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Here's an example of american healthcare
cnn.com — A surveillance shows a woman dying on the floor of a emergency room while people nearby ignore her.
insaincain02- 1346 diggs
- digg it
- yellowcakewalk, on 07/01/2008, -29/+129My fianceé, an American resident for fifteen years, grew up and was educated in the Soviet Union. While she has nothing but scorn for the old soviet system, she says the American system of health rationing is a constant source of surprise and horror to her and her colleagues from the former Soviet states.
- yellowcakewalk, on 07/01/2008, -12/+38I have "good" health insurance. In spite of that, I waited in the emergency room with a broken shoulder and multiple lacerations from a bike accident for 14 hours. That was Howard University Hospital here in Washington DC.
- blackinthmiddle, on 07/01/2008, -4/+32Unfortunately, emergency rooms look at people in one of two categories: people who are about to die and everybody else. If you're not on the first list, you're not a "real emergency" as far as the hospital is concerned.
My builder was doing work on my neighbor's house a few years back (the day we had the blackout in the northeast in august) and essentially cut off two of his fingers from his right hand. He's right-handed. He goes to Northern Westchester hospital (New York) and they tell him to wait, while he's bleeding. They then give him gauze and *ask him to sign in*! The doctor was running around and told him although he'll take care of him, he's not an emergency as far as he's concerned.
So he gives him a local anesthetic and says he'll come back in 5 minutes when it starts to kick in. 30 minutes later (and the anesthetic almost worn off), he comes back. He offers to give him another shot, but my builder just told him to stitch him up. He said he felt every stitch! - mehan, on 07/01/2008, -4/+6"Howard University Hospital"
..that's your problem right there. - moracity, on 07/01/2008, -36/+7Sorry, but you are an idiot for sitting around for 14 hours in an ER. That's YOUR problem, not the hospital. If you have a family doctor (if not, get one - they usually have emergency hours), you should have gone there or to an urgent care facility. They have them everywhere nowadays.
People need to quit using the emergency room so damn much. - SkippyDoorknob, on 07/01/2008, -2/+22Cutting off two fingers is not an emergency?!? It's not like he had a case of the sniffles.
- bejayel, on 07/01/2008, -7/+42maybe you should come to Canada then. Our wait lines are so long. Here is an example: My dad broke his leg skating, and twisted it all the way around. We drove to the hospital and he was in an emergency room in 5 MINUTES. Your wait time down there in the states pales in comparison to the 5 MINUTES we had to wait. Man i wish lines in Canadian health care werent so long
/sarcasm - skipdog172, on 07/01/2008, -7/+29I'm sorry but I work in a hospital. You seem to think that because you have "good" insurance that other people in need of EMERGENCY medical care should be pushed to the side while you go to the front of the line. Or you think that "good" insurance means that hospitals can't be busy? I just can't understand your logic.
I don't understand how "ER wait times" can be prevented. Don't you realize that the only way this is possible is to completely overstaff the hospital and increase health care costs even more?
What kind of solution do you propose?
You were at an ER that happened to be busy. No magical system can prevent this. The ignorance of digg is really showing today with some of these comments being dugg so far up... - keymanjim2, on 07/01/2008, -8/+9bejayel, you've given us an idea. Let's ship the 12,000,000 illegals that clog our emergency rooms using them as primary care facilities up to canada.
- RetroMetro, on 07/01/2008, -3/+4here's a lil tip: if you don't want to wait in the ER, call an ambulance. it's not free, but you don't sit in the ER all day in pain either
- SkippyDoorknob, on 07/02/2008, -0/+6An ambulance is just an expensive ride to the emergency room. It doesn't guarantee you go to the front of the line.
- SmokedL, on 07/02/2008, -2/+4"I don't understand how "ER wait times" can be prevented. Don't you realize that the only way this is possible is to completely overstaff the hospital and increase health care costs even more?"
Having enough people to do the job without people dying in the waiting room and doctors working 24 hour shifts is to "completely overstaff"? If that's your definition than yes indeed. You _should_ "completely overstaff". I should be criminal negligence to not "completely overstaff".
Do you really work at a hospital and think this way?
Waiting 14 hours is OK?
Dying on the waiting room floor is OK?
I live in one of those "communist" countries that have universal health care (Almost all first world countries except the US in fact.). 14 hours wait time would be front page news here and cause a huge public outcry. It would be considered absolutely unacceptable. And we spend far far less per capita on health care. - toshibu, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1"You seem to think that because you have "good" insurance that other people in need of EMERGENCY medical care should be pushed to the side while you go to the front of the line."
You seem to have misunderstood capitalism. Welcome to America!
- blackinthmiddle, on 07/01/2008, -4/+32Unfortunately, emergency rooms look at people in one of two categories: people who are about to die and everybody else. If you're not on the first list, you're not a "real emergency" as far as the hospital is concerned.
- inboxnews, on 07/01/2008, -63/+14Why am I not surprised your fianceé grew up in the socialist Soviet Union?
>"American system of health rationing"
Sounds to me like more 'hate America'...- yellowcakewalk, on 07/01/2008, -6/+28Did you read my comment? She has nothing but disdain for the old soviet system.
- sadisticmind, on 07/01/2008, -5/+19Sounds to me LIke inboxnews doesn't know how to read.
- lajaw, on 07/02/2008, -2/+4And you are enamored by them.
- Hangly, on 07/02/2008, -1/+3How is it that people like you still exist?
- CryRightardCry, on 07/02/2008, -1/+1Why am I not surprised you are an ignorant *****?
Sounds to me more like "***** rightard shill desperate to avoid the real subject, namely health care, because he's a rightard loser who still insists that warmongering is better for America than healthy citizens".
Why haven't you enlisted, you cowardly piece of *****?
Daily you clamor for war, yet you are such a ***** you are still hiding at home.
Yeah, big respect to you for that.
What? Not going to address the video? Can't find some right wing asshat talking point about how it's BETTER for her to die without care so right wing losers don't have to wait for care?
- moracity, on 07/01/2008, -22/+18The U.S doesn't have health rationing...except for those on welfare who are confined to county (government) hospitals like this.
County hospitals are good for gunshots...that's about it.
The rest of us work our asses of to buy health insurance - even if it means sacrificing things we might otherwise want. It sucks, but until the government quits interfering creating all these stupid mandates, the insurance system will only get worse. We need a la carte health insurance plans. For example, my wife and I aren't having more children, so we shouldn't have to pay for maternity and fertility treatment coverage.- Jpardue, on 07/01/2008, -7/+14Why should we have to pay for any insurance then? I have payed my health insurance premiums for 6 years now and have not gone to the doctor once... shouldn't i be entitled to a refund?
- alexforcefive, on 07/01/2008, -11/+13I am utterly amazed that there are people who could read this story and NOT come to the conclusion that their country needs a real national health service.
- kurtu5, on 07/01/2008, -9/+8Yeah because once the government is running it, you will not be able to sue them for malpractice. You can't sue the national government for anything.
- gernblansted, on 07/01/2008, -5/+18My wife used to work for a health insurance company. Her job was calling people and telling them the procedures they need won't be covered by the insurance company. She was forced to tell people there children would die because even though a procedure existed that could save their lives, the insurance company wouldn't cover it. It's the worst job she ever had.
When you say something like "The U.S. doesn't have health rationing.." you show yourself to be a shill for the multi-multi billion dollar insurance industry or ignorant of the 20 ton gorilla in front of your face.
BTW - Just because you work your ass off to make insurance executives filthy rich doesn't mean for a second you'll get the coverage you need. There are many many people who are dead now only for reasons of profit, and many of them say the same thing you would when you get denied - "But.. But..." - filmbandit, on 07/01/2008, -2/+11and some of us work our asses off and are still denied health care because we have pre-existing conditions. here in texas we have a state-run health risk pool for people like me that have been denied. a health insurance policy with them costs $700/month.
- Y0tsuya, on 07/01/2008, -5/+6@Jpardue
You seem to have trouble understanding how insurance is supposed to work. Just because you paid auto premium to Geico for 10 years and never filed a claim, doesn't mean you get your premium back. - kuzotz, on 07/03/2008, -1/+1since he has no concept on how insurance works. And you do. Look at your statement. Is it very smart to accept this health insurance system? My god everyone gets sick that's life, but why the hell should someone lose their life because they can't get insurance?
- LukasSmith, on 07/01/2008, -25/+4Sorry but that video wasn't very convincing. Some lady fell over and died? how the hell do we know? Not saying it didn't happen but questioning whether it did. Where is the skepticism? oh wait there is none because this video just reinforces preconceived notions. Hell I could make a video just as convincing as this one, and I don't even need someone to die. My skepticism lives. Where's yours?
- danomagnum, on 07/01/2008, -1/+4Skepticism would be to ask why she died, not question whether it was made up. Speaking of which, why did she die?
- LukasSmith, on 07/02/2008, -2/+2If she didn't die then who faked it?
- thebza451, on 07/01/2008, -11/+6in soviet russia care healths for yo.. nvmnd
- filmbandit, on 07/01/2008, -2/+17the observation about Soviet medicine is interesting -- for the last few months i've been making some armchair-league comparisons about the U.S. to the Soviet Union of my 70s and 80s childhood. Back then, the U.S. news reported regularly about Soviet Union's dysfunction -- affecting every area of Russian life. Infrastructure was crumbling, there was no adequate health care, no considerations for privacy or human rights, corruption and cronyism ruled, there were no effective government protection agencies etc. On some levels these failures feel familiar here today in the U.S. to what was reported to us about life in the Soviet Union before the wall came down. i've been looking for the book someone has written about these comparisons but haven't found it yet. if you know of one let me know.
- catbeller, on 07/01/2008, -6/+9I assert that the Soviet Union went bankrupt because the capitalists of the west declared war against it, demonized it, and drove it into destitution. The evil that the Soviets did live on in Putin and the former KBG/crime lords/new owners; nothing has changed but that a few are now rich. The evil that they did was inherent in the Russian culture, not in communism, which frankly never existed anyway - the USSR was a fascism. I wonder how things might have turned out had they just been left alone? Ditto Cuba. Let the experiment happen -- or was America terrified that they might succeed? Certainly the major capitalists were wetting themselves that the populace would rise up and dispossess them. They were consumed by that fear since the 18th century.
