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Microsoft To Let Other Companies Build, Release 360 Consoles

kotaku.com — We'll tell you what's up with Microsoft: new hardware options. It may sound totally insane, but word has it that Microsoft may begin allowing third-party manufacturers to create Xbox 360 hardware. And we're not talking about peripherals, people; we mean hardware that runs 360 game discs created by someone other than Microsoft.

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  • amrush4th, on 06/25/2008, -36/+348A 3rd party could not build them any worse then Microsoft did, so why not.
    • ganus, on 06/25/2008, -5/+70A 3rd party already builds them. Flextronics in China physically builds the Xbox 360, but Microsoft designed the hardware.
      • tripledjr, on 06/26/2008, -0/+10LOL I work at Flextronics in Kanata.
        Same company only we get boring contracts over here. :(
        • dclowd9901, on 06/26/2008, -7/+1Then why are you telling us?
        • tripledjr, on 06/26/2008, -0/+5Don't worry I'm just as confused as you are as to why I'm being dugg up.
        • Smartkidz, on 06/26/2008, -4/+1Why do you have to be such a Douchebag?
      • Tourniquet, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Does this mean that I can build my own xbox now? Maybe they could release a card for my PC that would allow it to play xbox games or something along those lines. I don't see why Microsoft would allow this to happen, seems like they would be losing revenue, unless they would require the third parties to be licensed to sell the systems.
        • MaxD, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Don't Microsoft make bugger all on the console and reap in the money on software sales? If this is the case, don't you think Microsoft would like somebody else to make bugger all on the hardware while they still collect big on the software sales?
    • chukd, on 06/26/2008, -9/+43However, you have compatability issues if they use a slightly different component. Game development becomes harder for games because of a lack of standardization. This is a really bad idea.
      • MalDON, on 06/26/2008, -1/+21It wouldn't be hard for Microsoft to make a set standard of hardware that will work. And if this ever happens, that is likely what they will do.
        • gmiley, on 06/26/2008, -0/+13Exactly, I would assume that MS would have certain requirements and hardware compatibility test procedures. Even if they didn't have those requirements for the hardware manufacturers, they could provide standardized specs for game developers and leave it to the 3rd party hardware developers to make sure their ***** works. If it doesn't no one will buy their product.
        • bigbadgoat, on 06/26/2008, -1/+7It's actually not that hard to pull off as long as every component meets the specifications.

          Does the word "black box" mean anything to you guys?
        • Septimus, on 06/26/2008, -0/+53DO managed it before ***** everything up.
        • BearinG, on 07/10/2008, -0/+1Don't video cards and such have standard chipsets etc... same models, but different...wouldn't this be the same case?
      • transform100, on 06/26/2008, -8/+2I agree, you would have low fps problems out the ass.
      • benologist, on 06/26/2008, -1/+16I think Microsoft might have quite a bit of experience in this area.....
        • Dracusis, on 06/26/2008, -13/+3Yeah, because Windows works... No, I'm sorry, I just can't bring myself to finish that sentence.
        • Speed, on 06/26/2008, -7/+11Dracusis, can you please give me a serious list of problems with Windows? I've been a life long Windows user, and I've had no major problems with it. Oh right, you're just trolling, my bad, sorry.
      • randall82, on 06/26/2008, -3/+12You're acting like people will be building the thing themselves like a PC. Any hardware used to make something would go through testing, any issues would be found and sorted out.
        • DMDekoth, on 06/26/2008, -6/+1But not for all everything. Developers aren't going to test every console - Hardware manufacturers will not test every game.
        • itsthebrod, on 06/26/2008, -0/+9@DMDekoth

          Yeah, and they won't NEED to test every game if they follow strict requirements and standards that Microsoft would obviously put forth. Do you really think they'd ***** up in such an obviously major way? There's no way.
        • gfunk84, on 06/26/2008, -6/+2@itsthebroditsthebrod

          If there are strict requirements and no room for any variance, what the hell is the point of another manufacturer making a box?
        • Dracusis, on 06/26/2008, -2/+2Yeah, because Microsoft did so well when they only had their own hardware to test. Adding in all manner of 3rd party alternatives couldn't possibly introduce any more defects leading to more RROD issues, no, not at all.

          Are you all on smack or something?
        • itsthebrod, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1The point of manufacturing different boxes from different vendors? Hmm let me see... Well the outside form factor could always be changed drastically, from portable versions in cars to heavily themed versions for various games and looks. It would take customization way beyond changeable faceplates.
        • BearinG, on 07/10/2008, -0/+1I am sure the first 360 went through all sorts of strict quality assurance tests too.. Not to say that this would lead to more RROD.. that was just one issue that probably wouldn't happen if they built a new machine..

          But i have to say that they did not do too good the first time around.. the "fix" didn't go too well for everyone either..
      • dinostabOMG, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3I believe the Sega Saturn was already produced in this way. We'll see how it goes, I guess.
      • acegi, on 06/26/2008, -2/+8disagree.

        all dvd player play dvd's just fine.

        no reason why a console can't work. might even drive the price down with competition
      • BearinG, on 07/10/2008, -0/+1@acegi

        Yeah like all Blu-ray players..
    • ExRe, on 06/26/2008, -2/+53Just like a 3rd party couldn't make ***** controllers, right?

      Oh, wait.
      • transform100, on 06/26/2008, -1/+6So true I have yet to find a 3rd party controller that doesn't fall apart in 3 months.
      • agbullet, on 06/26/2008, -3/+1yeah but those controllers *work*...
      • doritostapatio, on 06/26/2008, -7/+1Mad Catz is quality craftsmanship
    • jzuska, on 06/26/2008, -3/+7When can I build one like my PC?
      Stick a nice new Nvidia gigger card in that beast.
      • Dracusis, on 06/26/2008, -5/+17Why would you do that when you could just build... a PC. Then play... PC games.... In higher resolutions, with no frame rate caps... and more mod options.

        The 360 ~is~ the poor mans PC. If you can afford to build your own rig, just build it and play real games, PC games.
        • Speed, on 06/26/2008, -11/+4One major reason: no one makes decent PC games anymore.
        • Speed, on 06/26/2008, -1/+6Ok, for the people digging me down, aside from Crysis and (possibly) Spore, how many good PC games are there/will there be within this year.
        • anothrnbdy, on 06/26/2008, -4/+8Left 4 Dead
          Warhammer Online
          Duke Nukem Forever (speculation puts it at Q4 this year, I'll believe when I see it)
          Farcry 2
          Dark Horizon
          Mercenaries 2
          Fallout 3
          Project Origin
          Prototype
          World in Conflict: Soviet Assault
          World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Litch King (November 2008 according to IGN)
          Mirror's Edge
          Prince of Persia
          Starcraft 2 (December 2008 according to IGN)
          Battlefield Heroes
          Call of Duty: World at War

          And that does not even speak to what is out now.

          tl;dr Real games are on PC.
        • BearinG, on 07/10/2008, -0/+1@anothrnbdy

          Real games are on PC ? All of these are also coming out on consoles. Fine, some games like MMOs belong the PC caus they need 100 shortcuts but seriously.. but that list isn't very convincing that consoles "suck".. not trying to discredit the PC at all.. but your argument wasn't very strong.. games are games.

          Left 4 Dead
          Farcry 2
          Mercenaries 2
          Fallout 3
          Project Origin
          Prototype
          World in Conflict: Soviet Assault
          Mirror's Edge
          Prince of Persia
          Call of Duty: World at War
      • tamuengineer, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2I like consoles because you don't have to build them like a PC. I like to be able to buy one and know for sure that it will play EVERY game flawlessly (or at least as well as the developers coded them).
      • ericrous, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1As a Guatemalan who thinks he's black, I resent your use of the derogatory term "gigger." Consider yourself reported to the political correctness cops, buddy!
    • MrSkrilla, on 06/26/2008, -8/+3Just like this is just a rumor, there is no way MSFT will actually do this.
      • RiverBelow, on 06/26/2008, -1/+6buried for using stock name.
        • Speed, on 06/26/2008, -1/+2And the people who always say AAPL get dugg for using stock name... Interesting...
        • DickInyerhole, on 06/26/2008, -1/+2buried for proving a point towards digg's bias and group thinking mentality.
        • Speed, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2Buried for burying my while admitting I made a decent point. Damn vicious cycles.
    • inajeep, on 06/26/2008, -1/+5Oh yes they could.
    • TommyHigh, on 06/26/2008, -6/+1PC's got away with this because they were never reliable. Mac's tried it, and pissed of basically everyone who brought one.
      Consoles have a reputation for being fairly reliable with a standardized hardware config, take that away.. and it all goes to hell...
      • Dracusis, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3Next time you post try not to swallow a gallon of LSD first, people might actually be able to understand you.

