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See the original image at news.bbc.co.uk

Prius to be part solar powered

news.bbc.co.uk — Toyota is planning to add solar-powered air conditioning to high-end models of its Prius hybrid cars, a report says.

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  • sandeeptec, on 07/07/2008, -10/+41nice initiative
    • hutchy, on 07/07/2008, -0/+1Audi had the option of a solar panel in the roof for years on the S4
      • thatguyfred, on 07/07/2008, -6/+18Yeah, well Toyota ain't a ***** Audi.
      • AlexanderBlue, on 07/07/2008, -0/+4Thankfully. Even my nearly 20 Y.O. MR2 SC is more reliable than my POS Audi A6 2.7T was.
      • munkyxtc, on 07/07/2008, -0/+4If I recall Audi offered the same option Mazda offered [or vice versa] in the early 90's which used a solar panel to power a fan to vent the vehicle while parked, not to actually power the air conditioner. On a side note, this option is no longer offered on Audi Vehicles according to the audi website, and I have a feeling it might be a bit more popular these days with $4.00 gas

        Edit: I didn't RTA originally, it appears that they mention the Mazda option at the end of the article.
      • hutchy, on 07/07/2008, -8/+5Yep, just goes to show Toyota don't deserve the publicity they are getting for this supposed "innovation".
      • s1mph0ny, on 07/08/2008, -0/+1@AlexanderBlue:
        I would have put audi ahead of VW before your comment. Less reliable than an MR2?
    • WELLDOITLIVE, on 07/07/2008, -6/+3Dharma?
    • jabberwolf, on 07/07/2008, -3/+3And how effective is this?
      Is it more for show or efficiency?
      Seems like it might power the display or inside lights for a bit, but that's about all.
      So the cost of the solar panel versus the power gained from it, doesn't seem cost effective.

      Nice show (for propaganda - to sell to crowds that are like herds of sheep), but for utility it fails.
      Well, unless maybe you drive in the desert.

      • biotch, on 07/07/2008, -1/+7Well I can tell you this quote is completely off base
        "Even if you laid solar panels out on the entire roof of a house, you only generate enough energy to run two hairdryers,"

        maybe in Japan their houses are miniscule or something...
        At 1 kw/h per square meter from the sun and using panels that are 15% efficient my roof space could power the average (3 bdrm w pool) consumption of 2 california homes.
    • carlosos, on 07/07/2008, -0/+2Great idea IF(!!!) the A/C can cool down a car while parked in Florida summers to at least 90 degrees (the cooler the better). It won't help a lot for the mpg but everyone that is living in Florida knows how hot a car gets that is parked in the sun.
    • LightSpeed4, on 07/08/2008, -0/+1You obviously have no idea how big a solar panel is. They say the AC load is 3000-5000 watts, a 205 watt Kyocera ridig panel has a footprint of 16 square feet (59.1" x 39" x 1.4"), weighs 40 pounds, costs $905, and in full sunlight would supply less than 7% of the low end AC load. It would be smarter to add a bigger battery instead, that helps at night and on cloudy days.
    • specialK16, on 07/08/2008, -0/+1Call me when I can afford a Prius.

      (Price is at least 80% inflated in here.
  • rockus, on 07/07/2008, -9/+15I hope it launches in India when I am ready to own a car!
    • pak314, on 07/07/2008, -2/+19They are doing it already with some of the hybrids but the Indian government has a 104% tarrif on those things.
    • poet, on 07/07/2008, -16/+38I didn't know Indians were allowed to drive. I thought you used elephants or magic carpets.
    • xero69, on 07/07/2008, -1/+10I hope India realizes the value of mass transit, trains, and bicycles and designs their cities and communities around these things INSTEAD of cars. No reason for India to fall into the same oil trap as other developed nations such as my own (USA).
      • rockus, on 07/08/2008, -0/+2Mass transit is a bitch in our country. Overcrowded and filthy to say the least. The biggest problem is the government ownership of the the mass transit systems. They consider it as a service without profitable returns and tend to make the minimum maintenance. I use a bus for long distance commute or otherwise walk if there is no real urgency.
  • smartmlp, on 07/07/2008, -29/+155I hope everyone realizes that this is purely for show. The space avaliable on an average car roof MIGHT produce 160 watts in ideal conditions, this is enough power to run your headlights and probably nothing more. Even a small electric car like the tesla roadster uses a massive 180,000 watt engine. Do the math, a solar panel is a drop in the bucket. Toyota is doing this just to make themselves look better in the eyes of the public, its purely cosmetic and the average person wont see that. It is also worthy pointing out that AC in hybrid cars (and now some regular cars) are now electric rather than pully driven. This alone nets a huge increase in efficiency, and the AC probably uses less power than your 7 speaker stereo system.
    • rockus, on 07/07/2008, -9/+121Valid point. Then again its a start. If we start using a technology, the chances are improving it are manifold when compared to leaving it eternally in the drawing board.
      • ricksite, on 07/07/2008, -4/+13The technology can only take things to a point. After that, you have to improve physics.
      • pakruse, on 07/07/2008, -3/+13@ricksite: Improving physics would be nice, but we're nowhere near having cheap, high efficiency solar cells. Imagine if we could even begin to approach 80% efficient solar cells or anything close - consumer solar cells are currently closer to 15%, and the best research cells, IIRC, are just over 40%.

        In good sunlight, a decent rule of thumb is 100 W per square foot. If you assume 50 square feet of decent solar panels on top of the car (between the roof, the hood and the trunk), that's 5 kW of solar power. 15% efficiency yields 750 W, 40% yields 2 kW, and if we could get 80%, it'd be a 4 kW yield.

        It isn't enough to power the car during operation, but if you park in a lot like I do all day, it's enough to recharge the car for commuting to and from work everyday (I'd think a plug-in car would be a better idea, but I imagine my employer might frown on me stealing electricity, and there isn't an outlet at my parking spot at my apartment).
      • ricksite, on 07/07/2008, -9/+7@pakruse: I don't think I was quite clear. My point is that in order to make car top solar panels viable, you would have change the laws of physics, which you can't. The amount of energy to move a car is an order of magnitude higher than the amount of energy hitting the car in the sun. Due to these hard limits, car top solar is a waste of time and resources.
      • pakruse, on 07/07/2008, -1/+13@ricksite: For runtime use, yes. However, if your car sits under open sun all day, it could be a viable recharge method for a battery. If your car sits in the sun for 10 hours during the day, then using the numbers above (with what are currently consumer available) and assuming good sunlight, you're recharging about 7.5 kW-hours.