- EarlOfLade, on 07/01/2008, -5/+10Well, I had the good fortune of visiting the old communist USSR and several other east bloc countries during the communist era and yes, it was really primitive compared to us in the west and they were lacking almost everything, but still, they took care of peoples health as it is a vital component in any country's success.
You can not compare USA to USSR, but in many ways, the US society is on par with most third world countries when it comes to caring for your citizens. You lack every form of social security nets that other first world countries have. You put mental patients in normal prisons and treat them as if nothing was wrong leading to even more issues.
Currently I';m seeing the US as borderline third world country, it's only it's military and economy that keeps it borderline.
- BBWolf, on 07/01/2008, -6/+5While there is no 'rationing' of health care here now unless you are totally reliant upon Medicaid or Medicare. With Nationalized health care rationing is inevitable. We may need to go that way to slow the spiraling health care costs, but when we do, care will suffer. We have the best, most technically advanced care in the world for those that can afford it (an it IS expensive) but to avoid bankrupting the system limits will have to be placed upon care.
Resources are always limited...Wants are not. - SpookyPig, on 07/01/2008, -5/+7Shameless comment jack:
I'm not going to digg this up because it doesn't actually involve the healthcare system, but it does show how a lot of people just don't care about others. In situations like this people will just ignore you, and only worry about their own good. Which is a metaphor for the healthcare system, and people only helping others when it's cost effective for them. - GodelEscherBach, on 07/01/2008, -2/+415 years in residency? What kind of residency is she doing? Even a surgery residency is only 7 years. In 15 years, you could do a surgery residency, followed by cardiology, oncology, etc, fellowships. Most FMGs just do primary care in the US. . .
- DarthTater, on 07/02/2008, -0/+2yellowcake mentioned her fianceé was a resident (not tha se was doing a residency). It means she lives legally in the country but is not an american citizen.
- CyphreDias, on 07/02/2008, -8/+8PROBLEM:
"Health-care sucks" - Is this problem natural or man-made?
REACTION:
"The People cry..."We need health-care re-formed!""
SOLUTION:
"Socialized health care gives the government domain over your health care" - The power elites smile and laugh! "Our plan worked. Our power and wealth will be greater than ever!"
Perhaps we should look at other options to improve health care other than the only option being presented on a silver platter and placed at our feet in a time of need. People who trust the government, don't know enough about history and government.- Lewie, on 07/02/2008, -3/+8But corporations, who are only interested in profit, are better equipped to take care of our health needs?
- djm19, on 07/02/2008, -1/+1The power elites are already laughing their way to the bank. I fail to see what solace they find in universal healthcare that they dont get 10 fold in their current system.
- CyphreDias, on 07/03/2008, -1/+1I didn’t use the word "corporation" in my text.
However, corporations are very dangerous. Legally, they have been made equal to a person, which has the effect of forcing normal people to compete against a superhuman, logical entity. A corporation is the equivalent to a superhuman who never dies; never sleeps; can exist in more than one place at a time; Never gets sad or feels remorse; and is capable of processing endless bureaucratic paperwork that no individual could ever hope to match. The law needs to be changed so no corporation will exist... only private companies. I agree that corporations are evil, but historically speaking, governments are more evil than corporations. We need to prevent government from taking-over our healthcare and then we need to rally the people to pressure our government to make corporations the legal servant of humanity rather than its super-human competitor. - CyphreDias, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1Thank you for your interest in my comment. I hope you have a long, happy life.
If government controls health care, next they will say that people are required to have mandatory vaccinations and mental health screens. This is already being discussed. All this will go in your file regardless of whether or not it is true. You may be declared mentally unfit based on arbitrary and bureaucratic standards that will put you in a persecuted class of citizens. The diagnosis might be politically driven, sloppy or inaccurate, but you can’t fight city hall.
Many countries already mandate 50+ childhood vaccinations. The medical industry is already in bed with government, socialized health care just takes it to the next level. Your tax dollars pay for your own enslavement and demise. It's not a question of whether evil will come to power, but WHEN. Some argue our current government is evil. Evil seeks power.
Today, most vaccinations contain controversial substances that don’t need to be their. Our municipal water contains fluoride which is very difficult to remove. We are being mass medicated against our will. Even IF fluoride IS safe, this is a bad precedent. The fact that fluoride is so difficult to remove from the water is unforgivable. Filtering does not remove fluoride. The history of fluoridating water is frightening. Stalin used it to make prisoners more calm.
People who trust government, need to read more history. Keep in mind that the history you read in school is not real history. The devil is in the details and language used matters greatly.
- mike17032, on 07/02/2008, -5/+7So putting it under government control is going to somehow make it better...
Everyone already gets service at an ER, insurance or not. This is a perfect example of what will happen if you expand the "free service to everyone" to the rest of the system.- toshibu, on 07/02/2008, -1/+2"Hey don't bring those poor people in here! They're dirty and I'll have to wait longer now. No way, let em die..."
- CyphreDias, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1Toshibu... The lifeboat of America can not capacitate the entire world. I am a legal citizen, but if I need a heart transplant and have no way to pay for it, then I'm going to die. That is one of the harsh realities of life. The United States health care system can not be asked to provide free care to any sick person who can fly, crawl, walk or swim to an American Hospital. If injuries are life-threatening, then they need to be stabilized and then transported to a COUNTRY-OF-ORIGIN hospital or a COUNTRY-OF-ORIGIN police department. If you were at home and a sick person showed-up at your door, are you obligated to provide free health care in your house? What if 10 sick people show up at your house, are you obligated to care for and pay for all 10 sick people at your own expense. It’s easy to be idealistic when you believe it will be others who need to do the work and pay the bills. I wonder what percentage of your personal income you have donated to charity. I'll bet it is not much. I suspect you are a generous guy and a big spender as long as it is someone else's money.
- kuzotz, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1WEll if a sick person showed up at my doorstep I would be obligated to help because that is in fact another human being. Hell my great grandmother use to help people in this manner, and it's the only reason why her house was nevr broken into because she was well known in the community for lending a helping hand, and generally not being a selfish *****. Of course you are an american who forgot what the meaning of community was, and that yes the concept itself is very socialistic, but it exist for a good reason. To make life easier for everyone, and that's our main focus. First we the people should take control of our government then implement a national healthcare system because trust me the whole ***** concept of democracy is in line with socialism.
- exdemformccain, on 09/23/2008, -0/+0I am from a former Eastern European country and I can attest that the quality of care is much better here. We only see these sensational reports from the US but not from anywhere else. I personally witnessed (while working as an ambulance paramedic) poor people robbed by other paramedics, a drunk and incapacitated poor fellow being beaten (until his face was bloody) by a hospital male nurse because he cursed at the hospital, a mentally ill patient being beaten until unconscious etc. Doctors in my country accept cash tips, and if the patient does not give a tip, he is then scared to be treated inferiorly, so the poor old lady will give her last few bucks because she is scared. THis is the universal healthcare of Eastern Europe. I was glad to change to a more civilized (though imperfect) US healthcare system. YOu do not see this in Michael Moore's sicko, only the kissing couples in a Paris park as illustration of how great all is in Europe.
- yellowcakewalk, on 07/01/2008, -12/+38I have "good" health insurance. In spite of that, I waited in the emergency room with a broken shoulder and multiple lacerations from a bike accident for 14 hours. That was Howard University Hospital here in Washington DC.
- Minarchian, on 07/01/2008, -40/+122Now how is that an example of health care?
Somebody should have recognized that something was wrong with her, but you need to blame that on everyone that didn't care to pay attention. Not the dang healthcare system.- yellowcakewalk, on 07/01/2008, -21/+17She's in the emergency room, fool, not on the street.
- Minarchian, on 07/01/2008, -9/+32She was in a psychiatric emergency room.
Obviously you've never seen what strange things are happening in psych hospitals.
I used to visit a friend of mine worked in one...some really strange ***** happens there, including people groveling on the floors, fool. - moracity, on 07/01/2008, -12/+8With people all around her, fool.
- chispito, on 07/01/2008, -1/+22Yes but that has nothing to do with the healthcare system, it has everything to do with that particular emergency room and its staff.
Explain what egregious errors of the system caused that problem. - paperclipsNsoup, on 07/01/2008, -4/+3All county hospitals are bad in the US, I had a bad stomach ulcer when I didn't have insurance, I spent 18 hours waiting to be seen at Olive view in Sylmar, CA. About half the time throwing up bloody water (that's all I had to drink)
- whorunbartertwn, on 07/01/2008, -2/+2Your career as a statistician has great promise, given your ability to take a sample size of one visit in Sylmar CA and project your analysis to the conclusion that "All county hospitals are bad in the US."
- Minarchian, on 07/01/2008, -9/+32She was in a psychiatric emergency room.
- ssn697, on 07/01/2008, -12/+14You didn't read the story AGAIN, did you Minarchian? Is it a rule with you not to actually read any of the stories, rather just comment?
- skipdog172, on 07/01/2008, -6/+7So...a single payer system would've meant that the people around her would magically see her and help her out?
You aren't making any sense. - Minarchian, on 07/01/2008, -12/+5Typical of a Socialist, ssn697 sees spooks where there are none.
Go back to reading your Commie Manifesto. - Herkimer56, on 07/01/2008, -4/+7You do have a bad habit of commenting on stories you haven't read and on subjects of which you are entirely ignorant. Attacking ssn697 isn't going to help you with those issues.
- Minarchian, on 07/01/2008, -8/+2I'm on to you guys.
You go out of your way to get people so pissed they say something that you loons will cry to digg about in order for them to get banned.
How many bans do you have under your belt Herkim?
http://digg.com/odd_stuff/Troll_Stalker_HumanCattl ... - Herkimer56, on 07/01/2008, -3/+10I've never been banned. How about you?
You do have a habit of not reading the articles you comment on. You frequently have no idea what you're talking about and you never research before you post. Remember this? http://digg.com/politics/House_waves_off_impeachme ...
