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How big is England? Mapmakers Can't Seem to Agree [Maps]

noisydecentgraphics.typepad.co… — So for the last two years I've been taking pictures of Britain on world maps. Not accurate maps, but drawings or illustrations of maps. The differences are amazing. You might assume that all maps were accurate, or at least accurate-ish. But no, designers play fast and loose with the truth.

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  • avsa, on 07/08/2008, -2/+27dugg for map projections, me love them, even did one for wikipedia once (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Oceans.png ... on how the dolphins would map the earth

    Everytime I see a dymaxion map i wish I could play some sort of risk or go like game on it..
  • timbro1, on 07/08/2008, -10/+2too big but not big enough wink wink
  • AlexBellisBrown, on 07/08/2008, -1/+9Very well written.
  • mummbleswers, on 07/08/2008, -5/+8I could be wrong but isn't there some thing where no map is accurate? I think I remember something like that when I was younger asking my teachers about it. But looking at some of these, I mean c'mon, they got Alaska as big as the whole western portion of the U.S.!
    • ivan423, on 07/09/2008, -0/+12Maps are different because they use different projections.

      Map makers usually put the type of projection used to make the map next to the scale information.
      • auntvonna, on 07/09/2008, -0/+11Read my reply below also. NO map is accurate because when you flatten a rounded (well, spherical planet) onto a sheet of paper, somethings has to give somewhere. There are localized maps that are pretty accurate because the right projection was chosen, but getting an accurate map of the whole earth is pretty much impossible.
      • Scruffydan, on 07/09/2008, -0/+7it is even more complex than that. The earth isn't a sphere, though it is frequently simplified into one. The earth isn't even an ellipse. It is a geoid. The geoid is represented by a datum, of which there are many kinds both local and global, and then the datum is flattened onto a flat piece of paper using a specific projection. Again there are several different projections, with different characteristics.
    • tundratess, on 07/09/2008, -2/+1If you superimposed Alaska on top of the lower 48 it would touch from the east coast to the West. I'm not sure how much of the country you consider the western portion but Alaska is 586,380 square miles.

      http://digg.com/world_news/How_Big_is_Alaska_Amazi ...
      • terminal157, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3The link you posted contradicts your assertion.
    • svendm, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3No (flat) map is accurate. (a globe is though..)

      A simple way to express this is that there are three properties a map can have:

      * Correct distances between any two points
      * Correct areas
      * Correct angles between two intersecting lines on the map

      IIRC a 2D projection can't ever fulfill more than two out of the three.
    • Duositex, on 07/09/2008, -1/+4Alaska IS as big as the entire western portion of the United States. It's twice the size of Texas...
    • cjh24, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2Google Earth is pretty damn good (3d projection)
    • mummbleswers, on 07/09/2008, -0/+1For those of you who pointed out how big Alaska really is - HOLY ***** *****!!!! IT'S GONNA KILL US ALL!!!! j/k thanks, I didn't realize.
  • mrfuzzy129, on 07/09/2008, -0/+5http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projection
  • AmyVernon, on 07/09/2008, -0/+4whatever the case, it's still cool. i love looking at all different maps, and it is kinda funky how they all have different perspectives...
  • auntvonna, on 07/09/2008, -0/+35Cool find!! I'm a geographer, so I LOVE stuff like this! Yes, there are a lot of different projections you can choose and each and every one of them will distort the "truth" to some degree. When you have a rounded (or sphere shaped) planet and try to flatten it out on a sheet of paper, something is getting distorted somewhere. Therefore, a good geographer knows which projection to choose to show what they are trying to illustrate in the best possible way. Interesting, thanks for sharing this!
    • RapnGranny, on 07/10/2008, -1/+1Ummmmm, yaaaa. How did this comment get so many diggs. Have lots of friends that also love projections do you? Do you dream about ellipsoids and datums and the semi-major axis? Do you lie awake at night pondering the problems caused by GPS units recording something other than your elevation above seal level?
  • YancyFryJr, on 07/13/2008, -3/+5Maybe it changes over time. Like Pangaea or something. Yeah, that makes sense.
  • platipuz, on 07/09/2008, -1/+27Well that does it ... Digg needs a Maps section.
    • therightclique, on 07/09/2008, -0/+1If Rock Band can have one, Digg can have one.
    • bagboyrebel, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2Dammit, the only reason I even came to the comments section was to say that. Oh well, you beat me to it and get my digg.
  • TheTardis, on 07/09/2008, -1/+13How Long Is the Coast of Britain? Statistical Self-Similarity and Fractional Dimension

