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- GeeksSpeakFont, on 10/14/2008, -2/+33the R word was bound to be confirmed one of these days...
- drmobutu, on 10/15/2008, -3/+5Republican?
- Stuart750, on 10/15/2008, -3/+3You're a fool. Ron Paul, a Republican, would've helped to stabilize the economy better than any other Democratic, Republican or Independent candidate in this election, and the candidacy race previous to that.
- col381, on 10/16/2008, -1/+1Yeah, but sadly Ron Paul (the one Republican that is actually a true conservative) is by far in the minority of how Republicans think. It often surprises be that he is not a Democrat as he is certainly on the far left of his colleagues.
- drmobutu, on 10/15/2008, -3/+5Republican?
- mkovacev, on 10/14/2008, -1/+27surprise surprise...
- nycmac247, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3oops I just recession
- PhilLesh69, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2No, it's "I accidentally recession. What should I do... is this dangerous?"
- nycmac247, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3oops I just recession
- 1776, on 10/14/2008, -2/+26Thanks for finally acknowledging what we've known for a over a year now. Can we stop shooting ourselves in the foot now?
- brad3378, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3Or about 5 years for those of us from Michigan.
Is it any wonder why I work in another state?
- brad3378, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3Or about 5 years for those of us from Michigan.
- whoreable, on 10/14/2008, -1/+42Where is captain obvious when you need him?
- borez, on 10/15/2008, -0/+5Hey... I'm right here, give me a heads up.
No wait... back to bed. - spankr, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5527/captainobv ...
- aeiou, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2It may seem obvious, but thats not how economics works. According to the definition of a recession, you cannot actually say for sure whether or not you are currently in a recession, only whether or not one occurred within at least 2 (I think) quarters in the past.
- PhilLesh69, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3No, it is 2 or more consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth.
- aeiou, on 10/15/2008, -0/+1Yeah, and why was I wrong? You don't know if you currently have negetive growth, only that you did the past two quarters or earlier.
- borez, on 10/15/2008, -0/+5Hey... I'm right here, give me a heads up.
- psud0, on 10/14/2008, -1/+9He woke up after a looooong loooong dream. :)
- PhilLesh69, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2Sorta like how the guy who just won the nobel prize for economics slept through the phone call to notify him that he won, and when he woke up, he decided to see which asswad had beat him out for the nobel prize, only to find out he won it.
- noupsell, on 10/14/2008, -0/+15FTA "I have been around for a while. I have seen a lot of crises but I have never seen anything quite like this one," Volcker said. "This crisis is an exception. I don't think we can escape damage to the real economy."
- ufia, on 10/15/2008, -3/+7It's true, if you run Crysis you will damage the economy.
- PhilLesh69, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2"... I don't think we can escape damage to the real economy."
So does that mean that so far this has only damaged the virtual economy?
Oh wait, this crisis is centered around dreamed up financial derivatives. I guess technically CDOs and all that other junk bond stuff is virtual. - feignNU, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3It makes you wonder, doesn't it Phil...if all these derivatives were actually "financial fictions", why does it hurt when they implode? I think the answer has something to do the kind of financial/monetary system we have built for ourselves now, including a centralized bank, and a heavy reliance on debt (and debt is, after all, the thread that connects the "virtual" economy of derivatives to the "real" economy), that is, living outside our means.
- PhilLesh69, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2Why is debt owed to you considered an asset?
I've always thought that cash allows me to buy assets. Cash isn't an asset, it just lets you buy assets. If I lend cash out, I have reduced my asset buying potential, in hopes of gaining a little bit more cash in interest upon repayment. I've never considered cash or debt to be an asset. I can't get assets without cash, but my cash also buys my food and my other consumables. If I lend it out, I would never consider an IOU to be an asset, I'd consider it a promise to give me my money back, so I can then buy assets or use it to survive on necessary consumables.
But somehow somebody figured out how to call that potential a real asset.
Greed and Avarice are amazing vices. It seems that in many ways a lot of Americans have come to view them as virtues. Now they are suffering for their folly in buying into the propoganda of those with the most greed and avarice.
- PhilLesh69, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2Why is debt owed to you considered an asset?
