without an OS ingoring the fact that the Apple server comes with Tiger server.

      http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=555&l=en&oc=MLB1675&s=biz

      Oh wait maybe you have one of those hidden Dell coupons that are so infamous.
    • glxyjones, on 10/12/2007, -15/+14First off, I'm both a Windows and Mac user. I fully admit that I prefer the OSX interface and features of XP's any day (haven't tried Vista much). Both have their definite stengths and weaknesses.

      However, it's incredibly hard to compare which operating system is more susceptible to exploits due to the huge disparity of Windows machines for Apple machines being used. Windows has a close (if not greater than) 10 to 1 market share over OSX. If you were a hacker looking to make a name for yourself, do you exploit David or Goliath? Spyware or Malware or any other type of malicious software for a computer comes down to either A) making a name for yourself or B) money. It's very similar to why spam is such a huge business, the more computers you infect the more you're seen or heard of and the more publicity you receive. As Apple's market share rises, so will the amount of exploits people discover.
    • gleepskip, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@KirinDave: Are you implying you are testing Leopard Server and you like what you see?
    • strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15@Daniel:
      Start here:
      http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=555&l=en&oc=MLB1675_ES&s=biz
      Add the 2nd processor
      Drop the memory to 2GB
      Bump the HD to 73GB

      Linked from dell.com -> Medium & large business -> Servers -> Rack Servers -> 1950-> Customize It -> Buy Up to 2.33GHz...
      Nothing hidden, nothing secret.
    • danielwsmithee, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10That is interesting their energy smart 1950 configured identical to a generic 1950 has a nearly $2000 price difference.

      One difference you are forgetting to add is the redundant power supply that the Apple comes with, so another ~$350. There are also some other differences. The Dell uses 2.5" drive with 4 bays the Apple has 3.5" drives. There are probably many other minor differences. So the Apple XServe is more similar to the generic 1950 that I linked to but I'm sure there are generic differences there too.

      All and all I don't think that a complaint of a $3000 server is much to complain about since everyone else is about the same price.
    • Vohu, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10"The statement I was replying to was "Go ahead and do a comparison. You'll find Apple's servers are the cheapest out of all the major hardware vendors."
      See that "Hardware vendors" part? I don't give a rats ass what OS you put on your hardware."

      However, since your statement was a price comparison, failing to include even an ultra cheap OS option in your Dell (as the Dell by default doesn't include an OS, unlike the Apple) and claiming Apple is more expensive is being extremely dishonest.
    • SleeStaK911, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Did you guys know that the web server is typically only the entry point to any decent enterprise scale portal? That is just the part sitting in the DMZ.

      Then there are gateways, application servers, database servers, redundant fail-overs for all of these servers, monitoring agents, PLUS all of the computers that the people who manage all of this use to do their jobs.

      As these sort of applications either just do not exist for Mac, other than as a novelty, this is Windows, or UNIX's job.

      I think MS should create a 'Get a Mac'-like commercial where the PC opens a door behind him, and there is a booming corporate industry behind it, but all Mac can do is pull a Macbook out of a backpack, and an iPod out of his bluejeans...

      Don't get me wrong. Macs are excellent computers (these days). And if the run from ground-zero started today, instead of 1980, things may well turn out differently. But it is not going to. And here we are...
    • ScornForSega, on 10/12/2007, -15/+9All you assholes missed the point.

      The point is that not everyone needs a $3000 server, and when you start your pricing that high, the likelihood of it catching on is slim and thusly less attractive a target for exploits.

      At Dell, servers START at $450
      At Apple, they START at $3000.

    • Markie1006, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14$450 does not a server make
    • KirinDave, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@gleepskip: Every ADC member has access to the Leopard Seeds.

      And the answer is an emphatic yes. OS X's server performance is improving dramatically. Please forgive me if I don't say more in a public forum.
    • danielwsmithee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@SleeStaK911
      Did you just wake up and still have not learned that OS X is a UNIX. It's a server you can do whatever you want with it, just like you can with a Dell, HP, or Sun.

      A $450 server I would like to see that. If you count that, I'll gladly take a Mac mini in comparison.
    • SleeStaK911, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Don't lump me in with the $450 server crowd. I spent darn near that much on my video card.
      A real server (4x4 xeon) with respectable specs all-around will likely come in around 6 grand with my customers...
      BUT...my point is that you CAN NOT do whatever you want with it. Unless you just want to host a web server only, or some java scripts.
      My point is lost if you do not understand. I refuse to spend more effort here...
    • danielwsmithee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I didn't mean to lump you with the $450 server crowd it was meant to be a seperate response to two comments.

      While yes there are more powerful servers available in $6000 range, with 4 sockets instead of two. The XServe with OS X Server can run anything you can run on any other UNIX platform just fine which you implied that it will not.
  • atropus32, on 10/12/2007, -33/+22And BGs response on the need for an upgrade was offered with a solid burst of equivocation. After getting stuck into the Mac ads and then to respond to the question re upgrades with a "some will and some won't, off topic segue..." was not entirely honest. He *does* know (I assume) that the minimum specs for Vista have been increased? That most reviews have suggested upgrades *will* be required for reasonable performance of the OS?
    • geoken, on 10/12/2007, -16/+45Considering the average 2 year old or newer PC can run Vista fine, I think the 'some will, some won't' comment is pretty justified.

      And how was he 'stuck into the mac ads'? The question about surgery was directly refrencing the mac ads, specifically the one were Hodgman is undergoing surgery. Bill Gates was asked what he thought about these ads. How is his direct answering of a question analogous to him being fixated on the topic?
    • gallagherFTW, on 10/12/2007, -29/+171. Last time i checked (two minutes ago), apple just auto-updated and you won't need to upgrade any physical components for tiger. (SOME people will need it for vista.)

      2. "What are they trying to say? Does honesty matter in these things, or if you're really cool, that means you get to be a lying person whenever you feel like it?"
      - I consider plagiarism a lie, lying that you came up with all those "NEW" specs when apple has had all of them for at least 2 or 3 years. Gates lies every time he says that those specs are a new thing.

      3. Q. Does the entire tenor of that campaign bother you, that Mac is the cool guy and PC — A. "That’s for my customers to decide."
      He asked you dumbass. The public has already spoken, by increasing the mac market share significantly in the past year

    • strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -38/+26"The public has already spoken, by increasing the mac market share significantly in the past year"
      Significantly? Numbers please. It's still at about 2% last time I checked.
    • Latimer, on 10/12/2007, -19/+14Of course your computer should need new/current gen hardware to run Vista. Whether you like it or not this OS will be the dominant OS for the next 7-10 years.... it should require/take advantage of significant computing power and new hardware technologies. Do you people want Vista to be able to run on a P3/256MB Ram? I sure as hell want an OS that will take advantage of new technologies.
    • betterth, on 10/12/2007, -21/+25@Gallagher

      People won't need physical upgrades for Tiger because theres nothing new but a few optimizations and a few apps.

      And it's a damn good thing they won't, because Mac's aren't upgradeable outside of more ram or hard drive space.
    • OandA, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@strictnein
      This is browser market share info.
      http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=2
    • Balanced, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Betterth: or PCI slots, That new PCMCIA replacement thingy, USB, etc. found on various models...
    • selrahc, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Well if you're upgrading from windows 98, or already running XP at the minimum recommended specs, then yes, Vista will require an upgrade...
    • colincornaby, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12"Significantly? Numbers please. It's still at about 2% last time I checked."

      5.8% October last year.
      http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/10/19/marketshare/index.php
    • jm9206755, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12@Latimer

      Yes. I do want my OS to run on a PIII with 256MB. Want to know why? Because all an OS is SUPPOSED to be is an abstraction layer between hardware and third-party applications. That's a huge reason I prefer Linux - it focuses on being a good OS which you can then tailor to your needs.
    • betterth, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3@by jm9206755

      You're wrong there.

