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- twid, on 10/12/2007, -12/+7I'm a little suspicious since it isn't an actual link to a vmware site, but OK, I'll digg.
- twid, on 10/12/2007, -2/+32Oh I see, maybe this link would have been better :)
http://www.vmware.com/ - fredsterss, on 10/12/2007, -75/+4This is clearly not even on Job's radar. As the Boot Camp beta site says, BC will be integrated into Leopard. This VMware client is a simple clone of Parallels. I see no improvements whatsoever, and I am sure it uses the same WINE architechture that made Parallels possible. So really, this is something to be ignored.
- wastern, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17@ fredsterss
ignore? why
VMware is the best virtualization software out there, Its yet to be seen how it runs on the Mac, but if it runs as well as on other platforms I think It would be my first choice. I just signed up for the beta - ScottTFrazer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+26"and I am sure it uses the same WINE architechture that made Parallels possible."
And I am sure you don't know what you are talking about. WINE has absolutely nothing to do with Boot Camp, VMWare or Parallels Desktop. - EgoDemens, on 10/12/2007, -0/+29@fredsterss
My mouth is agape at your overwhelming stupidity. I don't even know what to start slamming you on, but here it goes: WINE has absolutely nothing to do with either VMWare or Parallels. You are clearly talking out of you ass. WINE is an implementation of the windows API for Unix based/clone systems. VMWare and Parallels are virtual machine environments that emulate an entire computer. Neither program has any use, and therefore has not based any work off, the technologies of WINE. Attempting to start a "they stole from so and so" argument on this subject is childish and ignorant, and you even ***** that up because VMWare has been around a hell of a lot longer then Parallels.
Boot camp is also it's own thing. It emulates a regular PC BIOS to allow straight booting of windows.
Lastly healthy competition is a good thing for the consumer, so the competition between Parallels and VMWare should be interesting for those benefiting. That's why it worth it.
Edit: Slow typing. Others pointed this stuff out too. - wowbagger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15@fressterss is the digg village idiot.
I'm amazed at how much inaccurate stuff he could cram into a paragraph. - astrosmash, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Hey you guys, stop feeding the troll already.
- fredsterss, on 10/12/2007, -22/+3The amusing thing is that you all missed the ACTUAL point of my comment, that is, this has nothing to do with the WWDC and will not be featured anywhere in Job's keynote. Objectivity is sometimes useful, instead of straight bashing.
- hemo, on 10/12/2007, -14/+2RSC02.NET and VMWARE.COM have the same registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, LLC.
Maby VMWare is collecting peoples e-mail adresses on rsc02.net?
Why would they not use the vmware.com-dmail to do this?
Hmm... - EgoDemens, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3@fredsterss again
Yes actually reading over your comment again and considering your new on I can vaguely see that you meant this has little to do with WWDC. This conclusion was however reached more with inference than objectivity. More importantly though you're still wrong and even more of an idiot. This is the Worldwide Developers Conference and one of VMWare's main selling points is "Development and Test Optimization". I'd like to think even you can see what those two might have to do with each other. Just in case though: VMWare allows developers, the very same that just might attend a developers conference like the WWDC, to build and extensively test their applications in virtual machines. This gives them a greater range of target platforms and scenarios. It allows them to do this on the same desktop and allows them to have the warm fuzzy feeling of knowing there in an established market leader to support them if something goes wrong. That's why it will probably be mentioned and that is why it's a strong alternative to things like BC and Parallels. - cleverboy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1mbookbay just messed up someone's campaign tracking something fierce... :-P
- dvddesign, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3@ hemo...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
WTF? They really both have Network Solutions as a registrar?
Congratulations! You just made my day. Here's a link for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclopedia_Brown
- twid, on 10/12/2007, -2/+32Oh I see, maybe this link would have been better :)
- ZogDog, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Man, I really hope this wasn't the, "...one more thing" because I just got screwed for my suprise damnit. Freak, I gotta stop reading things that say anything about WWDC or MacWorld...
- KibibyteBrain, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I wouldn't be too worried about that. As much as people like us would easily buy into this as a "...one more thing" surprise, I don't think the majority of the Mac user base would.
- lo0ol, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Nah, your surprise is still safe. Jobs wouldn't do his trademark end-keynote announcements for a product made by someone other than Apple, and especially not for a product that is more or less already here in the form of Parallels.
