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Digg's DRM Revolt - Forbes.com
forbes.com — User-powered content news site takes on its users--and loses.
sparrowvs- 4572 diggs
- digg it
- JonahB52, on 10/12/2007, -125/+14Yes, Kevin Rose, fight!
- z00kus, on 10/12/2007, -169/+10http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2338184677 - Join the 4,500+ Members in support!
- GawtMilk, on 10/12/2007, -20/+250Or you could go outside.
- wild, on 10/12/2007, -14/+30GawtMilk, thats the second comment you have made today that cracked me up. Thanks. :)
- MEE2, on 10/12/2007, -32/+2Favorite links: http://www.fsoj.org/articles/hddvd1.html
- Diggtatorship, on 10/12/2007, -100/+413Before the comments are overrun by people criticizing the 'rebellion', here's an explanation for those who don't understand it:
It wasn't about 'the numbers'
It wasn't about 'free speech'
It wasn't 'just a bunch of immature whining teenagers'
What Digg did went beyond any DMCA or legal issue. They censored stories and comments that had nothing to do with 'the numbers'. They went beyond simply deleting the offending content, and deleted user accounts.
Lots of people were banned just for talking about the censorship or criticizing digg! Posts like this one were getting peoples accounts deleted.
The Digg staff showed their true colors yesterday. They do censor, and have censored in the past, anything that they just don't like for whatever reason. THATS what prompted the rebellion more than anything.
If they need to delete 'the numbers' then fine! it's the law, we get it. But all you need to do is delete the number thats ALL. They went beyond that and started deleting whole stories, stories that only linked to 'the numbers', stories that simply discussed 'the numbers', and stories that discuss the censorship? HOW DO THEY JUSTIFY THAT?
Digg lost a lot of credibility yesterday, if you don't agree then you probably don't belong here. Go watch Fox news and fly your 'corporate shill' flag all you want. - bsolidgold, on 10/12/2007, -12/+121It's NOT illegal to make copies of your own DVDs. Thus, this number should be in the public realm. The DMCA is contradictory in this matter, however. It says Decrypting movies is illegal, but you're allowed to make backup copies... which is it???
- lordthor, on 10/12/2007, -20/+4I own it -.- http://digg.com/tech_news/I_OWN_the_HD_DVD_hex_key_Those_DMCA_letters_are_crap
okay, so I don't really know how legit that is, but I do know that the MPAA or whoever they represent owns the content that key unlocks - NOT the key itself. so how can they demand you take it down? That's a clear violation of freedom of speech, if you ask me. - profOblivion, on 10/12/2007, -18/+10@bsolidgold
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's possible and legal to make a bit-for-bit (i.e., raw) copy of a DVD, and this would not count as DRM circumvention - the DRM scheme would still be intact on the newly-created copy. - mt066, on 10/12/2007, -36/+22diggtatorship are you going to spam that message in every thread?
- DCJoeDogaswell, on 10/12/2007, -14/+4digg this story http://www.digg.com/offbeat_news/The_events_of_Digg_s_HD_DVD_night so we can get it added to the digg entry at wikipedia
- Philluminati, on 10/12/2007, -4/+36I don't want porn and illegal material to be riff on digg but I don't want supressed news either. They may start deleting stories of rival social sites, or reviews of products that rival the sponsors sites. I doubt they will anytime soon but if it's a choice of all or nothing - I'd rather they supressed nothing!
- AJH16, on 10/12/2007, -26/+9@diggtatorship
Yes they may have deleted articles that weren't directly posting the numbers, but that is more likely because they have a finite number of admins to moderate a very large base of user submissions. More than likely they didn't have sufficient time or resources to read through every single comment and story, so they took down anything that seemed like it might be offending. Quite possibly through queries to the back end database that didn't even require a moderator to directly approve the removal. I hardly think that given the situation, it can be blamed on them intentionally trying to censor discenting views. - dkm201, on 10/12/2007, -37/+41@diggtatorship
Knock off the ***** comment spam, you've already copypasted that enough - Rosco, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8@ mt066
You are asking the wrong question. The correct question should be, how many more front page stories are we going to see on Digg covering the same thing? - tokyomonster, on 10/12/2007, -77/+101RE: diggtatorship
If digg really censors things constantly, as you imply, wouldn't you think this would have happened ages ago? What happened yesterday WAS ridiculous, it WAS childish. It was a bunch of immature users that decided to turn on a FREE online service provided to them as a place to gather and aggregate interesting stories. This FREE online service is also provided by a PRIVATELY owned company who can do and say as they please with their properties. If the Digg users that were unhappy with the decisions made by Digg, inc. (which, by the way, were made in order to avoid litigation in order to continue serving the community--remember, Diggs only revenue is ad income, they have no way to monetize as of yet, and so I doubt they're very profitable) they should have stopped visiting the site, and used the free and open source Pligg model to make their own COMPLETELY democratic news aggregation service instead of attempting to destroy this one.
IF anyone showed their true colors yesterday, it was the extremely ungrateful Digg community who seems to be asking for more, and more with out attempting to give anything back. It was a shameful display of selfishness that really shows how spoiled some kids are.
And to "Digg lost a lot of credibility yesterday, if you don't agree then you probably don't belong here. Go watch Fox news and fly your 'corporate shill' flag all you want.", No, YOU don't belong here. If you don't agree with the site, and their policy's, and I don't believe any one is forcing you to visit the site. Go grab pligg, upload it to a server, and make your own ***** site instead of ***** with ours.
Gah! - OMGWTFROFLMAOx2, on 10/12/2007, -33/+21@diggtatorship
"Lots of people were banned just for talking about the censorship or criticizing digg! Posts like this one were getting peoples accounts deleted.
The Digg staff showed their true colors yesterday. They do censor, and have censored in the past, anything that they just don't like for whatever reason. THATS what prompted the rebellion more than anything.
If they need to delete 'the numbers' then fine! it's the law, we get it. But all you need to do is delete the number thats ALL. They went beyond that and started deleting whole stories, stories that only linked to 'the numbers', stories that simply discussed 'the numbers', and stories that discuss the censorship? HOW DO THEY JUSTIFY THAT?
Digg lost a lot of credibility yesterday, if you don't agree then you probably don't belong here. Go watch Fox news and fly your 'corporate shill' flag all you want."
No, lots of people were banned yesterday for being asshats and continuing to submit and promote duplicate stories. Not to mention all of the comment abuse that was going on (posting the same numbers in every ***** thread like the threadjackers that so many diggers despise..hypocracy much?). It was essentially a group of adolescents and adults acting like the demon-babies featured on "Super Nanny". Go sit in a corner and take a time out.
All that was needed was one or two stories dugg up to the top. That's all. Everyone would have gotten the point, but no. You assholes had to submit literally hundreds of stories and promote them all. I would have banned you all as well and shut this mother ***** down for 24 hours and posted a message on the front page saying "I own this site not you. I make the rules. Get over it." just to piss you guys off. If you're costing me money anyways, and you are costing Digg money with your asinine antics, fine. ***** you, get off my property.
And lets be honest, 80% of the idiots making the noise won't even use the ***** code that was posted in the first place. They'll just google "HDDVD crack" and get it from some warez site like they do EVERY OTHER KEY EVER DISCOVERED.
Digg didn't lose credibility yesterday, the ***** user community that decided to "rebel" lost what little credibility it had. I'm willing to bet you jackasses drove more people away than the admins.
P.S. What's even more pathetic is the amount of time and energy you put into this "revolt" that could have been used in so many more productive ways that would have ACTUALLY AFFECTED THE WORLD.
/rant - lynxpardinus, on 10/12/2007, -34/+28@ diggtatoship
"It wasn't 'just a bunch of immature whining teenagers'"
Your whole spam-ramble is nothing more than teenage whining. It is very simple: read the terms of use, there are rules and if you don't follow them your post and/or your account will be deleted. Period, end of story, no more "buts" or "ifs". - worldsbestgamer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20Technology certainly seems to help a lot of lawyers get rich. Everyone is suing everyone over it.
- ninti, on 10/12/2007, -21/+44Agreed Diggtatorship. I hope Digg learns the right lessons here, it's obvious that the news papers covering this aren't getting the point. If the admins had handled this properly they could have kept this from becoming the explosion it was.
1. Be transparent and upfront; silently deleting messages does not work, people will notice and your attempted secrecy will only aggravate the situation. You need to tell people what is going on, so communicate it.