      It's not "supposed" to be that, it "was" that. You can't say there is a static unchangeable definition of OS and forever and ever that will never change. Linux adheres to your definition, OSX and Windows do not.

      They adhere to what the consumer wants. If the consumers want an OS that does more than connect software to hardware, than the vendors make it.

      It's silly to think that an OS is supposed to be an abstraction layer and nothing else.
  • miker71, on 10/12/2007, -7/+23"right now when you move from one PC to another, you've got to install apps on each one, do upgrades on each one. Moving information between them is very painful. We can use Live Services [a way to connect to Microsoft via the Internet] to know what you're interested in. So even if you drop by a [public] kiosk or somebody else's PC, we can bring down your home page, your files, your fonts, your favorites and those things. So that's kind of the user-centric thing that Live Services can enable. [Also,] in Vista things got a lot better with [digital] ink and speech but by the next release there will be a much bigger bet. Students won't need textbooks, they can just use these tablet devices. Parallel computing is pretty important for the next release. We'll make it so that a lot of the high-level graphics will be just built into the operating system. So we've got a pretty good outline."

    Only if you rely on Microsoft products which require activation.
    • EnderTheThird, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Initially, Bill's idea there sounded like a great one. But then I thought about it and realized that the majority of the applications that I need while away from home are available for free online (many through Google). My trust may or may not be misplaced, but I trust Google more than Microsoft as far as gathering statistics on me in order to serve ads to keep a service free.

      It's incredible, though not surprising, that a company with as much market share and influence as Microsoft isn't doing very much to really change the way we use and interact with our computers. I don't think any other technology-based company (aside from maybe Google) has ever been, or ever will be, in the position that they have been for the last ~10 years. We'll just have to wait and see how long their current business model lasts with the changing technology economy though.
    • franksands, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10Have you ever heard of .mac? guess what does that do?
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4When you move from one Mac to another, you simply point the new Mac at the old one and it copies all applications and user data over (it's part of the startup procedure on every new Mac). No Internet required to make it work, which means it happens faster (both because the transfer happens over firewire and also because you are copying settings before you ever set up accounts on the new box).

      Ongoing, yes .Mac is there to help you sync things like address books, calendars and bookmarks. There are more cross platform solutions if you are technically included, but if not then .Mac makes it easy to do all these things.
    • appleswitch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"[Also,] in Vista things got a lot better with [digital] ink and speech but by the next release there will be a much bigger bet. Students won't need textbooks, they can just use these tablet devices."

      That's gonna be great! Such a great leap for education! My school has tons of tablet PCs just sitting in the closet becouse of the lack of better digital ink and speach in vista! It's not like we're still using Windows 95 on CRT's the size of a small car that we only got becouse the millitary base was going to THROW THEM AWAY.
  • lokithefirst, on 10/12/2007, -59/+36Bill Gates is acting like quite the frightened executive. He sees the paradigm shifting and he's not happy about it. He has a salesman trying to run a company that truly needs a technology visionary. I'll refrain from using any competitors names so you can't call me a fanboy, but the truth hurts and Microsoft has been selling inferior products at the expense of their users for far too long and it is high time that someone does it better.
    • edzieba, on 10/12/2007, -14/+70And Steve Jobs ISN'T a salesman running a company?
    • velvethead, on 10/12/2007, -38/+24Gates is a businessman who's in sales.

      Jobs is an artist who's in sales.
    • teamhot, on 10/12/2007, -20/+9Nope, he's a get cool ***** done kind-of guy.
    • betterth, on 10/12/2007, -36/+24Why does everyone pretend that some paradigm has shifted because of Steve Jobs and that computing is on this "let's all switch to Mac" trend.

      It's bull ***** and the numbers show it. Market shares aren't changing.

      Bill Gates is a better businessman that Steve Jobs will ever, ever, ever be. Steve Jobs is a celebrity running a company. A great public speaker. Bill Gates is a nerd and a highly intelligent businessman. Bill Gates will not let Steve Jobs do anything but quiet the annoying minority who hates Windows. To Microsoft, Apple is the answer to a problem. The problem was discontent users who wanted something "better" (read: different, also: better suited for idiots and artistic users) and Apple answered the issue.

      If you think for one second Microsoft will let Apple take market share you've got another thing coming. Remember the size in companies, Microsoft could do a hostile takeover of Apple without thinking, the only problem would be anti-trust. (Another convenient issue Apple solves for Microsoft)
    • TimmyGUNZ, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23"Bill Gates is a better businessman that Steve Jobs will ever, ever, ever be. Steve Jobs is a celebrity running a company. A great public speaker. Bill Gates is a nerd and a highly intelligent businessman. Bill Gates will not let Steve Jobs do anything but quiet the annoying minority who hates Windows."

      I wonder if Sony thought the same thing about Reggie Fils-Aime?
    • Wytefang, on 10/12/2007, -26/+5Nope, I doubt it. Sony, just like Microsoft vs Apple, has much more going on with their company than Nintendo, they're simply bigger all around. And the Wii, being a gimmick is hardly the market leader. When the majority of Wii-tards start looking for good games to play this year and find none, they're going to start felling pretty foolish. So your analogy sucks. I'd take Bill Gates over SJ any day.
    • EnderTheThird, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7@Wytefang:

      Call Wii whatever you'd like, but the important thing to remember here is that Sony has had problem after problem regarding the launch of the PS3. Production hangups resulted in way fewer consoles reaching stores than they expected. They had several hardware and software shortcomings that disappointed many loyal customers. They had an extra year (in comparison to Xbox 360) to get some of those things in order, but it didn't help. People aren't buying the console like they were expecting, and less than 2 months after the system's launch I found dozens of 60GB PS3s at every Best Buy I went to.

      Then you have the Wii. I'm pretty sure they shipped somewhere near double the number of PS3s before year's end (don't quote me on numbers, but I know it was at least a few hundred thousand more units). It's cheaper, yes, but there are still people camping out to get the system when they hear just a rumor that a store will be selling them in the morning. I haven't been able to find a Wii for my brother in 1.5 months of looking.

      Nintendo won't put Sony out of business, not by any means. But with Sony losing money in so many other areas, they NEED to make money from the PS3. Nintendo is solely a gaming company; they're in the business of making money from gaming or they have no business at all. To call the Wii nothing more than a gimmick when it's obviously outselling the PS3 is nothing more than blatant ignorance and stupidity. The Wii isn't a market leader, and it nor the PS3 won't even be in a position to be one for at least a year. But considering the time frame, number of systems, and availability of systems, the Wii is outperforming the PS3 without any question as far as I'm concerned. The PS3's extra power could make a difference in the long run, but it sure as hell isn't helping now.

      I want something good to come out of Sony as much as the next gamer. But I'm not going to pay $600 for a console riddled with problems (especially for my 1080i HDTV) when it offers me nothing better or more unique than playing something on my Wii or XBox 360. Nintendo has made some downright ridiculous mistakes in the past (Nintendo 64 cartridges, anyone?), but underestimating them now is just stupid.
    • TRexALot, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Bill Gates is 'frightened'?
      Damn....I guess that I would be frightened too --- being the richest person in the world and everything.
    • tcybulski, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6i think someone accidently flipped the flamewar switch from MS to Sony. : )
  • TheTSArt, on 10/12/2007, -36/+33I honestly thought that Gates was quite satisfied with his superior market share and his new role in improving world health. So, I was really surprised to read his comments. He obviously lets the whole Mac vs. PC thing bother him.

