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Visual Studio 2010 to come with airline like 'black box'

news.cnet.com — In the next version of its developer tool suite, to be known as Visual Studio 2010, Microsoft plans to include the ability to record the full screens of what testers are seeing, as well as data about their machine. When a test application crashes, the technology will enable developers to see the bug as it occurred, a sort of "TiVo for debuggers."

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  • divinediva, on 09/29/2008, -10/+22Sounds more like oversight of privatized space ventures..
  • incentives, on 09/29/2008, -22/+3It took them this long to add 'Tivo'? Wonder what else it has.....if I could only hit the fast forward button....
  • jonespr, on 09/29/2008, -16/+7I dont have Tivo, but I guess I understand the meaning, as a developer I look forward to this feature... hate the only possiblity is to go back a couple of steps when I did something wrong.
    • CosmicJustice, on 09/30/2008, -1/+12Did you even read the article?
  • DigSomeMore, on 09/29/2008, -2/+38This should help with support
    • JasonHofmann, on 09/30/2008, -0/+3This MS feature is designed for use only in QA, but BMC APR (formerly Identify AppSight) does everything that this proposed addition does and more. It can be used in production (support) and it records much more than just what the user saw and their PC's configuration, in fact it goes down to the code:

      "BMC Black Box: Like a “black box” flight recorder for your software"
      http://www.identify.com/products/bbx.php

      In the interest of full disclosure, I have worked for this company and with this product since 2005.
      • Blandyman, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1There's another program for developers that I see advertised a lot in Game Developer magazine.

        I don't do much programming so I never used it, but my friend Matt swears by it. It's a bug-tracker that actually catches all calls and requests and all code being processed in real-time and saves it to a log, so you can find at exactly what line of code your program crashed.
  • MarkusGarvey, on 09/30/2008, -2/+35great!...i hate typing detailed info on bugs...especially when i want to go to bed...
  • madwaxer, on 09/30/2008, -26/+7hope it can be uninstalled or disabled!
    • dbxz, on 09/30/2008, -1/+30this feature is for internal development and testing purposes... it is unlikely that you will ever see final software releases with it enabled
      • AmaDaden, on 09/30/2008, -15/+5You have a lot more faith in windows developers then I do.
      • Blandyman, on 09/30/2008, -1/+4AmaDaden:

        It will most likely only run in software compiled in debug mode.

        On top of that, no one cares about your faith in Windows developers... a lot of them are smart people and don't make mistakes. It's when you have so many people working on things that it gets complicated and one mistake gets through.

        Then again, I'm sure you're either a Mac user or a Linux user. And you're much better than Windows users.
      • AmaDaden, on 09/30/2008, -2/+2I use them all, but I do greatly favor Linux. My complaint is far more then "lolz windows $ucks" like you seem to think. I do web dev work in java that talks to .NET code written by other companies. Not to long ago I had to do a massive rewrite of my code because "people in the .NET world don't need to return valid XML". I've found this kind of using 'Microsoft rules' idea common and frustrating.

        "a lot of them are smart people"
        Yes they are, But I'm not worried about them. Not all the companies we work with that use .NET cause problems like this. But those who do cause issues are almost all .NET.

        On the subject of VS in general I have used it before. When you program with VS you only get to learn VS. All your knowledge of how computers work get thrown out the window because you need to find 1) what that translates to in Microsoft land and 2) where the switch is for it. From what I remember it's not easy to turn stuff like this on and off and even harder to figure out what it is set to after you compiled.

        "It will most likely only run in software compiled in debug mode."
        No it's not. FTA "Microsoft plans to include the ability to record the full screens of what testers are seeing, as well as data about their machine." It's for Testing mode. This means it must be able to run on a non-dev computer.

        So I find it VERY likely that people with leave this flag on when it their software ships or worse yet make it very easy to turn on thus causing a security hole.
      • metalstorm, on 10/01/2008, -0/+1Amadaden: Where do I begin...

