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Watch Out! They Will Be Watching What You Do On The Web

bits.blogs.nytimes.com — Charter Communications, the fourth-largest cable system in the United States, has started telling its high-speed Internet customers that it is going to keep track of every site they visit on the Web.

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  • JaneQCitizen, on 05/15/2008, -2/+131What *****.

    They should at least allow you opt in for a reduced cable fee or something.
    • elcob32, on 05/15/2008, -1/+45At least they let you opt out. I do agree that you should get a reduced rate, they are supplementing the companies income, and the customer should see some of the benefit.
      • cdahlkvist, on 05/15/2008, -2/+25"I suggested that most privacy experts prefer opt-in systems where information isn’t collected until the user explicitly grants permission. He said that opt-out has become the norm for all targeting on the Internet."

        Teens wearing pants that hang down to their knees has become the norm too. That doesn't mean it's right. It should still be a crime.
        • Tenoq, on 05/15/2008, -27/+9See, I was going to make a smart-ass remark about gun-toting US citizens with their right to bear arms (and how that's illegal here...) but then I realised that I'd get dugg down to buggery for my anti-American sentiment. So instead I'll settle for being dugg down for posting some random diatribe regarding plankton.
          Plankton are ugly.
          • camg188, on 05/15/2008, -1/+2Let's hear your dumb-ass remark. Go ahead. Make my day.
            /not sarcastic
        • moulin1, on 05/15/2008, -2/+23Dugg down for insulting plankton.
          • thumperings, on 05/15/2008, -2/+11Save the plankton! Harpoon a Humpback.
      • jaxzin, on 05/15/2008, -0/+31The opt-out page is cookie-based and requires you to submit the form from each computer/login/browser combo that you use. But that doesn't account for other web access I do, such as from my Xbox 360, Wii, TiVo and apps on my computer like Dashboard, etc... Here's the live chat I just had with a rep:

        A representative will be with you shortly.
        You have been connected to TTD McRaven .
        TTD McRaven : Hi, my name is McRaven. Thank you for contacting Charter Internet support. How may I assist you today?
        Brian Jackson: hello?
        Brian Jackson: hi
        Brian Jackson: i just read this article about the new tracking you've put in place: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/charter-w ...
        Brian Jackson: I want to opt-out permanently for my entire household
        TTD McRaven : Yes.
        TTD McRaven : NebuAd does not collect and use personally identifiable information to deliver advertising. Customers will not see more ads - just ads that are more relevant to their interests that have been expressed through their web-surfing activity.

        NebuAd and Charter are committed to the highest standards of consumer privacy. As always, Charter continues to be committed to ensure the privacy and protection of all customer data. All Charter customer information will continue to remain confidential for their protection and privacy.

        If customers wish to opt out, they can only do so using the online opt out request located at www.charter.com/onlineprivacy.
        Brian Jackson: the opt out page requires me to use it from each browser on each computer in my household
        Brian Jackson: but this doesn't account for non-browser web access such as Software Update or Dashboard widgets
        Brian Jackson: I want a better solution
        TTD McRaven : I really want to help you with your concern but unfortunately Charter High-Speed Internet Technical Support Staff focuses our support towards the connectivity between a cable modem and a personal computer. We also support mail server settings related to that connectivity. Please call our Value added services(VAS) or tier 2 support team at 1-888-438-2427 for further assistance. Thank you.
        Brian Jackson: nor does it account for web access from consumer electronic items like my Xbox 360 or TiVo
        Brian Jackson: thank you
        TTD McRaven : You're welcome. Have a nice day, Brian.
        TTD McRaven : Thank you for choosing Charter Communications. Answers to frequently asked questions and self-help options can be found by looking in the "Customer Help" menu at www.charter.com. If you have further questions, please chat with us again. Our chat support is available from 7 AM through 1:30 AM central time, 365 days a year. Have yourself a nice and blessed day!
        • gurudrew, on 05/15/2008, -1/+16so does that mean that you would have to opt out again every time you clear your cookies?
          • darkspire, on 05/15/2008, -0/+19that's exactly what it means, they say it right in their opt out page.
            https://connect.charter.com/cas/portal/settings/pr ...
            I just got off the phone with them, and the person I spoke with said complaints have been rolling in all morning. I also let them know that I would be canceling my service at the first opportunity.
          • jaxzin, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2darkspire, what number did you call? I've tried talking to people in the Internet Tech Support department at 888-438-2427 and they are all clueless. After 4 tries, someone directed me to the Internet Security department at 866-229-7289 and the guy there was just as clueless.
        • 11oops, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2McLovin?
      • Carthagefield, on 05/15/2008, -0/+7Actually, if it's anything like the 'Webwise' service due to be rolled out in the UK this summer (it's sounds identical), then the "opt-out" scheme only prevents the ads from being sent to your browser. Every web page you visit is STILL monitored. How ***** is that?
    • synthoid, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3I've heard of 'peeping toms' but this is wildly wacky!
    • kcapxis, on 05/15/2008, -1/+8Opt-in? Yeah, right. Here are the problems with this:

      1. The opt out does not actually get you out of the system. First they do deep packet inspection of your browsing, then they sell the data to a third party, then the third party delivers ads based on your browsing. If you opt out, all you get is a cookie which stops the ads from being displayed. You still have your data mined, and it's still sold to the third party. This is 100%, no questions asked, absolutely, obviously, and unquestionably illegal.