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Long_Is_the_Coast ...
  • fxu1989, on 07/09/2008, -2/+6About thiiiiiiiiiis big.

    |----|
    • eigenweasel, on 07/09/2008, -0/+16History demonstrates that England is as big as it wants to be.
    • PyrotekNX, on 07/09/2008, -0/+1(not to scale)
  • Jennefah, on 07/09/2008, -0/+65They're all wrong...

    THIS - http://viking.hgo.se/maps/england.gif (marked in green)

    ... is how big England is.

    [/member of the "Stop calling Britain "England", there's at least 3 other countries in there, Society"]
    • freak3295, on 07/09/2008, -0/+10Thank you, cause i was about to say the same thing. You know theres these places called Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland!
      • bosssmiley, on 07/09/2008, -1/+5Oh, you mean the desolate and godforsaken Celtic garnish. ;-)
    • baarr, on 07/09/2008, -8/+8That's not exactly true. The exact terminology is pretty complex, take a look at this image:

      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/9 ...

      Or if you rather like to read:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_(termin ...
      • slurba, on 07/09/2008, -0/+1What he said was completely correct. It'd be like me saying I live in the USA, not just "America", then you pointing out there's a South America on Earth too. It has no affect on said facts.
      • Jennefah, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3Scotland is part of Britain... but Scotland is not part of England.

        It would be like saying "how big is California?" then showing a picture of the entire US (and implying that the entire US is California). It's not context or terminology, it's just plain incorrect.
    • Grimdotdotdot, on 07/09/2008, -1/+3Yeah, but at least two of them are rubbish =]
    • Renster84, on 07/09/2008, -0/+4Britian Is England, Scotland Wales.
      Its just the central landmass.

      The united kingdom adds numerous others.

    • hove, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3Old map, Avon no longer exists.
  • Poweroft, on 07/09/2008, -12/+24I'm sorry, I'm from America, where is England?
  • NecroSexy, on 07/09/2008, -1/+5y hello thar space satellites
  • CommissarVlad, on 07/09/2008, -13/+2Buried for simply being an article with an axe to grind. (Large negative bias towards Great Britain, seems to favor New Zealand.)
  • macbethslady, on 07/09/2008, -0/+14In his little drawings, Britain consistently looks like a bunny about to eat a cabbage.
    • bosssmiley, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3Rolf Harris used to draw Great Britain as a kangaroo (Kent = feet, Cornwall = tail), and Ireland as a koala.
  • Kinneas12, on 07/09/2008, -4/+11It pains me as a geography student to have read that. MAP PROJECTIONS ARE NOT AN ARTISTS INTERPRETATION! You can't perfectly flatten the round earth onto a page, so projections are used.
  • DuffyDirect, on 07/09/2008, -2/+6Yeah this was really interesting when I first learned about it in 9th grade earth science class...
  • linedrawing76, on 07/09/2008, -3/+1I've noticed that when I've looked at maps before too, but I always thought it was because Britain was made of dough and it just kinda wobbled around on the Northeast Atlantic, and every different Britain shape came about from an approximation of what the dough was shaped like at the time the map was made.