        What does the .Net XML format have to do with people that develop in a Windows environment that you are referring to in your original comment?

        "When you program with VS you only get to learn VS. All your knowledge of how computers work get thrown out the window"

        Ummm what? I am pretty sure that my knowledge of computers applies to my C++ code that I write in VS the same as it does when I am writing C++ code in VIM in Linux. The compilers I use may have some quirks but VS has a surprisingly good C++ compiler.

        "It's for Testing mode. This means it must be able to run on a non-dev computer."

        You do know you can give testers a debug build right? I would be willing to bet that it is automatically off in a release build unless you enabled it specifically in the solution.

        Just because the .Net library has some issues (and I agree it does, but then again so does Boost) doesn't mean that all windows development, developers and VS suck .
    • crownedgriffin, on 09/30/2008, -1/+6Did you actually RTFA?
  • powatom, on 09/30/2008, -9/+9Good idea I guess, but nothing really mind-blowing.
    • jakem1, on 09/30/2008, -1/+4Maybe not mind-blowing but it's often the simplest ideas that make the biggest difference. It can be really frustrating and time-consuming trying to track down a bug that can't be reproduced and anything that helps out with that is welcome.
      • powatom, on 09/30/2008, -1/+1Except it's not a new idea, it's just Visual Studio is playing catch up. Yes, MSs version will probably be more polished than other solution, but even still - this has been done.
    • DreKor, on 09/30/2008, -1/+1Wasn't this the purpose of the BSOD's stack dump? We're just upgrading the blue screen for a new generation.
  • aDJsavedmylife, on 09/30/2008, -16/+3This isn't ground breaking at all..

    reminds me of

    http://silverbackapp.com/

  • kotrin, on 09/30/2008, -28/+4just if visual studio was worth using...
    • willdiggforfood, on 09/30/2008, -7/+22It is actually very good. The only good piece of Microsoft software there is (the rest is garbage) IMO.
      • OMGWTFROFLMAOx2, on 09/30/2008, -1/+7sql server
      • HippyInASuit, on 09/30/2008, -2/+105 still has some pesky bugs. "Path is not of a valid form" my ass! Try again and of course it loads with no problem :-/. Haven't used 08 much yet, we're porting over soon.
      • bpoteat, on 09/30/2008, -6/+1sql server, what? It is a crap database that was poorly designed from the start and has had so much feature creep that it just about takes someone whose entire job is to install and maintain it. There are many databases on the market that are better (and their relative market shares show it). To compare SqlServer to VS as far as the relative dominance in their roles is a joke.
      • jakem1, on 09/30/2008, -1/+2@bpoteat: Ummm, that's what dba's are for. Anyway, SQL Server is simple to get a setup in a basic config that can be developed against.

        If you think SQL Server is a PITA try installing Oracle - it's like the DBMS that time forgot.
      • bpoteat, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1Really? People seriously think that SqlServer is as good a database as VS is an IDE? If you guys say so. Personally, I always feel like I'm fighting it to do simple things and I haven't had that problem with other databases I've used - even MySql (and I don't usually go for open source software).
    • melonhedd, on 09/30/2008, -3/+30What? VS is leaps and bounds above every other IDE available, including free ones.
    • santasing, on 09/30/2008, -12/+2@will

      VS is ok, nothing special. There are way better IDE's out there.
      • Kamujin, on 09/30/2008, -2/+14Really? Lets hear your list. (If it includes Eclipse and/or X-Code just save some face and don't respond.)
      • sadilak, on 09/30/2008, -1/+11ouch. That is a lie. Visual Studio is by far the best IDE out there. I mean since VS 4.0 or 5.0, no other IDE has even come close to it in terms of developer friendliness. in terms of RAD, by the time you complete 1 php page in Eclipse or Netbeans or XCode, you could have completed 10 pages with AJAX and CSS and everything built into it.
      • Blandyman, on 09/30/2008, -1/+2Eclipse is better than Visual Studio.