      2. It's criminal on several levels. The Cable TV Privacy Act of 1984 is the law Charter must design its programs to adhere to. This program violates a number of provisions int his law, including:

      2a. Section 551(b)(1) Collection of personally identifiable information using cable system: Except as provided in paragraph (2), a cable operator shall not use the cable system to collect personally identifiable information concerning any subscriber without the prior written or electronic consent of the subscriber concerned. [flagrant violation, not a single one of us consented to this]

      2b. Section 551(c)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), a cable operator shall not disclose personally identifiable information concerning any subscriber without the prior written or electronic consent of the subscriber concerned and shall take such actions as are necessary to prevent unauthorized access to such information by a person other than the subscriber or cable operator. [again, an absolute violation, and without prior consent]

      2c. Section 551(c)(1)(C)(i) a disclosure of the names and addresses of subscribers to any cable service or other service, if -the cable operator has provided the subscriber the opportunity to prohibit or limit such disclosure [ they are required by law to offer an opt-out. The current opt-out does not meet the mandatory requirements]

      2d. Section 551(d)(1) Subscriber access to information: A cable subscriber shall be provided access to all personally identifiable information regarding that subscriber which is collected and maintained by a cable operator. Such information shall be made available to the subscriber at reasonable times and at a convenient place designated by such cable operator. A cable subscriber shall be provided reasonable opportunity to correct any error in such information. [try to call Charter and get copies of all of your deep-packet inspected data. They are, after all, required by law to provide it to you]

      3. Here's where this will end up: Section 551(f) Civil action in United States district court; damages; attorney's fees and costs; nonexclusive nature of remedy (1) Any person aggrieved by any act of a cable operator in violation of this section may bring a civil action in a United States district court. (2) The court may award - (A) actual damages but not less than liquidated damages computed at the rate of $100 a day for each day of violation or $1,000, whichever is higher; (B) punitive damages; and (C) reasonable attorneys' fees and other litigation costs reasonably incurred.

      $100 per person, per day. If you're a Charter customer call 1-888-438-2427 and ask for your personal information as described in 2d above, and also ask to be opted out pursuant to Section 551(c)(1)(C)(i) of the Cable TV Privacy Act of 1984. Make them notate your account that you asked for it today. When this is said and done, you get $100 per day retroactive to the day you asked for that information when the courts shut this program down.

      Charter customers need to absolutely shut down the support lines for the next few days over this. Hopefully you now have enough ammo to do just that.
    • Slayer166, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3oh yeah what do they call it...wiretapping...yeah
  • EllieElliott, on 05/15/2008, -11/+266at least they're admitting it.
    • uptown, on 05/15/2008, -1/+32Yeah, wonder how long they were doing it before their lawyers said they could get sued if they didn't admit it.
    • nxtwrld, on 05/15/2008, -0/+10how right - almost all providers do it, they just keep quiet about it....
      • skeeterbug84, on 05/15/2008, -0/+4There was an article several months ago where a reported contacted major ISP's and asked about their privacy policies (how long they keep logs, etc). Several wouldn't even comment. COX Communications was very open, and if I remember right, they don't log which sites you visit, and the history of customer IP addresses is only kept for a month. So I would say no, not all ISP's are doing this sort of thing.
    • miketrin, on 05/15/2008, -2/+11and they attack us for our freedoms.
      • saisumimen, on 05/15/2008, -2/+4freedom to get raped by corporations!
    • itsfullofstars, on 05/15/2008, -1/+9Watch Out! They Will Be Watching What You Do On The Web

      They "will"??? THEY ARE.
    • praisethelard, on 06/06/2008, -1/+7That's the scary thing. It's gotten to the point where they are comfortable admitting it.
      • mkay2008, on 05/15/2008, -1/+3Agreed. What is also scary is the public in general is getting to the point they are comfortable in accepting it. How far do we let this go?
    • mCanada, on 05/15/2008, -1/+6Those who sacrifice privacy for cheap internet deserve neither - "me - paraphrased for a new generation"
    • nuggetz, on 05/15/2008, -1/+1Oh yeah? ***** that!
  • bjornski, on 05/15/2008, -61/+30Ron Paul supports a company being able to do whatever they want with their data!

    Go free market!
    • Scrappy1850, on 05/15/2008, -11/+36he also supports the consumer who chooses not to buy from said company. Go free market!
      • TimDigg, on 05/15/2008, -5/+18once they are all doing it....

        or at least the ones in your area...what do you do then?

        tether your blackberry?


        oh wait thats right I'll start my own multibillion dollar telecom company....
        • noahhoward, on 05/15/2008, -4/+4Are you saying if you had to chose between the telecoms monitoring your every move like a criminal and going without your blackberry you'd chose the rape?
        • OpaqueMurdock, on 05/15/2008, -1/+9@noahhoward
          You say that like you believe they haven't been monitoring us all along...

          Personally I work under the assumption that service providers have always collected data... why would you trust a corporation to do anything less? Most will do just about anything this side of killing you to make money. A few don't even have a problem with that.
        • Tenoq, on 05/15/2008, -0/+7TimDigg is right - there's no 'free market' forces on infrastructure. It's not economically feasible to compete.
          • PeppermintPig, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2Actually, that's not completely accurate. Free market forces can and do effect consolidated, monopoly privilege infrastructure. When someone devises a method of competing which works around the monopoly controlled resource, it makes it harder for those controlling the infrastructure to justify ripping people off.

            Of course, by the time a competitor springs forth, you have groups like the FCC passing new laws to outlaw/regulate it.
      • OpaqueMurdock, on 05/15/2008, -0/+7My fear has always been that you won't know what they do with the information and that if ownership of the company changes they won't feel obligated to inform you that the way you information is handled has also changed. It has be proven to me many times that most companies obscure these practices, or at least make it very inconvenient to understand just how the collected data is being used.