    I had given him a little extra credit because of his foundation work, but now I see he really hasn't changed one bit.
  • geoken, on 10/12/2007, -64/+110Seems like everything he said was pretty logical.

    He was asked what he thought of Hodgman's stereotypical character and his answer was that he doesn't think the average Windows user thinks of themeselves as a dullard or klutz.

    He was then asked what he thought about the 'surgery' commercial. His responce, you'll have to undergo a far bigger hardware change to run OSX.

    The last question about stolen features, he basically says what everyone has been telling mac fanboys for years; that all the features were shown in early betas of Vista before they were shown in OSX.

    All his responces were truthful. Apple claims the opposite ie. hey acuse MS of copying them, they imply that upgrading to vista requires more of a hardware change than upgrading to OSX, etc. All he did was point out that they are being very deceptive with their marketing.
    • MagnetoWasRight, on 10/12/2007, -81/+33"that all the features were shown in early betas of Vista before they were shown in OSX."

      It's amusing that Windows fanboys still don't realize how absolutely pathetic this sounds.
    • ckohler, on 10/12/2007, -34/+83"He was then asked what he thought about the 'surgery' commercial. His responce, you'll have to undergo a far bigger hardware change to run OSX."

      He doesn't understand the message of the ad. It's saying that simply upgrading your OS shouldn't require you to buy entirely new hardware and/or force you to install updated drivers. Over the years, Mac OS X upgrades have consistently run as fast if not faster on the existing Mac hardware available at the time of their release.
    • Embrace, on 10/12/2007, -24/+24Truth is pathetic?
    • geoken, on 10/12/2007, -29/+40"It's amusing that Windows fanboys still don't realize how absolutely pathetic this sounds."

      Do you mind explaining why?
    • mobilehavoc, on 10/12/2007, -54/+41I agree...Apple fanboys just can't handle the truth.
    • strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -37/+51"It's saying that simply upgrading your OS shouldn't require you buy entirely new hardware or force you to install new drivers."
      Why shouldn't an OS require new drivers? I'm confused at your logic on that one.

      And how is that any different than what Apple offers? Not a lot of people running OSX on their original G3 or G4s. The performance is absolute crap. And good luck upgrading those.
    • kelly, on 10/12/2007, -28/+17But Apple's ads aren't calling PC users dullards. They're calling PCs dullards. There's a big difference there and Gates is trying to confuse the issue by implying that Apple said something that they didn't.
    • VargVikernes, on 10/12/2007, -26/+15"Over the years, Mac OS X upgrades have consistently run as fast if not faster on the existing Mac hardware available at the time of their release."

      1. Make the OS run as slow as possible
      2. Remove that slowness with every major release
      3. ???
      4. Profit!

      Seriously, OS X 10.0 was so slow that it could only get better with time.
    • lilzaphod, on 10/12/2007, -26/+18They may have been shown early, but they were LATE to market. Ergo - it was a copy of what was readily available on the main stream market for years when it was finally released.

      I like when he was ranting about the "Who did the (windowing) menus first" portion. Wasn't it Xerox, and then ripped off by Microsoft?

      This was a total fluff piece. I would like to have someone technical challenge him on all the DRM that was forced into the OS that steals CPU cycles looking for potential piracy and the down ezing of legally purchased content.

      -signed recently converted Windows user.
    • nwoolls, on 10/12/2007, -26/+24"He doesn't understand the message of the ad. It's saying that simply upgrading your OS shouldn't require you buy entirely new hardware or force you to install new drivers. Over the years, Mac OS X upgrades have consistently run as good if not faster on the existing Mac hardware available at the time of their release, a claim Windows simply can not make."

      So you're claiming that the incremental updates to Mac OSX (the first couple of which were necessary to even make it usable) are as big, wide-ranging and impactful as going from XP to Vista?

      Of course Mac OSX upgrades haven't needed much in the way of hardware upgrades. Neither have XP's updates and SP's. There's a big difference between going from Mac OSX 10.3 to 10.4 and going from Windows XP to Vista.
    • svartgotik, on 10/12/2007, -24/+15It *is* deceptive how they market those ads. See, if you want to upgrade to Vista, you need to replace your video card, download all these drivers, it's painful and messy. If you want to upgrade your mac, you just buy a new one! SIMPLE! That's a simplistic view on how to upgrade a mac, but for the most part it is true. Also, how much money have mac users shelled out over the years playing catch-up to the next major development of just OSX? Panther to tiger to leopard to cheetah to bobcat and so on at 120$ and up for each one unless they bought a new system.

      Each OS has their strengths and weaknesses, regardless of how willing the avid supporter will admit those weaknesses of their own chosen OS or the strengths of the other.
    • Machine, on 10/12/2007, -9/+50strictnein - I'm running the latest version of OSX on a 5 year old G4 and Tiger is much faster than Jaguar was. I'll be getting a new Mac when Leopard comes out... simply because the hardware is starting to give out on my old laptop... from heavy use... but I'm in no hurry... and I'll bet you that 10.5 will run just fine on G4s and G5s.
    • darthsnoopy, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17@ckohler

      Um, I think the message of the ad was about hardware being built in, which is something fundamental that Apple doesnt understand...

      The ad in question brags about how a cam is built into a mac, and yet the PC, to get a cam, has to have one strapped on(installed).

      It's a philosophy difference...for Macs, they give you a piece of quality hardware, pre installed, providing a nice sleek clean look. The cons are that you pay the price for the quality hardware...and you lose out on choice.

      In the windows world, MS makes the platform, and OEM vendors choose how to distribute it. If dell wants to build in a cam, they have the choice to. If not, then the user can make the decision if they want the cam or not. They don't have to pay a premium for hardware to make that decision.And they can choose the level of cam they want...from ones that are cheaper to ones much superior to a cam built into a mac.

      The argument of OS upgrades running faster on a system also has two sides...for many consumers, they'd just as quickly buy a new computer than deal with an OS upgrade. Sad for those of us that can build computers in our sleep... but true
    • geoken, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14"They may have been shown early, but they were LATE to market. Ergo - it was a copy of what was readily available on the main stream market for years when it was finally released."

      You apparently don't have a firm grasp on the definition of 'copy'.

      If you show a concept of a product, get beat to market by some Chinese company who copies your concept, then release your product are you guilty of copying the afformentioned Chinese company?
    • MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16"DRM that was forced into the OS that steals CPU cycles looking for potential piracy"

      I was encoding a wmv to mpeg for some reason or other on vista, and I noticed that when the wmv was being read, Vista launched a new process (This doesn't run normally, it just ran when the WMV was being read). It ate up a whole 5 megs of my ram and stole between 0 and 1% of my CPU. Those bastards! How dare they!
    • Fedge, on 10/12/2007, -4/+42@ strictnein
      "Not a lot of people running OSX on their original G3 or G4s. The performance is absolute crap. And good luck upgrading those."

      I'm not sure where you got that information, but I've been running OS X on my G3 iBook and my G4 Powerbook for years. OS X has significantly increased the speed at which these two notebooks run. Every time apple has realeased a major upgrade, my machines have run FASTER. Good luck running Vista on your Pentium IIIs.
    • ckohler, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11@darthsnoopy

      Wrong commercial. That one is titled "Tech Support". The "Surgery" ad is about how PC has to go into surgery to upgrade his video card, install different drivers and generally go through a lot of hassle in order to upgrade to Vista while the Mac is surprised by all the fuss since installing new versions of OS X is pretty effortless. For him, new versions of OSX have no new divers to install and it runs on his existing hardware just as fast if not faster.
    • sporkmonger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18@svartgotik

      Er, no, you're talking about apples and oranges here.