2. If you do need to delete something, don't delete people just talking about it. If there is anything the Internet community hates, it is censorship. If you make an unpopular decision just live with the debate, name calling, and complaining; it is part of being an Internet community. This isn't the first time you have deleted user accounts and squashed debate because it was critical of Digg, but you finally got burned by it. It would be smart to never do it again. - fcdsbh07, on 10/12/2007, -14/+9I agree... the only people who showed their "true colors" were the digg users. At least the guys at digg have a better idea of our "demographic" (read: 12-18 year old) now, and might be able to use that to get better advertising dollars...
In a democracy, you don't have a vested right to do something that harms other people. Call it an overreaction by digg, but I would hardly call deleting "stories, WITH COMMENTS!!!" relating to matters of legal concern to be an infringement on rights. Everyone wants to be "assassinated", but in reality, you just got "shot." - hockey, on 10/12/2007, -18/+11@diggtatorship
1. Yeah lay off on the comment spam. You posting this in every thread gets old.
2. I "understand" perfectly what everyone is saying and I do indeed "get it". I frankly just don't care and I think last night's "revolt" was one the lamest things I've ever seen in all my time online. - tokyomonster, on 10/12/2007, -20/+11All of you that agree with Kevin's decision are agreeing that it's ok for a company cave in to the demands made by users after a virtual hostage takeover. That is the most unethical thing I have ever heard. Instead of taking the high road, the users resulted to bully tactics. Pathetic.
- Diggtatorship, on 10/12/2007, -21/+34@mt066 - Nope, I'm done thanks.
@ajh16 - I can apreciate that that may have been the case, but if so why don't they say so. Also, why don't they unban the users who were unjustly banned, and un-bury the legit stories that were censored? If Digg was justified in what they did they certainly have done a piss-poor job of explaining themselves.
@dkm201 - Consider it done
@tokyomonster
RE: diggtatorship
"If digg really censors things constantly, as you imply, wouldn't you think this would have happened ages ago?"
It happens every day. You never hear about it because they: A. delete the offending story B. delete the user C. ban any IP address that user has ever connected from. They have gotten away with silencing critics in the past, yesterday the got called out on it.
"What happened yesterday WAS ridiculous, it WAS childish."
The Boston Tea Party was also ridiculous and childish. I'm not presuming to compare the magnitude and implications of the two events, but the principles behind them are almost indistinguishable.
"If the Digg users that were unhappy with the decisions made by Digg, inc. they should have stopped visiting the site, and used the free and open source Pligg model to make their own COMPLETELY democratic news aggregation service instead of attempting to destroy this one."
Yeah, thats a great idea, if you disagree with something, don't voice your opinion, just leave. It's always better not to question those in power.
"If you don't agree with the site, and their policy's, and I don't believe any one is forcing you to visit the site. Go grab pligg, upload it to a server, and make your own ***** site instead of ***** with ours." (yours? don't you mean ours?)
I think one thing we can all agree on is that Digg is simply THE best place to get news online. I would prefer to keep it that way rather than watch it loose its relevance and integrity. Which is why I refuse to just sit there and act like nothing's wrong when legitimate discussion is no longer allowed on digg. - Beatmiser, on 10/12/2007, -30/+21I'm sorry @diggtatorship, but you are wrong. Pure and simple. This site is not a democracy. It is a privately owned company, and their TOS specifically states that any time ANY sort of DMCA Takedown Notice is filed, they will FOR THEIR OWN PROTECTION remove the offending material rather than face litigation. Furthermore, as it's in their TOS they are not beholden to explain bans or takedowns to anyone. Don't like it? Leave.
Those of you who threw a tantrum yesterday did so while causing harm to the very thing you seek to protect. This wasn't some noble act of Civil Disobedience. This was a bunch of digg users having fun kicking and screaming simply because they could. It was absurd, and it was sad. It made the digg community look like a bunch of 4chan'rs or worse Blizzard's WoW General Forums. It defies logic that you all would expend this kind of energy on something that 99.99% of you will never use, or could find elsewhere with ease. If this was such an important piece of information, why did you not know it had been out since February?
It shames me that I live in a country where the bulk of you would rather throw a cyber-bitch fit over something that was NOT censorship or even shady. Go out into the street and start yelling about the code and how it's censorship and how you are acting out civil disobedience, while the thousands around you worry about real issues and real problems in this world...at least you'll finally have gotten some sun. - Diggtatorship, on 10/12/2007, -9/+40@Beatmiser
You said it yourself. The numbers are irrelevant.
99% of those involved would never even use them and those who would use them would inevitably get them elsewhere.
What part of "It wasn't about 'the numbers' It wasn't about 'free speech'" did you not understand? - Beatmiser, on 10/12/2007, -14/+3@Diggtatorship.
You want to harass someone about free speech or censorship, or choosing what goes on this privately owned site go talk to the actual people imposing the DMCA Takedown Notices- not the people providing a service and acting in their own interests that is unless of course YOU are willing to pay their fines. - Fhwqhgads, on 10/12/2007, -11/+4So how many times is this exact same story going to be posted here from every possible website on the internet?????
- tokyomonster, on 10/12/2007, -13/+6Diggtatorship. You can't use the free speech argument with a private company! How many times does that have to be said?!? They reserve the right to moderate, remove, or modify any content posted to their site! Period! It is their right! And they can do it! Whenever they want! If you don't like it, like I said, make your own site, where they won't do it. I'm not saying I may agree with their use of this right all the time, and it's certainly fine to disagree with it, but taking the site down because of it is stupid. By using this site, and signing up, you are agreeing to their terms of service, which says that the owners of the site can dictate what happens on the site, NOT the users. You have every right to bitch about how upset it makes you on this site, because the owners are letting you, but personally, and I think many other users agree, it's getting ***** annoying. And fortunately, the owners have given us users the option to silence you.
- Diggtatorship, on 10/12/2007, -14/+41I hate to repeat myself, but you're obviously misunderstanding me.
I fully support(and expect) them in doing what they have to do to not get sued. In fact thats exactly what they should have done and this never would have blown up.
All that was required of them legally was to remove the any instances of 'the numbers' from the website.
So why didn't they just delete the numbers? who knows, maybe there's a good explanation. IF there is, we certainly haven't heard it. Instead they deleted and banned any discussion(including legitimate discussion) on the topic.
Then, to add insult to injury, and fan the flames a bit, they started deleting and banning any discussion of censorship. Are we not allowed to discuss censorship on Digg? Are we not allowed to speak ill of Digg in any way or discuss their policies? Time will tell... - ninti, on 10/12/2007, -8/+18"This site is not a democracy. It is a privately owned company, and their TOS specifically states that any time ANY sort of DMCA Takedown Notice is filed, they will FOR THEIR OWN PROTECTION remove the offending material rather than face litigation. Furthermore, as it's in their TOS they are not beholden to explain bans or takedowns to anyone. Don't like it? Leave."
As has been mentioned in this thread several times, this wasn't about the key as much as about the censorship. Are you reading before you post? Because you really should, it will make you look like less of a troll/stupid.
But, yes, they do have the right to do whatever they want. They can ban their critics all they want and censor whatever debate they like . But just because they can, does it mean they should? This is a site that relies 100% on the users, and they can't simultaneously censor speech and expect a healthy and lively community. I want an online community where I can say what I like without fear of reprisal from the powers that be, don't you? - jspegele, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1While I don't agree with censoring the key, or articles about it, I do think there should be site moderation. Think about Digg's userbase; if there is absolutely no site moderation, Digg will become overrun with porn.
- MrStabby, on 10/12/2007, -14/+2@diggtatorship
What you're doing is called "flip-flopping" to save face...
It's all about semantics really, what you said up front is what you meant...and what you said was ludicrous, unjustified, and simply WRONG.
So take your faux anarchist mentality elsewhere where it's valued...Like Cuba...or San Fransisco... - Diggtatorship, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16@MrStaby
O RLY? and where have I flip-flopped?
Lets see, I started out this thread saying: "But all you need to do is delete the number thats ALL."
Then I ended it with "All that was required of them legally was to remove the any instances of 'the numbers' from the website."
Just to humor you I've read my comments repeatedly looking for anything that might be considered flip-flopping.... care to point it out maybe? If you're going to confront me, at least do it with facts or opinions, lies will get you nowhere. - BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13"""Diggtatorship. You can't use the free speech argument with a private company! """
Erm, he said a long while back that people weren't. If you're in the habit of replying to comments you haven't read, you're going to be wrong. A lot.
