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Tell Apple "iPod Touch users should get iPhone apps for free

tuaw.com — as if these things ever work... sign an online petition if you are gettin the shaft from Apple.

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  • jjsanders281, on 01/17/2008, -30/+150I love Apple but this is BS. Stop screwing early adopters!
    • mysteryman, on 01/17/2008, -11/+15you are totally right, I paid 400 EUROS for this, wtf! sign the petition and send some emails http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipodtouch.html

      WTF apple WTF. don't ***** with the early adopters god-dammit!
      • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -35/+12Stop crying. You paid 400 euro for an mp3 player. You deserve to be broke, and kicked, and slapped.
        • sg7791, on 01/17/2008, -5/+15People say that to me all the time... But the thing is basically a computer.
          • prophetpimp, on 01/17/2008, -10/+5So is the PSP according to your definition.
          • dsmx, on 01/17/2008, -1/+7You'll set the apple fanboys on the march if you mention any apple product is like a sony one.
          • MarkOfTheDead, on 01/17/2008, -0/+5yeah I pissed them off yesterday mentioning the hacked firmware race was like that of the psp. I think my comment is in china now.
          • kiensoy, on 01/17/2008, -1/+5@prophetpimp: Yet Sony has never charged for a PSP firmware update, not even with the Skype integration update.
        • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -11/+4A computer. Good for you kiddo. I'll bet it impresses people when you show it around but as for actual real-world usefulness its *****. And yes I have used one.
        • netdroid9, on 01/17/2008, -10/+4Sorry, but a cell-phone PDA is even *more* of a computer for half the price
      • drcreek, on 01/17/2008, -11/+1I think it's unfair but i think apple's hands are tied by AT&T. I think it's all down the to mail app. The others are just widgets. The only way Apple can get round it is by charging for it. even part of it might be going to AT&T?
        • BooshTukka, on 01/17/2008, -1/+12A perfect example of someone having no idea what they're talking about.
        • teh_techie, on 01/17/2008, -0/+7Why would AT&T get any money from the iPod Touch?... They wouldn't.
      • fatlip, on 01/17/2008, -5/+2WTF apple? you bought the damn thing. Apple isnt "screwing" anyone.. if you bought the device, you should know what you're getting, and if you don't know what you're getting, don't buy the god damned device. I thought this whole early adopter thing was obvious when iphone came out
      • GregR, on 01/17/2008, -1/+4You bought it and were happy with your purchase I'm guessing.
        Now you are being offered a lot more functionality for a modest price. If you don't want it, don't pay but it's a great update and makes your device even better.
        Everyone knows that buying the first version of something is risky - it isn't called the bleeding edge for nothing!
        Get over it.
    • roodammy44, on 01/17/2008, -7/+23Now we know why they decided not to allow 3rd party apps - they were planning to milk the money out of enough mac fans as possible!
      Another reason not to buy one. At least with Mac computers we can download free alternatives. Open Source FTW
    • Drood, on 01/17/2008, -9/+11***** Apple. They pulled this *****. Tipped the balance and I did the jailbreak and now my iPod is open. Had Jobs not announced this $20 nonsense, I would probably not have hacked.

      Nice move, genius.
      • suprememilo, on 01/17/2008, -1/+1So if he he wouldnt have asked for $20 you wouldnt have given them $20?
    • Jrr6415sun, on 01/17/2008, -2/+10I have been calling apple a greed driven, screw the customer company since they first announced that the iphone would be locked, while all the fanboys blamed it on AT&T. I'm glad the fanboys aren't blinded by apple's nonsense anymore.
    • dsmx, on 01/17/2008, -12/+7Why is it people are getting so up in arms about this early adopters are always screwed. You should always wait for the second gen of any new hardware anyway,as the price drops and most of the bugs are fixed. The only people who buy 1st gen stuff are those who want bragging rights and I for one like it when they get screwed over.
      • teh_techie, on 01/17/2008, -3/+18Gee... if we all waited for the second gen, THERE'D BE NO ***** SECOND GEN!
      • zizzy, on 01/17/2008, -0/+11That's irrelevant, because people who buy the first gen iPod Touch NOW get this for free - it's not even a question of first or second gen, but WHEN you bought the first gen.
    • vhold, on 01/17/2008, -2/+2And also stop being an Apple early adopter. At some point hopefully people will learn their lessons, economic punishment is the only way the company is going to change its ways.
    • roosterjm2k2, on 01/17/2008, -6/+221) Unless you have never heard of Apple, you should know to avoid Gen 1 products as a rule...unless you don't mind being a little dissapointed.
      2) You didn't get ripped off. You bought an ipod with exactly the applications it was advertised to have. You got exactly what you paid for.
      3) Why would a company release free software in such a high-demand market, it would be foolish, and would cost them the confidence of alot of investers. Their job is to make money, people seem to forget that these companies are NOT charities.
      • teh_techie, on 01/17/2008, -4/+2You're right.. and they have no problem ***** around with the average Joe.
      • Grok22, on 01/17/2008, -2/+1Thank You!
      • imamessy1, on 01/17/2008, -5/+3Totally agree with #2. I bought a Touch when it first came out. I bought it without those apps because I didn't care to have them, and knew that when I needed them I probably wouldn't be near wi-fi. Why would I waste HD space on programs that work some of the time in a 16 gig player when I need all the space I can get for my music?
      • rnawky, on 01/17/2008, -1/+1No one seems to understand #2.
        I bought windows 95 way back when, I totally want 98, 2000, xp, vista, and 7 when it becomes available, free of charge.
        Seriously
    • Amazetbm, on 01/17/2008, -6/+1Early adapters of....well anything get screwed in some form. The iPod Touch is a wasteof money any way, Get a real iPhone or an iPod nana. Hell, at the price their asking you can just get a regular 160 GB iPod
      • choopie911, on 01/17/2008, -0/+4The iPod Nana? Where can I get one of those??? And "get a real iPhone"... why? They wanted a real iPod Touch and they got a real iPod Touch. Maybe everyone everywhere doesn't want an iPhone, maybe it's not available where they live yet, and just maybe in places like Canada, cell phone data rates are insanely expensive, and people dont want to go broke trying to use the features on their phone.
    • teh_techie, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1I'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark... they're trying to prevent the next update (1.1.3) from being widely jailbroken. If people have to pay to get the 1.1.3 update, there will be less of them. That is unless someone can port the 1.1.3 apps (like the newly updated maps and springboard) to the 1.1.2 jailbroken iPod... Damn I hope so...
      • roosterjm2k2, on 01/17/2008, -3/+2They have no problem with jailbroken phones, they have said that in the past.

        They aren't intentionally trying to brick phones or prevent updates...updates continue to change the firmware...when they change the firmware, they change the other codce to adopt to it...since the jailbroken phones run apps (some that load on phone start) they cause the phone to crash...

        They have said they have no real problem with the jailbroken phones as long as people understand that they arent going out of their way to support them.
    • sethaldridge, on 01/17/2008, -7/+2I disagree. They released the new apps for $20. If you don't want them don't get them. I haven't gotten an iPhone/iPod Touch yet because I knew Apple would do this. They shouldn't HAVE to give you anything. They are a company...just because you like the company doesn't mean they should give you stuff for free. On the other hand they did release the Apple TV take 2 as a free upgrade, so play that angle...not the stop screwing early adopters *****. If you don't want to get screwed then don't adopt their new products early. The market will tell Apple what it's customers want. If you stop buying their products early because you know they're only going to release the same product with more features in a few months then they'll just start rolling out the final versions in the beginning. You made your damn beds, now sleep in them. :)
    • jankind, on 01/17/2008, -0/+3Thank you. I got an iPod first gen about a month or so after they came out. By the time I got it out of the box there was a new one out and not long after that I found myself at a computer store searching for accessories and car adapters and ... what the ***** is this dock thing? None of this ***** works with my iPod...This is how they reward the early adopters. Now I have an iPod Touch and I saw this last night..They pull this ***** every time. Of course, I'll never learn my lesson. If I had the dough I would have that MacBook Air pre ordered by now...
    • my8bird, on 01/17/2008, -8/+4Stop bitching. You wanted to be cool now suck it up.
    • chicagobiker, on 01/17/2008, -2/+4Sarbanes-Oxley
    • springo, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1You know what should happen? Having screwed early adopters this time to get a few more bucks they don't need, next-gen should get them into trouble with early sales. That would be a good lesson taught.
      • GregR, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1"... to get a few more bucks they don't need..."
        News flash: Apple is a business. They are there to make money for the company and investors.
        $20 for that much extra functionality isn't a big deal.
    • theemptyset, on 01/17/2008, -0/+2I am tired of this class envy, anti-capitalist, whining. The last time I checked, Apple was a publicly traded corporation which is owned by the share holders. Many of these shareholders are mutual funds. Mutual funds are owned by a majority of Americans and people around the world in 401k's and other retirement accounts. When Apple makes money, millions of others make money too. Quit whining about money and how you expect people to give you something for nothing. If you spent as much time thinking of your unique idea and how you could profit from it as you do crying about someone making money, perhaps $20 would not be such a concern? No person is "entitled" to anything free from anyone. Nor should you expect it. Period.
    • se1zure, on 01/17/2008, -1/+1So let me get this straight...