        /sarcasm
    • bpoteat, on 09/30/2008, -2/+12As much as you may dislike Microsoft and many of their sub-par applications, VS is not one of them. It is the best IDE available. If you have used it and other IDEs, the capabilities it provides and its general workflow is dominant - there is no close 2nd.
    • kaniz, on 09/30/2008, -2/+6Uh, what? I love working in Visual Studio. While other Microsoft products are lacking, I spend a better chunk of my work-day in Visual Studio and really enjoy it. I've tried other IDE's before and they generally leave me wishing "I wish I could...."

      On the other hand, I also work extensively with Microsoft technologies - .NET/etc, and as an environment for that, its great.
    • santasing, on 09/30/2008, -7/+2I would say Eclipse is far, far better than what VS can do now. Not having to build the app everytime you have to deploy, debugging and all that. I think its more like, "Gee, my Phoenix Online course makes me use VS and I can build a blog in 10 minutes using step-by-step tutorials."

      Or try Netbeans. Or here: http://www.netbeans.org/kb/docs/screencasts.html

      Next time, try to make a coherent argument and not just, "Don't mention the better alternative coz my college makes me use this other thing"

      We could have a shootout now if you want. Lemme know what VS studio feature you are talking about and I can show you it has been out there for years before this.

      Stop watching those VS Express demos and step into the real world.
      • Kamujin, on 09/30/2008, -1/+8Lets analyze your arguement

        Point 1) No having to build before you deploy/debug.
        Wrong! Visual Studio has long standing support for edit and continue. I'd love to see you deploy your new c/c++ server without compiling the code. Now if we're talking about web pages, then you might as well just shut up now. The adults are talking about real programming tasks, not basic web forums.

        Point 2) People who use VS are only using it because their college makes them.
        Wrong! In the real world where people actually get paid to write code. VS is the dominant IDE.

        Point 3) Watch a Netbeans screencast, but DON'T watch a VS demo.
        Wrong! Do I need to explain this any more?
      • bpoteat, on 09/30/2008, -2/+3Actually I use both VS and Eclipse...at the same time (one of the projects I work on has different apps developed on each that have to communicate). VS is light-years better in nearly every way possible. It isn't simply about features that one has and the other doesn't, it's how the whole thing is brought together in a unified package. Simple tasks are simple and complex features can be easily accessed when you get to that point. Eclipse feels hacked together with no unified GUI structure.

        It's a very ironic thing to suggest, but VS is like the Mac OS of the IDE world...it just works without a lot of tweaking. You have to tweak the hell out of Eclipse to get it to work how you want, and even then the general workflow just isn't as fluid as VS. There are so many cumbersome small things that I have to do everyday in Eclipse that make me question the developers' thought processes.
      • Blandyman, on 09/30/2008, -3/+2Kamujin, I just don't think you get it.

        Visual Studio is garbage. Don't watch the videos, M$ is just trying to brainwash your with their horrible IDE. The thing is, Netbeans has been, is, and will always be a better IDE because it's not mainstream, which makes me like it more.

        You see, I'm an elitist, but also, a rebel. I don't like Visual Studio (or any other stuff I have to pay for, lolz) because why should I? I hate productivity, I hate ease-of-use, and I hate making an educated decision. I like to sit in my Netbeans bubble, with my Eclipse shell over it, and never even try to find out WHY people like Visual Studio.

        And, yeah, you use them in school. Because you're a loser. I mean, anything a school uses is worthless. They're teaching you to use Visual Studio, the worst IDE ever, so when you get out to the real world you can spend more time learning a MAN'S development tool, Netbeans.

        The whole world uses Visual Studio because it's feature-rich, user-friendly, and has amazing support and help documents. But real programmers don't use that kind of *****, because we like to wrack our minds over pointless bugs that aren't our fault.