        A free market is generally a good thing, but profit should never supersede an individuals rights in my opinion.
      • ProfessorFoo, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Where I live Charter is being forced to have a monopoly (the city isn't going to rewire everything just to give them some competition) so no I don't really have a choice other than them. It should also be mentioned they suck ass. Every night my internet slows to a crawl.
    • Frappman, on 05/15/2008, -9/+16Watch out! You technically bashed Ron Paul on the internets!
    • olenick, on 05/15/2008, -6/+7I'm sure that Charter reduces certain homeowners property values by stringing cables around their neighborhood to support their business. Does Ron Paul think the homeowner has the right to make Charter re-route the cables? Or will the homeowner be forced to subsidize the cable business with a forcefully reduced home value "for the common good?" If Charter is going to be forced to re-route the cables is there any problem forcing the Charter subscribers who live in the re-routed area to pay more than other Charter members? If they can't re-route is it acceptable to just not have a cable option for certain homes? Can the one neighbor who doesn't accept the cables force their neighbors to pay more with the payments sending to the nag neighbor? Why wouldn't all people do this? Grow up kids: the real world's a complicated place.
  • pentm450, on 05/15/2008, -25/+7Like was said already, at least they are being upfront about it.
    • sh04, on 05/15/2008, -3/+21So if I sent you a letter saying I was going to rob your house and sell your stuff to your neighbors, it's okay because I was upfront about it, right?

      *has Charter, is annoyed*
      • griz, on 05/15/2008, -7/+4Sorry, bad analogy. One is legal, one is not. No matter how much you dislike it.
        • sh04, on 05/15/2008, -0/+11Um, see, the thing with an analogy is..........it's meant to compare ideas or actions that are SIMILAR in several ways, not exactly the same. If it weren't, what would be the point of analogies in the first place?
  • chanop, on 05/15/2008, -3/+168They would see a ***** load of porn going into my computer
    • korvan504521, on 05/15/2008, -1/+8Yeah, this is pretty ludicrous. It's not like your cell phone, the number of different sites most people visit in a day of websurfing. . .could get really really large. Thats a lot of data to track. Gunna be expensive and a waste of money for charter.
      • halleyscomet, on 05/15/2008, -1/+22They already collect that data and send it to the NSA. They;ll just need to strip the account data and e-mail contents form the feed going to the ad agency.
        • MURDERTRON, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1In at least some cases, the NSA collects the data from their office floors in the telecommunications buildings.
    • homercles337, on 05/15/2008, -0/+7I would just write a script to randomly crawl the web all day while at work. A Brownian walk should do it. Just by chance that means that 80% of my random crawl would find porn. ;)
    • Rosh37, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1i'll make a bot spamming http://lolfish.biz over and over. Hopefully the people at Charter will have to go to the there, that'll teach 'em to filter my ads!

      Consequently, this plan could backfire...
      • DrummerAndrew, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2Do not click that link. Oh holy hell. (Helly hole?)
    • siszam, on 05/15/2008, -6/+1How pathetic. You can get help to overcome your addiction and get a real girl.
      • maddla, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3Yup Pills and Doctors are the best ways to overcome watching porn.

        /sarcasm
      • KnuckleZ, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2Like you don't watch porn lol.
    • caramba420, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2There's nothing pathetic about porn at all. Maybe not everyone wants to go out and get laid every single weekend. It's time consuming and expensive. Sometimes I'd rather just stay home and jerk off. That doesn't mean I'm repulsive to women, or some kind of social pariah.
  • filolif, on 05/15/2008, -0/+192I'm a charter customer and seriously, ***** them. They have the most god awful service ever. And there is no other option around here.
    • DteK, on 05/15/2008, -6/+4you must live somewhere in MA
      • halleyscomet, on 05/15/2008, -1/+4Don't be silly. RCN and Comcast have most of MA tied up.
        • redfred18t, on 05/15/2008, -1/+2Down here in Chicopee, the only option is Charter.

          Well that or DSL but yeah, I dont think so.
        • DteK, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2there are pockets that only charter can service, marlboro was in a couple of years ago although I think verizon has moved in there now
        • 11oops, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2Around here (WI) many residents aren't served by DSL because they are more than 5 miles away from the phone company's switching facilities and therefore only have the option of dial-up or Charter. I sure feel sorry for them...
        • subliminalurge, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Don't feel so bad about no option for DSL. Around here it's about $10 a month more than cable, and less than a quarter the speed.
    • rex84, on 05/15/2008, -0/+20I used to have Charter, and it does suck, but now I have Cox; they REALLY suck. (no pun intended)
      • iambagels, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1My parents have extended cable and 800Kbit internet with Charter, I have extended cable and 20Mbit* with Cox and we're paying the same thing.

        *20Mbit drops to 1.5Mb when downloading multiple podcasts, linux distros, or BitTorrent'ing
        • ZigVicious, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1so you have 20Mbit, but when you actually use it, you have 1.5Mbit. That's wonderful.
    • XtremeBug, on 05/15/2008, -8/+5Curious as to what your location is. Here in Madison, WI, Charter is by far the best ISP I have ever had (List includes Road Runner, Comcast, Adelphia, Hargray, HTC, and ATT). With them, I'm paying for 10/1 service, and actually get what I'm paying for plus some ( http://www.speedtest.net/result/271674776.png ). I've not had any problems with actually using my connection either. On average I download about 300GB of data a month, and I've never had any problems.

      Of course, I don't support this move, but at least they told everyone what they were doing, and give users an option to opt out if they please.
      • thugok, on 05/15/2008, -1/+6You seem to be in the only place left in the US where there is competition for internet access. It's not surprising that you get good service, they are well aware you have a half dozen other options to choose from.
        • 11oops, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2I live near Madison and I am almost certain that those ISPs he lists were from other markets he previously lived in. Madison has Charter, AT&T DSL, possibly TDS DSL, and possibly ChoiceOne DSL. There may be others, but for the most part it's just AT&T or Charter.
        • XtremeBug, on 05/16/2008, -0/+111oops is right, ATT is pretty much the only other option around here, so there's really not competition here (Of course, it's better than many places that only have one single ISP, be it DSL or Cable). The other ISPs I listed were from the various places I've lived in the past.

