Donkeys and Elephants and Delegates,oh my!
Check out the most popular
Ebay To Ban Negative Feedback Ratings
news.bbc.co.uk — Online auctioneer eBay plans to change its feedback system and ban sellers from leaving negative comments.
BloggerJohn- 3299 diggs
- digg it
- SpencerLavery, on 02/05/2008, -72/+515Completely agree with this move. I'm sick of Sellers emailing me post-auction stating "leave me feedback and I will leave you feedback". Bollocks. I've paid, I've completed my end of the deal, therefore feedback is due now! Any seller that holds me to ransom over feedback like that gets an earful and a complaint to eBay. Nice to see they're finally listening.
- coheedcollapse, on 02/05/2008, -5/+147I'm not sure where I stand on this issue. I'm just sick of people who obviously haven't ever shopped online leaving me bad feedback. I sold all of my school books last year and some girl gave me negative feedback because apparently she expected $3.00 media mail to get my book across the country in two days. It was my first negative feedback, but I would have been pissed if I couldn't respond.
On the other hand I'm always scared to leave negative feedback on items that are obviously not what was stated in the auction as well in fear of retaliation.- Awspire, on 02/05/2008, -73/+5Sounds like you didn't sufficiently detail the shipping costs.
- lf120781, on 02/05/2008, -1/+36The problem wasn't detailing the cost it's that in order to send something to a buyer so that it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg is if you send it via Media Mail. Unless they paid for express delivery they shouldn't expect to get there item in any thing under a week. They obviously never shopped on-line before.
- mlwarrior, on 02/06/2008, -1/+3I think the best solution would be to take away negative feedback, but allow sellers to make comments on feedback they have been given.
- rebrad, on 02/06/2008, -1/+2I have to agree. This is a bad move for eBay. I think that for sellers to survive with some of the really bad buyers they will have to develop code words to describe the real low life. That way you can ban them from your auctions and since eBay did more than double the people that you can ban this will be the only option remaining. That is lots of work though and the seller is bound to get bitten. eBay needs to rethink this. They say that they want more buyers but if the sellers start to leave there won't be as much to buy.
- coheedcollapse, on 02/05/2008, -0/+36Actually, I sold via half.com (an affiliate of ebay that still uses the feedback system). I mentioned in the listing that the item would be sent via media mail unless they specified that they'd like to use another method. On the same listing I also stated that while media mail will usually arrive in a couple days, it can take up to a few weeks. The book got to her house in 7 days.
That and before you leave negative feedback on half.com it says "Before you leave negative feedback remember that media mail may take up to 2 weeks to arrive!".- ThE0eNiGmA, on 02/05/2008, -0/+19I ship books online through Amazon, and it is amazing how naive people can be about shipping speeds.
- siszam, on 02/05/2008, -4/+11Buyers agree to my clearly stated shipping by placing a bid. If they don't like it then they shouldn't bid, but they do and they still complain about the cost. Now buyers will hold sellers hostage and Paypal can hold our money longer for negs. A sellers only protection was the ability to leave negative feedback. Now we are at the mercy of the occasional mentally ill buyer who wants an after the sell discount or else. As a seller I don't leave feedback first because I won't leave positive till I'm sure you're not a scammer or a nutcase.
- MtheoryX, on 02/05/2008, -3/+4Exactly the reason I got out of the biz. Complete waste of time.
- lf120781, on 02/05/2008, -1/+36The problem wasn't detailing the cost it's that in order to send something to a buyer so that it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg is if you send it via Media Mail. Unless they paid for express delivery they shouldn't expect to get there item in any thing under a week. They obviously never shopped on-line before.
- Godlike, on 02/05/2008, -4/+29That's when currently, you as the seller get to leave feedback for her stating "Buyer does not seem to understand that selecting cheaper shipping means a longer wait".
- kahrytan, on 02/05/2008, -13/+3 Not necessary true. It depends on where you live. The difference between First Class and Priority mail shipping to hawai`i is, well, nothing. All First Class and Priority mail are flown to hawai`i. I assume it is the same for Alaska since they don't use trucks to send goods to Alaska.
First Class mail is NOT TO BE confused with parcel or media mail. Though, one can get lucky with a small lightweight box being flown but only if room on the plane.
- kahrytan, on 02/05/2008, -13/+3 Not necessary true. It depends on where you live. The difference between First Class and Priority mail shipping to hawai`i is, well, nothing. All First Class and Priority mail are flown to hawai`i. I assume it is the same for Alaska since they don't use trucks to send goods to Alaska.
- Moses27, on 02/05/2008, -3/+7I don't know, I'm teetering both ways with the change. I like the idea of feedback, it lets me feel comfortable about buying something from someone if they have decent feedback. one or two bad feedback wont really bother me, I'll usually read the comments and make my own decision of whether or not I feel they had grounds to complain. I feel that, that sense of security will be gone, unless they have another design in mind to replace.
- t3soro, on 02/06/2008, -0/+6they are only banning SELLERS from leaving neg feedback, not buyers
- LeeSoong, on 02/05/2008, -11/+19More and more I think eBay is working With the Nigerian Scammers.
Banning negative feedback blocks open criticism of scammer accounts,
why would eBay work to protect the scammers ?- MacMan88, on 02/06/2008, -2/+13eBay's blocking SELLERs from giving negative feedback to BUYERs.
that way, if you leave negative feed for a seller but you did your part correctly & legitimately, they can't retaliate and give you negative feedback (when you should've deserved positive).
with that being said, if you buy stuff and the seller sucks, you still have the option to provide negative feedback. - nepawoods, on 02/06/2008, -0/+4Damn, it's one thing to not read the article, but you can't even read the one sentence description below the title???
"Online auctioneer eBay plans to change its feedback system and ban SELLERS from leaving negative comments." - shahadar, on 02/06/2008, -1/+4MacMan, Nepawoods - Lee has a legit point, many times a Nigerian Scammer has tried to pull a fast one on me acting as a BUYER (bidding really high, then trying to pay with a fake demand draft / escrow website).
- 11oops, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1So then you report them and Ebay immediately kills their account. If more sellers actually paid attention to the hundreds of warnings posted throughout Ebay's site then this wouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately the scammers target the low feedback sellers who don't know how to file the correct reports. And if they're dumb enough to fall for this obvious scam, are they smart enough to actually read the feedback of the winning bidder? If they think they're going to get $10,000 for their Wii, then nothing can help them.
- MacMan88, on 02/06/2008, -2/+13eBay's blocking SELLERs from giving negative feedback to BUYERs.
- wellyuk, on 02/06/2008, -7/+7I've had a similar experience of buying an external hard drive from Ebay. I paid for it, then noticed I hadn't updated my address, as I'd moved to a new city on a day or two previously. I contacted the seller immediately to let them know that I had a change of address.
After waiting around two weeks, I emailed the seller to let them know I hadn't received the item and they said it had been collected at my old address. I obviously responded and told them I'd emailed them with a change of address to which they replied "we only send products to registered addresses". Fair enough, but I did email them to let them know and said I wanted a refund and they would have to deal with getting the item back.
We then get into a week long dispute with paypal telling them I was in no position to collect the item and I wanted a refund. In the end, I had paypal refund my money, which was fine. A few days later, paypal responded saying that they had information that the item had been collected and I should issue a re-refund to the seller. So I explained AGAIN and said I wasn't going to pay them.
I had left a negative comment to the seller after all this had gone on, and the seller responded, with a negative comment, claiming paypal had sided with them. Wankers.
Between that and Paypal being a bunch of crooks, I've stopped using Ebay as much as I can. I will use it on rare, low priced occasions but I certainly won't be using it to sell anything. Anything of any value, I'll buy from Amazon.- slezzzter, on 02/06/2008, -3/+3You were wrong. Your recourse is with the person who collected your package, not the seller.
- wellyuk, on 02/06/2008, -1/+3No I wasn't wrong. I made it immediately clear that I had moved from that address and had assumed that they didn't have a problem with that as they didn't respond about the new address until I complained about not receiving the package.
- sparr, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2I disagree. The seller should not have shipped the item to the old address after the buyer gave the new address. They might have refused to ship to an un-confirmed addres, and there are many possible valid courses of action from that point, but shipping to the old address when under instructions not to is wrong.
- Kylyssa, on 02/13/2008, -0/+0How long was it between your payment and your email informing the seller of your change of address? If it was longer than a few hours you are penalizing them for being a fast shipper.
- slezzzter, on 02/06/2008, -3/+3You were wrong. Your recourse is with the person who collected your package, not the seller.
- Awspire, on 02/05/2008, -73/+5Sounds like you didn't sufficiently detail the shipping costs.
- acatzr800, on 02/05/2008, -25/+9Then maybe you should take your own advice and leave feedback since they're obviously requesting it...
- glasgowm, on 02/05/2008, -8/+203They should just make it so that neither comment can be seen until both are made.
ie: you don't know if you've been left negative feedback until you leave feedback. Doing it this would would ensure that the ratings would be a accurate view of the transaction rather than a seller simply leaving negative feedback because they received it.
They've simply taken the advantage away from the Seller - and given it to the buyer. It's shocking, the buyers already have to deal with eBays ridiculous fees (almost $7 per listing + 15% for every item sold)- AntzNZ, on 02/05/2008, -1/+20Holy *****, $7! On the trading site pretty much all of New Zealand uses, it's free to list, but they charge 55 cents to have your picture next to auction (necessary in most cases), and they take 5.5% of your sales, I thought that was greedy (I've paid over $100 for fees). eBay sound like *****.
- joshhan, on 02/05/2008, -4/+22Well, US $7 is really like .55 cents in NZ currency nowadays. :)
- AntzNZ, on 02/05/2008, -5/+217 U.S. dollars = 8.82501261 New Zealand dollars; not sure if my sarcasm meter is broken...
- makkaveli19, on 02/06/2008, -3/+2btw 0.55 cents means 0.0055 dollars. dumb ass
- kosibar, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1He works for Verizon.
- joshhan, on 02/07/2008, -0/+2@makkaveli19
Well, that makes my joke about the sad state of US currency even funnier, no? No need for name calling. It just makes you look immature. Amiright?
@AntzNZ
/just_kidding ;)
- joshhan, on 02/05/2008, -4/+22Well, US $7 is really like .55 cents in NZ currency nowadays. :)
- kahrytan, on 02/05/2008, -5/+27err .. idiot..." It's shocking, the buyers already have to deal with eBays ridiculous fees (almost $7 per listing + 15% for every item sold)"
The sellers have to deal with the fees. geeze.- Coffeedemon, on 02/06/2008, -0/+6He might have meant dealing with the fees by proxy of a ***** charging 15 dollars to ship a memory card when it clearly shows 98 cents on the package when you receive it just so the seller can recoup their costs and then some.
- kahrytan, on 02/06/2008, -1/+1Actually, Thats only if you goto post office to ship it. Paypal usps labels dont show the price.
- Coffeedemon, on 02/06/2008, -0/+6He might have meant dealing with the fees by proxy of a ***** charging 15 dollars to ship a memory card when it clearly shows 98 cents on the package when you receive it just so the seller can recoup their costs and then some.