      Your complaining because they released new optional features for the ipod touch?
      Would you rather have them never release these features? Not give you any choice?
      It didn't come with these features, and you knew that before you purchased it. They spent the time and effort porting it to the ipod touch from the iphone, so it's not their responsibility to give you free extra features if you already bought the ipod.
    • Scott2, on 01/18/2008, -0/+1As an iPhone / Apple TV owner, I feel thoroughly rewarded for being an early adopter. Then again, I do agree that what they're doing with the Touch is wrong, and those apps should be handed over for free, since they cost Apple exactly $0.00 to develop and about $.14 to distribute.
    • seiga, on 01/18/2008, -1/+0Don't be such a ***** tool. Apple TV = Free upgrade for early adopters. iPhone = Free rebate for early adopters.

      The only actual case you have is a principled one against proprietary software in general. If you don't want to make that case, then be quiet and quit acting like a bunch of whiners.
  • NetworkShadow, on 01/17/2008, -15/+10Worth a try. At least Apple will know how mad we are if we sign this... We can hope they do something about it.
    • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -3/+11The best way to let them know is to stop buying their stuff. Market forces. Anyone ever think of this? They will reverse course in record time. This online protest is a childish outburst that will fade and be forgotten about. It means nothing.
      • Haecceity, on 01/17/2008, -5/+2It was because people complained about the huge iPhone price drop that Apple issued a rebate, so I don't think you're right about the efficacy of protest. And a boycott seems pretty senseless -- my not buying a MacBook Air doesn't exactly send a clear signal to Apple about the nature of my unhappiness about their software policy for the iPod Touch.
        • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -2/+4Thats the problem with people today. Nobodys prepared to take any real world action. They think signing an internet web page counts as a protest. Don't like a companys ethics?, sign a web page, don't like a movie? then sign a web page, don't like a products pricing then sign a web page.
          Usless *****.

          Vote with your wallet. It is the quickest way to get results. Last years rebate was issued because it made headlines in main stream media, which began to adversly effect sales. Not all these pissy littles tantrum protests will make it to main stream media. Most will be forgotten about, like this iPod Touch one, and therefore have precisely ZERO effect.
          • christor, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1The problem is that economic boycotts (or even more modest efforts to send signals through purchasing decisions) face enormous collective action problems. Why would any one person abstain, in order to send a message, from a transaction that would make them better off, when one can't be sure that others will do the same - if the participation of others is necessary for effectiveness?

            Signing a petition is doubtless far less effective than an effective economic boycott, but it's also far more likely to overcome such collective action difficulties. Upshot is that protestors face a choice: easy to accomplish but weak impact / very difficult ot even impractical to accomplish but high impact in the case of success.

          • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -0/+2@christor
            Economic boycotts don't have to collectively organized and coordinated. Stop being a sheep. Do your own thinking. We are not borg. Just think to yourself "Do I want to be taken advantage of?" If the answer is "no" then don't buy. If enough intelligent people think like this then it will have the effect of a collectively organized boycott and positive results will be forthcoming.
      • Karmavs, on 01/17/2008, -1/+4Except that the people who are against this aren't going to be buying an iPod touch anyway… THEY ALREADY HAVE ONE. And not buying other products will just make them think that those products suck.
        • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -1/+3Well if they get away with this $20 crap, they'll do it again in future, you can bet on it. So its best that people know now what kind of company they'll might be dealing with so they'll know to avoid them.

          Why is this not obvious to you? Are you high?
  • clak, on 01/17/2008, -42/+17You wanted the iPhone without the phone, Touch users. Well, now you've got to pay for it. Do you really think you were going to get the iPhone without the subscription service too? iPhone users pay every month for the right to use their phones. Why should Apple give you a break? Huh? What? I thought so.

    Okay, enough with the jokes. It's twenty freakin' dollars, cheapskates. I spend more than that downloading free porn. Petition my azz.
    • Verdican, on 01/17/2008, -10/+10Actually, it's not really fair for the early adopters. Apple said that the newer iPod Touches were going to be released with the applications already installed. Why should the new iPods get the applications for free while the rest of us need to pay 20? Besides, making people pay is just going to push people towards Jailbreaking their iPod so they can get more applications. Not that anyone really cares, but I've already blogged about why I think paying $20 is a dumb idea. It's in my profile is someone wants to read it.

      Anyway, I do think this is going to work. It'll just be like the iPhone price drop complaints. Apple's going to end up giving in.
      • BOFH139, on 01/17/2008, -2/+4Ok,

        I'll start a protect to MS requesting a FREE copy of every game bundled with the XBox 360 after I bought my one which didn't come with any games.....
      • my8bird, on 01/17/2008, -2/+2Quote: Why should the new iPods get the applications for free while the rest of us need to pay 20?
        Because, they have added new funcationality in the new release. By your logic my 2007 car should get all of the 2008's cool new features with out me paying for it.
      • mrThefter, on 01/17/2008, -1/+1Actually, it's just as fair. It's the same all-around with Apple products, so complaining about this one isn't going to change anything.
        OSX, you have to pay for a minor version upgrade (e.g. 10.4->10.5). Sure, you get abi version upgrades, but that's just security fixes. The new features don't really come out until the minor version upgrades.
        Then, as mentioned, you've got AT&T and the iPhone. Yeah, their updates are free, but the iPhone plan is also more expensive than a regular AT&T plan (speaking as an AT&T customer...not out of choice; sharing the plan with family). In the end, when's all said and done (or when the minimum contract period ends) the royalties they're paying probably far outweigh the measly 20 bux you have to shell out for this update.
        And there have never really been any iPod firmware updates at all. They always package it in a new generation iPod.
        AppleTV was underselling anyway, so a free update wasn't going to cut into Apple's profits that much. Not to mention, as another said, rentals would cover the cost.

        So really, the argument is moot.
    • britkev1, on 01/17/2008, -5/+13Clak,
      Dumbest argument EVER! Yes I expect to be able to use my ipod touch just like an iPhone but without the service contract. They pay that monthly contract for cellular service and service alone, not for the "right" to use their iPhone.

      It's not about the money (I did pay $400 for an ipod so cash is not a problem), its about the principal. Apple TV had a major overhaul for FREE. The iPhone was updated for FREE. Yet for some reason touch owners have to pay for some basic apps.
      • ricksite, on 01/17/2008, -2/+5The Apple TV overhaul allows you to rent movies from Apple. They are hoping the update is paid for through rentals. They also said that updates to the iPhone would be free. They didn't say that for the Touch.
      • cleverboy, on 01/17/2008, -1/+5ricksite is RIGHT. Moreover, the iPhone buyers are paying monthly for new software updates through their AT&T wireless plan/tarrif. Apple specifically set up their iPhone and AppleTV accounting so as to be able to spread any additions to its "features" and "value" out over 2 years after purchase. iPod Touch was NOT set-up this way. They sold you what you got, you bought it. Now, they have a whole NEW level of features they're including with new purchases. Upgrade yours for $20. If you're so happy with jail break apps, then stay with them. Want more... pay 4 lincolns. Oh, no! Not 4 lincolns!

        Man, if back in the day, I got 5 new apps for my digital device, that let me do new stuff... especially considering that Apple went out of their way to set-up a deal with SkyHook specifically for Touch users? Yeah, $20 ain't much at all. If you bought a touch in the last 2 weeks, you shouldn't have ANY trouble getting the upgraded software for free. Just threaten to return it. Personally, I don't think $20 is even worth the time to read the comments in this digg. I'd just PAY it.
      • teh_techie, on 01/17/2008, -2/+2Think about a service pack. It's an update with security roll-ups.. and sometimes... NEW Features. You're not charged to install a service pack...
        • cleverboy, on 01/17/2008, -1/+2If the "service pack" included NEVER-BEFORE-INSTALLED "Mail, Mapping, and Word Processing" software... its no longer an "update"... its a "Plus Pack", which they CHARGE for. Hello.
          • teh_techie, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1So, if the manufacturer of a car puts in cruise control in the manufacturing process, then before they ship it, disable it... and then make you pay to get it... would you be happy? Jobs admitted that the iPod runs the same backend as the iPhone.. so What. The. *****.
    • Azarken, on 01/17/2008, -2/+3You spend more than $20 downloading 'free' porn?
      • Spor, on 01/17/2008, -0/+0I didn't get that either. He seems to be getting the shaft on that deal.
  • deadbaby, on 01/17/2008, -33/+28$20 seems pretty reasonable. I'm not sure why people have such an enormous sense of entitlement these days. Mail.app is worth $20 alone, IMO. You can certainly use webmail instead -- along with other websites that duplicate the functionality of Apple's apps. It's kinda ridiculous... people want these apps and don't want to use the free alternatives yet they're upset Apple wants to charge for them. That's kinda the whole point of capitalism. A company offers a product -- you either choose to buy it or not. You don't demand they give it to you for free.
    • roodammy44, on 01/17/2008, -6/+4I wouldn't say it's reasonable considering if they had a more open platform the likelyhood is that free apps would have filled the void.
      The "free alternatives" you speak of are web-based which can never be as good as a native app.
      You'll probably have to pay each time a new set of apps come out.
      The problem with this sort of capitalism you speak of is the blatent greed, but I suppose we should expect that from apple by now
      • kazamx, on 01/17/2008, -3/+7Do you think they will start to charge for updates to the OS too? Hey OSX.5.2 is now available, only $10.
        • teh_techie, on 01/17/2008, -1/+2Now, I bet they will start to charge for updates.
          • Patrikimo, on 01/17/2008, -0/+2105 to 10.5.2 is not a major feature upgrade, to compare the two is silly. Think about it this way: you buy a computer and it has iLife '07 on it, a few months later, Apple comes out with iLife'08 and it has an extra app, should Apple be required to give you that other free app?
      • my8bird, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1Why would you buy things from Apple if you wanted an OPEN platform. Apple is the MOST restrictive tech company you will find.
    • Drood, on 01/17/2008, -5/+3It's not a sense of entitlement. It's the fact that all new iPod Touch owners will get the apps for free. It's not like they were newly developed. Jailbroken iPod's can already run the 1.1 and 1.2 apps from the iPhone. So basically Apple are asking $20 for doing nothing. Not only that, but AppleTV owners got a massive upgrade for free.