    Also, most of those shapes look like turds.
    • bosssmiley, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3This foreign devil has learned the secret of our doughscaping technologies. Send in the tweed ninjas!
  • KaJuN4, on 07/09/2008, -4/+3I've always thought England looked like a genie coming out of a bottle.
  • darkmist, on 07/09/2008, -0/+17Americans (at least where I've been) are actually quite used to seeing the "European" world map.
    • Vash265, on 07/09/2008, -0/+7Ditto. Evidence for that assertion can be found by examining the terms we use to describe other continents and countries. We don't say that we're in the center of the world, we say we're a 'western nation', and we (as a general rule of thumb) refer to Asian countries as the 'Far East'. That's reflected in nearly every map I've ever seen.
    • TWiTsoldier, on 07/09/2008, -0/+6I will even go as far as to claim that I have NEVER seen the "American" map in any atlas or classroom. This is actually the first time I've ever seen that version of the world map, and I live in California.
    • terminal157, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3Yeah. I suspect it's a subtle dig at America's stereotypical centrism, and they didn't bother looking into whether or not it was accurate.
      • dajs, on 07/09/2008, -1/+2i knew Americans who had this map (the America centered one)
    • flashingcurser, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3I cannot recall ever seeing Asia split in half on a map.
  • Stonekeeper, on 07/09/2008, -0/+13For a moment there, I thought the article was about England.
  • Specialist, on 07/09/2008, -0/+5I love the end how the mean shape is created. Using that logic I could have 138 perfectly accurate drawings of england and one giant circle as someones representation, and the mean of all of those once filled in would simply be the giant circle....
    • damawa42, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2The article loses its credibility at the point where it confuses "mean" with "maximum"!!
      • SixOrSoPapers, on 07/09/2008, -0/+1Probably "union" would be the most accurate term (viewing the various regions as sets in 2d).
  • lofi4life, on 07/09/2008, -2/+10England? Don't you mean Great Britain?
  • therightclique, on 07/09/2008, -3/+11The author says "Americans will be used to seeing this map of the world." and then displays a version of the map I've never seen before and I grew up in America. Americans don't consider America to be the center of the world. Sorry. Your stereotypes just aren't going to work. The map shown after "Whereas Europeans will be used to seeing this map of the world." is the only orientation of the world map I've ever seen in any American text book. Why did this author feel the need to paint his or her bigotry towards into the article?
    • xrisnothing, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3I seem to remember seeing a map like that at a historical site, that was actually an old one room school from the late 1800's.
  • Hangly, on 07/09/2008, -0/+9According to chaos theory, the coast of England is infinite in length.

    Dammit, TheTardis beat me to it.
  • dmanmax99, on 07/09/2008, -1/+0map makers are quite biased, they typically make their country bigger and rival nations smaller. Its been going on for years.
    • terminal157, on 07/09/2008, -0/+1What are we talking here? Like, five years? Ten years?
  • rumdrunk, on 07/09/2008, -2/+10I think you mean the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, not England!
    • Grimdotdotdot, on 07/09/2008, -4/+4I think you need to read the comments before you rush to post something that you think makes you sound oh so clever.
      • magicaltrevor, on 07/09/2008, -1/+2Rumdrunk is the first person in the comments to give the country its correct name. Great Britain merely counts for the territories of England, Scotland and Wales. The United Kingdom is Britain + Northern Ireland.
      • Grimdotdotdot, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2Both "the UK" and "Britain" mean exactly the same as "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_kingdom
  • amazingleper, on 07/09/2008, -2/+1Guys I figured it out, it's called distortion.
    Deal with it.
  • ProdigalFather, on 07/09/2008, -3/+1I bet the Queen and Prince Charles plotted this for years.

  • checkacheck, on 07/09/2008, -0/+6Us guys always have had problems with accurately describing size...
  • Peck3277, on 07/09/2008, -4/+4Buried for including Ireland as part of Britain
    • glenSM, on 07/09/2008, -1/+2haha well done
    • damawa42, on 07/09/2008, -2/+5It IS part of Britain.
      Great Britain refers to the larger island. Guess what refers to the smaller island?
      Ireland is part of the British Isles.
      The Republic Of Ireland is not part of the United Kingdom Of Great Britain and Northern Island.
      The clue is in the name.
    • kronix2, on 07/09/2008, -1/+2Ireland is one of the British Isles, but it's most certainly not part of Britain, which refers to either "Great Britain" - the largest of the British Isles - or the United Kingdom.
  • Ransack, on 07/09/2008, -0/+9"whoever was drawing the map always made their country look bigger and more important"

    Damn all those Greenlander map makers!
  • jamdogg, on 07/09/2008, -0/+6The Southern hemisphere map is awesome. We would call it "upside down". But there's no law to say North is "up" and South is "down".
  • craighamnett, on 07/09/2008, -0/+5The title of the blog post is a play on words from this film - This is England (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480025/)
    In the blog the author describes it as Britain, msaleem has just misunderstood it.
  • Edmunds, on 07/09/2008, -1/+1"Today I traced over England, Scotland and Wales."