"""What you're doing is called "flip-flopping" to save face..."""
No, "flip-flopping" is what the world's biggest liar accuses people of when he's scared of them.
Being called a "flip-flopper" is a compliment. - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4[quote]Or you could go outside.[/quote]
Was this comment inspired by Conan O'Brien's tour of ILM yesterday?
If you missed it, he said the same thing to some ILM employees. And also pointed out that the ratio of men to women at ILM is 8000:1. Sounds like Digg, doesn't it?
(DRM bad) - rasterbator, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2As a free site/service to its users and the internet community, Digg can censor whatever they want. However, if this were a pay site/service, Digg would be responsible to do as the subscribers request, or update their TOS to include such actions. SInce DIgg users currently DO NOT subscribe to the site/service, the revolt was useless, other than to fill the servers with a lot of garbage, AND give Digg a good reason to charge for the site/service of hosting all of these pages/comments.
Thanks for that, Digg revolters... - renorydazbp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I think what is most interesting about this is if you participated in the revolt you helped them with a massive amount of publicity. Whether or not they are more or less creditable is irrelevant now; they are far more well known.
- Octopie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12when you guys say the numbers you mean 4 8 15 16 23 42 right
- KriTenKs, on 10/12/2007, -8/+6@diggtatorship
Im sorry but you completely lost all credibility in my eyes when i realised your username is diggtatorship. Seriously? Seriously! How do you even hope be taken seriously? Please...
What the digg team did yesterday was pretty extreme, i agree. But they're not Evil! They havent been bought! Sorry dude but dont this into some sort of crusade. You're just a troll looking to feed your own ego. - generalloy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6"If digg really censors things constantly, as you imply, wouldn't you think this would have happened ages ago? What happened yesterday WAS ridiculous, it WAS childish. It was a bunch of immature users that decided to turn on a FREE online service provided to them as a place to gather and aggregate interesting stories. This FREE online service is also provided by a PRIVATELY owned company who can do and say as they please with their properties. If the Digg users that were unhappy with the decisions made by Digg, inc. (which, by the way, were made in order to avoid litigation in order to continue serving the community--remember, Diggs only revenue is ad income, they have no way to monetize as of yet, and so I doubt they're very profitable) they should have stopped visiting the site, and used the free and open source Pligg model to make their own COMPLETELY democratic news aggregation service instead of attempting to destroy this one."
Sorry, but they did censor things because of teh AACSLA as well has the HD DVD sponsorships, but good look finding the articles on here, you'll likely find the "sorry, error" page. Did you know there were TWO stories before Digg went on the deleting, banning rampage? THAT is what triggered all the other posts. It seems like facts are being mixed up by the people who weren't actually here, and unfortunately the pages that show this were deleted. If the HD DVD sponsorship caused that (and I suspect it might have since the keys were posted in FEBRUARY/MARCH), Microsoft or Intel can do exactly the same.
This privately owned company makes money off its users submitting news stories. Digg's whole point is therefore the users.
BTW-- censorship in the form of fear of the DMCA is still censorship, because its power comes from a bad law that the US government made. - Diggtatorship, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11@kritenks
why don't you take a second and look at my profile. I've been around a lot longer than this fiasco has been. I've actually been around since the birth of digg(my first account was under another name) and I've always been a big digg supporter. I love this site as much as the next guy.
How about instead of discrediting me based on your flawed assumptions about my name, why don't you ask me where I got it? - KriTenKs, on 10/12/2007, -9/+1Dude, that just makes it worse. You're like an internet Jack Thompson.
- luvkit, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1All I gotta say is I hope people like Kevin Rose start running the corporations of the future. He's real, respectful, and he actually does what his customers want... even at some jeopardy to his company.
The companies that comprise the RIAA and MPAA should take note of what their customers want instead of denying them, and talking like politicians. - Diggtatorship, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@kritenks
"Dude" you aren't making any sense. - Gutterpunk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Kevin Rose and co probably got more ad hit money today that in all the last month.
Tell me again how this was bad for Digg or how we made a difference?
- GottIstTot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+48You know, I can help but think that this whole controversy is very very good for the HD-DVD format. Sure, it will increase piracy, but it will also increase the format's awareness. Basically HD-DVD just received a HUGE boost in advertising. With stories about the "Digg Revolt" hitting Forbes, BBC, Cnet, this has to be good in many ways. Many linux fans and others can now use HD-DVD hardware in their systems to play movies. This might be the end of the format-wars, unless of course the Blu-Ray keys are "leaked" this week...
- All4not, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14It will also increase the awareness of digg.com to people that haven't heard of it before. Although the article does make it sound like digg is linking to copyrighted source code and not a decryption key.
- SIDSI, on 10/12/2007, -18/+5Who cares they own the site they can censor you fags all they want
- redavni, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Blu-Ray was cracked as well by the same method, at the same time, by the same people, using the same keys, and yet no one on digg seems to know it.
I really don't know what to make of that...but whatever. - bobothn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7bluray and hddvd use the same encryption if one encryption got broken they both did. unless i am much mistaken. it is probably due to the fact that People on here don't care about blu-ray and all that sony BS
- B3nno, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's not that no one cares about bluray, it's just that it has 2 other defensive mechanisms besides the algorithm already found, and therefore isn't as compromised as hd-dvd is..
- diggEntertainer, on 10/12/2007, -39/+49In other news, the last batch of intelligent Digg users has moved to Reddit:
http://reddit.com/info/1mpwr/comments
Digggers have lost the right to poke fun at MySpace users, because now they've proved that most of them are 12-year old kids. Digg me down for telling the truth.- wild, on 10/12/2007, -30/+17Yep, thats mature. "Waaaaahhhhhh! You won't let me post whatever I want on your servers so you don't get sued! You bastards! I am leaving and taking my whiny ass along with it..."
Probably the same people who said, "If Bush gets reelected, I am moving to Canada!" Guess what? They are still here... - CraigJ, on 10/12/2007, -4/+46Screw you guys, I'm going home...
- UrsusMorologus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Reddit is no better IME
- greatblackowl, on 10/12/2007, -15/+17I think many people (almost including myself) left the site because of the endless spamming of "the numbers" stories. Digg me to oblivion, but I think it's ridiculous what happened last night.
It helped me realize that, between the endless flame wars, idiotic comments, and "user revolt" (what the *****?), the userbase of this site is a cesspool of filth whose only crutch is internet anonymity. - xtmno3, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12"It helped me realize that, between the endless flame wars, idiotic comments, and "user revolt" (what the *****?), the userbase of this site is a cesspool of filth whose only crutch is internet anonymity."
see:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19 - ratbear, on 10/12/2007, -13/+10I am ***** embarrased to be associated with Digg at this point. Find some other site to engage in some farcical "Revolution" over a now defunct DVD decryption key.....Shout it out in your own neighborhood for all I care...see how long the neighbors will tolerate the sound of your ***** squeaky ass sanctimonious voice....
- wild, on 10/12/2007, -30/+17Yep, thats mature. "Waaaaahhhhhh! You won't let me post whatever I want on your servers so you don't get sued! You bastards! I am leaving and taking my whiny ass along with it..."
- mikefitz2, on 10/12/2007, -18/+4can somebody post the key again? i forgot to write it down, thanks!
- VJ42, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3If you really wan't it, /. now has it as a story tag. You can find it anywhere in the related stories: http://slashdot.org/tags/hex09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
- n8r0n, on 10/12/2007, -14/+77Ok. We get it. Digg users rioted. We all know this, we ARE Digg users. I am getting tired of this already.
- TheTap, on 10/12/2007, -8/+35I agree, it's been beat to death. Let it go.
In related news, as I've discussed this (rebellion) with a coworker today, I've had to explain to about 15 people what Digg is.
All I get is: "if it's that popular, how come I never heard of it?"
... because, of your 100 bookmarks, 80 are to mySpace pages.... - maffiou, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10It's funny to see how much coverage this event has generated...
Even mainstream media in France have reported it:
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-651865,36-904601,0.html?xtor=RSS-3208
Maybe it's more significant than we think ? - nytechy, on 10/12/2007, -12/+6Everyone go READ the TOS. The one you accepted when you signed up for an account. Digg can do what ever they feel is necessary. You have no rights..just like every other site you create an account with. Get used to it!
Digg. On! - mythandros, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7@nytechie
Freedom is not free.
My rights may be God given but it's my ass that's going to have to bleed to protect them.