You didn't get pissed there. You just ran away and hid. As I recall it was a couple of days before you posted again and then you'd vanish if someone asked you about it. Embarrassed much? You didn't even bother to find out how your Messiah voted before condemning everyone who voted "Aye" on the bill so if anyone needs evidence that you're clueless they can find it right there.
Frankly, I don't care if you have an account or not. However, that doesn't mean that you won't see me from time to time pointing out your stupidity. If you don't like it then go back to the forums at prisonplanet, or whatever sewer you crawled out of, where you'll feel more at home. You're just not that important to anyone here. - Minarchian, on 07/01/2008, -6/+2First of all, your comment hijacking again. Nothing unusual there.
Secondly, I've told you a hundred times I don't agree with Paul on some things. But you want to ignore that and keep traipsing around garbage. Always looking for ways to derail conversations and threads at digg. Why I come and go at here is none of your business. - Herkimer56, on 07/01/2008, -3/+9So now you think that you can decide who can comment on your ignorance and who can't? How does that work? If you post something that is obviously false, which includes the vast majority of your postings, I have the right as member in good standing of the Digg Community to make a comment. That's not comment hijacking, that's just pointing out your lack of knowledge.
And you didn't bother to answer my question. I've never had my account banned. Have you? - Minarchian, on 07/01/2008, -5/+2Why would I be banned?
Am I next on your list?
Oh, that's right. You're still under the delusion I am someone else who did get banned.
Was he banned because of you too? - onetimer, on 07/02/2008, -1/+8Minarchian used to be Xuvious until he was indeed banned.
If you're curious about the list... it's 43 as of now. - ssn697, on 07/02/2008, -2/+7Minarchian,
My point was that the hospital has a track record of horrible treatment, not just this case. If you had read the story, you would know that. Saying firing the people who ignored her missed the overall point of the article. That the mental hospital in question is a complete ***** up.
IF you had read the story, you would know that. Hence my comment. But go on with your bad self! It is amusing!
Oh, and nice job with the "you guys" crap. Always the martyr... - Herkimer56, on 07/02/2008, -2/+7Well, Minarchian, I figured that you would either run away again or lie your ass off. Instead, you just dodged the question. That's okay though, I never expect an honest answer from someone like you.
- trogdoor, on 07/02/2008, -1/+5"Secondly, I've told you a hundred times I don't agree with Paul on some things"
So you would agree that, as you said of everyone who voted aye, Ron Paul is "spineless in the defense of the Constitution" ?
- skipdog172, on 07/01/2008, -6/+7So...a single payer system would've meant that the people around her would magically see her and help her out?
- beamz, on 07/01/2008, -4/+9Yeah, cuz corporate america cares that much more about a person's well being than their bottom line. The difference is that congress and state government control what that place gets and the hospital doesn't. A private hospital has control over how it spends money and most of the time they aren't inner-city hospitals in ***** neighborhoods.
- fatjoe, on 07/01/2008, -12/+5"you need to blame that on everyone that didn't care to pay attention. "
well mate i guess thats the irony of it all. Cause they only CARE about your HEALTH, if you PAY- ssn697, on 07/02/2008, -2/+4LOL
Most of America doesn't want to hear that, no matter how true it is. That is why you are getting Dugg down.
I have said many times: You can judge a country by how it treats its sick, poor and elderly. We treat all three like *****.
- ssn697, on 07/02/2008, -2/+4LOL
- bejayel, on 07/01/2008, -5/+8If anything my trips to the states has tought me, it is this: You guys cant STAND lines. They didnt see the woman dieing as an emergancy. They just got bumped up in line mother *****!
- whorunbartertwn, on 07/01/2008, -0/+1Americans can't stand in lines? Go to South Asia, where a queue is always shaped like a bell curve around point of entry.
- WileEPeyote, on 07/02/2008, -0/+3The important piece of it to me that points to it being a problem with the healthcare system is this:
"Esmin Green, 49, had been waiting in the emergency room for nearly 24 hours..."
I have been to the emergency room lately and while we didn't spend 24 hours waiting, we did wait for several hours to see a triage nurse, then at least another hour waiting for an exam room, followed by another 2 hours in the exam room waiting to see a doctor, then another 6 hours waiting to be released...
The staff was a little surly. I can only imagine it was because there were way too few of them to handle the volume of people. My second experience at that emergency room was only slightly better.
This was a good hospital (comparitevely) in a good neighborhood.
- yellowcakewalk, on 07/01/2008, -21/+17She's in the emergency room, fool, not on the street.
- yellowcakewalk, on 07/01/2008, -25/+10So, @minarchian your point is that things are just ducky with the health system here in the USA.
- ledguitar, on 07/01/2008, -4/+11ducky? Really? That's the best word you could think of to fit in there?
- masterm1nd, on 07/01/2008, -2/+6I like how you guys think change is automatically for the better, even when it obviously would just ***** ***** up even more.
- Artimusbill, on 07/01/2008, -1/+8All these morons clamoring for nationalized health care amaze me. Name one thing the US government does correctly. All national health care would do is make a more wasteful system that serves it's purpose less well than our current system. Dragging everyone down to the bottom, with the lowest possible level of care is not an equality I wish to see.
- chispito, on 07/01/2008, -2/+8No his point was that it was an extreme example that says nothing about the system as a whole.
- AugustZephyr, on 07/01/2008, -6/+119Case study for the phrase: "Not my job"
- KingVegas702, on 07/01/2008, -2/+8plz tell me if this is the same thing....Last weekend i was on the military bace here in las vegas. I went to the pool and was standing next to were the diving boards are...a kid about....5years old jumps off the diving board that was in front of me...he comes up for air....and starts to panic?!?! I look directly for the life guard who is about 6 feet away...(weird part) the life guard looks back at me...and sits there for about another 3 seconds befor jumping in!!!!!!.......
was that my fault diggers? i dont know CPR....and what if something happend when i was pulling the boy outta the water....then i get sued?- bejayel, on 07/01/2008, -1/+2You cant be sued once they fall unconcious as this woman did. If they are no longer in a state of mind which they can intelligently do somehting for themselves, they automatically lose the right to sue.
- ZenMojo, on 07/01/2008, -0/+5I believe lifeguard training says that you have to make sure a child is showing signs that he is a bad swimmer before you do anything. A friend of mine was studying lifeguard training and that's the only thing I remember from it.
- jmkiii, on 07/01/2008, -0/+3You can't be sued unless you are a medical professional (maybe just a doctor). It is called the "Good Samaritan Law."
Unfortunately this means that a doctor can't really do anything but watch and direct. - danomagnum, on 07/01/2008, -1/+1You can't win either way, so you might as well do the right thing and hope for the best.
- KingVegas702, on 07/01/2008, -2/+8plz tell me if this is the same thing....Last weekend i was on the military bace here in las vegas. I went to the pool and was standing next to were the diving boards are...a kid about....5years old jumps off the diving board that was in front of me...he comes up for air....and starts to panic?!?! I look directly for the life guard who is about 6 feet away...(weird part) the life guard looks back at me...and sits there for about another 3 seconds befor jumping in!!!!!!.......
- inboxnews, on 07/01/2008, -17/+124This is a CITY RUN mental health facility. Read GOVERNMENT RUN.
fta: "The agency that runs the municipal hospital -- the city's Health and Hospitals Corp. -- fired several staffers as a result."
http://www.nyc.gov/html/hhc/html/home/home.shtml- pilot3033, on 07/01/2008, -15/+33yes, and underfunded one it seems
thus the problem.- PabloMac, on 07/01/2008, -4/+7If that's the case, the government should throw more money at the problem.
Problem solved. Next story... - commenter01, on 07/01/2008, -2/+9"throw more money at the problem"...
Not surprising, coming from a mac user. - esfisher, on 07/01/2008, -2/+6Right, because everyone was sitting around saying "I don't have enough money to help this lady!"
- PabloMac, on 07/01/2008, -4/+7If that's the case, the government should throw more money at the problem.
- blorc, on 07/01/2008, -7/+19Wow, the original poster got rocked. Guess the snarky title doesn't work so well now.
- lwoodnj, on 07/01/2008, -11/+19No, he's pretty much dead on. The reality is that government funded or privately funded have the same problems, and Government Run will only result in further disaster and neglect.
- Kronos6948, on 07/01/2008, -5/+16Exactly. You only need to see how any other government run business works. Take a trip to the DMV, and imagine those people as your surgeons.
- SammyJr, on 07/01/2008, -3/+6@Kronos6948
I don't know about that. The people at the DMVs I've dealt with are the most anal people I have ever met. Every procedure is followed to the letter. They don't cut corners. Sounds like the kind of people I'd want working in health care. - Y0tsuya, on 07/01/2008, -2/+6(After filling out forms and waiting in line for 1/2 hour)
Hello sir, may I see your forms? You're here to reattach your severed index finger? This is the line for bullet wounds. You need to go downstairs and head to window 2A. Next! - SpeedSteamBoat, on 07/01/2008, -6/+3I believe the solution lies in consistency and standardization. That is something only possible under a socialized system.
- WileEPeyote, on 07/02/2008, -3/+51. Healthcare and Profit do not mix.
2. I've been in multiple government run (not government funded) health care facilities courtesy of my enlistment in the military. They were quick and efficient though not as customer service oriented.
3. I have private health insurance now and go to a private practice clinic. The wait is always long and the doctors are handling so many patients they barely have time to do a decent diagnosis. On average I spend an hour waiting to talk to a doctor for 20 minutes...
- pilot3033, on 07/01/2008, -15/+33yes, and underfunded one it seems
- SuperKewlGirl, on 07/01/2008, -34/+57Honestly it dosen't suprise me - our health care systems sucks
- inboxnews, on 07/01/2008, -28/+24Our health care system is one of the best in the world which explains why people from all over the world, including residents of Canada and the U.K., come here for care. The mental hospital where this incident occurred is run by the city of New York and in no way represents the American health care system.
- yellowcakewalk, on 07/01/2008, -8/+23That's *****. You clearly have never been outside the USA. I lived in Brazil for years, and there was always a neighborhood health clinic you could just drop into for free.