- ufia, on 10/15/2008, -3/+7It's true, if you run Crysis you will damage the economy.
- shylove, on 10/14/2008, -4/+15Reaganomics and a non-regulatory fantasy along with an economy that has been running for a long time on speculation and financial manipulations of all kinds while everything else is outsourced so our pollution can be dumped on other countries is bound to rebound on us eventually. This didn't happen overnight, it is a result of the constant repetition of a fallacy that has become an article of faith among many. If we keep buying into it, good luck...
- sloppychris, on 10/15/2008, -1/+2What are you saying, that free markets are a fallacy? If so you'd have the most respected economists in academia from the Chicago and Austrian schools, and the enormously successful economies of the early United States, Singapore, and Hong Kong to answer to.
- nycmac247, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2yes, and they did not get us into this mess, right?
- ajpoker, on 10/15/2008, -1/+5Umm, yeah, this isn't a free market, so fallacy it be...
- aletoledo, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2If only the US was a free market, then we wouldn't be in this mess. Free markets don't get bailed out to the tune of $700 billion.
- feignNU, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3Seriously shylove, don't make the mistake of thinking the fault of this crisis lies in the "free market", and that the only solution to it is heavy government involvement in, even total centralized planning of, the economy. Just remember that these crooks who call themselves conservatives and claim to be for "deregulation" are really for "selective deregulation of those who donate". They want to meddle when it benefits them monetarily or politically. It is this, and our particular brand of a debt-based economy with a centralized bank that got us into this mess, and it's these things we have to undo if we ever want to curtail the severity of these issues.
- aletoledo, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2I find it interesting that you blame the problem on "conservatives". The recent corporate bailout was lead by liberal Democrats. Beyond that point a "neo-conservative" is not a "fiscal conservative". So while you want to make a partisan attack, it's really not apt to point at fiscal conservatives. Your point should be directed against neocons and democrats.
- feignNU, on 10/15/2008, -0/+1Hm...I think perhaps you didn't read my post very carefully, although I'm sure I could have been clearer as well. I'm well aware that the things happening right now are not the fault of one party or the other, but I was specifically responding to shylove's comment about "non-regulatory fantasy". You see, my point was that we should be careful not to believe that the people in the republican party who CALL themselves conservatives (and who, as you point out, are not really fiscally conservative) have actually been instituting properly libertarian, free-market policies.
It's a shame that they claim to be doing this too, because it leads people (like shylove) to believe the free market is actually the real cause of this problem, which makes them eager to accept GREATER government intervention (by both parties, as the bailout very plainly showed us) as a means of fixing things. And it is, of course, government intervention in the free market, a debt-based economy, an unsound monetary system, and a central federal bank that got us here.
So you see, I wasn't making a partisan attack at all. I was saying, don't be duped by the rhetoric coming from the government and go along with a power grab because you've been convinced that it's actually the right solution. - col381, on 10/16/2008, -0/+1The "recent government bailout" was a Republican designed plan that was thrust on congress with a warning "agree to this or the economy crashes" threat along side it. There was no time to debate, no time to do anything but try to make the best out of a very bad sitution that was a result of bad Republican policies. That the Democrats helped vote it in (as the Republicans did also I might add) was simply that they were forced to agree - they didn't like it but there were no other options on the table.
This does not excuse the fact that the all of problems we are seeing today, and the very reason we needed a bailout at all was because of Republican policies. - feignNU, on 10/16/2008, -0/+1That's pretty laughably misinformed col381. Everyone in government, democrat or republican, agreed with the same bad idea that the solution to this crisis is government intrusion into what should be free markets. They might disagree about the specifics about exactly how it should work, but the big evil is already done, and it was supported on both sides of the aisle.
And to then try to say that this whole crisis was caused exclusively by republican policies...wow. Just wow. Independent organizations like factcheck are all saying the same thing: this crisis was caused by a lot of people over a long period of time, going back to the creation of the fed. It's a result of an unsound monetary system, a debt-based economy, predatory lending, and idiots buying ***** they can't afford. Even if an argument could be made that it is republican policy that specifically precipitated this crash, I would counter that this crash is just the most recent symptom of a failed system that goes back almost 100 years.