Don't "get used to it". That's exactly what the Incorporated States of America and it's constituent lobbyists want We the People to do: "get used to it." I've got a better idea. How about you grow a spine and take a stand? - clorby, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4@mythandros
yah, buddy. you sure bled a whole lot by spamming a free webiste with a string of hex numbers. i hope you heal up real soon! don't work too ahrd or those stitches might come out.
give me a break. if internet postings are trying to pass as protest and "sacrifice" these days, we're pretty much screwed. how many of you big talkers would be keen to get arrested to "protect your rights"? an anonymous protest means NOTHING. none of these fools sacrificed a goddamn thing.
- TheTap, on 10/12/2007, -8/+35I agree, it's been beat to death. Let it go.
- bunnymanjp, on 10/12/2007, -9/+1this is actually bad unviersal will see the sales go even more low then it already is and support blu ray too and hd dvd will have no choice to shut down
also i hear blu ray has a similar drm but i also they can change the key or sumthing any time? - kenvsryu, on 10/12/2007, -11/+2has digg produced this 'cease and desist declaration' or answered if they are here to protect their sponsors? digg has not lost since mainstream media coverage like this is priceless.
- sjbdallas, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7Mainstream media coverage ends up moving you the the top of the "needs to get sued" list (see: napster, youtube, etc).
While it was great that DIGG users showed their power, it is unfortunate that the real losers in this will end up the creators of DIGG. The users will always have somewhere else to go but behavior that shines a light on some of the potential pitfalls of a system like DIGG will end up killing the system in the long run. - mythandros, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13@sjbdallas
So you're saying that we shouldn't fight for our rights because someone might get hurt? - TomRemixed, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4It's not your right. It's their right to delete accounts and stories because they are PRIVATELY owned. They could make it so only stories about ducks get to the front page. Maybe you hate ducks or don't agree with ducks but they can do whatever the ***** they want.
- generalloy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2tomremixed: except then, Digg would suck. Privately owned companies can do what they want, abiding by the law, but they still have to make money. Digg's users are its money, so you see they can't really do *anything* they want.
- sjbdallas, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@mythandros
What right is that? Freedom of speech? The Bill of Rights states that "Congress shall make no law.....abridging the freedom of speech". I'm not talking about anyone outlawing the ability for you to post the code anywhere you want, I'm talking about the eventual consequences of posting the code as dictated by previous experiences. There's no reason for us to invite harsh consequences by going to such extremes. Besides, what most folks were really doing was basically anonymously shouting the code from random rooftops. If they really thought they were fighting for their rights and not hiding behind DIGG, they should have bought a domain, posted the code and posted that on DIGG so that they were the ones taking the hit, not Kevin Rose and his team.
- sjbdallas, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7Mainstream media coverage ends up moving you the the top of the "needs to get sued" list (see: napster, youtube, etc).
- bsteng0147, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0@kenvsyu
I believe we have BBC, Forbes and other sites to thank for keeping digg up. The traffic they are recieving must have something to do with this :D - booga1134, on 10/12/2007, -20/+5That was hilarious last night. The powerball numbers are 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
- PromaneX, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5your just showing how immature you are by doing that. What is the point in posting it just for the sake of it?
- leftfoot, on 10/12/2007, -16/+33This is getting old.
Can we move on now?- markforbrains, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8What on earth would we talk about?
- Sandkat, on 10/12/2007, -7/+44How is this getting old? The story of the Digg Revolt of 07 is less than a day old and is now just starting to be picked up by major news agencies.
- stubadub, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Studies have indicated that news stories on a social news site only generate interest for a couple of hours before dying. It might have just hit major news sites, but this has gone on constantly for more than 24 hours on Digg. There are probably plenty of users thinking "C'mon, this is old news already!"
- Philluminati, on 10/12/2007, -11/+3Hopefully Digg will learn that user powered content means users have the power. We are the most important people on digg. The sponsors wouldn't care about Digg if we weren't there. Let this be a lesson to those who try to suppress us.
"I shall digg down, with great vengence, and furious burying
those who attempt to poison and destroy our community
and you know my name is philluminati when I cast my thumb up on thee"
-- Philluminati, Digger. - trenchcoat, on 10/12/2007, -13/+12And the circle jerk continues.
- lifewithryan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3anyone have an ongoing list of the user accounts that were banned/deleted for merely talking about it? (I'm not talking about those that posted the key, I couldn't give two *****...) I'm referring the banned accounts that we supposedly banned for just discussing the key, its censorship, and bad mouthing digg...
Just curious to see how much of that complaining is *****, and how much is actually justified. Anyone have that list? Anyone have the proof that they were banned simply for bad mouthing digg?- generalloy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yes, but the pages were deleted on Digg. You have to find them in the Google Cache, search for HD DVD sponsorship, that sort of thing.
- merdiesel, on 10/12/2007, -14/+45This is getting old??
Someone must be upset they missed out...
Last night was the single most exciting thing (next to discovering porn) that has happened on the internet in a long time.- kidtsunami, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3man the internet must be really boring
- Catsmacking, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5I am glad your wet dream came true. However, for the sane and loyal digg posters, what happened last night was a disgrace. Not only did you allow for no communication before doing your little "revolution" but you did it to a site that has been, in every other case, good to us.
- scotus, on 10/12/2007, -14/+35has no one put this in a context all you whiners can understand?
1. There are free speech issues involved here. The HD-DVD people are trying to use a law to engage in a prior restraint against anyone who posts this number. Have you looked at the DeCSS gallery before? http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/ . Protected speech? Or unprotected infringement? And in this case, this isn't even an executable program. I bet a tiny, tiny percent of people here even have any idea what to do with this number. I sure don't. It's not a circumvention device, and allowing speech to be censored online in the name of intellectual property does not bode well for the internet as a medium of communication.
2. People were not just upset about Digg blocking the number. Many people understood they were protecting themselves. People were upset because Digg was deleting entire stories (including comments) and deleting posts that did not contain the number. I had a post deleted just for discussing the legal issues involved. It did not contain the number, and neither did any other post I made. That went above and beyond what Digg needed to do to protect itself from lawsuits. It demonstrated real callousness to the community.
So try to think a bit more deeply about this. It may have looked a bit juvenile at times. But deep down it wasn't. This wasn't a riot. A protest or a revolt, maybe. This was about speech online and Digg treating its users with respect.- scotus, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3i guess you whiners really don't understand. fine.
- Philluminati, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Its not much different to "Partial Disclosure" of a security flaw for a product. It's just knowledge now.
- Travelsonic, on 10/12/2007, -9/+2By whiner, do you by chance include yourself? You seem to give enough of a ***** about this in the way your post that it is hard to tell.
- Grrreen, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8@scotus
Personally, I felt it was a waste of time, energy and bandwidth - and it was juvenile; And invariably those who insisted on posting all that noise came across as the whiners.
I dugg down every single post I could find with the code in it, not because I disagreed with the logic behind them, but because I felt it was a massive waste of energy which could have been applied in much better, more constructive ways.
As I posted in a number of the threads, it would be nice to see people putting that much effort into things that actually make a difference in this world; like bringing awareness to and stopping the genocide in Darfur, or stopping a pointless war in the Middle East, or feeding starving people and getting the homeless off the street.
Let's get *THAT* stuff on the front page of BBC and Forbes.
In response to my posts, someone said to me, "isn't free speech just as important as these things?"
Give me a break.
What happened yesterday has absolutely *nothing* to do with free speech. No one's free speech was curtailed in any way. If you wanted to release the code you could put it on your blog or your own site at any time, and no one would stop you. What you all did yesterday was akin to coming into someone's house and telling everyone else who came in that they fold their towels wrong. Then when the owners told you to go ***** yourself and get out, you got all sullen and bitchy and brought all your friends to come trash their place, yelling, "free speech! free speech!"
If you are invited into someone's house and start trashing the joint, they have every right to toss your ass out on the curb and not let you back in.
My thought is that if you need to feel powerful, at least feel powerful in a way that will make a real difference in the world. - Shdwdrgn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Something I haven't seen anyone cover in these threads... There are still a lot of people who really care about what goes on in our world and would love to be able to do something about it. For the most part, those of us in the USA are feeling essentially powerless to change what's happening around us. People try to write their congressperson to express their views, sometimes they attend protests, and no matter what we do, some corporation comes along with their huge bankrolls and either buys off votes or hire lobbyists to sway the votes. The little guy never wins when a majority vote can be had to the highest bidder.
