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Apple solved touchscreen copy-and-paste 15 years ago

boingboing.net — Video by option8 shows "how Apple could (or should) implement copy and paste on the iPhone: a demonstration of how they got it right 15 years ago on the Newton MessagePad."

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  • hpceman, on 09/07/2008, -1/+25That is a really good solution, however, the Newton used a stylus which means that the point touching the screen was about the same size every time. Not to mention that it was easier to be accurate where you touched the screen. With the iPhone/iPod Touch, everyone has different sized fingers and beginners won't be able to be that accurate.
    • iPhrankie, on 09/08/2008, -0/+2You're exactly right.

      Apple probably hasn't implemented copy/paste on the iPhone for fear of being accused of having an 'inaccurate touch screen' on the iPhone.

      If users struggle with selecting text then they'll claim the iPhone sucks and the media and Apple naysayers will jump all over it.
    • billbugger, on 09/09/2008, -0/+1That's why they have the 'magnifying glass' built into the iphone/touch. try typing them hold your fingover the text, it'll popup. They can use that.
  • firebirdx01, on 09/07/2008, -1/+17Unfortunately tap+hold = magnify/cursor on the iPhone.

    Still, it might work out with a tap+hold + 2nd finger drag but it seems less intuitive.
    • cawpin, on 09/08/2008, -0/+2How about a 2 finger tap and hold. I don't have an iPhone, because I'm not switching from Verizon, but I can't believe they still haven't solved this. It isn't a difficult issue, logic wise, and they've already got multifinger recognition. This shouldn't still be a problem.
      • jakem1, on 09/08/2008, -1/+3How about 2 finger tap and hold, holding one arm behind your back, standing on one leg and hopping up and down. Seriously though, it's just copy and paste you're after. Do you really have to remember some convoluted sequence of gestures just to get such basic functionality?
      • sinembarg0, on 09/08/2008, -1/+2If holding 2 finger on a screen for a second or two is a convoluted sequence of gestures, I would suggest you seek medical attention.
      • grndslm, on 09/08/2008, -0/+0EXACTLY, jakem1! I've been screaming about this since I first heard they hadn't implemented it. It took me about 30 seconds to figure out the only way Apple could and would soon do it.

        If you can only use your fingers, the device has multitouch, and the pinching effect for zoom already works... why not use two finger hold to copy. I don't know if you meant double tap and *then* hold, but that is prolly quicker and more effective to separate from the pinch effect.
    • logicalnoise, on 09/08/2008, -1/+2Maybe the iphone could let you do the "shave and a haircut" to copy and paste. Copy : o o oo o Paste: o o

      Oh well, there's always android.
    • singularityv, on 09/08/2008, -0/+1In other words, Apple ***** themselves with poor planning.
    • championchap, on 09/08/2008, -0/+1Actually, i really like the idea of using 2 fingers to select.
  • pedepy, on 09/08/2008, -4/+32as long as it doesn't store it as 'eat up martha'
  • CalinSchue, on 09/08/2008, -3/+4And it even comes with its own pen! Time to bring back out NewtonPhones.
  • Cargo8, on 09/08/2008, -4/+2There was no flick to scroll back then either...
  • loconet, on 09/08/2008, -4/+29I might be crazy here but I'm pretty sure that the stopping factor on copy/pate functionality for the iphone/touch is not a technical one.
    • ePuck, on 09/08/2008, -14/+1Wow someone with a brain. Digg him down!

      The problem is copy and paste isn't secure. It would open a world of vulnerability. I want to hack my iphone, I don't want others to hack my iphone.
    • ePuck, on 09/08/2008, -8/+1loco had 0 diggs a second ago. lol
  • aussieNickuss, on 09/08/2008, -7/+13Heres my concept....I don't know if this is original or not, I just thought of it one day.

    To copy:

    Tap and hold (just like you do to get the magnifying glass) but then single-tap a second finger on the display. This puts the cursor into text-select mode. Select the text you want to copy. Double-tap the selected portion of text and a little dialog/modal pops up with three buttons; "Copy", "Cut" and "Paste" ("Paste" will be initially greyed out....see below).