      The Mac ad is implying that you need hardware upgrades to even run Vista at all, which is largely true. Whereas virtually all Mac users who want to run Leopard when it comes out will simply put in the CD, run the install and be done with it. In fact, most new versions of OS X have ended up being faster than the previous version on the same hardware. This has never been the case for any version of Windows, as far as I know. As such, the "upgrade" in the commercial would not involve buying a new Mac.

      And for the record, Walt Mossberg's column in the Washington Post on Vista basically said that if you want Vista, you should probably just buy a new computer with it pre-installed.

      All that said, it's kind of silly to be arguing over the validity of an -advertisement-. I mean, seriously.

      (speaking as someone who actively uses both OS X and Windows and likes both for what they're good for)
    • kethraal, on 10/12/2007, -2/+29"Not a lot of people running OSX on their original G3 or G4s. The performance is absolute crap. And good luck upgrading those."

      I'm gonna go ahead and guess you haven't actually... you know... tried to run Tiger on a G3 or G4. It works fine. No, you won't be able to play UT2004 at 1600x1200... but you will be able to do everyday tasks just fine.

      How do I know? Well, I'm typing this from an iMac DV SE (400mhz G3 and 384MB of RAM)... it's happily running Tiger. Yes, it's not blazingly fast... but it's nowhere near "absolute crap"... far from it. I do my day to day coding, web browsing, and e-mail on a G4 Cube. It works great.

      Performance _has_ steadily increased since 10.0. I've run every version of OS X on that iMac, and I've enjoyed a speed increase with each major version.
    • montyjs, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20"He was asked what he thought of Hodgman's stereotypical character and his answer was that he doesn't think the average Windows user thinks of themeselves as a dullard or klutz."

      He completely misunderstood the ad. The ad does not depict people using a PC as dullards or klutzes, but the hardware itself. The ad says. "Hey, why are you using a business machine instead of something simpler." In one particular commercial, it depicts the PC as worn out because he was used by kids for media.

      Gates has to realize he himself is a business nerd. He makes things for business. Macs are made for the average joe computer user.
    • thephosphorbox, on 10/12/2007, -14/+8@kelly The commercials portray the PC as a dullard and imply that people who use PCs do nothing but edit spreadsheets and type up Word docs. It's blatantly untrue and misleading. I wonder how many Mac folks who love those ads are against racial stereotyping.. those ads are the same concept applied to PC users. I've been a PC user since 1995 when I finally let my Amiga go and 99% of the work I do is creative. There has never been a time when I've said to myself "man I wish I had a Mac, it would make this so much easier".

      The ads are perpetuating a myth thats LONG dead and they are extremely misleading.
    • linuxos77, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12I love how people like to point out that Mac's suck because all you can upgrade is the memory (unlike a PC desktop which makes it easy to add/upgrade components). So...... how many users ever in the normal 3-5 year lifespan of ANY computer (PC or Mac) do any hardware upgrades period. And those that do usually only add RAM or maybe a larger/another hard drive. I don't see that many users adding new graphics cards, upgrading CPU's, etc... It's usually cheaper to just buy a new machine. Sure there's users out there that do and I'm sure you'll speak up (and probably half of you that do are totally bull *****), but plain and simple, most users don't want to or need to during the lifespan of their hardware. How about PC laptop users? About all you can upgrade in a laptop is memory... Why don't people bitch about those not being upgradeable? In this OS war, why does there have to be a winner? What if GASP... Mac is better for one user, but WHOA... Windows is better for someone else. Computers are a tool, you use a different tool for different tasks, so depending on what you're planning to do with your computer can determine what OS is a better fit for you. This whole OS argument is like arguing about what's better, a screw driver or a hammer.
    • thephosphorbox, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4"Gates has to realize he himself is a business nerd. He makes things for business. Macs are made for the average joe computer user."

      Not entirely true. MS does make products for businesses, but the Windows OS itself does not restrict you to business-only applications. You are also perpetuating a stereotype that is long dead.
    • elsagacious, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7@lilzaphod:
      Of course this was a fluff piece. It was propaganda masquerading as news. Did you notice what website the piece was shown on? MSNBC! Surely no bias there... LOL
    • ckohler, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13@thephosphorbox

      Ugh. Please understand this very simple concept: The PC and Mac characters in the ads are *NOT* representative of PC and Mac users. They are personifications of the machines. That's why they say "I'm a Mac and I'm a PC" at the beginning of every commercial.
    • missflibbles, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7geoken, I don't think he was trying to imply that MS had in any way copied Apple.

      Let's say we have two companies: Coffee cup maker A and coffee cup maker B. Coffee cup maker A comes up with a great idea called the handle, but it takes seven years to get it out on the market. Coffee cup maker B catches on to the fact that handles might be a good thing, and gets it out on the market in three. Do you give a rat's ass who thought of the idea first, or are you going to buy from the company that actually implemented the upgrade? Unless you have some kind of brand loyalty, aren't you going to buy from the company who gives you the features you want or need first?

      Don't act like it's something different because we're talking about rival computer/software companies.
    • svartgotik, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8back @ sporkmonger

      "The Mac ad is implying that you need hardware upgrades to even run Vista at all, which is largely true. Whereas virtually all Mac users who want to run Leopard when it comes out will simply put in the CD, run the install and be done with it. In fact, most new versions of OS X have ended up being faster than the previous version on the same hardware. This has never been the case for any version of Windows, as far as I know. As such, the "upgrade" in the commercial would not involve buying a new Mac."

      Which is basically untrue. If i were to wish to upgrade to Vista on my machine right now, a Gateway Athlon 3800+ X2 with a 7800GT video card (i installed, not out of the box) and 2 gigs of RAM that we paid less than a thousand bucks for last year, all it would take for me is just to pop that DVD in for Vista. I would be able to run Ultimate with Aero Glass and be fully capable of all features. I should not have to upgrade any hardware to go to Vista. At all. However, i have a lot of mac user friends who were very upset that their new G5s were now seemingly obsolete because mac abandoned their entire architecture to go to Intel. If i want to make my machine go faster, i can pry my old CPU out and install a new one (within the limits of the motherboard) for around the same price as your OS upgrade from Tiger to Leopard. And it will be a measurable difference in speed, not a perceived one.

      "And for the record, Walt Mossberg's column in the Washington Post on Vista basically said that if you want Vista, you should probably just buy a new computer with it pre-installed."

      I can agree with that. It's just practical.

      "All that said, it's kind of silly to be arguing over the validity of an -advertisement-. I mean, seriously.

      (speaking as someone who actively uses both OS X and Windows and likes both for what they're good for)"

      As a guy who next computer is going to be a MacBook Pro, i look forward to being able to have the best of both worlds too. I own two ipods. I'm not anti-apple, but i am anti Kool-Aid.
    • newdna, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15" Not a lot of people running OSX on their original G3 or G4s. The performance is absolute crap. And good luck upgrading those."

      I am running the current OS X on a beige G3, an iMac G3, a Powerbook G3, and 2 G4 cubes. Granted, they are not fastest machines, but they all run faster now than they did with their original OS's. The iMac G3 and the 2 G4 Cubes serve as file share backups (with their new massive hard drives) and all are used for playing Music throughout the house over the network and for general web browsing. One of the G4 cubes is connected to my projector and I use it all the time to surf the web... I even run Google earth on it. (the app gave me a message that the sys reqs were too low, but it runs fine anyway ). The old Powerbook (over 6 years now!) runs OS X great and I take it on trips for web surfing at the hotels. (I do need a new battery, though)
      So, while I still use a dual-G5 (it's over 2 years old and still runs super) for my major work... These older machines still work fine and you are talking out of the side of your ass with made-up information. =-p
    • colincornaby, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12"Not a lot of people running OSX on their original G3 or G4s. The performance is absolute crap. And good luck upgrading those."