        When you stop playing with your kiddie M$ *****, I'll show you what it means to be a real programmer. Just let me know when you're ready to play with the big boys.
      • Kamujin, on 09/30/2008, -2/+3@Blandyman Sorry, thanks for clearing that up for me. Clearly I am still married to my outdated desire for efficiency.
      • santasing, on 09/30/2008, -3/+3That's the point. You really don't need to do anything to build your code. You just save the current file and go. The builds are taken care of automatically.
        - VS is not the dominant IDE in my personal experience. I have been working as a contractor for 6 years now and I have worked for companies like Travelocity, an insurance company, a major bank and a major web services company. People use VS only for .Net development. When it comes to client facing code that is deployed on the prod servers, I haven't seen one instance of VS, or .Net for that matter being used.
        - I posted the NetBeans demos for the lazy. I have seen so many fresh out of college people so smitten with VS to come on prod environments and fall flat when it comes to tasks like refactoring, maintaining code etc. Its one thing to "write your own blogging app in 10 minutes", its entirely another to talk to different vendors using web services, being a provider etc. I am not talking about some esoteric case studies. These are skills that are needed every day on the job.

        - As far as tweaking eclipse goes. That's again false. Eclipse generates code based on standards. I just deployed a small test app in eclipse with DB connectivity and deployed it to morph.us

        - Liking Netbeans does not make me an elitist. I have seen why it is better and use it everyday. In college, .Net was my preference but back then, eclipse wasn't to the point where it is now and Netbeans just sucked the life out of even a 2GB ram machine.

        I don't know where you guys work with statements like "the whole world uses VS". In my division (insurance company with a IT staff of about 2500 people), we have maybe 10 licenses of VS used for intranet content websites connecting to sharepoint.

        So spare me your fanboy *****. I don't buy into the VS is better thing at all coz I have used it. Its good for "look ma, i made a blog in 10 minutes" but when it comes to refactoring, scalabilty (I know boring stuff for the Web 2.0 I waan build my own digg crowd), VS is just not up to snuff.
      • Kamujin, on 09/30/2008, -2/+1quote... "VS is just not up to snuff"... WTF?

        santasing, you can say the Mona Lisa is ugly too, but that says more about you then it does about the painting.

      • sadilak, on 09/30/2008, -3/+1you are on crack cocaine I guess. Eclipse is not greater than visual studio. Eclipse is a crappy UI. People use it because in the open source world, you dont have many options. So you have to live with what you got. I would prefer to use a text editor instead of eclipse.

        As for producing standardized code, it depends on the coder. MS has no saying on that. You can use FxCop to find out how standardized your code is though. If you want to go one step further, you can use CAST. but FxCop will suffice I guess.
      • santasing, on 09/30/2008, -1/+2People don't have many options in the OS world! You are kidding right. As opposed to what in the propreitery world. Eclipse being open sourced has nothing to do with the fact that it is better than VS.

        You don't like Eclipse UI, use Netbeans (of course for non .Net stuff)

        Standardizing code. I am talking about auto-generated code. Like xml config files and all that. You don't know about this because VS hides this stuff from you.

        I'll give you an example. We are developing an app right now. Due to certain things like different clients, laws ni diff states etc., we are currently running 54 diff slightly tweaked versions of the same app on various servers. This possible you can even tweak the build parameters at build time. This is power.
        Can you imagine doing this in VS keeping in mind the code base for the 54 versions is slightly different but development can happen on any version at any time. And, all these code branches will be merged back into one code base when all is said and done.

        That's why I said before. If you want to build a blog app in 10 minutes, use VS. If you want a real IDE, look somewhere else. Its easy to feel the way you do if you are a 100% .Net shop but if you are using different languages and tools, VS does not cut it.
      • sadilak, on 10/01/2008, -2/+1Of course, you can do whatever you said in Visual studio. We do the similar deployments using Visual Studio. You can absolutely tweak build parameters at build time(MSBuild) , you can even do an MSI of the package automatically after building, run code rules validation etc etc.