    To paste:

    Tap and hold, move the cursor to where you want to paste your text. While you still have your finger against the screen, double-tap with a second finger. A dialog/modal pops up with a "Paste" button. To overwrite a portion of text, enter text-select mode (the same way as copying above), double-tap the selected text, when the Cut/Copy/Paste dialog pops up, tap the "Paste" button which will now be active.
    • HonoredMule, on 09/08/2008, -0/+3Clearly the mouse and keyboard cannot survive such creative ingenuity.
    • Baryn, on 09/08/2008, -4/+3You piece of ***** liar. This made digg's front page after the iPhone's release. This exact method. Castrate yourself with a broken bottle, you worthless cockmonger.
      • aussieNickuss, on 09/09/2008, -0/+2lol...such kind words.

        Like I said...I thought of it...but someone else may have thought of it first. It's not that complex an idea that only one person on the planet would think of it.
  • Echomote, on 09/08/2008, -1/+5Stylus touchscreens shouldn't really be compared to Finger touch... They're not really the same.
    • 1Bad, on 09/09/2008, -1/+1It is called multi-touch, not finger touch.
      • shawnz, on 09/09/2008, -0/+2there could be multi-stylus-touch screens, just as there could be single-finger-touch screens...
  • alexpigment, on 09/08/2008, -2/+3seriously, this person is missing the point. apple isn't too dumb to figure out how to copy and paste on the iphone. the problem is doing it with simple actions that don't overlap other actions. and they have to do it right so that it's completely intuitive.

    besides, if you swiped over the text right now, you'd be prone to LOCKING YOUR PHONE. they can't be redesigning other actions to accommodate copy/paste
    • naderslim, on 09/08/2008, -0/+1You cannot lock your phone by swiping. Swiping only works to unlock your phone when the lock screen comes up.
      • alexpigment, on 09/08/2008, -4/+1ok, well it was merely used as an example to show why the guy who created the article/video doesn't understand at all why apple hasn't already included copy/paste. for the record, i don't even own an iphone.
      • itsbradman, on 09/08/2008, -0/+0Well, maybe you should know more about the topic to which you post and GET RID OF THE CAPS!!
      • alexpigment, on 09/08/2008, -0/+1touché
  • biogears, on 09/08/2008, -7/+2Does this mean prior art violating their own patents? Or meaning there's only a couple years left?
  • m4csrgh3yk3v, on 09/08/2008, -13/+9Next on the agenda: right click button on a ***** mouse.
    • Kragnerac, on 09/08/2008, -5/+1Welcome to 2005. http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/
      • singularityv, on 09/08/2008, -0/+1Yes, they got right-click when everyone else started supporting middle-click. It's almost impossible to press the middle button on a Mighty Mouse.

        Hell, pressing the left and right buttons on the Mighty Mouse is mighty annoying. That thing is a design nightmare.
      • vashmyvindows, on 09/08/2008, -0/+2singularity:

        As long as there is any pressure on the middle button, when the entire face plate is depressed it counts as a middle click. You're right about the squeeze buttons though; on some mice it takes Herculean strength to trigger them...
    • alexpigment, on 09/08/2008, -2/+6i would have been on your side 100% before i bought my macbook. but with their new trackpad, i don't use EITHER of the buttons. right click is just using two fingers on the trackpad. scrolling is two fingers and drag (i have no idea how they don't get those two confused, but it's flawless). trust me, as a windows guy, i don't think i could go back to actually using an actual right-click button on a laptop
      • revenz, on 09/09/2008, -0/+1to be fair i still use right click, its handy, but yes i agree with you scrolling on a macbook is far better than any other laptop ive seen, and two fingers for right click is fine (once you get use to it), you dont need the extra button to do it at all.
    • immski, on 09/08/2008, -6/+0Retard, You could right click simply by ctrl-clicking or buy a ***** mighty mouse.
  • ssn697, on 09/08/2008, -0/+9Dugg for making me nostalgic for my Newton...
    • Herkimer56, on 09/08/2008, -0/+2I still have both of mine and they still work. The Newton makes a great e-book reader.
      • ssn697, on 09/08/2008, -0/+2I still have my Newton, but haven't broken it out in a long time. I thing a charge up is in order. It is still the best PDA I ever had, no question about it...
      • Herkimer56, on 09/08/2008, -0/+2I've had the batteries in both of mine refurbished. You can upgrade the batteries and actually get about twice the battery life that you got with the original batteries.