      I've got OS X running on a G4 Cube and Powerbook G4, latest version, 10.4. At work we have a bunch of G3 iMacs all running 10.4 also.
    • teradome, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14I've got a Powerbook G3 from 1999. No hardware upgrades were ever required for me to move from OS 8 (which shipped on it) and Mac OS X, which I run today.

      I'm sure someone will point out 10.4 won't install on a G3, but as macosxhints has shown, there's a simple trick to get it to install.

      Not saying it's fast, but I AM saying it WORKS. The ad ain't lying.
    • geoken, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3@missflibbles

      You're right, it really only matters who came to market first. But if company B all of a sudden started saying "hey look at company a, we came out with a handle and now they're copying our idea" wouldn't you feel that company b was being dishonest?
    • franksands, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12I think the surgery ad has a very valid argument: if you will buy a new computer because of vista, why not buy a mac? You will have all features of vista, that were developed 6 years ago.
    • geoken, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5"Now, perhaps I'm just being naive, but I don't know of any specific features that MS demoed in early builds of Vista before Apple released them. If you can point me to a specific example (more would be better), then I'll concede those, but from where I'm sitting, Apple had things released long before Microsoft decided it should appear in Vista."

      This is a review of a longhorn preview build from '02. Look at the pics, and read the review. The sidebar is right there for all to see. Instant search is there.
      http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/longhorn_alpha.asp

      http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/longhorn_4015.asp

    • Balanced, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I run 10.4 on a G4/400 at home. Or is a 450? I'm honestly not sure. Not the peppies machine, and I'd like to make it a dedicated server, btu no cash for a new machine right now.
    • awhiteflame, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@strictnein "And how is that any different than what Apple offers? Not a lot of people running OSX on their original G3 or G4s. The performance is absolute crap. And good luck upgrading those."

      I run OS X Tiger on my 7-year-old Powerbook G4 @ 450 MHz. Performance is great.

      Your point?
    • BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13I don't know why you're digging down the Mac user here, I don't even use a Mac, but he's right about the Vista features.

      Here's one or two of the Vista features that already existed when they first touted them, and other stuff they bear a striking resemblance to.

      Aero Glass windecs/style - Aqua, plastik, Mosfet's Liquid etc.
      3D accelerated desktop - Apple's desktop had OpenGL (and don't forget Xgl/AIGLX)
      Sidebar - just like KDE sidebar, which predates the first vista beta by a long time
      WinFS/desktop search - spotlight, google desktop etc. (haven't included beagle since it was too late to the party imho)
      Always on desktop widgets - SuperKaramba/GDesklets/Apple Dashboard widgets
      XAML GUIs - XUL GUIs
      online automatic updates - online automatic updates.
      "Avalon" - Gnome project's Cairo
      New graphical firewall management - linux/Os X firewall configuration tools
      IE7's new features all appear in Firefox or Konqueror
      Network Explorer - Bonjour
      BitLocker - FSE

      I'm sure I missed a few, but you get the point. Give the guy a break, digging people down for being right just because they're an Apple fan is extremely lame.
    • yournamehere, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4and for the final argument...
      it's really simple: when you have 1000x the hardware configuration options to deal with streamlining everyone's PC to run as fast as possible is going to be a bit harder.
      Along the same lines: if you have ~90% of the market share of course you are going to be more vulnerable to attacks.

      What I have yet to see anyone do is match the number of issues, be it hardware of software with the number of possible variations for that particular hardware or software within it's given platform. That would be a better view of how well/stable MS is comparatively to Apple.

      No one in the "Apple" camp can deny the sheer magnitude of work it takes to keep every possible variation of hardware and/or software that is available to a PC running. That it boots up and is functional alone is amazing. That it works as well as it does given the number of permeations the OS has to endure, well that's just astounding
    • joelito, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3@ VargVikernes
      I understand those steps

      1. Make the OS run as slow as possible (Less Optimized code that's easier to maintain)
      2. Remove that slowness with every major release (Optimize the code and if possible, use the features of more recent compilers)
      3. ??? (Present those improvements over the years to your users that will keep buying the better version)
      4. Profit!
    • MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4BlackAdderIII, you list a large number of Vista features and their current counterparts, but neglect that many of those were in Longhorn betas before their counterparts existed.
    • msgyrd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1"it's really simple: when you have 1000x the hardware configuration options to deal with streamlining everyone's PC to run as fast as possible is going to be a bit harder."

      I won't say that Apple supports a massive amount of hardware, but at the same time, Windows doesn't either. The difference? Companies write drivers and packages them with their products for MS, Apple is expected to "just work". As for hardware combinations of system components, I think Apple wins this by being able to run OSX on G3s, G4s, G5s, and x86, along with the dozens ATI and NVidia cards they've used over the years (Intel now as well), and the various memory types that have ranged just as much as PCs have. Wireless cards have changed in macs several times, and hard drives really don't matter.
    • Elranzer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Sure the upgrade from Tiger to Leopard will not require as big of a hardware difference as XP to Vista, but then again Leopard is a very minor upgrade to Mac OS X compard to how large an upgrade Vista is to Windows. Leopard consists of Time Machine, a more streamlined theme, and... that's about it. Though Apple *will* tell you that "with over 150 new features, it's like getting a whole new Mac!"*

      *(Apple considered .decimil updates to invisible server-side software such as Apache a "new feature.")
    • yournamehere, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1msgyrd,
      you are either:
      A) kidding
      B) delusional

      if it's B, I have a nice white jacket with extra long sleeves for you to wear. also, it comes with a matching white fluffy room.
    • BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@MioTheGreat

      No, if you run down that list you'll see that by and large you're wrong - the "longhorn betas" were exactly what I was talking about, which is why I didn't mention Xgl or Beagle as primary examples/at all.

      I can't edit that post, so allow me to say here that most of those existed prior to the longhorn betas.

      You may be able to get stuff like Cairo, although the same sort of technology was in development/existence on KDE, OS X and Gnome prior to the first longhorn beta, and was certainly not conceived of by Microsoft - as with all of the other features listed.
    • posure, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The thing that really bothered me about the commercial was that Apple thinks that having to upgrade your computer is a bad thing. At least with PC's we have the ability to upgrade, rather than having to pay $2000-3000 every couple years for the "convenience" of not having to worry about hardware. That's always been one of the things I hated about Macs (although I'm enjoying my new MacBook Pro ;).
  • greatromance, on 10/12/2007, -25/+25"We made it way harder for guys to do exploits. The number [of violations] will be way less because we’ve done some dramatic things [to improve security] in the code base. Apple hasn’t done any of those things."

    Why is that? Apple is so lazy, right? Or maybe it's because they built OS X the right way, from the ground up built around security so they wouldn't run into the problems Microsoft created THEMSELVES! Way to go Billy boy :)
  • totorototoro, on 10/12/2007, -21/+7"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine."

    "I dare you!! I double dog dare you!!!"
  • PJBonoVox, on 10/12/2007, -28/+37FTA :

    "Well, certainly we've done a better job letting you upgrade on the hardware than our competitors have done. You can choose to buy a new machine, or you can choose to do an upgrade. And I don't know why [Apple is] acting like it’s superior."

    I couldn't agree more.
    • Thuktun, on 10/12/2007, -12/+27"And I don't know why [Apple is] acting like it’s superior."

      Er, because that's what companies do to sell their product over their competitors' products, make themselves appear to be a superior product.
    • runeasgar, on 10/12/2007, -12/+23my powerbook g4 is still running great after 3 years.

      i've ugraded my g5's harddrive, video card and ram.. what else do i need to upgrade?

      i'm setting on a macbook pro that i guarantee you will still be running fantastic this time next year.

      i really, really fail to see his or your point.
    • spinemangler, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3"i really, really fail to see his or your point"

      You must be really stupid
    • Altotus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4On that front, Windows largely takes a backseat to Linux (particularly Vista).