- 8m4ck, on 07/01/2008, -15/+22I nearly died of food poisoning in Bangalore because the health care SUCKED. After making a 22 hour flight back, I recovered four days later in a U.S. hospital.
The U.S. has some of the BEST health care in the world. The reason it's expensive is due to government intervention and regulation. - Jlaugh, on 07/01/2008, -5/+16Yet all other first world countries have cheaper more effective state run healthcare. It's not government that's the problem it's the fact that we have for profit healthcare, with multiple bureaucracies.
- Jpardue, on 07/01/2008, -2/+26The health care in the US is good, but the COST of health care in the US is ***** LUDICROUS!!
- lwoodnj, on 07/01/2008, -8/+5"Cheaper, more effective"
The problem there is the contradiction in terms. Cheaper...maybe, sort of, kind of, depends on how you look at it. As for effective, DEFINITELY not. I know for a fact that England has a health care system that is backed up for almost a minimum of six months. If you don't appear to desperately need help, you don't get it. And, if you REALLY do, you're going to wait for it. This would have happened anywhere.
Don't go giving more responsibilities to the government. They are not good at running things, they are ONLY good at making money. The government is not the answer. - rz8472, on 07/01/2008, -1/+4False dichotomy. Elective surgery is backed up... something that I would gladly have in exchange for the ridiculous % GDP and 10% inflation per year we have in our current system.
- SammyJr, on 07/01/2008, -1/+7LOL. People from all over the world come here for health care? Yeah, RICH people. Most people, American or otherwise, can't afford American health care out of pocket. Why do rich people come to America for health care? Because being rich gives you the virtue of being able to do whatever the hell you want, when you want.
- SpeedSteamBoat, on 07/01/2008, -2/+5@lwoodnj: First off, I'm ignoring you're complete lies regarding the English health care system. No is waiting 6 months for a physical, moron.
The no, cheaper and more effective is not a contradiction in terms. In fact, cheaper is often the very definition of more effective. If you removed all the extra levels of bureaucracy and middle men that must be accounted for in out private system guess what would happen? It would be a system both cheaper, since you've eliminated an impossible number of paychecks and paperwork that much be accounted for among other expenses, and it would be more effective since doctors and hospitals no longer have to concern themselves with accounting. Everyone is covered and healthcare providers can focus completely on providing health care.
The American health care system is a broken one that leaves millions of people out in the cold. It's disgusting that some would speculate that "the government is bad at stuff" is a good enough reason for forcing millions of people to chose between eating and going to the doctor.
For shame. - kurtu5, on 07/01/2008, -1/+3I once had a freind who would squirt his cat with a small water pistol to keep it from going on the counter. The idea is that if you yell at the cat, it will simply be taught not to go on the counter when you are around. Well he squirts the cat, and it runs to him for protection against the evil counter. Funny stuff.
The moral is that the government is the squirt gun. When you consider the extravagant costs of health care, consider that goverment is responsible for a large bulk of them. Take a look at the Prescription Drug Benefit for example.
So when I hear people say, more goverment will fix it, I see my friend's cat running to him for protection. - digggggggggg, on 07/01/2008, -1/+2The quality of care here may be good, but the system put in place to finance health care is crap. That's why so many Americans go to developing countries like India to get organ transplants and other operations - because they simply can't afford it here.
A lot of Americans don't even have health care. Needless to say, accidents happen, and these people are stuck with a lot of debt because they required medical attention.
The first thing that we need to do is to realize that our mostly private health care system needs improvement. The absolute worst thing we can do is to cover our ears and convince ourselves that everything is just fine. - waydee, on 07/02/2008, -1/+2Why would a British person go to the US for healthcare? If it is not available quickly on the NHS most people who can afford it will pay up for private care, we have that too you know. As far as I can tell healthcare in the US is ludicrously expensive, i've seen the bills and you guys are just getting raped by multiple greedy parties. A stay in a private UK hospital is going to be cheaper than a flight to the states and the cost of unchecked capitalism, even with the strong pound.
- CrazedLeper, on 07/01/2008, -7/+18If your forefathers had been willing to serve the Royal family, you'd have free national health care like all of the Queen's commonwealths do now. But your forefathers wanted to be free so now you are "free". You still serve the Queen (by deception) only you get none of the benefits and you don't even know it. Suckers.
- blipblipbeep, on 07/01/2008, -6/+3America has borders, i still call it a prison.
- vNES, on 07/01/2008, -2/+7King George III was a bloody idiot. Mental.
Had that not been the case, America might well not have declared independence. - geodebug, on 07/01/2008, -2/+13The royal's couldn't stop Tony Blair from gargling Bush's balls for seven years.
I like Royal Crown Cola though. - CrazedLeper, on 07/02/2008, -2/+1@geodebug:
As comical as that image is, it is nonetheless, inaccurate. The fact is that Blair and Bush both report to the Queen. The US is not (and never has been) what you think. The Royals learned centuries ago that their policies would eventually bring stampedes of rioting masses to their door--which would eventually collapse under the pressure. What they have done to forestall this is to basically paint a false face on their ass--the United States. Which is why it's leaders talk so much $@!*
The US was given the appearance of independence and global dominance but the presidents actually, secretly, take orders from the Queen. If they get out of line (and they rarely do) they get knoll'd--as in grassy knoll.
- chizzlechest420, on 07/01/2008, -10/+5why dont you educate your self and get a job that provides decent health care like the rest of us...
ps i am sure you can a better 'deal' in Cuba or tijuana, so knock yourself out
dumbass- filmbandit, on 07/01/2008, -1/+4douche -- here's some education: you can be a well-educated, well-paid worker in this country and still be denied healthcare.
- Jpardue, on 07/01/2008, -0/+2Well JIizumchest420, what do you say to the people who are $40,000 in debt from getting that education, then get a great job, with great health insurance, then they get dropped by there provider because they are diagnosed with cancer....
you ***** loser - chizzlechest420, on 07/07/2008, -0/+1i say your parents are an example of darwin.....spell my name right and maybe i wont point out your weakness...
- filmbandit, on 07/01/2008, -1/+4douche -- here's some education: you can be a well-educated, well-paid worker in this country and still be denied healthcare.
- skipdog172, on 07/01/2008, -4/+4Oh please, great wise one, tell us how a nationalized health care system would automatically force all people around this woman to take notice and tell somebody.
I just can't believe people are trying to use this as an argument for nationalized health care...- filmbandit, on 07/01/2008, -2/+4you've got us there skipdog!!
but the woman wouldn't be there because she would have gotten all those preventative, routine office visits when her situation wasn't so critical
- filmbandit, on 07/01/2008, -2/+4you've got us there skipdog!!
- jasonalangraves, on 07/01/2008, -4/+7I know that these isolated incidents make it seem as if this occurs to every single patient, in every single hospital, but it doesn't.
As far as nationalized health care is concerned, I have been living in Poland for the past 4 years, and I lived in Italy for 2. What I can say is that while the cost for citizens here is relatively low, the conditions in public hospitals are absolutely disgusting. The quality of the doctors is also generally poor. It's important to realize that Europeans are paying around 20% income tax, and in the case of Poland, 7% of that is designated for health care. In Sweden, income tax approaches 50%. The quality of health care in Sweden is significantly better than the European average, but when the government collects 1/2 of every bodies income, Europeans definitely do not get way they pay for. This probably stems from the fact that government provided services are inherently inefficient.- whorunbartertwn, on 07/01/2008, -1/+4Hey do not project your real world experience onto the battle cries of Americans who have never been anywhere else confidently declaring their healthcare system inferior!
- Jpardue, on 07/02/2008, -2/+3If she was in California, they would have at least put her in a cab and dumped her on Skid Row... New Yorkers are so cheap..
- Hangly, on 07/02/2008, -1/+1How is this a problem with the system?
- inboxnews, on 07/01/2008, -28/+24Our health care system is one of the best in the world which explains why people from all over the world, including residents of Canada and the U.K., come here for care. The mental hospital where this incident occurred is run by the city of New York and in no way represents the American health care system.
- blackinthmiddle, on 07/01/2008, -5/+30What will make things even worse is that the Hospital will fight tooth and nail to keep the judgment against them as low as possible. I knew a brick layer who almost lost his hands and it was deemed his employer's fault. He received a check for less than $200K...NINE YEARS LATER!!! This was, of course, before lawyer's fees. If the hospital were to say, "My bad" and open their checkbook, you wouldn't feel *so* bad. But they add insult to injury by fighting things.
- inboxnews, on 07/01/2008, -3/+10Not enough information to make a judgment. Please give us the case number so we can review it for ourselves.
- lwoodnj, on 07/01/2008, -1/+8Why...wouldn't the Hospital fight tooth and nail to avoid judgment? Many things about this make sense:
1. In many situations, the Hospital is justified in trying to avoid patient suits. Too many of them are frivolous. I've talked to doctors, and the reality is we sue for all the things we shouldn't and let slide the things we should. Now, nothing can be taken seriously. Greed has ruined things more than anything else.
2. Why should a hospital be for blame for something like this? I mean, as Inboxnews says, we don't know the whole story, but I'm willing to bet the hospital didn't just "saw off his hands" for no reason. Doctors are doing an incredibly complicated job that's not as simple as Ford producing a car. There are no "guarantees" in medicine, and people need to stop acting like the Hospital is the Grocery Store of "making you healthy". It's not: They're humans, very smart and capable ones, doing the best they can with incredibly difficult situations. If a doctor makes a decision to try to save your life and it goes badly, that's LIFE. He's doing the best he can, TRUST ME: They're not emotionless robots that don't care whether you live or die; they get wracked by guilt and stress over these things. We can't keep punishing people for trying to do the right thing and be courageous. This attitude of "The Hospital is responsible for me and must deliver a product of my good health" is simply immature.
Oh, and:
3. If you hurt yourself on the job or doing something stupid or whatever, and the hospital can't fix you up good as new, THAT'S NOT ITS FAULT. You did something risky, you got hurt, they're doing the best they can to help you, but they don't have to PAY you because they couldn't fix you up. It just doesn't work like that. They're not your parents. They're just people: you got hurt, they're not magicians, take responsibility for the fact that you got injured and stop trying to act like someone else owes you for your pain. They don't. They did what they could. - kurtu5, on 07/01/2008, -3/+1Well if anyone did that to me, I would end up in prison for capital murder.