        It isn't viable as the only power source for your car, but 7.5 kW-hours is enough for my drive home and then back to work the next day.
      • zoom1928, on 07/07/2008, -3/+2> if your car sits under open sun all

        And how many cars in a city are parked in the sun during the day? 5%?
      • Charlesbian, on 07/07/2008, -1/+3think about it this way. hybrids (especially the prius) will continue to grow to a point where they will have the majority of the commuter market share. imagine the amount of solar panels toyota will purchase per year. Not only will all that money be pumped into further solar research, but the public consciousness of solar technology will increase and become more readily accepted by the public, especially when the previously mentioned money from toyota and other car companies imitating the prius will bring solar panels to a relatively cheap level from what it is now.

        biggest mistake when thinking about technology is being too short sighted. maybe this won't happen in the next 10-15 years, but this could be an important step to changing the entire face of the energy market.
      • Kormiku, on 07/08/2008, -0/+2you are absolutely correct, rockus. bring on the solar panels!
    • Hosalabad, on 07/07/2008, -6/+19Well, a 7 speaker factory system might use less than 160 watts itself. It's not like they are powerful.

      It's a start, and I hope it will charge the batteries when the car is off too.
      • ColorBlind, on 07/07/2008, -1/+8Exactly what i was thinking. I leave my truck sitting outside all day long while i'm at work. Maybe the car could charge itself rather then leaving it plugged in forever and raising my electric bill every month.
      • marx2k, on 07/07/2008, -0/+3They already sell solar battery chargers. I think I heard they work like crap.
        http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1 ...
      • fishfugu, on 07/08/2008, -0/+0Solar cell technology has come on in leaps and bounds in the last 18 months - and its about to get a whole lot cheaper... So those worried about ongoing costs, shouldn't be.

        If Toyota were REALLY smart they'd make the panels easily upgradeable, because the improvements in solar panels themselves are hitting the sharp curve on the exponential scale - and are about to take even bigger leaps in efficiency than we've seen in the last few years.

        They probably won't though.
    • GreyICE, on 07/07/2008, -5/+71Actually, the engines rarely run at 180,000 watts. That's absolute full acceleration power, and would drain any battery quite quickly.

      The solar panels will be charging the storage even when the car is off (or should be), and will add nice supplemental power.

      Yes, we're probably only talking 2-5% if you leave it in the sun all day (5 kWh/m^2/day, or so) but it's a nice bonus.
      • minoss, on 07/07/2008, -2/+3And what about the cost and maintenance of such a system? What about hail? There are a ton of potential costs here with very little potential benefit at this point.
      • Paulish, on 07/08/2008, -0/+1Forgot your jumper cables? Leave the car in the sun!
    • Stormwern, on 07/07/2008, -8/+30It's not completely for show, means you can leave the AC on all day and have a cool car whenever you need it. Doesn't really matter if you're wasting solar energy.
      • stealthc, on 07/07/2008, -5/+76And it's people like you who are needlessly depleting our precious, finite resources in the Sun. That thing's only good for another 5 billion years *****!
      • marx2k, on 07/07/2008, -3/+12Except then you have accelerated freon leakage
      • speedyrev, on 07/08/2008, -0/+3Not to be picky, but cars don't use freon. That was a brand that has been out of use for over a decade. Second, running the A/C does nothing to accelerate leaks. Driving vibrations and body flex causes leaks. The possible downside of running your AC full time is putting premature wear on your compressor or fan motor.
    • schneb, on 07/07/2008, -2/+20Here in SoCal, if it were enough just to run an exhaust fan for interior heat reduction while parked, that would help some. Although the price increase would make such a very poor investment.
      • BeatPunchbeef, on 07/07/2008, -1/+3The Aptera (made in Carlsbad) uses solar to keep the interior at 75* no matter how hot it gets outside. Killer idea, I could use that up here in Sac.
      • yoda17, on 07/07/2008, -0/+4A better solution would be to park in the shade.
      • domomike, on 07/07/2008, -0/+3A few high end cars have had this feature as an option for quite some time. (Including the Audi A8.)
    • jsauter, on 07/07/2008, -5/+54Every little bit helps. That should be the mantra around moving to a 'green' society.

      One of the biggest problems I see with the switch to low environmental impact technology is that many assume it has to be 100% right away. Taking small steps makes the transition easiery, cheaper and more likely to be successful. When you dismiss new technologies because they don't fulfill a need completely you will never open your door to change.
      • ricksite, on 07/07/2008, -15/+7Every little bit doesn't always help. It is a nice saying but nothing more. Sometimes the little bits are bad. Other times the little bits are worthless and take away effort from the little bits that matter.
      • honesttussey, on 07/07/2008, -3/+3Ok ricksite I'm convinced you're a troll. Do you work for Exxon?
      • starbuxadct, on 07/07/2008, -1/+2Have any examples of that?

        Wait... let me rephrase.

        Have any good examples of that? Ones that do not fall into the 'hindsight is 20/20' category.
      • flavioribeiro, on 07/07/2008, -4/+4ricksite isn't a troll. The problem is that the rest of you don't know what you're talking about.

        The solar panel really is a drop in the bucket, and it's not environmentally friendly to produce. But I'm an electrical engineer, so what do I know, right?

        A lot of diggers fancy themselves the computer science types, so maybe they'll understand this: use Amdahl's "law".
      • jsauter, on 07/07/2008, -0/+3Starbuxadct:

        OK, one example - Turning your AC down 2 degrees is a lot easier, cheaper and more likely to be successful than replacing all the oil powered electricity plants in North America with Fission/Solar/Wind plants in the short term.

        Another example - Buying a more fuel efficient vehicle the next time you need to purchase a vehicle will save you more money and consume less in fuel then waiting for hydrogen/solar/plugin powered vehicles to become dominant in the industry.
      • starbuxadct, on 07/07/2008, -0/+2Meant to direct that at "ricksite"

        ::blushes::
        :)
      • jsauter, on 07/07/2008, -0/+1After reading your profile I figured you were not commenting to me. Stupid Digg and it's inability to comment deeper then 3!
    • stealthc, on 07/07/2008, -4/+12So are you one of those people who bitch about your favorite indie band "selling out" when they achieve even the slightest bit of success?

      The limitations of a solar energy system is not Toyota's fault. Yes it makes them look good. But all this "green" BS is mostly marketing in the first place, so what's the big deal?
      • m0neybags, on 07/07/2008, -0/+2The price of gas has doubled in the last couple of years and these technologies are going to be quite important in the near future. When these cars can be produced for the same price as those which use 5 times as much gas, companies like toyota stand to sell many more cars than their competition. Hybrids are in great demand right now, and there are recent innovations in solar technology that promise to make it much more powerful. Toyota is preparing itself for the time when solar energy can be relied upon to put out a lot more wattage.
    • hollering, on 07/07/2008, -0/+1The question in my mind is how much cost is being added to the car to run the A/C on solar power? Is it really worth it? If it's a small net loss for Toyota or small extra expense to the buyer, it still might be worth it only because it could pave the way for future implementations with solar panels that could prove to be more efficient.