Though personally I'd call it Good News either way; the more focus on this area of OS X the better, in my opinion. Hopefully it'll just force all of the players to make their software better, faster, and more compatible.
- mbookbay, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I tried to submit the story to the actual VMWare homepage, but was blocked as someone a month ago had submitted a story for VMWare's official release of their Free Server product.
Guess Digg is getting more serious about cutting down on duplicate stories. - sys9five, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3So does this mean I will soon be able to emulate OSX in VMWare for PC and Linux?!?!
hmm....- johnjohnson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6No, why should this mean that? Parallels also has versions of their workstation for Windows and Linux and those don't support OSX as well.
I think that they could emulate it on a technical basis, but can't on a legal one as Apple hasn't released its operating system for any other system than Apple hardware. I'm pretty sure that to run OSX on a different platform you'd have to break Apple's EULA. - deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5You already can....
osx86project.org - Jugalator, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"So does this mean I will soon be able to emulate OSX in VMWare for PC and Linux?!?!"
Uhh, you already could. :-p - sys9five, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I mean can I do it easier! I know you can do OSX86, but, its a bit slow and not as easy to setup compared to just installing OSX in VMWare legit.
- johnjohnson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6No, why should this mean that? Parallels also has versions of their workstation for Windows and Linux and those don't support OSX as well.
- Darth, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3I wonder how this will fare with bootcamp. Specially for leopard. Though bootcamp isnt virtualizing, and rather running natively, many will prefer it to virtulized OS. None the less, good to see VMware are going foward with OSX, and did surprise me before how they never had a native client for mac os x even though its based off a BSD kernel.
- smcavoy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15dude Mac OS X is NOT based on the BSD kernel. its based on the mach microkernel. This probably the biggest misconception of OS X...
- wastern, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2@ smcavoy
and i quote
"the robust BSD environment that underlies Mac OS X"
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/unix/
while it mentions the microkernel as well, it still is BSD - Angostura, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13@wastern
Yes it uses lots of BSD 'user space' components and programs.
NO it doesn't use the BSD kernel; it uses Mach. smcavoy was correct.
Hope this helps. - Darth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Yes, its not wholly a BSD kernel (over there I actually wanted to say is based off BSD, rahter than based off a BASD kernel). I knew that. The kernel is XNU - which is a hybrid kernel based off Mach 2.5 as well as BSD 4.3 components.
- Darth, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1ok sorry about those bad spellings. my room lighting is all messed up and I am using this monitor lighting. I wish there was an edit feature after the allocated seconds :(
- davdav, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Sorry, but can anyone explain the difference between this and parallels?
- wastern, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10same thing, different brand name. you also will have access to all the VMware appliance and Virtual Machines that are already out there.
for instance you could just download an VM of ubuntu already setup from VMware's site, rather then taking the time to download and install like you'd do with parralles. there is a much larger community of users and a lot more experience behind the development - davdav, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Any word on a price point?
- TinFoil209, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Price point? $10 bucks says it will come with OS X 10.5 Server ;) My price point is a bet.
- wastern, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10same thing, different brand name. you also will have access to all the VMware appliance and Virtual Machines that are already out there.
- johnjohnson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8What advantages does VMWare have compared to Parallels?
Nice to see how there's the Parallels Workstation icon in the dock on VMWare's screenshot.- noeljohnhoward, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1haha yeah,
they probably used parallels alot before finishing their product. good to see its not open in that shot tho. that might make me a little suspecious - smcavoy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7VMware has been in development for close to 10 years, they produce excellent software. I've not used Parallels before so I can't compare.. but I've been using vmware products for years both at the workstation and server level... awesome software
- deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I suppose the best thing about it is the ability to use Vmware disk images natively between Windows, Linux and OSX. Also, Vmware Player will presumably be free as it is on Linux & Windows.
- KrocCamen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Parallels is nothing compared to VMWare. Parallels doesn't let you create multiple freeze states and then manage them as a visual tree from the original image. Parallels doesn't have a non-persistant disk mode, letting you set a machine up that discards all changes to the disk when you shut down (vital for doing software testing on a fresh copy of an OS every time)
- danbedford, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Ditto on the Parallels icon in the screenshot! haha
I'm sure there will be reviews comparing Parallels version 1.0 product to this initial beta of VMware for Mac OS X. Can't wait to see the comparisons, and if VMware can pull ahead of Parallels once they get up to a shipping version 1.0 (and I wonder where Parallels will be once VMware gets to version 1.0). - bigredgpk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I thought that was kindof ironic, VMWare running Parallel's. It's good that they know what they are up against though (keep your friend's close and your compitition closer). I would be interested in a head to head test when all is said and done.