        Or better yet, drink two gallons, maybe you'll keel over and we'll be rid of your witless prattle.
        • anothrnbdy, on 06/26/2008, -0/+0Dude, could you imagine the trip you would get form that? Stuff legends are born from.
        • tripledjr, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1easy tiger
    • Darksider, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3Microsoft actually allowing 3rd Party companies to do what!!!!! I'll believe it when Balmer backflips on stage after he says it. :)
  • kingv, on 06/25/2008, -41/+6WTF Microsoft!? Can they do anything right?
    • ConfusedCartman, on 06/25/2008, -6/+32In my opinion, this could be one of the best decisions for gamers. It seems odd that a money-hog like Microsoft would be the first to do it, but I certainly wouldn't mind. It opens up a multitude of possibilities.
      • toxicityj, on 06/26/2008, -1/+9MS might enjoy their money, but they do seem to do a really good job with their gaming stuff.
        • anothrnbdy, on 06/26/2008, -4/+0Meh. 360 is just a good budget PC. XBL is a scam (same service offered by several PC apps, but with dedicated servers, for free). The only reason I bought one is because some developers I like only develop for consoles. Which is a shame, really.
      • tamuengineer, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Multitude of possibilities? The new hardware could not take advantage of being more powerful because developers would be unwilling to alienate the already large install base that exists. The hardware would likely not be much, if any, cheaper. Do we really even want a console made cheaper than the 360 already is? The only thing I see coming from this would be the potential ability for people to copy/steal games by taking advantage of some manufacturers shortcut.
    • Scott2, on 06/26/2008, -4/+3Funny that you say that. This exact scheme worked great for Windows.
      • Elranzer, on 06/26/2008, -0/+4Apples to Oranges.

        The only two consoles who tried this business model were 3D0 and CD-i...
    • Tenlow, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2This will do several things: Increase competition for one, which will lead to more consoles in more homes. That will lead to more software sold, which makes more money, as the games have a much higher profit margin. It makes complete sense in every way.
      • vanimal, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1It doesn't make sense in any way. Microsoft would have to stop selling their consoles at a loss in order to make it attractive for competitors to enter the market. The competitors would also have to add in some money for profit because they wouldn't have the luxury of making money from game sales. Each company would be making fewer, so the per unit cost would probably increase. On top of that, it would be very difficult to compete with an established product from a big name like Microsoft.
  • dioxys, on 06/25/2008, -4/+104Absolute killer idea! Make 3rd party to get the hardware design right and maybe even get them to lower the price. So people complaining about the actual look of the console or the performance up to them selves!
    • charlescheese, on 06/25/2008, -9/+28Or how about Sony makes a PS3 that plays XBox games? Why not?
      • WiseWeasel, on 06/25/2008, -1/+33Because Sony would perform seppuku before agreeing to license the XBox OS for the PS3... Remember, Sony makes money on game licenses, not on the console.
      • ConfusedCartman, on 06/26/2008, -9/+13Based on your suggestion, I can assume you've never used PSN. Anyone who knows how bad it is compared to Xbox Live would agree that if Xbox Live went away, so would most of the support for the Xbox 360.
        • Dracusis, on 06/26/2008, -5/+4When was the last time you used a PS3?

          The store is now way better than the 360 marketplace and I've no doubt the PSN updates will improve things way beyond what the 360 offers, and it'll be free.
        • theaceoffire, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1If having your console explode/melt is not enough to kill support, almost nothing is.
        • BearinG, on 07/10/2008, -0/+1I agree the store "looks" better... except the store is just that, a store.. is it really that important in the end?
      • Tahiri, on 06/26/2008, -8/+3I use PSN on a regular basis, used to use XBOX Live, but Live has inferior in-game performance due to using peer to peer whereas PSN uses dedicated servers. Live doesn't have enough functionality to warrant inferior games and the cost
        • Syphon8, on 06/26/2008, -2/+6Except the games are vastly superior?
        • ic0n, on 06/26/2008, -1/+2PS3's user base is much lower than the xbox 360's. I don't think Sony would be willing to continue to offer free services like PSN on dedicated servers if they had as much people on their platform. The costs to maintain such servers would be costly and the potential profits from a paid online service is too good to pass up.

          Also, how do you know if live uses p2p technology? (honest question)
        • anothrnbdy, on 06/26/2008, -1/+2If that were even remotely true, then Steam and several other PC apps would be pay to play. But they're not. So why is XBL worth paying a sub for?

          Pro tip: its not.
        • Jellyhead365, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1But servers for games like CS:S and other Steam games are paid for by clans etc.
        • RonBurgundy76, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3Pro tip: People who still use 'Pro tip:' are assholes.
        • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1@icOn:
          Yeah you are going to play everyone on Live just like I'm going to play everyone on PSN.
          And yes Live uses ***** P2P hosting, thats why when someone quits in Halo 3 you have to wait a minute. The particular person that quit was the host, and Halo 3 is setup (unlike CoD4) to change the host. Don't ***** talk about PSN Vs. Live if you don't know anything on how it works.

          @Jellyhead365:
          If I could host my own servers for my favorite PS3 games I would.
    • HolyMan28, on 06/26/2008, -0/+6It's going to be Hacker Heaven though.. oh well. Might be fun actually.
      • drexl, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Already is.....xbox-scene.com! Some nice homebrew apps etc...
  • blurrie, on 06/25/2008, -11/+25tivo 360 hd!
    • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -10/+12http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayTV
      PS3 TiVo already almost out.
      • WaxenPith, on 06/26/2008, -10/+5why the ***** are you digging him down?

        2 years ago the major nelson podcast announced that the 360 will be farmed out to 3rd parties for use as a SET TOP BOX

        I seen this one coming, folks.
    • shanos, on 06/26/2008, -11/+3Apple TV 360 lol
    • BurgerDST, on 06/27/2008, -0/+1Sign me up for the wireless N 1 TB HD Tivo with a blue ray.
  • burchie2, on 06/25/2008, -13/+155So then microsoft becomes the preferred choice of game software basically, like windows...
    • kelly, on 06/26/2008, -10/+5Your conveniently forgetting that Microsoft's dominance was not achieved by being "open" but rather anticompetitive and illegal.
      • chillypacman, on 06/26/2008, -2/+11If anti-comeptitive means bundling a web browser for free with the OS (back then this waas a big deal) then too bad for the competition.

        Of course with the success of firefox it has become plainly clear that people will actively hunt down and download good software if they can find it..
      • orlyfactor, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2QQ more.
      • Ymeg, on 06/26/2008, -1/+2These anti-market lawsuits are pure bs.
    • Dracusis, on 06/26/2008, -7/+2Yeah, digg bruchie2 up, because we all know how well DirectX 10 worked out, it runs like a dream on XP, oh wait, I mean it runs like a dream on Vista... well, when you can get it to run and if you ignore the fact that DirectX 9 can do 99% of DirectX 10....

      Hmmm... someone please tell me again why we want Microsoft to have anything to do with gaming?
      • Speed, on 06/26/2008, -2/+5Aside from the fact that the Xbox 360 controller is a hell of a lot better than the PS3 controllers, and the 360 has much better games?
    • Julik, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Similar to VHS being made by everyone and BETA being Sony only back in the day. The price to buy a VCR was cheaper so more people got them, the more people who have one the more that buy VHS tapes... so the movie companies supported VHS more than BETA and VHS won.

      This is a little similar... if you can have a DVD player / 360 player for cheap why not do it. Game companies want to sell their stuff to the biggest audience... or how they can make the most money. Sony and Microsoft try to pay companies a lot of money to make games only for their console to get more people buying their console over the other. Companies agree to this because the money they get from one of those companies makes up for how much they could get selling the game on both consoles. If the competing company gets a much bigger market share it will be very difficult to keep games only to your console, and would cost much more.
  • RolltheStampede, on 06/25/2008, -3/+273so a Madcats 360 for 100 bucks less that will break even faster?
  • bigmuffpi, on 06/25/2008, -9/+145So it'd be like a PC.. I kinda like that concept.
    • speakafreaka, on 06/26/2008, -18/+7I dont.. It brings the system requirements ***** back to the console world... which is the reason i stopped pc gaming.

      Its nice popping a game in the slot, hitting play and seeing it exactly how the developer intended, I dont want to have to keep upgrading the videocard every year for the cost of a console
      • Scrappy1850, on 06/26/2008, -0/+20the 360 specs have already been set. if a developer makes a game it has to run on the original 360.
    • BearinG, on 07/10/2008, -0/+1Its already is a PC.
  • CollapseControl, on 06/25/2008, -20/+6We all know that the Hardware has its problems and the Software is where it shines, so it seems like a great idea.

    In retrospect, I just don't like how MS decided to make the 360 (Xbox 2) more "pretty" than the Xbox 1. I never had a problem with that 8lb beast for all those years, and that is when I would travel with the console taking it to friends houses all over the place to get LAN games going. I guess MS took it to heart when everyone made fun of the Xbox looks, so they decided to take the power supply out and make it slimmer. I think that is the whole problem.
    • WaxenPith, on 06/26/2008, -3/+1Kinda like how River Cuomo got butthurt because everybody said Pinkerton sucked and now he pumps out ***** album after ***** album.
      • drdave1114, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1when did it become time for vague music references? As long as were doing it, well.....