      Personally - I'm more inclined to love the idea of Tesla perfecting their model of collecting solar in a battery and using that battery to charge the car. It just needs to be done much more quickly than it is now, and then they need to work on getting costs down so they can enter the mass market. I'm sure this is all at the top of their agenda already - they seem to be a pretty sharp group.
    • vanguardanon, on 07/07/2008, -3/+26Everybody is thinking of this in terms of running power. I think of it in terms of storing power. I'm in North Carolina and it's hot as blazes out there. If every car was silently charging its batteries while they sat in the parking lot than perhaps we could drive the 12 miles back to our houses without burning a drop of gas?

      Think of it as a plug-in hybrid that plugs into the sun. Why wouldn't this be a good thing?
      • bigsteve, on 07/07/2008, -2/+2It would, but with current solar power technology, this would be a true drop in the bucket. Having it run something like the AC does make more sense.

        Not that I think this is worthless, like others have said before, tech improves with adoption. When production solar panels reach today's theoretical / lab output capacity, we might start to have something here.
    • BESTenemy, on 07/07/2008, -4/+9Good point. An average electric car today consumes close to 30 kW of energy an hour. A solar panel covering car's rooftop would get about 100 W/h which is 0.3% energy needed to run the car. To put that into perspective. Assume the sun shines for 12 hours straight, unobscured. You let the solar panel charge the car. It'll take 28 days to get enough energy for 1 hour of operation. Even increasing the solar power efficiency to 100% (which is unlikely in our lifetime) would amount to days of charging for every hour of driving.

      The most practical use for solar panels would be to prevent batteries from discharging while the car's sitting idle. The practical usage ends there. The Prius add-on is a gimmick and nothing else.
      • subliminalurge, on 07/07/2008, -1/+5But what if that one hour of operation is enough to cover my commute time for 12 of those 28 days? (My commute is only about 5 minutes if I have light traffic.)

        That's almost 1/3 of the total that doesn't have to come from the gasoline engine or the grid. That's beyond the "gimmick" stage if you ask me.
      • marx2k, on 07/07/2008, -1/+115 minute commute? Dude... bicycle...
      • subliminalurge, on 07/07/2008, -1/+2Impractical, for a variety of reasons.

        And then there's the fact that I'd just plain rather drive.
      • minoss, on 07/07/2008, -1/+2So you drive for 1 hour every 28 days? Then maybe do a little math and determine the cost you're paying for such a system vs what it saves you. I doubt you recoup your costs within your lifetime.
    • JigoroKano, on 07/07/2008, -1/+13The Solar panels provide orders of magnitude less power than the engine requires at an instant in time, but on average my car is parked in the sun orders of magnitude longer than it is driven.
    • Barackalypse, on 07/07/2008, -1/+8That Tesla motor wattage you quote is misleading, it actually only uses about 213 watts per mile (4.7 miles per kilowatt hour)
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster
      • j33pn, on 07/07/2008, -0/+3That would be Watt hours, not Watts. 213 Watts implies the amount of energy used by a 100 Watt light bulb in 2.13 seconds.
    • ez12a, on 07/07/2008, -1/+1The Prius uses HID lighting, which at the most uses 55w. both together only 110w.
      • j33pn, on 07/07/2008, -2/+0Don't all cars use 55 Watt bulbs? I think that is an industry standard.
    • diggB, on 07/07/2008, -2/+9I would argue that even if the panels only generated 160 Watts, that's 160 Watts times the number of hundreds of thousands of cars that will be sold in total power savings. Like it's been said before, every bit helps.
      • minoss, on 07/07/2008, -0/+3And would cost hundreds of millions of dollars.
      • diggB, on 07/07/2008, -1/+2Point well taken. In terms of dollars spent, there are likely better ways to save energy; however, I think that as more and more of the panels are built, their efficiencies will improve and manufacturing costs will be reduced.
    • poet, on 07/07/2008, -1/+6I suppose your title is "Lead Solar Researcher" and you're employed by Toyota, right? So you made the car and know all the specifics and can validly compare them with the Tesla Speedster that you brought up. (FYI, in conversation when people mention something that has nothing to do with the current subject it's clear sign that he/she has no idea what the ***** they are talking about, i.e. you)
    • MindStalker, on 07/07/2008, -4/+4Ok this is simple math.
      You can look up any review on the Prius and they will tell you that it gets less than 30mpg with the AC on and up to 50mpg with the AC off.
      According to the article the AC uses between 2-5KW.
      If you drove 1 hour a day and got 6 hours of good sunlight a day on a 200W solar panel you'd gain about 1.2KWh of power. Assuming it uses a low loss battery you can expect about 0.8KWh of actual usable energy.
      This might get you from 30mpg to 35mpg with the AC on. Hopefully they can work on the efficiency of the AC, which could be improved with better ventilation, UV tented windows, etc.
      • EtherGnat, on 07/07/2008, -1/+3"You can look up any review on the Prius and they will tell you that it gets less than 30mpg with the AC on"

        I call BS. Not only does that seem totally ridiculous on its face, but the reviews I found all indicated MPG in the 40s with the AC on.
      • EtherGnat, on 07/07/2008, -0/+2Who dugg me down? A typical car loses about 3% efficiency when running the AC. Mindstalker expects us to believe the Prius loses twelve times that much or more. If you can "look up any review" and find that information I'd love to see it, because everything I find contradicts that completely.
      • jermm, on 07/08/2008, -0/+1I get about 45MPG on long trips with AC on, with me driving (not the most fuel-efficient driver...).
      • s1mph0ny, on 07/08/2008, -0/+1Ethergnat: A Prius is not a typical car, that's kind of the whole point. As for 40s with the ac on: the Prius doesn't do any better than 45 with the ac off. Try taking your averages from a Civic CX instead of a Hummer H2, and you might come up with numbers more meaningful. AC for a passenger area is a lot more of an efficiency problem for a 70hp engine than a 200+ one.
    • ricksite, on 07/07/2008, -2/+3Solar panels are only around 12 watts per square foot. If this is such a great idea, how come no one has ever done it?
      • LilRabbitFooFoo, on 08/11/2008, -5/+1Big Oil.

        And there has been no reason to charge a gas powered car....before now.
      • NuchDog, on 07/07/2008, -1/+2"If this is such a great idea, how come no one has ever done it?"

        Wow!!!
      • ricksite, on 07/07/2008, -0/+4Big oil is keeping people from modifying their cars to run off solar power?
      • s1mph0ny, on 07/08/2008, -0/+1At only 10 watts/foot and about 10 sq feet, that's still 120 watts. Enough to run a set of normal headlights. Also enough to gather about 1KW while your car sits 8 hours at work.
    • xutopia, on 07/07/2008, -0/+1Although you do have a point one of the good things about this solar panel is that you can have free cooling of your car while it is parked. Essentially forgoing that 3 minute of opening all the windows to get rid of the heat.
    • LilRabbitFooFoo, on 08/11/2008, -0/+5Ahem. It's about CHARGING the battery when it is just sitting there, not providing significant running power.