The problem is that now, as with any other crisis, the government is going to use it as an excuse to "embiggen" itself while we all sit here and argue about who's fault it was.
- sloppychris, on 10/15/2008, -1/+2What are you saying, that free markets are a fallacy? If so you'd have the most respected economists in academia from the Chicago and Austrian schools, and the enormously successful economies of the early United States, Singapore, and Hong Kong to answer to.
- uppitydiggers, on 10/14/2008, -0/+17The sooner it happens, the sooner it's over with.
- makahaboy7, on 10/14/2008, -1/+2Its like a guy in his 30's finally admitting he masturbates. The only thing the Fed is doing is putting a sponge bob band aid over a gaping hole. Its only a matter of time until the blood flows.
- ufia, on 10/15/2008, -0/+11I don't get your point. It bleeds when you masturbate?
- jwoulf, on 10/15/2008, -0/+1Yes, it is full of blood and ants.
- SemiSarcastic, on 10/15/2008, -0/+5"Its only a matter of time until the blood flows" Yeah, when you use ***** SAND PAPER!
- Shipyaad, on 10/15/2008, -1/+2I suppose blood would make a fairly decent lube... at least, until it starts to clot.
- ufia, on 10/15/2008, -0/+11I don't get your point. It bleeds when you masturbate?
- Dereliction, on 10/15/2008, -1/+12Next in the news; Scientist claims "Water is wet," and a national politician admits that, "We lie because we like your money."
- Filipp0, on 10/15/2008, -0/+13ORLY?
- stranglethorne, on 10/15/2008, -2/+8The picture is of gold bars, but the Federal Reserve has no gold reserves.
The IMF holds 66.67% of the world's gold supplies in its vaults.- zippy757, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3...actually 80+% of all gold, believe it or not, ends up in jewelry, with the next largest consumer being electronic boards...down the list it 'stored in vaults'.
According to a story in the Wall Street Journal ( link below ) the US is #1 vault of gold, followed by Germany, and then the IMF.
You should also know that the US is also the largest consumer of the IMF, i.e. we have more gold stored there than anyone else.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/gold-drops-r ...
- zippy757, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3...actually 80+% of all gold, believe it or not, ends up in jewelry, with the next largest consumer being electronic boards...down the list it 'stored in vaults'.
- aud24, on 10/15/2008, -1/+13This just in: A bear ***** in the woods and the Pope is Catholic.
- gchetrick, on 10/15/2008, -0/+4Wow, step one is now complete, we have admitted there is a problem...What's next..
- spankr, on 10/15/2008, -0/+5Admitting you're powerless?
- 1longtime, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2"Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."
I think that correlates to the market handing us our ass.
- 1longtime, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2"Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."
- spankr, on 10/15/2008, -0/+5Admitting you're powerless?
- barstegry, on 10/15/2008, -0/+9In related and equally stunning news, Clay Aiken has admitted he is gay....
- angryfirelord, on 10/15/2008, -1/+2No *****! Damn Volcker, how long is the time lag to your brain?
- Michigan85, on 10/15/2008, -1/+7"Former Fed chief says U.S. now in recession"
I'm from Michigan. So I can't help but respond with a sarcastic "No *****?!" - Wootfaced, on 10/15/2008, -10/+3
- singularityv, on 10/15/2008, -3/+3You are a piece of antisemitic trash.
- koicho, on 10/15/2008, -1/+25“This is worse than divorce. I’ve lost 50% of my net worth and I still have my wife”
- MakanGuru, on 10/15/2008, -1/+5this just in!
"the world is NOT flat!" - borez, on 10/15/2008, -2/+7That's one small step for man, one giant leap for captain ***** obvious.
- SemiSarcastic, on 10/15/2008, -0/+4Paul Volcker: "Yeah, I called it! You guys can thank me later."
- phogasmic, on 10/15/2008, -4/+4wtf? We have been in Recession since Summer 2007.
- zippy757, on 10/15/2008, -1/+3No, the GDP #s didn't show that.
- Hillsfar, on 10/15/2008, -1/+4GDP is faked.
- nycmac247, on 10/15/2008, -1/+3except for that food and fuel stuff (pay no attention...)
- zippy757, on 10/15/2008, -1/+3No, the GDP #s didn't show that.