        "Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna turn around, and hurt you....."
  • Innisskillin, on 06/25/2008, -32/+2181.) This move sways the console wars in MS favor.
    2.) Sony and Nintendo would be forced into doing the same thing.
    3.) Focus changes from hardware to software.
    4.) We get better games and (hopefully) better hardware.
    5.) Gamers win!
    • Narcowski, on 06/25/2008, -39/+2Gamers win eventually, but having MS in the lead for even a short time likely isn't a good idea. We all know that they care about nothing but money.
      • CollapseControl, on 06/25/2008, -6/+52Oh yeah, that's right, no other company is out to make money, just Microsoft.

        What a dumb comment, *****.
      • kinseyincanada, on 06/25/2008, -1/+30cause you know that Sony and Nintendo only care about the people
      • randall82, on 06/26/2008, -2/+8so the only company that actually built a gaming community (LIVE) is all about the money?
        • metaliq, on 06/26/2008, -3/+3I dunno. Charging for it?

          Just a thought.
        • anothrnbdy, on 06/26/2008, -2/+1I'm going to assume you meant *console* gaming community.
      • Syphon8, on 06/26/2008, -2/+1Because it's not like Microsoft was winning for 2 years and is in a close second now or anythnig.
      • Narcowski, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1Good point Collapse... I am indeed a moron.
    • Zettabyte, on 06/25/2008, -7/+24It's brilliant idea. It's like graphics cards industry.
      • BearinG, on 07/10/2008, -0/+1Yeah like the way all video cards with the same chipset are equal
    • dumpyhumpy, on 06/26/2008, -11/+446.) ????
      7.) Profit!!
    • Infidelcastr0, on 06/26/2008, -14/+2536. Soon people will be able to build their own consoles.
      7. Non-game software becomes more prevalent for consoles.
      8. Consoles become PCs
      9. People realize PCs were better to begin with.
      • Dustmuffins, on 06/26/2008, -1/+21amen
      • Caviarmy, on 06/26/2008, -0/+15BEHOLD! THE PC-GAMING MASTER RACE!
      • tapo, on 06/26/2008, -1/+26The difference between an open platform console (Like this Xbox, or the 3DO) and the PC is the fact that the hardware is standardized. This is something the PC struggles with, as any given Xbox 360 will run any Xbox 360 game for its 5-7 year life. The PC is evolving continuously, which allows for better graphics, but a given computer can only be considered 'top of the line' and capable of running the latest games for 1-3 years, depending on when you built it, and where the industry's headed.
        • SOS84, on 06/26/2008, -13/+8Don't you mean 6 to 9 month life for a 360?
        • dagamer34, on 06/26/2008, -4/+2For one thing, Crysis would never be accepted for licensing on a console the way it plays on typical PC hardware. I do not welcome our new 3rd party console hardware overlords.
        • Elranzer, on 06/26/2008, -3/+3"The difference between an open platform console (Like this Xbox, or the 3DO) and the PC is the fact that the hardware is standardized."

          So basically... it's a Mac?
        • tapo, on 06/26/2008, -0/+5You can't really consider Macs standardized. They have a more limited set of components that make it easier to deal with compatibility issues, but there's still vast differences in what the hardware is capable of. A Macbook with an Intel GMA graphics card isn't even close to the power of the high end Mac Pro workstations, for instance. With a console platform, all hardware is exactly the same.
        • 965473, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3I think you mean a 'top of the line' computer will only be 'top of the line' for a month or two
      • ProKid, on 06/26/2008, -0/+4I had to digg that one. I prefer consoles to pc, but that was a good one.
      • HigherLogic, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2Except for most people can't build/order a PC that they can hookup to their HDTV and interact with games using a controller. I love PC games, but it lacks a lot of features that you get in a console, e.g. I can easily pull my HD off my Xbox and use it elsewhere, doing that with a PC is, well, a challenge to say the least.
        • anothrnbdy, on 06/26/2008, -3/+0Then use an external drive. Or a USB drive. Its not like these things are expensive anymore.
        • MaxD, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1I thought the XBox HDDs were non standard? (XBox360 at least, perhaps not standard XBox??)
        • BearinG, on 07/10/2008, -0/+1Those aren't really hard to do on the PC.. Most people have wireless keyboards and mouses, and DVI-HDMI adapter or cable costs 5-10$. The 360 controller works on the PC and there's alternatives.

          The only nuisance i find with the PC is installing games, (i know in the end its faster), updating drivers, patching the game, tweaking the graphics...

          My PS3 kinda annoys me for that, installing MGS4 just to play, then more installs as the story goes on.. then another install to play online. Even the PC isn't that bad..
      • acegi, on 06/26/2008, -4/+0unlikely.

        you don't see people building a dvd player or a fridge by themselves...
    • mdoom, on 06/26/2008, -3/+9Does make sense, and could be really good. but I dont agree entirely with number 2. Either sony or nintendo could stay more traditional with their business model, and may end up being just as successful and profitable.

      example, Apple.
      • doctordbx, on 06/26/2008, -1/+15There is more software available for the 360 than Apple.
        • B1663r, on 06/26/2008, -1/+15And Microsoft sells more Xbox 360's than Apple does Macintosh computers....
    • ExRe, on 06/26/2008, -2/+16.) KB & M support?

      Instabuy!
      • davidrools, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1you can buy an adapter for the xbox...but you'd probably get flamed to hell for using it on xbl
        • orlyfactor, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2yeah, but playing an FPS with KB & M >>>>> a stupid ***** controller any day.
        • Darkangel754, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1It doesn't work well for all games though and I heard it had issues because of the joy sticks "dead zone"
        • ExRe, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1The only adapters available now suck major ass and are expensive as hell.
      • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -2/+1Its not going to have instant K/M support for games. In fact, the 360 already has K/M support.
    • eryximachus, on 06/26/2008, -12/+17Ridiculous. Sega, Nintendo, and 3DO all tried this in the 1990s.

      In short - this is a last ditch effort to save the Xbox360 format after Microsoft has come to realize they just can't engineer hardware.
      • SOS84, on 06/26/2008, -10/+4There will not be another xbox. The bean counters at microsoft are realizing that the game division has no hope of ever turning a profit. And before any of the morons out there cite some unqualified statistic saying they have, they haven't. The RROD ensured that they will not turn a profit during this generation of hardware when you add associated costs to the bottom line. Is the games division going to get a chance at going 0 for 3 and striking out or will they pull the plug after this generation. Most people in the know seem to think the later is more likely.
        • natenovs, on 06/26/2008, -2/+4@SOS84: except for last quarter, when they turned a profit....
      • grumpyrain, on 06/26/2008, -3/+5While I don't necessarily disagree with your first point, Microsoft do make some good hardware. The 360 may not be a masterpiece of engineering, but I have never had problems with any of their mice. Their core business success is software. It would not surprise me to see PC companies like Dell and HP bring out XBox 360 compatible PCs. The more I think about it, the cleverer it seems. Eventually the 360 level hardware will be close to commodity PC prices. What better way to get games manufacturers to commit to the 360 and PC platforms than to tell them the same code will run equally well on both?
        • RyeBrye, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3The reason you haven't had a problem with any of their mice is simple. THEY DON'T MAKE THEM. They license their name to be placed on them. Kind of like Yahoo was licensing its brand to be put on radios and crap a while ago.
        • JigoroKano, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1Microsoft simply bought an already good peripheral company to make their mice, which I agree are fabulous.

          That would be like Microsoft buying Nintendo to make their consoles.
    • TreatsTheBear, on 06/26/2008, -1/+9Why would Sony and Nintendo be forced to do the same thing? Their hardware works.
      • Syphon8, on 06/26/2008, -8/+3Except Sony's. Which doesn't.
      • ShugNinx21, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1I think you're missing the point.

        Microsoft allows other companies to build 360s by getting paid for the licensing of the hardware. They also get licensing money for the OS that runs on it as well as the subscription fees for XBL accounts. Since they don't make much money on the Hardware and traditionally lose money on it in the beginning, they aren't really losing out.

        The companies that pay for hardware licensing have to follow the strict specifications of a 360 so that all xbox games will run on it regardless of manufacturer. They might add other abilities on their own to make it special from the rest but you get the picture.

        Gamers get a myriad of choices and ultimately lower priced consoles due to the competition between the hardware manufacturers. Microsoft possibly becomes the lleader in consoles without the pesky hassle of manufacturing the Hardware itself al la Windows/PC relationship.
    • Elranzer, on 06/26/2008, -1/+42.) Sony and Nintendo would be forced into doing the same thing.

      I wonder if this would potentially lead to a Nintendo/Sony/Xbox all-in-one box...?
      • Symbolism, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1doubtful, last I checked blu ray couldn't read hd-dvds.
        • smoger, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1..combo drive

          ..but xbox games are dvd's anyway, not hd-dvd's.
    • smoger, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1..yup.. because nintendo and sega were forced to do that when the 3do came out.... oh, wait.
  • stung47000, on 06/25/2008, -1/+42I wouldn't be surprised if MS did this from the get-go with the next xbox (720 or whatever) in a few years too. Especially if this strategy works out well with the 360.
    • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -13/+4Its not happening.
      • whyufail, on 06/26/2008, -1/+9No he's right. If you've read around, IF there is going to be another generation of consoles, it will be far far off. The overhead for consoles is huge. Neither Sony or Microsoft are going to be looking forward to taking massive losses on unit sales again any time in the near future. If they want to make another one, they're going to need to wait until the technology to produce a superior one becomes cheaper rather than producing it anyway and eating the cost to be made up in software sales.
        • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -7/+1If I've read around?

