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And Here Comes The Spin On Tasers

notalawyer.com — Today a report is out about how Tasers are used by police officers to prevent suicide. And guess who sponsored this report? The Taser manufacturer. Damage control at its best.

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  • Albionshores, on 12/11/2007, -6/+121So what do people who are contemplating suicide need...
    Cuddles?
    A sympathetic ear?
    An authoritive figure to talk to them?

    Nope*. A good tasering always sorts them out! Taser. It's like love....but in a gun.
    • slashbot, on 12/11/2007, -13/+14Actually... incapacitating someone holding a gun to their head is probably the best thing you can do for them at that moment
      • OscaronV1, on 12/11/2007, -12/+9True.
        Except for the involuntary muscle spasming of the trigger finger. Or the occasional spark setting off gunpowder.
        But one is dead, and one is potentially dead.
        • shredswithpiks, on 12/11/2007, -3/+6there's no way the spark is going to set off the round.

          muscle spasms... well,
        • scbysnx, on 12/11/2007, -4/+2ok.. go hug the guy with a gun by all means
      • vertinox, on 12/11/2007, -2/+7It just means you are going to delay their suicide. They'll try some other way once they get out of the hospital and or cheap therapy.
        • chispito, on 12/11/2007, -3/+3Not everyone who attempts suicide ever succeeds, or even tries again.
        • DiggzDE, on 12/11/2007, -1/+4*Most people who attempt suicide will try again at some point if they fail. Unless their lives change drastically and I can bet you that a good tasering doesn't do much for encouraging them.
      • Qumahlin, on 12/11/2007, -0/+5Says you. Talking someone out of suicide is MUCH more effective because by speaking with them your giving them a chance to contemplate their actions and MAKE THEIR OWN DECISION. If you have someone who is honestly at that point and you prevent their suicidal act by tasing them you ARE NOT HELPING. All you did once again was impose YOUR will on someone who most likely has little to no control over thier current life. Many suicides take place because the person feels they have control over nothing, but atleast they control if they live or die.

      • sgtpppr, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1And what percentage of situations where a taser was used involved a potential suicide? I would think it's almost zero.
    • AMCer, on 12/11/2007, -4/+3Let the crazies kill themselves! It's nature's way of cleaning out the gene-pool!
      • Matteos, on 12/11/2007, -3/+2No, that would be chlorine.
        • AMCer, on 12/12/2007, -0/+2No, chlorine is for SWIMMING-pools. The "wedding-out process" is for GENE-pools.
        • dev3, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1I always thought that weddings were for society accepted forms of procreation...
      • kelt65, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1because it's the crazies who generally DON'T want to kill themselves.
  • doublehead, on 12/11/2007, -5/+54Ah, so we're going back to shock therapy? And now the police are the medical staff administering it. What's next, electric fences to keep us all in line?
    • ChaosMotor, on 12/11/2007, -0/+11Been to a large protest lately? They have the electric fences all ready for you.
  • phnx0221, on 12/11/2007, -3/+29I had to think carefully on this before I posted it, because, as opposed to the other taser related stories based on unnecessary taser use, unnecessary use of force, lies used in incident reports and reports to supervisor to cover up said unnecessary force, and deaths stemming from such use, this particular story, I have had a recent personal experience where this could have applied if caught in time, and saved a love one from taking his own life.

    On the other hand, after considering this, I still feel, deep in my heart, that tasers should be banned, or at the very least heavily restricted to personnel who have undergone psychiatric evaluation, scenario testing, and regular evaluations after issue of the taser.

    I don't think, that if someone were to catch someone in the act of committing suicide, that tasering would be the best option. There are other ways to apprehend someone, be it by negotiation, detainment, or as a last resort, the use of non lethal submission holds.

    I can't see that saying tasers could save lives by preventing suicide, can be a justification for the continued use of such devices. If I were to take a prescription drug, which had a significant number of potentially lethal side effect, and one positive effect, I wouldn't take it. I'd advocate for its removal from store shelves and doctor's offices (and hospitals, urgent care, etc). I have to look at this in the same light. The number of deaths caused by tasers should not be overlooked just because it has the potential to save a few.
    • kjizzle, on 12/11/2007, -9/+3William, Shatner, wants, his voice back.
      • vespoli, on 12/11/2007, -5/+2“Captain Kirk never burped out his lines, nor did he simply SPEAK! as IF! Every! Other! SYLlable! WAS! of DIRE! ImPORTance!”
      • arbulus, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1actually using proper commas and parenthetical phrases isn't Shatner-izing a discusion, it's just good grammar. The reason it's so odd is there are so few people who actually use commas correctly these days.
    • shaykai, on 12/11/2007, -4/+8Unfortunately some people cannot be negotiated with. If someone has a large kitchen knife to their throat and are threatening to kill themselves or anyone that tries to stop them, do you think its fair that a cop has to try and use 'non-lethal submission holds' to try and stop them from hurting themselves or others? Don't cops have a right to safety as well? I do believe that tasers are being used too much in situations when the bad guy doesn't have a weapon, but when it comes to armed suspects, I think that if the options are tasers or a bullet, I choose taser.