- lwoodnj, on 07/01/2008, -0/+3For what, killing them? Are you serious? I'm afraid I don't understand that at all. These are people dedicating their lives to a difficult job, but they're not incarnations of Christ. They can't just "heal you". You can be sure that serious thought went into whatever process resulted in hand injury. It's guaranteed to be a better result than otherwise letting the problem stay.
- kurtu5, on 07/01/2008, -0/+1If I was insured via my employer for dismemberment and the lawyers played games with my benefits for 9 years, I might just become mad enough to do something about so no one forgets.
Big business used to be afraid of retaliation from the people.
Did you know that Exxon has not paid any of the claims a jury made them pay for the Exxon Valdez? Their lawyers kept appealing such that nearly 20 years later they only have to pay 500Million(in today's inflated dollars) of the original punitive damages of 2.5Billion. 20% of the recipients of the original award are dead.
Big business used to be afraid of retaliation from the people.
Frankly I am surprised no one killed Ken Lay for stealing the effort's of their entire life's work. - lwoodnj, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1I promise you, no one believes more than I that the "consumer"--cruel a label as that is--needs a new system to provide him/her with the ability to challenge Big Business. Hopefully, in the very near future, someone or even myself will work to create that means for the people to unite against what is becoming a frightening Monopoly on existence by those who run these companies.
However, I encourage you to consider the idea that Hospitals and Doctors are very seperate from "Big Business". They're not the same category, they don't do the same things. Again, the car manufacturer owes you a product for your money. He should be held to a standard and give what he says he will. The doctor is a man who dedicates his life to trying to solve the consequences of random, tragic events. They don't "owe" us; they're doing the best they can, and they shouldn't be punished for doing that.
- kurtu5, on 07/01/2008, -0/+1If I was insured via my employer for dismemberment and the lawyers played games with my benefits for 9 years, I might just become mad enough to do something about so no one forgets.
- Fangsinmybeard, on 07/01/2008, -22/+6Depraved indifference is the legal term for what happened at that facility. Too bad criminal charges won't be filed, ***** racist SOB's.
- arronlorenz, on 07/01/2008, -3/+14Racist? When did the article blame race? How was this in any way shape or form racist? Because she is black means that the staff, and patients around her are all racists?
- kurtu5, on 07/01/2008, -1/+3Arronlorenz, ssh! I am a white supremacists and everytime someone uses racist inappropriately, it allows me to hide real racism amongst these mischaracterized incidents. God man don't ruin it for us, we want the word to lose any real meaning so we can keep locking up black people and never be called out on it!
/Sarcasm
- kurtu5, on 07/01/2008, -1/+3Arronlorenz, ssh! I am a white supremacists and everytime someone uses racist inappropriately, it allows me to hide real racism amongst these mischaracterized incidents. God man don't ruin it for us, we want the word to lose any real meaning so we can keep locking up black people and never be called out on it!
- HenryJonesJr, on 07/01/2008, -0/+3You're an idiot. If you watched the video you'd know that everyone in the room was black; patient, guests, security and staff. You FAIL.
- arronlorenz, on 07/01/2008, -3/+14Racist? When did the article blame race? How was this in any way shape or form racist? Because she is black means that the staff, and patients around her are all racists?
- moracity, on 07/01/2008, -45/+101Sorry, this is not an example of U.S healthcare. It is, however, an example of two other things:
1) People suck and don't even care about one another anymore.
2) This is a county hospital run by the GOVERNMENT. This is what happens when the government interferes where it doesn't belong. This is what messiah Obama wants to bring to everyone. This story is a shining example of why government-run/managed healthcare is bad. There is no accountability when the government is running the show. For some reason, people give government a pass. This unlikely to happen in a privately run hospital. If it did, action would be swift and merciless by the shareholders.- whiterice0, on 07/01/2008, -4/+9Tru dat
- spawnfree, on 07/01/2008, -2/+4well the nurse would be sacked for wasting time kicking corpses for a start.
also, getting care from a system that profits more when less care is given is a bit like getting scientology to cure someones mental problems.- zacharytelschow, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1But how is that different from government run care? Governments drop costs by denying care. Same thing, isn't it?
- bobartig, on 07/01/2008, -11/+9This is an example of US healthcare. For some people, their standard of care is that of terrible county clinics. They can't get seen at a private hospital. Government clinics are underfunded. Private healthcare costs too much. Millions of Americans live without medical insurance. Medical emergencies are a leading cause of bankruptcy amongst the middle class because insurance doesn't cover enough. Sometimes, the system fails so catastrophically that someone just rolls over and dies while waiting in an emergency room.
And those "shareholders" of yours would likely look at the cost of a settlement fee versus the cost of care, then nod their heads and move right along.- kurtu5, on 07/01/2008, -3/+1At least you can have your day in court against a private company. You can't get one against the national goverment. All you can do is vote.
Like how the liberals put the democrats in office to stop the war.... lol!
- kurtu5, on 07/01/2008, -3/+1At least you can have your day in court against a private company. You can't get one against the national goverment. All you can do is vote.
- lwoodnj, on 07/01/2008, -6/+7DUG for being the *****. I'm copying this, memorizing it, and breaking it out whenever someone talks about "Universal Health Care". Nicely worded, nicely done.
- spawnfree, on 07/01/2008, -2/+5dont forget to mention that a lot of people cant afford health insurance right now because private companies run for profit and couldnt give a ***** for people who cant pay, and in a few years you probably wont be able to afford it either.
its good to think about all the factors.
- spawnfree, on 07/01/2008, -2/+5dont forget to mention that a lot of people cant afford health insurance right now because private companies run for profit and couldnt give a ***** for people who cant pay, and in a few years you probably wont be able to afford it either.
- alexforcefive, on 07/01/2008, -1/+8And the fact that this doesn't happen in the UK only reaffirms your conviction that universal health care is a bad thing?
- uwooneeighty, on 07/01/2008, -4/+4im sorry, but your post clearly contradicts itself. you say that its not an example of the US health care system, but then you go on to blame the fact that its a publicly run hospital - a part of the US health system if you like it or not.
you cannot blame this incident on the fact that this is government run hospital. universal health care has done amazing things here in Canada, and the lack of this kind of system its one of the main reasons why i will never live in the USA. yes, i know that government administrated health care may be less efficient and more expensive, but you cannot blame an incident like this on the fact its a public hospital. i agree with your 1) response, but completely disagree with 2)- nydwarf, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1Health care here in Canada, even though run by the government, is still cheaper per capita than it is in the US of A.
http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307ot ...
- nydwarf, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1Health care here in Canada, even though run by the government, is still cheaper per capita than it is in the US of A.
- blipblipbeep, on 07/01/2008, -5/+1O.k U.S healthcare is run by people, is it not?
The government consists of people, right?
The hospital was run by healthcare and people, No?
The government is a representation of what people want, ????
So who are the people any way????
That would be YOU and ME. - mrmorris, on 07/01/2008, -4/+6Ehhh... whatever dude. Thought of looking further than the US border just for a moment?
Here in Denmark we keep being classified as "the happiest people" and a very large reason for that is that we have free health care. In fact, we do not think of it as term of "free", it's a simply citizen right backed by taxes. Your health decides if you get treatment, not your wallet.- jimmies, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1No such thing as "free" healthcare.
- digggggggggg, on 07/02/2008, -1/+5Let's convince ourselves that everything now is absolutely perfect, and that we have the absolute best damn health care system in the world.
However, why is it that so many people simply can't afford quality health care? What are we going to do for these people who aren't fortunate enough to have employers provided health care?
The problem with the system here in the US is that healthcare is treated as a privilege that can be bought, not a right. For every uninsured patient, at the end of the day, the question of who is going to pick up the costs is unclear. Many of these people will be in debt for a very long time.
Universal health care, in its essence, is an attempt to give health care to those who don't have any. Twist its definition whatever way you want to, but I fail to see why it's a bad thing. - JRodriguez809, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1Thats complete bull the European Union all have universal health care and they live longer than we do the problem with the US Govt is that it doesnt know how to run an organization like this properly
- gullevek, on 07/02/2008, -0/+32) is *****. Everywhere else in the world Government runs hospitals and nowhere mayhem breaks loose.
- toshibu, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1"Sorry, this is not an example of U.S healthcare."
Woman dies in an American hospital wait room. Yes, This is an example of US healthcare...
"1) People suck and don't even care about one another anymore."
Wrong. Americans suck and don't care about one another.
"2) This is a county hospital run by the GOVERNMENT. This is what happens when the government interferes where it doesn't belong. This is what messiah Obama ..."
Using a woman's death as base for a political attack. Typical American. Everyone else in the world, including some third world countries, have universal health care. Our old women don't die on the floor with people staring and nurses kicking them. =P - tehnico, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1Re: number 2.
You couldn't be more wrong. This is what happens when you have two tier health care, and the second tier plays second fiddle to the heavily favoured privatized first tier, and it is forced to suffer and languish. When you have ONLY universal health care, it doesn't get whatever is left over, or the bottom of the barrel, and situations such as this never happen. Fact of the matter is, communism in reality is much closer to the current US private health care system, the only difference is where the profits go. Communist systems always function as a school year book committee. Everyone gets their picture, but the buddies and friends take up the space on all the spirit pages. In a truly democratic system everyone gets equal exposure. Universal, unbiased, and altruistic health care truly is more democratic than the current privatized system.- wojtyk, on 07/16/2008, -0/+0lol, you have a truly warped definition of the word "democratic"...enjoy your 70+% income lost to taxes. I'll leave this country long before I vote to slave my ass off just so anyone in the country can irresponsibility live a smoke-filled, drug-injected, cholesterol-laden life and know they'll still be taken care of at the government's teet. Personal accountability actually matters to me.
- qaz0101, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1At last someone who makes sense!
- Rotzooi, on 07/01/2008, -12/+41Like always there are short-sighted comments "our health care system sucks", "no, it's the best in the world!".