- raynar, on 02/05/2008, -1/+12$7? What are you selling? I just sold on there and it was about $2...although that IS a lot. Somebody could make a lot of money if they duplicated eBay with no seller fees and ran off a few ads (tactfully placed)
- ryan00davis, on 02/06/2008, -0/+6kind of like craigslist?
- iamnos, on 02/05/2008, -0/+25That would have saved me (as a buyer) from negative feedback. I won an auction for a cell phone, and paid within minutes of the auction ending (as is my normal practice). Went through a bunch of annoying steps to give him my shipping address through some third party service.
The listing said 2-3 days until the item would be shipped. After a week I emailed, they said a couple more days. A few days go by, I email again, no response. Couple more days, I say if I don't have confirmation from the courier that the item has been shipped I'll be reversing payment. Items gets shipped that day.
When it finally shows up, its as ordered and everything is fine. I left NEUTRAL feedback saying seller took two weeks to ship. HIs excuse? I live in Canada and the auction ended the day before New Year's eve. So apparently, it took him 7 business days to figure out how to write a postal code, and "Canada" on the shipping label.
In return he leaves me negative feedback (the only non-positive one I have to date). I wish I could change my feedback to negative.- johnbellone, on 02/05/2008, -1/+12Unfortunately you can't leave neutral feedback in that sort of tone. The other person is basically going to hit you with a negative back. I've thought for years that the seller and the buyer shouldn't be able to see eachother's comments before both parties comment. So basically you are playing the waiting game until the other person comments so that you can flame them (even if it is the truth). Its not the way that it should work and it needs to be changed.
I don't agree with this. eBay should fix the system the right way and just hold the comments from appearing until the other person comments back. Then it displays them to both seller and buyer. If five days lapse, show one comment and disable the ability for the other party to comment back. Its your own fault you haven't commented by that point, anyway.- accelleron, on 02/06/2008, -0/+4The problem w/ this is that some disputes tend to last more than 5 days, and there are items that arrive DOA, and other things the buyer may want to comment on. Even 2 weeks, the 'limit' for media mail, wouldn't really be enough, because media mail might take 15 or 16 days, and the seller may take 3-4 days (assuming the worst). If you make a seller's comments not show up for 20 days, that seller effectively has 20 days of impunity to do what he will with no impact to his reputation, in other words serious abuse potential.
- mysql101, on 02/06/2008, -1/+3not being able to see your own feedback only means people will sign up with alternate accounts and use them to view their main account's feedback.
- 11oops, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2No, you can see your own feedback but leaving feedback is a double-blind system. When both parties leave feedback it is visible. For example, if the buyer leaves feedback it can't be seen by anyone until the seller leaves feedback. Therefore it can never be retaliatory. If one party doesn't ever leave feedback, then their score doesn't increase. Almost like an escrow account.
The seller's complaint with this is that 'most buyers don't leave feedback, so my score won't increase' but, duh, if most buyers don't leave feedback then sellers are already facing that problem. The current single-blind feedback system is that the buyer doesn't know the seller's feedback prior to posting, but the seller always knows what the buyer had to say.
- 11oops, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2No, you can see your own feedback but leaving feedback is a double-blind system. When both parties leave feedback it is visible. For example, if the buyer leaves feedback it can't be seen by anyone until the seller leaves feedback. Therefore it can never be retaliatory. If one party doesn't ever leave feedback, then their score doesn't increase. Almost like an escrow account.
- silikon2, on 02/06/2008, -0/+4They could make it so that the feedback isn't posted/shown at all to any account until both parties have left feedback, or the five days elapse.
- johnbellone, on 02/05/2008, -1/+12Unfortunately you can't leave neutral feedback in that sort of tone. The other person is basically going to hit you with a negative back. I've thought for years that the seller and the buyer shouldn't be able to see eachother's comments before both parties comment. So basically you are playing the waiting game until the other person comments so that you can flame them (even if it is the truth). Its not the way that it should work and it needs to be changed.
- unpolloloco, on 02/05/2008, -2/+4what are you selling?!?!?!?
listing fees are well under a buck, then ebay/paypal takes a percentage of the remainder- MtheoryX, on 02/05/2008, -1/+4PayPal also takes a percentage of your shipping costs as well. See, Ebay fees are based on the selling price, not including shipping. PayPal fees are taken of the total price, including shipping. The higher you charge for shipping, Ebay won't charge you, but PayPal will.
- munkyxtc, on 02/05/2008, -0/+7Ebay's fees are getting completely out of hand. I just recently started selling again and honestly, it's just not worth it for people who nickel and dime; if you are a powerseller then the site is geared towards you; they don't care about the small timer. of the last 20 items I've over the last few weeks and I've had 7 non paying bidders; which means, I needed to open a complaint with ebay, wait over a week and then finally have my final fee credit; I lose the listing fee [usually $2.30ish]; I then need to list the item again; pay the fee AGAIN, and hope this time the seller comes through; if not I'm out another $2.30 -- add to that for $50 final price they take another 2.12; if I take paypal, that's another $1.75; all told for one $50 item I pay $8.50 in fees; that's 17% in fees. Now take into account the time I spend packing and shipping, replying to emails [typical business stuff] it's really not worth the time or effort unless you are either 1) selling a LOT of items, 2) selling stolen goods, at which point selling price doesn't really matter, it's all profit. On top of it, if a seller stiffs me I have no recourse. The whole legally binding contract when you buy is complete BS; you are on your own trying to track down people who bid and run; all of which cost the seller more in the end. Sometimes I think ebay caters to the scammers.
- crossmr, on 02/06/2008, -0/+6I've raised this point before. A blind feedback system is the only way to solve this. People are afraid to leave power sellers negative feedback. How does it hurt them? They have 30,000 feedback..what's 1? nothing..however as a low volume buyer, 1 retaliatory negative feedback can be quite a blemish. I'm really surprised though that ebay is finally doing something to hurt their precious power sellers who run all over their policies.
- whozis, on 02/09/2008, -0/+0People just aren't getting it! eBay is not hurting their PowerSellers, but helping them! It is the small sellers who are being hurt, and I think that it is on purpose. eBay is evolving into a "Professional" marketplace for large dollar sellers. Big sellers aren't hurt by a few negatives from buyers, but small sellers are. Fees are already so high that really low-priced items items cannot make the seller a profit. You think that this is accidental? I don't! Some buyers leave feedback for no good reason--it happened to me. I had 100% rating until a lady in Italy felt like it took too long for the postal service to deliver an item--and there is a good chance it got held up in customs--so she left me a negative, although I shipped it the NEXT DAY after she paid, and it was clearly dated on the postal stamp! This is the kind of thing that makes sellers cringe, not to mention scammers! Why not set up a dispute mechanism to discuss unfair negatives before they are counted? It doesn't have to be mandatory, but should be available if desired. They don't want to spend money on the manpower to do something like this! I could have submitted a copy of the postal receipt showing that it shipped the next day, and therefore the criticism was invalid. They could have removed it!
- samcrut, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2Exactly what I was going to suggest Glasgowm. Feedback escrow. You leave yours. They leave theirs. Only then do the feedbacks get posted so they can be viewed.
I'd add a time limit. If a buyer leaves feedback but the seller doesn't, the seller has 30 days to provide feedback. After 30 days, the seller forfeits their right to leave feedback on that transaction and the buyer's feedback gets posted without retaliation.
My only non-positive feedback was retaliation for me giving the seller a neutral feedback. I bought something that he said should be functional, but it was sold "as is" and it arrived DOA. I wasn't mad, but I wasn't going to give him positive feedback for sending me a brick. Neutral seemed the logical feedback. Even though I paid him immediately and was the perfect buyer, he retaliated. Feedback escrow would have prevented that scenario. - kjcdude, on 02/12/2008, -0/+1I'm selling a $1,500 switch and it costs $6.50, i'm also selling games and it costs only $1.50 or so to list. No idea where you're getting your numbers.
- AntzNZ, on 02/05/2008, -1/+20Holy *****, $7! On the trading site pretty much all of New Zealand uses, it's free to list, but they charge 55 cents to have your picture next to auction (necessary in most cases), and they take 5.5% of your sales, I thought that was greedy (I've paid over $100 for fees). eBay sound like *****.
- davidrools, on 02/05/2008, -19/+27This just forces sellers to take care of their buyers, give them what they paid for, package things well, and ship promptly. I totally agree and I think that it will indeed lead to a better experience for buyers and more professional behavior from sellers.
- slantyeyed, on 02/05/2008, -14/+1But what if sellers do NOT take care of their buyers? If you get burned by one seller, there's no way to warn anyone else? So there's only going to be positive feedback ratings? What if you had 10 positives (but 100 negatives that aren't shown), would it be safe to deal with that seller?
- Godlike, on 02/05/2008, -2/+3How about removing the feedback system as the primary measure of buying safety on ebay?
- Inquisition, on 02/05/2008, -2/+8They aren't removing the buyer's ability to post negatively, just the seller.
Sounds like standard retail to me. A person can complain about Shop XYZ to the Better Business Bureau, but Shop XYZ can't post bad comments about the customer there or anywhere else.- foxter, on 02/05/2008, -4/+8eBay works. We can all agree on this one thing. Why would you go ahead and ruin it by taking away the sellers' rights in favor of having to go through mommy (eBay) in order to punish bad buyers? I for one don't need mommy to do my bidding, so to speak, for me. When you have the government subsidizing your business, the customer IS ALWAYS RIGHT. HOWEVER, when you have your own business, the customer is not always right--the customer is sometimes a moron and I need to let every other seller know that. If eBay starts paying me money to be a seller, I will reconsider my opinion.
- niceyuk, on 02/05/2008, -0/+5Also ebays complaints procedure is useless, just try getting a negative feedback retracted... its virtually impossible.
I had been trading on ebay for years and had a 100% positive rating, then some moron left me bad feedback because he couldn't read the title and description of my auction. I would have given him a full refund but he left me bad feedback without contacting me to complain. I checked the guys feedback a few days later and it was -2 but ebay still wouldnt take the negative feedback off my profile.
I've given up selling stuff on ebay, there customer service sucks, the fees are becoming extortionate and paypal are also scam artists. - InferiorWang, on 02/06/2008, -1/+4I once had an ebay seller claim I never paid, not send me my stuff, and leave me negative feedback. I got my feedback taken care of, but I was never able to get my money back.
- niceyuk, on 02/05/2008, -0/+5Also ebays complaints procedure is useless, just try getting a negative feedback retracted... its virtually impossible.
- luciferin, on 02/05/2008, -0/+9This is based on the idea that all the buyer has to do is pay for their product. They either pay or they don't; you don't loose anything if they don't. Whereas if a seller doesn't ship you're out that cash.
- petard, on 02/06/2008, -1/+4We do lose huge, we have to pay fees even if they dont pay!
- 11oops, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2No you don't. If you file an unpaid item report, the final value fees are retracted. You're then allowed to make a second chance offer to other bidders (in which case you will be charged FVFs) or relist (at no additional charge unless the item doesn't sell) just as you would if no one had bid.
Unfortunately, your knowledge of Ebay is the problem -- the sellers don't know the rules, policies, and procedures to which they have agreed to adhere to.
- 11oops, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2No you don't. If you file an unpaid item report, the final value fees are retracted. You're then allowed to make a second chance offer to other bidders (in which case you will be charged FVFs) or relist (at no additional charge unless the item doesn't sell) just as you would if no one had bid.