      On a side note, this article title is ridiculous with the "spin on tasers" comment. You only see news articles about the misuse of weapons, you never hear about the hundreds of times a day when they are used properly all over the country.
      • oldhick, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3You could just try to talk them down and if you can't, oh well.
      • vertinox, on 12/11/2007, -0/+5Why is it the cops job to prevent someone from committing suicide?
        If you want to go its your right. If you're not sure then the best solution is talking with an expert like a suicide hotline person.
        If someone tasers you, it doesn't stop you the next time you try to off yourself.
        • sgtpppr, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1Because the honest truth is that society as a whole has no interest in helping these people. They simply want them out of public where they cause a scene. Tasering them, arresting them, and charging them with a crime (yes, it's illegal to try and kill yourself in most states) removes them from the public eye. It's actually pretty sad. I'm sure what a suicidal person needs is jail time to help sort out their life....sheesh.
      • buckrogers1965, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3Since tasers should only be used to replace the use of gun, then if tasers are being used hundreds of times a day then that is actually evidence that tasers are being used improperly.

        Would a cop shoot someone who was arguing with them? No. But they feel free to use a taser in the same situation just to get pain compliance.

        Which is not only wrong, but a crime against humanity according to the UN commission against torture.
    • Wargalas, on 12/11/2007, -4/+3And if they are too far away for your "non lethal submission holds" then what? How do you plan on "detaining them"? For example, if someone's near a ledge of a building, where safely tazering them would end the situation, now if you take that tool away from cops, what tool are you putting into their hands?
      • ryodoan, on 12/11/2007, -0/+5If they are near the edge of a building, they wouldnt be tasered anyway because they would fall off the roof...

        Tasers are overused, but seriously, if the options are of my brothers brains splattered on the wall from a self inflicted gun wound, or have him tasered so he doesnt shoot himself, I pick taser.

        Gun = Always in the hospital, and probably dead.
        Taser = Always on the ground, probably not in the hospital. (other than the psyche ward)
        • Wargalas, on 12/11/2007, -2/+1Near the ledge doesn't mean ON the ledge.
        • shredswithpiks, on 12/11/2007, -1/+4^^^ hey guys lets argue the semantics of a ridiculous example
      • newinvestor123, on 12/11/2007, -1/+4Here's what you do: Let them fall.
      • sgtpppr, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1Did you honestly just say people standing on the edge of a building should be tasered instead of grabbed? it's logic like this that has put a taser in the hands of every cop with the instructions to taser anyone who doesn't cooperate immediately in every way.
    • sugarazor, on 12/11/2007, -4/+1"tasers should be banned, or at the very least heavily restricted to personnel who have undergone psychiatric evaluation, scenario testing, and regular evaluations after issue of the taser."

      Oh you mean like a police officer? Police officers undergo psychiatric evaluation, scenario testing and their performance is meticulously evaluated after any sort of incident.
      • newinvestor123, on 12/11/2007, -0/+9You've obviously missed the orgy of taser abuse in the last six months.
        • sugarazor, on 12/11/2007, -3/+1I've seen the orgy of articles about it on Digg because people have a hard-on for making it look like if you're tased, you die. Yeah, there are incidents of certain cops abusing their power, like the pregnant woman getting tased over the weekend. That's wrong, and that cop should be punished accordingly.

          However, that's one newsworthy story. Most times a taser is deployed, it's on someone who is breaking the law and needs to be caught. Sure, there's plenty of articles with an agenda here on Digg, but that's not how taser usage usually plays out.

          Police officers aren't all bad. They go through extensive training and many departments require recruits to be tased themselves to understand what kind of tool a taser really is. Cops get a bad rap on Digg and it's just not cool.
    • vertinox, on 12/11/2007, -0/+5Here is my take. I don't plan on committing suicide. Hence, if a cop is using a taser on me it isn't most likley in my best interest.
      If you are a person committing suicide, I personally feel you have a right to end your life as long as it doesn't endanger anyone else. Obviously if you called the cops and or haven't acted fast enough to kill yourself it means what you are doing is a cry for help. That is also your responsibility.

      To enable cops to have power over us who are choosing not to commit suicide is not a fair bargain. Again, tasering a suicidal person won't make them any less suicidal after the fact.
    • Wonderama, on 12/11/2007, -2/+0I'd rather have some out-of-control police officer pull the trigger on a Taser rather than a gun. It's a great compromise in an imperfect world.