      Whatever, I did the jailbreak in the wake of all this and now have a ton of apps and other cool stuff.
    • brainflakes, on 01/17/2008, -4/+5I might be wrong but aren't they now also giving them away for free with all new iPod touches? If everyone had to pay $20 that'd be one thing but what's the point of screwing the early adopters like that? It's not like the iPod touch has even been out /that/ long and what would it cost for one measly little firmware update?
    • Kelmon, on 01/17/2008, -3/+10Look, Apple doesn't charge for updates to software (except major revisions), hasn't charged Apple TV owners for their update, iPhone users for theirs, and even Microsoft didn't charge Zune 1 users (all 2 of them) for the upgrade to Zune 2 software. This is plain and simple greed on Apple's part. These features should have been there from Day 1 but were removed to differentiate the Touch from the iPhone more - no work has gone into adding them back as all the work done was in removing them in the first place. And, as has been noted already, new Touch owners pay the same price and effectively get the update for free. Honestly, I'm disgusted in this behavior and so should you.
      • enclaved, on 01/17/2008, -4/+4By this analogy people should be pissed that all the available upgrades weren't included with their car just because they could be and were already made to be. Everyone needs to stop whining and feeling entitled to something that no one ever said you could have for free in the first place.
        • teh_techie, on 01/17/2008, -2/+2If the cars came with the features, and the dealers took them out... then tried to sell them to you... would you still feel the same?
        • my8bird, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1Yes, I would because I still bought the car without the features.
      • my8bird, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1It is Apple what do you expect. They are twice as bad as Redmond and people are finally starting to see it.
    • cleverboy, on 01/17/2008, -9/+4It's $20 people. Give me a break, or should we call the waaaahbulance for you?
  • randovaro, on 01/17/2008, -5/+84I was watching the Keynote and the crowd definitely went a little bit medieval when SJ announced the $20 charge for existing iPod users.
    • incandescent, on 01/17/2008, -1/+1Did Jobs notice or react?
    • teh_techie, on 01/17/2008, -0/+5Uhh... I didn't hear a thing when he announced that.... NOTHING. You're making ***** up.
      • sjorsvb, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1Indeed, the only thing I noticed was a crowd not applauding after the appearance of one of SJ's sheets.. on the other hand, I must say this is really unique, so you could say they relatively went medieval :|
    • kiensoy, on 01/17/2008, -1/+5After he said the $20 charge I thought he would say laughing: "Of course not... this update will also be free for all current iPod Touch owners."
    • SRSco, on 01/17/2008, -9/+3*****. People who are at the keynote and not in their mother's basements playing WoW and reading digg don't get all pissy over $20.

      You aren't getting burned for being an early adapter. iPhone early adapters got burned with $200. C'mon. $200 v. $20.

      Maybe you all wouldn't be whining if you hadn't given every last penny to a non-viable, completely insane candidate for president.
    • Rekzai, on 01/17/2008, -0/+2Seriously I think the crowd should start boo'ing when they announce dumb ***** like this.
  • aaryn, on 01/17/2008, -10/+14It's only fair, I would rather not use a jailbroken device but they really arent convincing me to update by charging money for it
    • Drood, on 01/17/2008, -0/+2If you've not gone to 1.3 yet, look for downgrade instructions. (1.3 can be downgraded but it's not easy.) It's the simplest hack in the world, and there is no convincing reason to then go through the hassle of going to 1.2 and redoing it. Running 1.1 here and it's great. Visit jailbreakme.com with that firmware and you're done in under a minute, then run the installer and go nuts.
    • Chirp08, on 01/17/2008, -0/+6Seriously, everyone makes it seems like its some hardcore thing to jailbreak an iPod, I swear to god its easier and faster then installing Photoshop on a computer. It finishes and you are like "whoa, thats it?" Then you open up installer and bask in the glory off all the apps at your disposal.
      • aaryn, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1It's not hard at all, mine is jailbroken right now, its just nicer to be running official firmware without chances of something going awry with unsupported apps. I am staying with 1.1.2 until they break the new one.
        • likwidfuzion, on 01/18/2008, -0/+1If something goes awry, do a restore. Done deal. People makes it as if one screw up will ultimately brick their device for life. There will always be a remedy.
  • yobboninja, on 01/17/2008, -14/+58If the people who are buying the touch now are paying the same amount for it as the people before the update, what's wrong with giving it for free? This is one of the worst things Apple has done. Even worse than the iPhone Price-drop.
    • mr_wej, on 01/17/2008, -13/+17Ok, I'll explain it to you. Initially when you release a product the manufacturing costs are at their peak, as you sell more and more of the product the manufacturing costs become streamlined and decrease. Rather than decreasing the price of the physical product shortly after release (remember the iphone) Apple has decided to invest in adding new features. The cost of adding those new features is absorbed into the CURRENT retail price of the unit, which could have otherwise gone down potentially. Early adopters paid a premium for the higher manufacturing cost, since the original retail price had a lower margin the additional R&D for a software update needs to be subsidized to maintain margins. Business 101. You're Welcome.
      • neiltc13, on 01/17/2008, -5/+13These are not new features, at the time iPod touch was released they were designed, written, tested and running on the iPhone. The cost of adding them to iPod touch at the time would be minimal.
        • AntBing, on 01/17/2008, -9/+3$20 is minimal compared to the original $400.
        • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -2/+5@AntBing

          $30 is also minimal compared to the $400. So hell why don't we all just leave a $10 tip?
          • AntBing, on 01/17/2008, -4/+1Reply much?
          • teh_techie, on 01/17/2008, -2/+2sometimes the reply option isn't available. Like here.... you had no reply under your name, so here's my reply to you in the wrong spot. THANK DIGG for this one...
        • ghdave, on 01/17/2008, -5/+3You're missing the point. When the iPhone was released, many of those new features for the iPod Touch required use of the cell phone's data package. They had to invest a significant amount of time and money into making sure these things worked over wi-fi. Major case in point, from the keynote you'll learn that they had to work things out with Google and another company to get triangulation based on wireless APs instead of cell towers.
          • ghdave, on 01/18/2008, -0/+1As usual, dug down because I gave a differing opinion or a possible alternative view to an issue. Way to go, Digg.
        • mrgreen4242, on 01/17/2008, -0/+7These features obviously worked fine with WiFi as 1) they worked on the iPhone when connected to a WiFi network and 2) PEOPLE COPIES THEM ONTO THE TOUCH AND USED THEM ALREADY.

          It was probably more difficult for Apple to REMOVE these apps from the touch firmware when they were building it (directly from the iPhone software as has been demonstrated by people hacking the system files) than it would have been to just leave them there. They were trying to protect iPhone sales, plain and simple.
        • SouthsideIrish, on 01/17/2008, -5/+1You can't do triangulation on WiFi, that is part of EDGE.
      • burak1, on 01/17/2008, -1/+2How come I got Safari upgraded for free?
      • SouthsideIrish, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1Didn't the Touch always have Safari? These are NEW features, and they are very likely charging for it based on their accountants interpretation of Sarbanes Oxley, so blame the butt wipes in Washington. That is why I had to pay for 802.11n.
    • Haecceity, on 01/17/2008, -1/+8I'm at a loss about how there is a new "cost" to Apple in including this software. The software was developed a long time ago, and it doesn't cost anything to include a bit more software on the Touch.
    • the6thReplicant, on 01/17/2008, -6/+6So since I got a Mac with Tiger on it and people who buys Macs now don't have to pay for Leopard then I should also get 10.5 for free? Is that the logic?

      I think it's stupid what Apple has done but some of the logic used on digg is closer to a 5 year old than a logician.
      • doctordbx, on 01/17/2008, -6/+1If your mac is identical to shipping Macs today, and since the software is married to the hardware... then yes, you should get the upgrade for free.
      • DiFosfor, on 01/17/2008, -1/+3I have to say I _was_ kind of expecting a discount at least after seeing both iLife and OS X upgrade to newer versions a few months after buying my first Apple computer. You know, just to keep customers happy. But if there's one thing I've learned about the whole Apple/Mac universe then it is that it's quite nice, but it'll cost you.
      • teh_techie, on 01/17/2008, -1/+4a re-written OS is not the same as a couple of ***** applets..
    • diggjones, on 01/17/2008, -3/+3No, the iPhone price drop is more significant. $200 price drop compared to $20 apps. There's no contest here.
    • etandrib, on 01/17/2008, -1/+2Apple has already discounted the iPod Touch in distribution without the new apps by $20 thereby allowing you to keep your $20 or receive the apps for free (essentially). While I don't believe $20 is the right price They do have to charge something for adding value to the device.
    • chakl, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1especially concidering its software, and I believe has been already made since they share the same OS,
  • Cyraq, on 01/17/2008, -20/+29Shame on you, Apple. The apps have been available on the iPhone since day 1 yet you charge iPod Touch users. I bought an iPod Touch literally two days ago and even though I want to buy the apps, I can’t anyway because I’m an international user. So not only are you telling your users not to adopt early products, but you’re also cutting off the international community from future updates.

