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Blogger gets $200 check from HP for declining Vista's EULA

arstechnica.com — This is the story of how one blogger, uncle_benji, managed to convince HP representatives that he was entitled to a refund because he did not want to agree to Windows Vista's EULA. His reward? A $200 check.

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  • ginestony, on 07/22/2008, -6/+124If you want to get anything done in this country you've got to complain 'til you're blue in the mouth.
    • neutronlaser, on 07/23/2008, -3/+27Which country?
    • WELLDOITLIVE, on 07/23/2008, -5/+22I just blue myself
    • sochee, on 07/23/2008, -8/+2hahaha.....monty python.
    • MSP1, on 07/23/2008, -16/+3When people write "this country" and assume everyone in the world will guess where they mean I always assume Afghanistan or some other backward part of the world.
    • cdahlkvist, on 07/23/2008, -15/+3This is a tactic I use regularly. It's not how much you complain but who you complain to.

      I often find CEO, VP and other executive email addresses for a company I have a complaint with.

      Typically when Execs start getting email about customer problems you are treated like royalty.

      I've received $500 gift card from Best Buy, $250 Customer Satisfaction refund from my bank, Unlimited Calling for 6 months with Vonage, a free laptop from Microcenter and many gift cards from restaurants, 2 free sets of Callaway golf clubs (due to incorrect packaging twice - factory mistake).

      I have a coworker who received a $800 rebate on her Apple computer using the same process I use.

      I have always made a point to also send emails in regard to excellent customer service.

      I recommend this process to everyone.
      • itsthebrod, on 07/23/2008, -5/+14So your process is to bitch to the wrong people, annoy them to the point of harassment, and then get money you're not entitled to?
      • cdahlkvist, on 07/23/2008, -5/+3No. My process is to complain to higher ups when I do not get the results I wish for from their terrible customer service.
      • t0x2c, on 07/23/2008, -1/+4Customer service employees, who neither lose or gain anything from you directly, could care less if you're happy or unhappy, besides the obvious point that if you're unhappy then they have to deal with you. They can't do anything for you because the higher ups don't let them do anything for you. I've never worked customer service, but it's more than apparent you haven't either.
    • breakaway, on 07/24/2008, -4/+2Isn't complaining and shifting blame the way of the white man though?
    • RadiatedAnt, on 07/24/2008, -2/+2BSOD?
    • a3sax, on 07/24/2008, -2/+2mouth?
  • leahpee, on 07/23/2008, -3/+224Who puts a $200 check on eBay? Idiot.
    • Coffeedemon, on 07/23/2008, -2/+186Better question is who buys a $200 check off eBay?
      • rationalbeats, on 07/23/2008, -0/+93The same people who bid on and buy a gift card for the same amount as the gift card is worth. I never understood that.
      • yesplease151, on 07/23/2008, -0/+31Shipping killed it for me
      • nunofgs, on 07/23/2008, -0/+46Well, I'd buy it for $50.
      • headband, on 07/23/2008, -2/+8with live cashback now you can get 20% cashback on purchaces so if you buy a giftcard its like getting 20% off whatever you buy with that
      • nizzy1115, on 07/24/2008, -0/+3Cept the live cash back servers have been crashing horribly lately preventing anyone who clicks on one of those links from having it actually work.
      • kr4z33, on 07/24/2008, -3/+1But...but.... it's not up for bid on Ebay! Bids are being taken, but not on Ebay.
      • zeeky, on 07/24/2008, -1/+2because he's donating the money to a cause
    • DaHuuuuuudge, on 07/23/2008, -7/+82The same kind of idiot that would donate money to Ralph Nader's presidential campaign.
    • raynar, on 07/23/2008, -4/+13"When he saw the Windows Vista EULA and the HP EULA, he decided he wanted to move to Linux. He wasn't happy that there wasn't an option to decline the EULA..."

      Sure there is. Its called "dont buy a prebuilt with Vista". What do you expect if you dont accept a eula? Is it supposed to say "Ok, you dont agree, but here, go ahead".
      • TnTBass, on 07/23/2008, -0/+7I expect it could boot past the POST screen and thus toss you an error "DISK BOOT FAILURE. INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER"
  • JasonCox, on 07/23/2008, -1/+73That's a lot of money considering HP sure as hell didn't pay $200 bucks for Vista; but hey, free money is good money!
    • bnolsen, on 07/23/2008, -3/+21This is a big part of the MS scam.

      First things first...there are laws in almost all US states against "product tying".
      A company can't just legally force you to buy windows with hardware. It's not legal.