        As for saying building a real App in VS. there are tonnes of visual studio apps out there which kick ass.
        If you intentionally code it poorly, then it will be poor.

        As a matter of fact, I think Google's social networking website is built on ASPX. And for RAD , Visual Studio is much faster than Eclipse or Netbeans. Netbeans is faster than Eclipse too. If you want, you can run around saying eclipse is the best. I am not going to stip you....
      • mrBitch, on 10/02/2008, -0/+1@sadilak RE: " ... I think Google's social networking website is built on ASPX. "

        Nope, it's built on good old PHP and MySQL, instructions for setting up a WAMP "Google OpenSocial" development PC here :
        http://www.chabotc.com/generic/setting-up-shindig- ...

        more info here :
        http://opensocialapis.blogspot.com/
    • MrTea, on 09/30/2008, -2/+2IMO, it's one of the only Microsoft products worth buying.
  • santasing, on 09/30/2008, -10/+4This functionality has been around for years. I have been using QALoad with Eclipse for quite a while now myself.
  • atgmac, on 09/30/2008, -11/+6This is entirely unspectacular. Many applications have this kind of thing. It really helps will debugging, but it's nothing new.
    • DiscoUnderpants, on 09/30/2008, -7/+2I in fact wrote my own back around 94-95 for applications deployed to remote users... having skimmed the article I think mine had even more features than this... could take system snapshots... allowed a mode of operation so you could connect to the app and access it thru the debugging api etc etc
      • Blandyman, on 09/30/2008, -1/+1So, is your business doing well? Because I find it hard to believe you would make such a feature-rich application and not start a business around it, or at least attempt to market it to Sun or MS.

        I'm not saying you're a liar, but it's hard to believe...
      • DiscoUnderpants, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1@Blandyman

        Its really not that original or that difficult thing to do you know. It wasnt our core business... the business is still around and I no longer work for them. Whats so feeaure rich about it anyway? Accessing the win32 api debugging api isnt hard... snapshot of the machine state is easy etc etc etc. The product it was written for was a (very expensive) piece of SCADA software that ran on win32/QNX. We had site all over the place that often were not on any network due to the nature of the product... had to be manually dialed into in secure circumstances.

        I suspect you are not a developer. Or not a very experienced developer. Or work in a bank or something as a developer. Which are all about the same thing.
  • kenrblan, on 09/30/2008, -8/+1This makes sense to me... Windows crashes, airplanes crash, though much less frequently. I hope Microsoft uses this to debug the next release of Windows instead of releasing a Gold Alpha.
    • Blandyman, on 09/30/2008, -1/+1What crashes for you? Because I've been running Vista since February and I've had my PC running for 3 weeks straight now, and I've had no performance issues or crashes.

      Maybe you should change your thoughts to reflect what Microsoft is releasing today, not their Windows 98 Plus release.
      • Han5010, on 10/03/2008, -0/+1Gee, 3 whole weeks huh? Seriously, though, Windows has vastly improved in terms of stability in these latest NT-based releases. It's not hard to BSOD one on purpose, but it is nice not to have to hard-reset all the time as one got used to doing in the 90s. Now if they could just figure out how to release unused handles and destroy left-over objects... then we would hardly even need to reboot due to slow-down.
  • carboncopy77, on 09/30/2008, -1/+6I used to use a keyboard logger & screen capture software that would maintain almost 5 days worth of data for this same type of thing. We had many reports of the users selection not being recorded for overtime signup, and job postings. It turned out that 98 / 100 times there was a 'it just didn't work', it was the user forgot before the allowable time was up, and thought they could beat the system (it was a CAW shop if it matters any).. Unfortunately when SOX came into play, they killed this setup, and we ended up creating a huge audit log of everything that happened.. Anyway, this will be nice to have built in finally.
  • Mr.Gone, on 09/30/2008, -11/+2It's recording what we are doing! Net neutrality! Too much regulation! AHHHHHHHH!!!!111!!!
    • ripple123, on 09/30/2008, -1/+5i know you think that if you put some words that seem funny together and add lots of exclamation marks, you may think you have a joke. well. im sorry. you dont. you just have failure. just unending, tragic, failure. you, sir, are fit only for the job of taking all the straight dog poos, and twisting them into their little coils.
      • GiggleStick, on 09/30/2008, -2/+2I'm sorry your shift key is broken. Don't worry, you'll get it fixed one day.
      • Blandyman, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1GIGGLESTICK:

        I'M SORRY MINE IS BROKEN TOO AND CAPS LOCK IS STUCK :( THANKS FOR THE CONCERN.
  • zmedico, on 09/30/2008, -3/+6It's an enhanced core dump.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_dump
  • OMGWTFROFLMAOx2, on 09/30/2008, -5/+9Damnit Microsoft SLOW DOWN. Let us migrate to 2k8 before you guys start pushing out 2k10
    • etx313, on 09/30/2008, -5/+3KICK MOTHER NATURE WITH YOUR ENERGY LEGS
    • sadilak, on 09/30/2008, -0/+5Yeah, I am doing the first Visual Studio 2008 app for my corp out here. But you will be surprised as to how fast corporations are accepting the change. I work for one of the world's top 5 banks and they are already in Sharepoint 2007, office 2007 and SQL Server 2005(2008 in testing). Not to forget that they also have the latest exchange server. The funniest part about my previous project was that we moved away from open source to IIS and MS technologies.
    • Yazilliclick, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1It's not going to be released for a couple years and you don't need to upgrade so who cares? Good for them to show they're going to keep adding great features. Not like there's a huge learning curve from one vs to the next.
    • Jektal, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1I'm surprised they're pushing .net 4.0 with this, although I suppose .net is nicely backwards-compatible (from what I've seen), so it doesn't really matter.

      And not that any of this matters for me - we're still using VB6.

      I miss VS 2005.
      • jakem1, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1I feel for you.
      • avidlinuxuser, on 09/30/2008, -1/+2I know thy pain. Looking at VB6 code is all kinds of pain. No VB6 is really what you would call 'good'. However, I have seen VB6 code that is probably the worst code I've ever sees.
  • Hercules, on 09/30/2008, -6/+100Even more for the best IDE on the market.

    Yes folks I said it... Microsoft makes the best developer tools. Hands down.

    Now I'll be dugg down by the Apple/*nix fanatics.
    • TheNik, on 09/30/2008, -2/+9Well it's true, but Xcode is free. :P
      • webcrumb, on 09/30/2008, -2/+16You can get the Express editions for free. Not sure what they allow for under their licence, but hey, it's a good starting point.

        http://msdn.microsoft.com/express/
      • Blandyman, on 09/30/2008, -1/+2Everything. These days, Express can do everything legitimate versions can... I just think you're unable to download 3rd-party add-ons.
      • MrTea, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1do they express editions have winform and resource script editing?
      • patm1987, on 09/30/2008, -0/+2The Express editions are nice, but don't support native application programming without manually installing the "Platform SDK" (really not much of an issue) and don't support mixed-language solutions. If you're like me you like to write speed critical sections in C++ and write frontends and logic in C#, and this makes debugging a real pain. This is why I code mostly in Visual Studio Pro even if I would have more leniency with program distribution if I used the express editions.
    • stanleyford, on 09/30/2008, -14/+9I use Microsoft developer tools every day, and I disagree. I think Microsoft makes the tools which best integrate a wide variety of features into a single seamless user experience, but Microsoft tools are generally less robust, less flexible, and less elegantly designed than the corresponding *nix tools.

      Come to think of it, that's true for Microsoft software in general.
    • weiran, on 09/30/2008, -1/+22Indeed it is.