      • kevisazombie, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2I live in Wisconsin and used to work at Charter. They definitely have a monopoly on cable internet services in the metro Madison area all the other providers this guy listed have to be from different markets. Road Runner (time warner) only caters to the Milwaukee area in Wisconsin.
      • troGGers, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1It seems Madison is the only place where Charter is actually decent. Customer service sucks across the US, but the rated speed and what you actually get is pretty good here. I have friends in the STL area with Charter that totally blows. They'll go through 10 hour periods where they can be connected to AIM or Ventrilo...but can't surf a single web site.
      • DJPandemonium, on 05/17/2008, -0/+1It's pretty decent in Kennewick, WA, too.

        It's definitely not perfect. Customer service is all handled by the same call centers, so it sucks universally. But, I do get the speeds I'm promised, and very consistently. I've had a few hiccups, one that lasted a couple months where my modem would disconnect randomly whenever I played online FPS games. It took them over a month of me calling regularly to fix it, but eventually we had a scenario with two of their techs in my bedroom watching me play and monitoring my modem/signal, a few more techs at some cable box outside, another tech in their closest facility, and a couple more at headquarters - all monitoring my data stream and talking on radios, trying to figure out the problem. They did this twice, and finally fixed the problem. They traced the problem to a faulty hardware configuration, which they fixed and told me that I should also see improved ping times--which I did. It was a long hassle, but frankly I can't say they didn't try.
    • pettazz, on 05/15/2008, -1/+18I live in Western MA, and our only option is charter's *****. 5 years ago we signed up for 384k high speed from them, and now that their speeds are topping 2 megs around here, we're still stuck with ***** 384k service, and would be hit with a MASSIVE fee to upgrade. $40/month now, and almost $80/month if we want to get the same service new members are getting for $40/month.

      ***** Charter.
      • Monk22, on 05/15/2008, -0/+4whatever you can always talk them into some deal. and not to mention upgrade your service to the 10Mb for a bit then bump it down to like 3Mb. i did that but they never turned the speed down so i still get 10Mb on my "special package" cable tv and internet for like $40.
      • pettazz, on 05/16/2008, -0/+0I've tried, but I can never play the "we'll just switch to **** service" card since there aren't any other ISPs in east ***** nowhere (aka western MA).

        The best 'deal' they've given me on the phone was to just not have any internet at all. Dickbags.
      • DJPandemonium, on 05/17/2008, -0/+1They tried the same thing with me, so I called up to upgrade to the newer, faster, cheaper package. After getting the run-around and conflicting stories for over an hour I was fed up and told them I wanted to cancel the whole thing. I was furious. They transferred me to a "cancellation specialist" who very promptly gave me exactly what I wanted.

        I am now paying $15/month for 3meg internet, and another $15/month for their unlimited phone service--which works great, by the way. That price is good for another 10 months or so, at which point I'll probably call up and pretend I want to cancel it all until they give me a similar deal.
    • Rosco, on 05/15/2008, -0/+5Traverse City, MI, and if you want broadband you only have one choice, Charter. The only other option is dial-up. Some small areas within the city limits has AT&T DSL which is about 20-50% the speed of Charter's. And Charter's max speed is only 5MB download with 512Kb upload.
      • actionscripted, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1As a member of the TC area, I can vouch for this. Charter is the only option, and if they decide they want to spy on me there's no way I can -- as a web developer -- tell them to ***** off. I'm stuck with whatever they decide to hand me, and I suspect that this is the case for many of their "loyal" customers.
    • gameyharp, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3I'm in the same spot as you, except there is a DSL provider available where I live. I have been thinking of switching because off all the ***** from them (horrid customer service, net being down some times days on end, etc etc) and I think this is going to finally get me to commit.
    • ecg129, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3I live in MN and its the same *****. Charter is the most terrible provider I've ever dealt with. We have weeks where our internet just goes out for no given reason. They make comcast look like angels.
    • Pulch, on 05/15/2008, -4/+3My Charter is blazing fast and as reliable as anything I've had. I will agree that their customer service is the worst though...
      • johnomaz, on 05/15/2008, -1/+2Same here. I live in CA and my charter is very reliable. Only the last couple days have I had issues. First time in the 4 years I've used them. And its not just residential. The school district I work for uses charter and they are having the exact problem.

        I don't however like this new program they are planning. If they were to offer an incentive to have a piece of software installed on my machine that kept me anomymous and reduced my montly payment, I'd do it. But to keep paying the same amount knowing they are getting who knows how much money fromt his company, I say no.
    • Charlesbian, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2I live in Madison, WI as well. Charter is a mixed bag. Their TV is good, rarely goes down and loads of good movies on their free movie network (the constant messages are annoying though)

      Internet is a different story. Every year the internet seems to go down without fail around exam time. We had an outage for 3 days the week of exams, and the best they could do was to offer us a credit on our contract to extend it for 3 days (alot of good use it does us as being students we move every summer and thus aren't around to use the 3 days). The contractors are great though, they are polite, timely, will give you free services if u chat em up or give em a beer.