- foxter, on 02/05/2008, -4/+8eBay works. We can all agree on this one thing. Why would you go ahead and ruin it by taking away the sellers' rights in favor of having to go through mommy (eBay) in order to punish bad buyers? I for one don't need mommy to do my bidding, so to speak, for me. When you have the government subsidizing your business, the customer IS ALWAYS RIGHT. HOWEVER, when you have your own business, the customer is not always right--the customer is sometimes a moron and I need to let every other seller know that. If eBay starts paying me money to be a seller, I will reconsider my opinion.
- vertinox, on 02/05/2008, -1/+5What if that isn't enough for the buyer? Or they purposely attempt to extort the buyer beyond what the pay for. I don't use ebay to buy or sell things anymore (I use Amazon), but when I did I have seen dodgey buyers and sellers. If you have ever worked retail, you know that plenty of buyers will cheat the system for their own personal gain.
- 11oops, on 02/06/2008, -1/+1That is already being done, as well as sellers extorting the buyers saying 'you better not leave me negative feedback, otherwise i'll leave you the same'. Many buyers seem to think that their feedback score is equivalent to their ***** size and are afraid to tell the truth and take a -1 hit.
- slantyeyed, on 02/05/2008, -14/+1But what if sellers do NOT take care of their buyers? If you get burned by one seller, there's no way to warn anyone else? So there's only going to be positive feedback ratings? What if you had 10 positives (but 100 negatives that aren't shown), would it be safe to deal with that seller?
- Klisk, on 02/05/2008, -18/+95Forget it. As a seller, I just recently got a negative feedback because, and I quote: "Seller shipped item on monday. Received saturday. Shipping was TOO SLOW!" Now that's bullocks. 5 days is too slow when the shipping was FREE and I marked my shipping method as USPS priority!?
As a seller, it's RESPONSIBLE to wait for the BUYER to leave feedback first so that it ensures you won't get neg'd by people like this. Why leave feedback and basically 'close' your side of a transaction... When the transaction isn't over? Nothing is over until the customer is happy, and henceforth they should leave feedback first. Allowing the seller to leave feedback gives them the leverage to not get screwed by conartists. Someone won't leave a silly "Oh, shipping was slow, neg..." comment when they know they're going to get a "Neg: It took 5 days, that's too slow for you!?" In response.
All this is going to do is give the buyer the freedom to neg the seller for even the most LITTLE, insignificant reasons -- "Seller didn't use next day shipping, why not!?!?!?!" "That isn't my favorite color shipping box!" Etc. Seller's will get neg'd if there's a delay in the post, or if the buyer just FEELS like it. It will not work out for the seller, and for the casual ebay seller, it will ruin their chances of selling anything.- dopesick, on 02/05/2008, -13/+2Firstly I think everyone forgets that you CAN contact ebay/paypal and have feedback resolved even after the damage is done. Also, as a seller I do my damdest to make the customer happy so I get good feedback.
However many buyers and sellers both are greedy assholes, who will leave negetive feedback wether they contacted you at all. I am one of those assholes that give about 2 weeks, then email a reminder for them to leave me feedback, so I can leave my, thus closing out the transaction.- GrandCzar, on 02/05/2008, -0/+7You sure can, but they wont do anything about a neg like this one. I've got 8000+ feedback so I've dealt with a lot. - feedback only removes things that would fall under vulgar or malicious. They wont do anything because the buyer didn't read or expected beyond reasonable shipping speed.
- Ineedanap, on 02/05/2008, -0/+8no you cannot just get feedback resolved. It is not a matter of submitting and pressing a button and walla- no neg feedback. It is a major pain in the ass, and can give the buyer leverage to control the seller- not good for anyone attempting to run a busines. You also may have to pay a $30 fee to begin the process.
often as a seller you eat lots of $$ to avoid innane negative feedback. - bradleyland, on 02/05/2008, -3/+7***** eBay resolution. I just sent you a package. I have your address. I'll sign your ass up for visits from every LDS, 7th Day Adventist, you-name-it in a 100 mile radius. You'll never sleep in on a Saturday/Sunday again. I'll have pizza delivered to your house every night for the next two weeks. I'll ship you every dead animal that my cat brings home...
Negative feedback is the least of their worries.
- gen2ux, on 02/05/2008, -7/+14Sorry, this way of thinking fails.
Ebay USE to be a nice place to shop. Now it has so much of this mentality to it's core.
...I say to eBay. Make it the way it USE to be. Get the slime-balls out!- dopesick, on 02/05/2008, -5/+0I completely agree. I left a comment of my own below. See if that thinking fails. You'll see where I was heading with this comment, thought wise.
- GrandCzar, on 02/05/2008, -3/+3Doing this isn't the answer, it simply moves the power from one hand to the other. Why would buyers be more reasonable than seller. Removing feedback all together is the only way to keep it balanced.
- foxter, on 02/05/2008, -0/+10eBay is ALL ABOUT REPUTATION. Street gangs, prison, and eBay--they're all about reputation.
- kahrytan, on 02/05/2008, -9/+2If you know like eBay, start your own online auction website.
- raynar, on 02/05/2008, -2/+5@kahrytan - its kinda hard when theres already a giant. Go try and start a match.com, or a digg.com. Wont work, there is already a huge userbase. Although if you do like digg did, and steal an idea and add a few tweaks, you *might* succeed.
- fcukthisgame, on 02/06/2008, -1/+3USE_D_
D!
like it USED to be
- blackmage439, on 02/05/2008, -5/+25I agree. This is a bad move. It's closing the loop of communication, and giving an unfair advantage to buyers. I have never felt intimidated by sellers on Ebay, because I know the company is there to police the system. If you have a problem, COMMUNICATE! Do so to the seller and then to Ebay if things go bad.
- gachamp2, on 02/05/2008, -3/+15Communication doesn't work when there are people on there intentionally ripping off valid sellers.
- HMTKSteve, on 02/05/2008, -18/+15As soon as the buyer pays for the item to seller should leave feedback.
- Klisk, on 02/05/2008, -10/+10That's ridiculous.
- screensnot, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2No, it's not ridiculous.
From a buyer's point of view;
If I pay promptly after the auction, I have fulfilled my end of the agreement. What else is left for me to do?
Next, the seller needs to ship the item, to fulfill his end.
Both sides should leave feedback as soon as the other has completed his end of the transaction. That means the seller would have first opportunity to say he was dealt with fairly or not. If he holds back, he can only be waiting for one thing; to see if the buyer is going to badmouth him or not. That's like holding good feedback for me ransom, until I give it to you (whether you deserve it or not).
If I win an auction, I agree to pay for the item. That's it. When I bid, I did not agree to praise you, even if you deserve praise.
And the seller is only agreeing to ship me the item I bid on. You don't need to praise me if you don't want. But, if you're not going to take the time to leave feedback for me, I probably won't do it for you. That could also possibly affect my decision to buy from you in the future, but that is totally up to me.
I realize this gives the buyer an upper hand, but that is how it works. For example, I can go to Best Buy and buy something, be completely happy with the purchase, and then go home and post BS about how crappy my BB experience was. Such is life for the sellers. And, as long as I don't go so far as slander or libel, BB can't do much about it. Fair for BB? I guess not. But they still seem to make a living.
I flat out refuse to leave first comment, as a buyer. You sellers are the ones that care about feedback anyway. If this feedback thing becomes a problem for me, I'll just take my money and shop elsewhere.
I am the consumer! You play by rules that are acceptable to me, or you kiss my as good-bye. Simple as that.
- screensnot, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2No, it's not ridiculous.
- Incomp3tnt, on 02/05/2008, -2/+5No, it's exactly as Klisk said in his main post. The customer leaving you positive feedback signals that he/she is satisfied with the service you have provided and is happy to close the transaction. If the customer is not satisfied then the seller's job is not over yet and is not ready to close his end of the transaction (leave feedback).
- unreg, on 02/05/2008, -2/+5I think you're misreading his post, he's advocating the the seller should leave feedback upon payment.
- MarkOfTheDead, on 02/06/2008, -2/+1Which is retarded. The buyer could be a total ***** and tear him out for something he didn't even try to get resolved. And the internet is full of non-confrontational pricks like that too.
- screensnot, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2I agree, Steve.
This crap about the seller has to wait to see if the buyer was happy with the transaction is way wrong.
The customer decides when the transaction is complete, not the seller. Once I've made payment, the seller should ship and leave comment that I fulfilled my end of the agreement. Then the buyer waits for his stuff, and reports if the seller fulfilled his end.
I make occasional purchases, and don't care much about my rating (though it is 100% positive). But, the damn sellers are always waiting for me to comment first, and email to promise good feedback in exchange for good feedback from me. Which is just a nice way of saying, "Don't give me bad feedback or I'll do the same to you!"
The customer has to have the upper hand here, or I don't want to play the game. Since I am the one with the money, without me, you have no game.
- Klisk, on 02/05/2008, -10/+10That's ridiculous.
- Amorrn, on 02/05/2008, -5/+2...And if people leave negative feedback as inane as "wrong color shipping box" buyers probably won't take that seriously anyway, right?
Oh wait, I'm placing faith in the intelligence of the everyman...never mind.- smoger, on 02/06/2008, -0/+5most people look at the score and the percentage and that's it.
- baph0m3t, on 02/05/2008, -2/+9Apparently you never used Ebay. What happens if the buyer pays and you leave feedback right away, then a week later you get a negative saying, "shipping was to slow" when you explicitly outlined the shipping methods? Think about it...
edit - dammit. this was for HMTKSteve- unreg, on 02/05/2008, -1/+4"Shipping was slow" is a fairly lame negative feedback. I'd be more worried about sellers who don't deliver, take liberties with the advertisement of the item or don't back it up.
- Klisk, on 02/05/2008, -4/+1~ALL~ of my negatives are "shipping is too slow." The LATEST I've ever gotten an item out was 2 weeks, and that's not bad considering it was because it was christmas week!
Lame negative comment? Heh. Most common neg. feedback, for sure!- screensnot, on 02/06/2008, -1/+12 weeks? I figure 3 business days is prompt. 5 is acceptable. 7 is slow. 11 is not acceptable.
If you are sometimes shipping at 10 business days after, your customers deserve to know. I'm not going to automatically avoid you if you have a few negs. I'm going to read those comments to see what's up. If slow shipping won't bother me, I'll bid. If I need it right away, I want to know if a seller will ship right away.
You sellers want to protect yourself, and I understand that. But the customer makes up the rules, or he'll just take his money and go home.
- screensnot, on 02/06/2008, -1/+12 weeks? I figure 3 business days is prompt. 5 is acceptable. 7 is slow. 11 is not acceptable.
- redmaxx, on 02/05/2008, -1/+2That's why I don't leave feedback until the *whole* transaction is complete. If the buyer is still able to cause me grief then the transaction is not over. I usually wait until a week or two after the item has been delivered, but if the buyer has been rude or something I'll wait until the very last minute.
- afireinside13t, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1This just happened to me a couple weeks ago. As soon as the person bought the product, I told them it would ship on Tuesday (Monday was a holiday). I then shipped it on Tuesday, as promised, and got a negative rating because it "shipped late." (They also complained about a book listed as used having highlighting on one page) As a seller, I had no recourse other than personally emailing the person because I had already left feedback at time of payment.