          I guarantee you I've read around, and I can also guarantee there will be another console generation.
        • SOS84, on 06/26/2008, -6/+2There will be another console generation and Sony will likely win it. The Cell is scalable into the next generation. What most people don't understand is that Sony has always planned on covering its development costs over two generations. The question is, will Nintendo be able to work some magic so that Sony has some much needed competition because Microsoft will likely sit this round out.
        • username9000, on 06/26/2008, -1/+7@SOS. The cell may be scalable (with major constrictions), but the crappy geforce video chip isn't.
      • username9000, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Its not not happening either. this is pure rumor. It does make some sense when you consider a MS person (it was on IGN I forgot who it is was) said something about the next xbox being purely digital or something to that effect. Maybe MS will provide the OS to hardware mfrs.
        I doubt it, but its possible.
        • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1I don't see why not for the next xbox, but as far as the 360 is concerned, its not happening.
        • username9000, on 06/26/2008, -1/+2we'll see in when E3 comes around. I won't be surprised one bit to see something like a samsung/MS deal. That would also allow for a bluray player in the 360 (a nice workaround for MS). We'll see. Any way you slice it, MS wins and so do consumers. Looks like there will also be a price drop this E3 as well.
          $299.00 xbox pro anyone? yes, everyone.
    • Darkangel754, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2maybe they'd even offer upgrades for the old xbox 360 models
  • bickman2k, on 06/25/2008, -12/+2Horrible idea! Anyone remember how well that idea panned out for the 3DO? If they did it now, it is essentially dead technology because they are more likely than not already working on the 360 successor. If they did it next-gen, I forsee disaster unless it is a PC add-on drive that allows 360 "emulation" in Windows.
  • bubbakja, on 06/25/2008, -9/+17Why not let Sony build the console and let Microsoft write the OS ? This is the future of consoles, one basic chipset and manufacturers adding functionality as they want, just like DVD players.
    • WiseWeasel, on 06/25/2008, -0/+26Because Sony thinks they can make more money without MS.
      • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -0/+6And Microsoft thinks the same, otherwise Microsoft Game Studio games would have been released on the PS2 or PS3 all along
      • akav0id, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1Who provides the operating systems for Sony Laptops?
        Sony and Microsoft have been working together for years
        • Balanced, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2Sony is a very large company. If we're going with the 'Corporation as a person" fiction that the legal system often uses, it has split personalities that don't communicate between themselves. The media branch doesn't talk to the home electronics branch which doesn't talk to the video game branch which doesn't talk to the car audio branch which doesn't talk to the laptop branch.
    • masamunecyrus, on 06/26/2008, -4/+16And because Sony has an unhealthy fetish with trying to shaft competition by making other formats, always very Sony-exclusive and closed, and forcing anyone who buys their products into using them.

      Think Microsoft, circa 1990's.
      • Lunarbunny, on 06/26/2008, -3/+4I think Apple prior to re-Jobs-ing is a better description.
      • celkin, on 06/26/2008, -8/+5Then why hasn't Sony made its own OS for their Vaio laptops?
        • ExRe, on 06/26/2008, -1/+171. Too expensive.
          2. 90% of consumers will not buy a PC without a Microsoft OS.
      • tapo, on 06/26/2008, -1/+2It's mostly because Sony makes money off of the platform, not the hardware, which it sells at a loss. If Sony began to sell Xbox compatible hardware, the price would be inflated by a few hundred dollars, as would the price for accessories.

        And Microsoft still tries to shaft competition by making closed formats, thus the whole OOXML scandal.
      • bigbadgoat, on 06/26/2008, -6/+10Then why doesn't the PS3 force users to buy proprietary hard drives if they want to upgrade?
        or proprietary memory cards?
        or proprietary cameras?
        or proprietary bluetooth headsets?
        or proprietary microphones?
        why can PS3 owners install a seperate operating system on their PS3?

        Good to know they haven't changed their ways and only make their devices compatible with other Sony devices.

        moron.
        • RiverBelow, on 06/26/2008, -2/+11He said formats, not devices *****.

          Microsoft and Sony are the same anyways, they all want your money.
        • bigbadgoat, on 06/26/2008, -5/+4Formats?

          Ohh so that's why the PS3 only plays Sony's proprietary Atrac music file format , and not MP3, MP4, WAV and WMA.

          That's why it only plays Sony-backed Blu-ray discs, and not DVDs, and wont play video files from data discs and memory cards that are MPEG-4, H.264, MP4, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, AVI, AVCHD, DivX, WMV and VC-1 formats.

          Proprietary my ass. The PS3 is about as open as a console can get without allowing users to play pirated games, and even then it can be pulled off with some PSN games.
        • BearinG, on 07/10/2008, -0/+1-Yeah and games require you to install them first, so much for those with 20gb HDD. So you will NEED a bigger harddrive at one point. At least you can use any hdd but its almost not optional in the end.

          -You have a powerful HD game console and blu-ray disc player but they don't include any cables that allow you to display HD out of the box. You need to buy an HDMI cable or component (proprietary adapter).

          -They don't even include an Infrared receiver to use universal remotes so you need to buy they're bluetooth remote or use the controller for movie controls. They give you a usb cable to charge your controller but its freaking 3 feet long so basically you need to get an extension if you want to play while it charges or sit at 3 feet from the screen.

          -There's also no battery pack, so when you're controller batteries get old, you can't just go and buy a battery pack or just use rechargeables, you need to buy a new controller or leave it plugged in..

          -Bluetooth headset? not forced but still "specific". You can use any cordless phone with mini jack on the 360 even though one is included in the box.

          Not saying the 360 is perfect, but the ps3 definitely isn't either.. they don't force you to buy their stuff.. they just force you to buy stuff period... they are both the same.
    • MalDON, on 06/26/2008, -6/+5***** that, I would not buy a sony make xbox.
      • polygons, on 06/26/2008, -6/+6Why not? Sony making the 360 may solve the RRoD.
        • bigbadgoat, on 06/26/2008, -3/+1You know, I'd say microsoft rushing to get the xbox 360 out a year ahead of the PS3 caused the whole RRoD issue, so could be an indirect cause.
  • HOTM, on 06/25/2008, -3/+25I'm confused as to how this would be a good idea, someone please explain.

    If this happens, what would be different between the consoles, would the innards be exactly the same? Would only the case and HDD size be different? If that's what is happening, then what is the point? Cause they can't make it that each console has a different feature or something....but if they do, that would be ridiculous.

    If this is true, I just want to see what they can do with this.
    • ChocChunkOaties, on 06/25/2008, -1/+8This seems the logical thing for MS to do, the way i see this is that MS have forked out millions on fixing these 360s. but big manufacturers with $ signs for eyes want a slice of their sales profit and a slice of the MS pie. MS outsource the manufacturing costs to other companies this then gives MS a chance for Redmond to stop taking the flack on hardware issues and possibly to give them a better chance to work on the next console. Whilst MS continue to reap the money from licencing.
      Plus, it's all about reaching people who haven't yet bought one or people who may have bought one but it broke and decided to get a PS3 instead. I highly doubt they will fix the core issues though that cause them to break whilst people who have steered clear of them may reconsider if they knew it wasn't being built by MS. it's a win win situation.
      I don't think the innards will change all that much or featurelists (at all). maybe other companies will cut corners or be able to source the components cheaper...
      • HOTM, on 06/25/2008, -2/+1Hm. I think I still would prefer an Official Microsoft Xbox 360. That way I know everything will always work with it....because I can see compatibility problems coming if this happens.

        I do think this is a neat idea, I'm just trying hard to think of reasons why.

        I mean imagine getting a $1000 bundle from dell, with a computer that is perfect for everything but gaming with onboard graphics and all, and then a Dell branded 360. You get two systems that are perfect for what they will do. I know this is said all the time, but I think something like this will put a nail in the coffin of PC gaming.

        All that is left if this happens is Mod Support and Keyboard/Mouse support. If this are put into the next gen as a requirement, PC gaming is dead.
        • ConfusedCartman, on 06/25/2008, -0/+3If Microsoft has to compete with 3rd parties, and a 3rd party releases a 360 that does the same stuff Microsoft's does, but it's faster/more reliable, ect., that causes Microsoft to try to improve their own console. Competition is what drives innovation.
        • IronPwnage, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2If all of that does happen, Pc gaming won't die, just evolve.
        • SuicideMouse, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1For ***** sake, Consoles are just game oriented PCs!
          PC gaming is not going to die because of consoles. PCs are better, customizable and up to date consoles and can be used for a ***** load of other things.

          Not to mention that something very obvious seems to have whipped past your eyes, the PS3 DOES support keyboards and mice AND installing other operating systems. While that may not be "Mod Support" it's still a jump.