    I’m seriously disappointed at you, Apple. Didn’t you learn anything from the iPhone price rebate? I’d expect this from Microsoft, but not from you.
    • cgreentx, on 01/17/2008, -5/+13Funny. I'd expect this from Apple, not Microsoft. There has been a *CLEAR* pattern of this for years from Apple. Nothing to see here, move along.
    • BurtCokain, on 01/17/2008, -0/+5Hey, where are you based? I can buy the apps from the UK iTunes store for £13 if I wanted them. I don't have a touch though. And if I did it would be hacked, and would have them already :P

      If you aren't in a region with iTunes Store and want to buy the apps, go to eBay and buy an iTunes Japan Gift card. Then sign up with a fake address using the giftcard (I have done this) and buy the apps with it. I can't guarantee they'll come up in English, but I'm pretty sure they just go with the language your touch is set to, like all the iPod apps I've bought from there. They are cheaper than the UK, too :)
    • Drealoth, on 01/17/2008, -0/+7When has Microsoft done anything even remotely similar? Apple does this all the time - remember them charging for the AirPort update?
    • kiheimac, on 01/17/2008, -1/+2Can't you return the iPod touch? Wait until the new ones ship with the software and then re-buy. Maybe that's not an option for you but that's what I would do.
    • mrgreen4242, on 01/17/2008, -1/+9Heh, MS actually gave all the Zune owners every single feature they added to the Zune 2. For free.
      • GregR, on 01/17/2008, -3/+1All 6 of them?
        • Ocelot13, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1how many apps is apple charging $20 for? 5?
          • GregR, on 01/18/2008, -0/+1I'm guessing that they aren't charging for the apps.
            Access to the maps database for the USA & Canada of WiFi hotspots so that the Touch can be located can't be cheap - I think that's what you are paying for - a one-time nominal fee.
    • kijiro, on 01/17/2008, -0/+2Microsoft defers income on the Zune, so they can give feature updates for free. Like Apple does with Apple TV and iPhone, but not the iPods.
  • OneManArmy, on 01/17/2008, -5/+52"Only the iPhone and Apple TV are currently using Apple's "subscription revenue" accounting model. As such, Apple has explained that it can give software updates for those devices, when possible, for free. The iPod touch does not fall under this model, and therefore under Apple's reasoning, a major feature upgrade must incur a charge."

    I dont agree with it, but I thought it might be of interest to some.
    • the6thReplicant, on 01/17/2008, -2/+3Isn't this something to do with a lawsuit so many years ago? ***** totally forgot what it was for, but all I can remember is that if they ask people to pay for it then it would be a workaround for that law. Jesus, can't remember anything else. Sorry folks.
    • MikeCerm, on 01/17/2008, -3/+7Why do people believe lies like "they have to charge $20 because they're required to for accounting purposes"?

      Companies give away free software updates all the time. There are millions of examples. The best would probably be Windows XP SP2. Apple would have given it a cat name and charged $129 for it. Microsoft gave it away for free.

      Also, look at the huge software/firmware update Microsoft just did for the Zune. That was also free to owners of first gen Zunes. I'm not saying that Microsoft is all wonderful and benevolent. I'm just saying that any company can give away free updates whenever they want.

      Apple has been choosing to screw people, and they've never explained why. They leave it up to the screwed to justify why they're being screwed. For some reason, the "accounting" thing is what helps these people justify their continued faith in Apple, but it's just not true.

      • BlurredWeasel, on 01/17/2008, -2/+0Microsoft does a subscription accounting just as Apples does on the iPhone, ATV, and Leopard, but not the touch.
        • MikeCerm, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1So, if I buy a copy of Windows, I am paying a one-time fee for a life-time subscription to Windows service? No, you're wrong.
    • phoomp, on 01/17/2008, -1/+3Do MacBooks, MacBook Pros, iMacs, Mac Minis and Mac Pros use Apple's "subscription revenue" accounting model? Given the fanaticism with which people anticipate incremental OS updates, I wonder how long it'll be before Apple starts charging for 10.5.x?
      • Yarnage, on 01/17/2008, -1/+2You don't get it. Those are updates to existing software to fix existing issues. The iPod Touch update, just like the MacBook update to unlock 802.11n, is additional functionality.

        I don't agree with it and I think it's total *****, but you can't compare the two different updates.
    • teh_techie, on 01/17/2008, -0/+2The iPod has the ability for you to download ***** off iTunes RIGHT ON THE Device. What a crock of *****.
    • mrgreen4242, on 01/17/2008, -0/+4There's absolutely no reason the ATV should have a subscription account scheme if the touch doesn't. The touch had, when it launched, a method to buy stuff from Apple directly on it. The ATV doesn't. They both have a primary feature to play back content purchased from Apple, and neither require an ongoing fee. They both can playback ALL the content available from the iTMS. Based on the products at the time they were sold the touch is clearly the device that is more geared towards selling people content on an ongoing basis.

      The difference between these updates is that the ATV update INTRODUCES an ongoing profit stream to the device for Apple, the touch update does not. It's not really any more complex than that.
    • ImpactedColon, on 01/17/2008, -1/+4I guess the authors of Bioshock should all be thrown in jail! I just downloaded a FREE CONTENT UPDATE! And Starcraft (which I bought 4 years ago) is STILL getting free upgrades! Throw all of the software writers in jail immediately except Apple who is the only company following their greedy bastard hearts (oops I mean The Law)
  • gypsi, on 01/17/2008, -6/+16for every person who wants it free, there are 20 more right behind him willing to shell out the cash. economics.
    • Haecceity, on 01/17/2008, -2/+4I'd call those proportions into question.
    • masonreloaded, on 01/17/2008, -1/+2And for every person who would be willing to pay $20, there are 20 people who will look for a way to hack it for free...
      • brian1625, on 01/17/2008, -0/+6Probably not, you just hang around a lot of geeks which could give you that impression.
      • ddawggin, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1And for every person hacking it for free there will be 20 people that'll google it and use that hack
    • mrpither, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1you better be wrong, or free updates are going to become a thing of the past from apple. today's apple is all about the stock price and the profits. you show them another revenue stream and they'll jump on it faster than a digger on an apple story...
  • truspect0r, on 01/17/2008, -6/+12lol like Steve "20 bucks" Jobs going to do anything about an online petition.
    • Kelmon, on 01/17/2008, -1/+3Decisions have been reversed in the past based on customer protests that look like they might impact the bottom-line so don't bet against it.
  • mulling, on 01/17/2008, -13/+4This is the real reason the stock dropped 7% on the day of the keynote. It probably cost Apple more than they'll make charging for software updates.
    • Karmavs, on 01/17/2008, -2/+6it's also the reason almost all other stocks dropped at the same time too, I guess? Apple must be far more powerful than I thought!
    • Kelmon, on 01/17/2008, -0/+2A nonsense but entertaining suggestion. As usual the analysts had some sort of pie-in-the-sky expectations that Apple didn't meet and so people started selling their shares. It's a stupid reaction as it's completely wrong - the iTunes Movie Store was well worth the stock going north as I expect it will do later.
  • chkdg8, on 01/17/2008, -3/+43If you payed really close attention to the keynote, you can hear some slight boos coming from the audience when he mentioned it would cost $20 for the update. This is not a good business model.
    • Solkre, on 01/17/2008, -2/+2Have you ever heard a cheer for an update costing money?
      • mrgreen4242, on 01/17/2008, -0/+3People were really excited about paying money to update their computer to [insert every build of OSX and iLife here].
  • vanjab, on 01/17/2008, -11/+3This has been discussed before - they are legally obligated to charge for extra features. Its the same reason that the 802.11n upgrade costs $2.
    • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -1/+9Legally obliged to charge? What the hell planet are you on? Show us the law that says they have to or STFU. They made that excuse before for the wireless update but it turned out to be *****, as much of what jobs says is when you analyze it in the cold light of day. Whats their excuse for giving the update to iPhone users for free then?
      • JustinPM, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1Wait a sec, if they're legally obligated to charge for extra features why do the iPhone and the AppleTV updates come free? Qua?

        EDIT - Man I hate these nested comments, this was meant to go under the root comment.
      • the6thReplicant, on 01/17/2008, -1/+1vanjab is right. There was court case that had a lot of people worried (about giving stuff away for free - sorry, have no extra specifics), and Apple got around it by charging for updates.

        Sorry to burst your bubble but vanjab actually remembered something correctly.
    • Kelmon, on 01/17/2008, -1/+1No they are not else Microsoft would have charged for Zune owners to upgrade to the Zune 2 software. Apple has interpreted accounting rules in their own "special" way that means they can use it as a justification for wringing more money out of owners who already paid a premium price for a premium product. I received new features to my copy of iMovie 08 when it was updated but wasn't charged for it - tell me what the difference is?
    • the6thReplicant, on 01/17/2008, -1/+2Bingo

      From http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/01/ ...
      "Why do non-US customers have to pay these fees that are supposedly due US-specific laws and principles?" relating to this law
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes-Oxley_Act

      Like to see alanr19 and JustinPM apologise to vanjab?
  • mr_wej, on 01/17/2008, -14/+3Can anyone name one other physical product that comes with FREE new feature upgrades after a purchase that is not on a paid monthly subscription? Because I sure can't think of any. Note, I said physical product so software doesn't count.
    • yensed, on 01/17/2008, -3/+20My Zune
      • mr_wej, on 01/17/2008, -10/+1Holy crap! People actually own a Zune!?! I had no idea.
        • Catch_ME, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1why are you interested in putting down people? He owns a zune. He made a choice based off his opinion. Not only did you go way off topic but you did it by insulting him. Very mature.
    • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -1/+10@mr_wej
      My Blu-ray player, my PSP, my Nokia phone, my HTC S620 smart phone (free upgrade from Windows Mobile 5.0 to Windows mobile 6.0 direct from HTC).