In fact, both are true. We have (one of) the highest levels of medical care - it's the capitalist distribution of it that is teh suck.
It's the American way. I hope not for much longer, but for now it sucks to be sick if you're poor.- t0x2c, on 07/01/2008, -17/+5What is this marxism *****.
- DalamarArgent, on 07/01/2008, -1/+6Get back to chanting "U S A, U S A."
- masterm1nd, on 07/01/2008, -11/+7I'm not sure where you're going with this because socialist distribution diminishes the quality of care.
- Rotzooi, on 07/01/2008, -7/+8Your choice: in a few decades, have AMAZING health care, but for only the richest 20% of the country.
Or, have more than adequate health care, for 95% of the country. I don't care, I fled the US a couple of years ago. - Hefelumpman, on 07/01/2008, -6/+11And yet, in almost every country that has a social healthcare system, the populace are significantly healthier than those in the US...
- masterm1nd, on 07/01/2008, -4/+2Yes, but is the quality of care better? No.
/looks for equally misleading stat.
- Rotzooi, on 07/01/2008, -7/+8Your choice: in a few decades, have AMAZING health care, but for only the richest 20% of the country.
- 2612, on 07/02/2008, -0/+2Yes, soon it will suck for all of us. Thanks, BO.
- t0x2c, on 07/01/2008, -17/+5What is this marxism *****.
- bdette, on 07/01/2008, -14/+29We have the worst healthcare system in world. In other words if you are rich you have good health care. The rest of America....pray that you don't get sick or injured.
- gfxlonghorn, on 07/01/2008, -10/+6Oh Darwin....
- bejayel, on 07/01/2008, -2/+4Has nothing to do with darwin here. You need an income where you are at at least $60,000 CLEARED (IE after taxes) to afford health care in the states. Darwin didnt say that.
- TRScheel, on 07/01/2008, -2/+1I make $15,000 currently and can afford health care out my own pocket.
oO - Gonthim, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1Hey hey now TRS, I bet you don't have a car, or cable, or a cell phone. Probably wear used cloths too. You better get your priorities straight man. Don't you know all those things are necessary to enjoy life? What kind of non-consumerist bull ***** are you trying to pull here?
- TRScheel, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1Actually whats really funny is that I do have a car, cable and a cell phone. I haven't bought clothes in over a year but thats because I haven't had a need to do so. I rent a small room and live well within my means enough so that I have spare cash for vacations fairly often.
Just to upnote the above post of mine, I am getting no discounts for any reasons. I have a large deductible ($1100) but I have set aside that amount of money in case something does happen.
- chispito, on 07/01/2008, -11/+3If that's true, why do people sneak into the country for the healthcare?
- bejayel, on 07/01/2008, -1/+7Nobody in their right mind would sneack to the states for health care. Often times, some people will pay for a specialist from the states, but NOBODY sneaks there.
- elnerdo, on 07/01/2008, -2/+2Rich people do, because they need to have an expensive operation immediately, and socialist healthcare systems don't usually take immediate action.
- laughandsing, on 07/01/2008, -5/+4We dont have bad health care. It's people who take advantage of the system who cause all the problems. There are lawsuits left and right for things that shouldnt even go to court. People take advantage of workers comp and lie about injuries. then the employeers have an increase in the workers comp fee. Then people go to the hospital for a stomach ache. This causes the hospital to put in systems where they have to prioritize who they take and who they dont take. The system is not all about money. The hospital will get their fees regardless whether or not it is from you your insurance company or from the government. The government already has plenty of state funded insurance programs. All you have to do is make less than 80,000 a year and to submit a form. There are free clinics everywhere. You can pop in those places and state your income and they take you. the USA has plenty of options. The government cannot be held at fault for people who are uneducated and unwilling to listen.
- kurtu5, on 07/01/2008, -1/+3Don't also forget the prescription drug benefit. You know that peice of legislation that artifically fixes the prices of drugs above their free market value and causes granny to goto Mexico or Canada to buy prescriptions.
- bobartig, on 07/01/2008, -1/+13We don't have the worst healthcare in the world, just one of the worst amongst first world countries. That, and we don't have national healthcare, like most of our peers.
We also pay more for healthcare per capita than those crazy europeans that have better coverage. - elTito, on 07/01/2008, -3/+4If you're rich? LOL
I'm solidly in the middle class and my health care is great.
Hell, my dad is a custodian at a high school and his health care is ***** 10 times what mine is.
You're a tool. - SoulDrift404, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1Correct...faith-based healthcare.
- gfxlonghorn, on 07/01/2008, -10/+6Oh Darwin....
- choopie911, on 07/01/2008, -10/+19And for some reason conservative americans are convinced that Canada's healthcare is crap. I've never had a bad experience personally, and one of my friends was recently hospitalized and has been taken amazing care of.
- beezneez, on 07/01/2008, -7/+14It's not just Americans.
http://digg.com/politics/Canadian_Health_Care_Lies ...
Honestly, this is not a failure of Healthcare in the US. It is a failure of a government run healthcare facility. I'm not saying the US System is perfect, but it is preferable to an ultimately unsustainable government run system.- Jlaugh, on 07/01/2008, -2/+3Americans have bad government because they expect to have bad government.
- bejayel, on 07/01/2008, -1/+2The Canadian health care system is failing because it is under funded, like this hospital. It is also failing because of old peole who go to a clinic every time they stutter.
- kurtu5, on 07/01/2008, -1/+2No we have bad government because compulsary education(re-education) has removed the vocabulary of dissent from the little people.
Bush, Clinton and Kerry went to schools that gave them the vocabulary of control.
- bestsoccerdog, on 07/01/2008, -7/+5Yet people from Canada still come here and pay money to get treatment. I wonder why?
- vNES, on 07/01/2008, -1/+2Dunno. Abortions?
- tightscrummy, on 07/01/2008, -0/+2Breast implants, liposuction, Botox injections?
- vNES, on 07/01/2008, -1/+2Dunno. Abortions?
- BitDrifter, on 07/01/2008, -3/+7"Canada's healthcare is crap. I've never had a bad experience personally"
And I have never had a bad experience here in the US, and I have had friends who were recently hospitalized and had amazing care. I guess by your logic then the US's health care system isn't crap.
Further, there is no "US System" there is a multitude of systems through out the nation, all with varying degrees of successes and failures, some public, some private, some private but funded publicly. Which is the "American way", the United States was set up to be a country of varying ideas. Different states, counties and even cities could come up with their own way of doing things, and then the others could look at the various different ways for improvements to their own. For instance, on many occasions when California comes up with a new law, other states follow suit after seeing its success there, or don't based on its failures. - StankInTheBank, on 07/05/2008, -0/+1Conservatives believe a lot of things. They are by nature suckers.
- beezneez, on 07/01/2008, -7/+14It's not just Americans.
- Scheissen, on 07/01/2008, -15/+37Screw universal healthcare, did you guys even read that article? She was in a municipal hospital. Not a private one. That hospital is maintained by the town.
- randumbusername, on 07/01/2008, -2/+9come on now, you know the solution is to throw someone else's money at the problem. this way you'll look compassionate.
- Revolutionista, on 07/01/2008, -4/+4Sad and blindingly shameful, what we subject these people to.
- masterm1nd, on 07/01/2008, -16/+11Yes, now let's compare this case to the one person in Cuba who got treated. Brilliant job liberals.
- GiJoeBob, on 07/01/2008, -4/+44"Other patients waiting a few feet away didn't react. Security guards and a member of the hospital's staff appeared to notice her prone body at least three times but made no visible attempt to see whether she needed help."
This is what is wrong with AMERICA, not the health care system.- Asheis, on 07/01/2008, -3/+5you're wrong.
Read the post two down about diffusion of responsibility.
This could've happened in any place around the world.- kakwakas, on 07/01/2008, -0/+2Seconded. It's pretty sad, but it's modern human nature.
- unclebuck, on 07/01/2008, -0/+7"Other patients waiting a few feet away didn't react...."
You did catch the part about this being a psych-ward emergency room, right? Those other patients weren't exactly in the best state of mind. - lizard450, on 07/02/2008, -2/+0Oh yeah... great canadien health care system my ***** ass!!! my Grandfather was dying and had to wait 45 minutes for a ***** ambulance in the ***** suburbs of montreal. The hospital was ***** jam packed because they couldn't afford to keep the entire hospital open. I mean you couldn't get a room in the hospital they stuck you in a hallway with 100 other people who are crying and all you have between you and them is a ***** curtain. For a year his doctor was telling him he was faking his stomach pains and when he FINALLY got a new doctor and the doctor gave him the benefit of the doubt and signed up him for an MRI 4 months later the tech ***** up and scanned his chest and not his stomach. Thankfully my Grandfather had lung cancer and the tech's ***** up ended up resulting in my grandfather getting the help he needed. Mind you if my Grandfather was in the states he would have been able to simply go to another doctor without a fuss and maybe he would have beaten his cancer.
Or how about the 6 month waiting period my cousin had to wait out to go see a specialist because her doctors had no idea what was wrong with her? And then she was told she had to wait another 3 months. ***** you and your horse ***** health care system. It probably services people just as well as the health care system healthy people are content with their health care and most people in the US and in Canada are healthy.
- Asheis, on 07/01/2008, -3/+5you're wrong.
- whiterice0, on 07/01/2008, -9/+17"Excuse me Miss, do you have insurance? If not, you'll have to drag yourself out."
- Ghorkvos, on 07/01/2008, -1/+41This is an example of diffusion of responsibility similar to what happened to Kitty Genovese. Really its a sad occurrence when people just sit around and do nothing expecting others the take responsibility but none do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsi ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese- Asheis, on 07/01/2008, -0/+10damnable.. you beat me to it!
It's not what's wrong with america, it's whats wrong with people in general. It's a well know fact when people have a sense that it isn't their problem to deal with personally, they just don't act.
Saying it's America's fault is ignorant and inflammatory. If the poster isn't american, they can go to hell. If they ARE american, they should be ashamed of themselves. I'll be the first to admit that america isn't the beacon of perfection in the world today, but it isn't as bad as many of these people are making it out to be.