          Anyways, as much as I wish Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo would open up their systems on purpose and allow you to do whatever the ***** you want with the firmware, they would have a ***** hard time doing so. They want you to buy games and modding their console would let you copy them even though that's not why some of us want modded consoles. They would also be taking heat from all of their developers for this reason. Regulating online cheating would become a ***** hassle as well. There are too many reasons.

          So even though I wish they would just let us, I highly doubt they'll do so. Since this is the case, just find your own way to mod the consoles you want to, it's worked for my Xbox, 360, DS and PSP (All the consoles I've bothered to mod) so it can for your's too probably.
      • HOTM, on 06/25/2008, -0/+4Not really. Microsoft will still make money on every console for licensing fees. They are creating competition with themselves, but in the end all the money goes to them.
        • ConfusedCartman, on 06/25/2008, -0/+1It's about more than money in this case, though. Microsoft wouldn't look very good if the best 360 manufacturer was a different company. If this actually happens, the only outcome is more choice. Even if Microsoft is the clear winner, I'd still love to see what other companies could do.
    • illt, on 06/26/2008, -2/+14by that logic, why are there 100s of different dvd players, or hd players.

      you'll have 3rd party xbox's with built in wireless, gigabit lan, blue ray drives, and hopefully dual booting to some linux os
    • ExRe, on 06/26/2008, -1/+61. Microsoft has to do less work and can make as good (or perhaps better) profit.
      2. Better hardware implemented (the main circuit boards probably can not change much or at all, but they could have better DVD drives, a BR-D drive, bigger/faster hard drives, integration of the power supply in a nice package, better cooling, etc)
    • TypeEE, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Dude, there is a spec requirement by MS. It's not like a PC when end user would build whatever they want.
  • BoonTobias, on 06/25/2008, -15/+2let other companies build xbox
    let other companies share the headache caused by rrod
    ????
    mighty profit!

    • WiseWeasel, on 06/25/2008, -1/+10RROD is a hardware failure caused by poor temperature management. Any manufacturer worth their salt will be able to avoid it.
    • estvir, on 06/25/2008, -6/+5The flaw relating to the RRoD was fixed last year.
      • MattBot5000, on 06/26/2008, -2/+2It was reduced, not fixed. I had a 45 nm xbox and it red ringed on me after a couple months.
      • bigbadgoat, on 06/26/2008, -2/+2Lets see some numbers from a reputable source there estvir.

        You keep saying the RRoD issue is fixed, but you refuse to provide any evidence besides some anecdotal *****.
        • estvir, on 06/26/2008, -3/+2I don't keep saying that the RRoD issue is fixed, I've probably said it a whole 5 times out of my many comments on Digg.

          Provide a source? Go look up any articles about the revisions to the hardware, MS admitting the problem was with their own designing of the chip, etc.

          Oh, and speaking of sources, that's laughable considering the 'sources' people use against Microsoft like polls on forums.
        • bigbadgoat, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1Funny, the retailers and repair centers haven't given any indication that the failure rate has decreased.

          FYI: The RRoD issue has nothing to do with the design any one chip. It has to do with horrible heat dissipation, and it's piss-poor methods of seating the chip in the mother board. The chip gets hot (completely normal, however, with proper ventilation, is easily remedied), it warps the mother board (which is directly related to how the chip is seated in the mother board), it continues to get hot until it melts the solder which connects the chip's pins to the board. Since the chip is not seated, and there's nothing holding the pins to the board, one or many of the pins become detached, and hence the RRoD.

          This is why the towel trick works. It melts the solder before the board has a chance to warp, which may allow the chip to seat itself back in the correct position and allow its pins to make the appropriate connection once again.

          The only thing MS has done to remedy the situation thus far, is to add an extra heat sync, which is not necessarily going to do jack ***** for this situation. Sure it might dissipate heat better, but it may not dissipate heat enough to prevent the board from warping and the solder melting. A smaller processor size isn't necessarily going to fix it either, for the same reasons.
  • downlo, on 06/25/2008, -14/+19Come on, did anyone read the article? Does anyone remember the 3DO and CD-i? Does any one remember the Q or Pipen? Aside from the normal responses of 'failed console,' this idea has never panned out and been successful. History has show, time and again that this business model does not work. While a neat idea, the Kotaku mock up is deceptive, indicating some sort of media center convergence device for something that exists in rumor.

    If this does come to pass, I think a re-evaluation of the Microsoft's hardware profits for the 360 is needed.
    • sonicEd, on 06/26/2008, -2/+12What Microsoft hardware profit?
    • Rioracer916, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2The Sega Saturn, although failed due to other reasons, was successful at this strategy.
      • TypeEE, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1Were there more than one saturn console?
    • ShugNinx21, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2I think the difference between the 3DO and the 360 is the fact that the 360 is already an established and accepted console where as the 3DO was shot down as soon as it hit the market. The 3DO was a failure and it had nothing to do with the fact that it wasn't being manufactured by 1 company only.
    • WileEPeyote, on 06/27/2008, -0/+2As sonicEd said they don't make a profit on hardware. This move would be similar to how they got started in the big leagues. They told IBM they didn't want a piece ($) of the hardware, they wanted to license the software to IBM for the machines. Once other companies started making IBM clones, they started licensing on those which translated to some major money.
  • PoopStick, on 06/25/2008, -8/+9Sweet that is good news! more chances to exploit it
  • Christbait, on 06/25/2008, -6/+12Fanboys shouldn't be so quick to get so smartassed in here, unfortunately this could actually put Microsoft in a winning position, big time.
    • WaxenPith, on 06/26/2008, -3/+3Selling BluRay With a 360 instead of a 360 WITH a bluRay drive..

      ***** genius!

      Sell it for cheaper than the price of a PS3 and there you go, Microsoft back in the game, baby!!!!

      This is awesome news.
      • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -3/+1This is a rumor, not news *****.
      • Elranzer, on 06/26/2008, -0/+7Microsoft "back in the game"?? They're still way ahead of the PS3.
    • ExRe, on 06/26/2008, -0/+8Unfortunately?

      It's about damned time we get some innovation in the console arena. At least this will let others do some of the innovation without worrying about modding consoles for resale and having lawsuites or having to build their own console.
    • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -2/+1Maybe if it wasn't just some rumor that was spread as fact on Digg it could help Microsoft.
    • SOS84, on 06/26/2008, -7/+1The 360 has already bowed out. Sony will over take them by year's end and Nintendo already has. The question is, can Nintendo hold of the PS3, the answer is probably not.
  • santasing, on 06/25/2008, -12/+3Good idea. Hardware isn't MS's game anyways. They should concentrate on the software.
    • estvir, on 06/25/2008, -5/+16Microsoft has been known for quality hardware for a ~ decade. They have an excellent reputation with their mice, keyboards, joysticks etc. For mice/keyboards, it's basically either MS or Logitech and between them there /was/ (Not so much now and others are bigger, like Razer) a fierce, quiet competition.

      The thing that marred that reputation was a poor choice in judgement with the X360 and the Internet becoming more filled with moronic, vocal 14 year olds.
      • CalcProgrammer1, on 06/26/2008, -1/+7The current 360's are nice, it was just the original revision (Xenon board) and the second one (Zephyr) that were very poorly built and are almost doomed to fail. I plan on buying a new 360 when the Jasper board releases in a few months because the 65nm chips will produce much less heat and reduce the RRoD even more than the current Falcon board does. Right now I'm playing my Halo 3 on a Xenon console that got the RRoD (was my friend's, he gave it to me after it broke). I have to fix it every week or so (not fun) so that's why I'm going to buy a new one. As for the software, Microsoft is top notch. Xbox 360 has great games, good quality, good graphics, and excellent online. I've never been a Sony person, but I was always into Nintendo. Now that I have a 360, my Wii has been getting covered in dust as I play my 360 instead.
      • santasing, on 06/26/2008, -6/+3:-D Are you serious? You think making good KB/mice is equivalent to being a good hardware maker? They didn't even manufacture their own KB/mice.

        And no, the thing that has ruined that reputation is not 14 yr olds. Its the 3 year old 30% failure rate of their hardware. Don't think that the people digging you up think MS makes good hardware. They are most likely just Xbots.

        KB/mouse indeed. This is getting pathetic.
      • estvir, on 06/26/2008, -1/+2There are very, very, very, very few companies who directly manufacture all their own hardware.

        Logitech is known for good hardware and their main focus is keyboards and mice.

        No, the people who Dugg up my comment are people with the slightest amount of intelligence which is apparently not you.
      • santasing, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1:-D That's called preaching to the choir.

        The people digging you up are the same morons who think its perfectly acceptable for a device to have a 30% failure rate 3 years into production.

        It is kind of pathetic really. Sites like Digg is pretty much the only place where the 360 has some representation left, after being panned every where else for its hardware failures. The 360 has been driven out of Japan and Europe. USA will be following soon. I mean, how much can you depend on the same old bald space marines to save the galaxy or something Microsoft apologists like you are weaned on.
    • ExRe, on 06/26/2008, -2/+3Microsoft hardware is very nice stuff. I am typing on a Microsoft ergonomic keyboard and it is absolutely lovely.