      A big problem is the issue of purchase price. If the guy were to only receive a refund check of say $60, that would definitely entitle him the right to buy as many copies from HP for $60 as he wanted and resell those OEM copies at whatever price he liked. Again, reference the "product tying"

      The problem is that MS keeps a very tight lid on all of this by doing their OEM deals all under the table and using a big stick to enforce them. Sadly it seems the state & federal governments aren't willing to enforce a clear windows refund path, especially considering microsoft was convicted of anti-trust violations for "product tying" in the first place.
      • Scheissen, on 07/23/2008, -10/+1No one is forcing you to buy a Windows machine.
      • t0x2c, on 07/23/2008, -0/+6My selection is greatly limited if I decide not to buy a windows machine.
      • pikelet, on 07/24/2008, -0/+9I'm curious - how does product tying work with Apple getting you to buy OS X with their hardware?
      • zwaldowski, on 07/24/2008, -0/+3@pikelet: Some equally obscure law about exclusivity. A Mac is a Mac (this was easier to enforce back when they were PowerPC). Plus, you can't buy OS X in a store. It only comes with the hardware.
      • se1zure, on 07/24/2008, -1/+2That makes no sense. So I should be able to call up canon and ask for my money back because I don't want the firmware that came with the camera?
      • FutureGuy, on 07/24/2008, -1/+2But can they force me to buy the CPU or the bios?
      • diggmaddy, on 07/24/2008, -1/+2se1zure
        Sure, if Canon sells their Camera firmwares separately as a retail product.

        FutureGuy,
        Sure, if the mobo manufacturer sells the BIOS as a separate retail product.
      • kmolnar, on 07/24/2008, -0/+0@diggmaddy
        Thanks for making the point that drives all this chaos which people often neglect. Dugg!

        @zwaldowski
        Actually, you can buy OS X in stores and from Apple's website as a standalone product - $129.00 for a single license or $199.00 for a five-licence "family pack"

        http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB427Z/A?mco=476 ...
    • mdude85, on 07/23/2008, -0/+19I wouldn't exactly call dozens of hours of work and months of waiting "free money"
      • FutureGuy, on 07/24/2008, -1/+1He must have earned below minimum wage, genius.
  • salvadorwii, on 07/23/2008, -11/+1381. Print HP logo in normal check
    2. Put check on eBay
    3. ????
    4. Profit!
    • nightowl313, on 07/23/2008, -0/+20Somehow, I think underwear is also involved.
      • munkyxtc, on 07/23/2008, -6/+1Because much of the process takes place in a scene which closely resembles "Fat Mullethaired PC Repairman in underwear."

    • sysop073, on 07/23/2008, -0/+233) Make sure story gets on Digg
      • Shizlanski, on 07/24/2008, -2/+8The ??? step is finally revealed, hallelujah! Praise spaghetti!
      • pr0carbine, on 07/24/2008, -0/+2Ramen.
  • h4mx0r, on 07/23/2008, -4/+21What's the point of auctioning the check? No one's going to frame it... and if it's addressed to him then can anyone else even cash it? Hell, you can donate the difference directly to whatever you want. Even me.
    • Slade605, on 07/23/2008, -7/+2What's the point of replying to the comment?
    • Ratty, on 07/23/2008, -0/+8The Internet is full of weirdos. Hadn't you noticed?
    • mcm020, on 07/24/2008, -0/+2All he has to do is sign the back. You should know this.
  • caseycoold, on 07/23/2008, -3/+65Actual aArticle: http://equiliberate.org/?q=node/3
    wtf is with using a site, that found the article...
    in another article?
    • laserdog, on 07/23/2008, -1/+32It's called blog spam.
      • EtherGnat, on 07/23/2008, -2/+7...and casey's link is dead. There's nothing inherently evil about blogs. I haven't been able to read the original to see if ArsTechnica added anything to the discussion, but at least their server can handle more than 12 people at a time.
    • vat0r, on 07/23/2008, -1/+6Thanks man, that's more like it.
    • rmxz, on 07/23/2008, -1/+11The original was submitted to Digg too:
      http://digg.com/microsoft/How_I_got_a_Windows_Vist ...
      but apparently didn't get as many votes as the blogspam (or else the new Digg algorithm likes blogspam better).
    • arah91, on 07/24/2008, -1/+1To be fair the site did not find the article some person did and then a bunch other people said thy liked what that person found
  • gcnaddict, on 07/23/2008, -2/+12Well they kinda had to. I don't think HP was too keen about letting the guy return his computer because he was unhappy with software.
    • asnider, on 07/23/2008, -4/+1Actually, it says in the article that HP tried suggesting he purchase a different computer (of course, they obviously would have suggested another HP model, but still).
      • asnider, on 07/23/2008, -3/+1EDIT: Nevermind...I have now read the original blog post and apparently HP actually suggested he buy a Compaq.
      • Azuroth, on 07/23/2008, -0/+10Which is, conveniently, another HP model.
      • asnider, on 07/23/2008, -1/+2I was wondering about that. I suspected that HP manufactured Compaq, but I wasn't sure.
      • buddyfarr, on 07/23/2008, -0/+5Yes HP and Com-crap merged a while ago.
      • kmolnar, on 07/24/2008, -0/+0A long while ago. HP has been making the iPaq PDAs for about five years now.
  • rald84, on 07/23/2008, -1/+41holy crap and i paid $300 (inc. rebate and shipping) for a lenovo with vista. i should have tried this.
    • ColonelTribune, on 07/23/2008, -13/+2Vista, no less.
    • CletusTSJY, on 07/24/2008, -3/+4No, you should have tried not buying a Lenovo.
      • kmolnar, on 07/24/2008, -0/+2That's hardly fair. Lenovo's newer ThinkPads (for example, the R61) are good machines. I hate them because of the TrackPoint device and the weird ridges on the "mouse" buttons, but that's a personal gripe, not a thorough demerit for Lenovo.