      Their speed is alrite, although itll drop connection 2-3 times a week. Its not our router either, it does it even when we hardwire directly to the modem.
    • WarBiscuit, on 05/15/2008, -0/+4Athens, GA here... their connection is wonderfully fast (when it's up), but their technicians are.. um... not sure how to say it nicely: incompetent. Had a break in my line where something chewed through it, took them 3 months to run through the "its your cable modem" "its your house wiring" "its just something in the neighboorhood" "we'll have someone in a month to rerun all the cabling".. till I finally went and checked in my yard myself.

      But then they came anyways, ran new cables, severed my phone line, nicked my water pipe.

      And now they call me monthly asking "wouldn't you like to switch your phone to our VoIP service".
      Disgusting.
      • MrWhite7, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3We call that grounds for a lawsuit.
    • Pulch, on 05/15/2008, -1/+1Who uses TVs anymore? Yeah my line does drop maybe once or twice a week, but for some reason as long as I have my speed, it doesn't seem to bother me. Yeah, when my tech came over, I could tell that the only thing he knew how to do on a computer is set up this specific modem. And when I first called customer service, I got some foreign lady who was rude, and whenever I've had to call tech support, I have to wait on the line for 30 min while I go through the automated fix system (which consists of things I've already tried myself to get it up and going). But they don't throttle!
    • sparsely, on 05/15/2008, -2/+4Had you read the article, you'd know you can opt out.
      • ileftfark, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2Until you clear your cookies, or access the web with something other than a web browser (like Xbox), or forget that the particular browser you're using doesn't have the "opt-out" cookie in its cache.

        Other than that, though, what the hell, ya know?
    • ventura7, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2Charter is absolutely the worst customer service I have ever experienced - calls are not monitored, and customer agents routinely cut you off (hang up) deliberately. I have just switched to AT&T, at least I had that option in my small town - Ventura California.
    • psyflyer, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1here in VT is charter or your *****. and their internet blows. run for the hills boy.
    • ElectroBot, on 05/16/2008, -0/+1In Russia, it would be: ***** them.

      In the US, its: They ***** you.
  • doshindude, on 05/15/2008, -2/+98screw that. way to lose all your users, charter. epic fail. right up there with creative.
    • xunil2, on 05/15/2008, -3/+6Correction:
      "way to lose your few tech-savvy users, but keep all ign'ant ones"
    • levirogers, on 05/15/2008, -4/+1"Epic Fail" agreed!
    • johnomaz, on 05/15/2008, -1/+2just wondering, what did Creative do?
      • Gratefuldead, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1wouldn't allow someone to modify there drivers
      • spvn, on 05/16/2008, -0/+1and make ***** up products that spoil easily to begin with...
    • demonbaby, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2It's a nice thought, but the United States' monopoly-driven broadband industry leaves people with only one choice for broadband access in many parts of the country. Which is why companies like this one and Comcast often feel like they can get away with anything.
    • Marglar, on 05/15/2008, -0/+0I bet they hardly lose any customers. Unfortunately, it's kind of like dealing with Comcast - its the only good solution to a lot of people, and no one wants to downgrade to ***** service over something slightly trivial.
    • MrNeom, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1My friend in St. Louis wants to change providers, but Charter is the only available cable service. The only competition is DSL through Sprint I think.
  • weatherbred, on 05/15/2008, -5/+0wowza.
  • meruru, on 05/15/2008, -13/+13Frankly I'm surprised they all aren't already doing this
  • radink360, on 05/15/2008, -33/+5As long as they don't give out the info, who cares.
    • geodescent, on 05/15/2008, -1/+13Wait till they start policing it
    • phoomp, on 05/15/2008, -1/+16Why do you think they're monitoring it?
    • noahhoward, on 05/15/2008, -1/+5Okay radink, what WILL they do with it then and why do they need it?
    • halleyscomet, on 05/15/2008, -1/+15Next time try reading the article. It makes it very clear that they are logging all that data for the explicit purpose of selling it to an ad agency. The whole POINT is to give out the info.
      • kemp34, on 05/15/2008, -1/+4Don't forget they will hand it over to the government at the drop of a hat.
  • BRadfromBelair, on 05/15/2008, -0/+33Well *****. I wish I had Fios I could switch to.
    • macfanboi, on 05/15/2008, -1/+2Do you think Verizon is any better.
  • jermainiusblack, on 05/15/2008, -6/+4I guess it was only a matter of time before this happened.
  • CannedCorn, on 05/15/2008, -2/+10wow, guess i have to stop hitting up redtube
    • levirogers, on 05/15/2008, -0/+9Screw that me and redtube are friends for life!!!
  • Kyrgizion, on 05/15/2008, -1/+31The MOMENT I get an e-mail like this from my ISP, I'll be getting rid of them. And I only pay 5€/month for a 20mbit pipe because of employee benefits, so that's saying something.
    • xptoast, on 05/15/2008, -0/+7Privacy is priceless. For to set a price for your privacy is similar to setting a price for your soul. Screw that crap.
  • mikephimikephi, on 05/15/2008, -0/+68meh,
    the informed customers will leave because they despise big brother
    the uninformed customers will leave because the company spends all their revenue on spying and storage
    rather than upgrading the network and service to keep up with the competition.

    ...besides, wouldn't it be cheaper to buy the information back from the NSA? No sense in storing everything twice.
    • djetaine, on 05/15/2008, -0/+0I think you have it backwards. Charter is getting PAID to do this. It's not costing them anything. Couple dollars a subscriber a month profit is quite a lot.
    • BedPost, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Good logic. Small problem - in many areas, they are the sole ISP.
  • xDynaBlade, on 05/15/2008, -10/+61RIP net neutrality?
    • mudpuddle, on 05/15/2008, -1/+9That doesn't make any sense
      • ileftfark, on 05/15/2008, -0/+4But look at all the knee-jerk reactions it got!
        • xDynaBlade, on 05/20/2008, -0/+1Heh. That's why I said it.