Last night's fiasco here on Digg, however, shows that people ARE still paying attention to what is happening, and more importantly, they WANT to be able to make changes. With the power of the internet, and a system where votes and personal opinion really does matter, a real difference can be made, and individual's voice can be heard, and changes can be made that are better for everyone. So instead of continually bashing what happened last night, perhaps people should be looking more towards the positive side of what happened... The people made a stand and a policy change was made. If this sort of power was available to the people to change what is happening in government, imagine how we could shape this (or any) country! Of course I'm sure that politicians in general will cower in fear at such an idea.
And for those who will inevitably argue that the people *do* have that kind of power now, need I remind you that we as a species are generally lazy and will always go along with whatever option requires the least effort? With computers and the internet now at our disposal, we have the ability to make our voices heard, with extremely little effort. We just need a forum where those voices could be heard, and actually acted upon... - generalloy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2grreen: I disagree with you. The DMCA is a bad, bad overreaching law, as I've said before, and the fact that Wikipedia couldn't even open it's Digg or AACS page for editing because fear that a number could shut them down is a grave attack on free speech.
The law should not cover up for the inherent flaw in DRM, and by doing so, abridge your first amendment rights.
Archimedes is spinning in his grave right now. - Grrreen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@generalloy
"and the fact that Wikipedia couldn't even open it's Digg or AACS page for editing because fear that a number could shut them down is a grave attack on free speech."
Again, as I stated previously. No one is stopping you from posting the number on your own web space. Start a blog and post it a million times. No one is taking away your right to free speech. It's a tired argument.
If someone comes up to your house and tags it with their can of spraypaint and you ask them to stop, are you taking away their right to free speech? No, of course not. You are saying, "I don't want this ***** on my house".
Now imagine that your house is Digg or Wikipedia.
The real point is that all of these juveniles from last night are using someone else's property to make their "stand against the man", and then complaining and vandalizing the property when the owner says to them, "Hey, I don't want that ***** on my house. Take it somewhere else." It's simply childish and a misdirection of purpose that doesn't end up making any real difference.
And before you all get bent out of shape saying that Digg never asked you not to do it, the simple fact that they were deleting posts should have been the clue you needed. Like slamming your door in the face of the Jehova's Witness on the other side, it gets the message across fairly succinctly if you ask me.
Anyway, the bottom line of my message still stands. There are many, many more ways to use that kind of energy in a way that actually makes a difference. Perhaps those that were "revolting" last night should choose one of them the next time instead of making their mark for something that is inherently pointless. - bightchee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1http://users.adelphia.net/~vulgar967/ljstuff/hddvdkey.jpg
- racerfan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Folks on Digg may be "bored" by the continued coverage, but the pick-up of this by the BBC, Forbes, etc. is HUGE for Digg and the other social networking sites. The traditional media doesn't react as quickly, so this "old" story, for folks on Digg, continues to pick up coverage in the mainstream outlets.
- kidtsunami, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Its just funny how technically redundant the article is for any digg fan.
Dugg down as lame.
- kidtsunami, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Its just funny how technically redundant the article is for any digg fan.
- das7282, on 10/12/2007, -11/+6I'm so sick of this issue that I'm burying any story that has to do with it as Lame.
- ericdano, on 10/12/2007, -12/+3Digg is becoming like a lame Slashdot.
- KarbonKopy, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6Digg > Slashdot anyday......
- Philluminati, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2their new tagging idea is a bust.
- soot, on 10/12/2007, -13/+1THIS ***** GONNA GO ALL THE WAY TO THE SUPREME COURT
AAAARRRGGGHHHHHHHH - jeebusmang, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Hey it was this business that brought me to Digg. Kudos to the people and (eventually) the management.
- MaximusPaynicus, on 10/12/2007, -8/+6So, you would all rather see Digg driven to bankruptcy and shut down because they decided to put their foot down and take care of those people who threatened it from a legal standpoint? By all means -- go jump into a volcano.
- salinemist, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4Shhhhh! If a private company tries to protect itself and it's product it's censorship don't ya know?
- sorryaboutcha, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Never even hear about this thread or this site till BBC news publicized it. Nor have I much interest at the moment in cracking HD encryption but maybe that'll change sometime.
Bottom line is greedy old industry have been asking for exactly this kind of revolution for years now and it predates all this DRM BullS**t. DVD continues to bug me. I bought a new Intel mac back in September which still uses that ridiculously dated region specific drive setup. As yet there appears to be no decent way flash the drive or make it region free - though I will try to examine if this can be done with an external drive I have. I live between 3 continents so the drive that ships with my Mac (or indeed any PC) does not serve my interests one bit in the form of a DVD player as my discs are from 3 different regions. The rest is not that easy to figure out - find way to flash drive or buy or download pirate discs.... Industry - listen to your customer base you morons. Enough is Enough. Customers say no o drugs if you want but definitely say no to DRM. It's another loaded gun for the mega greedy Corporate America. Stockholders buy stocks in things that might be of more use to you like Viagra or Prozac ;) but stop trying to play little Hitler on this call!
Who creates the pirates and the crackers in the first place - and what kind of 'bored' room decisions? I think DRM are only scratching at the flea on the tip of the iceberg right now - so what of corporate America gonna do? Sue or incarcerate the entire world? I thing the cost to the American Taxpayer might have a great part to play on the issue before the clock runs down
We've reached the one minute warning - Long live Corporate America Lol..... Viva la revolucion!- UrsusMorologus, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2"greedy old industry have been asking for exactly this kind of revolution"
uhh no, it was digg that had the revolution, while the "greedy old industry" got a major web site to use as case law
If digg does decide to actually fight this to the death (and does not stealth delete all references later), then digg will go away and the "greedy old industry" will have a nice example
napster ring any bells, moron? - legatus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Best thing anyone can do is forgo buying any hd content of any kind. That type of protest will get there attention. Letter to walmart about how you will not buy blueray or hd-dvd due to the restrictive and predatory practices of the companies holding the copyrights and the draconian language in the dmca. Why walmart? because when it gets letters from it's consumers that may forgo shopping for any reason you can bet they will apply pressure. "walmart"Say Sony we may have to cut back on our shelf space for this stuff it is ticking off our shoppers. That little letter would do more than all the Internet posts combined. Personally I have no desire to buy all the equipment to move into the hd world.
- mythandros, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@ UrsusMorologus
Say it with me: "fair use rights." Americans are guaranteed, by law, the right to make copies of media that they own. That's what this HD-DVD crack allows Americans to do. Napster was a service created specifically for copying and freely distributing copyrighted music to people that never paid for.
Explain to me again how these two things are the same? Or are you just stupid?
- UrsusMorologus, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2"greedy old industry have been asking for exactly this kind of revolution"
- rinocom, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2New Hex T-shirts... can't stop the HEX!!
http://www.cafepress.com/shavedrhino/2920973 - cimbo19, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10How do you win a war between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray? You leak the encryption code so the numerous users who "backup" movies are more prone to use the Technology. Nice move Toshiba.
- verstohlen, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Nice move indeed. People won't want to adopt a "defective by design" product that limits a person's use of it, especially if there is a competitor whose restrictions are removed. You listening Sony?
The tighter you try to grip and control your media, the more it will slip through your fingers. - t0ny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3In some ways your right. There has been times I backed up my dvds. I dont like carrying disks with me that are worth $20 and are very easy to steal. There also been times back when I was in high school I riped a dvd to a video file and played it on my palm pilot, I'm sure a lot of people with ipod videos did the same exact thing. I've even played ( and still do ) dvds in linux! And all of what I said are some sort of no no in the law. And you know what? I dont care! I'm not ripping anybody off. I'm not stealing. I'm just using my content any way I want. DRM will die. Users want freedom to do what they want with their content. DRM will break and when it does all your doing is pissing off your legit users. The pirates will get there way. The only people that will suffer is the legit users.
And lastly my mom rented 4 dvds, 3 of them where made by sony. Only one worked in her old dvd player. Can you guess what brand did not play?
/drm rant
- verstohlen, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Nice move indeed. People won't want to adopt a "defective by design" product that limits a person's use of it, especially if there is a competitor whose restrictions are removed. You listening Sony?
- eighties, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13"We hear you, and effective immediately we won't delete stories or comments containing the code and will deal with whatever the consequences might be. If we lose, then what the hell, at least we died trying."
These guys are willing to sacrifice a multi-million dollar business which has nearly redefined the way we define 'news aggregation', and is one of the most visited sites on the internet. Ok, so they tried to delete the stories and comments and banned users left and right for no reason. Big deal. You lost your account. These guys stand to lose a lot more.