      I call B.S. on the title of this article, btw. It's plainly meant to incite sympathy for the author's agenda.
    • phnx0221, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4Look, the fact of the matter, is that in light of recent events regarding excessive taser (or electrifying stun gun) use, and the deaths caused thereafter, this is a situation that must be looked at carefully. We have all seen the videos, heard the audio recordings, and have read articles written about numerous police officers subduing a non-combatant person by use of taser. We have seen police officers using tasers against citizens simply because they gave the officer "attitude", or "didn't obey reasonable requests". We have seen numerous police officers approaching agitated persons, and tasering them when other means could have been applied to settle this person down. Look at the case of the Polish man who died immediately after being tasered numerous times by a group of police officers, while one was holding him down with a knee to the throat. Yes, he was agitated, yes he was throwing things around. However, he was locked in a secure room for ten hours, stuck in an airport, with no one communicating to him anything in regards to how much longer he was going to have to be stuck in there, why he was there in the first place, or what options he had other than being stuck in a secluded room for hours at a time. He didn't speak any English, and the security and police personnel didn't speak Polish, yet the immediate assumption was that the use of the taser was the first means to subdue this person.

      We have read the reports of police tasering a wheelchair bound person because they were in a state of delirium. We read reports of police tasering a deaf person because they responded to the wrong house.

      When people die after being tasered, the police departments, and the taser company issue reports that they actually died because of excited delirium, which isn't even recognized by the medical community for being a legitimate cause of death.

      These things must be taken into consideration when debating the rights and wrongs of the continued use of something that while considered to be non-lethal, was promoted and issued to be used only in absence of a gun. So, instead of shooting someone, you would subdue them with a shock of 50,000 volts. This isn't for disobeying orders, for being rude, for asking questions to a Senator in a question and answer session, or for expressing agitation when placed in an agitating situation. This is something to be used in lieu of a gun.

      Therefor, if the taser device is going to be continued in use, there MUST be tighter regulations imposed on the police officers who are carrying them. There must be tighter psychiatric evaluations for the officers who are issued, background checks, and continued psychiatric evaluations on a regular basis. Because, it is quite apparent, that while there are officers who don't have such a high power trip that they deploy tasers for such unjust and illegal purposes, there are enough of them that do to warrant a national debate on the subject.
  • in2deep, on 12/11/2007, -2/+20I think only the Care Bear Police Department carries rainbow tasers.
    • Otto, on 12/11/2007, -1/+3What do you think a "Care Bear Stare" really is?
  • brentinkc, on 12/11/2007, -6/+35An informative video from the ACLU about tasers, their physical dangers, and the violations of civil rights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU
    • aschmack, on 12/11/2007, -8/+1Because the ACLU is an unbiased source.
      • brentinkc, on 12/11/2007, -0/+6Maybe you should give the video a chance before just bashing it
      • MattB123, on 12/11/2007, -0/+6It's true they are biased. They are clearly favoring our civil liberties over profiteering and fascism, those bastards.
    • gandre, on 12/11/2007, -1/+4i feel so punk'd
    • sotopheavy, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1Rick Roll is such a badass!!!11one1shift1 NOT
  • manicallday, on 12/11/2007, -10/+25As a black male I have to say at least there's an option to the nightstick or gun. Now when I pullout my wallet, candy bar, pen, phone or anything else that doesn't look like a gun, or ask for directions from a cop, at least I stand a chance for survival. The bottom line is that some cops -and mostly black by the way- will always harass blacks like me because I pose no threat. So i If I have a choice, I would much rather get shocked for thirty seconds than beaten, maced or shot. This way I'm able to go to work without having to explain wounds and why I got beaten up by the cops, which would probably lead to my dismissal. So thank you Taser International.
    • OMGWTFROFLMAOx2, on 12/11/2007, -15/+19***** please.
    • BoneheadFarker, on 12/11/2007, -5/+11Did you ever stop to think that maybe you don't deserve to be harrassed, and should be fighting just as hard as your civil right era counterparts did to put an end to the harassment? Just because they won one battle doesn't mean your war is over...
      • oldhick, on 12/11/2007, -1/+2Did you ever think YOU should be fighting. Once you stop think like "they won the battle" and turn it into "WE" won the battle this country can start moving forward.
        • BoneheadFarker, on 12/12/2007, -0/+0Quite frankly, I'm not American. I don't see the rampant racism and abuse that seems to exist there. I support the normal American citizen, but you have to fight this yourselves.
    • imacommi, on 12/11/2007, -1/+20The option is not supposed to be a choice between a taser or getting beaten/maced/shot. The whole problem is that figures of authority misuse their equiptment and use unnecessary force. Bottom line is that whether it is mace/a night stick/ a gun/ a taser there have been problems of misuse and tasers are especially prone to this misuse because they are deemed "non-lethal"
      • ryodoan, on 12/11/2007, -2/+3Then why ban a piece of equipment, rather than instead lobby for proper use of said equipment? Make them fill out pages of paperwork for discharging a taser and I am willing to bet the occurances go down.
        • oldhick, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4How do you train someone in the proper use of a taser? They are already trained. They are trained that it is non-lethal and they resort to its use frequently. Taser me and get shot!
      • newinvestor123, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4Tasers are too easy to use, and there is (usually) no side effects, hence the abuse of them.
    • fuelcell, on 12/11/2007, -0/+10Absolutely hilarious! I think some people are missing the sheer ***** comedy here. "Hi, I'm a young black male and I prefer getting Tasered over maced, beaten or shot. Thank you, Taser International." Now, that's an endorsement I'd like to see on my television.
      • manicallday, on 12/11/2007, -1/+2It doesn't look like too many people got it. Oh well.
        • Railer, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1And if you keep bread in your pocket it's a convent way to make toast!