        Let's try not to generalize!

        The R51e on the other hand - total crap.
      • mrkmrk, on 07/30/2008, -0/+2I like my T61p, personally. What would you suggest over it, really?
  • aphexcoil, on 07/23/2008, -4/+1751. Purchase $299 computer at Best Buy.
    2. Refuse the EULA.
    3. Collect $200.
    4. Return computer, pay 15% restocking fee.
    5. Profit $155.

    Rinse, lather, repeat ...
    • RetepNamenots, on 07/23/2008, -6/+41Or, you could just skip out all of those steps and just steal it...
    • bigsteve, on 07/23/2008, -0/+46Best Buy doesn't charge restock fee on desktops, only laptops.
      • tas08, on 07/24/2008, -0/+11Well THAT'S interesting. A laptop seems like a lot less work to "restock".
      • bigsteve, on 07/24/2008, -0/+1I used to work there, many moons ago. "Open-box" desktops just got put out on the shelves. Open-box laptops sat in the lockup cage forever, or were put on display in the limited number of laptop spots on the counter (each spot had this bear-trap looking thing it sat in to be locked in place.) So at my store at least, restocking a desktop was actually a lot less work.
    • digiguy, on 07/23/2008, -1/+22He wouldn't get back $200 if he returned the PC, unless HP are morons
    • motobreath, on 07/23/2008, -13/+0not sure how $299 - $200 for the check, return the pc, get charged 15% on $299 and walk away with $155? thats some crazy math if i ever did see any...
      • bpoteat, on 07/23/2008, -0/+14After returning the PC, you are out only $44.85, the restocking fee, and you have a check for $200. $200 - $44.85 = YOU FAIL!
      • clumsytime, on 07/23/2008, -2/+7motobreath: you fail at math, then...

        1. Buy / return PC assuming a 15% restocking fee: you pay $45
        1. Get $200 check from HP: you, well...get $200

        Net gain: $200 - $45 = $155. Are you retarded? Did you forget that in the "Return the PC" step you are getting back your $299?
      • EtherGnat, on 07/23/2008, -2/+10You work for Verizon, don't you?

        -$299 (PC) + $200 (Vista rebate) +$299 (return PC) - $45 (restocking fee) = $155

        You're right. That addition and subtraction is some crazy math.
      • erickh, on 07/23/2008, -2/+6$200 - ($299 * 0.15) = $155.15
      • cdahlkvist, on 07/23/2008, -1/+5Yeah, I was wondering about the math too.

        It's correct though. Assuming the restock fee then you lose $44.85 on the original $299 purchase.

        So he'd be ahead the $200 check from HP minus the $44.85 loss on restock of the $299 system.

        Comes to $155.15 profit.

        Still, I don't think Best Buy charges restock on systems.
      • rowjimmy, on 07/24/2008, -0/+7hey can somebody else post those equations, i'm not sure if i got it yet...
    • plnegative1, on 07/23/2008, -1/+12im sure that is illegal
    • Paulish, on 07/23/2008, -0/+1I think you are missing the hours he probably spent getting everything sorted out. Does sound like a good plan at first though.
    • Seafea, on 07/24/2008, -0/+2Go ahead and try that.
      Let us know how it works out for you, ok?
    • bassman12593, on 07/24/2008, -6/+2Correction:

      1) Purchase $299 computer at Best Buy.
      2) Refuse EULA.
      3) Collect $200.
      4) Auction check on eBay.
      5) Return computer, pay 15% restocking fee.
      6) Profit $205+
    • Shak, on 07/24/2008, -0/+10Shhhh.... Don't let out the secret. We hide the middle steps with ??? for a reason, silly.
    • HotSaucePanCake, on 07/24/2008, -2/+2thats called stealing
  • Lewie, on 07/23/2008, -9/+51Ralph Nader? Now I know this guy is crazy.
    • jebaird, on 07/23/2008, -1/+8agreed, he shows up about a year before the election, collects donations and disappears for another 4 years.
      • RobotLeAwesome, on 07/23/2008, -0/+7Haha, I'm glad someone else noticed.
    • AROZ, on 07/23/2008, -0/+4What a waste of money.
  • alimighty1, on 07/23/2008, -4/+48Or you know, just go to work for a week or so and make much more than $200
    plus, you don't have to waste months of your life calling HP.
    • netneutrality, on 07/23/2008, -5/+8I guess it's not the money, it's the satisfaction of having cheated the system.
    • Physicsmazz, on 07/23/2008, -0/+41He's a blogger, he's got nothing better to do.
    • D14BL0, on 07/23/2008, -2/+6Most people's day job doesn't land on the front page, though.
      • IHaveIssues, on 08/08/2008, -0/+1and that's worth a mention because ......?
    • Azulya, on 07/28/2008, -0/+0He didn't waste months of his life. Just like when you send in a mail-in rebate, you don't waste weeks/months of your life.
  • digiguy, on 07/23/2008, -5/+18He still has Windows on the recovery disk. Re-install to factory and accept the EULA... lol
    • azbmr, on 07/23/2008, -1/+12You assume too much. Most computers don't come with recovery disks these days. They make you burn your own when you first start up the machine (at least my Compaq did). You have to pay an extra $20 or so for a recovery DVD (if they even offer it).
      • digiguy, on 07/23/2008, -5/+1Lame reply comment, but your right, but my latest Dell did come with a Windows Vista disk this time. And maybe he did burn one. And Maybe he did purchase the Windows disk. Whatever.
      • encrypter, on 07/23/2008, -0/+10I think he meant the recovery partition
      • zwaldowski, on 07/24/2008, -0/+2@digiguy: Only Dells do that, right now. They also, cool-ly enough, have driver CDs for Windows.
      • kmolnar, on 07/24/2008, -1/+0Indeed, not even my fancy-ass Vaio came with a recovery CD. Which is fine, 'cause I would have thrown it away anyway. Though now I wish I had asked Sony for a refund of the Vista install I never used.
    • minionboy, on 07/24/2008, -2/+0That means you'd have to install Vista, why would you want to do that?
  • ColonelTribune, on 07/23/2008, -2/+13I wonder if more folks will start doing that now...
  • rccarter, on 07/23/2008, -19/+10What a douche.
  • tom957, on 07/23/2008, -14/+28This guy rules.
  • Khast, on 07/23/2008, -0/+23If more people actually sat and read the EULA of various products...more people would refuse to agree. The things they say you are liable for, they aren't the consequences, and heaven forbid their privacy section....
    • migshark, on 07/23/2008, -0/+5People want to be productive. If they're in need of a program badly enough to install it, then most really aren't going to stop what they set out to do on account of rights that they aren't using anyway. Unfortunate, but true.
    • sporg, on 07/23/2008, -2/+10I don't bother to read it because I just used a crack or keygen to install the program to begin with.
      • buddyfarr, on 07/23/2008, -13/+3if you are willfully installing Vista then you need to get a life....
      • MarkOfTheDead, on 07/24/2008, -1/+7@buddyfarr

        What if he has a dx10 capable card and wants to play some graphic intensive games?

        Ah, right. Better to cut off his nose.
      • Azulya, on 07/28/2008, -0/+0@MarkOfTheDead

        Microsoft removed everything about DirectX10 that made it Vista only, because nVidia wasn't able to support it on time. So it should be pretty easy to run it on XP.
    • se1zure, on 07/24/2008, -0/+2Well the EULA isn't a binding contract, and regardless of whether you agree to an EULA you are still completely liable for what you do on the computer (and in fact, the EULA would have little to no power in court)

      So it's pointless.
      • Azulya, on 07/28/2008, -0/+0The EULA isn't about what you can do, it's about what Microsoft can do to you, without you suing them.
  • dngbauer, on 07/23/2008, -1/+9I have had nothing but problems with my POS HP computer and they did'nt do dick for me but transfer me around and around to different customer service reps who could'nt speak english aside from what their computer screen is telling them to tell me to do. I soooooooo hate HP. Bunch of F'ing twatwaffles!
    • asnider, on 07/23/2008, -0/+9Customer service rep with a thick Indian accent claiming his name is "Bob?"
      • dngbauer, on 07/23/2008, -0/+4That would be the one!
      • buddyfarr, on 07/23/2008, -0/+6Microsoft BOB??
      • kmolnar, on 07/24/2008, -0/+1I have no trouble understanding Indian accents (well, actually, Punjabi accents in particular can be a bit rough), but I'd be much happier if Marduk Navarajnawari wouldn't claim his name was "Bill Simpson".*

        * This is an actual example, by the way. Last time I called Microsoft to reactivate XP for the thousandth time, I was greated by someone with a heavy Rajasthani accent who claimed to be "Bill Simpson". I just laughed and went, "dude, there's no way that's your real name", and he laughed back, giving his real name as the above. Oddly there's someone who works here with the same first name (Marduk) though I believe he's Sindhi, not Rajasthani...

        /tangent
      • asnider, on 07/25/2008, -0/+1I can usually understand Indian accents pretty well, although I find it harder on the phone than in person. I don't mind dealing with call centres in Indian, I just find it hilarious when they claim to have some non-Indian-sounding name. Don't insult my intelligence by claiming your name is John Smith with it's more likely to be Ranjit Singh or something like that.