- screensnot, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2I thought you could post a response to neg feedbacks. I may be wrong, as I am not a big eBayer.
- afireinside13t, on 03/23/2008, -0/+1You can, but only if you haven't already left feedback. My impression was that the sale was done once the money made it to my bank account. Therefore, I gave the buyer positive feedback. In retrospect, I should have waited until the buyer left me feedback.
- unreg, on 02/05/2008, -1/+4"Shipping was slow" is a fairly lame negative feedback. I'd be more worried about sellers who don't deliver, take liberties with the advertisement of the item or don't back it up.
- Ydnar723, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1Feedback needs to be redone or done away with, I can see from a "reasonable" sellers standpoint about waiting to leave the feedback, some of this "it shipped late" is beyond a sellers control, if you ship something priority for example and they tell you it was shipped, but you got it 6 days later it is not the sellers fault but you get these "kids" who just blame you for the problem and not take common sense into consideration. Some sellers I think are childish for waiting because they over react but there is some good reason as to why the seller wants to wait I rip everytime I get a stupid negative feedback, the best I can do is use the follow up remark to comment on their feedback so the next buyer looks at my feedback before buying something may see from my point of view. I have to say though ebay's feedback system is a little far fetched.
- groberts1980, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1If a buyer negs you for a stupid reason, can't you respond to the negative comment right under it? I think this is a great move. Once the buyer pays, the seller should leave feedback. When the package arrives, the buyer leaves feedback. It's really stupid for the seller to wait for the buyer to leave feedback.
- dopesick, on 02/05/2008, -13/+2Firstly I think everyone forgets that you CAN contact ebay/paypal and have feedback resolved even after the damage is done. Also, as a seller I do my damdest to make the customer happy so I get good feedback.
- sporg, on 02/05/2008, -2/+13I always wait to leave feedback when I am the seller. Especially when its a buyer who pays by an E-Check that takes two weeks to clear. If you pay with something like that don't even think about leaving me a negative for slow shipment.
Its easy for buyers to reverse payment and keep the item and the money so dont sell anything of high value unless you make people pay with cash or money order. Watch out for those fake money orders too. There are so many buyer scams and ebay makes it so easy for them, thanks ebay !- redmaxx, on 02/05/2008, -0/+4You can forget that. High value categories (like computers and cell phones will require you to offer PayPal.
- sporg, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1Last time I checked you were not required to offer paypal for anything. Where did you hear this?
- redmaxx, on 02/05/2008, -0/+4You can forget that. High value categories (like computers and cell phones will require you to offer PayPal.
- gearsofwar05, on 02/05/2008, -10/+42I agree with this change 100%. I bought a repair manual on CD a year ago. I get the CD and in the instructions it says leave positive feed back and I will send you the password. If negative feed back is left you will not get the password. Thats BULL. I pay for it, it's mine. That would be like Ford saying after you buy the car, give us good feed back and we'll give you the keys.
- compulsive1, on 02/05/2008, -1/+42That's when you leave a neg. "Seller didn't deliver goods. Blackmails customers for feedback" then you report to eBay or Paypal "refund request goods not received". See how long he will be in business on eBay.
- bradleyland, on 02/05/2008, -0/+11Heh. Knowing eBay, they'd classify that as "item not as described" and you'd be up the river without a paddle.
- screensnot, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2This is exactly right. He was the victim of a scam. His duty, as a citizen of this planet, is to bring the scammer to light. Even if that means he has to take some lumps on this deal.
- osko2052, on 02/05/2008, -0/+19That's feedback extortion plain and simple. You should have forwarded it to ebay.
- Travisx2, on 02/06/2008, -0/+6Ebay's Policy is to Do Nothing!
I left NEUTRAL feedback for a seller who shipped a router in a box 3x it's size with no packing.
So he left me NEGATIVE feedback saying that I was a an idiot for leaving him neutral feedback.
Ebay wouldn't do anything about it.
- Travisx2, on 02/06/2008, -0/+6Ebay's Policy is to Do Nothing!
- BeyondGoodNEvil, on 02/06/2008, -8/+3I dugg you down for your use of an extremely unlikely scenario as your sole reason for saying it's bad for seller's to be able to leave feedback. Your transaction was 1 in a lifetime.
- compulsive1, on 02/05/2008, -1/+42That's when you leave a neg. "Seller didn't deliver goods. Blackmails customers for feedback" then you report to eBay or Paypal "refund request goods not received". See how long he will be in business on eBay.
- stackered, on 02/05/2008, -12/+4My feedback: I posted this a week ago and didn't get dugg up.
- FrostyFire, on 02/05/2008, -3/+2I posted it before you.
http://digg.com/tech_news/Buyer_s_can_only_receive ... - BeyondGoodNEvil, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1NEGATIVE! Complains about his unpopularity, avoid!
- natedouglas, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1A++++++++++++++++++++++ SELLER A CREDIT TO DIGG WILL DIGG AGAIN
- FrostyFire, on 02/05/2008, -3/+2I posted it before you.
- rolf, on 02/05/2008, -9/+23You obviously never have sold on ebay. Some BUYERS hold feedback over your head like a hostage because good feedback is more essential to the seller's reputation to maintain his business than it is to a buyer's reputation.
Don't want that positive? Don't leave the seller feedback! Really,what seller is going to care if you have 199 or 200 plusses? OTOH, a buyer now can abuse the seller over all types of crap on the pain of a negative that will drive customers a hit. If the seller really deserves a negative, swallow it and be prepared for the counterstrike -- and with mutually withdrawn ratings this was much less of a problem anyway.
I certainly think some buyers are kept honest this way and don't just claim they never recieved an item (happened enough even though delivery confirmation says otherwise). Really, ebay is not a retail shop but often times you get stuff there cheaper than usual with some honest sellers just scraping by on low margins as it is.
This sucks. Some buyers may find it an inconvenience but to other people their very livelihood is now threatened by a system change that makes it ripe for abuse. Now I can't even decide if I want to ship valuable merchadise as the objective metric on a person's reliability is gone.
*****.- SpencerLavery, on 02/05/2008, -2/+0At least with this move eBay will be forced to moderate feedback more actively. That, and the fact that 100% positive feedback will be nigh on impossible for power sellers and therefore less important on the whole. What shop in the world ever has 100% satisfied customers anyway?
- rolf, on 02/05/2008, -0/+2Ebay moderating? Turning to ebay is last resort and they are already unresponsive, at best.
- redmaxx, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1Forced? Ahahahahahaha. You don't know fleaBay.
- screensnot, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1I don't know about the moderating part, but the 100% thing is right (and is exactly how it should be).
When I see 100%, I get suspicious. How can you deal with thousands of people and never have a problem? You're going to have some complaints, unless you use extraordinary measures to keep them from being known.
If you have %100 rating, I then have to pore over your positive comments to see if they are genuine or not. If I suspect they are insincere, I won't buy from you.
A few negs is realistic, and I will read them while trying to determine if the buyer sounds unreasonable. Just leave a response to your negs. I think I can spot unreasonable buyers, just fine.
- SpencerLavery, on 02/05/2008, -1/+3Regardless, it's not the Sellers job to control their own feedback, not by any means. Doing this is in fact unethical.
- redmaxx, on 02/06/2008, -5/+2So it's unethical for me to expect positive feedback for a smooth transaction (if the person wants to give feedback)? I have every right to hold it over the buyers head that if the transaction was completed according to the terms and conditions in the auction (i.e. they paid on-time, I shipped on-time, etc.), if they leave me a negative feedback they will get one too. That's not retaliation, that's feedback. You don't get to abuse my rating after a good transaction and expect me not to complain about it.
- Double0Doug, on 02/06/2008, -1/+5No that's retaliation, not feedback. You are in fact the very reason this change is being implemented. You sir, are an ass!
- redmaxx, on 02/06/2008, -5/+2So it's unethical for me to expect positive feedback for a smooth transaction (if the person wants to give feedback)? I have every right to hold it over the buyers head that if the transaction was completed according to the terms and conditions in the auction (i.e. they paid on-time, I shipped on-time, etc.), if they leave me a negative feedback they will get one too. That's not retaliation, that's feedback. You don't get to abuse my rating after a good transaction and expect me not to complain about it.
- SpencerLavery, on 02/05/2008, -2/+0At least with this move eBay will be forced to moderate feedback more actively. That, and the fact that 100% positive feedback will be nigh on impossible for power sellers and therefore less important on the whole. What shop in the world ever has 100% satisfied customers anyway?
- lexbaby, on 02/05/2008, -10/+3"I've completed my end of the deal."
Disagree. On Ebay part of the buyer's end of the deal is to leave feedback. Positive feedback is the lifeblood to many sellers. This attitude of "I've paid, I've done my part" is exactly why sellers go to lengths to get feedback.
I think everyone should have two feedback scores: buyer and seller. I couldn't care less that a seller got a negative from another seller. I want to see high marks from other buyers. Conversely, I want to see if the buyer of my item is a straight shooter, or should I be keeping in contact with other bidders in case he/she doesn't come through with payment.- SpencerLavery, on 02/05/2008, -4/+6Feedback is nothing to do with the transaction. It's this attitude that allows sellers to believe that they're entitled to leave feedback after the buyer, and it's completely ridiculous. If a buyer is abusing the feedback system, report it to eBay, it's not your job, nor your privilege to moderate their feedback, and I'm glad of that.
- byronm, on 02/05/2008, -1/+4The problem with getting rid of sellers rights is that eBay has to assume all liability for the transaction now. It used to be a mutual agreement between two parties - party a and party b - regardless of who the seller/buyer is they both need consistency and trust to complete the transaction.
eBay wants nothing short of increasing its fees and will do so by enforcing paypal, seller protection and seller metrics on its on "whim". - Klisk, on 02/05/2008, -0/+3Ebay isn't going to do a thing about buyers abusing the feedback system. Ebay is IMPOSSIBLE to communicate, or get ANY results out of. That's part of the problem here.
If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Ebay isn't broke. The only thing that DOES need to be fixed are the overseas scammers. This has nothing to do with the feedback system. - redmaxx, on 02/06/2008, -2/+3The hell it doesn't have anything to do with the transaction. If I describe an item as scratched with normal wear and the buyer leaves me negative feedback because it wasn't in mint condition, that's 100% to do with the transaction. I'm not leaving feedback as a seller until you've had some time with the item and I'm sure you're not going to burn up my rating because you're too inept to read the whole auction.
- byronm, on 02/05/2008, -1/+4The problem with getting rid of sellers rights is that eBay has to assume all liability for the transaction now. It used to be a mutual agreement between two parties - party a and party b - regardless of who the seller/buyer is they both need consistency and trust to complete the transaction.
- SpencerLavery, on 02/05/2008, -4/+6Feedback is nothing to do with the transaction. It's this attitude that allows sellers to believe that they're entitled to leave feedback after the buyer, and it's completely ridiculous. If a buyer is abusing the feedback system, report it to eBay, it's not your job, nor your privilege to moderate their feedback, and I'm glad of that.
- FrostyFire, on 02/05/2008, -10/+6Sweet. I submitted this WEEK OLD news already and nobody gave a *****.
http://digg.com/tech_news/Buyer_s_can_only_receive ...- ryhughes, on 02/06/2008, -1/+4You submitted it with an error-laden title and a crappy description. No wonder you got a total of 6 diggs.