          I got it, it was damn funny, with just a touch of social commentary and irony, the best kind of comedy.
      • ronintetsuro, on 12/11/2007, -2/+1Agreed. That was the single most retarded and obviously manufactured thing I've read all week.
    • DarkSamus, on 12/11/2007, -2/+7why the ***** do you pull out snicker bars when cops pull you over?
      • Nickel1899, on 12/11/2007, -0/+7a possible bargining chip?
      • newinvestor123, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3The peanuts satisfy the hunger.
      • OMGWTFROFLMAOx2, on 12/11/2007, -0/+6Given the history of the criminal justice system as it pertains to minorities in this country, perhaps he knew he 'wasn't going anywhere for a while"?
        • manicallday, on 12/11/2007, -0/+2Now that's really funny. That's a perfect comedy sketch.
      • buckrogers1965, on 12/11/2007, -0/+1Exactly, everyone knows that cops love donuts better.
    • hipRealtor, on 12/11/2007, -1/+3Why, do you suppose, are the black cops picking on their brothers like that? I'm surprised to read that it's blackcop-on-black harassment going on out there....
      • Qumahlin, on 12/11/2007, -0/+2for the same reason that white cops often pick on white people...people are people. The fact that you bring skin color into it at all is the real question.

        Black Human + power = Abuse/Corruption
        White Human + power = Abuse/Corruption



        • buckrogers1965, on 12/11/2007, -0/+1So there is no racism? Wow, I am glad to hear that.
          • manicallday, on 12/11/2007, -0/+1It's still racism. It's just by proxy.
    • pintomp3, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4oh thank you massa. you sho is nice fo jes taserin me.
      dude, innocent blacks shouldn't be hassled to begin with. you sound like a house slave. how about you get neither shot nor tasered? is it really too much to expect the police the protect and serve instead of profile and harass?
  • RealSurreal, on 12/11/2007, -5/+6So how many times is this going to be the case where it actually saves someone from themselves, I'm sure it's a small percentage, so small and rare it just doesn't seem justified in my mind. I would not be surprised if half of these people their trying to save die from tasers. Nice try but this is *****
    • Pake, on 12/11/2007, -1/+2From 2001 to 2006, only 150 people died from tasers. In Canada (who is one of the leaders in issuing them to police officers), only 16 have died over 4 years. Comparable, the chance of dying to a taser is small as *****.
      • oldhick, on 12/11/2007, -2/+6Wow, only 150???? Cause I don't get worried until the at least 152!!!

        Since only a few people die, tase the ***** out of everyone.
        • Pake, on 12/11/2007, -3/+1Considering the thousands of usages per year, that's less than a 1% chance to die from one.
          • oldhick, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1Well ***** an A then, taze the ***** out of me then!
      • buckrogers1965, on 12/11/2007, -1/+1I don't believe your numbers. I know that in the week after thanksgiving at least 4 people died in Canada from taserings. 4*52 is over 200 deaths in the past year alone. They just are not being reported.
        • Pake, on 12/11/2007, -0/+1There are taserings and then there are tasering deaths. Probably what you heard was 4 taserings over thanksgiving.
    • Niceguy4186, on 12/11/2007, -0/+2Probably close to the same percentage, if not higher, than of tazers that kills someone. The only difference is that it doesn't get the media of a death.
    • MattB123, on 12/11/2007, -1/+4About as often as you get saved by being "thrown free" from an accident when not wearing your seatbelt.
    • olsonea, on 12/11/2007, -1/+2Pake, the total number of tazer deployment for the same date range, please? The chance of dying is not "small as *****" if the total number of deployments for the same time period is 150.
  • nblsavage, on 12/11/2007, -3/+22Tasers are a substitute for the use of a gun and should be treated with the same care and respect as one. Using it as a quick fix is irresponsible.
    • isaactwito, on 12/11/2007, -0/+2Thank you.
      I'd also like to point out how the "suicide prevention" that the taser manufacturers are talking about is almost completely suicide by police prevention. That being people who try to kill themselves by getting a cop to shoot them because they're doing something that is a danger to public safety.
      And while I think this kind of advertising by the taser people is a bit of a stretch, I don't see why people are making such a big deal. The company is praising their own product, and trying to make people think it's super great. I don't see any of you tearing apart comments people make saying "omg linux r t3h greetest evar!!!!!" because most of you are those people. It's advertising, get used to it.
  • gnomey, on 12/11/2007, -1/+3RealSurreal - "this is *****"
    Well, that was pretty much my point that I think you kinda missed.
  • Navicerts, on 12/11/2007, -2/+8Tazers in and of themselves are not the problem. It's really no different from the gun issue, guns themselves are not the problem, just a tool.