        Apparently, there are now call centres in Indian where the employees have been trained to speak with American accents, which I find even funnier. That dude with the southern drawl on the other end of your tech support call might not be "Brian from Louisiana" like he claims. Might be Ranjit Singh after all...
  • Nysul, on 07/23/2008, -4/+1What? Vista ultimate OEM is less than $200 and I'm sure HP gets an even bigger discount than that. I'd be surprised if HP pays more than $100 for it.
    • iofthestorm, on 07/23/2008, -0/+7It's more like they paid him to shut up and stop bothering them. Since this was home the OEM version on newegg is $100 and I'd guess for HP it's like $50.
      • se1zure, on 07/24/2008, -0/+1HP probably doesn't pay a dime. Vonage and norton take the hit in exchange for their trialware.
  • aserer511, on 07/23/2008, -4/+3i dont't see the connection here, between a man refusing to agree to a EULA, and the publisher of that eula being compelled to in any way recompense the user for NOT AGREEING to their stated terms
    • nightowl313, on 07/23/2008, -0/+11No, no. He bought the computer with Vista, and a portion of his purchase price went to paying for that software. Because he refused to accept the EULA, and then claimed that he was going to install Linux, he received back 200 dollars from HP, NOT windows, for the price of the Vista software that he didn't use. I'm guessing that HP would then transfer that cost to Microsoft, as though the customer had simply returned a copy of windows.
    • geoken, on 07/24/2008, -0/+3The connection is that the terms of the EULA were only made available after he purchased the product. HP offered this person a product, took his money, then presented various restrictions on the use of the product which were undisclosed at the time of sale.

      If I sold you a car, then after receiving your money presented you with a EULA stating that use of the car is dependent on you driving me around whenever I needed a ride don't you think you'd be in the right if you asked for your money back?

      • jasmus, on 07/24/2008, -0/+1Yes, for the whole car, not just the added extra of the driving around part. While I agree it's a good thing that he managed to shake things up, I simply wouldn't have bought the product if I knew it contained features I didn't wish to pay for. The only reason I can see this is a good thing, is that it might get them to re-think their position on selling a laptop with no OS.
      • Azulya, on 07/28/2008, -0/+0@jasmus

        It's not that it "contained features he didn't want".

        It's that it came with a seperate, full featured, retail, commercial product, which added to the cost of the purchase, and which he wasn't given the terms on until after he bought the computer.

        It would be like if you bought a car with a 500$ retail stereo system included, but weren't told until after you bought the car that you could only use the stereo system to play oldies music. You would likely want your money back for it (not for the whole car though).
  • FractalPhono, on 07/23/2008, -3/+6Ok, so someone (supposedly) refused the EULA and got a refund on a part of a packaged bundle (compy + OS)? i guess it is cool for the guy that he was basically paid $200 to use linux instead of MSvista... ok is this story really dig worthy?
  • TheG2, on 07/23/2008, -10/+5This is old news, I did this a few years back with XP on my Dell (I already had a license) and has been done by many for years. And for the record, Vista is pretty good, have used it on my desktop for several years.
    • Mohonri, on 07/23/2008, -2/+6"Several years"? Didn't it only get to Alpha or Beta about two years ago?
    • kinerry, on 07/23/2008, -5/+7***** off microshaft employee!
    • TheG2, on 07/24/2008, -0/+1Well, 1.3 years. My mistake.

      By the way, I'm not a Microsoft employee, they don't have much use for open source web developers.
    • Azulya, on 07/28/2008, -0/+0@TheG2
      Good for stress testing your computer, maybe.
  • Gee1004, on 07/23/2008, -3/+11But he did buy a HP with Window's pre-installed, didn't he know that when he purchased it? HP are morons for returning his money for the OS.

    Okay, then everyone should get back $200 if they buy an HP computer and don't want Windows pre-installed. Just use that article and get back your money.
    • EtherGnat, on 07/23/2008, -2/+9"HP are morons"

      Yes, HP "are" morons for following the law and the license agreement. Maybe you should try reading it before you comment.
      • clharlem149, on 07/23/2008, -0/+2"By using the software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software. Instead, contact the manufacturer or installer to determine their return policy for a refund or credit."