          /psychology experiment
      • jerrycurley, on 05/15/2008, -1/+1Again...please learn what net neutrality if all about. Any time some idiot like you whines about needing net neutrality to fix any and every problem that they don't like online, you just prove that you have no ide awhat net neutrality is.

        If net neutrality passed tomorrow, and was enforced to the fullest, most strict extend of its wording, it would do NOTHING to prevent this.
    • austinshea, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1I LOVE BUZZWORDS!
  • chrisinsocalif, on 05/15/2008, -2/+11Maybe its a reason for the people tracking the users to look at porn without making their wives mad. ..

    "....but honey, I am doing my job tracking users who look at donkey porn!"
  • ColorBlind, on 05/15/2008, -3/+18Like this didn't happen already....don't kid yourself.
    • TimDigg, on 05/15/2008, -0/+5eh he's right ^....I'm still mad though lol
  • geniuslocimusic, on 05/15/2008, -0/+132And why shouldn't the phone company be allowed to listen to your calls so that it can "help you" decide what kinds of friends you like to talk to...

    And why shouldn't your car manufacturer track where you drive so that they can "help you" by designing cars that can go there...

    The real problem? The government by law can't compile info on its citizens outside of criminal investigations. BUT, it can subpoena private companies for existing records with little effort thanks to things like the Patriot Act.

    "The times they are a changin'"
    • awtripp, on 05/15/2008, -0/+8the only problem is, most people never heard that song, so when they fell, they fell hard.
    • airjrdn, on 05/15/2008, -0/+11That's not quite accurate. They can compile "intelligence" information on you without there being any type of investigation. The part that's even more scary is, intelligence information doesn't have to be factual. You can be entered into a database based on their suspicion.
      • geniuslocimusic, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3Ahh OK, I know that there is some legal gray area but I was basing this on a documentary I saw on the government using companies like Choicepoint to essentially compile data so that their hands could be "clean" while still having unfettered access via subpoenas. After all, I guess they can do whatever they want as long as enough people don't care
    • roodammy44, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Times they are a changing, that's what bob dylan said
      You put your clothes back on and take your sisters off instead
    • moulin1, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1And information provided volunatarily by companies spying on their customers is exempt from the freedom of information act.
  • theholyraptor, on 05/15/2008, -1/+9why does everyone act as if ISPs aren't already doing this? Additionally, the government does it on top of the ISP. Since a lot of ISPs by their service from higher tier ISPs, you might have multiple companies staring at your data. I'm not getting all tinfoil hat, cause it's not stopping me from using the internet, just saying I arrange my drug deals and global takeovers offline. wait brb there's someone at the door.......
  • DteK, on 05/15/2008, -2/+16these clowns are worse than comcast.
  • tgscoder, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3their competitors should off offer a deal to take Charter Comm customers. it is unethical to put people under a microscope for financial gain. Charter only cares about profits and not the privacy of it customers. SO COMPETITORS TAKE THEIR BUSINESS AWAY, AND CRUSH THEIR COMPANY LIKE A FLY. then from the lose they will realize the error in their ways.
    • senatorpjt, on 05/15/2008, -0/+4What competitors? Often their only competitor is dialup service.
    • Kontra8, on 05/16/2008, -0/+1Should off? Now that was creative.
  • Jogga, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1This is just retarded.
    What reason(or should I say motive), do they have for this kind of surveillance of their honest paying customers?
    • gimpusmons, on 05/15/2008, -2/+1If you read to the end of the article it basically says they want more money. A business with the goal of making more money? Sounds fishy to me.
  • Abbeygargoyle, on 05/15/2008, -6/+24In Soviet Russia, you no read internet, Internet reads You!!!!!! In Soviet America, more the same.
    • halleyscomet, on 05/15/2008, -1/+27It's not Soviet America, it's Fascist America.

      In Soviet Russia the government takes over all the corporations and runs them into the ground.
      in Fascist America, the corporations take over the government and run it into the ground.
      • moulin1, on 05/15/2008, -0/+7I'm saving that quote.
      • xptoast, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2Agreed. I saved the quote as well. Mind me putting that on a shirt to wear around and sell to other conscious people?
  • gnimsh, on 05/15/2008, -1/+3If they're gonna be making all kinds of revenue off this, they better be able to offer MUCH higher speeds. More than likely speeds will the same, as will costs, and the big cats at Charter will just get fatter.
    • BSeffrood, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1No no no, you're wrong prices won't stay the same... they'll rise
  • jimmyjohnston, on 05/15/2008, -0/+10Sounds like a great idea! Let me continue to pay too much for my Internet access and you get to make money off of how much I use my Internet access and I get to have extra special advertisements now (extra special advertisements will be ignored equally as much as regular advertisements).
    • darknailblue, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1What you're saying makes complete sense jimmy. However Charter isn't targeting power users/advanced users like us. The people that will be effected by this move are the people that are confused by logging into their e-mail and who have never heard of, much less care about sites like digg.com. I - like you - will be avoiding these ads - then again that's what my trusty kaspersky already does for me =)
  • NeoNightmareX, on 05/15/2008, -0/+14"For those customers who disagree, Mr. Schremp said that Charter is offering the ability for them to choose not to be part of the system." - FTA
    I know who I'm going to call when I get home.
    • Mie42, on 05/15/2008, -0/+8It's an opt-out cookie that you have to keep stored on your system. You need to opt-out again every time you clear your cookies.
  • Zemnexx, on 05/15/2008, -9/+2***** THE RIAA, I didn't see it in the comments yet so I decided to contribute, lol.
    • tandy400, on 05/15/2008, -0/+4You didn't see it because it's not relelvent.
      • RufusMcCoot, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Tandy, that was the absolute correct response.
      • Zemnexx, on 05/17/2008, -0/+0Since when has it needed to be relevant to be in the comments, srsly.
  • novask, on 05/15/2008, -11/+6www.goatse.cx
  • Stalks, on 05/15/2008, -1/+9I guess the need for VPN services is going to be on the rise.
    • halleyscomet, on 05/15/2008, -0/+4Personally, I'm going to write a bot that will emulate web traffic, so the REAL Internet activity is lost in a series of requests for other sites.