      While there are occasional bits of hardware that are difficult to use with Linux, most requires absolutely no additional drivers or additional configuration. Further, Linux supports more hardware than Windows by a very large margin (in part because it also supports more CPUs and hardware specific to the platforms implementing those CPUs).
    • aristotle0dude, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I'm sorry but this myth has to be busted once and for all. It is true that you can "upgrade" a PC but if you are buying a new motherboard more than a year apart, you are most likely going to have to at least buy new ram and if you bought your last motherboard before the shift to SATA, you are also going to have to buy new drives as well. In the worst case scenario, you are better off selling or giving away your existing machine and buying all the parts for a new machine or buying a prebuilt model. Either way, you are effectively not upgrading anything.

      Macs can be upgraded with ram without voiding the warranty. Some models allow for drives to be easily swapped out of added to while other models can also be upgraded with larger drives once out of warranty. With the PowerMac and Mac Pro towers, you can also swap out the gfx card if you so wish and you have access to various expansion cards as well.

      I do not consider a different motherboard with new ram and drive interface technology to be an upgrade but rather a replacement since most of what you would have left from the old one would be either incompatible or potentially slow down the performance of your new motherboard if used.
    • PJBonoVox, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3"and if you bought your last motherboard before the shift to SATA, you are also going to have to buy new drives as well"

      Hi, *****, welcome to the real world. Find me a manufacturer that makes a whole range of x86 or x86-64 boards without IDE connectors, and your ***** status will be revoked. Until then, you're a *****.
    • aristotle0dude, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3@PJBonoVox: Are you trying to tell me that you are a ***** and a ***** because as far as I know, you don't know me from Adam. A motherboard may have IDE in addition to SATA but it is usually there for compatibility for IDE DVD readers/burners rather than to be used as the primary interface for your drives. Only a ***** would buy a new motherboard with SATA and continue using IDE for their main hard drives degrading performance of the new system below the spec.

      A sensible person would attach the old drives temporarily to the motherboard to transfer the data over or buy enclosures for the old drives to use them as extra external USB drives possibly. Having said that, it would probably make sense to assemble or buy a new machine, transfer the data over to the new machine, wipe the drives and either repurpose the old machine or get rid of it somehow.

      Building your own machine is not going to save you money if you factor in your time. It only makes sense if you have enough time on your hands and you enjoy doing it as a hobby.

      Thanks for playing asswipe.
    • PJBonoVox, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3Blimey, you are easily the biggest ***** I've seen on here in a while.

      Based on what you said, what part of your comment...

      "you are also going to have to buy new drives as well"

      ...is true?

      Because I upgrade my board I ABSOLUTELY MUST USE SATA or the world will implode! Make your mind up, either you have to buy new drives or you 'may' buy new drives.
    • aristotle0dude, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@PJBonoVox: Why bother upgrading in the first place if you are going to cheap out on one of the most critical components after RAM to system performance?

      The hard drive is what your system will access booting up, loading data an program. I would say the hard drive is even more important than your ram since most of your activities are going to be I/O based instead of CPU bound, getting stuff into ram from your hard drive is going to be the largest bottleneck for performance.

      Give up on the trolling already.
  • fr3nch13, on 10/12/2007, -22/+55"NEWSWEEK: If one of our readers confronted you in a CompUSA and said, “Bill, why upgrade to Vista?” what would be your elevator pitch?
    Bill Gates: The most effective thing would be if I could sit down with them and just take them through the new look for a couple of minutes, show them the Sidebar, show them the way the search lets you go through lots of things, including lots of photos. Set up a parental control. And then I might edit a high-definition movie and make a little DVD that's got photos. As I went through, they'd think"...

    “Wow, I can already do this on my Mac?”
    • geoken, on 10/12/2007, -24/+12Unless they don't have a Mac in which case they'll be thinking "I may be able to do this on a Mac but it's going to cost me 4x more than Vista"
    • mobilehavoc, on 10/12/2007, -22/+11Pretty good chance the other people on the elevator wouldn't be Mac users given the small amount of people that actually use a Mac.
    • runeasgar, on 10/12/2007, -17/+22you're forgetting all the people that have to upgrade their computer just to get the "fancy"(ugh) aero interface and purchase the vista install, especially with wga running rampant now.

      neverminding that an old g4 powerbook with a 1.25ghz processor, 128mb of vid ram and 512mb of ram runs os x really well.. something that certainly can't be said for vista.

      don't be fooled.. all they did was skin xp and move things around a bit, then slap aero on top of it. it's the same garbage they've been putting out since the NT kernel was released, because they've never scrapped it and started over like they should have.
    • rookkoss, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5did you ever check the price tag of a) a Macs and a similarly equipped PC and b) Windows Vista?
    • Toxyc, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6I ran Vista RC2 on an old Dell 600m with about the specs you listed ....it ran just fine.
    • masterofNone, on 10/12/2007, -8/+14"Unless they don't have a Mac in which case they'll be thinking "I may be able to do this on a Mac but it's going to cost me 4x more than Vista"

      right. until you factor in all the anti-virus software they'd need to buy. and the anti-malware software. and the firewall software. and the it consultant they'd need to provide tech support. and all the extra memory and faster processors necessary to overcome that speed and memory hits all the anti-virus software takes on the system...

      annd all the lost productivity time... oh wait... that's not a problem 'cuz they'll just be playing games that look better on an XBox anyway.

      but yeah. way cheaper.
    • strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3@runeasgar:
      Your "old" Powerbook is from mid-2003... I struggle to see how that is considered old hardware. At that time Intel was putting out Pentium 4s that ran at 2.4-3.2GHz. Easily powerful enough to run anything Vista does.
    • Damhna, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Or they would be wondering why this guy is sitting down in an elevator
    • praisethelard, on 06/06/2008, -3/+3@masterofNone
      "that's not a problem 'cuz they'll just be playing games that look better on an XBox anyway."

      That line is total BS. Also, I'm currently running XP (and various Linux distros in dual boot) and the only piece of anti virus is free (AVG) and doesn't hog resources. In the time I've been running XP, I've yet to get a virus. In fact, I don't think AVG has even warned me of potential problems.
    • TRexALot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9How does somebody that successful come up with an elevator pitch that dull?
  • macdaddy23, on 10/12/2007, -42/+11Bill Gates is just like George Bush. Lie lie lie.
    • g4r3thw, on 10/12/2007, -16/+8rather, Bill Gates is just like every other businessman. Lie lie lie.
    • macdaddy23, on 10/12/2007, -19/+4Now looks digging me down. Microsoft Fanboys!!!!
    • Latimer, on 10/12/2007, -13/+15Must George Bush be brought into every single Digg conversation???? Grow up......
    • postaldave, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3no, you are being dugg down for being a *****.
  • jstohler, on 10/12/2007, -8/+4Way to go Digg -- we crashed the Brightcove embedded media player.
  • SirBotchness, on 10/12/2007, -28/+16Jesus Christ, no matter what he says it seems the macfags can't be satisfied unless gates says his product sucks and apple is awesome. It's pretty easy to sway a conversation your way when you only ask questions about the competition. People don't go to the Nike developers and ask them what they think of the Reebok advertisements.
    • runeasgar, on 10/12/2007, -14/+29who needs bill to say that? I have os x, vista, ubuntu and xp running on my laptop.. and there is VERY little question as to which is the best; os x, hands down. i don't need gates to tell me that.
    • SirBotchness, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4it's all a matter of opinion. Unless you want to buy me a whole new computer to test OS X. Otherwise i would have done so with my 2 computers.
    • ArchonSG, on 10/12/2007, -17/+11I find it funny that Apple fan boys / Ms haters like to quote that "Apple is better" blah blah blah...
      Right.
      Here's a clue, its "better" when it has market dominance, no mater how cool you think OSxxx is, no mater how "advanced" anyone might claim it is, its only better when its has the numbers to back it up.
      What's the percentage of the World's Market share running Apple OS again?
      For the moment Microsoft has that huge market share and like it or not, Apple isn't going to topple that any time soon, based on what its able to do and its compatibility score.