- DarkDx, on 02/05/2008, -21/+9. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _________
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ./ It's a trap!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _,,,--~~~~~~~~--,_ . . . . ._________/
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,-‘ : : : :::: :::: :: : : : : :º ‘-, . . /. . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . .,-‘ :: : : :::: :::: :::: :::: : : :o : ‘-, . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . ,-‘ :: ::: :: : : :: :::: :::: :: : : : : :O ‘-, . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . .,-‘ : :: :: :: :: :: : : : : : , : : :º :::: :::: ::’; . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . .,-‘ / / : :: :: :: :: : : :::: :::-, ;; ;; ;; ;; ;; ;; ; . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . /,-‘,’ :: : : : : : : : : :: :: :: : ‘-, ;; ;; ;; ;; ;; ;;| . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . /,’,-‘ :: :: :: :: :: :: :: : ::_,-~~,_’-, ;; ;; ;; ;; | . . . . . . .
. . . . . _/ :,’ :/ :: :: :: : : :: :: _,-‘/ : ,-‘;’-‘’’’’~-, ;; ;; ;;,’ . . . . . . . .
. . . ,-‘ / : : : : : : ,-‘’’ : : :,--‘’ :|| /,-‘-‘--‘’’__,’’’ ;; ;,-‘ . . . . . . . .
. . . :/,, : : : _,-‘ --,,_ : : : ||/ /,-‘-‘x### :: ;;/ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . / /---‘’’’ : # : : : : : | | : (O##º : :/ /-‘’ . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . /,’____ : : ‘-# : , : : : : ‘-,___,-‘,-`-,, . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . ‘ ) : : : :’’’’--,,--,,,,,,¯ :: ::--,,_’’-,,’’’¯ :’- :’-, . . . . . . . . .
. . . . .) : : : : : : ,, : ‘’’’~~~~’ :: :: :: :’’’’’¯ :: ,-‘ :,/ . . . . . . . . .
. . . . .,/ /|| | :/ / : : : : : : : ,’-, :: :: :: :: ::,--‘’ :,-‘ . . . . . . . .
. . . . .’| |/ ‘/ / :: :_--,, : , | )’; :: :: :: :,-‘’ : ,-‘ : : : , . . . . . . .
. . . ./¯ :| | : |/ :: ::----, :/ :|/ :: :: ,-‘’ : :,-‘ : : : : : : ‘’-,,_ . . . .
. . ..| : : :/ ‘’-(, :: :: :: ‘’’’’~,,,,,’’ :: ,-‘’ : :,-‘ : : : : : : : : :,-‘’’ . . . .
. ,-‘ : : : | : : ‘’) : : :¯’’’’~-,: : ,--‘’’ : :,-‘’ : : : : : : : : : ,-‘ :¯’’’’’-,_ .
./ : : : : :’-, :: | :: :: :: _,,-‘’’’¯ : ,--‘’ : : : : : : : : : : : / : : : : : : :’’-,
/ : : : : : -, :¯’’’’’’’’’’’¯ : : _,,-~’’ : : : : : : : : : : : : : :| : : : : : : : : :
: : : : : : : :¯’’~~~~~~’’’ : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : | : : : : : : : : :- bballbackus, on 02/06/2008, -1/+11I think you have the wrong place your buddies myspace is two more blocks down the road to the right
- MarkOfTheDead, on 02/06/2008, -0/+3You mean 4chan. Top of the stairs, end of the hall. If you bust in without knocking you'll see something that will turn your hair white.
- bballbackus, on 02/06/2008, -1/+11I think you have the wrong place your buddies myspace is two more blocks down the road to the right
- luke596, on 02/05/2008, -0/+2no, i don't agree at all
i got scammed on ebay for just over £110, and the same 'shop' i later found out have done the same to others, there was a huge mixture of posotive and negative feedback for the seller and when i get my money back i'm gonna leave some negative feedback, hopefully others won't do what i did.
its useful as a guide to who to buy off- screensnot, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1You didn't read their feedback before you bought?
- ahawks, on 02/06/2008, -0/+12There's a simple solution folks, and banning negative feedback is not it. What good is feedback if you can't warn people about a seller/buyer.
- Allow both positive and negative feedback
- Publicly show how many times a user has not given feedback (with a negative view point, that not giving feedback is a bad thing)
- Feedback is not shown to the recipient until they have also given feedback. This eliminates the "holding hostage" retaliation.
- If necessary, provide a means to refute a negative feedback.
This way feedback is encouraged, and is honest. You can't be held hostage for a feedback comment and then trashed based on your feedback, because they won't know what you said until they've submitted theirs too.- Double0Doug, on 02/06/2008, -0/+4As a potential buyer, I think ebay should enable a user by providing a few relatively simple analytical tools. For example, allow me to view a list of all the negative feedback on a seller AND how the seller responded. I think a seller would probably find it useful to see how often a buyer has given negative feedback for “slow shipping”.
It is more important to me to know how a potential business partner handled a situation than to just know the hard numbers. I won’t buy from a seller who leaves retaliatory feedback, I don’t care how lame the reason.
- Double0Doug, on 02/06/2008, -0/+4As a potential buyer, I think ebay should enable a user by providing a few relatively simple analytical tools. For example, allow me to view a list of all the negative feedback on a seller AND how the seller responded. I think a seller would probably find it useful to see how often a buyer has given negative feedback for “slow shipping”.
- razor150, on 02/06/2008, -1/+4I personally think the Sellers shouldn't be able to receive feedback till they leave it. I do totally agree with what you say, almost every Seller demands that you leave them feedback before they will. It really is holding positive feedback hostage, because no matter how ***** they were they want to force you to leave positive feedback. I generally don't leave feedback to sellers who hold it hostage, unless I think they've done exceptionally well.
When I sell something I always give positive feedback when payment is received. It's only fair since they finished their part of the transaction. - primehifi, on 02/06/2008, -3/+6The buyer has to leave feedback first. Paypal uses the feedback as a confirmation system in some instances that the item was received if the buyer is unreachable and the account is on hold, as was the situations when the PS3 was hot. Just because you pay, that isn't the end of the deal for your part. You're still yet to receive the item. It's only when you've received the item is the transaction complete and then feedback can be left. The seller for the most part will not know when you receive the item and are satisfied to leave feedback, so the ball is in the buyers court.
Also, if you feel that strongly that someone is going to leave you negative feedback once you justifiably leave them theirs, just wait until 89 days, 23hours, 59minutes and 59 seconds are up and leave the negative feedback for them. After 90 days they no longer have an option to reply. I've done this to several sellers who have been bad sellers, for whatever reason. I'd sooner leave a negative then have a positive if the negative was warranted.
This will probably not be a good move for ebay in the long run.
If you're a seller and you leave feedback first, you're foolish. As mentioned above, by leaving feedback first you're dropping any protection you might of had against preventing a false paypal claim or receiving a negative simply because the buyer knows he can do it w/o repercussions.
If you walk into a store and buy something, the deal isn't done when you pay. It is done when you have your item in your hands. So why is the deal finished on ebay when you pay? It isn't, it is done when the buyer leaves his feedback after receiving the item. To suggest otherwise is just backwards. - chrisb62, on 02/06/2008, -3/+3actually i used to work for ebay in one of their customer service centers or whatever you wanna call it. they could care less about what you have to say. so really, going into the online chats do nothing..
the people you are talking to arent even employed by ebay, so they dont even care either. you're just waisting your time.
basically when you try and complain about a system or another member, you just get a room of "drones" getting a laugh about it, and a general hatred towards those types of people who complain.
But not me. people like you are the reason i quit. and im better for it.. lol so thx! - lucutus, on 02/06/2008, -7/+6You are a ***** wit moron and a non seller on eBay that should be buried but only gets dugg because you were first to comment. This change sucks ass for the simple fact that any newbie buyer on eBay can now continue to leave negative feedback for no real reason at all simply because they know the seller has no recourse. It's like a criminal with a gun in a province or state that does not allow law abiding citizens a weapon, robbery is amok because the criminals know they have the upper hand. This change is retarded and moronic and I am sure you will see a lot of sellers quit eBay for this reason alone.
- skyfyre, on 02/06/2008, -2/+3You sound like a third grader throwing a tantrum. stfu.
- screensnot, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2You must be one of those "***** wit" sellers that I sometimes run into on eBay. You are so afraid of getting a neg rating that you extort feedback from a good buyer. If that buyer is anything like me, he swears to never buy from you again, and has such bad experiences buying things from eBay that he rarely buys anything there anymore.
I wonder if eBay has more interest in seeing that you (seller) stay, or that I (buyer) come back.
- Scott2, on 02/06/2008, -0/+3Thats all well and good, but I've been on the both sides - dealing with an unreasonable seller and buyer. The seller took 10 days to simply respond after the end of the auction, and 20 days until I got my item. I felt I was being nice by leaving neutral feedback instead of negative, but they seller went nuts and wrote a scathing negative feedback of me.
The buyer in question simply took a week to put the payment (money order) in the mail, but then went nuts when I didn't ship the item the same day I got the payment (hello, full time job, family, etc).
A real fix would be for eBay to have better mediation of these sorts of disputes.- screensnot, on 02/06/2008, -1/+1In your first situation you shouldn't have left the comment first. You were the buyer, you should have known he was playing the feedback system in this way. If he refused to make the first comment, you should have given him neg feedback, saying that he holds feedback for ransom, so that your honest feedback is helping people that are considering buying from him in the future. That's what the goddam system is supposed to do. And people playing it to keep their rating at 100% are ruining it's usefulness. Yes, the bastard is going to retaliate and give you a neg. But, a good, honest eBayer doesn't need to worry about having a couple negs from ***** eBayers, because most of the time, the assholes are easy to spot based on their interactions with the rest. And it is easy to look at someone's feedback history to determine which group of eBayers that they belong to.
In the second situation, you ***** up again. You commented first (I'm assuming), which was right, but you weren't honest. You should have neg'd the buyer for slow payment (again you're killing the feedback system's worth). Then you simply respond to his neg, in a professional tone. That's really the best you can do. Trying to play games so that your rating stays at 100% doesn't do anyone any good.
- screensnot, on 02/06/2008, -1/+1In your first situation you shouldn't have left the comment first. You were the buyer, you should have known he was playing the feedback system in this way. If he refused to make the first comment, you should have given him neg feedback, saying that he holds feedback for ransom, so that your honest feedback is helping people that are considering buying from him in the future. That's what the goddam system is supposed to do. And people playing it to keep their rating at 100% are ruining it's usefulness. Yes, the bastard is going to retaliate and give you a neg. But, a good, honest eBayer doesn't need to worry about having a couple negs from ***** eBayers, because most of the time, the assholes are easy to spot based on their interactions with the rest. And it is easy to look at someone's feedback history to determine which group of eBayers that they belong to.
- dbajpai, on 02/06/2008, -1/+1I just got screwed over by a buyer who claimed he got a remote control instead of the ipod I sent. I was dumb enough to already have left him feedback, so he could do whatever he wanted. I will never sell anything of value on ebay again, it's just too risky. Especially now with this new stupid rule.