All this, coming from a liberal.. who'da thought?- nighthwk1, on 07/01/2008, -0/+3It isn't something that is a problem everywhere, it's a problem with overcrowding. With the number of people in a city like New York, people around you become mere statistics. It's impossible for such a group of people to become familiar with each other, as they would in a small town or tribe.
- Asheis, on 07/01/2008, -0/+1It is a problem everywhere.. at least in places with larger cities... that's what I mean.
This could happen in bigger european cities too. That's what I'm trying to say. - kurtu5, on 07/01/2008, -2/+3This ***** doesn't happen where people run their own lives. Places like Alaska, where people are resonsible for themselves or they die, this ***** doesn't happen.
Places where people are wards of the government, where they get protection from police, complain against neighbors using police, look for health care from the system, look for education from the system, and ask the system continually for permission, these places have people who don't know to look out for themselves and expect the experts to do.
This is what is wrong. And this is why I am not a liberal. I actually care and am willing to pass a stranded motorist, get to an exit, drive miles back to where I passed them and help out. Liberals(in the general case) call the cops or hope someone else does.
I recall a case where a black middle class neighborhood called in an expert in education to find out why thier kids were performing worse that the white kids at the same school. The expert(who is black) said that there was a culture of expecting the school to ensure thier kids got educated, whereas in the white families, there was a culture of helping little drooling Johhny get his homework done properly.
Needless to say these black families cried racism and insisted the school do something about it. A few paid more attention to what thier kids were bringing home. - Asheis, on 07/02/2008, -0/+2Wow, way to make this into a liberal vs. conservative debate.
I'm liberal, and I've help a stranded motorist before. And i'd be willing to do it again.
How does that have anything to do with the psychology of large (I mean big city large) groups of people? Nothing, just more inflammatory remarks. You're absolutely wrong if you think this only happens in america.
- Hangly, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1It's a problem with the industrialized world, not "people in general." This kind of phenomenon simply doesn't happen outside of cities in the US, Western Europe and Japan.
If you keeled over somewhere in Kenya or Central America, no one would watch it happen and say "oh well, not my job." You would be swarmed by people trying to help you.
Ask someone who's been around for a while. This kind of phenomenon was unheard of in the US too prior to about 1967.
- Asheis, on 07/01/2008, -0/+10damnable.. you beat me to it!
- Borgcube636, on 07/01/2008, -8/+15When our generation (18-30) starts running the nation, lets make sure this doesn't happen. It all begins with a change of mindset in each of us.
- thesauce, on 07/01/2008, -6/+18I broke my arm once on superbowl sunday.
Had to sit in a ***** plastic chair for over 6 hours before anyone even took a look at it. Some dumbass came in, said "yeah it's broken" (no ***** *****!), tried to put on a cast, ***** up like 30 times, and billed me for thousands of dollars.
Yay.- skipdog172, on 07/01/2008, -5/+7OH NOES YOU BROKE YOUR ARM AND HAD TO WAIT FOR OTHERS TO GET HELPED FIRST
This isn't something a national healthcare system will fix. If the ER is busy, the ER is busy. It occassionally happens everywhere and there is nothing that can be done. You can't overstaff all hospitals with an excessive amount of doctors. In fact, with more people going to get medical care when they normally wouldn't, you can expect that wait time to increase.- spawnfree, on 07/02/2008, -1/+3a national healthcare system will fix the 'thousands of dollars' part.
that's mostly profit by the way.
people like you sound like you are getting some of this money, but that would be ridiculous. right? - StankInTheBank, on 07/05/2008, -0/+1Every time I go to the emergency room (why is there no place for non-emergencies?) it is a 5 hour wait. That's *****.
- spawnfree, on 07/02/2008, -1/+3a national healthcare system will fix the 'thousands of dollars' part.
- skipdog172, on 07/01/2008, -5/+7OH NOES YOU BROKE YOUR ARM AND HAD TO WAIT FOR OTHERS TO GET HELPED FIRST
- Jpardue, on 07/01/2008, -12/+19Since this is American health care they will probably still send her family a bill for about $150,000 for putting her dead body on the stretcher...
- kaplanfx, on 07/02/2008, -0/+2No, since this is American healthcare her family will probably sue every single person in the hospital and the city system that provides it, putting the hospital out of business and guaranteeing that the next person doesn't even have a chance at getting care.
- ThewkplaceHRguy, on 07/01/2008, -10/+13so is the thought that this will get cleared up with universal health care? think again my friends
- Jlaugh, on 07/01/2008, -2/+9Yeah actually I never once saw a bill in Canada, yet had perfectly adequate care. The Canadian system works for more people more of the time.
- ThewkplaceHRguy, on 07/01/2008, -1/+3I have some Canadian counterparts that I work with -- I envy their additional benefits particularly in healthcare but certainly don't envy their tax bracket
- SpookyPig, on 07/01/2008, -0/+2Please prove your claim somehow. You're using a theoretical situation to prove that it won't help at all even though you don't make any claims to back it up.
- Zaeyde, on 07/01/2008, -2/+4If I recall correctly, this isn't the first time this has happened at this particular hospital.
I think another situation almost identical happened, where a woman begged for help but was ignored because she was a prisoner.
Or something. - InorganicMatter, on 07/01/2008, -19/+5No, here is an example of illegal immigrants clogging up America's emergency rooms (where they cannot be refused service, even if they have no money) with petty ailments like coughs and colds while seriously injured people (who actually have an EMERGENCY) suffer in the waiting room.
- SkippyDoorknob, on 07/01/2008, -1/+6[citation needed]
Please list the other patients and their ailments being treated in that emergency room at the time.
Every emergency room I've been in (as a patient or accompanying a patient) prioritized cases based on how serious they are. - skipdog172, on 07/01/2008, -1/+4you are dumb.
ERs do not operate on a first-come first-serve basis. - kurtu5, on 07/01/2008, -1/+2Come on inorganitmatter, they do do triage. As much as I agree about the extra burdens you mention, triage still takes place in regular ERs.
- bjornski, on 07/01/2008, -0/+7No, here is an example of *the uninsured* clogging up America's emergency rooms
Fixed that for you. - supersoyboy, on 07/01/2008, -4/+3***** YOU! ARENT THEY HUMAN TOO? go ***** yourself you selfish inhuman piece of *****
- SkippyDoorknob, on 07/01/2008, -1/+6[citation needed]
- yosserhughes, on 07/01/2008, -2/+12On the bright side, no-one stole her purse.
- Madpony, on 07/01/2008, -3/+8* Results not typical
- Barackalypse, on 07/01/2008, -2/+9Usually that kind of inattentiveness, indifference, and incompetence is reserved for government employees at places like the DMV.
- bruce86, on 07/01/2008, -2/+2actually at the DMV in maryland, it is quit effiecent and streamline, depending what you are in for, you can be in an out in 15 minutes.
- Barackalypse, on 07/02/2008, -1/+2Lucky, I showed up 5 minutes before the downtown office in my city opened and got to sit around with nearly 20 people who hadn't showered and didn't speak much English. Of course those are also the slowest people to be behind as well, since they seem not to have the proper documentation and can't fill out the forms without assistance.
- bruce86, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1God damn spics need to learn how to speak american right?
- bjornski, on 07/01/2008, -2/+2Come to the DMV in Minnesota.
In and out in about 15 minutes. The place is a fantastic model of efficiency.
- bruce86, on 07/01/2008, -2/+2actually at the DMV in maryland, it is quit effiecent and streamline, depending what you are in for, you can be in an out in 15 minutes.
- Sluglas, on 07/01/2008, -12/+17She probably died because they were all too busy helping the completely uninsured and non-paying illegal aliens that use the ER as their primary form of free health care.
- Darkone253, on 07/01/2008, -6/+5This has NOTHING to do with American Healthcare. It certainly shows how concerned humans are for each other, especially in New York. (end sarcasm.)
- Portwineboy, on 07/01/2008, -2/+3"especially in New York"
Really? Because time and time again, New Yorkers have proven themselves to care greatly for their neighbors in a time of need. I guess you weren't here during either blackout or during 9/11...
- Portwineboy, on 07/01/2008, -2/+3"especially in New York"
- Digger1218, on 07/01/2008, -5/+17Ok. So how would universal coverage have prevented this?
- bjornski, on 07/01/2008, -0/+11Half of the other people in the emergency room wouldn't have been there for their primary care.
- kenjura, on 07/01/2008, -0/+3These are absolutely the best 2 posts in the entire story.
- mobling, on 07/01/2008, -2/+1Behold! The future for Veterans Hospitals and clinics everywhere.
- Kcaj, on 07/01/2008, -10/+5Survival of the fittest. I say we just do away with all the "health care" and such altogether and let nature sort things out. Spoon feeding life-essence to those who would otherwise die is an abomination. I know, I know, controversial things I am saying, because everybody can remember a time in wich *they* were in the hospital...
In most cases, all adoctor does is say "Oh, what is wrong with you is (x) and you need to (y) or else you will (z)". What more do most of them do? Not much. Not much at all. Then, when you go deeper, you get to the level of surgeons and such (higher medical professions) that really only serve to resurrect or prevent death on such a scale that it could never be deemed natural.- zerobackup, on 07/01/2008, -0/+4Dwight Schrute?
- gryphon50, on 07/01/2008, -0/+2let me translate- "I'm still young and healthy! Screw everyone else!"
- vNES, on 07/01/2008, -0/+1I've actually never been in a hospital, as a patient before.
Perhaps that's because I'm afraid of bugs. - jlab, on 07/01/2008, -0/+1Survival of the fittest..... until something is wrong with you. Somehow I don't think you'll want to just die.
- digggggggggg, on 07/02/2008, -0/+2"In nature, there is no health care. It's ow I hurt my leg, I can't run, a tiger eats me and I'm dead."
- zacharytelschow, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1Actually, all doctors have ever said to me is: "Its a virus, so there's nothing we can do about it. Why don't you go home, get some rest, and keep hydrated, ok?"