      No one wants to give Microsoft its dues because its not cool to defend Microsoft but you know what, the day when I can install Apple's OS on any system I want within reason of course and have drivers running on it, play current of the games out for the computer platform and do everything without the OS going bonkers, I'd say Apple OS is the better system.
      Its easy to make a "stable and safe" proprietary OS that will only run on proprietary hardware, its another to do what Microsoft has done, which is essentially the first to make an OS that works on a Global scale both in terms of hardware as well as software development. Only Linux has come close to that mark but its the red headed step child that's still looking for its chance to break out. Apple OS isn't anywhere near.

      I have systems running Linux, Windows and yes...Apple OS and I feel that each has its own benefits and pitfalls and think that anyone who is hung up on worshiping any OS really has more issues then he or she would like to admit.
      Vista has been running without a hitch on my PC, nothing to complain here and I *still* am able to do MORE on my PC then on my Mac, and yes I have been gaming quite a bit on it too, on my PC I mean.
      Grow up, bash at MS when you actually have something to bash about, most of the bashing done to Vista is just childish at best.
    • missflibbles, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5archon, market share does not indicate how good something is. It indicates how many people like it enough to use it. There are plenty of things that have been really popular, but were actually pretty *****. My case in point: the Holocaust.
      Not saying MS is *****, necessarily, just pointing out the hole in your argument.

      /hitler reference.
    • drlha, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4ArchonSG: I'd love to live in your world where the best product is always the most successful one. Sadly that world doesn't exist in reality.
    • SirBotchness, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2Great, people comparing MS to the holocaust, love the level of intelligence here.
    • ArchonSG, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6@missflibbles
      I would agree on your point that being popular doesn't necessarily means better but your parallels using the holocaust isn't exactly right.
      For one thing, you aren't using it in a global context. The only people who thought that the holocaust was the right thing to do were the hardcore Nazis while the rest of the world didn't think so.

      So in that context, wouldn't Apple in this case be the hardware Nazis since they don't allow their users a choice of what hardware they want to put in, allow them to do exactly how they want their personal computers to be configured the way their users want to and to do anything they want with any software they want?
      Unless you think I can go out and buy OSx, install it on a system with an Asus Mb, Core 2 Duo CPU, SLI Nvidia Cards or the 8800GTX, run RAID 5 with SATA drives, have an additional Devices for backup, HD Tuner / Cable Card and have HD audio and it'll support all of that without a hitch? Run all my games, work as my DVR, all using hardware and software I want to use?
      No?

      There's a reason why Windows at the moment, have more support then Apple has, its not because its the best but at the least it does give users a choice to do what they want with their PC which oddly enough means Personal Computer, as in Personal, private and individually yours .
      Its just too bad that Microsoft made the mistake of thinking that "ease of use" was far more important than "securely use" and thus opened their OS to the justifiably bad press they have been getting.
    • ksgant, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9So I guess "Titanic" is the best movie ever made because it's got the most market-share of any other movie. It wins.
    • polyfrolic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1ArchonSG

      Please don't start believing your own propaganda. The reality is that the world either did not give a ***** about the jews or they enjoyed watching them die. It was a convenient solution to a perceived problem they had had for over a thousand years.

      The world (sans USA) went to war to stop germanys military conquest of europe. It had nothing at all to do with the jews. No part of the war was fought to protect the jews. The headlines of "saving the jews from concentration camps" only appeared at the final stage of the war. Germany had been all but beaten and the allies wanted a propaganda tool to pull at the heart strings and to vilify any remaining german commanders.

      America treated jews pretty badly as well during the period if you look at the history books.

      While it was easy the world went along with the Holocaust. So it seems like a good comparison since no one really likes Windows, but its a tool that isn't too painful to use for now.
    • ArchonSG, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@polyfrolic
      Uhhh, I don't know how the conversation got to this point but I think you misunderstood me.
      My point was, no one else other then the hard core (read fanatical) Nazis thought killing innocent Jews (or insert any other race, religion if you prefer) was a good thing.
      No one caring about what's happening to your neighbor isn't the same as cheering and dragging them off to concentration camps, though, its not that far off as someone far wiser and greater said:
      "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
      - Edmund Burke

      Someone came up with a Holocaust parallel and I was just pointing out that it wasn't an accurate nor good comparison.
  • Hayl, on 10/12/2007, -28/+19He is a dinosaur, just like the entire company. It is people like Bill Gates (Dinosaurs) who have run Microsoft into the ground. They refuse to think ahead or do things properly from the first place. These types of people are also the same types who have run the American Auto Industry into the ground.

    If they had used a Unix security model in the first place, and never invented Actve X, then they would not have all these problems that they have now. They are morons. I may be wrong but from what I can see, Vista is a hack to the previous poop that they released. They need to entirely rewrite their kernel and implement a real security model, rtather than slap more layers of code to hack a fix for broken crap.

    They need to fire all their upper management and get people with vision running Microsoft or it will continue to decline. Unfortunate cnsidering how they were originaly the "underdog" that fought their way to the top.
    • strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -14/+18Man, it's funny that you think you have a clue about what you're talking about.
    • tackle, on 10/12/2007, -9/+22Bill Gates ran Microsoft into the ground???

      What are you smoking??
    • LLamaStar, on 10/12/2007, -8/+6rofl what the hell are you talking about?
    • idiggeverything, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2retard
    • DagMX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3whats funny though is the fact that microsoft does have those dinosaur ads for MS Office...
  • akinder, on 10/12/2007, -22/+13Oh god, I can hear the 'net straining under the 800,000 Apple fanboys that are about to attack this story
    • tackle, on 10/12/2007, -16/+6800,000 Apple fanboys?

      more like 800.
    • jakebarnes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11The word "fanboy" is stupid.
    • akinder, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1hahah see, proof positive. Apparently the word fanboy is only stupid when referring to the holiness, Apple. If it's Microsoft, then they're called fanidiots, astroturfers, etc.

      Keep drinking the Koolaid kids.
  • SirZRX, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10"So you feel in 2010-2011 Microsoft will be back with the next big one?
    Absolutely. We'll tell you how Vista just wasn't good enough, and we'll know why, too. We need to wait and hear what consumers have to tell us. We don't know that, otherwise, of course, we would have done it this time. "
    Lie, i have seen a lot of feedback of the beta 1, beta 2 , pre-RTM and RTM in some forums about what to change and what is really wrong, before the release, ill call ***** on this one!
    • runeasgar, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14actually the mac ads are pretty spot-on. most of the people in the world aren't on digg, or as tech savvy as the people on digg.

      for the people that fail to run their window's computer flawlessly, or build their own computers, or hack whatever software they want; the ads are absolutely correct.
  • Tmacman, on 10/12/2007, -8/+32Hey Bill, why so defensive about the Mac? I mean, you own 90% of the OS world. Lighten up.
    • geoken, on 10/12/2007, -6/+29Maybe it has something to do with the interviewer directly asking him a question about macs.
    • tackle, on 10/12/2007, -28/+20Just because he "owns" 90% of the OS world, it doesnt mean he has to put up with BS. And, we all know how the Mac ads are full of BS.
    • Fridrik, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5This is marketing, not a trial. The Apple ads are *****, what Bill Gates said in this interview is pretty much all *****. That's the cold truth, kids.
    • Gatesophile, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5It's because the whole Apple vs. Microsoft thing is still stuck in his head. He's determined to keep beating Steve Jobs, which is fine by me.