      Theres nothing more pathetic than a fanboy who can't form a logical argument. You sir are an idiot.
      • mr_wej, on 01/17/2008, -4/+2PSP is updated with the PURCHASE of new games, correct? Same with my wii and xbox360... I wouldn't count those as feature upgrades. As far as the Nokia and HTC S620 I'm not familiar with those... but they both require an ongoing subscription to a cell phone provider so updates ARE paid for (just like iphone updates).
        • Drood, on 01/17/2008, -1/+4PSP updates are downloadable and free. Nice try my friend.

          Not to mention motherboards, DVD drives etc... Hell, working on your logic, graphics card drivers that add new features should cost money.

          As the prior poster said, you sir are an idiot.
          • Patrikimo, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1"Not to mention motherboards, DVD drives etc... Hell, working on your logic, graphics card drivers that add new features should cost money."

            Those are almost always bug fixes not adding completely new features. Even the incentive for Sony to update the PSP is in some part to keep people from hacking the system and playing pirated games on it. How often do you get completely new features that you weren't promised up front for free? Not all that often unless the company has something to gain from it (like getting you to install a patched OS for your PSP/iPhone/DVD player, etc).
        • JustinPM, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1All three of those have updates that are 100% free. The 360s updates have all been 100% free and automatically downloadable without any software whatsoever. Same with the PSP. The Wii does have some pay content, as in the Opera browser (for those folks that got into it late) but nonetheless they do have free things as well. Check Mii Out!, Everybody Votes!, Weather, and News have all been free and free without having to buy anything else.
      • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -2/+4@mr_wej
        WRONG *****.
        HTC and Nokia phone software updates come straight from the manufacturers, independent of the carrier, as was pointed out in my original post.
        As for PSP updates: ->> http://www.us.playstation.com/psp/downloads/system ...
        Blu-Ray feature updates include PiP feature amongst others. Thats more than a bugfix or update. Its a new feature.

        You stupid *****. Educate yourself before presenting arguments.
        • mr_wej, on 01/17/2008, -2/+2*sigh* Nokia gets subsidized from cell phone subscriptions, why do you think they give you a discount when you sign up with a new cell phone plan? Do you think it's a charity? Blu-Ray and PSP offer updates - ok, there's two products - do you understand why it's such a short list? I wouldn't be surprised if you don't.
        • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -0/+2@ mr_wej, unlocked phones from http://mobileplanet.com (Where I bought mine) are NOT subsidized by anyone.
          Updates are downloaded from HTC's site, INDEPENDENT of the cell phone networks.
          See for yourself: http://www.europe.htc.com/support/download.html
          Updates have nothing to do with the cell phone networks.
          Also add my wireless router to that list. Free firmware updates available. It doesn't belong to my ISP either I bought it outright online. Linksys.

          You appear more and more desperate in your arguments for some kind of victory, or respect from other diggers. You keep failing. Do the honorable thing and end yourself.
          • Patrikimo, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1Those are mainly bug fixes, not adding completely new feature sets.
    • JayFyve, on 01/17/2008, -0/+7My PS3, My Xbox360 (I don't subscribe to Live), My PC, Lots of Routers and network devices
      • mr_wej, on 01/17/2008, -4/+1Funny, my Xbox 360 or PC don't offer feature upgrades... I guess both of them offer things I can BUY and back end software updates but no free new features...
        • JustinPM, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1You didn't get that Divx upgrade on the 360 then? Huh. Weird. Oh, and they gave everybody in the states a free game too.
      • Catch_ME, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1I remember when the XBOX 360 had that free 1080p update that new xbox 360 were going to come out with. There was also that free update to let us play divx on our xbox and h.264. There was the big MSN messenger program that lets us chat with MSN and Yahoo people. And i don't have XBOX Live subscribed either. Only that free silver account. But i also have a account on iTunes. I remember when ipod 5.0 users got a free update to 5.5 Remember that?
    • JustinPM, on 01/17/2008, -1/+3PSP?
    • Karmavs, on 01/17/2008, -1/+3and, from apple, TV.
      • mr_wej, on 01/17/2008, -2/+2They upgraded it to allow users to PAY for a service - which in turn subsidizes the upgrade.
    • Cyraq, on 01/17/2008, -1/+4 They didn't charge for the AppleTV upgrade. Microsoft didn't charge to upgrade all 1st Gen Zunes to 2nd Gen Zune software, which differed greatly. The PSP didn't charge for the countless new software updates which introduced a web browser and even Skype. Do your research next time.
      • mr_wej, on 01/17/2008, -2/+1Apple TV upgraded to a new REVENUE model. Do YOUR research. You named two other products, I didn't say their weren't any, I just was implying that it wasn't common - and it's not.
    • stepnet, on 01/17/2008, -1/+2The Nintendo Wii. WindowsXP (Look at how much SP2 added). Every device that has upgradeable firmware (motherboards, dvd players, mobile phones).

      Besides, we aren't talking about a physical upgrade you fool, we're talking about a firmware/software upgrade.
      • mr_wej, on 01/17/2008, -3/+2Windows is software, all software adds minimal features, with major updates you can expect to pay for the next version. The Ipod Touch is a device. The wii does get updates, but it doesn't add new FEATURES per say, just new content and firmware updates and the ability to BUY new stuff. DVD players, motherboards, phones usually upgrade compatibility issues. They don't add new features, my DVD player has never had an update allowing it to take notes for instance.
    • Kelmon, on 01/17/2008, -0/+3Look, I'm a "dyed in the wool" Mac and iPod owner and even I can see this is total *****. The Zune, regardless of its sales, is perfect evidence that Apple is not required to charge for this update. That's the end of this discussion.
    • teh_techie, on 01/17/2008, -1/+1MY ***** PERSONAL COMPUTER
  • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -11/+20I don't give a *****. Apple early adopters always get burnt. Time to learn your lesson once and for all.
    • Chirp08, on 01/17/2008, -2/+2Yes, because my cellphone didn't have a newer version with more features, nor did my digital camera, or my speakers, or my other computer peripherals, or the intake for my car, or the cylinder heads, or the welder, or my dvd player, or my lcd tv, or my xbox, or my gameboy, or the psp, should I continue?
      Anyone who buys the first version of ANY product is ultimately going to get screwed. thats why you DON'T BUY THE FIRST VERSION. stop bitching, no matter what you buy theres gonna be problems at first, and there is gonna be a better version sooner then you know it for the same or less money. stop acting like apple is the only one.
    • skidooer, on 01/17/2008, -0/+3On the other hand the early adopters have had these applications installed, thanks to jailbreak, from nearly day one.
  • Jem2768, on 01/17/2008, -17/+18Ahhh quit whingin' it's par for the course with iPod software, in fact, it's an improvement over previous upgrades..

    The 5.5G iPod software came out with track searching, surely just a software upgrade but 5G owners were never given this feature.
    The games you bought for your 5G iPod have to be re-bought to run on the Classics.

    Welcome to iPod world, at least Touch owners have the choice, 5G owners never even got that.

    Dig me down, like I care
    • markwilcox, on 01/17/2008, -3/+5It's not like the 5.5G came out 3 months after the 5G
    • Kelmon, on 01/17/2008, -2/+2Actually, I agree with you, particularly since the games that the new games that you can download appear to work on both the 5g and Classic yet ones you already bought don't. While I don't own a Touch I am now pissed at Apple since I understand that rented movies from the iTunes Store won't work on my 5.5g iPod that supposedly supports video.
    • Rapter09, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1You have to understand, though, there's some minor internal restructuring, and software restructuring that makes up the difference between the Fifth Generation units and Classics, that's why the games have to be repurchased. You wouldn't complain if you bought a Windows copy of Myth II: Soulblighter and then had to re-purchase the Mac version when you made the switch.
  • warragul, on 01/17/2008, -12/+2Yet another thinly disguised attempt at slandering Apple. SOMEONE is feeling threatened.
    • chris9902, on 01/17/2008, -0/+2are you and Apple going steady or something?
  • ocularist, on 01/17/2008, -9/+44i would also love to pay $20 for 10.5.2... and an other $20 for every future upgrades.... kiss my ass jobs
    • msbeckman, on 01/17/2008, -4/+5I really hope everyone is kidding. Do you realize what Steve Jobs position is at Apple? He is the chairman and CEO. Do you really believe that every thing Apple does is done at Steve's desk? I am sure Steve doesn't think up all the products, name them, design them, or build them. Apple has hundreds of employees that are in charge of this stuff. Everything from pricing to design is managed by someone other than Steve Jobs. This isn't to say that Steve couldn't fix this problem with one motion of his hand, but I am sure it wasn't his idea to charge everyone $20 for a software update.
  • landmonster, on 01/17/2008, -14/+3$20 - get over yourselves. What is that, 4 or 5 beers? A few packets of smokes? A blow job from a crack ho?

    And none of you would think twice about paying that. You know it.
    • S201, on 01/17/2008, -1/+1Almost three hours of working at $7 an hour? Sorry, I don't enjoy spending money. Especially on software that should have been on the touch in the first place. Now Apple wants, $20 for it? I really hope they don't wonder why people want to hack all their devices.
      • landmonster, on 01/17/2008, -5/+4How much was your iPod? $300? $400?