- Dkrainey, on 10/15/2008, -1/+5They didnt want to say it cause fear is the enemy of the stock market. Now it really does not matter what they say cause the fear is there.
- drmobutu, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2That's how they know it's a recession...
- stradf, on 10/15/2008, -0/+4REALLY WE'RE IN RECESSION???
I guess the DOW plumetting, the house prices crashing, the unemployement rising, the rising prices and confidence index drops weren't enough. We needed an ex-FED chief to say it.
HI GUYS I THINK WE IN RECESSION ROFL
/rofl - prossi10, on 10/15/2008, -3/+8No we're not, the word recession has a clear definition, and we don't fit the criteria. More panic and fear mongering, just what we need. We haven't had at least two straight quarters of negative GNP. Just stop with the buzz words and fear mongering!
- stradf, on 10/15/2008, -0/+5Well, you're actually right, BUT
2008's two first GPD could get revised later this year into negative territory
Also
Real GPD (taking into account inflation) is negative.
MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
/Cast recession- 1longtime, on 10/15/2008, -0/+4You enter a dimly lit room with some fat white guys and a line-graph that clearly points downward. Before you can react, a mage half-orc casts a spell on your party.
You feel your coinpurses lighten. The Fed must successfully make a savings throw or be paralyzed for 10 melee rounds and leave your party with an adjustable monthly mortgage that is 300 gold pieces higher than the value of your horse. - stradf, on 10/15/2008, -0/+1You can Stimulus Plan 1.0. The spell fails. You cast Bailout Level 7. The spell is deflected. You cast "Great firewall of 4,000 billions". The spell is super effective.
- 1longtime, on 10/15/2008, -0/+4You enter a dimly lit room with some fat white guys and a line-graph that clearly points downward. Before you can react, a mage half-orc casts a spell on your party.
- Dweller99, on 10/15/2008, -0/+7fine. We wont call it a recession, since it does not meet the textbook definition. How about we call it *****. Is that a better word to describe it?
"Former Fed chief says US is now *****."
Yep, seems to work just fine. - KOSmurfy, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3There are multiple definitions of recession actually, and the NBER doesn't use yours. We tend to stick with one to be consistent, but conceptually, recessions are not as well-defined as you make it sound.
Also, notice that it's the *former* Fed chief saying this. He's saying we're in a recession based on his expertise and the current circumstances. It won't be official until that data is finalized later this year or next, but that doesn't mean we're not in a recession. Only time will tell, and in the mean time, expert *opinion* can give us some idea as to where we are.
- stradf, on 10/15/2008, -0/+5Well, you're actually right, BUT
- ewagnerjr2000, on 10/15/2008, -3/+2http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession
some good information.
Recession is marked when there are 2 consecutive quarters of no growth. Don't think we have seen that yet. Not like it hasn't happened in the past.- derek20la, on 10/15/2008, -0/+4yeah but when the gov't does an enron to the books, they can make the numbers say whatever they want
visit http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data
if inflation now was calculated by the same standards as 1980, its currently over 13% - KOSmurfy, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2Read the next part:
"This measure fails to register several official (NBER defined) US recessions" - jwoulf, on 10/15/2008, -0/+1Any economy dependent on growth is unsustainable and WILL fail eventually.
- derek20la, on 10/15/2008, -0/+4yeah but when the gov't does an enron to the books, they can make the numbers say whatever they want
- mrgeekguy, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3Thank god it's only mental!
- TheWriteGuy, on 10/15/2008, -0/+9We've been in recession for years now. The "growth" numbers have been contrived through bad loans, ballooning credit, and manipulating unemployment numbers (throwing out people who have been unemployed for more than 6 months, and those who are continually under-employed/working part time but seeking full time).
Yes, technically, a recession is defined as no growth across two quarters. But if you can fudge the numbers to make things appear better than they really are, then you could pretty much make it look like you're never in a recession.- shredswithpiks, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2technically haven't things been shrinking since january?
- fuzzlog, on 10/15/2008, -1/+3pffff we've been knowing that already for 2 years now.