Moreover, after listening to what everyone was saying and the comments posted, they decided to go with free speech over corporate compliance. I don't know what to say; I'm stunned and in awe at how far they are willing to go to uphold their values.- dracflamloc, on 10/12/2007, -8/+10Please... you actually believe Kevin wrote that or that the company intends to follow that? There are already reports of the censorship still going on.
- FearMEiDEA, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6What do any of you snot nosed punks care?
You're on here for FREE!
It's not YOUR business that could be destroyed. YOUR time. NO, it's theirs.
***** takers. You're all crying and snivling and pointing hollaring CENSORSHIP oh noz!
Too ***** bad man it's not your business you little freeloaders. - PdxPhoenix, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I just hope that Digg didn't shoot itself in the foot...or by their new decision to allow ILLEGAL content that they've not allowed the users to shoot Digg in the face (so to speak).
- mythandros, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5@fearmeidea
Business? Nope, not ours. The Community? Totally ours. The community has spoken. Digg listened. Digg didn't have to listen. Digg could have hard coded the string into a filter and auto-blocked any new stores that directly referenced "The Key." They could have just ignored their readership until we got tired of posting new stories. They didn't, however.
You're concern for Digg is nothing short of enlightened self-interested. YOU want to keep reading Digg and YOU are afraid that this bold move on Digg's part might end badly for Digg. Now, you're trying to make everyone feel bad for being "selfish" when, in fact, you're the one being selfish under the guise of altruism and deep concern for Digg's continued well being.
You know what? If you really respected Digg, you'd drop the overprotective parent act and support Digg's decision. After all, it's not your decision to get angry at. It's Diggs decision alone. You need to get over yourself and accept that you're not part of that decision making process. - MisterFlaut, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6"Big deal. You lost your account. These guys stand to lose a lot more."
Oh shut the ***** up.
It's about corruption. The ONLY reason they removed the codes is because it's their sponsor. Note: it is NOT illegal to post that number. In fact, even if it was, digg is NOT RESPONSIBLE for what its users post: period. The DMCA, the very law that the industry exploits, protects against this.
It's about rights, digital or not.
People are finally taking a stand in mass numbers against DRM and the industry and you're brushing it off like it's no big deal. Get the ***** out.
Plus I'm sick of the morons who say, "they're a private company, they can do whatever they want." Give me a break. By that logic, so can we. - MisterFlaut, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"or by their new decision to allow ILLEGAL"
...it's not illegal. Are you just repeating what you're reading, or do you actually know the law that enforces this?
I think you're missing the entire point of all this.
It's not illegal. If they tried to enforce it, they would fail. People tend to get intimidated by threats of lawsuits from big wigs. I say ***** bring it on, because they WILL lose.
It was removed because HDDVD sponsors digg. Period. - FearMEiDEA, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1@mythandros
If I really respected digg I'd do what?
So, the people last night 'revolting' and such, that was out of RESPECT for digg?
If they respected Digg, why did'nt they respect Digg's right to censor?
Hrm. - BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"""What do any of you snot nosed punks care?
You're on here for FREE!
It's not YOUR business that could be destroyed. YOUR time. NO, it's theirs.
***** takers. You're all crying and snivling and pointing hollaring CENSORSHIP oh noz!
Too ***** bad man it's not your business you little freeloaders."""
Look, I really think we should let it lie, but how are you on a high horse about other people?
You're the one here ranting on the sidelines, swearing and ranting at a community whilst being happy to read their posts, the articles they submit and use the site their advertising-target asses pay for.
There are many thousands more of those "freeloaders" here than you, providing much more written content and generating much more revenue than you.
If you want to be at odds with all those people, how about you go and we stay, as a little experiment, just so we can see who's the taker and the freeloader.
- pds6, on 10/12/2007, -12/+1I stopped doing Digg a while ago. No more website and no Podcasts.
Looks like I was right.
Dig has jumped the shark.
Bye....................- t0ny, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11If you stopped using digg then why are you still here?
- alrahman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1http://www.forbes.com/video/?video=fvn/topstory/df_ts050207_ms
Forbes Discussion. - tokyomonster, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1***** me
- jmaresca, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9"Digg Punched me in the Face for Posting This."
screenshots or it didnt happen - sorryaboutcha, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1so what about freedom of speech - and more importantly freedom to hear it. What gives some overweight coke-sniffing middle-aged ***** in a recliner the right to censor that right by making it mandatory to go out and buy a new player and new decoder to hear the ***** in the first place! Kind of takes the free 0ut or the freedom part of the equation don't you think!
- phishinphree, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Did anyone notice that Forbes showed the key in a screen shot of the digg site?
This is how we fight back against big media. The RIAA and MPAA have the money to squash any one of us individually but they sure as hell don't have the funds to sue every one of the hundreds of thousands of sites this key has been posted to. - LiVE, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I bet you anything it wasn't KR's decision to pull those stories. He's the one getting most the blame though. I think it's bs that some people reacted like that. If you want to kill the site, quit coming to it. It's news worthy that the encryption was cracked, but giving the link out freely is not what this site's about. NBC news reports on the death toll in Iraq, flame them for not showing every single murder on air.
- Lothar2007, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4I think the one thing that everyone is forgetting is that now that the code has been released, it will be revoked, and replaced. It's part of the DRM that was built into every player, including Vista. All it takes is Sony to send a revoke order, and your HD-DVD's won't work untill you update your codes (something that will be done automatically when you put a new DVD in your player, or as part of a software patch).
Now, on to the discussion about the censorship of Digg. Kevin Rose and the digg staff have an obligation to the company, as well as to the users. If you have read the TOS, then your already aware of the User Conduct section. If not, then I invite you to read it, to refresh your memory. Section 2 states: to contribute any Content that is infringing, libelous, defamatory, obscene, pornographic, abusive, offensive or otherwise violates any law or right of any third party;
The posting of the code is covered by this clause. Posting the code is, in fact, an attempt to violate the rights of a third party, and a violation of the DMCA (like it or not, it is the law of the land). Under the DMCA, it is against the law to try to circumvent copyright, which this code allows you to do.
The First Amendment is not applicible here, as Digg is a private site, and not an arm of the US government. The First Amendment is also not absolute, nor does it give the right to be heard, only allows you to say anything you wish. However, you also have to live with the consiquences of your speech.
And I'm sure that I'm going to be dugg down, and you probably won't even read this whole thing.- DooM, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3I read the whole thing - and yeah, I dug you down, too. It's not about the constitution or whether they have a 'right' to do whatever they want on their site or whether the code is legal or illegal. It's about the integrity of the company and this site - it's about burying stories even TALKING about whether censoring the code stories makes Digg/Rev3 lose credibility in the community.
You make good points - if they were relevant to the situation I'd dig you up.
- DooM, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3I read the whole thing - and yeah, I dug you down, too. It's not about the constitution or whether they have a 'right' to do whatever they want on their site or whether the code is legal or illegal. It's about the integrity of the company and this site - it's about burying stories even TALKING about whether censoring the code stories makes Digg/Rev3 lose credibility in the community.
- klpowell, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6I hate to say it but its only censorship if the government is doing it. You have no right to free speech on private property as you have to obey the rules of the property owner. Now i'm not saying I agree with digg. Banning accounts was totally out of line and if they would have simply posted "Please don't post those numbers we are receiving Cease and Desist orders" it would have all been different.
- jarinudom, on 03/31/2008, -4/+3They did post that. It didn't stop the nerd rage.
- FearMEiDEA, on 10/12/2007, -7/+7GRATS, so since you guys are pissed that Digg actually had to censor something, something illegal (DUH)... you're willing to let it go down in a ball of flames, and be gone for good.
***** nutmunchers.- Caffeinate, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Dugg down because you totally missed the point. It wasn't illegal - they attempted to strongarm everyone in the name of the RIAA/MPAA because they had gotten advertising dollars from them.
Name calling is neither adult nor polite, and it certainly doesn't make you sound anymore intelligent.
- Caffeinate, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Dugg down because you totally missed the point. It wasn't illegal - they attempted to strongarm everyone in the name of the RIAA/MPAA because they had gotten advertising dollars from them.
- conspinut, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1You tube and digg has been caught doing this time and time again.
There is a video on youtube about bbc and wtc having more coments and more views to put it in the honours page yet its been censored.
Digg is just so bad that even professional disinformants can censor it. - orblivion, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Kevin's blog entry has the code. Forbes linked to it, so now Forbes is complicit!