      Logitech has about as good hardware, but their software is worse than Creative's. I don't think I'll ever buy a high end mouse from Logitech again just because of their ***** software (unless you don't need it and the OS figures out what the buttons should do automatically).
      • freshyill, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3When was the last time your keyboard overheated and couldn't turn on again?

        I do agree that MS's keyboards and mice are nice, but it's not even close to a game console. It's like saying if Black and Decker does great things with toaster ovens, imagine what they could do with a computer.

        I also agree that Logitech's software is ***** terrible. I have a Harmony 670 remote, and the software is total crap.
    • SuicideMouse, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2From past experience I would say that Microsoft does make decent hardware, though not at all times, my RRoD 360 that had to get replaced for example.

      It's software that Microsoft isn't very good with, in my opinion of course, though to each his own.
      Though for this I'd be slightly biased because I'm a fan of doing what I want with the software and OS I own, Microsoft doesn't give me that option.
      However if that wasn't the case and I didn't mind the restrictions that still wouldn't falsify the fact that I've never had a PC crash on me as often as when I'm using a PC with a Microsoft OS on it.
  • jacksons98, on 06/25/2008, -8/+88Won't work... Samsung, Panasonic or whoever does this will inevitably charge more for the same console. They won't be willing to take a loss on every unit since they can't recup the losses like MS can on the games.
    • WiseWeasel, on 06/25/2008, -4/+25MS could either subsidize sales of those consoles, or do some kind of revenue sharing deal on game licenses to mitigate that...
      • WaxenPith, on 06/26/2008, -2/+15Bravo!

        I hate how people make some sort of argument or roadblock without being experts on anything.

        There's always more than one way to do things jackson.
    • randall82, on 06/26/2008, -0/+5That's only if they started building them now. If they do this 3-5 years from now, they could make some money on it. People forget there are a lot of people still playing old games, especially younger kids who can't afford to stay up to date in gaming. I always stayed a couple console generations behind as a kid, and back then there's no way I could have afforded the $2000 I've spent on my 360 hardware, games and accessories, not to mention the Wii and PC. My cousin is 13 and he just got a PS2 a couple of years ago, and he can afford to buy games for it because they're so cheap now. I can see a market for this, for the companies that want the money. Microsoft can move on to new consoles and the big bucks, and have a cheap alternative at no cost to themselves for the smaller market.
    • ExRe, on 06/26/2008, -1/+8People will pay more if they think they are getting a better deal.

      Throw in a BR-D drive and a 500GB hdd. A BR-D drive probably costs around $100 in large quantities and a 500GD drive is probably around $50 in large quantities. Both open up lots of possibilities for the X360.

      Would you pay $500 for a 360 with a BR-D drive and 500GB hard drive?
    • zxof, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2the taiwanese pc manufacturers will sell the box with half the price
    • Elranzer, on 06/26/2008, -0/+4By the time this may happen (2009+), the 2005 technology needed to build a 360 should be pretty cheap for any OEM...
    • Dealjobber, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Hasn't Microsoft made a profit from the consoles alone in the last couple quarters?
  • Polyphony, on 06/25/2008, -5/+15The important part about this being a rumor from Quartermann from EGM was conveniently left out of the description...

    I'm not saying I don't trust EGM or Kotaku, I'm just saying that it's important to state that this is a RUMOR. The submission makes it seem like it's a fact.
    • WaxenPith, on 06/26/2008, -10/+2Hahaha look at the nintendo fanboy naysaying already.
      • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -2/+3What the *****?

        Its a goddamn rumor, spread as fact via Digg. The original article even has the damned "?" at the end.
      • freakk123, on 06/26/2008, -3/+2He wasn't naysaying dumbass, simply pointing out relevant information.
      • mrloco, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1obvious troll is obvious
    • Jarett, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2I hear ya! Some submitters have a bad habit of dropping the question mark from the article's title.
  • whiteknives, on 06/25/2008, -13/+5Wow, Microsoft just pulled one HELL of a rabbit out of its hat. It's like they finally figured their ***** out. I'm very impressed.
  • benman587, on 06/25/2008, -3/+18Subby forgot the question mark at the end of the title, but i guess it wouldn't be as dramatic then.
  • NaziHatinChimp, on 06/25/2008, -2/+17Considering that Microsoft and Sony lose money or make little money on the hardware and a lot on the software, it makes sense.
    • TypeEE, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1However, if the profit is too little, there is no incentive for other manufacturer to embed it.
  • sonicEd, on 06/26/2008, -0/+12This is consistent with the way MS likes to work. They really are not too interested in making hardware, only software.
    • eastsoccer19, on 06/26/2008, -1/+2i call ***** lol
      • sovietninja, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2I do too. What about thier line of computer keyboards and mice. Especially the first Intellimouse.
  • mCanada, on 06/26/2008, -0/+8I think it's all about implementation. Fundamentally gamers don't want excessive amounts of ***** when it comes to their end experience. They want to purchase a disc and insert it into a grey box, end of story. This is why Apple has succeeded by controlling all points of contact to the consumer. However, that's not to say that there isn't another model that couldn't work. If some Xbox OS standard is rigidly adhered to by competing companies and thus they get the rights to a nice shiny "works with Xbox360 sticker", you could then see consoles as cheap as the PC market, with potentially the same experience. I mean nowadays an XP box is an XP box as long as you don't go out an buy an extreme POS and so long as MS kept a decent standard...
    • TheClone, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1Consoles as cheap as in the PC market? So they'd be about 2 grand more expensive?

      Consoles are already far cheaper than their PC counterparts...
    • upeneff, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Hopefully it wouldn't be like hte works with Vista stickers, when the computer didn't actually work with vista.
    • solid12345, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1When was the last time you picked up a cheap PC that could run Crysis at 60 FPS.
  • Ockniel, on 06/26/2008, -1/+17So . . could you theoretically put the 360 hardware into the space of a couple cd drives and integrate it with your computer?
    • ExRe, on 06/26/2008, -5/+2Maybe in 10 years. You'd have to redesign the hardware and use smaller chips that produce a lot less heat. Probably not possible (cheaply) with current hardware capabilities.
    • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -5/+2No, you ***** retards. I haven't seen a damn comment in here that made sense. The 360 processor is so different from your PC's processor that you'd have to build you PC around a 360 capable processor for any hope on playing a 360 game on your computer. And, for that to work, it would be a PPC-based processor, something Microsoft Windows will not work on nicely if at all, and I highly doubt Microsoft wouldn't release any form of software that you can put on your computer to run 360 games unless it was Windows.
      • Joe11Blue, on 06/26/2008, -1/+0Idiot. Ever hear of WIndow's NT? The same support is built into Window's XP.
        • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1Go find me a ***** PPC processor running Windows XP as good as a i386. Go. Right now.

          ***** retard.
      • ufee, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1Dude, it wouldn't be the primary processor of the system. He's saying that it could be an internal addon. A GPU, for example, doesn't share any similarities with an x86 processor either, but it works fine as a coprocessor. This would be the same thing, only with would fit into your cd tray. Just because the architecture is different doesn't mean the hardware can't communicate.

        Anyways, it still isn't too feasible, as there is quite a bit of hardware in a 360. Too much to fit into such a small space. Perhaps certain things, like the HDD, could be shared with the host computer, but I still doubt that a 360 could be shrunk down too much, especially in 2008.
    • SOS84, on 06/26/2008, -1/+6With the right hardware, you can run a virtual 360 on a PC right now. The hacked software already exists.
      • joper90, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2whats it called? and you sure you just don't mean a dev kit.
      • trofeo, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3So where might we find the software to do this? I'm finding it hard to believe as the PCSX2 Playstation 2 emulator has only recently reached a stage where it actually works with a significant number of games.
    • Ramenboy005, on 06/29/2008, -0/+2NO BECUASE UR COMPUTER HAS TO MANY THETANS IN IT
  • eliot2000, on 06/26/2008, -8/+3WiiSIXTY FTW!
  • Lane, on 06/26/2008, -3/+8Id love to buy a xbox pc card. I mean hell it's only a matter of time before emulators are out anyway. Why not just give in and make $100 off of a pci card and enjoy a suddenly larger consumer base?
    • PainToad, on 06/26/2008, -1/+12There will not be a 360 emulator anytime soon, christ there isn't even a decent orginal xbox emulator yet.

      The 360 uses a PPC chip, emulating such a powerfull CPU will need the power i bet we won't see for 5 years plus
      • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -1/+9Oh my god. Thank you. You know something unlike everyone else here. Goddamn people are dumb. Can you help me out here on these other comments that people think that 360 games will run on their computers?


        360 Processor: CPU
        3.2 GHz PPC Tri-Core Xenon
        • Joe11Blue, on 06/26/2008, -1/+0You're the same guy that wasn't even aware that Window's XP will run on a PPC.
        • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1Windows XP won't run on a PPC as well as a i386, and if your emulating a 360, it has to run pure.