Timmay - Sefirosu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Even if Parallels works fine, VMware's engine is much more mature. If we can get an indication from the Windows/Linux versions expect SMP support (usable due to the dual cores in most Macs), 64bit (with 64bit Macs), VM cloning, snapshots etc etc... These features are already available in the other versions of Workstation, which I'd expect that's the version they will release on OSX.
The snapshot feature is probably the most useful feature of the bunch especially if you are testing a lot within your virtual machines.
- noeljohnhoward, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1haha yeah,
- blake182, on 10/12/2007, -13/+2Nothing to see here.
- isdereks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Signed up for the beta... Should be an interested Keynote tomorrow.
- Psylo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Virtualization is the future ?
No, it's the present. Using only one OS is the past.
Next step, OSX on generic x86 arch.- davdav, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3osx86project.org
- wastern, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2using only 1 OS is the past for about 2% of the market. so as far as 98% of people are concerned its the future....and for a majority of those people it will never be needed
how about open-source is the future so all the apps can just be ported to every OS, thus eliminating the need to run 2 operating systems - boywhoatesouls, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2If Mac OS X truly is as useless as some people say then why is there an entire project dedicated to trying to install and run it on all sorts of strange combinations of hardware...?
That just doesn't make sense to me...
- Jugalator, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Good, now as for true hardware virtualization to let me run Windows games on e.g. DirectX 9 (and 10 when it arrives) without rebooting...? :-)
But yes, software virtualization is even more awesome than Boot Camp, as long as you don't need your hardware. - grimw, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Personally, this is awesome news for me. I'm doing some thesis work in Minix 3.0, and Parallels Desktop doesn't work correctly for networking in Minix (or some Minix network device driver code is broken).
Either way, Minix 3.0's networking only works in VMWare (and Bochs... slow) for me. This will help me get my thesis work finished even faster since I won't have to login to my Linux box over the network just to use VMWare! - BladeMelbourne, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Anybody know if it will run on PPC?
I always found VPC too slow and am curious...- wastern, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2no, it won't
VPC is as fast as you're going to get. these new ones are only faster because they don't need to emulate the x86 architecture like VPC does - grayapple, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Only way your gona get XP to run at an OK speed is to slap a load of ram in there and use a fast G4 or a G5, even then it won't run as fast as a standard Dell.
- BladeMelbourne, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I have 1 GB of RAM on a 1.42 GHz Mac Mini PPC.
Disk IO sucks, as does clock speed (in VPC). RAM is definately not the bottleneck. Oh well - thanks for the replies.
- wastern, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2no, it won't
- Angostura, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The interesting question, with reference to the differences between this and Parallels is whether VMWare will enable native 3D graphic acceleration. If so, gaming *might* be possible without rebooting into Windows.
If that were so, VMware would steal a lot of Parallels customers.- ScottTFrazer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If VMWare were going to introduce virtualization with 3d accelleration, they'd do it on their flagship desktop products first. It's not going to happen anytime soon.
- fjc8, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2http://www.vmware.com/community/message.jspa?messageID=328070
Actually, VMware has been working on 3D acceleration for some time now. It's still limited (Direct3D only, many features missing), but I imagine that their internal betas are much more functional.
- saturnring, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Great news indeed, but what happens if Apple starts giving out its machines with Parallels pre-installed? I for one, haven't tried out Parallels, but this was thought of as a possibility, when Apple stores started selling Parallels Software.
I have been using VMWare now for quite sometime, and its simply a wonderful product. - standsolid, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1anyone else see the parallels icon in the screenshot? in between textedit and word.
http://cdn.rsc02.net/ig.rsc02.net/responsysimages/vmwi/__RS_CP__/mac_screenshot_large.png
(i'm dumb -- http://www.digg.com/apple/VMWare_for_OS_X_Official#c2598480 ) - chrismcelligott, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1Is that a Parallels icon in the dock?
- steve228uk, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1August 7th they gotta be kidding! WWDC Duh!
- donlaverty, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1great, but where is the software the lets me use os x as guest os?