- SirLoinChop, on 10/15/2008, -3/+2i am pretty sure there is a good reason he is a FORMER chief of the Fed. It is this type of misrepresentation due to an inability to accurately interpret economic factors that got him canned in the first place. Why not ask Bob Dole what is the best way to get elected President?
- Hillsfar, on 10/15/2008, -0/+4You know nothing about history. Volcker served during a time of severe stagflation and high oil prices. He brought double-digit inflation down by repeatedly RAISING interest rates even though it hurt.
- cool1blues, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2Wow, seriously, just...wow
- TheMachine1, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3We were in a recession in the summer when gasoline demand dropped when oil hit $140. Gasoline demand usually raises in the summer and its demand from year to year is fairly "inelastic".
- zippy757, on 10/15/2008, -1/+2A recession is typically when (GDP) growth is negative for two or more consecutive quarters. While times are tough, this has not been the case until this quarter.
Many people were unaware that the US went into a recession post 9/11.
Hopefully this it will be a mild one. In some ways, recessions are good as they help force out into the open fundamental issues that need to be addressed.- jwoulf, on 10/15/2008, -0/+1That's the problem with out economy, it is dependent on growth, and that simply cannot be sustained.
- stagnate, on 10/15/2008, -1/+2Get over it, Its just the medias newest thing for us to be afraid of, give it 6 months and it will be something else. Look back through news at the things people were terrified of that now noone cares about, aids, sars, osama bin laden, bird flu, oil prices, global warming.... turn of your tv for a min and you will see there is nothing to worry about :)
- drmobutu, on 10/15/2008, -1/+4It started in January, of 2001, as far as I'm concerned...
- my10cent, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2It's Ze end of Ze World
- Anth0n, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3The only reason no one wants to admit we're in a recession is because they want us to keep spending.
- syumbul, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3What is a recession?
- j0se, on 10/15/2008, -1/+2A new album that Young Jeezy just released.
- JulyZerg, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2I wonder how much he got payed for that...
- senatorpjt, on 10/15/2008, -0/+5Volcker was the last decent Fed chairman we had. While people say "no *****" about this, he's not making a prediction, he's just stating a fact. A "recession" to an economist isn't just "a ***** economy" it has a specific definition. Of course, it's not really newsworthy that Volcker can see the obvious, but I'd rather hear more about what he has to say, since he's the last Fed chairman who was actually able to deal with an economic crisis and pull the economy out of it.
People liked Greenspan because he fed a boom, but Volcker took a bust and turned it around, which is worth a lot more respect in my opinion. Of course nobody here remembers the 70's, but Volcker turned the 70's into the 80's. Appointed by (surprise) Carter who everyone blamed for a ***** economy. Makes Carter basically responsible for the growth of the 80's. Reagan, who got all the credit, appointed that idiot Greenspan who completely destroyed the economy with the equivalent of a monetary crack binge. - scottnow, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2What gave it away?? Massive job loss, crashing markets, record bankruptcies, record foreclosures... or, was it announced on CNN?
- goon5000, on 10/15/2008, -0/+1Where was the Dow when the Dems took over?
- pjr12345, on 10/15/2008, -1/+2Oh, well, Volcker said it so it must be so.
Not sure about your plans, but I don't think I'm going to participate in this so-called recession. - tomjeff09, on 10/15/2008, -1/+3If you've got a spare AR lower, here is the upper: http://www.safetyharborfirearms.com/UltraMag_50/ul ...
It's got about a 6 week lag time but she'll punch through anything and everything the PTB throw your way. Most people that hear it go off have to wipe themselves. Get a supply of 650+ grain ammo (cough up the dough and get the 750 grain!) and you'll have yourself a nice little surprise for the stormtroopers who stop by for a visit. With a 5 round mag, you can take out the cars, buses, trains or whatever else they ride up in!
Go with the 22" unless you have the space to really let the 29" do it's thing. Either way, you're good to 1500 meters and there isn't body armor on the planet that will stop it.
They started it, let's finish it! - sivartrenrag, on 10/15/2008, -1/+3Recession = 2 consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth. We haven't had that yet, but we will.
- ErickStevenson, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2Really? Surprise to me! I didn't see it coming!
- jinsundo, on 10/15/2008, -0/+2"Former Fed chief says U.S. now in recession" = well Duhh!!
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