    That said there IS a problem but it lies in how the police are getting trained, what police are getting hired, or maybe how police are evaluated and re-trained on a periodic basis, hell i don't know. The point is you can't legitimately lay the blame on a tool, lots of things are dangerous if used in the wrong way. If there is a certain % chance that the suspect will die when he/she is tazered, it needs to be appropriately weighed when deciding to taze or not (no different from a gun, but less dangerous).
    • nblsavage, on 12/11/2007, -2/+6I agree, I don't think tasers should be banned, but proper training is a must and it doesn't seem like the police are getting it. Just because something is billed as "non-lethal" doesn't mean it's harmless or there won't be lasting effects.
    • MattB123, on 12/11/2007, -1/+3Tazers don't taze people, cops (and rent-a-cops) do!
  • Alegoo92, on 12/11/2007, -10/+5Yea.. THIS is the spin... Not all of this "Don't tase me, bro" and anti-police-using-any-sort-of-physical-measure ***** clogging the tubes. This is the first piece of spin i've seen.
  • ElAssoWipo, on 12/11/2007, -8/+11It's not a spin, that idea was pushed before the tazer was even introduced.

    Tazers are not supposed to replace the gun. They are ANOTHER tool. Quit repeating that crap. You can't tazer someone who is holding a gun, their fingers clinch. People who threaten others with fire arms get shot to death. That's how people commit suicide by cop anyway.

    Claiming that the tazer is dangerous is correct. Claiming that the tazer saves lives is correct. IT's a ***** TOOL.

    You'll have to make the argument that tazer are more dangerous than firearms in order to make the point that cops shouldn't use them. Simply because the other side will make the argument that it is still less harmful than a firearm, which all police officer carry.

    You could give cops a spoon and they'll find a way to hurt you with it. Why? Because they are allowed by law to hurt you until you comply. That means all you have to do is comply.

    Now, bad cops exist. But bad cops with guns, tazers, sporks, metal pipes, nightsticks, telephones, gloves, wires, bricks, rocks or whatever else you want to put in their hands will remain bad cops.

    So, instead of wasting everybody's time, money and other ressources arguing that a ***** inanimate object is somehow "bad" you should concentrate on giving better training to your officers, better equipment and espescially, better investigations of complaints against the police made by citizens.

    • MattRK, on 12/11/2007, -5/+5I can't wait to read a story on digg about a cop killing someone with a spoon. Next thing you know people will start spamming digg with threads about Spoon Deaths and how the spoon industry paid for ads to promote silverware. GOD can you imagine that?
  • KaiSe7eN, on 12/11/2007, -3/+5Yes, because when I'm at the crossroads of my life and debating whether or not I should kill myself, may the lord bring down a wrath of 100 policemen to tase me back to sanity. Thanks....
    • 1timeuser, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1honestly, after reading some of your comments i think many people on digg would just prefer you killed yourself.
  • slashbot, on 12/11/2007, -14/+5Oh no! Not the tazers!!!!

    I guess the bleeding hearts would prefer the bean-bag guns or being clubbed by batons, or lethal force?
    • nblsavage, on 12/11/2007, -2/+7shaddap you twit. Some of us are asking that cops use the damn things responsibly and not just whip them out because someone gives them a little lip.
      • Pake, on 12/11/2007, -3/+3Majority are used responsibly. All you're getting is the negative news, because the positive just isn't worth reading to you.
    • Smalldude76, on 12/11/2007, -9/+2omg noes! teh feather launches will be good enuff!!1!
      • nblsavage, on 12/11/2007, -2/+5Settle down junior, this discussion is for the adults.
        • Smalldude76, on 12/11/2007, -0/+1Come now, bar the bit of negative media they're getting, tasers aren't as "lethal" as people make them out to be. It's a bunch of cranks over-reacting and the bandwagoneers are all hopping on for the ride. Really, cops are shot with tasers once as part of their training before going on duty - there was even a video of it going around a while back about a cop who got shot in the balls by one. Now that was a bit of a laugh.