- grayapple, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2There isn't one - you can easily run OSX on a PC but it's highly illegal since Apple have it locked to their hardware.
- dbr_onix, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1tried to lock it to their hardware*
If you look in the comments up a bit, theres atleast 3 links to the site that allows you to do so (osx86 Project), theres a few drivers missing, but generally it works quite nicely
- Ben - grayapple, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1dbr_onix:
By locked I mean they only sell OSX on Apple Hardware - plus these hacked versions are just the leaked copy of Tiger from last year with intel OSX updates.
- hemo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I would love to have my existing virtual machines, created with VMWare, running on my MacBook!
- grayapple, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm sure it's just a matter of running the VMWare Image on OSX :).
- grayapple, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1VMWare was a fantastic product when I used a PC, it was fast but it didn't offer me any choices in gaming - but that's what happens :).
Now I wonder if Apple will jump into bed with the more experienced App or keep messing about with the twink it is now, - GabrielRadic, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0The domain vmware.rsc02.net looks like a phishing site.
I wouldn't put my address there.- brianmost, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1It's linked directly from the front page of VMWare.com -- probably not a phishing site :)
- Rayke8, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0The rsc02.net domain is owned by Responsys an email marketing solutions company. Seems they know how to target a tech crowd... at least techs that can't do a simple whois query when the domain name is obviously questionable.
- mib1969, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Responsys handles marketing campaigns, provides statistics and handles data aggregation for many companies. Just like many high traffic sites use Akamai to handle their server load, many companies use providers like Responsys to handle their marketing campaigns. This is NOT a spam or phishing site. The original URL is http://www.vmware.com/macos
- Quix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Bummer, beta only, and not yet available at that? I'd hoped VMWare had made more progress than that by now.
Here's hoping VMWare will be able to run Windows from the Bootcamp partition, unlike Parallels (without a tedious workaround, that is).
Two different robust virtualization apps (VMWare and Parallels) + Bootcamp = a big win for Mac users and Mac users-to-be. More market share - coming up! - cmost, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1First Parallels, now VMware...both of these companies have given Windows, Linux and now Apple a little love by gracing them with a native version of their excellent virtualization software! I hope one or both of these companies turns its attention to BSD (as in FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD.) The only thing keeping me from using FreeBSD as my full-time workstation OS of choice is the lack of an easy-to-use virtualization program such as VMWare or Parallels. I'm sure there are many others out there who agree.
- Kelmon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Bugger. I'm preparing to buy an Intel Mac once the Merom MacBook Pros are announced (please let that be today) and therefore bought a license for Parallels Desktop back when it was in Release Candidate stages and still half the expected price. I've signed up for the VMWare Beta so will try (assuming that I'm allowed by VMWare) to test both but will be somewhat annoyed at myself if I end up going with VMWare.
- Falken, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1What I would *REALLY* like to see is a virtual machine solution that would allow me to make virtual images of OS X and run them on my Macintosh desktop. As I do a fair amount of software/script testing, I would love to be able to test these on a fresh copy of the OS without having to reinstall OS X every time. Currently, I use drive shield for this, but would much prefer a virtualized solution.
- raghavdiggs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It gives an another alternative to run windows and especially Linux on the mac, and given vmwares performance and ease of use, this should be good. I would be real easy to carry your work from a vm on the windows machine to a vm on the mac. work and life simplified.
- manitoba98xp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I suspect that Parallels will be much cheaper...unless VMWare releases VMWare Player/Server for the Mac! That would be GREAT to convince friends to convert!
- scb0825, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Too bad I have a PPC mac...
- MechaFenris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I use GuestPC... it's not great, but it works quite well with just about any reasonably positioned OS (i.e. I bet Vista wouldn't work...)
I have a Win98 and a Slackware "PC" on my Powermac... I use the Windows98 guestPC to play Stars!, and I use the Slackware Box to fiddle...
But, the Mac Pros look schweet. ;) I guess I know what I'll be getting next spring. ;)
- MechaFenris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I use GuestPC... it's not great, but it works quite well with just about any reasonably positioned OS (i.e. I bet Vista wouldn't work...)
- cmer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I have been waiting for this announcements since the Intel Macs came out. Parallels is OK, but VMWare is -so- much better. I used it all the time on Windows and loved it. I'll finally be able to use all my pre-built virtual machines since Parallels never bothered making a VMWare-2-Parallels converter.
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