- coheedcollapse, on 02/05/2008, -5/+147I'm not sure where I stand on this issue. I'm just sick of people who obviously haven't ever shopped online leaving me bad feedback. I sold all of my school books last year and some girl gave me negative feedback because apparently she expected $3.00 media mail to get my book across the country in two days. It was my first negative feedback, but I would have been pissed if I couldn't respond.
- BloggerJohn, on 02/05/2008, -31/+186I agree, been screwed over by too many sellers sending me 'top quality goods, not made in china!!' that then turn up with a postal stamp from hong kong. Then I can't leave them negative feedback, because i'll get it right back and tarnish my own beautiful feedback rating. This should impove things
- banmaster, on 02/05/2008, -21/+4Just because somehting is shipped from China does not mean its made there (usualyl it does, but not always).
Its exactly the same as when you buy somehting from a seller in your own state, the chances are that it comes from china anyway.- itsthebrod, on 02/05/2008, -3/+12You're right! China is such a big importer of goods. In fact, they import quality products from other countries and ship it out as their own! Right?
- banmaster, on 02/05/2008, -5/+3I NEVER said that. I just said that its not always the case, even clarified it with the comment in brackets.
Are digg users so stupid that they can't read and comprehend plain english??- itsthebrod, on 02/06/2008, -0/+3I understood what you said, but the logic behind it was still retarded. Of course not 100% of things shipped from China is made there, but the likelihood of it being made there is staggering enough to make what you said useless.
- Matt2k, on 02/05/2008, -0/+4Yeah, we know what you said.
- Rikkochet, on 02/05/2008, -0/+6I can read plain English, but unfortunately I'm also capable of critical thinking and know that your argument is theoretically possible but in practice (especially on eBay) is complete nonsense and deserves to be dugg down.
Making up stats and arguing for an unlikely probability isn't wisdom, it's stubbornness.
- banmaster, on 02/05/2008, -5/+3I NEVER said that. I just said that its not always the case, even clarified it with the comment in brackets.
- itsthebrod, on 02/05/2008, -3/+12You're right! China is such a big importer of goods. In fact, they import quality products from other countries and ship it out as their own! Right?
- macfanboi, on 02/05/2008, -2/+34Good luck finding products not 'Made in China'
- Godlike, on 02/05/2008, -15/+1If all you go to a store for is the cheapest ***** thing in the place, that's all that you're going to get.
Seriously, who shops at wal-mart? You going there for the styles or something? Ohhh yes, 'no boundaries' underwear with half tiger people on them and boot cut jeans with saggy asses from the Levi's damaged goods pile... I'm sure you'll look great eating all the salty off-brand crap they sell, too.
*VOMIT* IF YOU DON'T WANT CHEAP CRAP STOP BUYING CHEAP CRAP!- awhiteflame, on 02/05/2008, -0/+4"Seriously, who shops at wal-mart?"
Evidently, millions? - Inquisition, on 02/05/2008, -0/+4Well, your name says it all! You Sir, are so obviously full of yourself, that you think you are better than other people that buy stuff at Wal-Mart?
I pity you.
- awhiteflame, on 02/05/2008, -0/+4"Seriously, who shops at wal-mart?"
- Rikkochet, on 02/05/2008, -0/+1Pencils
Erasers
Mouthwash
Lumber
Automobiles (assembly, anyways)
that exhausts my list so far.- yacks, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1Fujitsu Laptops..
Sony SZ and TZ laptops though some parts are made in China like power brick and battery.
I've seen a Sony SZ made in USA with foreign components.
- yacks, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1Fujitsu Laptops..
- Godlike, on 02/05/2008, -15/+1If all you go to a store for is the cheapest ***** thing in the place, that's all that you're going to get.
- gremos, on 02/05/2008, -3/+13People from Hong Kong that I know always say they are not from China. I guess some people are in deep denial...
- diulei, on 02/05/2008, -0/+8To be fair...it _is_ somewhat different, just maybe not by the books. Do Puerto Ricans consider themselves American?
- OrangeSoda31, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1Your argument is flawed. They hold few American rights, they receive no representation (which can do anything), and they are not American Citizens by law. Also, consider this: in Spanish, America refers to North and South America, not the United States.
- yacks, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2@OrangeSoda31: but American means from the USA.. normally otherwise you are either.. Canadian.. mexican.. columbian. peruvian.. brazilian..cuban.. etc. call ourselves United States of Americans would be long. :)
- diulei, on 02/05/2008, -0/+8To be fair...it _is_ somewhat different, just maybe not by the books. Do Puerto Ricans consider themselves American?
- ronin510, on 02/05/2008, -0/+8I've opened up 2 accounts on eBay. One as a buyer, the other as a seller. I don't care much for my buyer account's feedback and will freely leave a negative feedback to sellers who don't live up to their end of the deal.
- yunus, on 02/05/2008, -1/+12Not a bad idea. As a buyer with a rating of 6 all positive I am afraid to leave negative feedback on a power seller. 1 negative feedback on a rating of 20,000 means nothing but 1 on a rating of 6 carries a good bit of weight.
- Double0Doug, on 02/06/2008, -1/+2I agree, and that’s why I think these changes are for the best.
- yunus, on 02/05/2008, -1/+12Not a bad idea. As a buyer with a rating of 6 all positive I am afraid to leave negative feedback on a power seller. 1 negative feedback on a rating of 20,000 means nothing but 1 on a rating of 6 carries a good bit of weight.
- PathDaemon, on 02/05/2008, -0/+16I agree about the getting screwed, but think that banning negative feedback is a horrible solution. How about this: when one party leaves feedback, it appears in the other's just as "feeback has been left for this item" (or something to that effect). Only after both parties have "locked in" their feedback does it become visible.
- AndisCandies, on 02/06/2008, -0/+3I completely agree with you! I am an Ebay buyer and seller and don't feel it is fair to remove the ability to leave negative feedback for a non-paying buyer or a buyer who doesn't read descriptions carefully. I am an honest seller and have always done my best to accurately describe items and ship them in a timely manner. This action by Ebay will hurt all of the honest sellers out there and that really bothers me.
- lucutus, on 02/06/2008, -1/+4So when an experienced seller gets negative feedback from a novice newbie buyer claiming they did not receive product on the day they receive it and the seller proves it. The seller should have no recourse? Wouldn't you think it more common for a newbie buyer to leave erroneous negative feedback than an experienced seller?
- AndisCandies, on 02/06/2008, -1/+2I am with you lucutus! Too many newbie buyer's that don't know what they are doing and have very high expectations. As a buyer and a seller I can see both sides of the coin however I do not feel it is fair to remove the ability for sellers to leave negative feedback. Especially should they encounter a non-paying buyer.
- lucutus, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1I agree on that. There is still recourse for non paying bidders but the insane negative feedback they sometimes leave is my issue. I mean I've sold things exactly as described only to have them leave negative feedback that it did not come with something clearly stated it did not have like a manual or similar.
- groberts1980, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2Of course the seller has recourse. You reply to the negative comment. Your reply appears directly below. People read it. Recourse.
- AndisCandies, on 02/06/2008, -1/+2I am with you lucutus! Too many newbie buyer's that don't know what they are doing and have very high expectations. As a buyer and a seller I can see both sides of the coin however I do not feel it is fair to remove the ability for sellers to leave negative feedback. Especially should they encounter a non-paying buyer.
- northernmunky, on 02/06/2008, -1/+1If you want quality gear get it from Taiwan... even here people know products from China are bad!
I took a stereo back to a Taiwanese shop the other day because it blew up... the lady took one look at it and said... "ahhh... made in China.. thats why!" (it wasn't my stereo before you ask!)- screensnot, on 02/06/2008, -1/+2I've heard another Taiwanese say this before.
I suspect the stuff you guys export is not of the same quality you sell at home. Because here in the USA, made in Taiwan is equally crappy as made in China. I'm not trying to insult you at all. I don't think even the most politically correct left-winger would claim otherwise.
- screensnot, on 02/06/2008, -1/+2I've heard another Taiwanese say this before.
- rentmitchum, on 02/06/2008, -2/+3Yea the whole thing is so childish. I had an item recently, buy it now, 6 available. I get no notice of shipping for like 4 days, so I email. Then they email back and say "We had to order it, it will ship soon". Wtf? If it's a buy it NOW, and you list an amount available, that's just dishonest as hell. I was pissed. I ordered 3 things that day. I got the first in 3 days, the second in 4 days, and the Buy it now in 2 weeks. Worst part is, I can't leave negative feedback because they'd just leave it for me.
- banmaster, on 02/05/2008, -21/+4Just because somehting is shipped from China does not mean its made there (usualyl it does, but not always).
- Bukowsky, on 02/05/2008, -21/+311But what if you have a negative experience or the buyer tries to back out? They deserve to get a negative feedback... Seems to me that this limits a seller's options...
- BloggerJohn, on 02/05/2008, -11/+68For buyers its simple, like the article says - if you pay, you're a good buyer, so no problems there. If you dont pay, then ebay is handles it with a non-payment strike, so no need for negative feedback there either.
- eviljim, on 02/05/2008, -2/+32I don't think you've ever sold on eBay.
I received negative feedback for "overcharging for shipping" (I charged $7. The $7 was incredibly clear in the auction, listed no less than 3 times. And it was for 2nd day air). I stupidly had already left positive feedback, even though the person did not deserve it.
I also received a negative feedback for "reselling items for a profit". I bought something for less than I sold it for, thus, I deserved negative feedback.
It's not common - for me it was about 1% - but it happens. And if you do that, it means you are NOT a good buyer, and deserve negative feedback.- Double0Doug, on 02/06/2008, -0/+4I agree and you are 100% right… BUT what does the buyer’s feedback do for you as a seller? You can’t not sell something to a bidder because they have a poor feedback rating, can you??
I really understand the urge for a seller to have his say on a transaction, especially when the buyer leaves inane feedback like you mentioned. I don’t see what it adds to the transaction beyond tit-for-tat remarks and retaliation- natedouglas, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2Yep, the disqualification-from-bidding options on auctions are sorely lacking.
- yacks, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2Negative: Everything went great! Received item on time but just wanted to prove to you that the Universe is cruel and unjust.
- Double0Doug, on 02/06/2008, -0/+4I agree and you are 100% right… BUT what does the buyer’s feedback do for you as a seller? You can’t not sell something to a bidder because they have a poor feedback rating, can you??
- rarson, on 02/05/2008, -0/+2How do non-payment strikes show up to other sellers? I don't remember.
- aarghj, on 02/06/2008, -0/+03 non-payment strikes and ya get banned from ebay.
- Bukowsky, on 02/06/2008, -1/+3nah... I completely disagree. If you buy something and then back out... I want the right to slam you with negative feedback. Because you just wasted my time, as someone else would've bought it
- BloggerJohn, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1Yeah well you can leave as much negative feedback as you want, its entirely pointless. But 3 non-payment strikes and you're gone!
Which is more effective?
- BloggerJohn, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1Yeah well you can leave as much negative feedback as you want, its entirely pointless. But 3 non-payment strikes and you're gone!
- eviljim, on 02/05/2008, -2/+32I don't think you've ever sold on eBay.