        Nowhere in there does it say that the manufacturer is entitled to issue a refund for the software, only. I'm pretty sure HP has the right to make it their policy to request the return of the laptop as-shipped for a full refund or credit. If I buy a desktop package and don't want to use the bundled keyboard and mouse, should I be able to return these parts for a refund? Not if the company has a return policy that states that all parts must be returned to get any kind of refund. So yes, the people at HP are moons, for not having a return policy in existence to deal with this statement in the Vista EULA, and for dealing with this absence by giving in to a whining customer and issuing a refund check for nearly double the value of an OEM cd (see http://is.gd/11Wc or http://is.gd/11Wj [newegg prices]).
      • Gee1004, on 07/24/2008, -0/+1Yes, moron for letting him keep the computer with pre-installed windows and giving him back $200. Whos to say he won't go ahead and accept the EULA , after he gets the money. HP wouldn't ***** know.
    • buddyfarr, on 07/23/2008, -0/+3EtherGnat is right. The EULA usually states that you can return it if you don't agree.
    • carlosos, on 07/23/2008, -0/+5You do understand that you don't sign the EULA before buying the product, right?
      HP did the right thing by refunding the money for the Windows license. I wish other companies would do the same and not fight it as much.
      For example, try buying Windows in a retail store, open the box, and return it because you didn't agree with the license. By law they have to take the product back and refund the money because you didn't sign the agreement at the point of purchase but the stores have policies not to take it back even though they have to do it by law.
  • PhotonCannon, on 07/23/2008, -10/+13In soviet Russia you do not support Linux. Linux Supports you.
    • otros, on 07/24/2008, -0/+1you kill the joke with that delivery. (even tho it's already been beaten to death)
  • johndoesovich, on 07/23/2008, -9/+1Don't know how this even got on digg and should be buried. Reality is that he had to have been fully aware that vista was installed on the laptop prior to purchasing it. How would you not know it was on there? The packaging is very clear and so is the sticker on the front. If I were HP, I would have told him to take his rant back to the store and request a return.
    • buddyfarr, on 07/23/2008, -0/+0and then get sued? why don't you try reading the EULA before commenting too?
    • carlosos, on 07/23/2008, -0/+2He was aware of Vista but wasn't aware of the EULA at the point of purchase.

      @buddyfarr, He can't get sued for returning it to the store even if the EULA says to contact the manufacturer because he didn't sign the EULA!
  • kingbyu, on 07/23/2008, -1/+37After briefly looking over this guy's blog post, it seems to me that on the HP books, they weren't refunding his Vista money, just rather giving him what he wanted, adopting a "customer is always right" sort of philosophy. The "program name" on the check said "customer escalation" which indicates that it was paid out just because the customer complained loudly enough.

    Many good companies have some sort of account from which they can solve customer disputes. It seems to me that this guy was probably paid out of that account.

    I would guess though that the intentions of the guy were to hurt Microsoft by not providing them with the a sale of a Vista license. Instead, it came out of HP's pocket in their attempt to keep a customer happy. The title of the guy's blog post was "How I got a Vista refund from HP," but I would guess that he really didn't get a refund for Vista (a refund for Vista would mean that he was paid out of the Vista sales account). Instead of a refund, he just got some "please be a happy customer" money.

    I'm not saying that it is right to be forced into paying for bundled software that you don't want, but I also don't think it is right to pester someone (or some company) until they give in and give you some money just so you go away.
    • agaudet, on 07/23/2008, -0/+8Yea HP wont be giving any more refunds any time soon.
      After this issue an email was sent to the Total Care department stating to have the notebook returned and no more refunds for Vista.
    • MarkOfTheDead, on 07/24/2008, -0/+2Yeah but you also are informing the "innocent" HP that you know what kind of ***** they and microsoft are up to and no thanks. Dell started offering linux preinstalled on pc's because it was what customers wanted, not the ultimatum they were given.

      Granted, HP isn't some big evil overlord by any means, but they're at least somewhat responsible for forcing someone to take a pc with an operating system they may not want to begin with and have to pay the overhead of it, instead of perhaps running a cheaper older OS (xp) that could suffice for what they want to do and might run better instead of maintaining minimum specs, or a free one altogether like any flavor of linux.

      All it takes is one guy to start some ***** to get the word out. After all, this made it to the front page.
  • Slovenian6474, on 07/23/2008, -2/+8Ok so this guy is selling a $200 check for more than $200 and is going to donate anything over $200 to EFF or whatever. So, basically he's fishing for some dumb schmuck's tax deduction in addition to the money HP sent him.
  • n1eb, on 07/23/2008, -4/+28My car came with cupholders in the back, but I don't need or use the cupholders in the back. The manufacturer doesn't owe me $200 for the cupholders that I don't want. I should have chosen a car that didn't have cupholders in the back. "But he's talking about the EULA, there was no way for him to know it's contents until after the purchase." Then you take it back to the store and say you're returning it because of the EULA - like an *****. But you don't contact HP and demand a refund for the portion of the product that you don't feel like using.
    • Origin415, on 07/23/2008, -8/+1You can't buy a computer without windows on it. Why should he have to agree to Microsoft's terms to use an HP computer?
      • CaptainNoPants, on 07/23/2008, -0/+2"You can't buy a computer without windows on it."

        Who told you that?
      • Origin415, on 07/24/2008, -0/+1Well there are some Dells with Ubuntu now, but generally that is the case. Dells selection is extremely limited last I checked, only theyre budget level stuff, as opposed to the wide range of options if you go Windows. HP as far as I know, has nothing, nor anyone else besides Lenovo (again, very limited).
    • EtherGnat, on 07/23/2008, -3/+9Did your cupholders require you to agree to a license requiring you to give up many of your rights to said cupholders that you're required to agree to before you first drive the car? Did that same license tell you to contact the dealership for a cupholder refund/credit if the agreement was not to your satisfaction?