      Leaving it charging all day would save you MONEY by not paying for the battery charging through your local utility...and it would be free...forever.
    • pedo, on 07/07/2008, -1/+5um, did you even bother to read the description? it clearly states that it's for the air conditioner. obviously the solar panel is not going to run the whole damn car.
    • PhrozenDemon, on 07/07/2008, -0/+0You are wrong there are Solar solutions for priuses now that provide up to 20 miles of travel from solar power. Look for solar prius on google.
    • xero69, on 07/07/2008, -0/+1Hey if solar AC gets more horsepower to the ground I am not going to complain. Many race teams already use electric water pumps to free up horsepower. The fewer accessories taxing the motor the better!
    • Bkaufman, on 07/07/2008, -1/+2I am in school to be an electrical engineer, and the level of ignorance by people who claim to know what they are talking about is astounding. I wouldn't tell my accountant that I know more about tax code than him, so why do people try to pass off being experts about things online that they clearly know little to nothing about. The original poster is absolutely correct. This is a marketing move and nothing more, and the sad thing appears to be that it is working. Note that there is nothing wrong with being interested in things that you aren't very knowledgeable about, but just please don't pretend to know more than you do.
    • Ziziros, on 07/07/2008, -0/+1you have a point, but still it is something.
      even if it doesn't produce much energy, why not have it?
      at leat you get a little extra something.
      and it is a start. hopefully when people start to realize this is a valid idea more will be done to improve solar tech.
    • fishfugu, on 07/08/2008, -0/+0Stop being so negative.

      Nothing has to be whole answer - that's the whole point of "hybrid". Every little bit counts... across thousands of cars, even a 1% saving is a lot of power as a whole, to the environment.
    • unitedatheism, on 07/08/2008, -0/+1I hope you realize you're wrong.
      Expect 200 or a little bit more watts/hour on a car (my opinion, you can use your 160 if you rather)
      First, this X watts were going to be transformed into heat, while when captured by the PV panel, it will turn into usable electricity, so you rather have a hot car or having your batteries fulfilled for free? Often this is more desirable not just because you can make use out of it immediately, but not being fried by the sun.

      Then, you spend 15 minutes driving home/work, the car then is under the sun the whole day and then you get back. Supposing you're using 20hp/hour in your car, that's 13kwatts/hour, so you've spent 6.500 watts going and getting back home/work, but then you had 9x200 (or 160) power refilled in your "tank", which is 1800 watts, you can say that this could save up to 15% of your 'gasoline', again not mention you'll have less reason to turn the AC on.

      One of the drawbacks of having PV panels is that they have to be converted back to AC, which is how the electronics at your home expect energy to be delivered, in the case of a solar pannel charging a battery this can be done with a lot less of effort and loss.

      So if you don't fancy it, okay, just buy to avoid sun's heat, not because it will or won't give you any benefit!
  • Berkana, on 07/07/2008, -3/+52The Prius can be hacked to be far more solar powered than just having the AC driven by solar power. The entire rooftop can be covered in PV material. See this white paper on the fuel efficiency gains on solar-hacked Prii (or Prioria or whatever the plural of 'Prius' is.)
    http://www.solarelectricalvehicles.com/articles/pr ...
  • Pittance, on 07/07/2008, -11/+4Hot summer nights. Uh-oh, loophole!
  • OC73, on 07/07/2008, -34/+6I still have no use for one of those crammed ugly things.
    • BinaryFragger, on 07/07/2008, -4/+29Crammed? The Prius is as roomy as the average midsize car.

      Let me guess, you're one of those people who 'needs' a Hummer to haul 3 bags of groceries?
    • metalbabble, on 07/07/2008, -6/+4don't say anything negative about the prius on digg :)

      i guess i'm off to buryland too.
    • Slovenian6474, on 07/07/2008, -3/+5I need one to sneak up and hit small children crossing the street.
    • t4ll3y, on 07/07/2008, -0/+3I rode in a Prius the other day. It was as roomy as any other car I've been in, and I'm 6'1.
    • breezy421, on 07/08/2008, -0/+0I own a Prius. And I didn't get it because it's a hybrid, either... I got it because unlike most small to mid sized cars, it has a HUGE amount of cargo room w/ the hatchback and the fold-down back seats so I can fit my entire full sized drum set it the back, comfortably, not to mention when my sister and I go out with our friends, we take my Prius instead of her fully loaded '07 Mustang because it is way comfier, has a better sound system AND is roomier. I am 5'11" btw ...

      OH and I almost forgot... it has built in GPS (works way better than the GPS units you buy in stores), bluetooth and back up camera... plus I get about 45 mpg.

      I'm curious, what are the specs of your car, OC73?
  • Realnemesis, on 07/07/2008, -6/+41Don't Park in the Shade.
    • pintomp3, on 07/07/2008, -1/+16but it's cooler in the shade.
      • thatguyfred, on 07/07/2008, -18/+2We won't need AC if it is cooler. What now hippies?
  • Mustard911, on 07/07/2008, -25/+2I heard hybrid cars are dangerous due to the magnetic fields they generate. Like living under high transit power lines.

    Also they have a lot of lead in them to cut the fields down, but the fields are still bad for health. People are know to experience sleeping disorders and even go to sleep whilst driving. Then there's the risk to cells and pregnant women.
    • GreyICE, on 07/07/2008, -3/+14That is complete and utter nonsense, unscientific woo. Do you believe in homeopathy and crystal therapy too?

      Don't spread this nonsense pap around and pretend its real science, much less somehow true.
      • thatguyfred, on 07/07/2008, -8/+2http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/automobiles/27EM ...