        How can you possibly complain about $20 and how long you have to work to earn it. Get a ***** life.
  • yensed, on 01/17/2008, -7/+14Its very easy to ignore an online petition.. Try emailing Apple directly instead.
    • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -1/+10Or better yet just stop buying their stuff.
    • Karmavs, on 01/17/2008, -1/+3sjobs@apple.com - It's real.
      • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -0/+4True but there are 6 people who filter his incoming email manually after the spam filters have processed it.

        He'll respond to one or 2 people if it guarantees him positive press on the blogs. Not thousands.
        • Kelmon, on 01/17/2008, -0/+2True but it's worth a try and you'll lose almost nothing by doing so. I will be sending an email on this issue, another about the 5.5g iPod being unable to play rented movies (if that is proven true), and another about the Airport Extreme Base Station/Time Capsule if the ability to backup to the AEBS is not officially added as it was advertised. I don't expect a response but being silent helps no one.
        • Chirp08, on 01/17/2008, -0/+2At the very least the screeners will make mention "Hey Steve, man have we been getting a lot of mail over charging for the iPod touch apps" which could do something. Probably won't change anything on this release, but in the future it could change how they do things.
      • the6thReplicant, on 01/17/2008, -4/+3A friend of mine (in Belgium!) emailed a complaint to that address about why his Airport Express went dead a few weeks after one year. Eventually it got intercepted by "Executive Customer Relations" and he got a new one for free.

        So no don't email sjobs@apple.com because I want to be able to complain about real ***** like a $3000 dollar computer not working and not because I can't be ***** spending $20 so MY IPOD CAN HAVE GPS-LIKE FEATURES.
  • lenninct, on 01/17/2008, -7/+2apple users should pay too, wish you could get for free, well there are ways *wink*
    • Karmavs, on 01/17/2008, -0/+3er… what?
    • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -1/+1@lenninct
      OMG ur s0 l337. Let me into your internets gang!!!!1 pl33ze!!!!! I don't know where to get any of these!!!111
  • Tinendo, on 01/17/2008, -9/+3Please, Steve! Make the Update free for all Devices. Not just the iPhone.
  • epitrypt, on 01/17/2008, -5/+6I have 2 friends that bought these over Christmas...don't screw all those people over who adopted early
  • beerbarron, on 01/17/2008, -10/+520 dollars really is nothing, its not really so much of an update, more of a new feature. I can see peoples points though.
    • jacenat, on 01/17/2008, -1/+3psp updates always were free and so far added:
      -) webbrowser
      -) ui improvement
      -) rss capability
      -) streaming capability
      -) increased hardware capabilities

      still, people on digg praise apple and bash sony.
      • Patrikimo, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1Yes and for all that Sony has gotten you to install a more secure firmware that they hope will slow down or stop pirating or maybe they fixed something that made a new game work. Sony isn't any more magical than Apple. They all want your money.
  • REBELinBLUE, on 01/17/2008, -2/+7I'm not hugely fussed about charging for the new apps, even though I don't agree.

    What annoys me though is that to get the updates to apps that already exist on your iPod you have to pay for, namely lyrics in Music (even my 5th gen iPod could display lyrics!), webclips in safari and a customisable home screen.

    Then of course that is the stupidity of the whole way it has been handled. To buy it you need an iTunes store account. Therefore if you are in South America, Eastern Europe, Asia (apart from Japan) or Africa you are screwed.
    • ocularist, on 01/17/2008, -3/+1excatly.... i'm from india and the only thing i can access from the itunes store are the free podcasts
  • sp1nm0nkey, on 01/17/2008, -7/+25It's Sarbanes-Oxley at work here.
    • xaxxon, on 01/17/2008, -2/+7 I thnk the parent really has this right. I'm not saying Apple isn't greedy, but remember what they did with the MBPs that had 802.11n capable hardware but no software support? They charged a fee for the upgrade. It has to do with the bookkeeping and when you realize revenue.
      It goes like this (I think--IANAE): You're not doing well, so you pretend like you made a bunch of money this quarter that you're really not going to get until later (next quarter or whatever). This jacks up your stock/SEC filings/whatever artificially at the cost of the future. In order to stop this, there have been laws made about when you can realize revenue.
      If Apple changes the product, it could be said that they were selling it previously in an incomplete form and were realizing the full revenue from it at the time. They can change the product they are selling new (the new ipod touches) all they want.. but it can actually be considered illegal to add significant value to something you sold previously.
      You know you're going to pay the $20 (or wait for a workaround to load it)
    • Kelmon, on 01/17/2008, -6/+4That'll be the official "reason" but we all know that it's ***** since other companies and even Apple themselves don't charge for most updates. If they REALLY had to charge but didn't want to then what's wrong with a nominal fee? The Wireless N update cost only $5 so why does they update cost $20. Bloody SOX doesn't tell you how much to charge so it's down to pure greed.
    • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -6/+4Wrong. Its Apples greed at work here. Don't take my word for it, heres the former chief accountant of the Securities and Exchange Commission saying it:
      http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/wireless/accountants-sa ...
      • Warblade, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1You should read and understand your own link. This is talking about GAAP, which has nothing to do with Sarbanes-Oxley.
    • arjung, on 01/17/2008, -2/+2please explain how this update is any different than the FREE update to the zune gen1. either apple lawyers are really confused or they're trying to milk us for the software we otherwise get off bittorrent.
      • kijiro, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1Microsoft defers income on the Zune, so they can give feature updates for free. Like Apple does with Apple TV and iPhone, but not the iPods.
    • chicagobiker, on 01/17/2008, -0/+3Exactly, it's Sarbanes-Oxley, which your senators and congress have made into law. Call your representatives if you're upset, not Steve Jobs. And take this stupid petition down it makes people look stupid. This is a law you supposedly wanted!
  • Haecceity, on 01/17/2008, -2/+81.1.3 would have to be very special indeed if I was going to un-jailbreak my iPod Touch and then pay $20 to put back *some* of the software I already have on it.
  • iamcool, on 01/17/2008, -16/+11When you bought the ipod touch, you agreed the programs provided with the ipod touch was an acceptable amount. Suddenly because iphone users received a free upgrade you feel your entitled to it? 20 dollars isn't something to complain about, you just need to decide if the new programs are worth 20 dollars to you.
    • skidooer, on 01/17/2008, -2/+1I bought my iPod Touch knowing I could install any program I wanted. The free upgrade released by Apple decreases the value of my device; the least they could do is throw in a few extra programs as a token of goodwill.
    • tian2992, on 01/17/2008, -0/+2no, it's because new customers, that paid exactly the same, and got the same hardware, got a substantial better thing...
      • skidooer, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1Actually, the Touch's price has dropped $10 compared to when I purchased mine. For all intents and purposes the software is a $30 upgrade.
  • mal1964, on 01/17/2008, -7/+2Bteve Gobs
  • mymate, on 01/17/2008, -5/+39let me guess,
    1. apple do something that makes customers unhappy
    2. customers complain
    3. apple responds and gives customers what they want
    4. customers think apple cares but its all marketing
  • AsherW, on 01/17/2008, -11/+9I bought one less than a month ago, and they pull this *****. FU Apple.
  • JonRick, on 01/17/2008, -18/+39Hey what's that other Mp3 player called? The one that got a FREE upgrade when the new version came out? Oh yeah! The Microsoft Zune!! It's funny because for all the bashing people do on Microsoft, they really are working hard to please their customers. Sure a lot of people aren't crazy about Vista, so what do they do? Extend support for XP and keep on selling it to those who want it. They release a new version of their music player, and what do they do? They give a free software upgrade to all the early adopters. It sounds to me like Apple's elitist cult crap is starting to wear off.
    • Cyraq, on 01/17/2008, -4/+7Well said.
    • Refrag, on 01/17/2008, -2/+2How did Microsoft book their revenue for the Zune?
    • Patrikimo, on 01/17/2008, -3/+1I just wanted to point out that I have spent countless hours trying to fix/repair/etc Microsoft products for friends and family. In fact I am using a still incomplete OS that is 7 years old that still crashes and still doesn't do everything that other OSs have been doing for over a decade before it's release. Microsoft sucks as much as everyone else.
      • JonRick, on 01/18/2008, -0/+1Sounds to me like you've got a pebkac error.
    • ThatsUnpossible, on 01/17/2008, -1/+3I love it ... someone trying to put Microsoft on a pedestal in regards to their pricing scheme.

      Microsoft is one of the most vilified in software history over their pricing techniques overall.

      Gee, I wonder why Microsoft is being so gosh darn nice now with Zune. Could it be because they want to increase marketshare?
    • kijiro, on 01/17/2008, -4/+2Microsoft defers income on the Zune, so they can give feature updates for free. Like Apple does with Apple TV and iPhone, but not the iPods.
      • JonRick, on 01/18/2008, -0/+2They defer income in what manner? I bought my zune for $99 from woot and have never given MS any more money then what they got from that. So.. if you're going to make a statment like that, then please explain.
  • mr_wej, on 01/17/2008, -14/+14Adobe charged me to upgrade to CS3 as well! I'm starting a petition, these software companies are screwing me.
    • JonRick, on 01/17/2008, -2/+2Clearly you don't understand the problem, it's not an UPGRADE, it's an UPDATE and the reason people are upset is because iphone users aren't be charged anything extra for their update, and if you buy the touch after today the update will already be installed at no extra cost to the buyer. It's basically screwing anyone who bought it early. I'm glad I bought a Zune, I got all the new features of the new Zune for free.
    • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -2/+4Because CS3 is a different product to CS2, not a point release upgrade as is the case in the iPod Touch $20 cashgrab. Point release upgrades to CS2 and CS3 are/will be free.