      Eclipse is a close second best but I much prefer the way VS does a few key things and the slick integration between VS and SQL Server.
    • etx313, on 09/30/2008, -3/+3I haven't used Visual Studio in a couple years. I just got back into Objective-C and I can't believe how nice XCode is. I'll probably start using it for scripting if possible.
      • Mufaka, on 09/30/2008, -0/+5XCode is decent at best, but it is nowhere near Eclipse or VS.

        The GUI / GDB integration is nice and so are the performance profiling tools. Code completion, Interface Builder not so much compared to VS and Eclipse.
      • eyesee360, on 09/30/2008, -0/+3I have to say that while XCode can stand to have some improvements as an IDE, the suite of development tools in the box from Apple are hard to beat.

        I can't imagine how much time I could have saved if I had Instruments, DTrace, malloc_debug, sampler, OpenGL Profiler, etc. available to me on Windows. I can't even find comparable tools to buy, let alone that are standard.
      • ricodued, on 09/30/2008, -1/+1XCode makes me want to destroy entire third-world nations.
    • jeffyjones, on 09/30/2008, -0/+11I dig it as well, in particular because the debugging is so good. I've mostly just tinkered with other IDE's and platforms, but I'm frustrated by less robust debugging. That, and Intellisense makes life infinitely easier.
    • Tyfud, on 09/30/2008, -1/+18Agreed. As a professional developer, VS is the best IDE out there.
    • andycr512, on 09/30/2008, -0/+4For .NET, yes. For straight C/C++ development, I find Eclipse to be far superior, even when using Windows. It has "IntelliSense" that actually works 100% of the time, better code completion, hippie completion (odd name; try typing part of a variable name and press Alt+/ to cycle through options), the best SVN integration I've -ever- seen (no VC++ plugin comes close, and TortoiseSVN is a joke compared to Subversive), open files with the keyboard only (I get so tired of mousing through the project view in VC++ when in Eclipse it's as simple as pressing Ctrl+Shift+R and typing part of the filename), etc. etc.

      On the plus side, Visual C++'s debugger is far better than the GDB integration Eclipse provides. That's why when I am on Windows, I edit in Eclipse, then Alt-Tab into VC++ to compile, run, and debug. It may seem redundant, but it works well, and I truly dislike Visual C++ for development, for all it's quirks and lacking features.
      • Hercules, on 09/30/2008, -0/+3You're not exactly comparing native to native on that, but I will agree with you that for straight C/C++ VS isn't probably the best IDE. But if you compare Eclipse's capability to C/C++ to VS's capability for .NET, there is a nod in favor of the MS IDE.

        Granted if you don't do .NET, it doesn't benefit you, but it also doesn't make it a bad IDE.
      • andycr512, on 09/30/2008, -0/+2"But if you compare Eclipse's capability to C/C++ to VS's capability for .NET, there is a nod in favor of the MS IDE."

        I suppose so, but that's really apples to oranges since .NET is an entire set of API's languages can use while C++ is just a language with a very simple standard API.

        "Granted if you don't do .NET, it doesn't benefit you, but it also doesn't make it a bad IDE."

        Not bad, but certainly odd and unstable in areas. I'm puzzled as to why IntelliSense kills itself on a daily basis, only to come back at unpredictable times before vanishing for another day. With Eclipse, I can type std::st(Ctrl+Space) and know that I will get string every time, no matter what, but with VC++ I can't rely on it - it depends on its mood at the time. I'm annoyed that there aren't enough keyboard shortcuts to use the IDE without touching the mouse. It seems that Visual Studio focuses so much on .NET languages and frameworks that it entirely fails at a simpler language with a simple API. I have no interest in .NET. I prefer to keep my programs cross-platform. Perhaps I'm not the target of VS, but I certainly know that many cross-platform developers used to prefer VC++ for daily development, lamenting that it had no match on Linux (which was more or less true until a couple years ago). It seems strange that it's gone so far downhill.
      • ZippyV, on 09/30/2008, -0/+2Microsoft know about the lack of love for Visual C++ and they are addressing this problem.
      • mrBitch, on 10/02/2008, -0/+1@andycr512 RE: " I find Eclipse to be far superior, even when using Windows. It has "IntelliSense" that actually works 100% of the time, better code completion.. "