        Sorry, you're WRONG
      • GreyICE, on 07/07/2008, -1/+10The article was named: Fear, but Few Facts, on Hybrid Risk

        Wow, you're an idiot. This was probably the closest link you could find to a mainstream source, the rest were from Prison Planet or CrystalHealing.net (right next to the articles on vaccines causing autism and Big Business suppressing the water cars).
      • dagnome1984, on 07/07/2008, -0/+1Poisoning the well much?
    • Futurejunior, on 07/07/2008, -4/+11I also heard believing unfounded rumors gives you cancer...that's just what I heard
    • BuddingMonkey, on 07/07/2008, -1/+8[citation needed]
    • pak314, on 07/07/2008, -3/+4I was driving by a (perhaps home built) electric car once and my radio got cut off due to all the electrical noise they generated on acceleration.
    • marx2k, on 07/07/2008, -0/+3Don't worry. You can now purchase the leading hybrids with the in-cabin tin foil hat option. They're coming out with driver-side tin-foil hat standard next year. Passenger-side will still cost you.
  • FuckXboxx, on 07/07/2008, -15/+9But it still uses gas?
    • saleem, on 07/07/2008, -3/+21yes, it's a 'hybrid'.
    • SkippyDoorknob, on 07/07/2008, -5/+4It's a hybrid, so yes it still uses gas.
    • ricksite, on 07/07/2008, -1/+12Apparently we will do anything in the US to stay away from diesel.
      • secrity, on 07/07/2008, -7/+4I know that I will do everything I can to stay away from diesel. Diesel is a nasty, smelly fuel.
      • ricksite, on 07/07/2008, -0/+2Thanks for making my point secrity! Diesel is not nasty and smelly like it once was but that doesn't stop people from believing it is.
      • web2pointYo, on 07/07/2008, -0/+9I think that fact that diesel shot up around 64% over the last year pretty much killed any hope of mass adoption in the US.
      • marx2k, on 07/07/2008, -1/+1web2point.. but is the price increase beyond the mileage increase from diesel?
      • domomike, on 07/07/2008, -0/+4No. The price increase (which is still increasing at a monster rate) extends beyond the benefits received by the higher mileage engines. Also, the cost of purchasing a brand new diesel car to get better mileage (on more expensive fuel) won't be worth it after a few months as the prices are continuing to rise (and diesel's price rises more substantially.)

        THAT is why we will do anything in the US to stay away from diesel.

        We'd rather wait for the electric cars coming soon from BMW, Audi, and Mercedes (and inevitably Honda, Toyota, GM and Subaru.)
  • unitedatheism, on 07/07/2008, -5/+18Power generate fromk solar panels: 250watts/hour
    Power not converted into heat due to solar panels: 250watts/hour
    Perhaps you may even not use it to driver the air conditioner (we all know that 250 watts is not enough for any ac) and it will still be a good choice, like parking under the sun and having your car to heat half what one regular one should.
    The sad part will likely be the price tag on it...
    • ricksite, on 07/07/2008, -4/+2"Power not converted into heat due to solar panels" I am not sure what you are getting at here. The solar panels are assisting the air conditioner, which is essentially heat pump. It is just moving the heat from one place to another.
      • wem003, on 07/07/2008, -0/+2He's trying to say that the heat is not absorbed because the solar panels use the solar radiation instead of a normal roof absorbing it - thus heating the car up.

        At least I think thats what he means...
    • MaskedSlacker, on 07/07/2008, -2/+2Nice to see how ignorant you are.

      What the hell is a watt/hour? Perhaps you meant a watt-hour/hour? Which would simply be a watt. A watt is already a per second unit. Joule/sec = watt. Wattage is a rate of energy production, not an amount.

      Also, your car heating half what a regular one would? Cars heat from incident radiation through the windows, not the walls of the car. The incoming and outgoing radiation are different wavelengths, and the glass is more transparent to the incoming that the outgoing. Thus the car traps the heat from sunlight through the windows.
  • Masternajee, on 07/07/2008, -3/+24Excellent idea. Sun is something that we need to use more of.
  • EWChomp, on 07/07/2008, -6/+1http://digg.com/environment/Toyota_To_Offer_Solar_ ...
  • Mustard911, on 07/07/2008, -16/+3http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/automobiles/27EM ...

    "The flow of electrical current to the motor that moves a hybrid vehicle at low speeds (and assists the gasoline engine on the highway) produces magnetic fields, which some studies have associated with serious health matters, including a possible risk of leukemia among children."

    "Neysa Linzer, 58, of Bulls Head in Staten Island, bought a new Honda Civic Hybrid in 2007 for the 200 miles a week she drove to visit grocery stores in her merchandising job for a supermarket chain. She said that the car reduced her gasoline use, but there were problems — her blood pressure rose and she fell asleep at the wheel three times, narrowly averting accidents."
    • ExplorerNation, on 07/07/2008, -1/+2You should note that the title of the linked article is: "Fear, but Few Facts, on Hybrid Risk".
    • HappyScrappy, on 07/07/2008, -0/+5Electric commuter trains (like subways, etc.) produce far larger magnetic fields than this.

      So if you're worried about this, you're going to find trouble everwhere.
      • Mustard911, on 07/07/2008, -3/+3And that's why a lot of Countries have secretly removed conductors who would be exposed for long durations of the fields.

        It's up to you if you want to be in these cars or not, but beware first. Let others know and make the choice too when introducing them to your car.

        Global Warming is a crock anyway. Just a period of the 11 year cycle of the sun. We are now going into the Cold 11 year cycle. Oil prices are caused by Speculators in Wall Street, production decline at the refineries in Western Nations, and some increase in demand in say China. China and India aren't the problem though as the number of cars they have is so small compared to America.

        Global Warming is a political slogan used to bring a new currency/tax to balance world trade and debt on placed like China and India who are to be the slaves of production, whilst others do nothing.
      • DesignNerd, on 07/07/2008, -0/+3Staring at your cup of soup in the microwave also produces adverse health effects.
        As does standing in the sun,
        and talking on a cell phone,
        and city air.

        Being alive causes adverse health effects.
      • HappyScrappy, on 07/07/2008, -1/+4Forgive me mustard911, I didn't realize you were a crackpot. I apologize for taking you seriously.
      • marx2k, on 07/07/2008, -0/+1"Just a period of the 11 year cycle of the sun. We are now going into the Cold 11 year cycle."

        Source?

        "China and India aren't the problem though as the number of cars they have is so small compared to America."

        But growing at a crazy rate.

        "Global Warming is a political slogan used to bring a new currency/tax to balance world trade and debt on placed like China and India who are to be the slaves of production, whilst others do nothing."

        And if you keep repeating that mantra, you might even sound believable.
    • sandfish, on 07/07/2008, -0/+2You also need to take into consideration that were living in a massive electromagnetic field right now thanks to Earth's molten / iron core. If there were serious health risks relating to strong magnetic fields... all life should have been dead quite a while ago...
  • cshields, on 07/07/2008, -1/+18Quite a few people have already done this to their prius. I got to see one in person a couple of month back done by Bob Bruninga, who put up a decent web page on how he did it: http://eng.usna.navy.mil/~bruninga/APRS-SPHEV.html
  • bunki8, on 07/07/2008, -2/+6They could also start coating the windows with photovoltaic material soon:

    "In particular, IBM and TOK will investigate whether thin-film solar cells could be directly deposited on tinted windows and other glass materials."
    -- http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id ...