      Competition fuels better products on both ends.
  • runeasgar, on 10/12/2007, -9/+15Jealousy is cute.
    • tackle, on 10/12/2007, -21/+8You mean, Mac Fanboys jealosy on Vista? Yup, it is iCute(tm).
    • nwoolls, on 10/12/2007, -12/+5Yes, it is.*


      *See Mac ads.
  • Supernova36, on 10/12/2007, -12/+12I don't know if you know this, but Steve Jobs invented the world, and then the rest of us came along.
    • mwitlo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14""Steve Jobs invented the world" -Bill Gates

      its in the article
    • stoppedcode12, on 10/12/2007, -0/+115 bucks that the quote will make it to macworld
    • n00bst3r, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1The only reason that quote would make it to MacWorld is if the biggest self righteous ***** in the world ran Apple....

      Oh wait, its 2007..

  • brocklese, on 10/12/2007, -10/+21wow he really comes off egotistical.. he needs to relax a bit and listen to an ipod or something...
  • damienoneill, on 10/12/2007, -12/+7The features, which Gates says were in Vista first, were demoed 6 months before the Vista release by Steve Jobs at WWDC. Vista obviously had this features in before the release of OS 10.4 but the pre-release of that pre-dates the Vista one by at least those 6 months.

    • strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -10/+14Those features were demoed by MS in 2002-2003. Nice try.
    • colincornaby, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8"Those features were demoed by MS in 2002-2003. Nice try."

      As a WWDC attending developer, I have to agree. Apple gets brownie points for having a nicer implementation, but MS was first in demoing advanced searching and so forth. It bothers me every time Apple makes a "photocopier" comment.
    • aamir2, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10Actually all these feature were demoed and LAUNCHED in Mac OS X Tiger more than 2 years ago, upon seeing which Microsoft's Jim Alchin in 2004 said that if he did not work for Microsoft he would buy a Mac. Nice try!
    • gsnedders, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16… and Apple shipped indexed searching in Mac OS 8.6 in the '90s. BeOS had indexed search also in the '90s. MS didn't invent it.
    • colincornaby, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2"Actually all these feature were demoed and LAUNCHED in Mac OS X Tiger more than 2 years ago, upon seeing which Microsoft's Jim Alchin in 2004 said that if he did not work for Microsoft he would buy a Mac. Nice try!"

      Microsoft demoed those features in the early versions of Vista, which was around the time of 10.2 or 10.3.
    • deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Apple had a feature called "Sherlock" which was the precursor to Spotlight. It dates back to System 8.5 (1997)
  • oldJimSteele, on 10/12/2007, -21/+6mac can blow me.
  • writh3n, on 10/12/2007, -6/+30I bought a mac once, it was ***** out of control. It came out of the box and punched me in the month, stole my car, and proceeded to pick up hookers in it. I called the police and they eventually caught him, but by that time he had already beheaded 4 of the hookers he had picked up and was all strung out on coke.

    Oh wait, this is a box full of plastic and metal, it has as much personality as every other box of metal and plastic.
    • tisfl37, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3It punched you in the "month"?? Still dugg you up dude... funniest post out here.
  • jmontes, on 10/12/2007, -18/+12What a boring, uncool guy Bill Gates is. No charisma whatsoever.
    • Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -18/+24What, and Turtleneck Jobs has charisma? "One more thing...I am the iMessiah." (smirk)
    • svartgotik, on 10/12/2007, -20/+7He might have no charisma, but let's do a test. You and Bill Gates are in a room and are asked by a person what you would like to be doing right now. You mention how you're like to fly into space and be the first person to land on Mars. The interviewer nods his head, and then commends you on your answer.

      Bill Gates says that he'd like to put a pile of a billion dollars in the middle of the floor, and then pay a thousand girls one million dollars each to be cornholed DRY by him on that stack of money. The interviewer then drops to his knees and sucks BIll Gate's uncharismatic ***** off, because he knows one guy in the room is able to pull off his dream.
    • qualish, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9@ svartgotik

      Scary... you've actually put some thought into that very disturbing post.
    • neuropsychguy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Yes, Steve Jobs has charisma. He has to be one of the most charismatic personas in the public spotlight. Where do you think the term "reality distortion field" really means? It means he has so much charisma he could make you think a pile of elephant crap is the greatest thing ever as he talks about it - that is charisma.
    • UbuntuX, on 10/12/2007, -14/+7For the richest dude in the world Bill Gates seems quite normal.... Sorry I like my MAC and XP but ***** Steve Job is a tool. The guy is SO pretentious I can smell his Tommy Hilfiger thru my computer screen.

      Here is ODE poem to Steve....

      From the hills of Syria he came...
      Abdulfattah Jandali came to the land of plenty to remain sane.
      And Mustaffa came in to the world yet sadly rejected by his parents as he tried to patent his birth
      But John and Clara came into play
      ready to save the day
      and teach the young boy of the great American virtue
      despite being a tosser you can always sue
      So one day his Shwarma spaketh onto him and said...
      Slippery Steve its in your genes, you should belittle others
      if they prove you wrong and put you in a spot of bother.
      But Slippery Steve, wiping his snotty nose on his sleeve
      Said no Great Kebab: I will travel to India to find my origins
      But his Shwarma pointed out that he was actually from the Middle East
      But Steve refused to give and sued the horrid beast.. (after all Middle East and India whats the difference?)
      Back on the opportunistic shores
      Slippery Steve met up with a real original called WOZNIAK,
      a dude who was running in the same circles as Gates and Allen, you can call them BRANIACS
      But they offended the slippery one because their club was exclusive and not for wannabes...
      And Slippery Steve devised a plan that would make Pope Benedict look like a sneak
      He greased old Woz's ego
      he was better than it than the Great footballer Luis Figo
      And WOZ a shy man fell for this HOOK LINE AND SINKER
      Because like Sam says about Golum, this guy is a stinker..
      6 years down the line WOZ wants a life, like most exploited geeks do
      but Steve would not let his golden Calf go, so he threatened to SUE.
      But Woz was strong and broke the chain,
      and Steve threatened the whole electronics industry to ease his own fear and pain
      He stated if any of you Bozos hire WOZ
      I will swat you down like a pathetic MOZ....... (slang for Mosquito)
      Finally his ego became too much
      and even Apple agreed it as such
      So they fired his ass and showed life without the Jobs
      was tough because products in all shapes or sizes are just products.
      But they needed the Steve charm because he could make them equal...
      where their products struggled to do so....
      And back he came and thank God for Jonathan Ives
      Because without HIS Ipod Apple would be in the DIVES
      But Steve kept on screaming ME ME ME ME ME ME
      and he showed the IPHONE and said its great SEE SEE SEE SEE
      Well Steve we can see the IPHONE is your testament
      because its as outdated as a civil war cavalry regiment....

      So go back to your macrobiotic diet, your Hilfiger smell
      go back to your Guru and let him tell you the truth as clear as Bell...

      ---- Fools generally expose themselves, but not to other fools... And Steve let me tell you one other thing..... If a FOOL is down you kick him.

      Steve Jobs is a mean s.o.b. Any person that does what he did to WOZ, HIS OWN 'BEST' friend should not be allowed in civilized company!

      (ALL QUOTED INFO FROM WIKIPEDIA)