      I'll even let them select the pool of sites they want to draw from.

      Want to look like an uber conservative patriot? Then you can inject fake traffic to Republican sites.

      Other categories to include:
      American Food Sites
      Snooty Food Sites
      Ethnic Food Sites (With subcategories for the kind of cuisine)
      Privacy watch sites

      Better yet, what about an application that replaces the ads with things you WANT to see?

      Don't want to see ads for Viagra based on your husband spending three weeks researching penis enlargement pills? This service will replace them with pictures of fluffy bunnies. (Or cars, or something else based largely on stock photography)
      • ErikHarrison, on 05/15/2008, -0/+5that's too much work. I'll just VPN through work....
    • Mysk, on 05/15/2008, -1/+1Yeah, I always advocate getting a VPN when stories such as this appear. Some folks don't trust the VPN or they argue that the government or lawyers could still get the records, but it's not always about that. It's about doing something other than nothing about your privacy and what's being done.

      At the very least, a VPN will prevent your ISP from snooping on your every behavior. The only real question is, how much longer until ISPs refuse to allow 'customers' to use a VPN or similar service?

      I also suggest getting some sort of encryption for your IMs.
  • unluckier, on 05/15/2008, -0/+31You really should assume that your ISP is *already* doing this.
  • quomen, on 05/15/2008, -3/+28Support net neutrality.
    • MrWhite7, on 05/15/2008, -1/+3I'd prefer to be regulated by something I can sue, thanks.
    • quomen, on 05/16/2008, -1/+1I'm not in favor of regulation either, but Net Neutrality is less of a regulation than it is a protection of the freedoms that have made the internet what it is today.
  • Jem7vwh, on 05/15/2008, -0/+12So they are going to show me warez and sex adds LOL
  • nusuni, on 05/15/2008, -7/+21I have a feeling hardly anyone here read the damn article. They do have an opt-out for it: https://connect.charter.com/cas/portal/settings/pr ...
    • sweatyyeti, on 05/15/2008, -0/+8But you have to refill out the form every time you clear cookies or use a different browser.
    • merreborn, on 05/15/2008, -0/+6Something like this should be opt-in, if it exists at all.
  • tandy400, on 05/15/2008, -2/+5Google already does this (on a smaller scale) by showing sponsored links pertinent to your search results, right?
    • DeFex, on 05/15/2008, -0/+5no, google does it on googles pages. not forcing it on other peoples pages.
    • moulin1, on 05/15/2008, -0/+5There is a fine but very important difference. Google as a 3rd party has no idea who you are. Only a court order can translate an IP address into a real person. Your own ISP knows exactly who you are and they must save that information to target you as you move from page to page. Googles information is anonymous, Charter, as the title implies, monitors web surfing by individual customers.
    • cr4wl3r, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Not sure how that affects you; but i do know Google DOES keep records of every product of theirs you use (this includes web history and gmail). But again what records their keeping I'm not too sure on; it could just be usage and registration data for all i know.
  • pettazz, on 05/15/2008, -1/+1What happens to people like me who host ads on their websites?

    Does Charter just stick it's own ads over mine?

    Anyone else think that's going to piss off a LOT of people?
    • DeFex, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2I would think that they will be sued pretty quick. what if you were a tv cable company (tv service provider) and started changing the advertisements on all the channels people were watching depending on what programs they prefer. This is basically what they as an ISP are doing.
      • LocalH, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1There already is commercial insertion, but it's done with the cooperation of the networks.
      • pettazz, on 05/16/2008, -0/+0Exactly, and I don't intend on cooperating with Charter to have the only way my site makes any money replaced with their method of selling their customers out.
  • maxpower17@digg, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2I just read it and did the opt out
    • Skizzlizzit, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Thanks for pointing that out! I just opted out too.
  • mdcarso, on 05/15/2008, -0/+4Does a routing system like TOR prevent this type of surveillance?
    • ApokalypseNow, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2Due to the encryption involved, I'd guess that's a yes.
  • pcronin, on 05/15/2008, -1/+7TOR ( www.torproject.org ) FTW
    • Mysk, on 05/15/2008, -0/+5TOR is a super slow service that runs at the speed of a dialup connection on its best of days. Get a VPN and encrypt EVERYTHING coming from your computer, not just HTTP traffic, and get it at nearly your normal speed.
    • gh0st32, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2the TOR is not setup for that, it should be used to get information out of counties such as China, Burma, Egypt etc that block freedom of the press.
  • Mie42, on 05/15/2008, -0/+22I flipped when I got this letter. I have several problems with this. I whole heartily agree it should be an opt-in system with and incentive to do so. My bill is ~$50 a month for 4Mb service and it just recently went up. In order to opt-out you must store a cookie on your system. So, every time you clear your cookies you have to go opt-out again. I clear history/cookies every time I close my browser! So, guess what one of my home pages is. It's bad enough my browsing activity is tracked at work. My ISP has no business gathering and selling that information on my home systems. I HATE Charter Communistications. I wish I had fios or any other comparable alternative in my area.
    • unusualbob, on 05/15/2008, -0/+4try to manually set the cookie to read only. that way it wont get wiped like the others.
      • Mie42, on 05/16/2008, -0/+1I though of that but I haven't been able to pinpoint exactly which cookie it is at this point. Not that I've tried very hard. You get a few just from opening the opt-out page.
  • DeFex, on 05/15/2008, -2/+2The chipset looks in the packets and decides what to do depending on what is in the data. the data is not saved or logged or sent to anyone.
    Thats not to say they couldn't do it quite easily if they wanted to.
    • moulin1, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1I think you read a different article.
  • Beestie, on 05/15/2008, -6/+4In other news, death, taxes.
    • ErikHarrison, on 05/15/2008, -1/+2that's it? Digg is for all stories, and personally I am sick and tired of reading about death, taxes, and gas. Don't like it don't look.
    • merreborn, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3Never accept surveillance as inevitable. When surveillance is the status quo, we all lose.
  • Winston84, on 05/15/2008, -3/+6I'm surprised that the neo-cons havent made it a requirement yet, you know "The War on Terror" blabla .
    In little free-speech loving Denmark all ISP's are required to log your activities and save the logs for a year,
    all so they can catch Obama ... ehrm sorry, I mean Osama .. He's browsing the internets from his grave I guess ..
    • ErikHarrison, on 05/15/2008, -1/+1You're an idiot. How played out is the Osama/bama *****? If it matters to you so much then vote and stfu. Net Neutrality or we're *****.
    • GreatSunJester, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3In one post you accuse the "neo-con" boogey-men of considering this a requirement, while also saying the (very!) liberal country of Denmark already does it.
      So which is it? A tool of the neo-cons or of the liberals?
  • Merekondigg, on 05/15/2008, -0/+18This is nothing short of vile. They actually provide my net connection, though I'm not in one of the first "test markets", so it looks like it doesn't apply to me yet. Yes, this is probably fairly automated and may even be somewhat anonymous. It's still horrifically rude and invasive.