- sorryaboutcha, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1@UrsusMorologus
ever sit back and think for a minute 'bout who you are calling a moron... Ever lived in a climate infested with mosquitoes? On;y so much swatting you can do before you gotta learn to live with it. Maybe you ain't been round long enough to witness true people power..... guess you'll choke on it before the fat coke-heads do... or maybe you're one of them! ;) - Slippy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@ sorryaboutcha
wtf are you on???
can i have some? - Caffeinate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The problem is the organizations that abuse the DCMA - namely the MPAA and the RIAA. They throw away millions in lawsuits and strong arm tactics, and then expect to be heard when they cry about how much money they are losing to piracy?
Fire a couple of the lawyers, stop lobbying for greater restrictions and end the attempts to push DRM onto everything except taking a breath. That will save untold millions right there. Not to mention that some people might actually stop trying so hard to circumvent protection on what they purchased legally.
If you *haven't* tried to buy music or a movie over the internet lately and had some screwed up error with it, raise your hand. The pirates are NOT the problem - it's the paying customers that are pissed off about DRM. - xspinkickx, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5I think the people crying about, that digg users are immature, or twelve year old kids, I think are missing a huge point, and that point is that if a string of 16(or 32 however you wanna look at it) hex numbers can be censored, whats next?? Will the MPAA then start threatening digg if users post criticism of MPAA tactics??
/runs off to the patent office to patent the exclamation mark
/sues anyone using the exclamation mark, its my intellectual property now- mdollarsign, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2!!!!!!!OH NO YOU DON"T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- mdollarsign, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2!!!!!!!OH NO YOU DON"T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- filipov, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Remember remember the May First rebellion
Digg the number and revolt.
I see no reason why the number this season
Should ever be forgot...- Mo0man, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1ever heard of rhythm and meter? cause it's an important part of any poem
- digguser12345, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0michelle steele is hot.a bit old but still hot. click on the green thumbs up button if you'd hit that.
- Beatmiser, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4You know, I've honestly realized that this site is now the butt end joke of the internet and it's the users that made it so. I was just dugg down in another thread for suggesting quite rationally that people not make statements about wanting to kill the president as it will land the Secret Service on their door and was dugg down. Digg is now the Myspace of news aggregate sites. You all can keep it. Any single one of you who thinks that yesterday was anything but a tantrum needs to go think about the ASCII, all the pure spam, the idiots who made cafepress shirts to cash in. And you tell me again about your noble civil revolt.
- Caffeinate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If you lump every single person on the site as a stark raving idiot, what are you doing here? Yes, there are people on this site that are crazy and get worked up over things that make no sense. There are also rational people on the site.
I got dug down for pointing out that name calling isn't adult or polite, or perhaps because I disagreed with someone else. - raid517, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1....
- Caffeinate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If you lump every single person on the site as a stark raving idiot, what are you doing here? Yes, there are people on this site that are crazy and get worked up over things that make no sense. There are also rational people on the site.
- raid517, on 10/12/2007, -10/+8Here is another key. This key is for Windows Vista Ultimate:
YFKCB-PQRJV-G896G-VWJXY-2V3X9
Hey I know it's questionable to print it here, but why not? I mean all of the same arguments over the HDDVD Hex number can be made for this number too.
If Kevin decides to delete/ban my account then I can throw a tantrum too and complain and moan that my freedom of speech is being impinged 'and how can anyone possibly own a number?' etc.
So why not just print all product keys here and all possibly copyrighted material - and to hell with the consequences of that too? Why is the above key, or any other key or piece of copyrighted code any different from the HDDVD hex code? Why make exceptions for a single case?
I agree that Kevin and Co. probably went too far. I mean deleting and banning accounts purely based on stories hosted on other sites where the submitter of the story to digg may not have mentioned the key directly and then banning users for complaining, or for criticising Digg, or the Digg leadership was just plumb dumb. All that may have been needed was a small piece of code that prevented stories that mentioned the key within the body of the submitted story from being submitted, or which automatically deleted such stories.
But in any case the whole thing was very childish. Now things really have changed. The Digg readership have realised just exactly how much power they have. It's a bit like Britain in the 1970's when the Trade Unions were all powerful. (You have to know your history a little to follow this reasoning). At that time the socialist ideal was still very much alive. 'Power to the people' was the common cry from many ordinary citizens. But ultimately as always happens when you give ordinary people too much power, the most ignorant, the most uneducated, the most brash, the most aggressive and the most brutal elements of that society push their way to the fore - and all pretence at decency and nobility are eventually lost. In Britain this meant that some very uneducated and unqualified sorts ended up dictating to the government of the day exactly what way they felt the country should be run - and in many instances the government had no option but to comply. Ultimately this resulted in chaos, with hyper inflation, a breakdown in public services, absurd levels of Trade Union militancy, such as strikes for the most trivial of reasons, such as a shortage of sugar on one specific day for the usage of workers in their coffee or tea, or because a worker might be asked to do a job in one part of the factory which was exclusively reserved for members of another Union (there are many more much more absurd examples than this, but this is just a couple I recall off the top of my head).
Well anyway, the point is that when you give ordinary people ultimate power and complete freedom, the end result is almost always mob rule. This may result in violent turmoil and even revolution - and could even make the leadership of a country, or a company, or even a web site, such as Digg appear weak, ineffective and foolish.
Don't get me wrong, Digg was (and I deliberately use 'was' in the past tense) a noble idea. A democracy of the people, governed entirely by the people, where no one person or group carried greater weight or importance than any other. Stories and viewpoints and issues of importance and relevance to our day, could be promoted to a level platform on which everyone could participate. Those opinions that were irrelevant and which didn't matter could be filtered by the community, so that only the smartest, most informed, the most thoughtful and most considered opinions would survive the scrutiny and critique of other diggers.
It was an ideal of democracy hewn straight from the text books and customs of the ancient Greeks.
However like all political ideas (since the principal if not the practice was political in origin), ultimately when taken to an extreme, it is undoubtedly likely to prove unsuccessful. It is a philosophy that contains one basic flaw - which is that specifically it assumes that all people are almost always fundamentally decent and good - and that given the opportunity they are sensible enough and intelligent enough to govern themselves. Sadly, it seems that history has shown that this is not the case.
Digg was/is an exercise in unrestrained democracy, and like all such exercises in unrestrained democracy (or any similar political ideal, such as unrestrained communism, or fascism or whatever) eventually if left unchecked, it is likely only to eventually descend into a state of anarchy and chaos.
I cannot say what the original creator's of Digg true intentions were - but I can guess that they really were very honorable. But I would certainly be surprised if they were not in some way at least a little disappointed at what it has become.
Having said all of this I don't want to sound like an MPAA or DCMA stooge. This really was just a childish tantrum thrown by a number of extremely immature digg users. Simply because it was a single instance of one particular piece of code appears to prove this.
But the OSS sympathiser in me sees how this could be made into a genuine revolution - an Internet wide and global revolt against proprietary code, DRM, the DCMA, the RIAA and all of the modern corporate evils that so many of us commonly appear to despise. If all your code genuinely is 'belong to us' then lets make it that way. Lets post product keys and copyrighted content, and illegal primes (such as the HDDVD code) everywhere and anywhere we have an opportunity. Let's open blogs, post to forums, discussion groups, email our friends and associates all our keys and links to our copyrighted content - and if that fails, write the codes and links to content as graffiti on walls, in public restrooms, on trains and buses, on T-shirts and coffee mugs etc
The result would be genuine mass scale chaos - but it would almost undoubtedly make proprietary software and content vendors and their representatives (the the RIAA, the MPAA etc) sit up and take notice and perhaps finally force them to admit that the public have rejected DRM, and restrictive software licencing terms.
They can hardly under such a scenario issue a take down notice for the entire Internet - and even if they could, what is to stop people from printing or sharing this information in other ways?
I do think that this was a small childish spat over nothing - but I also think that it might provide a good model for a larger and more profound revolution. However as Digg has shown, I don't think that this can be done without some form of coherant determined and skilled leadership either.- hominidx, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Welcome to hours ago.
- UrsusMorologus, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2Since you all for free exchange, how 'bout posting your company's customer list and employee salaries?
Or are you only brave when there's no consequence to you? - Caffeinate, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3raid517 - though you made some good points, you forget why some of us won't install Vista. It's absolutely infested with DRM. Why do you think anything that touches the kernel in a way that plays HDCP still has poor drivers or poor support on Vista? It doesn't take a Ph. D in Computer Science to figure that out.