          And an adult wouldn't be putting on a personal attack in a discussion, for the record. But I guess below the belt shots are okay to some people ;)
  • cambob76, on 12/11/2007, -6/+7People should stop calling it 'tasering' or saying that so and so got 'tasered'. Taser is the company name. These people are being electrocuted, not 'tasered'.
    • oldhick, on 12/11/2007, -1/+2Its called branding. Its very common.
    • ThE0eNiGmA, on 12/11/2007, -0/+2That only applies if they died, otherwise they are just "shocked."
    • drlha, on 12/11/2007, -1/+1I totally agree with you. I'm off to Google the rest of your comments, right after I've finished the Hoovering, and watching that show I TiVo'd last night.
    • Wonderama, on 12/11/2007, -2/+0May I have a Kleenex, please?
    • pintomp3, on 12/11/2007, -0/+2good point. it's kinda like waterboarding. the device they are placed on is the waterboard. the act itself is controlled drowning. but in this day and age of spin, changing the word changes the perception of the act.
  • Fl4sh, on 12/11/2007, -3/+3True story: a friend of mine tried to kill himself with a tazer.
    • phanophish, on 12/11/2007, -6/+1Tried? To listen to all the anti taser people, just one zap from the thing and he would have been dead. The bottom line is they are a less lethal method of subduing a non cooperative subject. Like anything they can be misused, but I would much rather the cops have a less lethal option than a handgun in as many situations as possible. Tazers have prevented many people, both suspects and officers, from being hurt, far more than have been seriously injured or killed by them.
      • shredswithpiks, on 12/11/2007, -0/+2you're almost right... in that tasers are a good thing for cops to have. people are pissed because cops are going nuts with the tasers.

        I mean... how did cops handle situations before tasers existed? They certainly weren't going around shooting down every uncooperative person they came across. They do seem to be pretty taser happy with anyone who isn't cooperative.
    • philz, on 12/11/2007, -3/+1was he tasered when he tried to tase himself?
  • chriscooley, on 12/11/2007, -3/+5video of tasers preventing suicides
    http://blutube.policeone.com/Clip.aspx?key=BB7A44A ...
  • mrgreenjeans, on 12/11/2007, -1/+11So, if someone has their finger on the trigger and the barrel in their mouth, 50,000 volts constricting every muscle in the body is going to save them, how?
  • greaseddeafguy, on 12/11/2007, -8/+1No one in America is a criminal anymore, they are all now victims.
  • bicyclethief, on 12/11/2007, -6/+1Don't let me go to Purgatory bro.
  • subterfuge, on 12/11/2007, -1/+6i want to see someone try to drown themself in a pool full of children. how many officers would remember that water conducts electricity?
  • precariouscow, on 12/11/2007, -10/+2"Jesus H Tap Dancing Christ!" I guess some people won't be happy until the cops are running around with belts as weapons to spank those who are breaking the law. Dammit, this coddled society will be the end of us all. Most of us don't want to do that job, but the "european cigarettes" of our society feel as though they should be the ones to tell law enforcement how to do "enforce" the law. Insane!
    • ElAssoWipo, on 12/11/2007, -2/+2Bah, don't worry about it. It's yet another of many wide spread false-contradictions.

      They hate cops and figures of authority that rough up criminals. If the victim of police brutality is an innocent person, a woman, an elderly person or a child, they want that cop to "fry" and make all kinds of arguments about how cops should use the minimal amount of force required to aprehend a suspect. And of course, cops are pigs and they're dumb and they're all compensating for small penises, and they all have an inferiority complex that turned into an authority complex.

      But, they hate criminals, espescially murderers, rapists, pedophiles and rich white collar criminals. Then they want these people to die. They talk about lynch mobs, torture, amputation, castration, making them pay, having them raped, etc. And how these people are sick, can't be rehabilitated, are animals, are incurably insane, etc. And if the victim killed the suspect, even in the case of a simple robbery, they have a mental orgasm.

      And of course, you always have the middle ground guy who gets dugg down into oblivion for making a reasonnable point. And the radical guy who wants all police to disappear or says something that makes absolutely no sense to any sane person.

      They hate cops, but if it weren't for cops, they'd be killing people for cutting in line, for stealing, etc. Their justice would be much worse. Luckily, we always end up with something in between.
  • slashbot, on 12/11/2007, -11/+2Maybe if we all share our feelings, we can wish the criminals to arrest themselves.
  • alpha94, on 12/11/2007, -1/+7If you stop them from killing themselves by a taser, there was no meaningful decision on their part to change their lives. The instant they are able to they will just try and do it again.
    • shadydentist, on 12/11/2007, -3/+1If you don't stop them from killing themselves, then they have even less of an opportunity to change their lives.
    • chispito, on 12/11/2007, -1/+1Because everyone who attempts suicide once will try again and succeed.
  • wipis, on 12/11/2007, -3/+2I know the taser has been abused and many people have been unnecessarily tasered. But the fact of the matter is it is a tool for a lot of police. A lot of good police. Who used to have no other way of restraining a dangerous or violent person without a gun or club. Mace is ok but I've heard a lot of bad stories about that too. So until we have a phaser with a stun setting or all police are trained psychiatrist and can talk their way out of anything they will need something that will get that man to put down the knife or stop resisting arrest.
    • buckrogers1965, on 12/11/2007, -0/+1The hands of 6 police officers can safely subdue even the strongest man alive who has studied martial arts for 20 years and is wacked out on PCP without leaving a single bruise on anyone.