      Your argument making skills need a lot of work.
    • Kelmon, on 01/17/2008, -1/+1Way to go cheapening the argument to something that's important. You must be very proud...
    • likwidfuzion, on 01/18/2008, -0/+1Everyone above me needs a steroid for sarcasm.
  • AxsDeny, on 01/17/2008, -8/+7Whether it sucks or not, they have no choice but to charge. It's the law. The application changes aren't the reason that SOX comes into play here. It's most likely the new auto-location feature from Google and Skyhook that has triggered the charge necessity.
    Wikipedia: Sarbanes-Oxley (SOX)
    • Kelmon, on 01/17/2008, -0/+3Absolute nonsense. SOX is an excuse in this case and not a reason. Ask yourself this: why do other companies (as well as Apple themselves) give updates away for free that add new functions to non-subscription devices and why a $20 charge when the Wireless N update only cost $5? Charging is NOT a necessity - it's a choice and a poor one at that.
      • kijiro, on 01/17/2008, -1/+2Microsoft defers income on the Zune, so they can give feature updates for free. Like Apple does with Apple TV and iPhone, but not the iPods.
        • nogami, on 01/17/2008, -1/+2You really buy that line of *****?

          I've had it, I'm jailbreaking my touch. If a pirate-hacked-unlocked copy of 1.1.3 comes out, I'm gonna use it rather than paying Apple a dime...
    • SkylarEC, on 01/17/2008, -2/+1If it were the auto location feature, then the charge would also b applicable to the iPhone.
      • Patrikimo, on 01/17/2008, -1/+1It's possible they have to pay royalties to Skyhook, that are being covered in the subscription fee on the iPhone but not on the Touch, and that the development cost of the first few upgrades to Touch ate into the profit margins enough to validate a $20 fee. The new Touches pay for the royalties by not having to contribute to the development cost of the first few patches. All that being said the profit margin for apple is pretty huge and they could probably eat the cost. I don't think they owe anyone anything past what they promised at purchase time, but it would be nice if they did give it away.
    • kijiro, on 01/17/2008, -1/+3Microsoft defers income on the Zune, so they can give feature updates for free. Like Apple does with Apple TV and iPhone, but not the iPods.
  • Karmavs, on 01/17/2008, -11/+19I think it's kind of lame - but it's not the greedy money-grab that everyone seems to be making it out as.

    If these apps weren't on the iPhone originally, but were on the iTunes Store as optional software, for, say, $10 for mail & notes, and $5 for stocks and weather, there would be few complaints (note that that would cost 150% of the $20 update)
    The bottom line is this: You bought the iPod touch without these apps. It was worth what you paid for it then… If you think what the update brings is worth $20 to you - buy it. Otherwise, don't! There's no obligation on the part of apple for this to be free.

    Clearly though, there is absolutely no reason for someone not to sign a petition like this - who wouldn't prefer they be free?
    • burak1, on 01/17/2008, -1/+9I agree to an extent. None of the apps are any use to me (I use webmail) so there's no question of me paying $20. Even if they were free I wouldn't use them.

      But it does reflect badly on Apple's treatment of their customers. I bought the Touch soon after it came out, but the essential Smart Playlist feature didn't work properly until the latest update, three and a half months later. Then I find out I've got to buy new gear to use the TV out function because there's a special chip in the Touch that disables my old gear. Then they offer software for free to new customers, but their existing customers have to pay for the exact same thing. This is not the way to look after your customers.
    • sandbird, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1I bought my iPod Touch in October. When the easy jailbreak came out, I debated doing it, but I read of a lot of users that had stability issues and had to restore and re-jailbreak on a somewhat regular basis. There were other issues as well. I don't mind tinkering, but I don't like to spend a lot of time doing it.
      I went ahead and did the $20 thing. (Had some credit in the store anyway that I hadn't used in a while.) I really needed some of the functionality provided, and being able to get my mail offline is a huge plus for me. While I'm not happy about paying the extra money, the iPod has pretty much become my new PDA after this update. The real fun begins next month when the SDK comes out. If Apple allows distribution of independent apps for free (or allows developers to charge if they don't want to develop freeware) then everything will be well and good. However, if Apple insists on charging for distributing the apps, things could get really ugly.
    • DOGPARTY, on 01/17/2008, -0/+2actuallly i bought the touch because i knew i could hack it and install Mail etc
  • zorrobiwan, on 01/17/2008, -6/+2I'm still on 1.1.1 ... and have these applications ...
    Don't want to upgrade ...
    • TheWorm, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1People don't seem to know this, but there's a safe way to upgrade to 1.1.2. via the installer.
      • likwidfuzion, on 01/18/2008, -0/+1If you're currently on 1.1.1 you can do this:

        1. Install OktoPrep in Installer.app
        2. UPDATE to 1.1.2 (not restore, otherwise OktoPrep's modifications will be overwritten)
        3. Use the 1.1.2 jailbreak
        4. Done

        The differences between 1.1.1 and 1.1.2 are negligible so it's no big deal. However, going from 1.0.2 to 1.1.1 or 1.1.2 to 1.1.3 is a significant update.
  • mymate, on 01/17/2008, -4/+9***** look at micrsoft - when they released zune 2 they also gave firmware updates to previous generation with all new features - props to them for that.

    look at apple - ipod 5th gen dont even get movie rentals - where the ***** is the love apple. or will you give everyone what you should have given at the start in a few months just to look like your listening to your customers!
    • Chirp08, on 01/17/2008, -1/+2It's different, microsoft did that to appease it's customers, they were early adopters of a product that the industry pretty much ignored, and by doing that they nearly gaurenteed these people will upgrade in the future. Apple on the other hand doesn't need to do anything like that as they have already built their foundation, and their customers are actually willing to upgrade their ipods every 1-2 years.
      • Patrikimo, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1... And in summation, all corporations are greedy and if they're giving you something for free they either are trying to trick (i.e. installing a "secure" firmware) or someone has their nuts in a vice (i.e. no one owned a Zune for the longest time and they were going to fail mightily).
    • mrgreen4242, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1I'm as upset at Apple as anyone at the moment, but I do think that they specifically said 5G iPods would play the rentals. Maybe I misheard, though.
  • CharlesP2009, on 01/17/2008, -1/+4It won't be long until the hacker community gets that software out for free.
    • mymate, on 01/17/2008, -2/+2not reali the point bro
    • JonRick, on 01/17/2008, -1/+6They shouldn't have too.
    • Haecceity, on 01/17/2008, -0/+3It already is available. I have all those apps and more on my iPod Touch but if the hackers can't keep on figuring out how to jailbreak Apple's software jailbroken iPods will end up missing out on important OS upgrades.
      • likwidfuzion, on 01/18/2008, -0/+1There's always a way. It's just a matter of time. Perfect example is the PSP. It's all a cat and mouse game.
    • ThatsUnpossible, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1Translation == it won't be long before you can steal that software, right?
  • burak1, on 01/17/2008, -8/+15I just left this message on the Apple feedback page for the iPod Touch:

    $20? Seriously??

    You want to stop people hacking the system to put their own apps on there - you expect loyalty and yet you're not showing your existing customers any love. The mobile phone networks tried that in the UK a few years ago: be nice to new customers and neglect your existing customers. Well, in the end they lost a lot of money and customers. Even the Zune guys figured that one out.

    So, after rushing out to buy the 16GB Touch the day it came out I've spent 3 months putting up with Smart Playlists that don't work properly (essential for a device with such a small storage capacity). Then, the TV out gear I used for my old iPods is obsolete on the Touch because it lacks a certain chip. Now you're offering me the chance to pay for apps that come bundled on the exact same machines that are in the shops?

    I think my love affair with Apple products just ended. And to think I was looking forward to treating myself to a new MacBook Pro for my birthday this year.
    • Cyraq, on 01/17/2008, -2/+6I sent something similar as well. Very well said. Let's hope Apple returns to sanity.
    • Solkre, on 01/17/2008, -3/+9And they'll laugh when you sill buy that MacBook like a bitch.
    • chicagobiker, on 01/17/2008, -1/+2Well, that's very nice, but perhaps your time would be better spent telling your senator to repeal the Sarbanes-Oxley law which they passed that forces Apple to charge for upgrades to hardware they are not accounting for on an ongoing subscription basis of revenue.
      This is US law that the taxpayers wanted. Aren't you happy?
      • javaroast, on 01/17/2008, -0/+2B.S. This has nothing to do with Sarbanes-Oxley.