Keep the key to Vista. I guess I'll be running XP until I can get no updates for it. Thankfully Debian does most of the things I need to do. - mythandros, on 10/12/2007, -3/+71) Operating system != shoddy encryption to cirucmvent Fair Use
2) Compare rates of literacy and education for your average 1970s British factory worker with the literacy rate and education level of your average Digg user. Now tell me which "mob" is going to behave more intelligently.
3) Digg isn't a democracy. Ultimate power lies in the hands of an elite few. By definition, if we're going to get political here, Digg is closer to an aristocracy. An aristocracy can choose to not exercise its veto power and still remain an aristocracy. Never forget that.
4) This wasn't a temper tantrum by a small number of digg users. This is 16,000+ digg users upset that Digg wouldn't even accept a link to a story that mentioned that the HD-DVD key had been cracked. Let me repeat that. Digg refused to link to stories that did not contain any trade secrets whatsoever. That sounds like abuse of power to me. - raid517, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3This is why I hate the digg comment system. The 12 year old kids who rule the roost here don't have an attention span any more than a few seconds long - and so find it impossible to read any detailed or slightly longer commentary that requires a little more effort than this.
It simply isn't possible anymore to have an intelligent discussion on Digg.
If Digg wants to survive and to be reputable, it needs to stick to some core topics, like technology science, funny videos (OK so I like to laugh now and then too) current events and politics - all of those topics indeed that the very young here are likely to find boring and uninteresting.
Just having a free for all where anything goes, simply attracts entirely the wrong kind of membership. - raid517, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Anyway it seems you missed the point. This wasn't about Vista Vs XP. It was about what is and is not considered acceptable and whether or not DRM or proprietary code in general can ever be considered a legitimate way to do business or not?
If it wasn't about that, then yes I do think that this really was probably just a childish tantrum by a large number of (very young and immature) Digg users.
I think you also probably very much overestimate the intelligence and educational standard of the average Digg user. I'm certain that it was different in the past - at the beginning - when the site was largely and almost exclusively technology focused. But the opening up of Digg has brought in many new people - and many of them really do appear to be very young and entirely incapable of engaging in reasonable, rational debate.
As for Digg is a democracy or not, well let's just say that in his magnanimity, Kevin appears to have wanted it to be that way, even if ultimately it was him who owned the site and he who paid all the bills.
You want this to be about something more than just some young folks smarting that they got chastised? Then fair enough I gave you a way to do this. Make piracy and the printing and distribution of copyrighted code and content of all kind, a genuine political mission. If this really is about your conviction for free speech, then show everyone that you really mean it. Otherwise it really is all just a big and completely pointless cop out - and you all may have sunk Digg completely for what utimately is no really very good reason at all. - raid517, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1What the hell is wrong with you people? Rather than simply reaching for the +/- button, why not actually say why you disagree?
I have my own theory about this - and that's that most Digg commentators really are just kids and they don't have an opinion worth a damn that anyone wants to listen to anyway.
Feel free to prove me wrong if you can. - BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"""This is why I hate the digg comment system. The 12 year old kids who rule the roost here don't have an attention span any more than a few seconds long - and so find it impossible to read any detailed or slightly longer commentary that requires a little more effort than this.
It simply isn't possible anymore to have an intelligent discussion on Digg."""
Yeah, the problem with that, is that you've missed the point entirely on every conceivable level, then remonstrated with everyone else for being an idiot who doesn't pay attention.
Congratulations, you're bitterly ironic. - raid517, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1OK then correct me. You think I'm wrong then say why.
That is hardly any kind of an answer is it?
It is just a simple slight, a sideways swipe with zero actual content.
What's the matter? Cat got your tongue?
It isn't just me who has largely given up on the Digg comment system (which is also at the heart of this supposed revolt). A large number of intelligent contributors (not that I'm claiming to be one of them - but there we are) have been driven away by this same Digg idiocy and mob mentality.
Why doesn't anyone of any note post here as they do in other prominent social networking sites? Why are there so few women (or at least so few willing to identify themselves as women)? Why are there so few topic concerning sexuality where commentators respond in a mature way? Why is it OK for sexism, racism, xenophobia and homophobia to exist so openly on Digg?
Many posters quickly get the message that if you are not young, not white, not male and not a misogynistic pig, then you're not welcome here on Digg. - BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"""OK then correct me. You think I'm wrong then say why.
That is hardly any kind of an answer is it?"""
Funnily enough, you acting like a condescending little ***** isn't instilling a great will to spend my time and effort on you. Imagine that.
"""It is just a simple slight, a sideways swipe with zero actual content.
What's the matter? Cat got your tongue?"""
Actually, I made a long, almost essay-like post at the time laying every point out in a civilised manner, then looked again at your unpleasant ranting about how every digger is beneath you, thought "actually no", and deleted it, genuinely sorry I spent time on treating you as an equal.
You think you're automatically "entitled" to intelligent consideration from people after you speak to them like animals? That's odd.
"""It isn't just me who has largely given up on the Digg comment system (which is also at the heart of this supposed revolt). A large number of intelligent contributors (not that I'm claiming to be one of them - but there we are) have been driven away by this same Digg idiocy and mob mentality.
...
Why is it OK for sexism, racism, xenophobia and homophobia to exist so openly on Digg?
Many posters quickly get the message that if you are not young, not white, not male and not a misogynistic pig, then you're not welcome here on Digg."""
Actually, you NO way of knowing how many people on this site are male, or white, you monstrously prejudiced, presumptuous person.
Thanks for racially profiling us all, assuming we're all male, and assuming our inferior intellect. - you've truly taught the whole of Digg the meaning of enlightenment.
I for one am humbled by your lack of sexism, racism and prejudice. - raid517, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Again that is just the same kind of mean mouthed competitive viciousness - which again says exactly nothing about the topic at hand, or any of the issues it raises (which I have at least made genuine efforts to go into in some detail) which makes Digg such an unpleasant place to discuss anything.
You clearly think that simple outright personal insults are the only valid way to score points in this kind of debate. It is this kind of empty headed, hateful, spite ridden and bitter reply that makes me and others think that too many people have nothing very valid to contribute to the Digg community - and that it really is just a big juvenile schoolyard where only those who can shout the loudest, only the true bully's, the undesirables, those who's lives are so bitter and empty that they can only make themselves feel better by making others feel worse than they do who make the so called Digg community what it has (regrettably) become.
This is the mob my friend - and any pretence at anything more substantial or noble than this is simply laughable.
Anyway to cut things short I think we can have a fairly mutual sentiment in this regard, which is '***** you pal!'
You are ***** weird anyway - as an OSS fan when someone puts up a good argument for how the cause of OSS could be furthered, how DRM, the RIAA, the MPAA might all be defeated, how something like this could be made into something much more meaningful, rather than some pointless spat over a few kids getting banned for posting copyrighted content (something that will be forgotten about in no more than a few days) you have a fit and take exception to it?
Go figure - because I sure as hell can't work it out.
- BunnieLebowski, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I love how this forbes guy assumes everyone on here is a man between 20-30 years old
- MisterFlaut, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Everyone knows there are no girls on the internets.
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I've heard there may be one or two women on Digg, heh.
- DRFighter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'm a girl :)
- afosterw, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2My profile gif is an image representation of a zero padded key. Fire up and gif editor and sample each color and Bobs your uncle. Thought it might be a fun easy way to pass the key around legally.
- tiraid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I just thought you were advertising the rainbow coalition. Bobs your uncle, and you are his niece.
- tiraid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I like how both sides are calling each other whiners; but, can't we go back to calling each other Nazis?
- michaelbolton, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1well i went ahead and made a hex bumper sticker over at cafe press. I'm going to put these all over Austin.
http://www.cafepress.com/jasonium - MisterFlaut, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3LOL @ all the ***** retards who think this key is illegal.
Here's a challenge for you: prove it. Since you're all now "expert lawyers" (read: people who just regurgitate what they read and THINK to be true), procure the law that states it's illegal.
We'll be waiting... (hint: posting a key without the utility to decrypt the content is not illegal)
Not to mention even if it were a grey area in the DMCA about doing this, the key falls under fair use. I have the right to back up an HDDVD that I own. Considering that, also state how you think it remains illegal.- Gutterpunk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Because you are an "expert lawyer"?
I'm not saying that the kay is illegal, I'm saying that your LOLing arguments is weak.
- Gutterpunk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Because you are an "expert lawyer"?
-
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