        http://www.pda-soft.de/mp2k_battery_pack.html

        Sorry, I go all fan-boy over my Newtons.
      • ssn697, on 09/08/2008, -0/+3I stopped using my Newton about 2 years ago. I think an upgraded battery, and some old school return to cool is in order ;-)
  • iamthearm, on 09/08/2008, -8/+3But can Apple solve it's 10% market share problem? lol
    • marshn, on 09/08/2008, -2/+4You know, it used to be a 4% market share problem.
      "LOL"
      • jakem1, on 09/08/2008, -1/+5You know it's 3% world wide.
      • surferjoemaui, on 09/08/2008, -0/+110% market share is good if you've got the top 10%.(no problem)
        Maybe if it was Moist and chewy like cake?
    • nycmac247, on 09/08/2008, -0/+1can audi?
      "lol"
  • jabberwolff, on 09/08/2008, -0/+1
    Hmmm And Samsung i900 not having a problem with this?
  • localzuk, on 09/08/2008, -0/+2Sigh. Yes the iPhone uses a specific sequence of tap/drag for other things at the moment. That doesn't preclude the fact that this concept would be usable - ie. maybe a different sequence of taps?
  • slicecom, on 09/08/2008, -10/+16Am I the only one who doesn't care about cut and paste on my phone?
    • Matsky, on 09/08/2008, -8/+14Yes.
    • Aitese, on 09/08/2008, -0/+4I bought an iPod Touch and last week realized I DID need it. I had to add some info I had uploaded to Evernote to an email and realized the only way I could do it was to get out the old pen and paper and copy it all out and then retype it all. I COULD email it from Evernote but it was supposed to be in a reply to someone else's email and I needed to add additional info...which was not possible.
    • CharlesSaint, on 09/08/2008, -0/+3Copying and pasting links, at the very least, is a must.
  • SimmaDownNow, on 09/08/2008, -1/+8I don't think Apple would want us bringing up the Newton. But seriously, the Newton was way ahead of its time.
  • ePuck, on 09/08/2008, -9/+1The problem is copy and paste isn't secure. It would open a world of vulnerability. I want to hack my iphone, I don't want others to hack my iphone.
  • CaptainNoPants, on 09/08/2008, -0/+6"Beat up Martin"

    "Eat up Martha"

    bah!
  • castletech, on 09/08/2008, -0/+1Newton had the best handwriting recognition. It still beats most of what is being released today.
  • immski, on 09/08/2008, -1/+0It is an emulator not even legit
  • moduc, on 09/08/2008, -3/+2Can't add copy and paste feature is just retard. There are many ways to solve the usability problem. If there is a conflict with existing functionality, change the current functionality if that is a must. If it's open source, it's probably already there months ago. If not, I will add it.
  • jakem1, on 09/08/2008, -4/+2Here's a radical idea. CTRL-C to copy and CTRL-V to paste. Failing that, just tap and hold to pop-up a menu with copy, cut and paste options. Surely a UI as advanced and intuitive as the iPhone's could handle that.

    I can't believe anyone would think that that horrible Newton way of copying and pasting is acceptable.
    • Lewiji, on 09/08/2008, -0/+1There's no control key, and neither is there a way to select text - tapping and holding currently brings up a magnifying glass so you can more accurately position the cursor.
      • singularityv, on 09/08/2008, -0/+1The lack of a real keyboard is one of the reasons why I'm avoiding the iPhone.

        I enjoy my Cingular 8125's keyboard way too much to give it up. Then again, my 8125 doesn't have a ctrl key either...
      • jakem1, on 09/08/2008, -0/+3That just proves my point. How good can the UI be if it's not even capable of the most basic text operations? Feel free to Digg me down but I fail to see how Apple can make such a big deal about iPhone's being post-computer devices when they can't do these simple things.

        Just out of interest, why do you need a magnifying glass to zoom? I thought multi-touch was supposed to make that easier.
      • Lewiji, on 09/09/2008, -0/+1You don't need a magnifying glass to zoom, it's just easier to use it to reposition the cursor than have to zoom in on the text every time you want to go back in what you're writing.

        And I'm not saying it does or doesn't prove your point, your point is valid. It's just more complicated than it initially seems to effectively implement copy and paste.