      If not, it's not remotely the same thing.
      • raynar, on 07/23/2008, -1/+2what rights are given up?
      • n1eb, on 07/23/2008, -1/+3Hey dummy, if you read my comment I already posed and answered your question, why are you repeating it?

        "But he's talking about the EULA, there was no way for him to know it's contents until after the purchase." Then you take it back to the store and say you're returning it because of the EULA - like an *****."
      • clharlem149, on 07/23/2008, -0/+2"Did that same license tell you to contact the dealership for a cupholder refund/credit if the agreement was not to your satisfaction?"
        if it existed, it probably wouldn't, the same way the Vista EULA doesn't. the Vista EULA just says to bother the manufacturer about a refund or credit. What is refunded or credited is left entirely up to the manufacturer.
    • slythfox, on 07/23/2008, -0/+3I think more importantly, it's a way of showing to companies that you don't want Microsoft's junk Vista. Dell understands, but other companies just don't get it yet.

      (Your analogy was terrible. What you're describing is not quite the same. And furthermore, the EULA talks about contacting the manufacturer... This is where it all starts.)
      • clharlem149, on 07/23/2008, -2/+1the analogy is not terrible; it actually puts the situation into perspective, very well. the presence of a EULA and only seeing the EULA after purchase does complicate things, but beyond that, it's all about policy. the Vista EULA doesn't state that one is guaranteed a refund for the value of the software if one does not agree to the EULA; it simply states to request a refund or credit, in general, from the manufacturer. how the manufacturer decides to issue the refund is all up to the company and their policy. so just as the car manufacturer can say "hey, i see where you're coming from, you shouldn't have to pay for those useless cup holders," or can say, "sorry, take it as-is or leave it," so can HP make similar policy (software-valued refund check, or return it all or don't return it at all).
    • sirhomer, on 07/24/2008, -0/+1Yes, if I had to sign a contract to use the cupholder and I refused the contract, it is my right to get a refund for the cupholder. It's plainly stated in the EULA itself.
      • Azulya, on 07/28/2008, -0/+0Especially if the cupholder is a separate commercial product produced by a third party, and has free alternatives that do the exact same thing but better.
  • scabbers, on 07/23/2008, -5/+6Cash the cheque and let someone who wants to donate to Nader donate to him by himself without giving you any more unwarranted attention?

    Bloody Linux freak.
  • jfreeman, on 07/23/2008, -1/+38No, I think he got $200 to shut up already.
  • bzaks, on 07/23/2008, -2/+7http://digg.com/microsoft/How_I_got_a_Windows_Vist ...
  • Palaceguard, on 07/23/2008, -3/+4Anybody that wants to run Linux on their HP can now do the same. HP will send you a check for $200. Here is your chance. Go for it.
    • agaudet, on 07/23/2008, -0/+1Yea HP wont be giving any more refunds any time soon.
      After this issue an email was sent to the Total Care department stating to have the notebook returned and no more refunds for Vista.
  • timeshifter, on 07/23/2008, -5/+12Maybe the title of his blog post should be "How I made $200 by being an annoying *****". HP is coming out way ahead on this deal by freeing up their employee's time to deal with real customers.
  • dondara, on 07/23/2008, -3/+27This is about being a dick. First off, who even reads those EULA's? They are just lawyer rubbish that can't be enforced. (You can't sell me something then try and force stipulations on that sale. You take the cash, deal is done.) He was just trying to make a point and HP tossed him some change and told him to ***** off. This guy is bragging about being annoying. He could have better spent his time.
    • mdude85, on 07/23/2008, -0/+3Actually, any or all of it can be enforced.

      "You can't sell me something then try and force stipulations on that sale. You take the cash, deal is done." Not true. Ever hear of contracts?
      • se1zure, on 07/24/2008, -0/+1Which you agree to or sign at the Point of sale. Not 6 months later.
    • buddyfarr, on 07/23/2008, -0/+3actually when you "buy" windows you don't own it, just the right to use it. Have you even read the EULA?
    • Azulya, on 07/28/2008, -0/+0@dondara
      You're completely wrong.
      The only reason Microsoft pays money to make those EULAs and include them in Windows is because they CAN be enforced. If they couldn't, Microsoft wouldn't waste money making them.
  • MrViklund, on 07/23/2008, -8/+2First of all, he should have a slap in the face for buy a pre-built computer.
    • buddyfarr, on 07/23/2008, -0/+0not everyone is a tech-head. most persons just want a computer to do their work, you know those end users that are there so that you have a job...
    • clharlem149, on 07/23/2008, -0/+4uhh, he bought a laptop genius. rtfa
  • rmxz, on 07/23/2008, -7/+2Vote for Dell to match this $200 price for the rebate on Dell's "IdeaStorm" site here: http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/10090841
    That's Dell's official site for user-contributed Ideas. Hopefully they'll listen.

    The last I've seen from Dell where someone mentioned the dollar amount, it was £55.23 in England, or only about $105 at the time.
    http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2006/110706-dell-wi ...