- DesignEx, on 02/05/2008, -2/+63I've had problems with buyers extending past just that. I've had a buyer wait until the last second before I could file a compliant with eBay for a non-paying bidder (a week), then they told me they were in fact out of the country and could have the money within a week or two. I waited, and when they finally got back to me they expected me to pay for the increased shipping overseas, and to an unconfirmed address. Some buyers deserve negative marks.
- banmaster, on 02/05/2008, -7/+12But its usually the sellers trying to extort a + feedback by threatening to leave a - one if you do it for them.
- DesignEx, on 02/05/2008, -0/+1Usually yes, but something should be done for those cases with problematic (yet eventually paying) bidders. I, as a seller, read through my bidders feedback, and it is often very helpful in determining potentially problematic buyers. Now all buyers will look exactly the same to the seller, so if you've built up excellent feedback as a buyer, it really doesn't matter so much anymore as eBaying is forcing positives or nothing.
- GreyICE, on 02/05/2008, -4/+1Um, what problems can you have with a buyer, other than 'didn't pay?'
- vertinox, on 02/05/2008, -0/+2Well they could be rather late in paying... I mean you can't pay your credit card 60 days overdue without them putting a bad mark on your credit history. Same thing should apply to buyers who habitually delay payments without notification or do asinine things like forget to sign a check. Eventually, you get paid but sometimes the grief may not be worth it.
- DesignEx, on 02/05/2008, -0/+1Usually yes, but something should be done for those cases with problematic (yet eventually paying) bidders. I, as a seller, read through my bidders feedback, and it is often very helpful in determining potentially problematic buyers. Now all buyers will look exactly the same to the seller, so if you've built up excellent feedback as a buyer, it really doesn't matter so much anymore as eBaying is forcing positives or nothing.
- MicheleFloyd, on 02/05/2008, -0/+2I would recommend always notifying eBay of nonpayment as soon as someone is late and doesn't respond to emails. I've always handled my "business" that way, and expected to be treated likewise in return. A negative comment here and there doesn't turn me away if I can see they were dealing with a knob-end.
- banmaster, on 02/05/2008, -7/+12But its usually the sellers trying to extort a + feedback by threatening to leave a - one if you do it for them.
- Christbait, on 02/05/2008, -2/+21It's eBay. They do not in any situation side with the sellers, only the buyers.
- endustry, on 02/05/2008, -4/+4This is not only untrue but counter-intuitive. Ebay makes ALL of their money from sellers and in my experience, they usually side with them over buyers. To each their own, though.
- ronin510, on 02/05/2008, -0/+3Depends on how you look at it. If there were no buyers, eBay's commission from the items sold disappears. No incentive for the seller to even put items up for sale, so no more listing commission either.
- screensnot, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1eBay doesn't care if they make their money from a handful of sellers, or a million different sellers. It's the total sales that are made, and that is dependent on the buyers.
- endustry, on 02/05/2008, -4/+4This is not only untrue but counter-intuitive. Ebay makes ALL of their money from sellers and in my experience, they usually side with them over buyers. To each their own, though.
- vertinox, on 02/05/2008, -3/+24You could leave a comment: "Great buyer! Did not send funds as promised! :) A+"
- merreborn, on 02/06/2008, -0/+4Doesn't scale though. The whole point of negative feedback, is that I don't have to read someone's whole damn feedback profile to see if they have any negatives.
I know someone with an ebay buyer account with tens of thousands of feedbacks (always as the buyer, never the seller in the transaction). Leaving them a "Did not send funds as promised" positive feedback would go totally unnoticed. Leaving them an actual negative feedback, on the other hand, at least lowers their feedback percentage and ups their negative feedback count.
- merreborn, on 02/06/2008, -0/+4Doesn't scale though. The whole point of negative feedback, is that I don't have to read someone's whole damn feedback profile to see if they have any negatives.
- GuruCesc, on 02/05/2008, -3/+8I agree with you on this, the seller should be able to leave negative feedback. But NOT as a response to the negative feedback from the Buyer. What I would suggest is that they separate the Buyer / Seller feedback so the sellers are not able to hurt the buyer's feedback when selling items...
- mcduckov, on 02/06/2008, -0/+4The whole feedback thing is skewed on Ebay. I do buying mostly but i do some selling at times so I don't want negative feedback. I have left 3 negative ratings and each seller richly deserved it. Two of those left me retaliatory negative feedback even though I had paid them immediately after the auction and tried multiple times to contact them.
As a long-time user i know that anything under about 98% is actually a really bad feedback record due to the above. However, a noob might not know this and think that 90% positive sounds pretty good when 90% is really quite bad on Ebay. In a "standard" setting where only buyers can leave feedback even 80% positive is pretty good. 80% positive on Ebay means the seller is probably a crook. - MauiMac, on 02/06/2008, -1/+5When someone places a bid on an item, eBay should hold that amount of funds from the buyer, requiring them to pay if they win...
- pandazoomix, on 02/06/2008, -1/+0Good is the enemy of great. Well, until Google comes along and makes things mostly totally f*#%ing awesome!
- BloggerJohn, on 02/05/2008, -11/+68For buyers its simple, like the article says - if you pay, you're a good buyer, so no problems there. If you dont pay, then ebay is handles it with a non-payment strike, so no need for negative feedback there either.
- evansad, on 02/05/2008, -6/+35This is all about profit before ethics. In the same way that most people dont leave negative feedback, it is also true that most people who never receive their goods or receive faulty goods are never refunded.
- banmaster, on 02/05/2008, -1/+9Yeah. Good luck getting a refund from ebay/paypal if you get screwed!
I've had to go through the process several times, and its an absolute nightmare.
Ebay are ONLY concerned about getting their comission from the seller, they don't give a rats ass about the buyer who has been ripped off and they make it as difficult as possible to get any sort of refund, and even then its only ever a partial refund.- compulsive1, on 02/05/2008, -0/+6I recently got crewed by two separate sellers on the same day- they turned out to be a couple. What are the chances of this happening? Anyway, I paid with Paypal and because it was a "non receive" and there was no response from the sellers to complaints, I got my money back. But, initially Paypal tried to pay me only a fraction of the money lost. I had to write multiple emails and call before they lived up to their User Agreement. So, be really extra caucious when using eBay. Especially in these difficult times some people might be tempted to get some quick cash through eBay.
- RyeBrye, on 02/05/2008, -2/+8Yep. I'm out $400 or $500 over the course of my time on eBay... which... come to think of it... is a hell of a lot less than I've saved there...
But... at least I have my turquoise star to show for it! - greysun, on 02/05/2008, -2/+3I have had a couple refunds on eBay and several of my friends have as well.
If you use paypal and you stay under the 'paypal protection up to $####' , a well documented and good ebay should have no problem getting refunds.
The negative feedback needs to stay, it shouldn't be all on the seller! - DefaultGen, on 02/06/2008, -0/+3Are you kidding? A buyer simply claims a game I sent him doesn't work, files a paypal dispute, sends me back *anything* (working or broken) and there's virtually nothing I can do. Sure this may prevent some retaliatory feedback from power sellers on small time buyers, but this really sucks for smaller sellers like me who get screwed by buyers.
- banmaster, on 02/05/2008, -1/+9Yeah. Good luck getting a refund from ebay/paypal if you get screwed!
- BuzzLightyear, on 02/05/2008, -19/+579I'm still waiting for Google to come up with a better, cheaper alternative to eBay.
Their monopoly needs to end.- techstar25, on 02/05/2008, -33/+27So you want to replace one monopoly with another?
- romistrub, on 02/05/2008, -4/+10... cuz that makes sense...?
- ChildeRoland420, on 02/05/2008, -3/+22How could Google be a monopoly if EBay's already doing it?
- form3hide, on 02/05/2008, -2/+13duopoly?
- Awspire, on 02/05/2008, -0/+15No, he wants competition, which we desperately need for online auctioning. Remember Yahoo auctions? I would love to see some major competition for Ebay, though Ebay does provide a good service, so they'll be hard to compete against. Even Yahoo couldn't make a go of it. That site was scammer haven.
- strictnein, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2I got scammed on an auction for a Commodore 128. I mean... who the hell sets up a scam auction for a C128? The guy broke my heart!
- bbqsalad, on 02/05/2008, -2/+1dudududuuuuuuuuuuu
- acatzr800, on 02/05/2008, -13/+5Sure.. lets pass the reins of Iraq off to Kim Jong Il too.. Trading one dictatorial overlord with another might not be a good idea.
- banmaster, on 02/05/2008, -1/+2Couldn't be much worse though.
- DesignEx, on 02/05/2008, -2/+3wtf?
- GrandCzar, on 02/05/2008, -0/+4Do you run Microsoft? I can't think of any other reason to call google a dictatorial overload.
- OMGIAMTHEMAN, on 02/05/2008, -1/+5if ebay would keep their listing prices down, say by doing like craigslist and finding less obtrusive means of making money, having one major auction site where the vast majority of traffic goes helps both buyers and sellers
- crash331, on 02/05/2008, -1/+6craigslist is OK, but not great. If i list something on ebay, it sells 90% of the time. I have had items sit on craigslist for months with no leads.
Also scammers seem to hang out at craigslist. They use the whole "Im gonna send you a check for 5 grand over what you asked, then you send me the 5 grand because that's all I can get a check for."- superstewy, on 02/05/2008, -1/+1It's called kijiji.com and it's owned by eBay
- WNW3, on 02/05/2008, -0/+3Just looked at it, perfer craig's list.
- superstewy, on 02/05/2008, -1/+1It's called kijiji.com and it's owned by eBay
- tucsonwc, on 02/06/2008, -0/+21. Ebay is an investor in Craigslist.
2. See Kijiji, also an ebay company.
3. Do you have any idea of the infrastructure costs needed to have an ecommerce platform that has 200 million registrered users with a transactional daily volume greater than Wall Street?
Doing that is NOT cheap. Servers, load balancers storage, the app engine all cost $ to maintain and keep running. In addition to the Customer Service costs as well. No Free Lunch.
- crash331, on 02/05/2008, -1/+6craigslist is OK, but not great. If i list something on ebay, it sells 90% of the time. I have had items sit on craigslist for months with no leads.
- sporb, on 02/05/2008, -7/+4support aderk.com
- mdcarso, on 02/05/2008, -0/+8Doesn't fit the bill since aderk.com is for Canadians only...
- ziptnf, on 02/05/2008, -5/+2Sounds like an excellent idea, but once a business like ebay is up and running, there's no way Google can get as many users as ebay unless this new product is leaps and bounds better than ebay.
- Qumahlin, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2You sir are the example of a horrible business man. You've given up your plan purely because the competition is "too good" or "too entrenched in the industry"
If you said that to a professor at someplace like Wharton they would tell you to just drop out now and give up any dreams you have of running a business. - lord2800, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2Yea, because that GMail thing never worked out for them. Hotmail and Yahoo still dominate the webmail market, y'know?
- Qumahlin, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2You sir are the example of a horrible business man. You've given up your plan purely because the competition is "too good" or "too entrenched in the industry"
- jeriqo, on 02/05/2008, -6/+42Couldn't agree more. eBay is almost as bad as MySpace.
- kahrytan, on 02/05/2008, -7/+8Then start your own auction site
- keith22, on 02/05/2008, -8/+31HAHA! Love it, replace one Monopoly with a bigger one, brilliant :)
- WaltJay, on 02/05/2008, -0/+10Google Base says hi (that is, before it died).