        That may not be the fault of VS specifically. Next time intellisense craps out while you are in VS check your process CPU and memory utilisation (this may be a Windows shared DLL issue).
  • FUR10N, on 09/30/2008, -3/+2and XNA 2.0 still doesn't even support Visual Studio 2008, so I'm going to be stuck waiting forever until I get support for 2010
  • mentor972, on 09/30/2008, -14/+1They're watch the crashes happen. They'll go something like this. A developer clicks on something and gets a blue screen of death. Watching that happen will be very helpful /sarcasm
  • ledmonkey, on 09/30/2008, -14/+2Visual Studio is such a ***** programming environment. They taught me to program with it in high school, and all it does is promote bad programming habits, ones that I'm glad I've gotten rid of now.
    • simquad, on 09/30/2008, -0/+8Bad programming habits? nah, at the end of the day you (not you personally but in a plural-programmer-collective sense) are the one who codes what happens, the IDE just makes some of that coding easier for you
    • Mufaka, on 09/30/2008, -0/+6Care to elaborate? It sounds more like your high school taught you bad programming habits.
    • Yazilliclick, on 09/30/2008, -1/+6How exactly does the IDE promote bad programming habits? Can you list any at all? Nope? Didn't think so.
      • MWeather, on 09/30/2008, -7/+3Well it encourages .Net development. That's a really bad habit.
  • dokeshi, on 09/30/2008, -1/+9Is this only part of the Team System version, though, or will Professional have it as well?
  • minorgods, on 09/30/2008, -0/+11I was originally going to bitch about having something constantly recording a system (memory, privacy, blah blah) then I read the article...

    now all I have is... Damn.. that's pretty slick...
  • rameznabel, on 09/30/2008, -0/+10Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers
    i'm Sweating
  • andrewtheart, on 09/30/2008, -6/+1Their privacy policy is going to have to be completely modified... to be even more inclusive than it already is. Is that possible? lol.
  • enterneo, on 09/30/2008, -2/+5Microsoft Visual Studio is a class apart IDE - proving it in each iteration!
  • Lowrez, on 09/30/2008, -1/+0Exactly how are you doing that?
  • ckasprzak, on 09/30/2008, -6/+1Sounds like a great idead, but does it ever actually turn off?!?
  • JasonHofmann, on 09/30/2008, -1/+1Very useful to be able to see what testers where doing, especially since the defect documentation is often incomplete or innacurrate (and at a minimum it is time-consuming for the tester). However, BMC APR (formerly Identify AppSight) has been doing this for years and is already in use in QA departments all over the world, plus, it can be used in production too and it records much more than just what the user saw and their PC's configuration (it goes down to the code execution):

    "BMC Black Box: Like a “black box” flight recorder for your software"
    http://www.identify.com/products/bbx.php

    "Previously, whenever a tester found a bug, it required several interactions with a developer to clarify the issue, Now developers can simply play back the recording of the failed test case."
    http://www.insurancetech.com/news/showArticle.jhtm ...

    In the interest of full disclosure, I have worked for this company and with this product since 2005.
  • phosphite, on 09/30/2008, -1/+1Aww...I wanted a real physical black box...kinda like a Pandora's box...for code :)
  • Hefner, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1Wish we had this in 2003, 2005, 2008 versions.
  • robbob, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1Aircraft "black boxes" aren't black
  • stuffradio, on 09/30/2008, -0/+3Looks like I have to stay in school a few more years so I can get the Pro version for free too! :P
  • Kromel, on 09/30/2008, -2/+1Woo hoo! Finally, will get some support with my porn!
    • newbill123, on 10/03/2008, -0/+1There have been browser crashes that I've decided not to report because of the erotic nature of the site being browsed.

      "At 1:35 after the moaning stops, move your pointer over the genital area and the browser will crash."
  •  

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