    This is just one venture looking at coating windows - many others are in progress. They're also looking at coating buildings, ships, cars, etc with some other substances in development. The future is bright....get it? bright?...forgive me
  • thatguyfred, on 07/07/2008, -2/+42Solar powered cold. Can it get any more awesome?
    • marx2k, on 07/07/2008, -0/+6Dark powered heat would be my bet.
      • thatguyfred, on 07/07/2008, -0/+4Touche my good man.
        Dark Matter is supposed to have unfathomable energy. So it could come to fruition, in several thousand years.
    • cactus476, on 07/07/2008, -0/+1Stirling engine?
  • serif69, on 07/07/2008, -22/+82I thought the Prius was powered mostly by smugness.
    • jazzviolin, on 07/07/2008, -13/+1south park. they smell their own farts.
    • rogre, on 07/07/2008, -1/+2If so, George Cloony's car can run forever.
    • smpx, on 07/08/2008, -0/+1No no, it's output is smugness. It runs on envious glares.
      • brownr21, on 07/08/2008, -0/+1It also radiates testicular cancer.
  • OffPiste, on 07/07/2008, -13/+5Sad. Then again what this really proves is the lack of basic science and math education in the US.
    • Slovenian6474, on 07/07/2008, -1/+7What? You do realize this is a Japanese designed car. Plus it's not even being reported by a U.S. publication! I swear, people love to bash the U.S. on things that have nothing to do with them in the first place.
  • IAmTheGuy, on 07/07/2008, -6/+24All you naysayers do realize that the little bit of energy adds up, right?
    • mike17032, on 07/07/2008, -6/+2To nothing useful.
    • Barackalypse, on 07/07/2008, -2/+4The question is, for the money, is there a better way? Would simply adding another kilowatt hour to the battery accomplish the same thing for less money, with less manufacturing hassles, and have benefits that are full time, not just when the sun is out? Solar doesn't make sense for fixed residential installations in sunny states without all the State and federal tax credits, why would non-rebated installation on a vehicle thats probably just as likely to not be used in one of those sunny States be cost effective?
      • fantasticjon, on 07/07/2008, -2/+4Not "for the money". "For the money" you might as well just burn gasoline. The point is to push the envelope. It might not be cost effective now, but that does not mean we should try new things, then improve them later. If you want "for the money", then go buy a used geo metro.
  • jazzviolin, on 07/07/2008, -7/+39Route solar panels energy to electric switch on rims.

    "THEY SPiNNIN' ******, THEY SPINNIN'!"
    - c.rock
  • zacharytelschow, on 07/07/2008, -3/+10So... They're adding enough solar panels to power a light bulb in order to jack the price up. Almost no value for the added price. Probably a great idea.
  • brstilson, on 07/07/2008, -7/+3I doubt solar power can provide enough energy to run a compressor, condensor, and evaporator. It will most likely assist the engine somehow.
  • krekc, on 07/07/2008, -12/+6Still ugly. Why cant car makers design a car that has great gas mileage and looks good? It cant be that hard.
  • ajocksch, on 07/07/2008, -3/+9That's a brilliant idea. The only time you're going to use AC (usually) is when it's blazing hot out, which means there should be plenty of sunlight to power the panels. Perfect environmentally-friendly engineering solution if you ask me.
    • MrMischiefVIP, on 07/07/2008, -1/+7The AC kicks on when you run defrosters to help prevent the windows from fogging.
      • fantasticjon, on 07/07/2008, -6/+1I think the AC kicks on when you defrost because the AC needs to be turned on periodically and people would never turn it on in the winter time otherwise.

        Edit: Nevermind, I think you are correct.
    • Barackalypse, on 07/07/2008, -2/+6You obviously have no idea how big a solar panel is. They say the AC load is 3000-5000 watts, a 205 watt Kyocera ridig panel has a footprint of 16 square feet (59.1" x 39" x 1.4"), weighs 40 pounds, costs $905, and in full sunlight would supply less than 7% of the low end AC load. It would be smarter to add a bigger battery instead, that helps at night and on cloudy days.
      http://www.wholesalesolar.com/products.folder/modu ...
    • thehemi, on 07/07/2008, -0/+0Where do you live? A/C runs 24/7 down south!
  • retropunk, on 07/07/2008, -20/+4As if the Prius wasn't gay and ugly enough. They've taken it to an all new level.
    • DesignNerd, on 07/07/2008, -1/+1HEY! They have pretty awesome cargo space.

      I'll take that over the ***** spoiler-ridden ricers that plague the road.
  • amightywind, on 07/07/2008, -18/+3These feel good 'solutions' are great for you wine sippers southern California, and utterly worthless in much of the country. Until they can built a Ford 350 hybrid that works at -30, we need more oil!
    • vanguardanon, on 07/07/2008, -0/+2I trailer my buggy across the mountains about twice a month and have needs similar to yours. However, I'm also day dreaming about a daily driver that doesn't suck down F350 style fuel consumption.
  • duke, on 07/07/2008, -0/+10Somehow I bet that rear window louvers and a reflective/better insulated roof would help just as much. Of course, there's no reason you couldn't have both.
    • JBrown99, on 07/07/2008, -0/+0Too bad rear window louvers are usually hideous.