    1. Where exactly are they going to put these wonder ads? Pre-emp ads on other sites? That's incredibly underhanded. Force me to view them overlaid onto the pages? No thanks. I didn't pay $50 a month to get the "free internet" treatment.

    2. Targeted ads are a really, really bad idea on a large scale. Why? Because if you share your connection with others (family, dorm mates, etc), they'll start to see what you're interested in just by what starts to be advertised. Porn is one particularly colorful example ("Dude, why are there so many ads for midgets doing Asian chicks?") but there are lesser ways this could ***** things up too. Imagine going on a net shopping search for your wife's surprise birthday present, only to have the ads give away what you were up to.

    3. Anything like this should be opt-in. If it's so wonderful and harmless, let's see you convince people to volunteer for it. Charter's eagerness to ram this down their customer's throats only heightens the feeling that it's underhanded and nasty.
    • xunil2, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2Yeah, I'm not sure how they're going to foist ads upon me. I have Charter high-speed, but I don't use their customized browsers. I never even installed the software they provided when the service was provisioned. I think the ads will only show up for those not savvy enough to avoid the deranged version of the browser and/or opt out. On the other hand, if you don't opt out you'll be tracked one way or another.

      but really, did anyone think this wasn't be tracked already? Am I just that paranoid that I assumed it was being recorded somewhere at some level all the time?
  • xodex, on 05/15/2008, -2/+36***** IT! We'll do it Live!
  • 4JustMy2Cents, on 05/15/2008, -7/+0My first post here ..
    check out http://www.mysecureisp.com/
    or http://www.mysecureisp.com/signup.html

    G.
  • GreatSunJester, on 05/15/2008, -0/+6Would TOR be a good thing in this case? All they could (should be able to?) see is the first router you hit. I can easily be wrong though.
    • merreborn, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Yes. If you use TOR all your traffic is encrypted long before it hits your cable modem.
    • hayzeus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Tor's probably overkill. If you have access to a poxy you could just go through the proxy for everything -- you can even use SSL. I 've had to do this (thru a proxy I own, though -- so it's pretty fast) to get around another issue.
  • rizla420, on 05/15/2008, -1/+4This is very disconcerting to hear, but I've suspected its been happening for awhile now especially after the scandal with at&t letting the NSA tap their lines. its just that now they're starting to tap the nodes closer to where the customers are and arent using the gov't equipment to do so.

    I think we should all get used to this because it will be the shape of things to come for all major ISP. Like someone eluded to earlier I think if a new aleternative would arise people would leave to go to that en mass. What i'm thinking of is municipal wimax. I'm' hoping we can eventually redevelop our infrastructure from a ground up approach so that the customers are not hand tied by telecom monopolies. All the while the FCC twiddles its thumbs...

    I believe in the ingenuity of people to find alternative ways around this. Maybe a new alternative to TOR will come that will be more feasible.
  • Haapi, on 05/15/2008, -0/+5Oh, so now Charter, an ISP, admits it can know what my traffic is, and admits it can take various actions on it. Is there a hedge fund based on income from suing ISPs who abandon "Common Carrier" status?
    I want in.
  • SoapsCum, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2I'm not sure what I'm looking for, but is there a plugin or ware that won't show ads in Safari or FF?

    As far as Charter and the above issue, the opt out option is complete BS and I have no choice in my neck of the woods, but to be stuck with Charter. Won't Private Browsing in Safari help? And also dumping any unwanted plugins? I'm sure I could make up a script for this.

    I guess I'll have to keep using my neighbors connection for my suspicious activities and leave him holding the bag. He's an a$$hole anyway for having his dog wake up the baby every night just as I'm dozing off.

    Seriously, is there anything that I could use to block any advertising.

    Thx
    • rizla420, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1You could use DPI on them as well. I guarantee a tool will come out that will be able to strip that data at the packet level before it bubbles up to the application layer.
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