      Why is the choice only nothing or a beat down?
  • murf43143, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4Who is to say they can't off themselves if they want? GENE POOL people, gene pool......
  • InContrast, on 12/11/2007, -0/+7So it kills those who want to live, but it saves those who want to die... It doesn't seem like it makes anybody happy. However, I know the point of tasers, it's should be the alternative for a gun, but some officers misuse it, and many more are not trained properly.
    • chispito, on 12/11/2007, -2/+0Kills those who want to live?

      What's the mortality rate on these again?
  • Look4Truth, on 12/11/2007, -0/+5Save the suicidals and kill everyone else, sure, sounds fair to me.
    • Superfreak77, on 12/11/2007, -0/+2sounds inline with policy!
      "we be going to irak to save you from tyranny!, and we need tanks and guns to hurt you to get it done!"
  • gjbrown, on 12/11/2007, -5/+1As a personal preference, I'd rather be shot with a taser than a gun when I'm in my out of control PCP/Meth psychosis.
  • chesscat, on 12/11/2007, -4/+2The problem as I see it, is that not enough people are getting tasered. There are lots of posters here who could do with a good taserin'.
  • pkonink, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4Here's what is probably the most unpopular viewpoint of them all: a person should be allowed to take their own life. It's their OWN life after all. Why accept the government interfering with a decision of this magnitude? Why is suicide illegal? Isn't it a fundamental right to do what you wish with your own property - your body being your original and most valuable property?
    • chesscat, on 12/11/2007, -4/+0You have my permission.
    • buckrogers1965, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3I agree, I think that you should be allowed to commit suicide. However, that being said, I think that before you are allowed you should have to make a good faith effort to talk to a minister, councilor or bartender of your choice first before doing so.
      • pkonink, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1I totally agree. I don't think suicide is a good thing. But it has always boggled my mind that you would put someone in prison because they tried to suicide. That is tantamount to the government saying "I own you."
  • ilves7, on 12/11/2007, -2/+2Tasers should not be banned, since in some situations, they are still preferable to getting shot by a gun. I think most people would rather take electrocution with a small chance of death over being shot by a gun. Violent/enrage, but unarmed, assailants should still be tasered, but the issue is the widespread usage of tasers without provocation. Police need to be trained to use them as a last resort, just like guns, so that they can be used properly.
    • buckrogers1965, on 12/11/2007, -0/+1Nobody is arguing that tasers are not great for replacing the use of a gun. It's when police officers use them as pain compliance devices that everyone has an issue with them. Including the UN commission on torture, which states that using tasers as pain compliance tools is considered torture and a crime against humanity.

      There is no way to force an officer to only use the devices in lethal situations. So the only real alternative is to ban them strait out to eliminate them as a tool of abuse.
  • leif777, on 12/11/2007, -5/+0All this attention to tasers is unwarranted considering the amount of damage guns do. It's actually laughable that a weapon that kills 30,000+ people in the US each year is allowed to exist when tasers have killed 4 or five people since it's use and are probably used at a higher frequency and is being considered to be banned. I'd rather be unnecessarily tased than unnecessarily shot. At least I'd be alive.
    • buckrogers1965, on 12/11/2007, -0/+1Nobody is claiming guns are less lethal.
  • dkern, on 12/11/2007, -1/+2These taser manufacturers are going to boil and die horrible deaths so I hope they enjoy the money while they can- *****!
  • gl77, on 03/31/2008, -5/+2christ, if digg would specifically let me filter out taser related stories and ron paul stories, it would be a damn perfect website.
    • kreatre2007, on 12/11/2007, -2/+2Amen!!!
    • buckrogers1965, on 12/11/2007, -1/+2You can always just "not click" on stories you don't want to read. Not like someone will taser you for that.
      • gl77, on 03/31/2008, -0/+1pretty hard when 9 out of 10 stories on the front page is either taser related or Ron Paul related...maybe they should taser Ron Paul..........
    • Albionshores, on 12/12/2007, -2/+1You can. People who submit Ron Paul stories tend to be repeat offenders - block them. Doing the same with Tasering stories might be a bit more difficult but at least there'd be a lot less of what you don't like - you could always try doing the not clicking thing like BuckRogers over there suggested.