        They should certainly have solved it by now though; over a year old and no copy and paste is pretty bad.
  • rickymh, on 09/08/2008, -0/+2PalmPilots had copy and paste why would i want to downgrade to an iphone! sad!
  • homercles337, on 09/08/2008, -1/+2The Church of Apple has never solved anything. They are truly masters of the copy pasta.
  • Urkel, on 09/08/2008, -1/+2A two button trackpad has been around for over 15years too, but Apple is sticking to one. So don't think copy/paste is something Apple isn't making a conscious decision against. Apple simply does what they want and the more people complain the more they will avoid a resolution.
  • PhiloMcNinja07, on 09/08/2008, -0/+1i wish it could be done on the iphone it is the only thing that annoys me about the phone ... i dont see why you cant just press and hold for 4-5sec in the same place to activate the function the move the curser back as normal and if you have made a mistake and not wanted to copy you could just tap to release the highlight and you will be in the place you wanted .... or is that just working in my head ???
  • trixterIreland, on 09/08/2008, -0/+4Microsoft does tap and hold with windows mobile/ce/pocket pc and it works just fine. Yes apple has mapped that to an alternate feature, although for quick zooming I would think a rocker switch would be better. I also do not use a stylus with my touchscreen (most of them in the last 10+ years do not require it if you have any degree of hand eye coordination). Its silly that the iphone is so hyped by missing this and a few other critical features.
  • galv0, on 09/08/2008, -4/+1The Newton ***** sucked. Big time.
    • nycmac247, on 09/08/2008, -0/+2I wonder...did you ever use one?
      • galv0, on 09/09/2008, -0/+1Yes. You have "mac" in your username. Haha.
  • davidlow, on 09/08/2008, -0/+2The Newton didn't have multi-touch. The iPhone does. The multi-touch options for cut-paste should at least be considered.
  • dsalmon9, on 09/08/2008, -1/+4People, (and I would include myself in "people", I guess) will always have something to gripe about. When a software update is released that includes copy and paste, there'll be those who complain about how it got implemented. "Why didn't they do this or do that?" type stuff. I want copy and paste as much as the next person but its not being there isn't a deal breaker. I used a Treo for 3 years and while it had copy and paste, it never dealt with my email like I imagined it would. And I never got a software update for the operating system, not one. I got updates from the carrier so my phone could listen to new towers and what not but in terms of op sys updates for functionality and stability?? Nothing. And trust me, I checked for them.

    At the very least, I expect that Apple is working to make improvements and will be releasing them ever so often as they usually do. For me, copy and paste is a small thing compared to the fact that you can't truly turn off the SMS Preview feature. If the phone is unlocked and a friend is checking a website or something, regardless of your SMS Preview setting, that message is popping up. Even when the phone is locked, the name or number of the person sending you the text message pops up. That's much more a pain than having to remember a phone number long enough to put it in your address book because you can't copy and paste it.

    Hey Apple, how bout having it just say "x New Text Message(s)"?
  • singularityv, on 09/08/2008, -1/+11Hell, _Microsoft_ solved this problem ages ago.

    My Windows Mobile 5 phone can do copy-and-paste entirely though the touchscreen. Hell, I just tested it to verify it.
    • surferjoemaui, on 09/08/2008, -4/+1Cool, you should never get a new phone.
  • surferjoemaui, on 09/08/2008, -1/+2I understand the problem is not UI related but a security issue. This might be dumb but what if instead of copying and pasting to the phone you copied to the cloud and pasted from the cloud (like an online clipboard)
  • macpro2006, on 09/08/2008, -0/+1wtf? i already posted this
  • skiboarder2k1, on 09/08/2008, -1/+1my lg dare has copy and paste...
    • dajuggernaut, on 09/09/2008, -0/+1too bad that the
      1) OS is not that great
      2) the UI is horrible
      3) the touch screen is crap
      4) good luck getting new os features via sw updates
  • aserer511, on 09/08/2008, -0/+1that's a little less than elegant, but kudos to apple on the ingenuity that they did pack on the newton
  • helgiorn, on 09/08/2008, -0/+1looks cool, not sure how elegant it would be with my fingers. Annoying sounds though :P
  • AppleMacStud, on 09/09/2008, -3/+2Apple is also ahead of Microsoft by 15 years at least. 
  • DrFu79, on 09/09/2008, -1/+0PRIVATE ADVERTISEMENT: I still have a Newton MessagePad 2100 with Keyboard, Printer, Case, Stylus(ses) and TONS of Extras. New white Backlight (5 Hours lit), very good condition. Bonus: A MessagePad 130. Contact me at mafur { a } me.com if you´re interested ... ;)
  • binutils, on 09/09/2008, -0/+1buried for saying it was Apple. Apple bought the Newton.

  • redroooz, on 09/16/2008, -0/+0
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