          Go find me a XP machine running on PPC well. No lag, can do everything as on a i386.
      • SOS84, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3The hardware already exists and is surprising cheap. The 360 is not as powerful as you think. It is basically a couple of power pc chips and an ATI x1600 graphics card (with a few changes in how it processes instructions so that it can use its pixel pipelines as stream processors).
    • vtnerd, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3lol, who would buy that?

      If the rest of your computer is up to snuff enough to play games then why give MS $100 to play games that you can already buy for PC?

      Better yet, why give $100 to MS so that you can continue to pay them a monthly fee to play online when the same games are available on the PC without the monthly fee?

      I'm just saying, I don't think there will be any kind of demand for such a thing. Plus MS would have to solve the issue of mouse + keyboard players totally dominating players who are trying to use the console controller. I guess they could try to force everyone to use the controller, but you know someone would hack that into pieces and you'd have to get a mouse + keyboard and a PC or you'd get totally destroyed.

      And then there's the issue of hacking/cheating that is a rampant part of PC online gaming. Is MS going to get Punkbuster support for the PC card versions of it's games?

      Just saying, there are a lot of challenges to be overcome for this to be possible......
    • TypeEE, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1I remember 3DO did that once and it failed.
  • drjekelmrhyde, on 06/26/2008, -3/+18This could be the sign of the first 3rd party Xbox360 with Blu-Ray and with a standard HDD
    • ExRe, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2Put in your own SATA hdd FTW. It won't be long before 1TB drives are $100, and 500GB drives are down to about $60 (when you find a good deal).
    • eastsoccer19, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1microsoft would never let it happen except on pc but thats different
  • phanfo, on 06/26/2008, -0/+10This makes perfect sense to do so since Microsoft makes it money off the games and not the units, they even have taken losses on it

    I work with the guy who launched it and congratulated him when it finally turned a profit and he laughed that the console was never the point, it was always the games where they make their money.
    • upeneff, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1But if MS doesn't make money off of the console, who will take that over?

      "This sounds like a great business solution, lets sell something unprofitable and not recoup the expenses."
      • RonBurgundy76, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Reading comprehension... work on it.

        MS makes money from the games / licenses. A lot of money. More than enough to recoup the loss from hardware.
  • dukeeeey, on 06/26/2008, -9/+4They make a loss selling the hardware, the money is made on the software.
    • eastsoccer19, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1not exactly the loss is on the console its self if anything. The cost to buy aftermarket hardware is through the roof. i mean just look at the price of the HDD
  • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -12/+3This isn't going to happen.

    This is Microsoft we're talking about here.

    What would a third party 360 be like? Blu-Ray support you say? Oh really, a third party putting a Blu-Ray drive in a 360 device of their own? So said company would have access to how the 360 Operating System works on the inside aka the source code? No, they wouldn't, and no, it wouldn't work to make a Blu-Ray drive without modification to the code. This is true for about everything. "Well they can make they're own Operating System" Ha, I'd like to see that.
    • WaxenPith, on 06/26/2008, -2/+4Hahahahah, how old are you 12?

      You're not an expert on anything, so shut your mouth and let them do as they please.
      • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -2/+120.

        And no, I'm not an expert, but I know alot more about this than anybody here in this comment. I haven't seen one thing here that makes sense on how this will work, and we all know damn well that Microsoft won't release the source code.

        Now someone give me a real rebuttal?
        • RonBurgundy76, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3Since the 360 Operating System is basically an extremely light version of Windows 2000, I don't think it would be very difficult for them to just put in a standard Blu-Ray driver that hardware manufacturers would have to adhere to. No need to release their source code.

          Problem solved.
        • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -2/+1No, the problem isn't solved. Microsoft would have to put it in, and why would they do that? To support a third party attachment that they won't make any money off of?
    • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -2/+1Well since people Dugg me down and I will not be around to respond to a rebuttal (which is something that I can respond to instead of some idiot calling me 12) I will dumb things down for you guys (becuase your special is what you are! Oh yes you are!)

      Take Windows, I'm sure you've seen it in action as you are here on Digg and lynx would make you cry :'(
      Got Windows now? Now, without any previous drivers installed, put in a DVD drive. Turn on the computer. Does it work? No, you need a driver. Now STOP! how are you going to put in the driver? You have Windows install it. Now, does the 360 OS do this at all? No. Its all built in. Microsoft will either have to enable this or they will have to allow the 360 Operating System to be source-available to these companies in order for a 360 to have some kind of other device support beyond whats built in.
      • UpSetMartin, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3Just how they added Divx support and released an HD-DVD add-on. Microsoft just has to make an update to add Blu-Ray support.
        • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -2/+1You ***** morons aren't getting it are you?

          Why would Microsoft make support for a third party attachment? They won't!
        • WaxenPith, on 06/26/2008, -1/+2No, you don't get it.

          It's NOT gonna be an attachment but a whole new piece of hardware, they could patch anything they want on the damn thing.

          I dunno why you gotta make some arbitrary argument full of unsupported claims, thinking that Microsoft CAN'T do this, or SHOULDN'T do that.

          People like you make me laugh, because you always get proven wrong.
        • WhereAmI, on 06/27/2008, -2/+1Why would Microsoft patch something so that a third party can have their way? They are not going to do that, I don't see why you aren't getting this.

          Of course Microsoft could come out with a Blu-Ray drive and put in whats necessary to work. But a third party could not put in a Blu-Ray drive and have it work with the 360 OS unless a) Microsoft supports all sorts of Blu-Ray drives b) Microsoft releases the 360 OS source to the third party c) They release some sort of driver dev kit for these third parties.

          Obviously option c would be the easiest, but they won't do that. Why? They would lose control of what hardware runs on their console. Go plug in any USB PC remote on the 360. Does it work? No. Go do that on the PS3. Does it work? Yes!

          Microsoft /can/ do this, the thing here is they won't do it. Third parties would be unable to add anything in on their 360 without adhering to Microsoft approved hardware standards.

          So I walk out right again.
        • UpSetMartin, on 06/27/2008, -1/+2Microsoft would allow third parties to make their own 360 hardware because Microsoft loses money on every system because of the expense of making them but if a third party starts producing their own with add-ons like a Blu-ray player they could turn a profit.

          But you don't care, you are just a sony fanboy and hate on anything from Microsoft for no reason.
        • WhereAmI, on 06/28/2008, -1/+1You still didn't explain why I was wrong. And brought up that damn Blu-Ray player again. Are you not reading this? Take apart your 360 and put in a blu-ray drive. Does it work? No! Now what? You need to update the system. Microsoft is not going to update their software to work with third-party applications. They are too afraid of losing control, again look at Epic not even being allowed mod support or keyboard/mouse for UT3.

          So, prove me wrong, don't bring up some scenario that won't happen and I've already stated its not going to happen.
        • UpSetMartin, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1That's right you just proved that you are wrong. If I "Take apart your 360 and put in a blu-ray drive" it wouldn't work because Microsoft has control over the systems' compatibility including adding the update to make it compatible with a Blu-Ray add-on. Microsoft would retain control over the 360 because third party developers would have to get a license to build 360s and Microsoft would approve any extra features added to them.

          I do agree with you about this not happening this generation but not on it being impossible or allowed by Microsoft.
  • MetalGear7, on 06/26/2008, -14/+1MetalGear7 pwns all noobs in call of duty 4, if you want a piece of this action just pm me on xbl, I also do Halo3 during the holidays
    • ConfusedCartman, on 06/26/2008, -0/+5***** off.
    • MetalGear7, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1And You wonder why your always confused, you have nothing to say but ***** off you ignorant American
  • RadioFreeOpium, on 06/26/2008, -10/+15microsoft allowing for competition?




    pfffff. myth busted.
    • DeFex, on 06/26/2008, -5/+6like they don't ;allow anyone to make PCs to run windows on, or pocketpcs and phones to run windows mobile on.
      • RadioFreeOpium, on 06/26/2008, -3/+3Ummmm, thats because microsoft doesnt make PCs. Or pocketpcs. Or phones.
      • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -3/+4Show me that third party zune!
      • vtnerd, on 06/26/2008, -2/+3Microsoft doesn't build PC's. MS makes Windows and Windows Server and Office and Internet Explorer and so on. Perhaps you remember the EU anti-trust decisions against MS for being anti-competitive with regards to Internet Explorer?