      But then again, it is a Prius, so...
  • greener, on 07/07/2008, -3/+12Now if I can just find a huge magnifying glass to park under.
    • Barackalypse, on 07/07/2008, -0/+8That will void your solar panel warranty, many of them explicitly forbid the use of concentrators as it becomes very easy to increase operating temperatures or voltages beyond specifications.
      • breckinshire, on 07/07/2008, -0/+6In other words, don't park under that huge magnifying glass.
      • MnMs, on 07/07/2008, -0/+1*****, now my patent on magnifying glass parking structures is worthless.
  • sassybeau, on 07/07/2008, -4/+4Whether it works or not these guys are thinking outside the box. They have ideas that they can build on and improve and all the American auto industry can think of is “should we bling out the rims more”. American auto will be licking these guys asses tomorrow, just to get a hint of what they had for lunch today.
    • ricksite, on 07/07/2008, -2/+2Solar panels on the roof are "bling".
    • nytejade, on 07/07/2008, -0/+1Using technology that's over 50 years old is hardly "thinking outside the box."
    • sassybeau, on 07/07/2008, -0/+0But running auto ac with them is. Solar power is actually about 100-year-old tech but product development is of no use until there is a need or desire. The advancements in solar are coming quickly down the pipe.
  • MrMischiefVIP, on 07/07/2008, -9/+4I was in Moab UT over July 4th in my gas guzzling Dodge Ram. Running through Arches National Park the outside temperatures were at 103* F. I had my windows open and no AC because I didn't feel the need for it (I find going from hot to cold to hot to cold a bigger problem then just staying hot). I saw no less then 3 Prius running around with their windows up and AC going full blast, and the cars running to keep the AC going. Granted they are still getting better gas mileage then I was, but what's the point? Even here in Denver when it's above 80* I've yet to see a prius driving with it's window down.
    • Barackalypse, on 07/07/2008, -2/+8The word hypocrite comes to mind when reading your post, a guy in a pickup truck worrying about the slight decrease in fuel economy on a car that gets at least twice the fuel economy as his vehicle regardless of the state of its AC. Also, you do realize that at freeway speeds you actually get better mileage with your windows rolled up and the air conditioning on, right? Your lose a lot of aerodynamic efficiency by having your windows open. Plus, even if you didn't, I find air conditioning is a lot more comfortable than hot air blowing into me at 35 or 65 mph, and the fuel efficiency difference between AC and no AC is minor.
      • MrMischiefVIP, on 07/07/2008, -2/+1I suggest you read posts rather then skimming for keywords.I was in Arches National Park when this was observed. Speeds not exceeding 30 mph. And yes, I understand my truck does not get the gas mileage a Prius does, but until the Prius can fit my needs I'll stick to a 4x4 truck and just drive it as economically as possible. I'm just saying, if a Prius owner is really concerned about the fuel prices (the environmental benefits of a hybrid vs a traditional combustion engine is debatable) wouldn't they have their windows down when traveling at low speeds rather then run the AC? If not, then a solar assisted AC unit is a good thing to hopefully be able to shut down the ICE from time to time.
      • larryg2k3, on 07/07/2008, -0/+3Sure A/C in cars uses gas, as A/C in houses (likely) uses dirty power. However, A/C consumption is not going to be the cause of the end of the world and people pay for the right to be comfortable. I sure as hell don't feel like having to toast myself in my car once its over 80-90 degrees outside and am willing to pay for that privilege. As gas gets more and more expensive, though, you will start to see more conservation techniques such as this.
      • rossisdead, on 07/07/2008, -1/+5You guys all need to watch MythBusters, as they proved the difference in fuel economy between windows down/AC on is statistically insignificant.
  • xShifty, on 07/07/2008, -9/+4Why is everyone running out and buying a Prius now? It'd be better if they saved their money for a more efficient car in the near future. But I suppose they're building the used car market for people who won't be able to afford better cars.
    • MrMischiefVIP, on 07/07/2008, -0/+4What is better for the environment? getting rid of your old SUV and replacing it with a new hybrid OR keeping your old SUV and try to drive it as economically as possible? Don't forget to factor in the environmental costs to produce the new hybrid and do something with the batteries in the future. I haven't yet seen a study on which is better for the environment, but I'd be interested in the results.
    • mike17032, on 07/07/2008, -1/+4Because people are morons.
    • ricksite, on 07/07/2008, -1/+7Environmentally and financially speaking, it is best to run the wheels off the car you currently own.
    • dhughes, on 07/07/2008, -0/+1 There is an excellent show on CBC radio here in Canada that has a regular guest, Doug Bethune, who was an professor of automotive technology and currently is a automotive forensics investigator. He has some great common sense, no fluff answers to car questions.

      First off people tend to confuse pollutants and CO2, they're not, or shouldn't be, in the same category.

      His recommendation was a Prius is good if you drive primarily in the city, it's too underpowered for highway driving and gives poor economy. A small car, diesel powered with a manual transmission is best, both for economy and in the long term. A VW diesel will outlast a Prius, I doubt you'll ever see a Prius with 500,000 miles on it.

      Letting a car idle may not be as bad as you think if it's only for a short time, once a car is started it tends to take the computer two or three minutes (even longer on a cold day) to stabilize and not be too rich or lean. Although he said warming up a modern fuel-injected car isn't necessary, you should be able to go a minute or two after starting the vehicle.

      I can't do his response justice it's just my version of what he said it's not verbatim.

      http://www.cbc.ca/maritimenoon/phonein_regulars.ht ...
  • success4uteam, on 07/07/2008, -10/+2This is great technology, but I think more hybrid cars should rework their designs. I like hybrid cars because they're eco-friendly and great on fuel economy, but the cars are just ugly!

    Chris -
    http://success4uteam.com
    • Barackalypse, on 07/07/2008, -0/+3This isn't great technology, this is an example of using the wrong tool for the job. Solar is very expensive and the non-rigid panels are even more expensive. How are you going to put these on a vehicle, without either killing its aerodynamic efficiency, or integrating it into/onto the vehicle surfaces and increasing production costs and complexity? if you want to make a real difference, you get more bang for your buck with a bigger battery and don't end up with much more expensive to create and replace specialty parts.
  • Barackalypse, on 07/07/2008, -7/+2This is a stupid idea, Kyocera makes a 205 watt panel, but it weighs 40 pounds and has dimensions of 59.1" x 39" x 1.4" and costs $910. Assuming the AC load is on the low end of their estimate, one panel provides less than 7% of the cooling need in full sunlight. Of course I doubt they can even use the cheaper rigid panels on a vehicle like this, so they'll probably end up costing even more to get something to integrate with the vehicles surfaces so as not to utterly kill the aerodynamic efficiency. This is another example of "feel good green", they'd be much better off spending the money on a bigger battery.
    http://www.wholesalesolar.com/products.folder/modu ...
  • mike17032, on 07/07/2008, -8/+2Ya, but its still a Prius.
  • larryg2k3, on 07/07/2008, -2/+5Solar technology is good, but lets stick to having solar/wind/etc make power upstream, or before it reaches our homes, rather than these stupid short-sighted ideas which will contribute very little. Alternatives need to be implemented on a large scale to reduce the use of and eliminate dirty power plants/fuel sources, rather than putting a band-aid on the issue. As an example, using one of these new battery-powered cars, that is plugged into the grid and charged from power produced by a coal-power plant is not the future...

    Just something to think about.
    • marx2k, on 07/07/2008, -0/+2Not all power plants are coal-powered....

      Just something to think about.
    • tyboulder, on 07/07/2008, -0/+2The efficiency of generating power (even at a coal plant) is orders of magnitude greater than the amount of pollution you'd generate by pouring gas into your little tank and running your combustion engine. Being able to plug your car into a grid, no matter the source of power, IS a new alternative.
      • digichris, on 07/08/2008, -1/+1Did I misread your comment or did you just contradict yourself?
  • repins, on 07/07/2008, -2/+5Solar cells are a great idea, but before you declare how green they are look into what kind of toxic soup it takes to make them.

    http://www.livescience.com/environment/080227-sola ...
    • vitriolix, on 07/07/2008, -0/+1of course that article says the opposite of what you are saying. they do indeed have emissions in manufacturing, but if you factor in the amount of coal burning they displace, it is an order of magnitude lower impact.
    • repins, on 07/08/2008, -0/+1vitriolix, sorry but you really have to read exactly what the article says:

      "Making solar or photovoltaic cells requires potentially toxic heavy metals such as lead, mercury and cadmium. It even produces greenhouse gases, such as carbon dioxide, that contribute to global warming. Still, the researchers found that if people switched from conventional fossil fuel-burning power plants to solar cells, air pollution would be cut by roughly 90 percent."