    $200 from HP sure sounds better than $105 from Dell.
  • IanPR, on 07/23/2008, -0/+5The funny thing is that he could easily do this, then still use Vista. O.o
    The license sticker is always on it, unless they removed it.
    • Crucible1001, on 07/24/2008, -0/+1The key will probably be disabled. I've had to reinstall XP for people that have legit key stickers on their computers only to find out the key is invalid when trying to activate windows.
  • clevercasey, on 07/23/2008, -4/+3Buried because he intends to donate money to Ralph Nader's campaign.
  • PrivateGuy, on 07/23/2008, -1/+2I'm putting my paycheck on ebay. Anything over what it's worth will go directly to me.
  • gamerzworld, on 07/23/2008, -2/+8"Bid starts at $250 for the check :) Use the contact form to make an offer. I'll be taking bids till 8/14/08. All $ over $200 will either be donated to Ralph Nader's presidential campaign or......"

    Is this a bad joke?
  • ShaffeyBoy, on 07/23/2008, -2/+2Buy the check for 100 bucks and cash it?
    • rockwithme000, on 07/24/2008, -0/+1Bidding starts at $250.

      Plus the check is made out to the blogger, how do you expect to cash it?
  • YodaJones, on 07/23/2008, -1/+5I hope this catches on and a lot of people start requesting a refund for the Windows infection on their new computers.
  • V1ncent, on 07/23/2008, -2/+4He should have held out for sex from the CEO
  • DocHobbes, on 07/23/2008, -1/+3uhm...isn't standard banking policy to only cash or deposit a check to the person it's actually made out to? I doubt HP would make it out to cash

    • tnoy, on 07/24/2008, -0/+1Have you never endorsed a check before? Its done so often that they even have a term for it.
  • mdude85, on 07/23/2008, -1/+2Hm .... no doubt this blogger made many of these phone calls during business hours I'm sure, and at work nonetheless. So maybe it is the blogger who should owe her company $200 for lost work.
  • noBananas, on 07/23/2008, -0/+3The blogger who did this is a FEMALE - not a male, as most commentators assume. Click on the "about" tab at equiliberate.org - there you can read the following...

    About the founder:
    Uncle_Benji is a 23 year old college graduate who holds a piece of paper, rightfully called a B.S., in mechanical engineering from the University of Hawaii at Manoa. >She< calls Kauai, Hawaii home...
    • clharlem149, on 07/23/2008, -0/+7whoa, sorry for assuming that someone who's blogger tag is Uncle_Benji is a male.
      and thanks for letting us all know; her sex is completely relevant to the content of this story.
    • 0Xonox0, on 07/23/2008, -1/+3You're wrong. There are no female bloggers.
  • Insanitation, on 07/23/2008, -1/+1This is nothing new...just a successful attempt by a blogger to get some attention by re-using an old story. I remember seeing articles about the same thing only with XP instead of Vista a few years back. It was why Dell started offering Ubuntu. (I used to work for Dell)
  • judicar, on 07/23/2008, -1/+1"After many phone calls, insistence from HP representatives that it does not support Linux (drivers and so on), suggestions to contact Microsoft instead or to choose another laptop, many e-mails back and forth, a letter to the CEO Mark Hurd, and months of waiting, uncle_benji received a check in the mail."

    Most companies have what is usually referred to as an "executive relations" team, they handle situations where a customer issue has come across the desk of a company executive. All this refund was was just a bribe to get him off their back and stop calling so they can tell the executive the matter is closed. If you're psychotic enough and have enough time on your hands you can usually get around 200-250 dollars out of any major company like this.

    Anyone who would spend this much time dicking around like this has a ***** screw loose.
    • equiliberate, on 07/24/2008, -1/+2It's uncool to present opinion as fact. So:

      I challenge anyone who has publicly announced that HP gave me $200 to make me "go away" to provide irrefutable proof that this is so.

      I'm not sure what their motivation was - but I'd like to know. Use the Contact form on equiliberate.org to do this.

      Frankly, if they wanted me to "go away", shouldn't they have simply said the refund policy is to not give refunds? Why all the stall tactics -
      Saying I will receive a phone call from a 'case manager' when they have no intention of calling?
      One guy said they are way too busy to take my call after 4 pm PST, but they are open till 5. WTF?
      Dawn said she was the only one in the office the first (and last) time I called. WTF?
      Why all the mistruths?
      Asking for a screenshot of the EULA and a copy of the receipt, over and over again?
      Offering a $200 refund and then trying to squirm out of it?

      I look forward to reading all the comments. Thanks for reading the story. I hope it is useful to someone.
  • lacreme, on 07/24/2008, -2/+8Congratulations blogger, you are a dick.
  • AppleGeorge, on 07/24/2008, -3/+6This guy is ***** annoying.
  • cufford, on 07/24/2008, -0/+3I'm a former independent computer store owner and service tech. Helping people with HP computers (they had bought elsewhere) kept me in business, along with Compaq computer customers. Two of the worst home PC makers of all time. Talk about pieces of *****.

    Oh...almost forgot about E-Machines - another big "fix-it" revenue stream for me.
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