        MS would never willingly allow Firefox or OpenOffice to come pre-installed on Windows Vista.
  • Snokage, on 06/26/2008, -5/+64I buy consoles because they are equal. you change that...and you basically have a PC...
    • Vodd9, on 06/26/2008, -1/+4Exactly. And games would require a certain level of hardware to play with the best graphics, just like a PC, which means you'd probably have to upgrade your stuff at a certain point to play with the best graphics... Justl like a PC.
      I'm not sure if this is a really viable solution unless Microsoft chooses gives the exclusivity to one company to manufacture the hardware and they care about the rest...
    • Darkangel754, on 06/26/2008, -2/+0I think the way it should work is this: Have every developer build there game on the STANDARD 360 hardware (the stuff in the xbox's we have now). Once the game is made the developers can then add more eye candy to it for the people with more powerfull 360 units. thatway no one is left out of playing a game.
    • Varz, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2They're not going to change the core hardware so that games run better or worse, that's just stupid, it wouldn't even be a 360 if they did that. Microsoft will stipulate that all consoles are equally powerful, you're more likely to see differences like larger HDDs maybe a Blu-Ray player but nothing that actually changes what makes it a Xbox 360.
  • FreeTalkLIve, on 06/26/2008, -9/+3HACKS1!1!!
  • scififan9009, on 06/26/2008, -14/+7Translation: We know Sony's superior hardware is going to kick our ass in the long run. Toshiba, IBM, and Sony spent a CRAPLOAD of money developing the Cell architecture and over time it's going to pay off in spades: http://www.research.ibm.com/cell/
    • doctordbx, on 06/26/2008, -3/+1No, more like. We know the game was about software from the word go. We've spent a mozza on developing both a hardware platform that works and an SDK that is powerful. Now if we make the hardware ubiquitous and the become the source of the software.... we'll profit.

      I actually don't believe the rumour, but were it true, and Microsoft could get some decent hardware manufacturers to start producing their own consoles then it could be a massive coup in the industry.

      The PS3 is a nice console, but it IS an absolute ***** to write games on compared to the 360.
      • scififan9009, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1"The PS3 is a nice console, but it IS an absolute ***** to write games on compared to the 360."

        The same was said about the PS2. We all know how that turned out.
    • scififan9009, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Let me clarify my position. Sony spends BILLIONS each year in research and development, this is a fact. Wired did a great article on Sony's R&D strategy about ten years ago. From the Playstation to the PS3 they've tweaked their hardware so that as it ages the devs get more tools to get more performance from the system. Just compare Battle Arena Toshinden to the first MGS. Sony released the Playstation Analyzer for the PSOne that helped devs see where to get more out of the hardware.

      Then the PS2 comes out. "It's too hard to code for" everyone shrieks. "Xbox is going to kick Sony's ass." Yet look at the first gen PS2 games to the last gen - the graphics get better looking as time goes on - drastically so. Then look at the Xbox - the games look pretty much the same graphically from first gen to last. The PS2 outsold the Xbox and still has a huge retail presence today, Sony is STILL selling PS2 systems and games. When was the last time you saw a new Xbox game in GameStop, or any Xbox game that wasn't in the bargain bin?

      Then the PS3 is released. "It's too hard to code for!" everyone shrieks again. I've said this from beginning with the original PSOne - Sony does their homework. You don't spend as much on R&D as they do and not have a clear gameplan. They're going to reap the rewards of the Cell architecture long after Xbox 360 owners have had to purchase a new console.

      I own both systems. I watch each company and how they do business to see where they're headed. MSFT bunged the first Xbox together, it used PC components for pete's sake. The failure rate on the 360 is near 30 percent, on the PS3 the failure rate is less than 1%. Microsoft has a better marketing department than Sony which is one of their huge strong points. Digg me down all you like - it doesn't much matter to me what you think. I was right ten years ago, and I'll be right ten years from now. Just because you don't like what I have to say doesn't mean it isn't true. Sony does their homework and the Cell is an amazing piece of computing architecture. MSFT hemmoraged money on using cheap components for the 360, and now they are looking for a way out.
      • ufee, on 06/30/2008, -0/+1Microsoft's plan was to secure their presence in the living room. Getting dell to create the hardware, but still licensing the software is entirely acceptable, not to mention ***** brilliant.
  • kevro, on 06/26/2008, -4/+11holy , that's going the way of the 3DO
    • QuarterRican, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1On the bright side. The 3DO did have star control 2. I'll just hope for a better overall outcome that the 3DO took.
  • Goldbricker, on 06/26/2008, -6/+0Great idea. Three to four years too late.
  • anubis2night, on 06/26/2008, -10/+2I wrote a letter to M$ about this along with several other ideas when they were still selling the original xbox and the 360 was just getting going. The way I saw it video game console makers like Sony and Microsoft should be more like real entertainment devices, they call themselves that and yet they limit us to one type of device. I always envisioned a gaming console much like dvd players or stereo's. Let 3rd party companies come out with them then license add on peripherals like you would to your stereo system. Bump the gaming system out to include receivers, routers ect. Also it would be nice to see several versions out there some with routers included along with remotes and maybe a carousel system....
  • wenis, on 06/26/2008, -10/+1very sneaky microsoft...a great way to trojan horse the 360/bluray player into homes.
  • xhero0, on 06/26/2008, -6/+10Who remembers Sears making a clone Atari 2600????
    • zenerdiode, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2I do. But it wasn't a clone. Sears bought the distribution rights to the Atari 2600 that Christmas season. So the only Atari 2600 you could get was a Sears 2600, built by Atari, and completely identical to the regular Atari except with a big ole Sears badge.
  • 3amboo, on 06/26/2008, -6/+3sweet im going to build one
  • doshindude, on 06/26/2008, -8/+4So, it's basically a PC now, right..? Wonder how long it'll take before people realize that it's just a PC with a jacked up graphics card and restrictions on software.

    So technically someone could build a 360 with Blu-ray/Wiimote functions now, right?
    • ExRe, on 06/26/2008, -0/+4It _always_ has been a PC. The difference is that there is basically 1 set of hardware the programmers need to build for. If it works on 1 Xbox 360 it should work on them all.

      The graphics card in the 360 sucks by today's standards. An 8600 GT will beat the crap out of it (they are about $50).
    • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -3/+1Not without access to the 360 Operating System source they will not be able to make any peripheral as adding hardware needs more than just the hardware to work.
      • RonBurgundy76, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3You keep saying that, but I don't think you really know what the ***** you're talking about.
        • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -2/+1And people keep saying I don't know what I'm talking about with no real reply as to why I'm wrong (which I am not).
        • RonBurgundy76, on 06/27/2008, -1/+1I replied earlier with how they could easily accomplish this. I don't see the need to repeat it here.

          I maintain that you don't know as much as you think you do.
        • WhereAmI, on 06/28/2008, -2/+1And I replied to that saying you are wrong. Of course they can throw in the driver, but Microsoft won't throw in the ***** driver. They only want what they approve to work on the 360, and the same would go for a third-party 360 as they will have no choice but to use the Microsoft 360 OS.
          Microsoft doesn't allow anything beyond a USB keyboard/mouse on the 360 unless its Microsoft approved.

          So again, I'm right, you're wrong.
        • RonBurgundy76, on 06/30/2008, -0/+1One more time... All they have to do is add a standard driver that all hardware vendors must adhere to. They already do this in Windows and have been doing this for some time.

          If you can't figure out why that would work, then you are either incredibly stupid, or, as I suspect, a PS3 fanboy that would hate to see Microsoft do this, as it would pretty much put a nail in Sony's coffin for the current generation of the console wars.

          Either way, it's clear to me that you are just ill-informed at best, or a mouth-breathing fanboy troll at worst. So I'm done here.

          Regards and enjoy your day! :)
    • TreatsTheBear, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2Wrong. The original xBox was a PC. It used intel x86 architecture and had very little proprietary hardware. The 360 is based on PowerPC architecture (like Apple used to use) which makes it a lot harder to hack, just because it has less in common with a PC, which hackers know their way around pretty well. You'd probably have an easier time getting OS X 10.3 to run on an xBox than windows and you'd have an easier time running xBox games on a PowerMac G5 than on a PC.
      • Joe11Blue, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1Window's XP will run on PPC.

        You guy's act like there's this mythical barrier cause the processor is called something different. Architecture is a pretty much of the two same categories.

        Either RISC, or CISC. X86 is CISC, PPC is RISC. That's the only difference. Everything else is pretty much the same, just the way they handle instructions cycles, and the stack are different. XP will run on either, with the right driver's. Which are available.
        • WhereAmI, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1There's a difference between will run and will run well. It will *not* run well.
        • TreatsTheBear, on 06/30/2008, -0/+1It will only run with an emulator or if MS can recompile it. They have completely different instruction sets.

          Oh nevermind...
  • WaxenPith, on 06/26/2008, -3/+2I seen this one coming

    EARLY 2007

    "Details are scarce, but Microsoft announced this evening that British telecommunications company British Telecom will be the first company to use the Xbox 360 as a set-top box.

    Robbie Bach made the announcement this evening at the Microsoft CES 2008 press conference, offering no solid information about the service. He did mention that consumers would be able to get an Xbox 360 directly from British Telecom, but gave no further details.

    As more details follow, we'll keep you updated. "
    • craighoxton, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3"British telecommunications company British Telecom..." *facepalms*
  • one2gamble, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3this will be pretty epic IF the hardware can actually be different and consistent while being stable. I personally think its a further push into integrating the "media extender" and Microsoft further into the living room and away from the desk/office.

    I have some doubts though, I somehow could see the xbox hardware being standard across the boards and just having an array of case designs to choose from.
  • transform100, on 06/26/2008, -1/+13That would be pretty cool to see a 360 drive for the PC.
    • sammykeyes, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1But wouldn't that be like playing PC game