    You traced over Ireland too (The one on the left ;-)
  • northernmunky, on 07/09/2008, -0/+5"My companion remarked that this was because in days of yore whoever was drawing the map always made their country look bigger and more important."

    Putting aside describing Great Britain as 'England'...You're certainly right, in the good 'ol days of the British Empire when the British were exploring the world it was they who drew the map as we still see it to this day. Great Britain as seen in the 5th map down was drawn by the British Empire of the time and we put ourselves in the middle - at the top so it looked like a hierarchy, leading the world as we were at the time.

    Greenwich mean time (Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London) (0+ hours) runs though Great Britain making it the worlds 'centre', so as the empire grew, all countries adopted the system.

    Incidentally, I'm not in UK right now, but I am in a highly Americanised country and I'm looking at what is titled a 'New World Map' where the North American continent is on the right hand side and looks rather disproportionately large and everyone else looks rather small indeed. Food for thought?
    • flashingcurser, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2You spelled it wrong, its "Americanized".

      ;-)
  • glimp7, on 07/09/2008, -1/+1Am I just totally missing the point, but can't a satellite solve this problem. Ope! Never mind. They're hovering over Iraq.
  • Viriatus2, on 07/09/2008, -6/+3buried because that's Britain. Dumb americans.
    • northernmunky, on 07/09/2008, -3/+5I was going to say the same thing, but reading the article it doesnt sound like typically Americanised 'dumbed down' (sorry guys but...) language, and seems to have an actual understanding of Europe and the world.... therefore... not American.
    • flashingcurser, on 07/09/2008, -1/+2"Written by Ben Terrett, a Graphic Designer in London."
      and
      "New Zealanders can often play Spot *OUR* Country."
      Emphasis on OUR.

      These are the only references that I could find as to where he is from. Dumb British cannot even read the article without a snide comment about Americans.
  • jamesmcm, on 07/09/2008, -0/+7Filling them all in gives the maximum size not the mean size...
    • SixOrSoPapers, on 07/09/2008, -0/+1Unless one of the outlines is a superset of all others, it gives the union, not the maximum.
  • gafroninja, on 07/09/2008, -0/+1Not sure exactly how big england is? if you take away the top half(Scotland) of Britain. Then take small to medium sized part from the left(Wales), then you could probably work it out from there. It's funny how England has portrayed the whole of Britain to be just England. It's ironic that London is doing the same to the rest of England and the rest of England are all up in arms about it. arf arf
  • Zippo, on 07/09/2008, -0/+4Only a globe can be somewhat accurate... The Earth isn't flat.
  • 4bit, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2I guess I'm not seeing it.

    All the maps have it generally the same size. None of them seem to be used as nautical or navigation style maps.

    And lets just leave the globe/sphere distortion out. I'll just point out that when you take a really big thing and represent it with something only an inch long/wide, you're going to have to 'suggest' a lot. It's in the right place on all of them, and lines up generally with the countries surrounding it.

    Seriously... what are you looking for?
  • veriix, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3Buried for using bad maps. Hell, those don't even warn people where the dragons are.
  • lordblue, on 07/09/2008, -0/+1The UK is not the only place misdrawn most of the time, Africa is usually very undersized in comparison to the rest of the world.
  • ChayD, on 07/09/2008, -0/+1Apropos of this: http://www.boredstop.com/imgp/americanview.gif
  • BenjoBanjo, on 07/09/2008, -0/+0No flat map can correctly show you the sizes of countries relative to each other, if you lay out a globe it does not translate into a rectangle. So countries around the equator appear to look smaller than they actually are and the countries close to the poles appear much bigger than they actually are.
  • jabelar, on 07/09/2008, -0/+0I like the old fashioned maps where South is on top. It really makes you think about how we conceive of our relation to the rest of the world. It seems telling that we like the maps that put us on top and furthermore distort our size to look bigger.
  • mnchrist, on 07/10/2008, -0/+2Look up square miles of England on wikipedia-its compared to about the size of North Carolina. The U.K. itself though is about the size of many western states, maybe even a little smaller.
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