- Narrator, on 07/01/2008, -3/+2You know I think there's something wrong with the health care system and it's not the amount of money being spent or who is paying. It's unfortunate that the debate is so one dimensional like that. I think one symptom of something being wrong with our health care system is that some doctors get more than $500k/year. In other countries that doesn't happen. People go to Walgreens and get the same prescription they could have gotten at costco for 10x more because their insurance is paying for it anyway and their copay will be the same. There are some instances in which the more money spent on medicine, the less medicine is provided. For instance, if all available doctors are working and employed throwing more money at the problem just makes the doctors charge more and take more time off lessening the amount of doctor care available.
- guyincognitoo, on 07/02/2008, -1/+2When you go to school for 15 years, you have earned that salary.
- zacharytelschow, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1"People go to Walgreens and get the same prescription they could have gotten at costco for 10x more because their insurance is paying for it anyway and their copay will be the same."
THAT is the problem, not doctors salaries. People don't care how much medical care costs because they don't pay for it out of their own pocket. Quick, how much is a physical? You have no freaking idea, and THAT is the problem. If you had to pay a flat percentage of your costs (25% up to 3k or something) you'd learn quickly what procedures costs how much and which locations, and you'd go to the cheaper ones if they met your standards.
- whitecamarors, on 07/01/2008, -12/+5People from Europe and Canada both still keep coming to the U.S. when they are looking for the best care possible. We must be doing something right =)
- Jlaugh, on 07/01/2008, -0/+7Coming to talk to a specialist who is an expert in there particular field, works both ways. I've also met people who travel from the US to India to get surgery.
- ssjbriguy, on 07/02/2008, -0/+2There was an article I read last month (Newsweek, I think) about Americans going to other countries for surgery because it costs less.
- Jlaugh, on 07/01/2008, -0/+7Coming to talk to a specialist who is an expert in there particular field, works both ways. I've also met people who travel from the US to India to get surgery.
- highlymodified, on 07/01/2008, -5/+10To all of the people saying that she died because it was a city-owned hospital, and equating this tragic situation to universal healthcare:
If the government didn't provide said hospital, her AND everyone else there could dead too.
This is not a case against universal healthcare, this is a case against neglectful staff and overcrowing (probably due to underfunding).
Get over yourselves, Paulites.- kurtu5, on 07/01/2008, -3/+2Wow. Love that liberal reasoning.
1st) "everyone COULD be dead", can't disprove that. Its conceivable that they could be.
2nd) "probably due to underfunding". Hell yeah throw more moey at it, that works.
- kurtu5, on 07/01/2008, -3/+2Wow. Love that liberal reasoning.
- floridiot2, on 07/01/2008, -7/+14She was just playing Solid Snake, trying to blend in with the floors.
- nastronomical, on 07/01/2008, -12/+9This is a CITY RUN mental health facility. Read GOVERNMENT RUN.
- tama00, on 07/01/2008, -1/+1So what if its government run. The government should have the best health care systems to help its own people.
- esfisher, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1Speaking for myself, I do not belong to the government
- tama00, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1Have you forgotten the government REPRESENTS YOU!
- tama00, on 07/01/2008, -1/+1So what if its government run. The government should have the best health care systems to help its own people.
- DrivinWest, on 07/01/2008, -10/+35I'll probably get dugg down for this, but my experience with American health care beats the hell out of what I've gotten in France, Germany, and the UK.
In Germany I'm required to pay ~250 Euros (US$380) a month for full coverage. The same coverage in the U.S. cost me $10 a month. The only caveat was that I had to pay a tiny co-pay in the U.S.; $75 for an ER visit, $10 per doctor visit, $10 per prescription. All told I probably paid less than 10% in the US than I now pay in Germany.
Additionally, I've found American doctors to be more accessible (they don't disappear for months at a time) and their willingness to treat pain makes Germany look like it's stuck in the 1800s. e.g. after major oral surgery where they sawed her jaw in half, my girlfriend was given 600mg tablets of Ibuporofen - three f-ing Advil! When she complained about the pain, they upped the prescription to 800mg. They also cost an outrageous price (funnily enough we had a bottle of 300 200mg Advil pills that we got in the US which cost us less than $10). She went to another doctor who essentially told her to suck it up; surgery is painful. I think Germans like being miserable, but that's a whole 'nother topic.
My experience is purely anecdotal, but at the very least I hope to convey that there are some people in Europe who long for American health care!- rald84, on 07/01/2008, -1/+7"The same coverage in the U.S. cost me $10 a month."
i'd like to know your provider so i can get insurance for pennies a day! if everyone was able to get insurance for $120 annually, i don't think we'd be in this *****.- DrivinWest, on 07/02/2008, -0/+2Agreed. My situation is anecdotal. My American costs were low because I negotiated employee health care subsidy into my contract rather than a pay raise. Many companies will do this.
- RainbowLJ, on 07/01/2008, -6/+4thats cuz u are not a german citizen u dick
- DrivinWest, on 07/01/2008, -3/+3Uh, it make zero difference, dick. I have the *exact* same insurance as a German citizen. While it's a great system for those who don't earn much (and those who CHOSE not to work - which is many), if you're anything above lower-middle class it's very expensive and fairly mediocre.
- toshibu, on 07/02/2008, -2/+1Did you ever think maybe it's because you're not a citizen of "France, Germany, and the UK"?
Also, those people "who long for American health care!" are probably in the top 10% in terms of income--of course they'd prefer the American system where the rich are favoured...- flibuste, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1Absolutely. If you are a citizen, it doesn't cost you a penny in France. If
you're not, it's just like being French and going to an American hospital: if you don't have a private insurance that covers health care abroad, you'll pay the whole bill.
All in all, when you need to pay fully, american hospitals are MUCH more expensive.
- flibuste, on 07/02/2008, -0/+1Absolutely. If you are a citizen, it doesn't cost you a penny in France. If
- StankInTheBank, on 07/05/2008, -1/+1This is the dumbest crap I've ever heard. Full coverage costs over $1000/month - IF you are approved.
- rald84, on 07/01/2008, -1/+7"The same coverage in the U.S. cost me $10 a month."
- geneticlone, on 07/01/2008, -0/+4Our education systems truly don't produce enough doctors and nurses to treat all of us. There should really be more incentive to do so. Instead of creating worthless degrees like "communication that", "communication this", and art "that" we should be looking at places like our hospitals and pushing young people to get their degrees in something important like medicine. It isn't about going to a good school anymore its about having the will to learn and help others.
- mohsenxp, on 07/01/2008, -4/+1you tell that to an undergraduate who will be earning £40k with his 'communication that' degree. Tell him to be a nurse or an emergency doctor instead. Forget about quality of life or anything like that.
Heck just tell him to come and logon to Digg and post a comment to tell others to do that! That'll be his good deed for the year. - MJM573, on 07/02/2008, -0/+0Yeah, lets force Jack/Jill who was stupid enough to go to college which costs an arm and a leg and spend thousands of dollars on a "communications" degree to work as a nurse or doctor. That'll definatly work. To be honest there isn't a thing you can do to encourage people to take these jobs because A). you need to have a passion for it and B). you have to be somewhat intelligent enough to learn this trade. Learning how to be a Beer Company's Brand Rep. requires a pulse and a blackberry which is jack ***** compared to measuring medications and providing adequate care letalone compassion for those in some need.
- mohsenxp, on 07/01/2008, -4/+1you tell that to an undergraduate who will be earning £40k with his 'communication that' degree. Tell him to be a nurse or an emergency doctor instead. Forget about quality of life or anything like that.
- FrapFreak, on 07/01/2008, -1/+5Here's an example of American Healthcare: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24999650/
- bruce86, on 07/01/2008, -1/+2ability to save lives, and actually doing so are not the same thing. Just because america has advanced technology which incidentally is probably funded by goverment grants to researchers. doesn't mean it is great unless we use this technology to help people, not just those who can afford it, or ones that make good publicity.
With great power comes great responsibility. As you clearly show, america has great power, but where is it's responsibility.- FrapFreak, on 07/07/2008, -0/+0The responsibility is the best medical universities in the world leading the way for health care breakthroughs for the betterment of the world. The responsibility is having 5 of the top 10 pharmaceutical companies developing life saving drugs for the world. The responsibility comes from the $306 billion dollars in charitable donations from the private sector. The responsibility comes from the $122.8 billion in foreign aid of which $95.5 billion was also from the private sector.
And FYI, we don't provide the technology ONLY to those who can afford it. Every hospital is required by law to help an individual in any way they can to save his/her life regardless of whether or not they can afford it... and that even includes non-US citizens.
- FrapFreak, on 07/07/2008, -0/+0The responsibility is the best medical universities in the world leading the way for health care breakthroughs for the betterment of the world. The responsibility is having 5 of the top 10 pharmaceutical companies developing life saving drugs for the world. The responsibility comes from the $306 billion dollars in charitable donations from the private sector. The responsibility comes from the $122.8 billion in foreign aid of which $95.5 billion was also from the private sector.
- oldtactics, on 07/02/2008, -0/+2Texas Children's Hospital is a private hospital that can afford to hire the best pediatricians they can find. Completely not representative of the health care system in general.
- FrapFreak, on 07/07/2008, -0/+0And explain to me how Kings County Hospital is a representative of the health care system as a whole?
- bruce86, on 07/01/2008, -1/+2ability to save lives, and actually doing so are not the same thing. Just because america has advanced technology which incidentally is probably funded by goverment grants to researchers. doesn't mean it is great unless we use this technology to help people, not just those who can afford it, or ones that make good publicity.
- hellahyphy, on 07/01/2008, -1/+7This is shameful.
- hawkeye17, on 07/01/2008, -1/+14This tragedy is also indicative of a lack of basic ***** humanity that is sweeping this country the last 8 years. Anyone who saw her like that and did nothing should go to jail for being inhuman. Sickening.
- kurtu5, on 07/01/2008, -1/+3Are you going to make this your cause now? Or are you going to expect that the followup to make sure this never happens again is someone else's responsibility?
- gigigugit, on 07/01/2008, -0/+3Yep, Bush's fault...
- Serial0Hacker, on 07/02/2008, -0/+0Had you not made it about bush, I would have dug you up.