      Note that AIR polution would be cut by 90%, not total pollution, a very small cadmium, lead and mercury can pollute large amounts of ground water, and make an area unliveable.
  • RagnabroK, on 07/07/2008, -0/+4The 1993 mazda 939 (millenia S) had a factory option for a solar powred ventilation system. Some solar panels embedded in the sunroof would power the vent fans and cool the car off while parked in the hot sun. And on cooler days, it would trickle charge the battery. Not bad for 15 years ago.

    It mentions that in the article, but not to the full degree of it's awesomeness.
  • GhandicapXRS, on 07/07/2008, -9/+3Meh... nothing but a symbolic gesture. The only effect it will have is to increase the smugness of Prius owners. An' thems are smug bastards.
  • tbdsniper, on 07/07/2008, -6/+1Jeremy Clarkson would never approve to this! He hates the Prius!
  • KiltedMile, on 07/07/2008, -7/+1We're all going to die thanks to global warming anyways... who cares?
    • CedEx, on 07/07/2008, -0/+0I do! I want to be the last person alive just so that I can sit back and say "It's ALL MINE!!!!"
  • SilverBlade2k, on 07/07/2008, -1/+8I wish Toyota would work on a plug-in version first, then add solar panels.
    • EtherGnat, on 07/07/2008, -0/+2...because a company the size of Toyota can't work on more than one thing at a time. Incidentally a PHEV version of the Prius is due by 2010.
  • thesoze, on 07/07/2008, -7/+2the most uncomfortable car to drive - ughhh!
  • yoda17, on 07/07/2008, -5/+4You'd conserve more energy by parking in the shade in places than could every be developed by carry along solar panels. And I wonder how much of the increased weight negates any advantages to "will provide some of the two to five kilowatts".

    An almost infinetely better solution is to have stationary solar panel that plugged into the grid.

    DISCLAIMER: I studied thermodyamics and electrical engineering in college.
    • unitedatheism, on 07/08/2008, -0/+1Yeah, the almost 15 pounds of extra weight will definitely kill it's advantage... Perhaps the air drag or 0.0001 more also, right?
      You've studied, and looks like you failed.
      The car takes lots of heavy batteries, but it's that solar panel weight (which is less than the difference between driver's weight) that will turn it into a slug!

      DISCLAIMER: I'm an electrical engineer. Have a nice day.
  • JoeVet, on 07/07/2008, -5/+4I'll be impressed when they come out with a nuclear powered one. Solar and wind will never amount to much. Nuclear will remain the best alternative to oil if cleanliness and safety are the main concerns.
    • JBrown99, on 07/07/2008, -0/+2Agreed, nuclear is the way to go. People are too scared of past occurences though, and immediately think of doomsday scenarios when they hear 'nuclear'.
  • NCSD, on 07/07/2008, -8/+2i wish they would build a car like this that actually looked good. They look so bad, your basically trading in your dignity for mpg.
    • marx2k, on 07/07/2008, -0/+1That's ok... It's not as though the people you're trying to impress are paying for your gas.
  • breakdancecrew, on 07/07/2008, -4/+23For the record: I have a 2005 Prius, and I think Al Gore's global warming is a bunch of crap that government uses to gain more control over the unsuspecting populace. (Son of a meteorologist) Still, here's something I calculated a little while back for those looking at fuel savings of the current models of the Prius:

    In typical driving, the Prius gets about 50MPG, and the standard sedan gets about 25MPG.

    This means a Prius uses about 2,000gal of gas for every 100,000mi driven, and a sedan uses about 4,000gal for every 100,000miles driven. Thus, over a sedan, the Prius saves about 2,000gal of gas per 100,000mi. Depending on where you live, the savings could be between $8,000 and $10,000 per 100,000miles at current gas prices. Most people nowadays keep their cars well over 100,000mi and sometimes as long as 200,000mi. If one keeps a Prius for the latter, that's where the gas savings really start to shine. The lower-end models of the Prius start at around $22,000, so if gas prices held steady (but realistically will keep going up), the net price of the car would be $2,000-$6,000. Add in the tax breaks that our good friends in the government give, and it looks even better. When you compare a Prius and a sedan that both have high-efficiency air filters and properly-inflated tires, that 25MPG difference in fuel efficiency broadens even more. I'm currently getting about 53MPG with a $50 permanent air filter that pays itself back quickly over replacing a $15 one every six months.

    Aside from all the monetary savings, there's no denying that the US needs to stop tossing money at the terrorists' coffers for oil and that air pollution is a very real problem. So this all comes down to a win-win-win situation!
    • taketheleap, on 07/07/2008, -6/+2agree with the calculation and it's cool, but whats with the negative first part!?
    • Hercules, on 07/07/2008, -0/+4Only inherent problem with that logic is that you assume that the repair costs and battery replacement is going to be the same price as a traditional car.

      Don't get me wrong -- I love the Prius, and if it wasn't 25k, I'd buy one too. But I think the most logical step for me at this point, needing a car good on gas for commuting to work, is to buy a 4 year old Civic that gives me ~35mpg on the highway, for maybe $10,000, and still wind up ahead when I get to the 100k mark as far as my gas dollars go.

      Although, I'm entertaining greatly the plug in hybrids of 2010, the Volt and others... if they can put out what they advertise, I will probably buy one.
  • KMyHero, on 07/07/2008, -8/+18Yeah, but it's still ugly.
    • Jennica, on 07/07/2008, -1/+3Do you really care if it gets 50+ to the gallon?
      • JBrown99, on 07/07/2008, -0/+3Believe it or not, to some people a car is more than simply a way to get from 'A' to 'B'.

        But it seems like those people are becoming fewer and fewer, which is pretty sad.
      • cnot3, on 07/07/2008, -0/+6A diesel civic at least looks like a normal car, and they can get 70 mpg. *****, even a diesel BMW 5-series can get pretty close to 50 mpg. You don't have to sacrifice body style for fuel economy.
      • KaiStrikes415, on 07/08/2008, -0/+1Diesel is no good in California , and that is one reason the prius sells so well due to no small Disel competition.
    • thehemi, on 07/07/2008, -0/+0The Honda Civic Hybrid gets like 45 mpg and looks good at the same time.
  • johnstays44, on 07/07/2008, -2/+1thank god they're pulling back. they should pull more stores if you ask me
  • Gemfinder, on 07/07/2008, -2/+2That's nice. Are they going to quit working their workers to death?
  • LilRabbitFooFoo, on 08/11/2008, -1/+9Ahem. It's about CHARGING the battery when it is just sitting there, not providing significant running power.

    Leaving it charging all day would save you MONEY by not paying for the battery charging through your local utility...and it would be free...forever.
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