- FredFredrickson, on 02/05/2008, -3/+23Which monopoly are you talking about... Google or eBay?
- pirloui, on 02/05/2008, -3/+14Like Google wasn't a monopoly. Actually, Google is a larger monopoly than eBay.
- ChefGroovy, on 02/06/2008, -2/+1yeah can't wait until more people realize this and start getting the same ***** Microsoft did. do no evil, my ass.
- curiousgrge, on 02/06/2008, -1/+1They may be a monopoly, but what have you paid for coming from Google? You have all those marvelous apps they give for free but all you ever hear about is how ebay keeps screwing over the sellers by raising prices.
- skyshock1, on 02/05/2008, -1/+7They've already got Google Checkout as a pay system. They could probably tie that in pretty easily.
- digitallysick, on 02/05/2008, -3/+1If google would do this, and use gbuy, ebay would go bankrupt quick. I am not sure why they haven't yet i would use it for sure
- stuarttt, on 02/06/2008, -1/+22I don't think any of you know what monopoly means.
- Knikes, on 02/06/2008, -0/+3Amen.
- B3000, on 02/06/2008, -1/+1Doesn't a monopoly have something to do with wearing a monocle and a top-hat?
- GruntboyX, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2Thats all we need is to give a reason to make Google any bigger than it already is. How about another company to come along and create a competitive offering. Why does it have to be some big company that already exists.
- Flipperbw, on 02/06/2008, -1/+5eBay is fantastic, and extremely useful. Why does digg hate what is popular? Sometimes popular is good.
- pandazoomix, on 02/06/2008, -0/+0Good is the enemy of great. Well, until Google comes along and makes things mostly totally f*#%ing awesome!
(Apologies for same the post under Bukowski's comment)
- pandazoomix, on 02/06/2008, -0/+0Good is the enemy of great. Well, until Google comes along and makes things mostly totally f*#%ing awesome!
- mwomorris, on 02/06/2008, -2/+1Well said Buzz, I hadn't considered this but I would switch to a Google auction system straight away.
- Psythik, on 02/06/2008, -1/+1Overstock, anyone?
But then again, they're even worse than eBay... - camino262, on 02/06/2008, -0/+7gBay?
- willdelaney, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2craigslist?
- palmer, on 02/06/2008, -0/+3uBid.com?
Jeez, man, look around. - thailand1972, on 02/06/2008, -1/+1I love how eBay is a monopoly (on Digg), but Google isn't (on Digg). There are thousands of auction sites out there, just like there are thousands of search engines out there. If eBay is a monopoly, then so is Google.
- mCanada, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1Perhaps facebook has a better chance of making the next giant auction site. For better or worse. 10's of millions of people connected to each other via their real name so perhaps less "cellphon3s4u" alias and social networks of people trading stuff. Who knows? Eventually Zuckerberg may have a shot?
- techstar25, on 02/05/2008, -33/+27So you want to replace one monopoly with another?
- BreathofCepheus, on 02/05/2008, -30/+11Ridiculous, I can see where this will keep people from being held at ransom, but what happened to freedom of speech? If someone screws me over in a deal (it's happened) I want the world to know it!
- aeiou, on 02/05/2008, -4/+18Since when does freedom of speech apply in private sectors? They can regulate what they want you to and not to say all they want.
- Yez70, on 02/05/2008, -3/+9Freedom of Speech is a right that protects you from the GOVERNMENT, not companies or other people. Did you vote for eBay?
- diadem2, on 02/05/2008, -1/+2The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why ebay can do what it wants.
- banmaster, on 02/05/2008, -0/+2Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!
- diadem2, on 02/05/2008, -1/+2The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why ebay can do what it wants.
- scy1192, on 02/05/2008, -1/+0it doesn't say anything about banning 'neutral'
- mdcarso, on 02/05/2008, -3/+4That is what your blog is for.
- DarthDaddy, on 02/05/2008, -29/+19"Clap Clap Clap" for eBay if they decide to go through with this move.
- sockpuppets, on 02/05/2008, -2/+55SELLER GAVE ME THE CLAP WOULD NOT RECOMMEND! AVOID! - - - -
- Jeffler, on 02/05/2008, -2/+16A+++++ WOULD DIGG AGAIN!!!!! W@W
- alz0rz, on 02/05/2008, -0/+4L@@k
- PabloMac, on 02/05/2008, -0/+2I have always heard that developing a relationship with your customers is a good thing...
- Jeffler, on 02/05/2008, -2/+16A+++++ WOULD DIGG AGAIN!!!!! W@W
- scrappyvintage, on 02/05/2008, -3/+11Wait until all of the decent sellers stop selling due to the ridiculous feebay pricing. Ebay ***** sucks. Buyers will run rampant and ***** a lot of stuff up, I can already tell.
P.S. I've been selling for 5 years. Trust me, this will hurt the buyer as well. When the only items left to bid on are chinese made pieces of *****, you'll understand.- Kylyssa, on 02/13/2008, -0/+0Exactly! This move is going to greatly reduce the number of "Mom & Pop" sellers and individuals and leave the "made in Taiwan" mega stores to dominate.
- sockpuppets, on 02/05/2008, -2/+55SELLER GAVE ME THE CLAP WOULD NOT RECOMMEND! AVOID! - - - -
- saferwaters, on 02/05/2008, -14/+129This move is horrible for honest sellers. There is no shortage of unethical buyers out there who will make false damage claims, or state that the wrong item was sent, an item was missing, etc. With the new policy, unethical buyers can blackmail the seller into getting what they want. Also, this gives a buyer the power of giving an unjustified negative/neutral even if they get the product, but are unhappy with it for any reason. If I were selling some Epson printer that is NIB and the buyer isn't happy because the ink nozzles clog easily, I shouldn't be responsible because the buyer didn't do any research on the product. But the buyer can pretty much leave any feedback they desire since they won't be penalized back.
- audiologic, on 02/05/2008, -3/+5"It's easy to make a decision on who was right in a feedback situation after doing a few moments research on the buyer and seller's other history."
Not if both people can't make feedback - stephend, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1>>the buyer can pretty much leave any feedback they desire since they won't be penalized back
Yours is exactly the reason they are changing it - feedback is not to "penalize back". If you want to object to a negative feedback, you have always and still do have a right to reply.- saferwaters, on 02/06/2008, -0/+0@stephend - I mean "they won't be penalized back" as in there would be nothing deterring them from leaving unjustified negative feedback. Of course the seller can reply to the negative feedback, but most people just look at the %, and even if they do look at the reply, they wouldn't know who to believe. As I wrote in another post, I could live with the new system if they allowed me to block buyers who leave above a certain % of negative feedback.
- 2bees, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1I just had a buyer try and blackmail me into sending her something else, when she found out I wasn't buying her bs she stopped dead cold and never left ANY feedback. The sellers are getting the raw deal here. There are good and bad in every aspect of life but when you take away the ballance then one side will get worse.
- zeero, on 02/09/2008, -0/+1there are ways around all of this ***** that ebay has been spewing. you can get the buyer banned easily if they really screwed you over by creating a fake account in their name and then doing some extra stuff...
this definitely will suck for all the honest sellers, all the scammers will keep doing whatever it is they were doing before.
if someone got banned from ebay i found a guide on the web to get back - www.ivegot.info shows you how to create new accounts
- audiologic, on 02/05/2008, -3/+5"It's easy to make a decision on who was right in a feedback situation after doing a few moments research on the buyer and seller's other history."
- techstar25, on 02/05/2008, -16/+309Here is example of what they are trying to prevent:
Once I bought a game from a lady on eBay, but when I paid she never sent the game.
I left negative feedback like "I paid immediately but weeks later she never sent item and won't respond to emails".
She then left me negatve feedback "Buyer is mean and not very understanding".
WTF?!?!
Out of over 200 transactions, it's the only negative I've ever received.- MadKennyP, on 02/05/2008, -7/+64Are you mean? Maybe the seller knows you outside of the eBay world. Are you actually dating this seller?
- SatansSpatula, on 02/06/2008, -1/+24BUYER IS WITHDRAWN AND REFUSES TO CUDDLE. ALSO, PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE.
- natedouglas, on 02/06/2008, -2/+7SELLER STOPPED FELLATING ME IN 2003
- SatansSpatula, on 02/06/2008, -1/+24BUYER IS WITHDRAWN AND REFUSES TO CUDDLE. ALSO, PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE.
- elusiveqc, on 02/05/2008, -1/+31Almost the same thing happened to me. I waited six weeks, didn't receive the product and seller would not reply to emails. Submitted a 'not received' file with paypal... the seller still did not email me. Instead he gave me negative feedback saying 'sellers beware, buyer files fake complaints'. Anyway got my money back in the end but the mark is still there. When the seller finally contacted me it was only to demand that I remove the negative feedback that I'd submitted in response to theirs.... Umm yeah.
- booshack, on 02/05/2008, -1/+16Man that is painful. When reading that, I immediately felt the urge to beat that person with a heavy object. shrug
- hockey, on 02/05/2008, -4/+5you meanie.
- cgm1985, on 02/05/2008, -1/+14File a complaint with paypal, and don't leave feedback, works wonders.
- GrandCzar, on 02/05/2008, -2/+35Ok, here an example of what I've dealt with as a seller.
I sold a plant on eBay, the winner payed imminently, and I shipped the item the next day. The buyer then emailed me and said "I want that shipped in May". I told her I didn't want to keep the plant till may, that I sold the item to send then. She said that "other companies ship when it's time for her to plant. " She left me a negative feedback because I shipped the item right away. - Under this system, what am I suppose to do....
Oh and eBay didn't remove the feedback when i asked about it... so there you have it.- jun2san, on 02/05/2008, -1/+33You had me at "I sold a plant on ebay."
- ramenite, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2Yes, dugg for selling plants on ebay
- skyfyre, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1Thats when you tell her if she wants you to hold it til May, then youre going to charge her a storage fee.
- rolf, on 02/05/2008, -1/+15The world isn't perfect and it never will be. But this new system is just ripe for much worse abuse.
- PabloMac, on 02/05/2008, -0/+1That's almost the exact same situation I'm in right now. It's not fun, especially considering that half of the money I paid with is from a friend I'm splitting costs with.
- mztiklimit, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2Same thing happened to me, with the exception that I received an item that wasn't as the one described in the auction. Since the seller didn't answer any of my emails, I proceeded to write the him/her a negative feedback, to end up receiving one from the him/her as well. Since eBay has done this move, they should remove mine as well, it's the only negative feedback I have.
- merreborn, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1You can appeal unjust feedback. It's a pain in the ass, but you *do* have recourse.
- dvdchris, on 02/06/2008, -4/+1But...WERE you mean?? :)
- samcrut, on 02/06/2008, -0/+2If you're trying to get rid of retaliation, then get rid of retaliation. Eliminating negative feedback is throwing out the baby with the bath water. Negative feedback is a good thing. Feedback just needs to stay hidden until both parties have locked in.
- MadKennyP, on 02/05/2008, -7/+64Are you mean? Maybe the seller knows you outside of the eBay world. Are you actually dating this seller?
- whathappened, on 02/05/2008, -14/+237"My name is mustapha alhamdi alo barakh ak khan. I would like to offer you the sum of $450 for your item. i am