      You could always try
  • MrESaulved, on 12/11/2007, -3/+4Ban the use of human electrocuting devices in law enforcement now.
  • kreatre2007, on 12/11/2007, -1/+2I think it's ridiculous how much we're hearing these days about cops tasering citizens. It definitely seems like they are doing this way too often. Let's all carry tasers ourselves and start tasing the cops every time they piss us off. By the time they lift their fat asses off the ground we'll be long gone.
    • gl77, on 03/31/2008, -1/+1or they could just shoot you in the head..............
      • Corrosionx, on 12/11/2007, -1/+2Or they could stop seeing everything as Us vs Them and thinking they own us.
  • tidusmasterx, on 12/11/2007, -0/+2I seem to remember earlier this year a taser incident that involved San Angelo police tasering a mentally ill person. The thing that struck me as odd was that the mentally ill person doused himself with gasoline, so the San Angelo police thought it a bright idea to taser him. Of course this resulted in an instantly fried suspect. But remember, fellow diggers, Tasers prevent suicides by causing deaths. When mixed with gasoline of course.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2007/jun/20/burns- ...
    • buckrogers1965, on 12/11/2007, -0/+1Technically it's not a suicide if the cops kill you.
    • grahamchilla, on 01/04/2008, -0/+1No, actually this time the newspaper got it wrong, and gosangelo is ran by the san angelo standard times, I spoke with some of the family and some of the officers (this happened while I was a waiter downtown) and the guy, doused in gas himself, started throwing gasoline on the officers, all the while having a lighter in his hand, so the papers left out that important part in the story, the officers could have gone down in flames and had little choice.
  • djmounce553, on 12/11/2007, -1/+4"I guess some people won't be happy until the cops are running around with belts as weapons to spank those who are breaking the law. "

    Umm, no. We just want officers to know WHEN it's ok to use force. The reason for the outrage is regarding the complete misuse of force regarding the tools they use, be it a tazer, mace, or a gun. If someone has a knife, I think a tazer is a viable option. If someone is being somewhat insulting, just write them a harsher ticket! The thing that bothers me the most is when cops take a power trip and assume that they can meet anything that offends them with force. If you applied any of the civilian laws,even loosly, regarding assault and battery to cops, we'd have alot of policemen in jail.
  • Pahtcub, on 12/11/2007, -3/+2I am so sick of hearing about tasers and waterboarding, can we take it to another site please? This site is for iPhones and ubuntu...
  • kore64, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4Why aren't I allowed to commit suicide? How is this a good use of a Taser?
  • Corrosionx, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4Tasers are lethal force and should only be used in the same situations a gun would be fired: ie. not to obtain obedience, but if the cops feels his life is in danger.
  • gerran, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4Tasers prevent suicides by killing the person before they can kill themselves. Genius marketing and business strategy if you ask me. Taser's PR guy deserves a cookie.
  • kharvelan, on 12/11/2007, -2/+0I find it funny that people complain about a taser possibly killing someone when a bullet is much more deadly.
  • hipRealtor, on 12/11/2007, -1/+2Since 2005, 150 American citizens were killed by cops using tasers. I don't know how many were lucky enough to live through their tasering session.
    • bingobongony, on 12/11/2007, -0/+2Sources for that number? (And your imagination is not a good source.)
    • buckrogers1965, on 12/11/2007, -0/+1I bet the number is an order of magnitude higher than that, if anyone actually bothered to do a study. Taser Inc. doesn't count as an impartial source of valid numbers.

      How many "mystery" deaths for no good reason or heart failure in people too young to have this problem have them been in the few days after a tasering. I bet there are hundreds more that we could find if we bothered to keep statistics on it.
  • reechme, on 12/11/2007, -2/+1This is hillarious. An american author, and an american digger taking a snide poke at tasers? Erm, hello. Guns are more available in the US than tasers, and to be honest, guns tend to kill a lot more easily!
    While I still think this piece of spin is deplorable, I'm unsure of the tone of the article ;)
  • bingobongony, on 12/11/2007, -4/+1rawstory talking about spin? Holy ***** *****! You can't make that up.
  • SlyMm, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3Why not just start the lawsuits when it comes to tasers? I don't like lawsuits, but they can be very effective with certain things. A MASSIVE class action against the company that manufacture these devices should be in order brought forth by anyone who's been tased for some ***** reason. *Of course* they help with suicidal people not wielding firearms; the police chief here in Toronto always parrots a specific case where an individual was tased who had been stabbing himself, and rightly so. But other than that, in situations where the officers were just being lazy, bring out the evil lawyers.
  • network, on 12/11/2007, -0/+1So now we can't use tasers?
  • Yage2006, on 12/11/2007, -0/+2Ya know its not the tasers its the people that wield them that are the problem .
    If they didn't have tasers they would have there billy clubs or those big flashlights they carry around witch would not be much better,
    I think the knee jerk reaction against the tasers should be directed at the abusive cops that use them .
    Perhaps fire them or something? Maybe make a example out of them so the others chill out a bit ?
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