        http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1040_22-6151790.html

        "To be certain, GAAP does not require companies to charge customers," said Gerard Carney, a spokesman for the Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB), which updates and maintains GAAP standards for accounting. "Further, GAAP does not tell companies how to run their business," he wrote in an e-mail.
    • Fyrman21, on 01/18/2008, -0/+1Boo frickin hoo....
  • Tanbo, on 01/17/2008, -10/+5Free? Why should it be free. iPhone users are locked into a monthly contract, of which Apple gets a nice cut, so they are not getting it for free either. Apple TV users will be paying $2.99-$4.99 for movie downloads, so they aren't getting their update for free either. Apple is a for profit company, not a socialist regime. There is no recurring revenue being made off the iPod touch, in fact by offering owners this upgrade for only 20 bucks it means its less likely that these people will be going out and spending 200 or more on a new iPod every few years.
    Its very reasonable, what they are charging.
    I didn't hear anyone complaining when they had to pay for an upgrade to leopard, even though it came "free" on newly purchased macs.
    Stop whining.
    • JonRick, on 01/17/2008, -3/+5You're not getting a whole new OS, you're getting a few apps that SHOULD have been on the device when it was launched.
      • AsherW, on 01/17/2008, -1/+7and people who purchase the touch from now on, will get it for free while the price remains the same. Why screw people who bought it early and helped with initial sales?
    • Cyraq, on 01/17/2008, -3/+2And I suppose iPod Touch users don't buy music from the iTMS, whose sales reached 6 billion a week ago?
    • Kelmon, on 01/17/2008, -1/+2"Apple TV users will be paying $2.99-$4.99 for movie downloads"
      That's an awfully big assumption there. I agree that most probably will but it's not a guarantee, particularly if you live in a country with no iTunes Store (why you'd buy an Apple TV if this applies to you is a different issue) and yet you still get new features, like viewing photos from Flickr for free. There is no obligation to buy iTunes products when you own an Apple TV and there is no subscription so this SOX argument is, again, total *****. By the same argument you can say that owning an iPod compels me to buy music from the iTunes Store but I don't have to, do I?
      With respect to the Leopard statement, I was relatively happy to buy that because I understand that a lot of work went into it. In this case almost all the work went into pulling these applications from the iPhone software to begin with to differentiate it from the Touch more and now putting them back. They should have been there in the first place and it's insulting that we are expected to pay now.
  • NSResponder, on 01/17/2008, -18/+16Don't bitch at Apple about this, tell Paul Sarbanes.

    The reason they have to charge for feature additions to the iPod touch is because of the stupid accounting rules that were mandated by the Sarbanes-Oxley law.

    -jcr
    • fraggle35, on 01/17/2008, -4/+5But they don't have to charge $20, a token $1 would have got them round the law. They are getting greedy.
      • cthellis, on 01/17/2008, -1/+0I'm pretty sure it wouldn't, else the Sarbanes-Oxley measures wouldn't matter at all. (Excepting that any price would at least restrict "auto-updating.") If a "token $1" would be fine, why not a "token $0.01?" Is there some correlation between the price of the device, and the number of feature updates?

        What was it for the Airport Extreme update...? $5 for a ~$200 device? And with the iPod Touch it's $20 for 5 features in a ~$300 device? There might be a correlation.

        I'm skeptical that they HAD to go out to $20, too, but there's always that possibility that they're playing it safe since they've been under SEC scrutiny of late. I'd really like to see the internals of Sarbanes-Oxley that deals with this, though.
    • knuckles, on 01/17/2008, -3/+6Amazing. NSResponder is totally correct and Digg is suffering from a memory black-hole. Stop bitching about the $20 and start complaining about Sarbanes-Oxley law, otherwise this kind of pricing on upgrades is only going to get WORSE. Companies can now charge anything they want because of that damn law - blaming Apple and disregarding the existence of this law is really odd.
      • mrgreen4242, on 01/17/2008, -1/+3No, he's not right. There's already a lot of information that contradicted this "requirement" for the .11n updates and the larger issue is that there's nothing forcing them to charge $20 - they could have made it much, much cheaper.
    • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -10/+5What the ***** is all this Sarbanes Oxely crap. That got NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

      Don't believe me? http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/wireless/accountants-sa ...

      Consider this scenario:
      Kid: Dad give me $20
      Dad: Why son?
      Kid: Ummm uhhhhhhh Sarbanes-Oxely.....
      Dad: Ahhh yeah I heard of that law, that name sort of rings a bell. I'm not sure what its to do with exactly but I won't bother doing any research because I'm a lazy stupid *****, so here you go son, have fun..... *Dumm-Dee-Duummmm*


      • kijiro, on 01/17/2008, -1/+1Microsoft defers income on the Zune, so they can give feature updates for free. Like Apple does with Apple TV and iPhone, but not the iPods.
    • chicagobiker, on 01/17/2008, -4/+1Amen! It's Sarbanes-Oxley in effect here. Nothing else. This is a law everyone wants! Right?! ;)
    • javaroast, on 01/17/2008, -1/+3It has nothing to do with Sarbanes-Oxely. Absolutely nothing at all. Kijjro you can keep repeating your zune comment until the cows come home, but you are wrong plain and simple. The first Zunes were released over a year ago, and I'm certain MS did not defer the income for over a full year, yet those Zunes got an upgrade. See my earlier posts in regards to SOX. Apple is not forced by GAAP (which was the original excuse) to charge. Apple chooses to charge and that's the fact! If you are good with that, then fine, defend Apple's decision, but quit trying to make it look like their hands were tied... they aren't.
  • Elwayish, on 01/17/2008, -6/+1I KEEP SEEING PEOPLE SAYING ....... that the ipod will HAVE these apps on it if you buy it in the store "soon" with 1.1.3 updated on it outa the box ...... WHO is to say that the new updated will have the apps ... cuz you can have the 1.1.3 and NOT have the apps... i'm betting the new ones will be so ... 1.1.3 and no apps and you will still have to pay to get apps + new features ...
    • REBELinBLUE, on 01/17/2008, -0/+3I'm pretty sure Jobs said they would
    • SkylarEC, on 01/17/2008, -1/+1Steve Jobs (during MacWorld Keynote): "All the same stuff we just heard about on the iPhone -- on the iPod touch. Starting today we're going to build it into every new iPod touch, for existing iPod touch users it's going to be just a $20 upgrade."
  • Carniphage, on 01/17/2008, -10/+8The reason they can't upgrade for free is it would be against the law. This law : Sarbanes-Oxley http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes-Oxley_Act
    Apple *can* upgrade the phone and the Apple TV - because Apple sees the revenue as a monthly stream. But Apple has already recognised the cash from your iPod touch. So unless you pay more - they can't make it do more. They *can* issue free bugfixes, just not free upgrades.

    • JonRick, on 01/17/2008, -1/+10Then how did Microsoft update all the first generation Zunes with all the new features of the second gen Zunes, yet they didn't need to charge for it?
      • doctordbx, on 01/17/2008, -2/+3Stop messing with the Reality Distortion Field!
    • knuckles, on 01/17/2008, -1/+4It's called a loss-leader. MS was swallowing that cost to make the item more attractive.
    • alanr19, on 01/17/2008, -0/+2What the ***** is all this Sarbanes Oxley crap. That got NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

      Don't believe me? http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/wireless/accountants-sa ...

      Consider this scenario:
      Kid: Dad give me $20
      Dad: Why son?
      Kid: Ummm uhhhhhhh Sarbanes-Oxley.....
      Dad: Ahhh yeah I heard of that law, that name sort of rings a bell. I'm not sure what its to do with exactly but I won't bother doing any research because I'm a lazy stupid *****, so here you go son, have fun..... *Dumm-Dee-Duummmm*

    • BOFH139, on 01/17/2008, -0/+3From somebody who has been doing fecking SOX audits over the last 3 years, I can tell you that this is complete *****.....
  • BrentIrwin, on 01/17/2008, -12/+8Well, this is why iPhone is $100 more than iPod Touch. If it costs more money, don't complain if you have to pay to upgrade yours some.
    • aliguana, on 01/17/2008, -1/+3no, the fact that it's a PHONE is the reason for that.
    • knuckles, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1Actually, it has more to do with supply and demand. This is basic Marketing 101. MORE people WANT a phone so Apple can charge more for it. It already costs $200 LESS than when it was initially released and Apple still earns revenue from each iPhone every month. That revenue stream allows Apple to upgrade those units for *free* as per the rules outlined in the Sarbanes-Oxley law. Once you buy an iTouch Apple sees no more revenue from it which is where the Sarbanes-Oxley law kicks in, Apple *has* to charge for the upgrade. The **price** Apple charges is up to them, but if you don't like the upgrade price then who is really to blame here? Apple? They didn't make the law, they are just taking advantage of it.
    • johnpaul191, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1No, it's Sarbanes-Oxley. The iPhone has a subscription so you are constantly (in theory) paying for services. The iPod Touch is buy it and own it. Apple got hit for Sarbanes-Oxley violations before, so they are not taking chances now.
      This is like bitching to Apple that your local Apple store charges sales tax.
    • mrgreen4242, on 01/17/2008, -0/+1Er, or it could be the BlueTooth module, the CELL PHONE radio, the 2mp camera, the larger battery...
  • DrGamez, on 01/17/2008, -11/+6Vote with your dollar. Jesus christ it's $20. The iPhone dudes have been shelling out money every month, Apple already has their cut for the updates.

    If this $20 is such a big deal to you guys then I think you have a problem far larger than needing $20.
    • Edan25, on 01/17/2008, -1/+0No, dammit.
      For example, I bought my iPod in the US.
      iTunes store is not available here though, so I can't get the apps anyway.
  • mjpanzer, on 01/17/2008, -14/+7Boo hoo hoo 20 dollars
  • dominiccarr, on 01/17/2008, -4/+11Everyone who has a problem with this $20 charge should tell apple about it directly by heading over to the iPod Touch feedback page: http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipodtouch.html and emailing sjobs@apple.com.
    • triprotic, on 01/17/2008, -1/+0I did this as soon as I found out about the charge, but I doubt there will do anything :/
    • rgaino, on 01/17/2008, -0/+3Do you really believe that Steve's email is sjobs@apple.com and that he reads it?
      While you're at it, try bgates@microsoft.com or gbush@whitehouse.gov